South Africa in Australia, 2012-13

Watson return clouds Warner's future

Daniel Brettig

November 16, 2012

Comments: 107 | Text size: A | A

Mitchell Starc runs in to bowl, New South Wales v Victoria, Sheffield Shield, day three, Sydney, November 15, 2012
Mitchell Starc is a strong chance to be called into the Australian XI for the Adelaide Test © Getty Images

Shane Watson's return to the Australian Test squad for Adelaide has ramped up pressure on David Warner to hold his spot at the top of the order, as the national selectors consider the possibility of pairing Rob Quiney with Ed Cowan.

While Watson is still considered unlikely to return in time for the second Test against South Africa, it is far from certain that Quiney will be the man to drop out of the hosts' XI to make room for the vice-captain and No. 3 batsman. Warner's place in the team may hinge in his display in Adelaide, and another brief stay with the bat would be likely to have Quiney walking out to bat with Cowan in Perth.

The national selector John Inverarity was unable to guarantee Warner's place ahead of the Adelaide Test, in marked contrast to his supportive words for Cowan before the Brisbane Test squad was even announced. "We'll make the decision closer to the time," Inverarity said. "I mean we're here at the WACA. Less than 12 months ago David played a wonderful innings here. We'll just have to wait and see."

Australia Test squad

  • Michael Clarke (capt), Shane Watson, Ed Cowan, Ben Hilfenhaus, Michael Hussey, Nathan Lyon, James Pattinson, Ricky Ponting, Rob Quiney, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner

Quiney made only nine in his one innings in Brisbane, but impressed the selectors with his gully fielding, part-time medium pace and an unruffled, mature demeanour that fitted neatly into the Australian dressing room. His upright, powerful batting would make a neat balance with the more obdurate Cowan, while offering a little more restraint than Warner.

Watson's preferred place in the team remains as an allrounder. Inverarity explained that if Watson was not fit to bowl, he would more than likely also not be fit to run swiftly between the wickets or show the required level of agility in the field. This, as much as the team's desire to have him bowling, will influence the selectors in their deliberations, which will likely reach a decision by Wednesday.

"Yes he could [play as a batsman]," Inverarity said. "He'll have to be fit to perform regarding running between the wickets, chasing in the field, diving. It's unlikely - I'm not saying it's not possible - but it's unlikely that he'll be able to build his workloads so that he'll be able to bowl in the Test.

"If you've got the continuum there, there's only a small margin in which he's fit to perform as a batsman but not able to bowl. We're hoping he'll be beyond that, he'll be able to bowl. But he may not be able to. And if he's not able to, there's a fair chance he won't be able to be fit to perform in terms of running between the wickets, chasing in the field, diving in the field. We'll just wait and see."

Mitchell Starc's chances of earning a place in the team for Adelaide have been enhanced by a four-wicket haul for New South Wales against Victoria at the SCG. Ben Hilfenhaus, the man considered most likely to make way for Starc, is working closely with the bowling coach Ali de Winter to try to eradicate the flaws picked up in his bowling action during the Gaba Test.

"I thought the bowlers bowled much better the second day they bowled, and then on the final day I thought they all improved again," Inverarity said. "So they're running into some form and you need to get some bowling under your belt and I thought in particular Ben Hilfenhaus got better as the game went on, so we'll just have to assess how they go and what sort of shape they're in and make a decision a couple of days before the Test."

Inverarity indicated that whichever bowler was 12th man in Adelaide would then be a probable inclusion for the third Test in Perth, given that only three days separate the end of the second match with the start of the final one. Australia played four quicks and omitted the spinner Nathan Lyon for the Perth match against India last summer, and that possibility will depend on the preparation of the surface.

"I think it's very difficult to go Brisbane, Adelaide and then a break of just a couple of days and then to Perth for the same bowlers to do all of that," Inverarity said. "It's not unlikely that a different bowler will come in for that Test and you would recall that last time in Perth we played four fast bowlers and we'll just have to wait and see what the wicket is like. The decision last year I think was the right decision and we'll have to wait and see what happens this year."

Daniel Brettig is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo. He tweets here

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© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

Posted by funkybluesman on (November 19, 2012, 2:24 GMT)

So they are saying Warner, who is averaging over 40 in 9 tests of opening the batting, including a pair of centuries, and over 50 in first class cricket, is possibly in danger of getting dropped for Quiney, who at the age of 30, having been around for years, still only averages 37 in first class cricket?

Anyone else think this is completely crazy?

Posted by Meety on (November 18, 2012, 23:28 GMT)

@Jono Makim - I am now of the opinion that it is Watto that should be "DROPPED" as he has atm ONE innings in his last 5 weeks! IMO - that is starting to push the boundaries of being ready. Even though I think Watto's bowling could be crucial in the last 2 days on an Adelaide Oval pitch, I am more inclined to want the top 7 that started at the Gabba.

Posted by Sunil_Batra on (November 18, 2012, 11:00 GMT)

Well said Ross_fleming, on the mark mate. The experts are noticing how good Khawaja looks between wickets and his fielding and that's all he can do.

Posted by   on (November 18, 2012, 9:35 GMT)

@Meety, I could not agree more! I find it quite unfortunate that he is so underdone, but i'm pretty sure that like Clarke and Cowan in the last test, that if he can get a start he'll most likely go big. His dismissal did not look too great in the first test, getting trapped on the crease, but I think he's a fast learner and that he'll be looking a little more decisive with his footwork in Adelaide.

Posted by ygkd on (November 17, 2012, 23:37 GMT)

Warner at number 6 sounds interesting enough. However, in my view, there are generally two types of openers - those who have the technique for it (at their level) and those who want to bat there because they can't play slow bowling. To be one of the second group is to be unsuited to down-the-order slots. That's one of the reasons why Clarke is successful at number 5. He is one of the better players of spin around.

Posted by Meety on (November 17, 2012, 23:04 GMT)

@Jono Makim - top comment. Probably the best one on Warner on this thread. Thing is Warner has done a lot in his short Test career - even wicket taking, his Test average (like Cowan's) is affected from playing in the WIndies which over the last 15 years has become the hardest place to score runs in the world, on account of the variability of bounce as well as sluggish nature of the pitches. Warner, unlike Cowan or Quinney has had bugger all chance to bat agains a red ball & is currently under done, like Hilfy & Starc were/are. Whilst I would prefer Warner keep his opinions on the Saffa batting to himself for the time being, I think everyone jumping on the bandwagon to drop him - particularly with a bloke who scored 9, is pretty ordinary. One big innings by Warner (say of the size the "hack" Cowan got), could see his average increase (like Cowan's) by 8, putting back up near 50 - & we want to sack him?

Posted by hhillbumper on (November 17, 2012, 15:23 GMT)

Phi Hughes and Warner for the will be 2 down for 10 each innings. The only decent Aus batsman is Clarke. Hussey is knocking on and lets face it by next year half the team will have retired.

Posted by   on (November 17, 2012, 15:02 GMT)

I'll still use him because we don't have anyone near as talented as him. As long as he can perform regularly then I see no reason why he should be dropped.

Posted by   on (November 17, 2012, 12:50 GMT)

Two things about Dave Warner. Firstly, he has scored 5 centuries from 36 first class innings. That is a rate comparable to anyone and very consistent, he also averages 48, better than any of the other young contenders. Second point, he played one of the best knocks of any Aussie batsman last season with his ton in Hobart, he was just let down by the rest of the team..... Quiney has 7 centuries from 91 innings. Doolan 5/62. Cowan 16/140. Khawaja 11/101. Phil Hughes with 19/156 is really the only other young player we've got with what i'd accept as a reasonable rate of centuries from innings played, which should be no worse than 1 in 8, in my opinion. Everyone else should not consider their application as being ready until they can achieve this rate or better. Joe Burns with 4 centuries from 37 innings is possibly a more likely candidate than some others being talked about. He just needs to keep it up for a little while longer yet to establish a solid base of performance.

Posted by MattyLeeC on (November 17, 2012, 12:43 GMT)

Im just going to throw it out there but why does Warner have to open the batting? Why not bring him in at 6? I know he made 180 vs the Indians which was a great watch (though that was one against one of the poorest bowling attacks India have put out for a while) and also a great knock against NZ. He has the ability to dominate any attack when he gets going but he doesnt have the game to be patient and leave enough alone and set himself against quality new ball attacks like SA or England. He doesnt have that mix of attack and also patience that the likes of Hayden had. For me a perfect number 6 that could really destroy a team if he came in at 4/250 or so.

Posted by KhanMitch on (November 17, 2012, 11:28 GMT)

@chad_reid the reasons used against Khawaja were running between the wickets and fielding both of which have been very good this year as publicly stated by Border and Waugh in the Ryobi games, watch a few games yourself and you will see it, based on that and his leading shield form he can't be too far from a call up

Posted by ygkd on (November 17, 2012, 9:26 GMT)

I can't believe that Warner's place is on the line. His inclusion in the test team has been just the tonic for my state of health. So many times it has got me off the sofa, switching off the telly and doing something else. I can only imagine what sort of a couch potato I would have been if, say, someone watchable like Chris Rogers had played all those test matches instead.

Posted by VivGilchrist on (November 17, 2012, 9:19 GMT)

Warner scored 2 contrasting centuries last summer which show his value to the team. In the first he carried his bat on a pitch that no one else could score on. In the second he blew India away in a session. Please, show some loyalty. Lets remember that Quiney scored NINE in his one and only innings.

Posted by Marcio on (November 17, 2012, 8:50 GMT)

Looking forward to Warner's next big score, which is not far away. He's a winner on Australian pitches, as his 4 international centuries last year showed clearly. The sheer, mindboggling inability to remember what happened beyond the previous game - or indeed anything which didn't happen in the last 5 minutes - is what defines 90% of posts around here.

Posted by   on (November 17, 2012, 8:49 GMT)

Ponting has little pressure. He was leading the runs scoring in sheffield shield prior to the series. i.e. he's the best performing 4 day batsman in the country. Warner, cowan, are where the pressure lies.

Posted by Meety on (November 17, 2012, 3:26 GMT)

I would be very surprised (totally gobsmacked actually) if for the Adelaide Test, Warner gets shunted for Quinney. All the potential & improvement in the world from Quinney means zip, he has no credits with the selectors & would need a big innings at Adelaide (if he even plays), & Warner would need to fail. Given Warner's Test career is only marginally longer than Cowan's & given Cowan's ave went from 29 to 37, in ONE innings, I would say that Warner is only one big innings away from cementing his position. @ Chris_P on (November 16 2012, 17:32 PM GMT) - would you have Cowan opening in India?

Posted by JobeWatson on (November 17, 2012, 3:18 GMT)

Watson and Quiney open, Cowan at 3. So that makes the team:

Watson Quiney Cowan Ponting Clarke M.Hussey Wade Pattinson Siddle Starc Lyon

Posted by chad_reid on (November 17, 2012, 2:57 GMT)

i think its quite clear why khawaja wasn't given more chances than the rest and still isn't given a look at despite being the highest run scorer and best batsman in Sheffield Shield but i rather not mention it but i think most of us know what it is but i do hope he gets a chance and makes his place permanent coz we know if he misfires once they will dump him again

Posted by Big_Maxy_Walker on (November 17, 2012, 1:54 GMT)

you cant take an unreliable opener like warner into the ashes. it just wont work. you need consistency and reliability at the top of the order. neither of which warner can give you he may win u a match on occasion but 9/10 hes a cheap wicket.

Posted by Edwards_Anderson on (November 17, 2012, 1:15 GMT)

For me Hughes, Khawaja and Doolan are the best 3 batsman. @Hyclass your continual critisms of Hughes and Khawaja are getting stale. How about you give credit where its due. Sure Hughes has got out in slips this year but he is scoring. And Khawaja despite your critisms is the best shield batsman this year. Hughes would be the ideal opener and Khawaja number 3.

Posted by KhanMitch on (November 17, 2012, 1:13 GMT)

@wix99 agree with you bud, Khawaja and Hughes have been scoring heavily especially Khawaja who is number 1 on the shield batting rankings. He has 3 man of the match performances from his last 3 games and scored when all other batsman around him failed. @Hyclass i remember you saying that Khawaja would fail at the start of the season but not only is he leading the shield scoring, he is scoring against some quality bowling attacks in NSW and Tasmania. In the last game he got 140 odd whe Tasmania couldn't even get to 100. Its a shame that people like Hyclass continue to attack Khawaja even when he is scoring.

Posted by Sunil_Batra on (November 17, 2012, 1:08 GMT)

Khawaja must be bought in, he is the leading shield batsman this year with 430 runs, the next best batsman is Doolan with 370 runs, both deserve their chances. @Hyclass give Khawaja some credit, he got 138 on a green deck where Tasmania got 95 as a team and that included Bailey, Cosgrove and Doolan. The game before he top scored in both innings in another man of the match performances against a star NSW attack. Early in the season you said Khawaja only scores against South Australia, how about you comment on that.

Posted by manoorhande on (November 17, 2012, 0:42 GMT)

It is so ironic that people especially ESPN journalists/columnists one day call him a hero and publicly announce that he belongs to test cricket (look at the link below and comments) and then the other day he may not be selected for the final eleven...

It appears that your analysis has short half-life and it is easy to fool many people!!!


Posted by skkh on (November 17, 2012, 0:21 GMT)

It is a fair call. I do not think Warner warrants a place in the test team. He looks suspect against quality fast bowling and is hopeless against spin. He has had an extended run with less than moderate success. Give Quiney an extended run and keep the door for Khawaja open. Let no one take his place in the team for granted. It is time Inverarity took such tough steps to ensure our exit from mediocrity.

Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (November 17, 2012, 0:06 GMT)

Best XI: Warner, Watson, Ponting, David Hussey, Clarke, Michael Hussey, Wade, James Pattinson, Mitchell Starc, Clint McKay, Doug Bollinger. It is not hard to pick this side! If Watson is out injured, bring in perhaps Glenn Maxwell - not a pure batsman, as we miss his bowling. If we hate Bollinger, play Mitchell Johnson instead. If we hate McKay, why not try Alistair McDermott? If David Hussey is seen to be too old, try George Bailey. This isn't rocket science. Even though Cowan made a century in the last test, he still isn't good enough to be in the test team, not even close - and don't forget how many times he should have been out on the way to that century.

Posted by wix99 on (November 16, 2012, 23:54 GMT)

Both Phil Hughes and Usman Khawaja have been making runs in domestic cricket. It is only a matter of time before one or both of them is recalled to the Test team. Good luck to Rob Quiney but I don't think he is going to be a long term member of the Test team.

Posted by swervin on (November 16, 2012, 23:20 GMT)

have some patience folks - there's no doubt warner is a great player and an exciting player and good for the team - ok he is a bit inconsistent but many of australia's greatest players have tough, up and down starts to their test careers - ie hayden, boonie...he's probably more talented than those guys and can make the big scores on his day...just needs to be handled carefully and bit more support from some of the other guys...but most importantly there are not better options - the same reason ponting is still playing...quiney might be ok but the fact he is picked does reflect a lack of depth...i just personally think australia will be rewarded if they stick by clearly talented guys like warner...ultimately this is still a rebuilding period for the team, which is not as strong as the test results against india and this last test against south africa indicate...

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 22:48 GMT)

Phillip Hughes got a million chances, Shane Marsh was kept in the side to the point it became funny, I dont understand what did poor Usie do to be axed. He deserved to be in that side once again and he is far better batsman than some in the team at the moment. If Warner is dropped, it will be a big loss to team. he is kind a player that can change a test match in one session. Dont we remember what he did to India in perth last year??

Posted by Shaggy076 on (November 16, 2012, 22:19 GMT)

Warner can be a match winner against attacks like India, New Zealand however we are currently playing South Africa and to follow that up with England on English decks and I dont believe Warner has the tools to deal with there attacks. Quiney has been consistent at shield level for a couple of years and batted well against South Africa in the Prime Ministers XI game. I see at some point in the near future we will have to replace Warner and Quiney is a good option. As for Khawaja and Hughes they have been given a crack and need to keep churning out shield runs and wait for the next opening. Everyone calling for there selection should look at the Haydens, Langer, Lehmann, Law, Love and many others who kept churning out 1000 shield runs for many seasons before getting picked.

Posted by dunger.bob on (November 16, 2012, 22:17 GMT)

From what I've seen so far, Warner is poor against spin and suspect when the fast bowlers get the ball to leave him (whether thats via swing or seam doesn't seem to matter, he follows em all). On the other hand, he can score run a ball centuries on his day. Glad I'm not a selector, I have no idea what you're supposed to do with Warner. It's like tossing a grenade with a faulty fuse into the game. ... I don't think I will ever be convinced about Dave as an opener until I see him grind out a long innings at a more conventional pace. I like batsman that can shift up and down the gears as the state of the game changes. You need look no further than Mike Hussey for an example of that. ... as far as Watto is concerned, if he's not playing as an allrounder, he shouldn't be playing. Is he really one of the top six batsmen in Aus ? Not quite, I would say.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 21:46 GMT)

Whilst I respect Warner's ability in the short game, I think it is unfortunate that he has been picked as a test player. His technique and temperament are not up to the standard required to wear the baggy green. Perhaps these elements could have been improved given time but he was thrown in the deep end prior to being ready - to his and his team's cost.

If I was picking the side, I would have retained Watson and paired him with Cowan. There are many options for number three but I have always believed that the best batsmen should be playing there - Clarke for mine. Quiney and Warner aren't in the XI.

Posted by cmonaussie on (November 16, 2012, 20:52 GMT)

Can Cowan change a couple of things to perhaps appear more like a batsman? Not put his bat up in the air when there's a no run, not hold his bat in the middle when celebrating? I'm just used to graceful Australian batsman of the past e.g Waugh brothers and I think some small tweaks would help Cowan

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 19:23 GMT)

Australian selectors have lost it. Warner deserves a fair run; and if they are still keen to replace him, at least they should have a better obsession than Quiney. Unfortunately gone are the days when they had rich reserve strength: Darren Lehmann, Mike Hussey, Greg Blewett, Michael Bevan, Stuart Law, Matthew Hayden etc.

Posted by Batmanian on (November 16, 2012, 18:36 GMT)

anilkp, I think by the time an Indian player gets a reasonably secure spot in the national team, so much energy has been invested in the politics behind the scenes, everyone is too exhausted to start the process again!

Agree Inver is quite good at putting achievement in context. Agree with hyclass that Khawaja's case is pushed in a way that is implausible to people who know cricket. Anyway, pushing for results in Shield games can make them quite scrappy affairs, so very difficult to project Test readiness from Shield averages and high scores... a fourth day forty often means more than a 150+ in a match reduced that is thereby reduced to a first innings points affair.

Posted by warneneverchuck on (November 16, 2012, 18:11 GMT)

Inclusion of players like Warner shows serious lack of talent in AUS test squad

Posted by Chris_P on (November 16, 2012, 17:32 GMT)

I think Khawaja is very close to being recalled. As far as Warber is concerned, he should be looked at a "horses for courses" player. His performances on bouncing pitches are worth keeping him. Come on, wouldn't you rather have him playing for you than against you? What he isn't is consistent, but on his day, devastating, & worth keeping, certainly for home tests.

Posted by Chris_P on (November 16, 2012, 17:29 GMT)

@shamlaatu Have you? What about looking at the Hobart test last summer where they both played to get an understanding. And btw, take a quick look at the Perth test, that should help you understand a little better.

Posted by Batmanian on (November 16, 2012, 17:05 GMT)

Can't judge Quiney on one innings (other than to say trying to hook a six twelve balls in was... ill-judged in a debut). Hope, should Quiney convert in Adelaide and Warner not, it doesn't become a tussle between them (and I'm Victorian). Australia absolutely needs Warner, as he is a proven matchwinner, although whether Warner is going to come to the party regularly enough to settle that in the selectors' minds is unclear.

If Khawaja is to get another go, it should be at the expense of Cowan. Cowan has grit, and Khawaja has orthodoxy. Both, bizarrely, are scatty at easily teachable stuff like being the non-strike batsman.

Posted by anilkp on (November 16, 2012, 17:02 GMT)

@heathrf1974: Johnson putting pressure on Hilfy? I don't agree, Buddy! Mitch Johnson knows only to put pressure on one individual: he himself. BTW, even if I do not like to see Quiney pushed up to open, hey, it's John Invers who is talking, and I am nothing. Invers has the best brain in selectorial matters in cricketing world now, and enjoys absolute freedom from CA and absolute support from his fellow selectors, which is a rare scenario today. If he is saying something, there is merit in it--no matter you understand it or not. Watson being shown the door for not bowling would be hard and ruthless, but that's the way the Aussies see cricket, and that's why and how they dominate. We Indians do not even have guts to point at (let alone drop) perpetual flops!

Posted by jb633 on (November 16, 2012, 16:34 GMT)

If Watson is fit why will he not open? He is a class opening batsmen and can play all types of bowling. I am not an Australian but can't work out why this guy is not in consideration to open any more. Any ideas?

Posted by NallaBaaba on (November 16, 2012, 16:24 GMT)

how many openers made 100 in 66 balls? give him a break now!

Posted by NallaBaaba on (November 16, 2012, 16:01 GMT)

such a disappointment. warner is an attacking player. why not give him time to get used to SA pace attack. shame on selectors

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 15:49 GMT)

Quiney doesnt deserve to replace Warner. Warner is far better than Quiney

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 14:54 GMT)

watson is more important to asissies than warner

Posted by hyclass on (November 16, 2012, 14:49 GMT)

It seems that some are of the opinion that Khawaja only plays on green decks and his runs are worth twice their value while others play on easy decks and the runs are a one for one proposition. I find extreme views sans evidence to be vexatious. Khawaja has a reasonable 430 runs at 47 this season from 9 innings. Doolan has 528 runs at 88 including 161* against SA in only 8 innings. There are 6 players outside the Test squad averaging more than Khawaja in 1st class this season. In order; Henriques-105, Doolan-88, Haddin-77, McDonald-55, Maxwell-51, Rogers-49. Two are opening batsmen, three are also bowlers and one a keeper. Haddin also has 2 hundreds this year,Rogers is coming off a hundred. It seems that were Australia looking for an opener,Rogers then Doolan might get the nod.My observations on Warner have been that his runs universally come on flat tracks and fast grounds against mediocre attacks.Adelaide is flat.He may come good but his game needs work v spin & pace/bounce combined

Posted by NallaBaaba on (November 16, 2012, 14:46 GMT)

Never saw so much praise for 13 ball 9 run knock. He was looking comfortable? eh. He might have gotten out 2nd ball if the edge carried. So disappointed. Warner is a good player and u need to persist with players and a wonderful fielder. Quiney's bowling is ineffective, but warner's leg spin might add variety. I will be disappointed if selectors don't include warner and i will quit watching aus tests. You need temperament for tests and warner and quiney don't have it, but warner is incredible player if he gets going. It's up to selectors to decide this, but if warner gets dropped then, SAHME ON SELECTORS

Posted by RandyOZ on (November 16, 2012, 14:34 GMT)

Well of course warner's spot is in trouble, because according to the Argus report we are meant to be picking on sustained shield form, so Khawaja is a dead set certainty for Adelaide right?

Posted by morriarty on (November 16, 2012, 14:02 GMT)

What a pathetic article .give me a break chop warner for a noob who fails with the bat but bowls and fields but takes no wickets and makes no impact on a game that was over after the day 2 washout.

What a load of drivel !

Quiney may be the best batter and fielder and and hahe demonstrated ve the IQ of einstein but after the first test he demonstrated that he was crap with the bat bowled at least as well as Wade and fielded no better than Watson.

Get a grip !

Posted by Marcio on (November 16, 2012, 14:02 GMT)

The maturity of the human species leaves a lot to be desired. So much nastiness projected after one failed innings of the season. Warner was the test success story of last season (his first), scored two fantastic centuries and also scored 2 ODI centuries when it mattered. How quickly people forget. The total misrepresresentation of his comments on the SA concentration thing is a public disgrace. He was asked by the journo to answer the question, and his actual comments were as mundane and harmless as can possibly be imagined. Yet the hate still pours in. It takes very little for bitterness to be squeezed out of a lemon - that is just its nature.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 13:51 GMT)

This new set of Aussie selectors seem to have as much regard for natural talent as their predecessors, which is why proven journeymen such as Quiney, Lyon, Siddle & Hilfenhaus are preferred to match-winning flair players like Warner, Watson, Hughes, Khawaja, Burns, Doolan, O'Keefe, Starc & Cummins. With the kind of safety-first conservative approach that Inverarity & his henchmen seem to favour, they'll be easy meat for the Saffers as well as India & England.

Posted by Big_Maxy_Walker on (November 16, 2012, 13:25 GMT)

if warner and ponting fail in adelaide that should be it for them. ponting has had way too many chances and only succeeded against a weak indian team last summer. warner should go back to shield cricket to improve his technique. khawaja is made for test cricket with his temperament and eye for leaving the ball. he needs an extended run. my team would be cowan, watson, quiney, khawaja, clarke, hussey, wade, siddle, starc, pattinson, lyon(adelaide spims and its his home ground).

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 13:22 GMT)

Stuart Davy, you're saying Warner is not a test opener, I agree he's not traditional but you need an aggressive opener in this age. An opener like that can take the game away quickly and disturb the bowling. He has the character. He does not give his wicket away as easily as Sehwag, who is a successful test opener in this age. And you'd have Warner replaced by Quiney? Quiney is a t20 expert. How can he ever play the role that Warner's not fit for? You're going for the same category as Warner. Besides, Warner is the best for the next test anyway since it's likely to be a batting friendly pitch.

Posted by blink182alex on (November 16, 2012, 13:21 GMT)

No doubt Warner's got a lot of talent but he's too much all or nothing, a couple of excellent 100's show he can do it but too many early failures. At least Watson would consistently make starts and see off the new ball although without converting 50's.

Not to convinced on Quiney, he fielded well but you don't have a bloke in to bat at 3 because he can field well, he needs to be able to score runs, only time will tell.

Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (November 16, 2012, 13:12 GMT)

Yes, Quiney gets 9 and is good enough to get rid of Warner.

Posted by shamlaatu on (November 16, 2012, 12:04 GMT)

I always wondered what Warner is doing in the test squad while Usman Khawaja sits out?

Posted by Criketanand on (November 16, 2012, 11:51 GMT)

lol. 9 times the score of ponting in last match is still equal to the score of ponting in that match as 9 times 0 is still a 0. :D

Posted by heathrf1974 on (November 16, 2012, 11:51 GMT)

You have both Khawaja and Phil Hughes placing pressure on players, such as Warner and Ponting. You also have Starc, Johnson and maybe Cutting putting pressure on Hilfenhaus. Things are starting to look a little brighter in the option stakes for Australian cricket.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 11:42 GMT)

Ancient Mariner, you choose a team to win the next Test match, not one in ten years time. Warner has played 21 first class matches, nine of them Tests, but about 100 one day games. He's got a reasonable average for an opener, but only if he actually scored 40 odd runs or thereabouts, with the odd half and full century thrown in, then he'd be a Test opener. Almost half of Warner's runs came in two Innings and you simply cannot continue to expose your number three and four to the role of opener.

Warner is not a Test opener. Ian Redpath, Bruce Laird,Geoff Marsh, Matthew Hayden must, or at least should, look at Warner's lack of respect for the first wicket with dismay. If he's not trying to flog the ball out of the ground, he prods and plokes because he doesn't use his feet. His technique for the first class game is seriously flawed. If you can't use your feet, if you rely solely on your eye, you're no good as an opener on the first morning of a Test match.

Posted by whofriggincares on (November 16, 2012, 11:36 GMT)

Quiney definitely a better option than warner at this stage. As talented as Warner is, if you dont have concerns about his game at test level then you dont understand the game simple as that. And although Quineys first class record at first glance is not that impressive he has had an outstanding past 2 seasons and did score 90 odd for australia A against the saffers recently. He is ready and the selectors should be commended for picking someone who is ready to produce. He has a fantastic balance of attack and defence and has the ability to be a matchwinner in the seldom seen Warner mould. 1 Quiney 2 Cowan 3 Clarke 4 Watson 5 Hussey 6 Ponting 7 Wade 8 Pattinson 9 Siddle 10 Starc 11 Lyon/Hilfy. Really think punter can extend to the ashes and beyond if he drops to 6.

Posted by Paul_Rampley on (November 16, 2012, 11:35 GMT)

@R_U_4_REAL_NICK is correct, Khawaja can't be too far from a call up, 2 man of the match performances in the last few games on absoulte green decks and Queensland are on top of the shield table. I also like the look of Burns and Doolan.

Posted by Mary_786 on (November 16, 2012, 11:33 GMT)

@pomshaveshortmemorie you are correct on Khawaja, selectors must have lost his phone number, he is the leading shield batsman this year, has been scoring on green decks in Hobart and Brisbane and there are not too many younger batsman with better credentials then him. Plus he is a great player in pressure situations as seen in shield this year, Bulls are at the top of the table thanks to him.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 11:29 GMT)

I agree. Warner is not a Test player. Quiney and Cowan to open, Michael Clarke at three, Ponting, Hussey and if he play Watson and six. If not, play both Hilf and Starc. Wade has a Test century, he can bat six and a tail that can score 100 runs between them, and that's all you want from your tail.

My team for Adelaide: Cowan, Quiney, Clarke, Ponting, Hussey, Wade (or Watson), Pattinson, Siddle, Lyon, Starc, Hilfenshaus.

If Watson is fit, he bats six and Wade seven, and one of the bowlers is dropped, probably Hilf, sadly, as I think he is a really good bowler. I'd drop Siddle before Hilf, but I doubt the selectors will.

Posted by Rahul_78 on (November 16, 2012, 11:01 GMT)

Ha,ha,ha,ha,Ho,Ho....someone was trying to teach concentration lessons to AB, Kallis and Amla yesterday. Wasn't he designated to be deputy to Michael Clarke recently. Such a pity that OZ who ones had deputy,s like Warne and Gilchrist have fallen to these painful standards.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 10:49 GMT)

Dismayed is dismayed that we get to discuss the playing futures of millionaires.Warner bats like a millionaire but has no place in test cricket.Quiney made nine times the score of ponting and should be doing his job,opening. Starc has to play as does the spinner,drop hilfenhaus and ponting and we can afford to play warner as well. What happens if ponting fails in adelaide? Sorry,Dismayed,I hope I havent caused any insecurity in the minds of the millionaires by discussing thsi.

Posted by Clyde on (November 16, 2012, 10:09 GMT)

No doubt Warner is worried about his own ability to concentrate.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 10:03 GMT)

i have no doubt david warner has the most natural ability of any of the batsmen in both teams he's also a brilliant fieldsman and and a handy leg spinner he should be retained

Posted by Dismayed on (November 16, 2012, 9:49 GMT)

Ahh come on. Enough of all this putting pressure on players again for no other reason that to sell a story. Warner is first choice everytime. Ed did well, lets see how he backs up over the next 2 tests. Quiney played freely for 9? Hughes continues to make runs, Allrounders all over the country continue to perform. Even when fit the way Watson chases the ball in the feild is a disgrace. Starc must come in for eithe Siddle or Hilf. End of story. Still we have Cutting, Hastings Butterworth, Coulter-Nile, M.Marsh, McDonald, S.Smith performing. Ponting should do the honorable thing and retire even if he scores in Adelaide.

Posted by ScottStevo on (November 16, 2012, 9:47 GMT)

...except for Watson, who is most susceptible once he raises the bat for his 50! lol

Posted by ScottStevo on (November 16, 2012, 9:47 GMT)

The only change that needs to be made in the side for the next test is to drop Quiney for Watson. As much as I think Warner needs to be a heck of a lot more consistent at the top of the order, there's no point dropping him at this stage. He needs to play this SA series well to keep his spot. I see a lot of talk for Starc to replace Hilfy, but as another has already said, he's a little undercooked for this series, but last season was very good home and away and deserves to stay. As Aus supporters, we don't want to get into this English way of thinking where one good test proves conclusively whether your the worst or greatest. I too liked Quiney's intent and he looks decent, but he's only a call up for the injured man and should rightfully be first to be removed. As for these calls for Punter to be replaced, can we please stop. He's been hitting the ball well and a score is coming and is one player that others truly fear. He's susceptible early, but then that's when all batsmen are...

Posted by Front-Foot-Lunge on (November 16, 2012, 9:44 GMT)

Warner is not a test match opener. Just look waht England did to him last time they met (like England do to Australia EVERY time they meet!). He has zero technique and is a joke.

Posted by poms_have_short_memories on (November 16, 2012, 9:39 GMT)

i wonder if the selectors have usman khawaja's ph no.? He is scoring runs and is arguably the form australian batsman at the moment (besides Clarke). He is far too talented to be forgotten by the selectors.

Posted by Shridharan.S on (November 16, 2012, 9:34 GMT)

My Australian XI for Perth Test: 1.Shane Watson 2.Ed Cowan 3.Rob Quiney 4.Ricky Ponting' 5.Michael Clarke(c) 6.Michael Hussey 7.Matthew Wade(wk) 8.Mitchell Starc 9.James Pattinson 10.Peter Siddle 11.Nathan Lyon

Posted by R_U_4_REAL_NICK on (November 16, 2012, 9:21 GMT)

What a great photo there of Starc! Reminds me of watching Superman - the early days... The Blur! LOL The Aus. bowlers did well in the first game, so as much as I'd like to see Starc given a run there's no obvious candidate from the first game to drop. Warner has to go! Surely Watson playing as a batsman only is better than walking-wicket switch-hit-and-out Warner. Huge Ponting fan, but the pressure is on him to perform or he'll be replaced by Khawaja...

Posted by stormy16 on (November 16, 2012, 9:09 GMT)

What is going on here? Didnt CA say yesterday that if Watson cant bowl Watson wont play - or something to that effect. I think that prompted Warner to start dishing out advice to SA on where their batsman should be looking when facing! Here we have CA saying Watson could play as a batter. This shouldnt be a debate - Watson must play as a batter if fit and forget about his bowling for this test atleast.

Posted by WonkyFNQ on (November 16, 2012, 9:04 GMT)

Invers is a clever fox. This is probably just a ploy to get Warner to shut his mouth and concentrate, and also to give all of us something to talk about. Great to see Quiney picked though, as it shows the selectors are picking on form, not stats. The Hilditch panel would have called on someone like D Hussey or Haddin to fill Watson's spot as a bandaid solution.

Posted by Flash_hard27 on (November 16, 2012, 9:03 GMT)

Hilarious! After his preposterous comments yesterday regarding some of the South African batsmen. Further proof that this bloke needs to engage his brain before opening his mouth.

Posted by JoieDeVivre on (November 16, 2012, 8:43 GMT)

For a man who has scored only 2 Test tons with one ending on a losing note and the other against a woeful Indian attack, David Warner has too many things to say. Perfect example of foot-in-mouth disease & if he does lose his place he is going to look and sound like a clown. Instead of speaking inappropriate things he should focus on his batting and worry where is next run is going to come from.

Posted by jonesy2 on (November 16, 2012, 8:43 GMT)

the funniest thing is hilfenhaus was better than every south african bowler, obviously and yet all we hear on here is articles featuring rubbish about how good south africa are. nothing about how philander was school boy level at best, or nothing about rudolph, nothing about smith or peterson. is australia that huge and dominating in the world of cricket that the most dangerous opener in world cricket has his place questioned after one damn innings of not tearing an attack to shreds?

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 8:34 GMT)

How can Quiney be considered ahead of Warner? Warner is a more long term solution and can play match winning innings on his day. Quiney hasn't even got a great first class average. Warner has already proved he can do well at the top level.

Posted by Simoc on (November 16, 2012, 8:26 GMT)

I fancy Pattinson for twelth man in Adelaide so that he is a loose cannon by the time Perth comes around and on a ground that may suit him. I expect lots of runs again in Adelaide and comparitively few runs scored in Perth. Warner has been out of form for a long period now and needs an innings of substance soon.

Posted by Marcio on (November 16, 2012, 8:19 GMT)

Simply bizzare. Warner fails once and they are going to drop him for a guy who made 4 runs in his debut? How is that any better form to pick him on? Or for Cowan, who averages ten runs an innings less over the same period? I would have thought a sustained period of success would would be used to measure your spot in the team, not simply a good last innings. No batsmen on either side scored runs in the WI, which was the last series, and which meant that Cowan's and Warner's aberages dropped considerably, as they had only played a few tests. I'm beginning to think this writer has it in for Warner. I'm pretty sure Warner won't answer any more of his questions after the negative way he spun the story about SA batsmen needing to focus.

Posted by kensohatter on (November 16, 2012, 8:06 GMT)

Whilst scoring only 9 in his first test I too was impressed with Quiney. He really attacked and got out trying to be positive. Im not sure though he is a better long term option for Australia though. I do think hes a better option than Warner to take to the Ashes though. Warner is just not consistent enough... On his day he is devastating much like a Sehwag but aside from these few and far between days hes a walking wicket and the swinging conditions of England will expose him far more than Quiney.

Posted by Gordo85 on (November 16, 2012, 8:06 GMT)

Finally !! There is a god. I am so happy to hear this. I seriously hope they drop Warner in favour for Quiney. Warner has a big mouth and he talks too much with out much action. This will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 7:58 GMT)

What nonsense, its far too early to drop warner, he is still averaging around the 40 mark in tests which is up to the standard required, he will fire soon. Watson probably wont play but if he does it will certainly be in place of quiney

Posted by _Australian_ on (November 16, 2012, 7:38 GMT)

Surley it would depend on what Quiney does also. I would have Warner over Quiney if both fail in Adelaide.

Posted by onefornone on (November 16, 2012, 6:51 GMT)

batting friendly adelaide will be a draw, so it is important to aim at getting the saffa bowlers tired only three days out from the cruical perth test. for perth, bring in a fresh watto along with pattinson, siddle, starc and perhaps johnson (ONLY if he continues current waca form). surely that attack should give enough strike power, variety and experience to get the 20 wickets needed for the win and the no 1 test ranking?

Posted by Edwards_Anderson on (November 16, 2012, 6:37 GMT)

Quiney got 9 last game, how exactly does he displace Warner. And Cowan only has one good score, surely that doesn't mean he is secure for the rest of the summer. Hughes is the man for me, he is younger and has a better record then both Cowan and Quiney.

Posted by hycIass on (November 16, 2012, 6:33 GMT)

Cowan only got his first century, surely that only buys him 2 games at best, he needs to keep performing otherwise he should be dropped as you need more then one century to prove your positoin in the team.

Posted by KhanMitch on (November 16, 2012, 6:31 GMT)

I think dropping Warner for Quiney would be a mistake, Quiney has yet to prove himself and Warner is a proven perforrmer. Doolan and Khawaja are scoring heaveily in shield as the top 2 shield scorrers and can't be far from their callups too if the top order doesn't perform.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 6:24 GMT)

Sounds like Lyon is going to be doing plenty of bowling in Adelaide before getting a rest from the Perth match... Invers is right, if you can't run in and bowl you're probably nursing yourself in the field too and turning whilst running between the wickets isn't going to be smooth. Watto is only a so so runner at best in any case, they don't need him becoming a liabilty or worse still sitting out the next 6 months, Duminy style. I can't agree with them dropping Warner though. He scored two very good centuries last summer and should be persisted with right through this summer, I believe. Plenty of natural talent and learns fast.

Posted by JustOUT on (November 16, 2012, 6:18 GMT)

funny... just y'day this joker Warner commented on SA batsmen concentration etc etc.. but he failed to realize abt his status in the team.. good lesson for him.. He is not fit to play TEST cricket.

Posted by electric_loco_WAP4 on (November 16, 2012, 6:00 GMT)

He deserves a nice kick up........and rightly so. Hope he gets back his focus in shield games and time out of the test side- which he got a decent run of games despite lack of consistency-makes him more mature as player and person-which has not shown recently. Has the talent- 2 test 100 despite his 'style' of play- only not let it go to waste as he seems to recently by words and deeds....

Posted by path_finder_13 on (November 16, 2012, 5:50 GMT)

and he was questioning concentration levels of kallis amla smith and AB.....ironic......

Posted by Markus971 on (November 16, 2012, 5:41 GMT)

Your kidding! Cowan & Quiney? Mistake 1 for the season B.Hilfenhaus over M.Stark.. Lets hope Khwaja or Hughes or someone else hits top form ... please!!Or its going to be another Home series lose. -oh what happened to Warners spinners?

Posted by ozwriter on (November 16, 2012, 5:40 GMT)

warner talks big one minute, almost gets a demotion nekminnit

Posted by BenjiForsyth on (November 16, 2012, 5:38 GMT)

Warner has to go. He is a T20 player at best. He says he won't change the way he plays but in order to survive in test cricket you need to be able to grind out an innings. You don't want to chance your arm and see what happens. In regards to Watson i think he is slightly overrated. 35 tests, 2 centuries at an average of 37 isn't good enough for a player everyone thinks is so valuable. He has he been in and out of the side consistently due to injury thus upsetting the balance of the side at times and with selectors trying a different player each time is no way to get a top order player settled.

Look at our spin bowling situation. Just about every spinner in this country has had a bowl for australia and the groundsmen from Adelaide is now playing.

Our top order can't afford to go through a similar rut. We need stability!!! Just because a young bloke fails doesn't mean they are not worth it.

Wake up selectors!!!!!!!!! You are well on your way to destroying Australian cricket

Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (November 16, 2012, 5:24 GMT)

Oh no! Same 11! Big mistake! Yet somewhat predicted. But so long as Mitchell Starc plays, and Nathan Lyon doesn't, it isn't fatal. Fingers crossed we get Watson instead of Quiney too.

Posted by Meety on (November 16, 2012, 5:08 GMT)

If Watto plays & can bowl, I think the selectors would be more likely to bring Starc in for either Siddle or Hilfy. There is a lot to say for keeping either Hilfy or Siddle, but as we need to win the series, Starc's left arm variety is beneficial.

Posted by popcorn on (November 16, 2012, 5:04 GMT)

I am glad the Selectors have had the sense to include Shane Watson in the Squad of 13 forthe Adelaide Test. But to hang a sword over his head that he will be in the playing 11 only if he can bowl, is injustice to him.He is the Vice Captain of he Team, and can hiold his place on sheer batting merit.Dave Warner has poor technique, compared to watson. He is predominantly a T20 batsman - he doesn't even have match practice in T20! He should be dropped in favour of Shane Watson as opener. Give Warner a 4 day Shield game to get into 5 day Test match mode LET HIM COMPETE WITH USMAN KHAWAJA FOR THE WACA TEST.Rob Quiney should stay at number 3 for the Adelaide Test. He has good Test match technique.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 4:56 GMT)

Stick with Hilfy. Had only one warm-up Sheffield shield game prior to the test after sitting on the bench for the t20 world cup and was the cornerstone. Starc isn't there yet. Was our leading wicket taker against India and our second leading wicket taker against the west indies in the tests. Worth keeping ahead of Starc, who while talented, isn't proven.

Posted by hotcric01 on (November 16, 2012, 3:58 GMT)

Watson is not a specialist in either batting or bowling.He is only good for the team as an allrounder.His batting suits to No.06 or 07(in tests).Warner and Watson pair is not suitable for opening in tests.A steady batsman like cowan should bat with warner as an opener.And also aus should find a good fast bowling allrounder to replace watson in tests,because watson's workload is too heavy,because he is more popular in the world as a t20 specialist.

Posted by Stevo_ on (November 16, 2012, 3:43 GMT)

Watson in for Lyon - let Quiney bat further down.

Posted by HatsforBats on (November 16, 2012, 3:42 GMT)

They won't replace Hilfenhous with Starc and nor should they. Both of them were short of match fitness and practice and to think Starc could come in and do a better job is without basis. Hilfenhous beat the bat plenty and had no luck go his way at the gabba, he'll be better for the run out come Adelaide. Mind you, I would love to see Starc playing.

Posted by   on (November 16, 2012, 3:37 GMT)

starc took 4 wickets in a sheild match recently he took 4/70 odd and should be in the team for hilfy who only took 2 tailenders wickets

Posted by xylo on (November 16, 2012, 3:27 GMT)

Warner might now be nervous about how good his concentration is, and how easily he gets distracted.

Posted by Dashgar on (November 16, 2012, 3:06 GMT)

Identical 13 to the first test, as it should be. Australia's recent stability is the underlying reason for their success.

Posted by hmmmmm... on (November 16, 2012, 3:01 GMT)

"The NSP was very pleased with the strong showing...", that's because Clarke, Cowan and Hussey covered up the below par performance of warner, Quiney and Ponting!

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Daniel BrettigClose
Daniel Brettig Assistant editor Daniel Brettig had been a journalist for eight years when he joined ESPNcricinfo, but his fascination with cricket dates back to the early 1990s, when his dad helped him sneak into the family lounge room to watch the end of day-night World Series matches well past bedtime. Unapologetically passionate about indie music and the South Australian Redbacks, Daniel's chief cricketing achievement was to dismiss Wisden Almanack editor Lawrence Booth in the 2010 Ashes press match in Perth - a rare Australian victory that summer.
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