England v India, 2nd npower Test, Trent Bridge, 4th day

Flower denies double standards over run-out reprieve

ESPNcricinfo staff

August 2, 2011

Comments: 348 | Text size: A | A

Much to the surprise of everyone at the ground, Ian Bell emerged from the pavilion after tea, England v India, 2nd npower Test, Trent Bridge, 3rd day, July 31, 2011
Ian Bell's reinstatement came after an intervention from Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss © Getty Images
Enlarge

England's coach, Andy Flower, believes his team was right to ask India to rethink their controversial run-out of Ian Bell at Trent Bridge, adding that it would have caused an "international incident" had Sachin Tendulkar been dismissed in a similarly bizarre fashion.

Bell's 159 was the cornerstone of England's revival in the second Test, as they turned a first-innings deficit of 67 into a thumping 319-run victory. However, he might have been sent on his way for 137 on the stroke of tea, when a half-hearted throw from Praveen Kumar the boundary's edge led Abhinav Mukund to remove the bails with Bell already walking back to the pavilion.

Bell conceded he had been "naive" in failing to wait for the umpire to signal the end of the over, but with boos ringing out around the ground, Flower and England's captain, Andrew Strauss, took the decision to visit the Indian dressing room to request a change of heart. Such an approach was at odds with England's attitude during an ODI at The Oval in 2008, when New Zealand's Grant Elliott was run out after colliding with Ryan Sidebottom. Flower, however, said that those who criticised England's actions on this occasion were guilty of "double standards".

"We didn't think sitting in our changing room and fuming quietly to ourselves was going to do any good," Flower told reporters at Trent Bridge. "We thought communicating like that would be the way to go. We felt that Bell wasn't attempting to take a run and therefore we wanted to ask the Indian side to reconsider their appeal."

Dhoni was asked three times by the umpires whether he was happy for the appeal to go ahead, and though he later suggested that he had changed his mind before England's intervention, it has since been claimed that Tendulkar was the instigator of the retraction.

Perhaps India were mindful of the potential for controversy had Bell remained out. During England's 1974 tour of the Caribbean, Tony Greig ran out Alvin Kallicharran in the final over of the day, only for the batsman to be reinstated overnight at the behest of the British high commissioner, after angry spectators had stormed the ground and laid siege to the pavilion.

"I'm not convinced there wouldn't have been uproar," said Flower of such a scenario. "If an England side had done that in Mumbai [against Tendulkar], I think there would have been a proper international incident on the cards. I don't think that's being overly dramatic. We've seen similar things happen before. In evaluating the situation, I don't think you should have double standards."

England's crushing victory has left them needing just one more victory, or back-to-back draws, in the final two matches of the series to be crowned the No. 1 Test side. Flower refused to think that far ahead, though, and reiterated that the series had not even been won yet, let alone by any title-clinching margin.

"I would like to emphasise right now that we're ahead in the series but we're only halfway through the series," he said. "So there is no point in triumphalism, we don't even know if we're going to win the series yet. At the forefront of our minds right now should be resting and recuperating after the back-to-back Tests and then getting our minds and bodies ready for the next challenge at Edgbaston. It's actually not only pointless looking further ahead than that, it's dangerous."

With the Edgbaston Test starting on August 10, England have a week to determine the fitness of Jonathan Trott. Flower said he was "still in a bit of discomfort and nowhere near 100% yet" after landing heavily on his shoulder while fielding during the second Test. Trott's possible replacement is the uncapped Leicestershire batsman, James Taylor, who stole a march on Ravi Bopara by making 76 for England Lions against Sri Lanka A in Scarborough on Tuesday. However, there may yet be the temptation to play five bowlers, given that Stuart Broad and Tim Bresnan both racked up more than 100 runs in Nottingham.

The expected return to fitness of Chris Tremlett means that Bresnan may yet have to make way. "If we keep with three seamers and a spinner, it will be a difficult call to make," said Flower. "We need to see conditions first but our four seamers are all performing exceptionally well. Bresnan, Tremlett, [Jimmy] Anderson and [Stuart] Broad are battling for the top spots in a very healthy way. That sort of competition is a great thing for English cricket."

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

Posted by circit on (August 5, 2011, 23:57 GMT)

@Barnesy - And the rule also says that the batsman has to be in the crease till the umpire calls it an over. Bell was outisde his crease before the umpire called it an over.

Posted by Barnesy4444 on (August 5, 2011, 15:23 GMT)

If I remember correctly the law states that a batsman can only be given run out if he is attempting a run. As he wasn't attempting a run he shouldn't have been given out.

Posted by circit on (August 5, 2011, 1:54 GMT)

Very well said VAS4...From the start you see a sign of Legend in player....Legends are born legends...they do not evolve over time.

Posted by salazar555 on (August 4, 2011, 22:58 GMT)

@vas4, Bell is a player on the rise and tendulkar is a player on the way out. Who knows, in 10 nyears time Bell might have 12000 runs and be considered a legend. Bell is still a young man 25-26, give him time.

Tendulkar has been a fantastic player but his time is coming to an end, he still shows moments of brilliance but they are becoming less and less.

What's more important is that England don't fear him, i'm pretty sure they would prefer to get dravid out early than tendulkar because they feel he is a better player at this moment in time

Posted by VAS4 on (August 4, 2011, 19:58 GMT)

Tendulkar and Bell are of different standards to start with anyway. Tendulkar is LEGENDARY, and Bell is ORDINARY.

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 19:51 GMT)

So suddenly this Indian team is the standard bearer for the true spirit of the game, and yet :

1) They very publicly questioned umpiring decisions in the recent West Indies tour , this has always been taboo, 2) They have resisted technology which has proven to result in better decisions , this despite every other test playing nation being in favour. 3) Dhoni did retract the appeal but only after 3 times refusing to do so when asked by the umpires who clearly felt uneasy about giving Bell out. Its about time some of you showed some dignity and stopped making excuses and putting up smokescreens , you are getting beaten by a far superior side so just grin and bear it as us long suffering England fans have done often enough in the past.

Posted by som_deb on (August 4, 2011, 19:05 GMT)

Mr Flower plz see the replay of Tendulkar dismissal against Pakistan in Eden Garden before commenting. Sachin collided with Shoib Akhtar while completing a run and got run out. Akram didnot withdraw the appeal and Tendulkar was out much to the chagrin of Eden crowd.If Pakistan can do that in front of the massive Eden crowd and that too to Indian favorite idol Sachin, then India could have very well stuck to their appeal. In that case Sachin was not at fault and Spirit of the Game came into picture. Here Bell is clearly at fault and should have been out. Although Bell added 22 more runs, Morgan scored heavily before Bell got out and whole tempo switched to England. 187 runs were scored in that session because the full competitive tempo of Test cricket was forfeited by Strauss and Flower begging. I am totally disgusted by the whole episode and solely blame naive Bell and unrelenting Flower/Strauss. I challenge any ardent English fan to say that even one sentence of mine is incorrect.

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 18:57 GMT)

@salazar555 - No doubt that Bell played better than Tendulkar in the first 2 tests. It's but obvious that no player will be in prime form all the time. But you just can't compare the two players. They do not belong in the same league. You should know that!

Posted by kumarcoolbuddy on (August 4, 2011, 18:53 GMT)

@chad_reid, Andy Flower itself doesn't remember that Sachin was given run-out in a match with Pakistan after collided with bowler. So no wonder u don't remember that but atleast use some sense while commenting instead of supporting Andy blindly while so many people are supporting good. Isn't it very clear that Andy is trying put Indians down by blaming them in return?

Posted by Ekkanath on (August 4, 2011, 18:52 GMT)

Fowlers comments are very hypothetical. What India did was right and what England manager and captain did were wrong. Bell should have given himself out in the first ball and maintained the dignity of the game.

Posted by kumarcoolbuddy on (August 4, 2011, 18:52 GMT)

@chad_reid, Andy Flower itself doesn't remember that Sachin was given run-out in a match with Pakistan after collided with bowler. So no wonder u don't remember that but atleast use some sense while commenting instead of supporting Andy blindly while so many people are supporting good. Isn't it very clear that Andy is trying put Indians down by blaming them in return?

Posted by kumarcoolbuddy on (August 4, 2011, 18:45 GMT)

@salazar555, I respect your opinion that ENG is performing better than India currently because Indians are lacking confidence currently but at the same time I don't like the team who depends (sometimes heavily) on Mind game approach. I didn't like AUS because besides to having good talent it heavily depended on sledging and mind game. ENG is becoming next Aussie here. ENG is very clearly making issues for their convenience. I am not saying from the disappointment of India's defeat. Despite knowing that Bell was scoring heavily India withdrew the appeal so I am more happy than disappointed. But one thing is sure ENG will make more drama if they feel they are going to lose because they are desperate to go to #1 spot and want to win at any cost.

Posted by kumarcoolbuddy on (August 4, 2011, 18:41 GMT)

@salazar555, I respect your opinion that ENG is performing better than India currently because Indians are lacking confidence currently but at the same time I don't like the team who depends (sometimes heavily) on Mind game approach. I didn't like AUS because besides to having good talent it heavily depended on sledging and mind game. ENG is becoming next Aussie here. ENG is very clearly making issues for their convenience. I am not saying from the disappointment of India's defeat. Despite knowing that Bell was scoring heavily India withdrew the appeal so I am more happy than disappointed. But one thing is sure ENG will make more drama if they feel they are going to lose because they are desperate to go to #1 spot and want to win at any cost.

Posted by fguy on (August 4, 2011, 18:17 GMT)

@Dravid_Gravitas absolutely right. eng fans must be watching some other match coz one can clearly see bell running first half of the pitch then slowing down thinking its gone fr 4. u can also see morgan who's body language is hesitant and like "what are u doing dude" and he grounds his bat. bell realising that it may not be 4 and that he wont be able to make it back in time goes ahead and bluffs his way through. his expression after that and even while claiming that some one called over is sheepish, like he knows he's lying. even shane warne feels that bell conned his way. and eng fans say that indians are not neutral!!

Posted by salazar555 on (August 4, 2011, 17:46 GMT)

@Rajesh

Bell is playing better than tendulkar and England are better than India so you're certanly right on that point

Posted by kash-1969 on (August 4, 2011, 17:23 GMT)

There is every thing fare in love and war, thats mean you have be clever enough to use your mind at right time. so you get the advantange of the situation. So geting the Number 1 spot in test cricket you think and do the right decision at right time.

I think thats all I want to say.

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 16:54 GMT)

Bell is not Tendulkar and England is not India, so no Indian team would have begged for reconsideration and somebody begs we have to give it to them

Posted by cricketzilla on (August 4, 2011, 16:21 GMT)

Currently India are playing very badly . Hope they put up a good show in next 2 test matches, especially batsmen.

Posted by kumarcoolbuddy on (August 4, 2011, 15:43 GMT)

After everything is settled, now Andy is creating this drama and trying to blame India. It's really pathetic Andy is involving Sachin in Bell's incident. Not just Dhoni whole Indias has decided to reversed the appeal with good intention and why can't Andy just leave it there? He is wantedly giving provoking statements by involving Sachin. Take my words if ENG feel they are going to lose the 3rd test Andy and his Co will be create more drama. ENG has many people like Ian Botham, Michael Vaughan, Andy Flower to create such dramas. Not all ENG fans but some of them are blindly supporting Andy for his senseless acts because ENG is winning and that is all they want.

Posted by VixV on (August 4, 2011, 13:32 GMT)

Andy Flower saying about Tendulkar and imagining that if the same eventwould have happened in Mumbai with Tendulkar, it would have made things worst...wow! this is heights of fake imagination. In my view Tendulkar would not have left the crease for tea unless the umpire would have said its OVER. English players and management are trying to blame again India for this... Spirit ..I don't think they themselves have played with right spirit. I doubt and cancel the hattrick taken by Broad in first innings of 2nd test..why they then haven't asked Bhajji to come back after lookin the edge on to pad over the big screen... This is not a good series in terms of respect for the game. And to English fans come to India in Summer...we will show you whose superior in home conditions.....

Posted by shaantanu on (August 4, 2011, 11:03 GMT)

we indian supporters have been castigated in the past for bringing in Tendulkar in any topic out of context.......n here we see flower doing the same thing.just move over this incident and enjoy the moment.n as an indian supporter i humbly state that we have been humbled n how:)....well done england for the way you have performed but cant say the same about flower.

Posted by Thyagu5432 on (August 4, 2011, 10:43 GMT)

It is surprising people talk about what Sachin would have done and that he would never do certain things. I am not sure Sachin would have been involved in the recall of Bell. He is not known to be sportive. Remember IPL 2010 finals? Sachin was clearly caught behind and he refused to walk. May be, to take away the attention of all Indians from the defeat, he might have suggested to Dhoni to recall Bell.

Posted by UNIVERSAL_CRICKETER on (August 4, 2011, 10:37 GMT)

1st CONGRATULATION TO ENGLAND........BELL WAS OUT AS PER LAW.......WHY FLOWER & STRAUSS CREATED A CONTROVERSY BY BEGGING THE INDIANS FOR WITHDRAWING THE APPEAL.......THE RESULT OF THE MATCH OR IMAGINATIVE HYPOTHESIS ABOUT TENDULKAR OR THE EXCUSE ABOUT THE SPORTSMANSHIP SPIRIT IS NOT AT ALL RELATED TO THE LAWFUL OUT OF BELL.... NOR DOES THESE JUSTIFY THE UNLAWFUL BEHAVIOR OF FLOWER & STRAUSS ........AS FLOWER IS TRYING TO BE TOO SMART FOR HIS STATURE , HE CAN VERIFY HOW TENDULKAR & THE INDIAN TEAM MEEKLY ACCEPTED THE UMPIRES DECISION WHEN SHOAIB AKHTAR BLOCKED HIM RESULTING IN HIS RUN OUT AT EDEN GARDENS.....NO NEED FOR INDULGING IN SPECULATION........

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 9:44 GMT)

Difference is the English wouldn't have lazily swanned around the ball and the English bowler asked the umpire for his sweater. They would have grabbed the ball quickly and thrown it as fast as they could to the wicket-keeper. Then the batsman would have known that the ball was still live. Bell was just confused by the lazy, feckless Indian fielders. He shouldn't have been though, they've been useless ever since they arrived in England.

Posted by bharath_usa on (August 4, 2011, 9:25 GMT)

Gilchrist and Lara were known to walk. Now we have one known to run.....that too only for tea. Maybe biscuits were included that day ;)

That the opposition didnt think it was a big deal to let you bat the second time, is a bigger embarrassment. And it is now in the history books too. :)

Posted by waughjunior on (August 4, 2011, 8:44 GMT)

Tendulkar is overated anyway,if he had of been dismissed this way in England or Australia the Indian team and management WOULD of been crying for blood and threatening a boycot of the match and series during the tea break. Get over it you Indian fans England played better and stood up to your over agressive theatrics!

Posted by Dr.J.P on (August 4, 2011, 8:38 GMT)

Being No:1 is not for the faint hearted. It requires character and strength to be No:1. Or you are one among the crowd who sways to the fancies of one and all. India dont deserve to be No:1. Just as simple as that. Its not because they are not good enough. But they dont have the air of superiority or confidence that should be there for a No! team. Indian team is a shame for the label. They seem like a team that is there because others are letting them stay there. I am very sad for the weakness shown by Indian team in the face of pressure from England fans and team to recall Bell. It showed the lack of strength of a team which knows they dont belong there. It wasnt a show of cricket's spirit, but of a team that had no direction or desire.

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 8:23 GMT)

Its not about the rules of the game. Its not about who've done what in the past or what may happen in the future. Its about integrity and doing the right thing. The cricket world wants to say 'Well done Dhoni. Well done India.' Its a shame the fans wont let us.

Posted by manxspike on (August 4, 2011, 7:28 GMT)

Who Cares about his any more? an insignificant incident ;/ play cricket, and im afaid as much as i like India, they are rubbish in England, sorry......

Posted by Ceaser9495 on (August 4, 2011, 7:16 GMT)

But I think we are forgetting the real point. Whether the Bell was out or not? Technically Yes, he was out....and Indian cant do anything with that....he didnt come back to crease and he is oooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttttttttt

Posted by bjay on (August 4, 2011, 4:25 GMT)

ok here is an idea. The whole point of the DRS is to eliminate the errors through Umpiring. Lets take a stance here, a Moral stance. Suppose a batsmen is given out, why not let him stay on field until a proper tv replay is seen on the big screen on field. After that, if the fielding captain feels fit to call the batsman back, he can do so( in the case of Harbhajan Singh, a thick inside edge.) This would probably make the players more Morally responsible and may be even bring about a change in the attitude of players. Umpires can now be less pressurized. And there wont be any requirement for a DRS.

Posted by sliceanddice on (August 4, 2011, 0:26 GMT)

Bottomline - did Dhoni's decision to recall Bell cost India the match? I don't think so. They lost because they didn't perform. So, in the end, while India lost a match they would have lost anyway, cricket as a sport won. And in a dog-eat-dog world, where the attitude seems to be winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, it was refreshing to see behaviour that puts sportsmanship before end goal. Enough said. Let's move on to match 3 and 4.

Posted by   on (August 4, 2011, 0:07 GMT)

To clarify a point, Flower and Strauss did not go begging Dhoni. They had no need to beg; India were already out of the game. Instead they asked Dhoni if, for the sake of the spirit of the game and to avoid ill-feeling, he would withdraw the appeal. They were within their rights to do this; in cricket it is called a "gentlemans agreement" and not considered to undermine umpires. Dhoni could have said no, in which case him and his team would have had to face some jeers and bad press.

Indian fans should applaud the long-sightedness of their captain. The game was gone already, and Dhoni has now allowed for the incident to be in the past. India still have all to play for in this series, and they can now move on to focus on winning the next test rather than talking about this.

Indian fans should also move on from this incident; if Dhoni had not accepted to withdraw the appeal then India would have been villanised, and still suffered a thumping defeat. Instead they are seen as gentlemen.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 22:41 GMT)

Ok, so - in the context of the match India could have used a wicket and (perhaps) some momentum. That being said - Bell's innings by that time had already pretty much flattened the Indian bowling. India didn't lose the match because they recalled Bell - they lost cuz they allowed ENG to recover from 124/8 , failed to put across a lead of over 100-150 runs when the batting conditions were not as tough as Day-1, and just didn't turn up well enough in the 2nd innings on either departments. ENG beat IND by better preparation and by playing better cricket - match over last week, done and dusted - move on!

Posted by BigDataIsAHoax on (August 3, 2011, 22:36 GMT)

@som_deb:mate totally precise. u hit the nail on the coffin mate!!

Posted by __PK on (August 3, 2011, 22:00 GMT)

...and as for Andy Flower saying "If an England side had done that in Mumbai..." Done what? All the Indians did was keep playing the game when Bell decided he'd hit a boundary and could wander about wherever he wanted.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 21:41 GMT)

Do not compare Bell to Tendulkar, he wouldn't have been so naive

Posted by som_deb on (August 3, 2011, 21:40 GMT)

Mr Flower plz see the replay of Tendulkar dismissal against Pakistan in Eden Garden before commenting. Sachin collided with Shoib Akhtar while completing a run and got run out. Akram didnot withdraw the appeal and Tendulkar was out much to the chagrin of Eden crowd.If Pakistan can do that in front of the massive Eden crowd and that too to Indian favorite idol Sachin, then India could have very well stuck to their appeal. In that case Sachin was not at fault and Spirit of the Game came into picture. Here Bell is clearly at fault and should have been out. Although Bell added 22 more runs, Morgan scored heavily before Bell got out and whole tempo switched to England. 187 runs were scored in that session because the full competitive tempo of Test cricket was forfeited by Strauss and Flower begging. I am totally disgusted by the whole episode and solely blame naive Bell and unrelenting Flower/Strauss. I challenge any ardent English fan to say that even one sentence of mine is incorrect.

Posted by pom_don on (August 3, 2011, 21:19 GMT)

Why all the fuss, this is now history & has not changed any results, nice to see good sportsmanship prevail even if it was prompted, bring on the next game & sit back & enjoy the cricket that's what it is all about....CRICKET! & hopefully good competetive cricket here's hoping for another hard battle & of course another England victory at the end of it....come on England!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 21:15 GMT)

Doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, decisions were made by the people involved, and they made the decisions they felt were the best at the time. The game has ended, it was last week, move on!!

Posted by kalyanbk on (August 3, 2011, 20:48 GMT)

We did not see Strauss recall Harbhajan after he was given LBW off an inside edge.

Posted by leepop79 on (August 3, 2011, 20:20 GMT)

Was I the only person watching the ICC CHampions Trophy in 2009 ijn South Africa when Andrew Strauss recalled Sri Lankan batsman Angelo Matthews?!?!?!!? What India did wasd excellent for sport as a whole and typical of MS Dhoni really - however, I dont think anyone can argue that it affected the result!!!!

Posted by pankajkumarsingh on (August 3, 2011, 19:55 GMT)

@Stark62 - Great you bring in an incident and a great point !!!

Posted by pankajkumarsingh on (August 3, 2011, 19:46 GMT)

@TheDurbanTrundler - Ah, just saw your other post - Problem is: neither situations were hypothetical. Sidebottom/Collinwood incident did happen and England did not withdraw their appeal against the Kiwi. It also happened with Sachin in Kolkota and Akram did not withdraw his appeal. What takes it a notch up is - Akram did have that tea time (20 mins) to reconsider his decision because Tea was taken early due to crowd uproar. Your initial post is still appreciated though - you did make the best 4 points.

Posted by gandabhai on (August 3, 2011, 19:09 GMT)

FLOWER IS VERY DESPERATE TO WIN & WILL WIN AT ALL COSTS .

Posted by VAS4 on (August 3, 2011, 18:41 GMT)

Mr Flower, would you have called Tendulkar back if he was out?

Posted by Dravid_Pujara_Gravitas_Atheist on (August 3, 2011, 18:07 GMT)

Bell conned everybody bigtime. Watch the footage, he says, "he called tea". Now who called tea, Sir? He was attempting a run and/or ambled out like a school kid and realising that he couldn't make it back, he kept moving and tried to push it on to that non-existent somebody that 'called' tea. His subsequent insistence that he deserves to be let off, come what may, is a give away that he conned bigtime. He, instead, could have said, "look, I could have gone back to my crease you know", but he couldn't say that in his defence, because he was in no position to go back. If he was in a position to go back, he would have shown us his that option as well, and clarified to us logically and reasonably that he deserved to be let off, in the wake of that second option he had at his disposal, rather than insisting that he deserved to be let off. So, the only way to escape is to conn, move on and spin a story that "he called tea". See, Bell conned everybody bigtime. I like his 'presence' of mind ;)

Posted by Wismay on (August 3, 2011, 17:32 GMT)

@omairhr you don't get the point, do you? Sachin had grounded his bat and then collided and bat got lifted in the air and ball hit the stumps. Now tell me if he had not collided wasn't he be well in? That is where the question of taking back comes. Compare it to bell incident? What was he doing? he hits a ball and takes run and then wanders around? So taking back the appeal against the run out doesn't arises at all. But England team did the request to take back the appeal. But in Sachin incident taking back was there as Sachin had already reached the crease. So crowd getting angry is justified in that case. But not when a batsman goes around and is far away from crease and says he just thought something else! LOL

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 17:22 GMT)

What happened to Harbajan's LBW decision in First innings of 2nd Test Match? If they have seen on the TV replays or big screens, why didn't the third umpire not involved. Recently I've been seeing that third umpire is reviewing the Noball after, the wicket falls.

Posted by vparisa on (August 3, 2011, 17:08 GMT)

@omairhr, Wasim Akram himself admitted on live TV during the second test that he did not call SRT back because he checked with umpire and referee and they both said its out and left the decision up to him. Its not because the new batsmen played few deliveries. And yes, SRT was out. Wasim was brave enough to take that decision while Dhoni is not :) it is as simple as that. I love Wasim for that!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 16:58 GMT)

why has sachin been dragged here.....why do people start comparing sachin with every good or bad happens with cricket......its totally useless view given by andy flower......like wise had sachin taken 800 wickets he would have been the best allrounder of the world......ifs and buts are really annoying ......mr flower -please stop this blame game ....

Posted by Gupta.Ankur on (August 3, 2011, 16:56 GMT)

there is no need to get Sachin in here, Indians and Sachin are too proud to ask for a reprieve like england

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 16:27 GMT)

Despite being an indian, can't help but feeling the incident is being blown out of proportion. Indians knew they had made a mistake and they had corrected it. Instead of moving on with its a pity to see indian press and public are still talking about it forgetting one of the most humiliating defeats in tests

Posted by cricketsage on (August 3, 2011, 16:18 GMT)

Furthermore, Flower had no business going to Indian dressing room to request they change their appeal. Bell had completed his century and England were in a strong position. Its not like Bell missed out on a landmark or England were left facing defeat. That is what rankles me, sportsmanship aside. If your batsman was dozing, how many time do you expect to get a reprieve ? Its Bell's fault. He should have held up his hand and said I made a mistake and I was out.

We should never let crowd reaction dictate decisions made during a match, as long as the decisions are within laws of the game.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 16:14 GMT)

if u look carefully at the bell incident, you'll notice that bell was running aand as soon as he realised he was gonna be out, he acted as if he was going for tea....and even if that wasnt the case then why did the indians even for it in the first case....

Posted by NairUSA on (August 3, 2011, 16:14 GMT)

How could Flower say with conviction that the Indian team would not have been targeted and hounded by controversy seeking English press and the angry spectators? I think Dhoni took this decision to shield the team from such severe repercussions from English public and media. Physical and psychological safety of the team should be paramount for any team Captain.

Posted by phoenixsteve on (August 3, 2011, 16:14 GMT)

Regarding the Bell fiasco as many have said it didn't change anythiing really? I have always been under the impression that you could only be run out when attempting to add to the score - Bell clearly was not doing this! It concerns me that England seem to be attaching importance to this ridiculous "number 1" tag. Given home advantage SA, SL, Aus, India & Pak would be expected to beat anyone! UDRS (when universally adopted) will make things fairer though but home advantage remiains crucial. So PLEASE England fans don't even mention" number 1 team" as we all know how meaningless it is! Just look at the current "number 1 side"..... I rest my case m'lud! COME ON ENGLAND!!!

Posted by cricketsage on (August 3, 2011, 16:14 GMT)

Actually there was a similar (sort of) incident, in India, involving a bizarre run out of Tendulkar against of all countries Pakistan. Opposing captain Akram refused to call Tendulkar back, stating rightly that they were playing against entire team not an individual.

Needless to say, crowd rioted and had to be booted out of stadium for match to continue. I must praise the captain and administrators for being decisive in that instance. Match continued and to be honest, I cannot recall the result. Nothing much was made of the incident later in series despite the best efforts of TV commentators in particular a certain Mr. Shastri who tried desperately to give it a different colour.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 16:05 GMT)

He starts talking about double standards, and deflects the question by bringing in Tendulkar! How about you talk about the Paul Collingwood incident directly?

Posted by Dr.Vindaloo on (August 3, 2011, 16:04 GMT)

Interesting choice of headline for this article. I can't find anywhere in the article where Flower is accused of double standards, let alone having to deny them. He is simply saying that had Bell not been reprieved it would be at odds with what might happen if Tendulkar was run out in similar circumstances in Mumbai, when he would almost certainly have to be reinstated to prevent a breakdown in law and order. So please stop trying to spin it otherwise. Your spin is even worse than Bhaji's!

Posted by raks_themanager on (August 3, 2011, 16:01 GMT)

He's Tendulkar !!! He would never do that. Simple as it is.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 15:51 GMT)

Dhoni needs to be congratulated for upholding the spirit of the game, and as Strauss pointed out in the post match interview, international captains should try to emulate what Dhoni did in similar circumstances. No team is bigger than the game, and the fabric of sportsmanship should be defended at all costs. Well done Dhoni ... a true gentleman!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 14:47 GMT)

Bell was out, as simple as that. England were looking to get to No. 1 position. Their ambition got the better of them just like Ponting against the Indian when the Aussies were pursuing the record-breaking test winning streak. I am afraid on this occasion, England showed a lack of character just like Ponting when he claimed the catches out of blind enthusiasm.

Posted by nair_ottappalam on (August 3, 2011, 14:38 GMT)

Sorry Flower, I beg to disagree. Dhoni shouldn't have called back Bell. Technically Bell was out and that's it. As the game progressed, the incident was inconsequential to the result of the game. India had already lost meekly. England were in all terms a better side than the current Indian XI. Hope Dhoni hangs up his gloves for the rest of the series. Let Saha keep wickets and any one of Sehwag/Dravid/Tendulkar lead the side. Drop Raina, induct Kohli into the side. Drop Harbhajan and include a fourth seamer, hopefully Zaheer Khan. I still dont understand why Pujara was not included int he touring side.

Posted by K.A.K on (August 3, 2011, 14:30 GMT)

@IKJE - Very well said. Strauss should not have gone to Indian dressing room. At the end of the day, Dhoni and team have raised the bar higher for others to follow!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 14:21 GMT)

so Mr Clive dunn wt do u think that dhoni was not within his rights? why he called bell back?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 14:17 GMT)

It was a shame for the English to beg for pardon. It is not cricket.

Posted by Driftwood49 on (August 3, 2011, 14:14 GMT)

Come on guys , this is NOT about the Rules , NOT about anybody doing double-standards etc etc , this is all about a few sensible cricketers realising that Bells mistake , and he WAS a prat of the 1st order , could cause ructions for years and give the game yet another unwanted blow to its credibility . Luckily , Bells reprieve did not have ANY influence on the outcome of the game . I am reading that Sachin was the instigator of the outbreak of Sense and Sensibilty , he is a true sport , and probably has more reason than any to keep the game going and sporting . God , I love this game , bring on Test 3 , I think India will be a different animal from now on . Thanks .

Posted by cardassian on (August 3, 2011, 14:10 GMT)

Of course England wouldn't of withdrawn their appeal. We've seen cases in the past where the umpires have asked England if they'd like to withdraw an appeal and England said no. Very cheeky of them to approach another team and ask them too, definitely not is the spirit of the game. However the withdrawal of the appeal by MS was in the spirit and good to see this spirit is being kept alive.

Posted by bluecrystal on (August 3, 2011, 14:03 GMT)

Whoever took that decision to withdraw the appeal (Dhoni, Tendulkar or whoever), they did NOT do a good service to the game of cricket. If things are going to be decided off the field arbitrarily and umpires be sidelined like this, what would now stop the Indian board from demanding that this whole match be declared null and void, because it certainly was not in the 'spirit of the game' for the England captain and coach to go into the opposition dressing room and, backed with a rowdy booing crowd, intimidate the Indian team into accepting a decision that suits England. Where does this whole thing stop? Are we going to overturn every umpiring decision after a day's play to suit individual ambitions? Why not just decide the outcomes of matches without even bowling a ball? Strauss, Flower and Bell have opened a very uncomfortable Pandora's Box - and Dhoni et al. helped them!

Posted by at_affu on (August 3, 2011, 14:02 GMT)

Andy Flower : I'm sorry to say this since you are coach of England's Team it doesnt mean that you will support even when its not sportive, According to rules of cricket after the ball is returned to the Umpire he will communicate to the players that "Its Time For Tea". In Bell's run out it clearly shows that it was not a boundary and he should have waited till the ball is returned to the keeper's end where he failed to do so and he was so hungry for that cup of Tea. You U should praise Dhoni's Broad mind that he took back his appeal and gave a life for Ian Bell.

Posted by milesy100 on (August 3, 2011, 13:55 GMT)

Whether or not Bell was out, England deservedly won the game. He added 22 runs which meant India would have only lost by 297 runs. And yes, there would have been a riot if England had run out Tendulkar in similar circumstances in Mumbai. There are too many excuses flying around for defeat. Why can't India admit to being beaten by the much better team.

Posted by mannamvinay on (August 3, 2011, 13:51 GMT)

Comparing Bell's incident against Sachin in same situation is worst argument... Sachin would never be as naive as Bell in first place!

Posted by unlucky11 on (August 3, 2011, 13:46 GMT)

But Indian's always play the game right way.

Posted by unlucky11 on (August 3, 2011, 13:43 GMT)

Mr.Andy Flower We Respect you as a cricketer so please think twice using An Iconic name and a beautiful Brand ambassador of this Game More Over SACHIN RAMESH TENDULKAR would never have done a stupid thing like that.

Posted by Tigersrini on (August 3, 2011, 13:36 GMT)

Every time an incident happens with an English or Aussie cricketer they will explain it away saying the guy was within his rights to do what he did. But if they are on the other side of the fence, they will beg (thats exactly what Flower and Strauss did) and if the opposition accepts and give them the alms (thats wat dhoni gave), they will say it was a gr8 sportsmanship. Hope people remember the John Lever Vaseline incident. These guys explained it away as mistake and since Bedi raised the issue, he lost his County Contract. Another thing, it was not very far back when England and Aussie will make all rules to thwart everyone. Today if BCCI dictates few terms here and there why do they grumble.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 13:31 GMT)

Two things remain worth considering in the aftermath of the above article: 1. An imaginery situation: Sachin Tendulkar, lost in his thoughts, steps out of the crease to do a bit of his ritual pitch tapping with the bat while the ball is bring thrown back to the center. The umpire has not called over yet and the wicket keeper (say Priory) sees the ball in his hand and Sachin out of crease (NOT TRYING TO TAKE A RUN, just tapping the pitch). What would he have done? Comm'n now England... answer with your hand on your heart. 2. Everybody wants a bit of credit for the Bell decision reversal. How about me? I was sitting there in front of my laptop during the tea-break urging Dhoni in the deepest corner of my heart to reverse the decision. Now I have a right, just like Mr. Flower in the article above, to feel entitled to a piece of the cake? Where is my share? Oh. common, Mr. Flower also urged!!

Posted by Himanshu_shs on (August 3, 2011, 13:23 GMT)

How can Flower compare Sachin with Bell. Sachin wud never have done such a silly thing n thts y he the master n Bell just rings bell on the mercy of Indian team.

Posted by batnpad on (August 3, 2011, 13:23 GMT)

@BaigSaqib: Who is SRK and what has he got anything to do with the incident? What was the basis of the request by Strauss/Flower to Dhoni to reinstate Bell? If it is that he is not attempting a run, remove stumping as a mode of dismissal(as someone already pointed correctly). If it is that Bell had made a honest mistake, then Rahul Dravid also made an honest mistake by nicking it to the keeper in the second point.. got my point. A rule is a rule. And, in my opinion I would hold the spirit of cricket dogma against the batsmanwho himself rang the bell for tea and walked out.

Posted by THEGAMEisON on (August 3, 2011, 13:22 GMT)

Andy - Sachin would never do such a stupid thing like BELL

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 13:22 GMT)

Ridiculous of Flower to bring another player by diverting the issue. Bell is not a new capped player for him to be so navie as what he had stated. Further, this rule is not something that every player who is playing international cricket or domestic leage game is not aware of. Everyone as a matter of fact knows it.

Finally I do not see a sitauation where Tendulkar would find himself in such a position and give a stupid reason as calling himself naive. Because Tendulkar would have the commonsense of not leaving the crease. Bell should have been more aware of the situation and he definitely requires to be given out.

Anywayz lets move on

Vijay

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 13:11 GMT)

It was with great surprise when I heard both Dravid and Dhoni compared Baugh stumping of Laxman in the Test match in Dominica with this run out incident with Bell.These incidents are like Night from Day in comparasion. One was an act of cricket brilliance the other was an act of cricket survival ,Not in the spirit of Cricket. As a proud West Indian I take great offence that Indian cricketers would try to malined West Indies cricket to try to save face for their desperate decision . Why is India against the DRS. I predict India will loose this series 4 -0

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 13:06 GMT)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/content/story/495455.html

During Ashes 5th Test, Ian bell played a shot on 67, Australia was convinced he was out, snicko said out, hotspot said not out. but now whole of English management has forgotten that. double standards much.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 13:05 GMT)

Ian Bell was OUT. You dont beg your opponent for mercy after been given legally out. I think he looks even more of a fool after been granted that mercy, than when his original run bluff.

Posted by VenkatBaggu on (August 3, 2011, 13:01 GMT)

That is the batsamn mistake and they gone and ask for reapperance what a shame And crowd boeed Do they have coommonsense. If any indian batsman got out in that fashion. Does strauss agree like that?

No way.............

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:58 GMT)

Flower has triple standards!!

Posted by omairhr on (August 3, 2011, 12:56 GMT)

For those of you who are comparing this to Tendulkar run out against Pakistan, there WAS a huge controversy and everybody (including the Indian greats who are today saying Bell was OUT and should have remained out) said Wasim should have called Tendulkar back but he could not since the new batsman had already played a few deliveries.

Posted by Digimont on (August 3, 2011, 12:54 GMT)

Sitting on the other side of the world and having not actually seen the replay, I still don't get it! Bell hit the ball off the square, left his crease and was run out before he could remake his ground. Horrible error of judgement, sure, but that's his problem. As for England pressuring Dhoni, and Dhoni capitulating, all of the above should be on report for bring the game into dsirepute. Dhoni for disputing the umpires decision. Fletcher should now get even more of a sentence, for further bring the game into disrepute for his comments on what would have happened had the shoe been on the other foot.

What next? Someone will hit the ball straight up in the air and the fielder will let it bounce because the bastman didn't mean it? Give me a break!

Posted by thegoodgame on (August 3, 2011, 12:54 GMT)

Smart move by Andy Flower to give Sachin as a hypothetical example. Though in 21 years of test cricket Sachin has never done anything like this. I thought Bell should have come out and said he made a mistake and deserved to be out - instead of putting the moral responsibility of playing in the 'spirit of the game' on the Indians. That would have been a gentlemanly touch!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:49 GMT)

But we all know that Sachin is different from all other players, and it is not apt to compare the situation with and without him. He has unique status all over the world.

Posted by fguy on (August 3, 2011, 12:48 GMT)

ha!! srt would never, even if he were drugged, ever commit a mistake like that. one even a schoolboy would be embarrased about. & if in some parallel universe that were to occur, he definitely would not go with a begging bowl to the opposition. bell says he THOUGHT it was 4, he THOUGHT the umpire called over; well next time srt or dravid are batting on 100+ and are bowled or caught out they should turrn around to strauss and say that they THOUGHT that the umpire had called "no ball" and demand that strauss withdraw the appeal. worse still, bell says that in "the end both teams did the right thing". excuse me, but what did england do that was the right thing? they didnt do anything besides beg. that is why i think dhoni made a mistake in recalling him. there was no real appreciation of what india did as can be seen from flowers' comments (btw, he avoided answering to the collingwood-elliot query). india have never been the beneficiary of a gesture like that nor are they going to ever

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:46 GMT)

sachin would have chosen togo to the pavillion at that moment only without thinking about anything... unlike Bell....

flower is mad... eng and aus cricketers r selfish and it is proved now...

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:44 GMT)

i just want to remind you when steve harmison threw the ball to Inzimam . He was standing in his crease. he just tried to avoid the ball and got out by the same bunch of people who are now talking about sportsmen spirit. Bell was out no doubt . everyone gets punishment if he makes mistake than why not Mr. Bell. Rules should be the supreme.

Posted by serious-am-i on (August 3, 2011, 12:39 GMT)

I begin to hate Andy Flower by the day. I am fed up of his silly mind games. First, he denied Monty bowling to Sachin, then went on to make a fuss on DRS when the issue was already settled and nothing could be done for the series and now this. Andy, if u had done the same to Sachin not just in Mumbai but any part of India, u will no longer be playing a match in India, that's how simple it is. Do not compare Bell with Sachin, if Sachin was out in the same fashion no Indian player or coach would go to opposition dressing room to request for a change remember that. Double Standards ? Swann who hits the stumps get away with a warning while a bowler who argues (PK) gets penalty with a warning. Way to go perfect spirit of the game ain't it.

Posted by pr3m on (August 3, 2011, 12:37 GMT)

Bell is to England what Sachin is to India? Hasn't Sachin been given out LBW when he got hit on the helmet off McGrath? Did the umpire or McGrath face anything untoward in their next tour of India? Lastly, this would never have happened to Sachin cos he's not a woozy idiot. Why didn't Flower talk about when England didn't withdraw the appeal and how that's a double standard?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:12 GMT)

Sachin will not be as silly as in this incident:)

Posted by CHARLA on (August 3, 2011, 12:09 GMT)

I wonder why flower immediately talks of SACHIN.there was booing in trentbridge too,to start with.the english later on switched to applauding--is this sportsmanship.if so why the booing to start with.the previous comments have brought out the real "SPIRIT"of the ENGLISHMEN.intelligent people will come to their conclusions.meanwhile,the flowers etc will do well not to go overboard.every day is not sunday!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 12:06 GMT)

Blah Blah Blah, some of these comments are hilarious. Well what MR. Dhoni did was good, and what Mr. Flower and Strauss did, was something any captain or coach would have done. Yes it has been on CNN has Tendulkar been given out in that fashion, and the whole BCCI machine would have made sure that the issue gets a lime light (are they doing any different right now?) The point is, it is all part of the game, Spirit of Cricket etc. comes second. I donno if anyone has noticed the supportive rant by the very graceful Mr. Gavaskar, all while the decision stood, it was funny how his tone and direction changed, after issue got resolved. Anyways, Has India would have won, given Bell was out then? NO, Has the margin of victory for England been any lesser? Heck NO. The point is, India lost, and the BCCI needs to rectify all the selection and strategy mistakes, rather than covering the issues with Spirit of Game slogan. Except for Dravid, all oldies can take a rest and give way for young guns!

Posted by Herath-UK on (August 3, 2011, 12:06 GMT)

I'm not sure whether India did right here;they should have stuck to their guns because this looks like coping out to pressure outside the cricket field.Cricket integrity got a blemish here.In fact with such power in the hands,India should have set an example here. Ranil Herath -Kent

Posted by cricketrob on (August 3, 2011, 11:59 GMT)

I realise that it's not a run out by Strauss in the 2009 Ashes allow Haddin to be changed after the team sheets were presented. As Hadding had broken his finger. England would have really wanted to regain the Ashes but had the decency to allowed Australia to play a full strenght team. I don't think anyone can say how they would have reacted to the Bell- run out unless in that position. Only how they would liked to have acted.

Posted by stormy16 on (August 3, 2011, 11:56 GMT)

My comment is for the incident in isolation and its nothing to do with the result or Sachin or IPL. My call is Bell was caught going for a thrid run but then was too far down to turn around and pretended he was going for tea. Its based on the fact he was seen on camera (sky telecast) stating the umpiore called 'tea' but that wasnt true. An umpire cannot call tea and then given someone out! If bell was naive as he now claims what was he doing stating the umpire called tea and thats on camera.

Posted by QuikNik on (August 3, 2011, 11:49 GMT)

Flower is quite right in saying that if it was Sachin instead of Bell in this incident, it would have been a totally different Scenario. But I doubt it will happen, a player like Sachin would never make such a petty error.

Posted by krv954 on (August 3, 2011, 11:41 GMT)

If England is worried about doing the right thing, why didn't they do the right thing

1) During the England Pakistan Faisalabad test in 2005 when Inzamam was run out by Steve Harmison trying to avoid the throw from the bowler 2) Why didn't they recall Elliott when he collided with Sidebottom.

Posted by Tiptop32 on (August 3, 2011, 11:38 GMT)

I wish Pakistan would have withdrawn appeal for Sachin run out in the test match played at Kolkata. It was an unfair run-out since the batsman was obstructed by the fielder. Wasim Akram should have shown this maturity and grace during that appeal. Now the same loser is coaching KKR and a commentator for India matches. India can lose or win but India will stand tall in these gestures. What a sore loser Akram is, even though he is one of my favourite bowlers.

Posted by Marcio on (August 3, 2011, 11:36 GMT)

OK India, you win. You got thrashed, but you are morally superior and the "evil other" cheated. Feel better now? Am I the only one that sees this silly pattern recurring in Indian cricket when they lose?

Posted by Stark62 on (August 3, 2011, 11:26 GMT)

It was out, it's as simple as that!

Bell should waited for the ump to call tea and remove the bails like Morgan did. It's strange because I remember Harmison throwing the ball at the wickets and it was hitting Inzi's body but Inzi defended it with his bat and Eng appealed which, meant Inzi had to go.

Where was the spirit of the game back then?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 11:25 GMT)

IKJE nailed it. I don't know what England was trying to prove- they were in control and all it could possibly do was paint them in a bad light.

Posted by Spirit.of.Cricket on (August 3, 2011, 11:22 GMT)

You call this England team as World No.1 team. No way. no sportmanship. no morals. I say flower is simply a bad coach.

Posted by karthikfromchennai on (August 3, 2011, 11:03 GMT)

Though Eng inveted the game, Cricket can survive without Eng...but cant imagine cricket without India.

Posted by karthikfromchennai on (August 3, 2011, 11:01 GMT)

ECB is no BCCI...and Ian is no Sachin...long way to go ECB, perhaps its impossible for ECB or Ian Bell to become like BCCI or Sachin...whether Ind loses or wins, the game needs Indian support to survive.

Posted by rkannancrown on (August 3, 2011, 10:59 GMT)

If I remember correctly, the Kalicharan incident involved Kallicharan being blocked by an English cricketer. In this case, Bell clearly started runninf for the fourth run and Morgan was clearly saying "No". It was clearly a run out due to miscommunication between the batsmen - an occurance which is not unusual in cricket. Bell deserves an Oscar for his acting. Flower's comments are foolish reflecting a complete lack of understanding about Indian fans who would never have booed an opposition team for a legitimate wicket. The question was not how many runs Bell made but the Indian team was rattled that the game was lost then. If Flower wants to comment, why did his team not call back Bhajji who was clearly given out wrongly ? Gavaskar hit the nail on the head by saying England & Australia have double standards when it comes to the spirit of the game.

Posted by Jim1207 on (August 3, 2011, 10:48 GMT)

GlinnMcgraw: England was only 251 for 3 at that time, where when we added that negligible 22 runs, it was around 335. That's what cricket is about. It's not the game of what individual adds, but what partnerships they add. If England thinks it is negligible now, why did they ask to "reconsider the appeal"? Wishful justice? In which match out of 2000 tests, has it happened and obliged by opposition team? Learn to appreciate others.

Posted by Clive_Dunn on (August 3, 2011, 10:45 GMT)

Not sure the Graeme Smith runner debate is a very apt one. Ultimately Smith's lack of fitness caused that, and Strauss was well within his rights to deny a runner. If he'd pulled a muscle it would be a different issue under the laws at the time, and the change in laws seems to back up Strauss' view. Also I can't say this is Flowers best interview, a "it would a have been worse in India" defense doesn't really cut if for me. Much better to have just praised the Indian team for their good sportsmanship and moved on - it didn't have any meaningful impact on the game and in retrospect I'm glad it didn't as it was Bell being an idiot rather than India enforcing a little known rule or breaking an established convention.

Posted by Wharfeseamer on (August 3, 2011, 10:41 GMT)

As an England fan...

1. Bell was out. There was no 'sharp practice' by India and it is not India's fault that Bell forgot the laws and assumed play was dead. The laws are there to create a framework for the game and be upheld, not interpreted to suit. 2. Flower and Strauss had absolutely NO business going to the Indian dressing room. That action was very poor and they deserved a flea in the ear. 3. India, via Dhoni, has the right to withdraw its appeal. I wouldn't have done so but it is up to them. 4. The umpires did everything correctly. 5. To bring in some hypothetical scenario involving another player, as Flower has done, is disingenuous and immaterial.

Posted by hassi9876 on (August 3, 2011, 10:39 GMT)

Every1 is complainin abt he bell runout....murali ws run out by newzelanders wen he walked to congratulate sanga fr his doubl hundred...sl eventually went on to lose th match..nt so long ago...where ws the fair play and the gentlemans game then

Posted by oliverps on (August 3, 2011, 10:39 GMT)

A lot has been said on here and elsewhere about Bell being out under the Laws. Desmond Haynes was given not out by the umpires in Barbados in 1994 in almost exactly the same circumstances.

Delboy - You recall wrong. Collingwood gave an apology after the match and said almost exactly the same as Dhoni, that after they had thought about it outside the arena it didn't seem right. The Sidebottom/Elliott incident was different anyway. The match was still in play. The ball is dead until the bowler starts his run up for the next ball. The Mukund/Bell and Grieg/Kalicharan incident before had extended intervals after them. A time for reflection.

Harshad K Trivedi - see above The players probably didn't know the circumstances of Harbajan's LBW before the ball was back in play.

Aaamsaasza Nothing to do with the ICC. The series and rules that govern it are decided bilaterally between the ECB and BCCI. Also the Laws of Cricket are governed by the MCC.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:37 GMT)

Dear @ MyTom the article here is abt flower's comments & spirit of the game. As for appreciation, england played fantastic cricket & deservingly won. Bell's run out/getting out later would'nt matter in the final context of the game. probably u got nostalgic with this victory & could'nt read our words of appreciation.

Posted by Truemans_Ghost on (August 3, 2011, 10:35 GMT)

Isn't he really just echoing what MS Dhoni said?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:34 GMT)

@ZackH: Professionals woud not go to opposite captain like kids who r not even going to kindergardens and say please daddy let the poor kid play...

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:30 GMT)

i dont know what's the fuss all about. as per rules bell was out. whether attempting 2 run or not is not an issue. if a batsman standing out of the crease, misses the ball for the keeper to stump him, he cant claim i was not attempting a run/bye. As former english cricketers said, they would'nt have reversed the decision if they were in dhoni's shoes. So its clear, dhoni & co showed good spirit which only few captains can replicate.rules.Why dint strauss recall bhajji when he clearly inside-edged the ball, but was still given lbw enabling broad 2 get a dubious hat-trick.Give credit where it 's due Mr zach H. u too seem 2 b naive to cricket.

Posted by anuAddict on (August 3, 2011, 10:29 GMT)

First of all well played England, congratulations and yes, the decision made no difference to the outcome. Now to the issue of spirit, I must confess that there is a chance that Bell may not have made it back to the crease and he made a conscious decision to keep walking on. Generally, his post match comments where he blatantly expects to have been reprieved give it away for me. Also, I think there are double standards here since Strauss and Andy Flower chose to disallow Monty to bowl to Sachin in nets. To add to it, England has no history of benevolence to uphold spirit of the game, no issues there since they are a professional side ruthlessly going for a win, but then don't expect others to tow the line.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:24 GMT)

Well, England invented Cricket. They deserve the "special" pardons. PK was fined for argueing with the umpire. Swann hitting the wickets with his feet, hey he was just having fun. The white Master rules.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:23 GMT)

India don't deserve to be no. 1 test team.......after loosing first two tests dhoni is now giving childish excuses that india is not well prepared bcoz of lots of cricket in the recent past...but the truth is that the indian players only run for the money....to represent the country is not on there priority list...for such an important tour none of the players should be involved in IPL...n the fact is that dhoni should accept and appreciate that the england palyed much better cricket than india n they are the deserving winners...stop giving stupid excuses MS...

Posted by AlanHarrison on (August 3, 2011, 10:23 GMT)

And yes, I agree with those who suspect that if the roles had been reversed England would have hesitated to withdraw the appeal. There is a striking contrast at this time between India withdrawing this appeal, and Broad, encouraged by an ungracious recent former England captain, fingering the edge of Laxman's bat in search of vasoline. Also don't forget Bell's reluctance to walk in the last Ashes test at Sydney. As for Flower's and expat123's suggestion that a similar run out of Tendulkar would cause an international incident, consider the good grace with which Tendulkar took his controversial run out in the 1998 India v Pakistan test, at Eden Gardens (see http://www.espncricinfo.com/columns/content/story/226675.html). No petitioning for reinstatement from Tendulkar then ...

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:17 GMT)

Chanderpaul to Laxman, OUT, 83.5 kph, VVS has managed to get stumped after leaving a wide delivery, fancy that for a freakish dismissal, he had just ambled back after leaving the ball and the back foot was in the air for just an instant, just an instant, and that was enough for an alert Baugh to whip off the bails, Laxman looked surprised when West Indies appealed and even more so when the third umpire ruled him out, Chanders is mobbed by his team-mates, he is grinning broadly, 9th wicket in 133 Tests, he'll take it

VVS Laxman st †Baugh b Chanderpaul 56 (214m 129b 3x4 0x6) SR: 43.41

Posted by Mutukisna on (August 3, 2011, 10:14 GMT)

Yes, if Tendulkar was given out under similar circumstances there would have been a diplomatic incident followed by a cancellation of the tour. The Indian fans have got something to moan about, apart from the dismal performance of their so called World No 1 Team. So far they have fared even worse than Sri Lanka who apart from one disastrous last session at Cardiff could have emerged with a drawn series. Anyway all credit to MS Dhoni, the right decision was made. But, welcome to the new concept of the "Dressing Room Appeal". And this will not be possible to apply unless it occurs on the last ball of a session. So now we can foresee a further development of this new concept, in that the Batting Team Captain and Coach will be lying in wait and walking out on to the field to make an appeal to the Fielding Captain to withdraw his appeal. HOW's THAT!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:10 GMT)

What a justification Mr. Flower is giving for begging! There have been numerous cases in history where players were tragically run out for their foolishness, but they did not go begging to the captain of opposition for saving their wicket.They accepted it gracefully. This incident has reflected the true character of the English players.Ironically they are still justifying their action. By the way, how many time in history, has an English team withdrawn an appeal on knowing that batsman was actually not out?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 10:04 GMT)

tendulkar is not stupid like bell to move out of his crease before the ball is dead. Bottom line Bell forgot the rules. If you can remember, something like this happened with sangakara and sehwag and no one complained.

Posted by ashqarmahi on (August 3, 2011, 10:03 GMT)

To dearest ANDY FLOWER,

wheather it good, bad, ugly, truth, lie,....please keep TENDULKAR out of everything......He is the perfect role model for everything in cricket(also as a human being)......

Thank you very much

A Cricket Fan....

Posted by Eskay13 on (August 3, 2011, 10:00 GMT)

I think this kind of arrogance from Andy Flower is out of order. It is completely inappropriate to hypothesize what might have happened IF SRT had been subjected to a similar dismissal (particularly given there is a well-documented incident involving an SRT dismissal against Pakistan in the past where there was neither an inclination to re-consider the decision nor an "international incident". On the one side we have the Indian players justifying the move to call Bell back by stating that a dismissal wouldn't have felt right. I can't re-call anyone in the Indian team or managment speculating on whether or not England would have reciprocated to such a gesture. If you are discussing the spirit of cricket, that is irrelevant. Andy Flower's attempt to show that his team was right in what they did just leaves a bad taste, particularly given the gracious approach skipper Strauss has taken.

Posted by nimal183 on (August 3, 2011, 9:59 GMT)

I cannot believe flower brink Tendulkar into this!!!! He is not that stupid to wonder around the pitch while the ball is still on play!!! Why cant they just accept bell was out and they begged the indians to bring him back to the crease!! By law Bell was out they should have accept that in the first place...

Posted by AlanHarrison on (August 3, 2011, 9:59 GMT)

I think England would probably have won the match anyway, even without the reprieve, but I think it is too simplistic to suggest the reprieve only altered the result by 22 runs. England went into tea four wickets down and with a lead of only about 170, with Trott injured. Morgan had about 12 not out at that stage and was under pressure for his place after a sequence of low scores. I really don't believe Morgan, and by extension Prior, Bresnan and Broad, would have batted so audaciously in the rest of that innings if they had been effectively 170 for 5 or 6. I also think India were very low-key in the field in the session after Bell's reprieve, and I don't think India would have batted as ineptly as they did in the 4th innings if they had been chasing a gettable 225-250 instead of an impossible 470. I think that last session on day four after Bell's reprieve was crucial, and I think Bell's reprieve significantly affected the margin of victory, although not the result.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:54 GMT)

being an indian i can tell u that first of all tendulkar would have not done this also also any school boy in india would also not do this we take care before leaving crease and england are developing the attidue of a no1 side like west indies and australia of past - ruthless agreesive and un sportsman like spirit which we all know aussies were and now eng not sure of sportsmanship of wi of 70s and 80s as dint see them but they were ruthless agressive and maybe un sportsman like india were neither they were neither ruthless neither agreesive which i dint like but they had and they have sportsman spirit which makes us extremely proud and respecting the game is very imp

Posted by kabe_ag7 on (August 3, 2011, 9:50 GMT)

After Strauss had recalled Angelo Matthews, Flower had said that he didn't like it and that he wouldn't have recalled the batsman. So Flower, at least, definitely is guilty of double standards here. "If an England side had done that in Mumbai [against Tendulkar], I think there would have been a proper international incident on the cards." - So he took his perceived imagined reaction of Indian crowd into account to arrive at his decision of asking Dhoni to recall Bell. That's some twisted logic. In fact, crowd did throw a tantrum at Kolkata when Sachin was runout even more unfortunately. The Indian captain didn't go asking for his recall. Neither was it an 'international incident'. For all the 'sportsmanship' shown by Dhoni Flower has only patronised the Indians by that remark. Well done.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:42 GMT)

the fact that flower resorts to naming Tendulkar instead of just saying something simple like"if any Indian batsman had been given out that way" shows that he does feel a little like they got away with a little bit of cheek. What they did while being within the laws of the game was poor gamesmanship , but then again they are a winning side and will do what it takes even bending(not breaking ) laws to suit them..the indian should prob take a leaf outta their book !

Posted by Samdanh on (August 3, 2011, 9:40 GMT)

Agree with Flower. The appeal betrayed a sense of desperation and was as ugly as any other controversial incidents of the past in Cricket. Good that it was settled amicably. If we as Indians and anyone in BCCI or among the players think that withdrawals of the appeal led to the defeat, then our focus to correct the real problems with the team and system is highly ill-directed

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:34 GMT)

Geneally people tend to be lawyers when the blame is on themselves and they act as judges when the blame is on other person..

Flower & Strauss are no exception..!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:34 GMT)

I dont knw wat to say but one thing for sure..had it been Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar..he is one player who has more consiouns abt the game bein played and wats happenin arnd himm. nd i do believe..tat if it was him..he wud have never left the crease...untill umpires called for it!!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:29 GMT)

I think its the first time ever English are on the verge of reaching.. I can understand them for being such big loud mouths.. Indians are over reactive,, English are over excited..

Posted by coatsie89 on (August 3, 2011, 9:28 GMT)

here we go, mentioning the harbajhan LBW. Fact is, that was an umpire mistake. Ian Bell was quite obviously not attempting a run and therefore the correct decision was made. It is an absolute disgrace that all the Indian fans on here are slamming Andy Flower etc when they know full well that had this happened to Sachin, there would be uproar. Like everyone else on here has said, you lot got smashed by over 300 runs. The 20 that Bell scored made no difference but Dhoni saved face by retracting the appeal. Had England only been 50 in front when the incident happened, Dhoni wouldn't have recalled Bell. The fact that the game was already gone gave him an opportunity to show sportsmanship for once. Where is the 'Well done England' from the Indian team??? Completely outplayed and weren't expecting it and unless India start showing some passion, this will become more embarrassing for them. Like watching Australia of early 2000s play Zimbabwe of today at the moment. At least 1 team turned up!

Posted by Yabba on (August 3, 2011, 9:27 GMT)

Reading the comments here from Indian fans, you'd believe that Flower reinstated Bell rather than a unanimous decision being made by the Indian team, led by the legend Tendulkar, to do so...

Posted by Chris_P on (August 3, 2011, 9:24 GMT)

If the umpres have concerns about the sportmansship of dismissals, they usually ask the Captain to reconsider. But for the opposing Captain and Coach? No Andy, you have done a great job with this side and you were an extraordinary cricketer, but this time, you are dead set wrong. Umpires are there to adjudicate, your job is to coach, Strauss to captain, bat, plan and offer encouragement to his team. Nowhere is set that they take on the duties of umpires. This is not an afternoon tea party, Bell would have truly learnt his lesson well had he been given rightfully out.

Posted by trenta01 on (August 3, 2011, 9:23 GMT)

Haven't India threatened to go home before when things have gone against them? Reverse the situation and they would be crying foul and doing the same, had no bearing on the result but as usual when they are being smashed most of the fans look for some excuse other than to say we have been clearly outplayed.

Posted by TheDurbanTrundler on (August 3, 2011, 9:20 GMT)

@Catsg - Do you not see the irony in your post? In two sentences: "England in a similar situation would not have done what indians did..... Bringing in a hypothetical situation into this debate is just not giving the due credit to the indians". You did exactly what you accuse Andy of doing! This situation had no bearing on the result. India came out with their reputation enhanced, Bell looked like a idiot and Strauss and Flower a bit like spoilt kids. Move on.

Posted by criclover_at_cricinfo on (August 3, 2011, 9:18 GMT)

I think indians were set to loose this match in any case, this has just given them reason to dispute this well deserved victory by England. As far as spirit of game is concerned, please recall Pakistan vs India test match in Kolkata, where india was about to loose and in the end, game can only be concluded after police intervention and crowd was forced to leave the ground. Oh yeah and remember Srikanth incident against Pakistan where he got out, he started crying and whining, Pakistan captain Imran Khan got him back, and on the very next ball he was again out.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:17 GMT)

This has been very fortuitous because the right decision was made, and as events transpired it had aboslutely no effect whatever on the outcome of the game. If bell had gone on to make 275, and then the massive Indian batting lineup had all come to the party and ended up losing by 50 runs, that would have been rather unfortunate.

Posted by Chapelau on (August 3, 2011, 9:11 GMT)

Can't believe this conversation is still going on. Get a life and move on... the result was not affected and heat of the moment situations will always arise in professional sport and people will make mistakes. It is clear Bell was not running a fourth - everyone else said that. As to Tendulkar not making mistakes - I guess he must have got a fly in his eye when he forgot to play the ball he got out to!!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 9:10 GMT)

hahaha this is absurd that Flower thinks Sachin would ever get run out in that schoolboy fashion.

Posted by CSreekumar on (August 3, 2011, 9:00 GMT)

Tendulkar himself let Bell to play and Andy should have appreciated the attitude. Poor comparisons from Andy,

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:57 GMT)

Recalling Bell was a wise decision..but i cant understand why every1 starts pulling tendulkar's name into everything...that person is one of the most humble cricketers we have...have any1 ever seen him sledging,resenting any umpire's decision or any sort of bad behaviour on or off the field??? A player of his status deserves respect...if you love cricket learn to respect the ones who have contributed so much for the game...stop comparing his stats wid others...stop saying things about him...the likes of warne,lara,Mcgrath has respect for him...we shud have too

Posted by CSreekumar on (August 3, 2011, 8:56 GMT)

Tendulkar himself let Bell to play and Andy should have appreciated the attitude. Poor comparisons from Andy,

Posted by indiaprem on (August 3, 2011, 8:52 GMT)

"England's coach, Andy Flower, believes his team was right to ask India to rethink their controversial run-out of Ian Bell at Trent Bridge, adding that it would have caused an "international incident" had Sachin Tendulkar been dismissed in a similarly bizarre fashion". U r kidding Mr. Flower, Sachin wouldn't have run in his dreams before umpires call it a break. Keep in mind that you are comparing a 'Disciplined Perfectionist' to Bell, your little Bell. Dont ever take that name. If you watch the replay closely Bell actually ran till mid-pitch before the ball arrived to Dhoni, if you watch Morgan, he signaled no to Bell. And after that Bell just walked knowing that he has committed a mistake, giving an innocent face as if he hasn't done anything. To conclude my views Bell honestly knows that he was OUT, Morgan is the best man to tell the truth, if someone can ask Morgan, he will tell that its OUT and he knows that Bell ran not walked as claimed by this Englishmen. Comments invited.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:51 GMT)

I do not know why the BEll incident is creating so much furrore! Take a breaj guys! At the end of the day, its done and gone, and lets take the positives. If the current leaders of cricket can pull off something so wonderful, then isnt it welcome after the type of Australian brash (win at all costs) dominance? Its great for cricket! Lets keep it to that. And Bell's inning deserved a proper dismissal, which he had. End of discussion. Lets hope that there is more fight and both the tests left produce results.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:51 GMT)

Poor Flower : Do not create a question and answer by yourself? And to add pity, you are judging that answer by yourself. Oh... Poor Andy... Sachin is different. Do not divert the situation by creating this. We all know what you are doing at the moment. You have no right to ask Indian team to recall.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:51 GMT)

I certainly don't think that Sachin would have shown the same lack of respect for the game's rules as Bell did. He (Sachin) would have checked with the umpires that the ball was dead or waited for the signal. I think that India were gracious to the point of excess in withdrawing their appeal. The Aussies, to take a random example, would have responded to Flower and Strauss with "surely you're joking mate!"

Posted by chin-music on (August 3, 2011, 8:48 GMT)

@mytom : I'm Indian & quite happy to say 'Well played, England, you deserve the victory". Going further - not only is this English team playing better cricket in the current series, any unbiased reading of results over the last 2 years would show that this English team has the best overall test match results, especially in tough away tours like Aus/SA. Having said that - don't expect Indian fans (esp. the internet variety!) to concede that fact, since whining / excuse making/ disparaging opponents are forms of "supporting" the team in their book.

Posted by ms_cricketer on (August 3, 2011, 8:46 GMT)

shame on england. How can their captain and coach go the indian camp and try to reverse the decision? It is childness, do captains go to reverse a decision if someone inside edges and is lbw? no it part of the game, and in this case bell made a silly mistake. And why would you even bring tendulkar into this, you cant compare the two, and when tendulkar was run out against akthar there was no incident so im sorry mr flower, but this not right to say.

Posted by Thyagu5432 on (August 3, 2011, 8:46 GMT)

When Bell was apperently run out, India were already down and out. However, having stuck to his appeal before dispersing for tea, what made them change their mind? May be, they still wanted to hog the limelight while being beaten badly by England. No matter what, the attention still remains on the loss. Spirit of cricket is not just in recalling somebody back but it is actually to fight back and show what we are really made of. I hope Dhoni and co do exactly that in the next two tests.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:45 GMT)

let me ask 1 question? if it was RICKY PONTING? would he ever called IAN BELL back to the crease. he would have shut the door on the faces of andrew strauss & flower wen they approached him in the dressing room. so i believe the game would have changed a lot if BELL was out that time....May be England bundled out for 300-320.

Posted by aalkool on (August 3, 2011, 8:43 GMT)

Who does this guy think he is fooling by trying to deflect attention? He very clearly applies the laws differently for his players and players from the opposition. His comments post the Angelo Mathews incident and his actions on Sunday demonstrate that this man himself personifies double standards. Get off you high horse, Andy.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:34 GMT)

@ GlinMgraw, well said. And for many others it's ridiculous to say that MSD is that and this. It's like when a fielder wobbles a sitter and then recovers to make it in the rebound. All will then spaek about how well he recovered and his acrobats forgetting the fact it is the same guy who made the mess out of the sitter. Had he caught it simply first time around no need for rebounds, acrobats & heroics. Same here had MS just left for TEA like his fellow Dravid who was carrying two head gears towards the dressing room from slips when MSD removed the bails no heroics. You make a mistake then you recover how can you be called a HERO??? And it's just true how the same Indian team, BCCI & Fans would have reacted had it happen on an Indian batter? Just go back to your feelings of SRT's runout in Asian Test Championship match Vs Pakistan. It's self explanatory.

Posted by getsetgopk on (August 3, 2011, 8:28 GMT)

Run out or no Run out this beating for india was on the cards for a long long time now and they finally got it from the ruthless English attack

Posted by prozak on (August 3, 2011, 8:22 GMT)

There is no spirit of the game from england. How many times do england batsmen stand their ground for a catch that was close to the ground? They know the review favours the batsman. Australia has on many occassions tried to formalise "spirit of the game" agreements with England and they have always refused.

Posted by ThKhan on (August 3, 2011, 8:17 GMT)

Anyway, please do not comment about Umpires, because it is India itself who do not want UDRS for LBWs in this series. So, if u fight against technology and these things, then it is good if u are paying price for this !!! I hope India will learn from this and won't be arrogant on not using UDRS for coming series against Australia later this year.

Posted by ramli on (August 3, 2011, 8:12 GMT)

Mohammed Harris Noon - there is a difference between Broad's hatrick and Harbhajan's. In Broad's case, the appeal was not legitimate. Bat-pad is NOT OUT at anytime, with or without DRS. If Engalnd team played with the so-called not-so-double standard spirit of the game, they could have withdrawn the appeal. Every English player knew it was bat-pad. But in Harbajan's hatrick, the appeal was legitimate, no bat involved. It boiled down to interpretation of umpire and he decided it was OUT. Don't say something just to oppose India and Indians. In both instances, both players deserved a hatrick and they got it.

Posted by Fauzer on (August 3, 2011, 8:08 GMT)

If MS had withdrawn the appeal straight away, then that is his prerogative. But its a pretty lowly thing to beg to be re-instated, after Bell was ruled out, quite correctly. Worse is for Andy Flower to compare it to a non existent, hypothetical scenario and drag Sachin into it.

Part of the game is being alert and always keeping an 'eye on the ball'. Like a few others have commented here, you dont' have to attempt a run to be run out. What is the justification in stumping people out then?? That IS the game of cricket for you, you just have to stay in the crease until the ball is dead.

Last year I was giving my 2 sons and their friends some training, I used some strong words to drill into them that they have to be cricket smart, and not wander off the crease and get run out.

England should have just taken it on the chin and moved on.

Posted by nav84 on (August 3, 2011, 8:07 GMT)

i always believed english never deserved any such sporting gestures and after reading flower's and english fans' comments, i believe it even more. for all those who think india wld hv made a huge uproar about it, IF, it wld hv hpnd with any of its players, u need to watch more cricket. VVS Laxman was stumped out in similar circumstances in recently concluded WI series, wen he just clumsily lifted his foot to relax. Indian neither did go n beg to Sammy nor did they create an ruckus about it. Any1 of u does nt even knw about the incident is a proof in itself. And yes, tendulkar, has been dismissed in this fashion, that too against arch rival pakistan(99). unlike bell tendulkat was nt at fault at all. indians accepted the decision. crowd did mk sum noise, bt tendulkar himself came out of dressing room to calm them down, nd that was it. seriously, even aftr winning, u guys for some reason r so jealous o indian cricket, that u will find some thing or other to criticize them.God help u guys.

Posted by madras_boy on (August 3, 2011, 8:05 GMT)

Comeon Andy, dont compare Tendulkar to Bell. We all know that the empty vessels make noise ! No one have the right to say that the run out would have no impact. What if prior and bresnan would have got out as soon as bell is run-out. So, stop making un-necessary comments and lets get ready for edgbaston again in the spirit of the game.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:05 GMT)

@ZackH... you are right, first of all they sholdnt have appealed and the way praveen took the ball and throwed back , it was like its a four...

Posted by othello22 on (August 3, 2011, 8:02 GMT)

Good point Andy. Things would be a bit different if it happened to their almighty batting god, would they? There would be a third world war if Sachin Tendulkar were given out under these circumstances. Credit to Dhoni for seeing sense and withdrawing the appeal, but seriously if this guy was the pure and ultimate personification of the great cricketing spirit as all these Indian supporters here seem to be claiming, wouldn't he have brought all this to the fore on the field and cancelled the appeal in the first place? The umpires supposedly asked him twice if he was happy to claim the wicket, and he went ahead with it without hesitiation. Only when faced with the potential uproar and controversy did he change his mind. India's goose is cooked, they are charlatans and pretenders and the worst number 1 side I have ever seen. As much as I hate the Poms, it will be a pleasure to see India's coveted number 1 title stripped from them and handed to a team who actually deserve it.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 8:00 GMT)

just becasue Sachin is great player , he cant be the book of cricket... I am wondering how come some of the INdian fans are talking about Andy , saying that he is degrading sachin,, No player is above cricket... everyone are equal... Ppl are talking as if sachin has never done mistakes, he is also human being guys.. I am a big sachin fan, but when something is wrong , its wrong regardless of the person...

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:58 GMT)

Poor statement from Andy. Bell admitted his mistake. Sachin will never do such mistakes.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:57 GMT)

Why sachin cant do this kind of mistake? He also cricketer. Selector must think and remove dhoni from test cricket....

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:56 GMT)

India should focused the upcoming IPL ...

Posted by KingofRedLions on (August 3, 2011, 7:54 GMT)

This decision added a truly massive 22 runs to England's total. Seriously, this, in terms of changing the course of the game, is a non-issue.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:53 GMT)

Blah! Blah! Blah I am sick and tired of people making a big deal out of the run out. It's over. Move on.

Posted by srt_rsd_ind_fan on (August 3, 2011, 7:50 GMT)

Well, I agree that BELL was out as per laws. But indians showed good heart and once again showed world how spirit of cricket should be kept alive. hats off to Sachin, MSD and team. If England talks so much of 'spirit', Bell/Strauss/Flower should not have approached team in first place. Even if indians have decided to recall, England team should have said ' No thank you, Bell is OUT as per laws"... that would have been great!!!

Posted by ZackH on (August 3, 2011, 7:49 GMT)

@DrGuru, exactly, these guys are supposedly professionals and not kindergarten boys. But professionals wouldn't have appealed for such an incident in the first place. Its just because Dhoni is leading a bunch of kindergarten boys along himself he appealed. Exactly acting like infants. ---- "Mommy! tell him to get OUT!"

Posted by RBM60 on (August 3, 2011, 7:49 GMT)

Watching the live telecast and it was clear that Bell was running for his fourth run. You can watch Morgan waving at him to stop. Once Bell realises that he has made an error, he tries to show that he had run upto the non-stikers end, assuming it was tea. I wonder why some commentators like Ganguly and Akram not see this for what it is. As for the decision by the Indian team. Kudos for playing the game in this manner, and shame to Bell! But like others have said, a dangerous precedent has been set. We might now find captains walking onto the field asking for an appeal review (e.g. in edged lbw decisions - like the Harbhajan one) We all know which was the first team to use Vaseline on the field.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:48 GMT)

Tendulkar had faced a similar kind of situation against Pakistan , when he crashed into shoaib akhtar and was run out and India lost the match , Pakistan didn't consider the suggestion from the umpire to consider there appeal , there was a bit bit of commotion in the stadium after that, but no international catastrophe , IMO flower is over reacting.

Posted by Amol_Ind_SA on (August 3, 2011, 7:43 GMT)

Flower's double standard comment was pretty UNGRATEFUL, LAUGHABLE and IMMATURE considering: 1. Technically Bell was actually out. 2. The 'Sachin plus Indian public backlash' scenario that Flower is trying to paint is HYPOTHETICAL/BIASED and all the more so when he forgot that it was the INDIAN captain that recalled Bell gracefully back.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:37 GMT)

For funky flower: How you thought that Sachin can do such kind of mistakes which bell did. Sachin knows the Dos & donts fo cricket so stop thinking such a fool thing about him & give a lesson to your pupils about the c of cricket. for sachin he is a book himself of cricket.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:37 GMT)

the fact is that india doesnt deserve to be no. 1 in test cricket and we indians must have to digest the truth.

Posted by Mytom on (August 3, 2011, 7:34 GMT)

I see that the Indian fans need to have something new to moan about now. At the end of the day the decision had absolutely no impact on the game, England were already battering India into submission at this stage. Flower is not comparing Bell to Tendulkar, he is only asking a hypothetical question. I dread to think of the amount of comments there would on here had it indeed happened to Sachin. Get a grip people, still not sure have I heard any of the Indian team just say 'Well Played England, you deserve the victory' - quite easy to say really or are they just a little too big for that?

Posted by Catsg on (August 3, 2011, 7:32 GMT)

Andy, Sachin did not leave the crease before the ball is dead and neither did this happen in India. Face the fact mate, this is double standards and the indian team were gracious enough to withdraw the appeal. England in a similar situation would not have done what indians did and be man enough to accept that! Bringing in a hypothetical situation into this debate is just not giving the due credit to the indians. PERIOD.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:26 GMT)

No Ifs and No Buts. Flower and Strauss went to the Indian dressing room for reversal of the third umpire's decision and they got it. You should be thankful to the Indians for Bell's 150 rather than accusing them of using Vaseline.

Posted by khurramsch on (August 3, 2011, 7:23 GMT)

all peopele who are comparing this with other things like lbw, edges etc this is not the same as that . coz lbw aor edges are part of daily routine with umpires fault. and 2nd those things hapen in middle of game u only get 1/2 mins for that . in this case 20 mins break help. even in this case when while leaving field umpires asked dhoni is he going to withdraw he said no so if there was next ball to bowl then it will not hapen. but hre 20 mins break helped dhoni to talk with team, managment etc.even at most said at first thts ok or not but after few mins when whole picture came in indias apeal seems right.

Posted by khurramsch on (August 3, 2011, 7:23 GMT)

ok dhoni showed good gesture but didnt this so called spirit of game has overtaken rules of game? it wasnt the case where batsman was colided with fieldr & no mistake. in this case bell was clearly wrong & he did saw back to see ball but then again proceeded with it. & about crowd they dont have enough info. even at home at 1st instance i thought india were wrong but when whole info came inda was right in there appeal.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:17 GMT)

Well Mr. Flower, Ian bell cannot be compared to SRT. Actually he cannot be compared to You as well! And what he did was utter foolishness. A player of 67 test matches cannot be "naive"! This is not a second division county match. It is a test match between two of the best test playing nations. You are lucky that Dhoni had the spirit to do so. I don't expect anything like that from your side. And ask Ian Bell about what exactly is the "Spirit of the game" when he placed "jelly beans" on the crease.

Posted by george204 on (August 3, 2011, 7:09 GMT)

Classic understatement from Andy Flower. If that run out had happened to Sachin in India, "international incident" would have been the least of it! Anyway, given that India lost by substantially more than the 21 runs Bell added after the reprieve, it had very little bearing on the game...

Posted by rahulkj21 on (August 3, 2011, 7:07 GMT)

I respect Mr.Flower, but trust me i am not understanding his point about bringing Sachin and the Nationality crowds and all that.. its about Cricket sportsmanship, and if we guys review wit den u ll find that ian bell ws running fa the 4th and stopped due to morgan's call nd he continued walking...

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:07 GMT)

and secondly tendulkar was run out by his own mistake cause he was watching the ball instead of draging his bat in the crease and the ball thrown in from frm the boundry side

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 7:06 GMT)

Attractivue - if it had happened to Tendulkar, there wouldn't BE a rest of the series to boycott!

Posted by Evilboy23 on (August 3, 2011, 7:00 GMT)

Mr. Flower, the thing is Sachin would have never done that thing. For that matter, none of the Indian players would have called tea time themselves. It was pure arrogance on the part of Bell to decide it was time for tea. The umpires were standing there and this guy disrespects them by just jogging off the pitch. Shouldn't he be charged for bad behavior if he was allowed to come back and bat again?

Posted by Avimatkar on (August 3, 2011, 6:55 GMT)

Hello Mr.Attractivue just remember India v Pakistan in kolkata sachin was run out because shoaib akhtar was obstracting sachin the decision stood & that was the turning point of the game as well as in Australia Ganguly was caught with the bump ball this is just an example but India never boycotted the rest of the series. So don't say well said Mr. flower.Because Flower don't know what he talking about Mumbai & people of Mumbai.Well said Mr. Ronson333 i totaly agree with you !!!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:48 GMT)

People who are accusing Andy are actually those who are blinded. You talk about the hat trick where Harbhajan got out wrong!!! What about Harbhajan's own hattrick where 2 outs were wrong. Gilchrist out on a delivery pitched outside off!!! Shane Warne out is still a doubt. Can you assure me that Warne was out there??? What about the decisions when Kumble took so called 10 wickets??? My point is these decisions are part of game. They will happen. But the decisions like that of Ian Bell are the ones that shouldn't happen. It was India's stance to rule out DRS for LBW not England's.

Posted by Ronsars on (August 3, 2011, 6:47 GMT)

Not an SRT fan but can assure you that he would have gracefully accepted the decision & walked off for he is known to be a gentleman that provided he commits such a foolish mistake of "walking" before the ball is dead which i very much doubt

Posted by TheDurbanTrundler on (August 3, 2011, 6:43 GMT)

A couple of points (from an England supporter): 1) I think Bell should have been out and stayed out; 2) Having said that, the reinstatement by India was magnanimous and definitely in the spirit of the game as Bell certainly was not going for a run. 3) Flower's mention of Tendulkar and Mumbai is irrelevant speculation - each incident should be looked at on its own merits; 4) In the same way saying that "England would not have done it" is also pointless speculation. Well done to India, learn your lesson Bell (and others) and move on.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:43 GMT)

So india was right to follow the rules and run him out and england pathetic to make a scene? oh well how this indian tune has changed. Not that long ago you guys were whining about Randiv's no ball to Sehwag. Maybe your bowlers should concentrate on getting wickets and not running people out.

Posted by tuffy123 on (August 3, 2011, 6:40 GMT)

Mr.Flower,

Why are you pulling Sachin and the Indian crowd to what has happened. Sachin Tendulkar would have never done such a stupid thing in the first place. He is too matured a cricketer to make such a silliy mistake. Had it been the Australians, they would have shown you the door when you went to the dressing room. They play cricket the hard way. Its was out and so no fuss about it.

And also, if it happened during the Ashes, would you dare to visit the Australian Dressing Room ???

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:39 GMT)

ha ha, nobody expects Tendulkar to be in such a hurry to run for tea to risk such a stupid dismissal, secondly Tendulkars Akhtarized run out in Kolkata did create an uproar, but the decision wasnt reversed , instead Tendulkar came out to pacify the crowds himself .

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:38 GMT)

Mr.Andy lets get things clear here, Sachin's appetite is for runs and not for Tea, so unlike Bell. He wouldnt have left his ground even if the umpires have called for tea. That's sachin. Sorry your logic sucks.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:34 GMT)

I don't know why people are hypothesizing a situation. Sachin was given out bizarrely (and I must say, wrongly), well, not in Mumbai but in Kolkatta, and there was trouble with spectators. But look at how India responded? They got the stadium vacated and completed the match. England should learn to live with their mistakes rather than begging. Bringing hypothetical situations in play for unfair advantage is not befitting a good side.

Posted by Dr.Hasan on (August 3, 2011, 6:25 GMT)

Rightly said Mr. Flower. Had it been any indian player all hell would have broken loose with the natch and series being abandoned and english players "punished" for their "misdeeds". Defeat (that too so shameful one) is a bitter bitter pill to swallow and a big one too :D

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:25 GMT)

I have never ever observed any incident about any Indian cricketer given out in a bizarre fashion as this. Does anybody know why? It's because the Indians play well within the rules and don't commit such blunders. I remember when Wasim Akram was the captain and Sachin got runout attempting a third run due to his collision with Shoaib Akhtar. Now when even that was not made a huge issue, how can Mr. Flower expect India to do what he's claiming us to do. I hope these talks dont reach the Indian dressing room. Because whenever any such incidents occur, the Indians are known to come back hard and defeat any team in World Cricket.

Posted by chandau on (August 3, 2011, 6:24 GMT)

so Mr. Flower you are now comparing Bell with SRT which is absolutely stupid...... ditto SRT is not as naive as Bell to walk off as he claims, although the replays show him running despite the upheld hand of Morgan. Now we are not mind readers but Mr. Bell is not the most respected for his integrity, is he? First he said about the umpire "he said over" which is documented, and later retracted, when it was clear available tv footage did not show the umpire calling over! Then he said he was walking for tea, when infact he ran- maybe for tea, maybe for a single, maybe to hug Morgan, maybe to the loo (we will never know). isnt it funny SRT is the most quoted example when people want to justify their actions, when in fact most of the things may not be applicable to him :) LOL

Posted by abhi.bill on (August 3, 2011, 6:21 GMT)

So Andy, given that I was your fan before this, it is really disappointing the way you have been reacting to media. And strauss, talking about 'spirit of cricket' , where was the spirit gone when you refused runner to Greame smith, then you yourself requested runner against Aussies. Where was your spirit when you checked Laxman's bat for Vaseline. Where was the spirit when Jelly beans were thrown on pitch. And well you may have won, but then also consider this play one match without your openers, Strauss and Cook and let Anderson get injured, see where you land. And FFS, you never beat Aussie when they had McGrath and Warne playing or SA with Steyn in it. Your side has been lucky to benefit from injuries.

Posted by Thegreatgame on (August 3, 2011, 6:21 GMT)

End of it all the Indian Team showed who were the bigger men. Bell was let off easy and he knows it. All this talk about MSD "setting an example" is what needs to be said in a media conference. In reality Mr Flower and his cohorts wouldn't have budged an inch if their roles were reversed.

Posted by ali14pakistani on (August 3, 2011, 6:19 GMT)

I think the Indians and everybody should put the "this might have been" and concentrate on trying to retain their number one status, though it seems difficult. Also we should learn to take defeat when it comes, like Dhoni did. Also don't think calling back Bell resulted in that many runs. Anyway congrats to the English Lions so far.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:19 GMT)

Flower and Strauss are stupid to ask for reversal of decision. If sensible, they should have explained to the crowd it it wrong to criticise Indian team. They do not understand the pressure under which India had to play. It is clear that England team do not have spirit of sportsmanship.

Posted by Front-Foot-Lunge on (August 3, 2011, 6:18 GMT)

"Posted by CricFan78 on (August 03 2011, 01:34 AM GMT) Andy please tell us why did you ban Monty from bowling to Sachin if you are so concerned about double standards"

What rubbish is this? Are you seriously suggesting that Monty Panesar wasn't picked to play because of the colour of his skin because Flower thought that was an issue?

India really are losing badly - their fans seem intent on making up any sort of drivel to distract them from the fact that they've been beaten hands down by the better team.

Posted by India_boy on (August 3, 2011, 6:10 GMT)

if it was Tendulkar: 1.) he would never have made this extremely stupid mistake,that looked like being made by a 5 year old who is excited about having pepsi/coke on the ground(in this case Tea) 2.) Sachin would have never come out of the ground and embarrassed himself in front of his home crowd after having begged for alms 3.) England has a history of winning by begging,i remember when they were about to lose a game against Pakistan, they accused them of cheating and pak forfeited the game,n other words donated it to Eng. 4.)if Indian came to ur dressing room asking for repeal,and if u did,by any chance,revert the decision....Indians would have treated u like kings and made sure you had the best tour ever rather than question ur own team attitude. im not sure if my comment will appear here, but lets see!

Posted by beingsharih on (August 3, 2011, 6:09 GMT)

That ws kiddish from Bell...no presence of mind..had the throw been a couple of secs late...they wud hav taken that last run...BTW lemme tell u Sachin has already recieved a harsh verdict when Shoiab Akhtar unwillingly came in his way in Kolkata Test in 1999. Sachin was not called back but he played a part in calling back bell. We do not get involve in revenge kind of activity.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:05 GMT)

sachin wouldnt have commited such an mistake. and every1 knows wat would have been Englands reaction in it as it previously shows wat they had done during Eng NZ series

Posted by A_cricketlover_from_Pakistan on (August 3, 2011, 6:04 GMT)

Well said flower...........If this match was being played in Mumbai and the batsman was SRT, there would have been an international protest, Indian team would have boycotted the rest of the series. ICC would have passed a ruling that it was not out and consequently Andrew Strauss would have been banned for 3 test matches for appealing and disputing the spirit of the game and the India would have been declared the winners.

Posted by vswami on (August 3, 2011, 6:04 GMT)

The arrogance and insinuations are breathtaking. Dhoni showed good grace even though the team was in a losing position. Even after being the recipient of good fortune, Flower is unable to show dignity.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 6:00 GMT)

well mr. flower & mr. attractive - thanks 4 putting indian crowds in great light, however the reality is english crowds are the same and not mature as u both seem to wrongly think they are, we all know and saw how one moment they were booing dhoni (they shd not have done so if they knew the laws of cricket) and next moment they gave dhoni a standing ovation once they realized the appeal was reversed and bell cud resume batting. Please don't act in a holier than thou manner which is so typical of your english crowds & experts. also when sreesanth claimed a catch that clearly wasnt, he was roundly booed, wonder why the so called mature english crowd didnt boo when harbhajan singh clearly inside edged the ball and was wrongly given out, after seeing the replays on the giant screen, strauss cud have similarly called him back??? fact is ur english crowds are no less jingoistic than indian ones, so stop giving us a lecture in morality and most of all ian bell is no sachin tendulkar.

Posted by sony_sr on (August 3, 2011, 6:00 GMT)

You nick while you try to hit a boundary. Your intention was to hit a boundary and not nick the ball. So by what flower is saying, nobody will get out as the intention is never to get out :)

Posted by Meety on (August 3, 2011, 5:47 GMT)

What I find interesting is what happens IF Bell does something stupid again. There is a habit of trotting off merily when batting at the close of a session. I think this incident serves as a first & final warning *& the next time either Bell or someone in the current Pommy team does something like that - they should be out, end of story!

Posted by AB-50 on (August 3, 2011, 5:47 GMT)

May we remind Mr Flower about a similar incident,when the very Sachin Tendulkar was run-out ,when he was blocked(voluntarily or otherwise) to make ground by Shoaib Akhtar and the throw from the boundary hit the stumps ? And if I am right,it was in an Indian ground only.We never asked Pakistan to re-consider the decision. Anyway,apart from the Bell-Tendulkar comparision,I personally feel that Dhoni & Co. took the right decision of calling Bell back,setting a great example of the sportman spirit.The test was,by then,anyway lost.

Posted by Amol_Ind_SA on (August 3, 2011, 5:44 GMT)

AS an Indian I say: Technically Bell is out as he was attempting a run BEFORE the ball was out of play and BEFORE the umpire signaled the end of the over/session but then everybody at/near the pitch was under the impression that the ball was out-of-play because the poor IND guy Praveen returned the ball casually from the boundary as if it was a four in spite of it not being a four because he was TOO TIRED playing in the (you guessed it)...IPL.

Posted by cricmatters on (August 3, 2011, 5:41 GMT)

Why drag Tendulakar into this incident? If Andy Flower has been so concerned about fair play then he should have asked Strauss to call back Harbhajan Singh as soon as it was clear that he was not out. Why go to the dressing room of an opponent and beg to him to reverse the decision when the same courtsey is not offered to one of their players? Have some self respect Mr. Flower. Stop begging.

Posted by I.RAGHURAM on (August 3, 2011, 5:39 GMT)

I don't know what Flower is talking about. It is not whether what Dhoni did was right or not. What really was the basis of the appeal to Dhoni by Strauss and Flower? Was it that there had been a miscarriage of justice? NO... Bell made a careless and stupid mistake. He had nobody to blame but himself. Don't blame the fielder who stopped the ball, fell over the boundary, picked up the ball and threw it in not sure if it was four or not. And don't blame India for running him out. He was miles out of his crease and out of order marching off for tea. Don't blame the umpires for carrying out the laws of the game. IT IS STUPID ON THE PART OF BELL NOT TO KNOW THE RULES AND FALL BACK ON SPIRIT OF THE GAME TO SAVE HIMSELF..... IT IS EVEN MORE STUPID ON THE ENGLISH MANAGEMENT TO SUPPORT HIM IN THIS STUPIDITY....

Posted by coolguyrocks on (August 3, 2011, 5:35 GMT)

Mr. Andy flower....why do you want to come to the lime light always? Look at the positive aspects rather than giving all sorts of reasons.... I don't think the Indian Team ever had an dictatorship attitude as a No. 1 Test team. They have really been humble and realistic. I applaud the Indian Team for achieving it with a Not-so good bowling attack... Dear Indian team, be aggressive and work as a Team...you guys have done it and just change the mind set....Wish you all the best....

Posted by DeemiZafar on (August 3, 2011, 5:32 GMT)

It actually happened once in a Test match in India and involved none other than Sachin Tendulkar himself! What's more, it was against Pakistan - the most tempestuous of scenarios. No "international incident" ensued, though. The juncture was critical too and in all probability had an affect on the outcome. Tendulkar was run out, having been obstructed ostensibly unintentionally by Shoaib Akhtar. India, batting well until then, lost the game and the rubber was equalised. Too presumptive of Andrew Flower, it seems.

Posted by vikaswatane on (August 3, 2011, 5:30 GMT)

Now I believe, Andy Flower knows nothing about Sachin. In the given scenario, Sachin would have never come back to bat again even if third umpire shows that he is not out. LOL Mr Andy Flower :P

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 5:29 GMT)

If it was Sachin, everyone would have said, "he should have known better." Now if it was Flower in place of Dhoni, would he have withdrawn the appeal?

Posted by gzawilliam on (August 3, 2011, 5:29 GMT)

Saurabh Kumar please listen to what he's saying.. he isn't comparing records of bell and tendulkar. He's comparing the reaction of people around them if tendulkar had been the man to make this mistake.

Flower is right. If this had happened in Mumbai to Tendulkar or sehwag there would have been either a pitch invasion or the indian board would once again whinge like babies to have it overturned.. I agree that dhoni probably realised this. Thats why he changed his mind.

its funny how all the indian comments are have failed to even understand what flower is saying instead of just reading what they want to read..

Posted by Bapi on (August 3, 2011, 5:27 GMT)

Well said visiri, may be Flower trying to justify his visit to Indian dressing room. Mr. Flower we Indian know our cricket, we take time, because history says there is very less probability for getting same thing in return. hope teams who behave like custodians of cricket learn somethings..

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 5:26 GMT)

hmmmm.. there are still two more test to go.. lets see if England does something similar when the situation arises.

Posted by Yogeshbodha on (August 3, 2011, 5:24 GMT)

I think if you watch the replay you will find out that bell initially was thinking of a run and thats why he came running about 2-3 steps and then started walking.So this clearly indicates that he was looking for a run.And mr.Andy just to let you know you have to go back to your crease before you start walking for tea,as thats the place where you are allowed to go for tea and not from the middle of the pitch. Also forget about what would have happened if this would have happened with sachin,I am interested to know when is next Englands tour to India with Andy as the coach.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 5:23 GMT)

Simply because sachin is the god of cricket and bell is a mere mortal

Posted by MENDIS_Forever on (August 3, 2011, 5:22 GMT)

earlier I thought it's Indians who always bring TENDULKAR to every cricinfo artical. so..what. !! .Now others are also doing the same thing. SRT is irrelevant to this matter.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 5:18 GMT)

This incident would not have bothered me, irrespective of whether Bell was given out or if the decision was reversed - there are many grey areas out there - BUT the fact that Flower and Strauss went to ask that Bell be reinstated genuinely irritates me. The track record of these guys and the English team as a whole certainly does not qualify them to ask another captain to retract an appeal.

Posted by Sudhakaar on (August 3, 2011, 5:17 GMT)

To Mr. Flower, In first place sachin would not have done such a silly thing.. So from where you are comparing this.. Also people say India influence every decisions in ICC.. But remember when we come to on field.. We play fair and we play with Spirit of Game.. It has been proven time and again...

Posted by Trushit on (August 3, 2011, 5:16 GMT)

well as they say THE ONLY TIME U THINK OF A MORAL BEHAVIOR IS WHEN U EXPECT IT FROM UR OPPONENTS!!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 5:15 GMT)

very right flower if that would have been any Indian player india media there board all must condemned and made a fuss of it but English team reacted very patiently and maturely Daryl Harper was right about indian team they try to bluff the umpires all the time there history tells much about that but well done England go on and take num1 test spot u deserve it

Posted by Rooboy on (August 3, 2011, 5:10 GMT)

Hard to see why anyone would argue against Flower's comments. I think some commenters here are missing the point ... if Flower's hypothetical situation actually occured, Tendulkar may well have accepted the decision. But the BCCI and Indian fans would not have! Tendulkar was given out plumb LBW (ie hit in line, ball going on to hit the stumps ... plumb) in Adelaide in the late '90s, but because he was trying to duck the delivery (or maybe just because it was SRT) indian fans somehow thought normal LBW rules don't apply. Over a decade later, indian fans STILL whine about this (totally correct) decision. Let's not forget this is the same country that threatened to cancel and leave mid-tour unless they got what they wanted after copping a some bad decisions (as happens to EVERY TEAM from time to time!!) in Sydney a few years ago. So situations like this make it clear to me that if Tendulkar was run out under these circumstances, the uproar would have been exactly as Flower is suggesting!

Posted by donda on (August 3, 2011, 5:08 GMT)

I totally agree with Andy flower on Sachin . I still remmeber the Kalkata test in 1999 pak vs india when Shoaib Akhtar hit Sachin and a direct hit get Sachin run out. The whole 90000 people were vacated from Kalkata on that day. But it was Sachin wicket which Pakistanis were dreaming about and they got it and as Pakistani i agree it was unfortunate but Indian fans were extremely unhappy.

I bet you if it was any Indian batsmen got run out in this series england would never consider reversing the decision.

Its Sachin tendulkar humbleness and Dhoni greatness that they ask Bell to play again. Credit goes to indian team and they showed us that they are really super power. Win or lose.

Posted by lethal007 on (August 3, 2011, 5:06 GMT)

i guess bell should had refuse to go out after tea if he was guilty..... and as far as incident is concerned if it had happened with any player of india in Indian ground then it will become a huge issue or may b play will be interrupted so many times by spectators ......... do not for shoaib and tendulkar inccident,,, how crowd behaved then hypocrisy all over

Posted by LittleFinger on (August 3, 2011, 5:01 GMT)

It is rather silly, Andy Flower, to drag Sachin into this hypothetically. Others in the Indian team and administration might be boors, but Sachin, Rahul and Laxman are gentlemen. And the questions about double standards are of course logical about when Grant Elliott collided with Sidebottom. Spirit of Cricket is not so precisely defined that the fact that Elliott was actually taking a run when Bell wasn't and Sidebottom didn't intentionally trip him means Elliott's run out was a clear cut out and is within the spirit of cricket while Bell's reprieve is automatically the right thing to do. That is rather convenient, blokes. I am pretty sure England would have appealed in a similar situation and who's to say whether they would have recalled the opposition batsman.

Posted by YeshuBN on (August 3, 2011, 4:57 GMT)

Sachin is not so STUPID as Bell to get run out by forgetting all the Game rules.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:55 GMT)

The point is that even if it was Tendulkar, it should have been out. The rules are one and the same for everyone.

Posted by PankajJhaCS on (August 3, 2011, 4:54 GMT)

Yes, it did happen to Sachin Tendulkar. In fact worse happened. He was run out against Pakistan at eden gardens due to collision with Shoaib Akhtar. he had reached the crease but his bat was lifted due to the collision and was given out with the match critically poised. Pakistan went on win the match but this did NOT become and international event. It is strange Andy flower can talk of hypothetical scneraios when there is actually a precedent that he can refer to. I am fine with MS Dhoni calling Bell back but look at what Mr. Vaughan did, he says that england managed to bully india into calling Bell back. I dont understand how can something not be in the spirit of the game, it is withing rules of a game. Bell may not have been attempting a run but he was caught unaware of the rules and Dhoni should have made Bell look stupid. I agree, it would not have had an impact on the game but I think it was unnecessary.

Posted by abdullahnoor007 on (August 3, 2011, 4:53 GMT)

Everything apart, england has exposed the so called No. 1 Indian team. Its hard for the Indians to digest this and that's why they are putting lame explanations. The fact is, that England is a better team than India and they have outshined India in the two test matches. If Indians are talking about Harbhajan's wicket and Broad's hat trick, why not discuss the 10 wickets of Anil Kumble against Pakistan out of which 3 were clearly not out. But still, Anil Kumble is a record holder. Its funny, its disturbing and its weird but its true and no one can deny it. I remember Tendulkar getting run out after colliding into shoaib akhtar against Pakistan in a test match in India and the crowd got so furious that the management had to clear the stadium from spectators to start the match again. We all should have the courage to face the defeat and i would request all the Indian fans to face it this time. They are a good team but not the number 1 this time.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:46 GMT)

Sachin will never ever too naive to walk before the umpire call tea.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:45 GMT)

England always an overrated side is going to be the new #1. Sometimes it sound stupid how the ranking system works. Look they haven't won any series in subcontinent recently and they for sure will struggle if they tour SA. This number 1 crown is not here to stay. If India plays a series in the subcontinent wicket, they would surely reclaim and hopefully BCCI will be burning midnight oil to arrange a quick series with Bangladesh or Zimbabwe to boost the ranking

Posted by anurag4u10 on (August 3, 2011, 4:45 GMT)

it can b clearly seen in d tv replays dat bell was initially attemptin a 4 th run nd only in d midway he reliizes dat morgan is nt interstd nd den he strts walkin pretendin he is goin 4 tea. r u dumb ? d umpire has nt signalled a boundary, neither had he calld over or tea. hw can u assume things by ur own? it was d gr8ness of indian team who calld bk bell aftr tea even it was his fault. eng team didnt hav d guts of even clling bk bhajji wen it was clear under replays dat he was nt out. strauss was busy in celebratin broads dodgy hattrick den. i am sure dat had it been any indian crkter in place of bell den neither crowd hav booed , nor eng wud hav calld him bk nd apart 4m dat eng media wud hav slammed d concerned crktr so harsh dat it wud hav been mockry of whole indian team. despite losing d mtch i am GLAD dat ind took such a bold step. U r d true champs

Posted by Mark00 on (August 3, 2011, 4:42 GMT)

Shame on the Indians who have made nasty comments below against Andy Flower. All you've done is prove him right.

Posted by kk_krishnan on (August 3, 2011, 4:41 GMT)

Why did it not occur to anybody that tendulkar would never have made such a school boyish error on the cricket field , which bell himself has admitted as naive. In 20 years of watching sachin I have never seen sachin make such kind of mistake, so the hypothetical situation flower assumes would not have happened.

As for double standards , I guess flower stopped monty from bowling to sachin in the spirit of cricket sense....

Posted by davekendall on (August 3, 2011, 4:36 GMT)

Fascinating threat for its insight into Indian culture. Looks like the real offence for Indians is that Flower "dragged" Tendulkar into an argument. SRT is genuinely perceived to be a god by many Indians, and it is blasphemous to invoke God to win a human argument. Similarly, in Thailand, making a reference to the King in order to win an argument - even in a private conversation - can land you in jail. The law is called lese majeste, and it clearly covers Tendulkar too - He Who Must Not Be Named...

Posted by agn007 on (August 3, 2011, 4:33 GMT)

and yeah..... dhoni shudnt have allowed this in the first place..... missing the days wen dada captained !!!!!

Posted by akelumw on (August 3, 2011, 4:32 GMT)

@ Harshad K Trivedi ha ha ha... U Indians do have very short memories haa, When SRT & Raina weren't given not out @ Lord's then u ave no problem with those only complaining when things went wrong 4 u. it's amazing that u r complaining a single decision even of a lower order batsman had changed the whole course of the game. Then how much the decision on SRT could have effected 1st test. But England were no cry babies like u to complaining of a single decision (in England's case 02 decisions including Raina), they came back & got both out & won. If ur point is right then @ Lord's umpires must have tried to send a message across 2 BCCI to keep on saying no 2 DRS.If u expect England 2 recall Harbajan back then y Dhoni didn't call Broad back & SRT & Raina to come back @ Lord's, as all have been umpire's blunders. If u have any problem with LBW decisions blame nobody but ur own BCCI as they are the only obstacle of DRS against the will of all other 9 test playing nations. No democracy.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:26 GMT)

Tendulkar wouldn't have been so naive. And this run out wasn't unsportsmanlike, we've seen worse from the English team. This England team has played well in England and all the former players of the 90s who were no good are now talking arrogantly. Let us wait till you face a full strength India in India. Remember the Ashes after 2005?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:26 GMT)

i cant understand andy flower's comments.comparing bell with sachin is a stupidity.And moreover if the situation occurs , england would never withdraw as dhoni did.

Posted by johnathonjosephs on (August 3, 2011, 4:25 GMT)

First off, the ESPN Staff got it wrong. First of all, it was not Mukund who took the bails off, but Saha (a substitute fielder). Second, and most importantly, Dhoni instructed Saha/Mukund to take it off. Dhoni was near the stumps and the ball was thrown to him. Saha was at the bails and Dhoni tossed him the ball and instructed him to the take the bails off. Dhoni did not do this himself and nobody on the cricket team did it, because they knew it would be controversial, so they made the uncapped substitute take the hit, but it is important to know that it was under Dhoni's orders, so the substitute is not at fault. And very well said Mr. Flower. People complain that England don't play in the spirit of cricket. Who allowed Angelo Matthews to come back after he was run out controversially? that wasn't big news, so why is this? Because the INDIAN captain overturned it? I laugh at such trivial matters and at the naive fans who think this will be talked for generations. LOL

Posted by kristee on (August 3, 2011, 4:24 GMT)

The vital question is if that fantastic innings deserves such an end. If somebody believes it does, he's an insult to sports. Besides, it can happen to anybody. The fielder's body language was misleading. PK seemed to give the impression that he had failed to field the ball. Further, it coincided with tea time. All this added in favor of the batsman. I think even the umpires themselves could have intervened and put an end to the 'drama'.

Posted by BaigSaqib on (August 3, 2011, 4:16 GMT)

What a shame!!! All you guys who think Dhoni made a wrong decision don't deserve to call themselves fans of cricket. Your comments are very biased. You guys think that Sachin is GOD and can't be compared to Bell. Although, he is one of the best player to play cricket, but same cricket rules applies to both SRK and Bell. Remember what happened at Eden Garden when SRK was run out after colliding with Shoaib Akhtar, the match had to be stopped for an hour. Bell was stupid to walk away, but at the end of the day he was not attempting a run, and although within rules, but running him out was not the right thing to do. Dravid and Sachin themselves agree to that, and would you all say that they both did not have the spine!!!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:14 GMT)

Sachin has earned respect all over the world. So, in that way Mr. Flower is right.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:10 GMT)

@Attractivue : yes just as we did in that Calcutta test in 1999

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:07 GMT)

Andy Flower..When a decision is Taken It should really not be overturned and replaced by another one.....you adapt to what happened and play from there...Your Just The Coach that doesn't give you the right to do what you feel is right because we have umpires who are trained nad knows the whole rule Book This decision was overturned. In the spirit of Cricket". but to tell the truth a better way of showing the spirit of cricket would have been if the England team had not overturned it and play from there.

Ms Dhoni Didn't want Chaos In the Field so he went with you guys and changed the decision.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:04 GMT)

None of the Indians are stupid enough to do this. Bell was not naive. He was plain stupid. This bizzare situation is a result of his utter stupidity. nothing else. Pity Andy flower and Stauss had to beg for decision to be changed.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 4:02 GMT)

Hello Mr.Flower, your job is to coach the english team and not to make problems between England and India. Do you know, Sachin had never made such a foolish mistake and I think he is good enough not to make such blunders. But what do 'you think' I don't know. Sorry to say that pity on you Mr.Flower. I don't think that any players or former players who know the player and personality of Sachin Tendulkar would agree your comments. Anyway Bell is a good player. Hope he'll learn from this and won't do such blunders in future.

Posted by ALI.BHALLI on (August 3, 2011, 3:59 GMT)

HI

YOU PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT IN INDO-PAK SERIES HELD IN PAKISTAN IMRAN KHAN CALLED BACK SRIKANT WHO WAS UNHAPPY ON GIVEN OUT LBW. IMRAN WAS THE REAL SPORTSMAN WHO INTRODUCED THE NEUTRAL UMPIRES. SO DO REMEMBER HIM. GOODBYE

Posted by testcriclover on (August 3, 2011, 3:59 GMT)

PS: Continuation from prev comment

It was perfectly clear to everyone that the collision was responsible for Sachin's bat not being grounded but the Pakistanis appealed and third umpire gave Sachin out.

The partisan crowd at Eden gardens got angry and threw bottles and rubbish at the Pakistanis. Play was halted for more than an hour. Eventually, Sachin had to do the rounds at Eden and ask the crowd to pacify. Play eventually started and India(who relied on Sachin too much on those days) fell short by 40 odd runs. Even though Sachin's wicket was so crucial in the context of the game, I will bet my life it didn't even occur to the Indian team to ask the Pakistanis to withdraw the appeal in "the spirit of the game".

The lesson is that while Andy might be right about there being an uproar among Indian fans if something like this happened with Sachin, the difference is that the Indians wouldn't go begging to the English dressing room.

Posted by swarzi on (August 3, 2011, 3:59 GMT)

Andy Flower does have a point with respect to his reference to the same incident happening to Tendulkar at Mumbai. However, I am pretty sure that if England was at the opposite end of the stick; whether it was Tendulkar at Mumbai or Tendulkar at Lords, or any other player anywhere for that matter, no English captain under the circumstances of chasing the No.1 spot for the first time in the 'history' of world cricket (a game they invented) would have reinstated any batsman who would have jeopardised their chances of achieving that goal. As most people have indicated already, why the hell they did not accept VVS Laxman's word 'IN THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME' that he did not hit the ball even after he had been vindicated by hot spot technology. Their spirit of the game is to try to besmirch Laxman's character by suggesting that he had vaselined the edge of his bat! Something I am sure Michael Vaughn might more have contemplated if he was still playing.

Posted by rsurya on (August 3, 2011, 3:55 GMT)

But flower Sachin is not that NAIVE

Posted by AjaySridharan on (August 3, 2011, 3:54 GMT)

I really think the umpires and match referee are to be accused of double standards here. Strauss and Flower should be fined for showing dissent with the umpires' decision. The fact that this happened behind the scenes during tea "break" saved them. Imagine Harbhajan walking over to Strauss and asking him to reconsider his appeal when he clearly edged the ball onto his pads. Because that would have happened on the field, he would have been fined for showing dissent.

It is ridiculous that Flower is talking about double standards in a hypothetical scenario! He is accusing Indian cricket fans of not having a cricketing sense in a situation like that. I think he is childishly jealous of Tendulkar's popularity. I don't recall Indian fans raising ruckus when Sachin was given LBW against McGrath in Australia when he was hit on the helmet ducking a bouncer, though the ball was clearly going over the stumps.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:49 GMT)

Hello Mr. Flower don't compare Indian with any team in this world because we the Indians have faced many such incidents in the cricket and most of the times it was faced by ST and Rahul so mind your words before giving a statement and look at history. Indian cricket team never urged any team to reconsider the decision fight like a lion and don't fight like fox. If you continue this definitely soon you will face the consequences and become worst side of the cricket. Cricket is a gentlemen's game and behave according to it don't play like street cricket. once a decision is taken good or bad you must stick to it or bound to it you don't have any right to ask or request to change it. any way Congrats MSD eventhough if you lost the series you are behaving like king. you may not be King or lord by birth but you guys are Kings in character. Salute to the Indian cricket team.

Posted by testcriclover on (August 3, 2011, 3:49 GMT)

The very first test of the first ever Asian test championship was held between India and Pakistan in the iconic Eden Gardens. Pakistan batted first on a seaming picket and were reduced to 26 for 6 in the first innings but they fought back to get 188. India replied with 223, gaining a small lead. In the second innings, Saeed Anwar played his best knock to set India a target of 279 with enough time left in the match to rule out a draw.

India started the chase well with the second wicket falling on 134. This brought Tendulkar on the crease. Shortly, the following incident ensued (as reported by Wisden), "Tendulkar had just taken two runs - incidentally completing 5,000 in Tests - and was returning for a third when substitute Nadeem Khan hit the stumps from deep mid-wicket. Tendulkar had collided with Akhtar, who was waiting for the throw, and failed to ground his bat; third umpire K. T. Francis ruled him out."

PS: See next comment for rest of my post.

Posted by PhilGoorha on (August 3, 2011, 3:47 GMT)

What is this man Flower talking about, folks? It is immaterial if it were Sachin instead of Bell in that non-incident (I say non-incident, because Bell was simply out and should have quietly changed into his T and shorts and watched the rest of the game). The inebriated hoodlums in the stadium howled like silly brats neagting the umpires wisdom and Dhoni choosing to stick with what umpire had adjudicated. Yet, two beggars, i.e. Flower and Strauss chose to beseech and prostrate in front of Dhoni seeking reprieve. That gutless ex-captain Michael Vaughan gloated that England was able to bully India. Pray, what has British press said about that abhorrable mendicancy?

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:45 GMT)

I am totally agree with mr. flower. He is brave enough to come and says something like this.

Posted by randika_ayya on (August 3, 2011, 3:45 GMT)

Indian fans complaining about the missed inside-edge of Harbhajan??? Who denied the use of technology for detecting inside-edges in the first place? Indians themselves of course! Don't be such hypocrites now to come in forums and complain no ends about it! Poetic justice.

Posted by salazar555 on (August 3, 2011, 3:40 GMT)

I don't even no why we are still talking about this, Bell scored another 20 runs after tea and england won the test by more than 300. If it was up to me bell would have stayed out and we could boo you and smash you at the same time. As it was Dhoni and team india gets to be heroes

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:36 GMT)

andy flower the greatest reverse sweeper in the history of the game,now has just reverse sweeped the whole issue on terms of sachin..where in the world srt comes here for the stupid mistake that bell had made ,that no one has ever made in 137 years of test cricket..the video shows that he was going for the fourth run and morgan signalled him to stay on his crease ,getting into terms halfway down the pitch he realised he was in trouble then started walking to make fools around him.And for bell"s intergrity tea was not called for,why he did he try to escape the ground with his partner if he was not guilty?and does the spirit of game allows broad to check for vaseline on laxmans bat??shame on england.england outplayed india is an obvious fact,but not in the terms true the spirit of game.i don't think any batsmen would get out of his crease without signalling to the umpire and the fielder.andy coach your pals the basics of staying in the crease and get coached not to get out of context..

Posted by GoodGrief on (August 3, 2011, 3:34 GMT)

As an English fan living in Australia I used to think that Aussie fans could be painful but the constant stream of bitter histrionics that we are subjected to on this site from supposed Indian fans is unbelievable.

I recall seeing comments after England won the Ashes claiming that Sri Lanka and India would put England in its place - now that has not happened it seams just the slightest event is pounced upon. They are lucky, or they cheat or they have double standards or whatever. Just accept it, India are a reasonable (but not good) test side playing a much stronger and BETTER PREPARED side.

England are lucky because Shewag put the IPL ahead of this series and planned his surgery accordingly, or because the only decent bowler you have comes over with no 1st class match fitness and breaks down on the first morning - give me a break.

Work out your priorities, if you want to put 20/50 over cricket first then thats up to you - just stop making stupid and bitter excuses when you lose.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:32 GMT)

Well said Mr. Flower, Had this happened to Thendulcar, India would boycotted the rest of the series, and the ICC(BCCI) will start the discussions on changing the laws of Cricket over run outs.

Posted by KAIRAVA on (August 3, 2011, 3:32 GMT)

Andy Flower has lost it. He is absolutely no knowledge of what he talking about. Comparing Tendulkar with Bell !!?? Raina would have been probably a more suitable choice for comparison with Bell.

Posted by stinga59 on (August 3, 2011, 3:30 GMT)

Interesting that people want to quate the rules of the game when they obviously have never read them. If the batman is not running or seeking to gain an advantage then he shoulod under the laws be given not out. This si similar to when Dean Jones was run out when he started to walk when caught off a no ball. He wasn't running or seeking to gain an advantage and the umpire has erred ibn giving the batsman out.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:24 GMT)

flower is exactly right even an wrong LBW decision was spoken as a big issue by indian commentrators if the same thing happend to sacihin they will ask questions from england players and create a big issue

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 3:17 GMT)

All said and done...Why in the hell is Andy Flower talking about double standards? Bell was asked to come back and thats very magnanimous of the Indians. The story stops there...The English are basking in the glory of the 2-0 lead. Besides Sachin has been a smart batsman who knows the rules of test cricket. Too bad Bell is a little naive...I wonder what would the Aussies do in such a case? Ask Bell to come back?

Posted by satanswish on (August 3, 2011, 3:11 GMT)

Flower should worry more about political situation in Zimbabwe...LOL

Posted by Woody111 on (August 3, 2011, 3:06 GMT)

Come on people, you know as well as I do that the Indian public is so parochial they would have stormed the field if the same thing had happened to an Indian batsman in India. Don't get all precious like that. Flower is one guy that stands by his convictions and is consistent. He stood up for black cricketers in his country while others did nothing so be bloody careful when you start getting defensive because of your Indian bias.

Posted by rakzmenon on (August 3, 2011, 3:02 GMT)

Flower is talking hypothetical scenarios. Then in this cricketing world (and non cricketing too) many things can be justified. If this has happened, if this had not happened etc etc. Come on Andy, talk present and talk cricket. No point taking up the case by putting many "what if's". As been stated rightly in many other posts, a Tendulkar or a Sehwag wont be as dumb as Bell. Hope this does ring a "Bell" in Flower's ears. Looking forward to some good cricket in weeks ahead from both the teams..

Posted by BVS5 on (August 3, 2011, 3:00 GMT)

Even if we were to accept Andy Flower's hypothetical example about SRT and the Indian crowd, one thing is certain - no Indian player or support staff would have begged the England team for reinstating a player declared as OUT. By BEGGING to reinstate Bell, Flower and Strauss showed how low they can stoop. And if I may add, the English media has very 'cleverly' sidelined this important point.

Posted by DrGuru on (August 3, 2011, 2:50 GMT)

Unsportsmenlike of the English team to request/beg to overturn the umpires' decision. Decision's made and as per the rules of the book, Bell is OUT. No doubt about that. and thats END OF STORY. Shame on Strauss and Flower to even beg mercy when the player himself admitted guilt of thinking the session's over when its not really over. This is sport and these guys are supposedly professionals and not a kindergarden play session.

And oh so childish of Flower to compare Bell with Tendulkar. Silly reasoning to coverup their act of childishness. I wonder why Dhoni didnt have the backbone to say no, afterall you're not playing for charity and why be overly generous while as a matter of fact your team is behind. I'd say thats over-confidence.

Posted by WTEH on (August 3, 2011, 2:46 GMT)

Well well Andy, you should know who has the double standards. The things you did as a player and now things you say as a coach? It is sad that you were part of another dirty scam and label it as a deed need to be done. Were you present when the hat-trick was taken. Don't you remember all the bad decisions that went against the visitors during the summer. If this is not called double standard, I'm not sure what is.

Posted by waughjunior on (August 3, 2011, 2:40 GMT)

Attractivue- totally agree with your comments, imagine if that decision had of been made against an indian in india,australia or england!! wow what a ruckus it would have caused!

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 2:37 GMT)

so Mr. Flower you are now comparing Bell with SRT which is absolutely stupid......

Posted by justtruth on (August 3, 2011, 2:35 GMT)

ABSOLUTELY Andy is correct.Indians know that is the only way they can get IAN BELL out ... how cowardly act and how shamefull it is ...

England would have been treated so badly if they did the same to sachin,, i swear for sure.

Let me tell u something,, if bell was out like that india would be all out under 100 runs it would have promplted an eruption in english side.

Imagine what media and papers would have backed sachin, and would have mentioned how cheap were the team to get someone like tat, not only that media would have supproted Sachin.

When something bad happens to indians especialy sachin,, its spoken so bigggggg

Posted by me54321 on (August 3, 2011, 2:32 GMT)

Do all Indian fans take these kind of statements so seriously, or is it a minority? England and Flower have been on the end of a bit of criticism, and accusations of double standards, and he's responding to those. Cricket is a special sport, and sporting actions like recalling a batsman make it that way. Recalling Bell was the right decision, and it's done now, it's about time we all moved on. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a gracious act by Dhoni though, as it did appear to be a decision made under a reasonable amount of pressure, and in the knowledge of the probable consequences if it wasn't made.

Posted by shaz101 on (August 3, 2011, 2:31 GMT)

rtom...shown courage to call back...how about cheap way to get him out first because his bowlers couldn't get him out so they decided to take cheap action like and Indian always would......all people trying to defend Dhoni please don't even try... don't blame Bell he has done nothing wrong.. the person who is at centre of shameful act is MS Dhoni..yes he is a culpurt>>>. captain of Indian team would do such a thing... yes no surprise there.... that is always in his vains and finally he delievered his credentialls.

Posted by Hammond on (August 3, 2011, 2:28 GMT)

I agree that had Tendulkar or Sehwag been run out in India in the same manner and had Strauss been hard nosed about it we could have had an international incident. The only thing I would have done as Bell is to throw my wicket away a few balls later just as an admission that as far as the laws of cricket go he was out and showed his appreciation of the gesture with one of his own. THAT would have been truly in the spirit of the game..

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 2:20 GMT)

This is absolutly nonsense. Clearly bell tried for 4th run can watch the video and confirm. He calls morgan for the run and joggs back 10feet and then when morgan stops him then he walks to other end. And he says he is bit forw This is absolutly nonsense. Clearly bell tried for 4th run can watch the video and confirm. He calls morgan for the run and joggs back 10feet and then when morgan stops him then he walks to other end. And he user words dozy and navie . When ur dozy why stay in field get aback to dressing room and sleep . And SRT Will never do that because they have patience and respect to umpirer to call it a over so that they can move to other end unlike english guys declining a runner when a batsmen is unable to walk & runout a batsmen by coming no his way

Posted by _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on (August 3, 2011, 2:18 GMT)

I doubt he meant "riot" he may hav meant a big to do in the press and on the streets. Wasn't there an incident when SRT had to come out and calm the crowd down? No1 cares to mention that? Ind crowds in general are much better behaved now but the press and the protests in the streets still rage on.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 2:17 GMT)

Do u all remember the incident in Eden Gardens when shoaib came in between the running between the wicket which resulted in the run out of the batsman.That batsman was sachin.He was cursing to the crease but was eventually runout and walked out even though their was angry protest against this decision from the spectator point of view. He himself came out and asked the crowd to be quiet in the spirit of the game .If he was not out at that stage India might have won that match but we lost that match.Y did Strauss or Bell did not even think about this when the English crowd booed at the Indians, Instead they choose the childish way.Y the Indian team alone need to carry the baton of so called the spirit of the game when others are slamming it....

Posted by sreesam on (August 3, 2011, 1:55 GMT)

Andy - England is playing with South African and Irish cricketers. You don't see Indians burning effigies!! On the other hand, if it were the Indian team, I am sure you, your team and your fans will be raising hell and whining day in and day out!!

Posted by Windies_will_rise on (August 3, 2011, 1:54 GMT)

andy you're right about if it happened to tendulkar......I hope you know after making that statement you might not ever be welcomed in india again after reading some of the indian comments on this article lol

Posted by ronson333 on (August 3, 2011, 1:36 GMT)

I wnder if flower mentioned the harbhajan incident to his team....or when Ian bell inside edged against australia at sydney....has he even applauded dhoni for this incident ?......flower rather than talking rubbish, why not talk abot the so called spirit of cricket;...you may become number 1, but your attitude doestn;t deserve it, cricket is better off without you, espicially as you cliamed to uphold it with your 'black armands' at one stage...

Posted by CricFan78 on (August 3, 2011, 1:34 GMT)

Andy please tell us why did you ban Monty from bowling to Sachin if you are so concerned about double standards

Posted by visiri on (August 3, 2011, 1:23 GMT)

It is not clear what mr.Flower is trying to put across. Why drag in Sachin and Indian crowds on a presumed scenario. The fact is that England are on a high and so whatever stupidity they perpetrate.it will all be construed as part of the game. It is utter nonsense this line of justification by Mr Flower

Posted by Attractivue on (August 3, 2011, 1:12 GMT)

Very well said Mr. Flower. If that was Sachin, India would probably have boycotted the rest of the series!

Posted by Chennai_Voice on (August 3, 2011, 1:11 GMT)

Tendulkar wouldnt do that studpidity in the name of "naive", Mr.Flower. All the more you cant talk about double standards when you felt Strauss was generous to recall Mathews during the ODI.

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 1:06 GMT)

With due respect to Mr Flower, I don't think your comments hold any water because SRTs commitment , focus and concentration cannot be matched by Ian Bell. In his own words Bell said he was dozy and naive and did something stupid. I don't think SRT would be dozy and lose focus and not wait for the umpire's call. It would be a blasphemy to even compare Bell's mental fitness to SRT's

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 0:59 GMT)

Its surprising that Andy Flower is suggesting that if such a thing had happened to Sachin ! Sachin has never taken a single Run for Granted in his career and so such a scenario can only happen in Flower's mind and try to justify his Begging Bowl in the Indian dressing.... Here is the scenario "if they had called back Harbhajan Singh, wrongly adjudged LBW by Marias Erasmus, Broad would not have got his Hat-Trick and and India would have gone on to pile up substantial lead, as he proved by thrashing Bresnan in the second innings, and England would not have been able to bat as freely as they did." So lets repeat India's 1st. Innings from where Harbhajan was given out !

Harbhajan has been at the receiving end of Umpire's wrong decisions right from WI tour. To me only one explanation is that these umpires are contriving against Indian players , just because BCCI refuses to accept the UDRS and trying to send a message to BCCI to accept UDRS.

Posted by rtom on (August 3, 2011, 0:52 GMT)

Flower, this is also an international incident !! why dont you agree that indian team has shown utmost courage in asking Bell back to paly !! I would love to have such an incident to happen to indian tema players like Rahul, Sashin or VVS( For get all others), and want to see the reaction of English team and press !! tehn i am sure the Laws of cricket would come first !! This is incident Bell was absolutly stupid to walk like that !! Watch for Sachin, Dravid or Lax. They wave their hands out clearly signalling to umpires or opposition players before they leave their crease !!

Posted by wolf777 on (August 3, 2011, 0:49 GMT)

Unfortunately, Flower is correct about 'Tendulkar' analogy.

Posted by VEXXZ on (August 3, 2011, 0:16 GMT)

Two top teams going at each other . On the field and off the field . By officials , fans and players .In the press box its HOT,HOT. The cricket world has STRIPPED the West Indies down to NAUGHT .Now no one cares if we win or lose .

Posted by Stevo_ on (August 3, 2011, 0:13 GMT)

I knew Dhoni wouldn't have been behind it. He is a grub

Posted by strategic_blunder on (August 3, 2011, 0:12 GMT)

Yeah, that decision of recall stank of Tendulkar. Failure as a captain himself and making India fail as well in precarious situation. Neither Dravid nor Ganguly wouldve done it. I was surprised when Dhoni did. Most importantly, English wouldnt have done it themselves.

Posted by jackiethepen on (August 3, 2011, 0:06 GMT)

Dravid made it quite plain that the Indian team had discussed the matter and made a decision to reinstate Bell before Flower and Strauss came to visit. Given that we now understand that Tendulkar spoke up for Bell this seems extremely likely given the standing of The Little Master in the Indian dressing room. His integrity and sense of fair play puts former England captains Atherton, Vaughan and Hussain to shame. They are still insisting that they would have run out Bell. But would they have run out Tendulkar in Mumbai? A fair question.

Posted by Madhukar09 on (August 3, 2011, 0:03 GMT)

Wait a minute Mr.Flower before you make a comment such as "If an England side had done that in Mumbai against Tendulkar, I think there would have been a proper international incident on the cards." There has been a worse incident at Eden Gardens of all places and against Pakistan of all teams when SRT grounded his bat in the crease which was inadvertently kicked out by none other than Shoaib Akthar who went on to knock the bails out and SRT was given out. Yes there was an uproar, only by the crowd but there definitely was no "International Incident".

Posted by   on (August 3, 2011, 0:00 GMT)

What about Flower's comments after Strauss allowed A. Matthews to bat on after the collission-run-out? or Strauss' decision to withhold a runner for Graeme Smith? Law or Spirit?

Posted by heathrf1974 on (August 2, 2011, 23:57 GMT)

It would be interesting if it happened to a player who was on the away side.

Posted by sreesam on (August 2, 2011, 23:54 GMT)

The england team finally gets to be #1 for a day and already starts bullying Tendulkar and India!! Dhoni was graceful and changed his mind. Same cannot be said of the english!

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:53 GMT)

If that is the case what Flower is talking about, then what about controversial appeal successfully did by England against Inzamam. Generosity should be two way and mutual.

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:44 GMT)

sorry naive doesn't cut it..just because the crowd were booing (not knowing the interpretation of the law) India should have stuck with the original decision..why bring a hypothetical scenario and drag Tendulkar in to this...I am not an Indian fan but geez

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:44 GMT)

absolutely i agree with this. its been shown in the past that when things dont go india's way they get a bit upset and generally throw their toys out of their pram..

that said i dont think england can have much of a claim to being the most 'spirit of cricket' side in the world. India play the game in a better spirit in my opinion

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:43 GMT)

The reality is that there are plenty of inconsistencies with regard to the spirit of cricket -- sledging, not walking, claiming a non catch all happen with far too much regularity and are more egregious than what happened to Ian Bell.

It is about time someone exposed such contemptible behavior and also take into account new realities. One is that the cultural notions of spirit of cricket are still western ones but they need to be accommodate South Asian notions as well.

As for Flower's speculation on what would happen if Tendulkar were to be unfairly run out, Tendulkar did get run out after being "obstructed" by Akthar in 1999 in Kolkata. The world did not come to an end when Pakistan did not recall Tendulkar.

Posted by gandharibr on (August 2, 2011, 23:37 GMT)

If it happenned to dhoni or yuvraj in india, it wouldn't have become an international incident mr Flower. Were you serious comparing sachin to bell?

Posted by Number_5 on (August 2, 2011, 23:36 GMT)

Very interesting question that. What would be india's reaction if they had been on the receiving end...I dont think this needs to be beat up too much, regardless of one's opinion on who was right or wrong, i think the focus should remain on what a sporting gesture it was on india's behalf, in a time when cricket globally is facing many challenges including questions over the transparency of its leadership, this incident is a bright light and should be celebrated for this fact. India may lose its number 1 ranking after this series is done but in many eyes has only enhanced its "ranking" in terms of great teams and Dhoni a great captain.

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:30 GMT)

Didn't Collingwood admit afterwards that he'd made the wrong decision? Hardly a double standard.

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:20 GMT)

It is not right that Flower says "We felt that Bell wasn't attempting to take a run....". If a batsman is found out of the crease during his follow-through after playing a shot, he clearly is not attempting a run. Does that mean a silly point fielder cannot appeal for a run out after hitting the stumps ?

Looks like England is trying to behave like Australia; booing crowds, media bashing and commentators having a go at Indians whenever possible.

Posted by vj3478 on (August 2, 2011, 23:19 GMT)

Bell admitting to be naive doesnt mean Sachin would to be or do the same. And more over, Sachin was out once before that too vs PAK when trying to avoid a throw from the fileder. Why drag Sachin into this. Would england have done the same?? History says they dont!! Its a great decision by Dhoni to give Bell a life considering they are risking the test and the series and World #1 rank. If you cant thank, not a problem, but dont be childish. What ever the result, I like the atmosphere in which cricket is played expect for the part that india is lacking the fighting spirit!

Posted by johnpravinking on (August 2, 2011, 23:13 GMT)

Tendulkar is not a fool and in his 20 year career you can't find one silly incident like that. So Mr Andy flower just because you and your lot say that its right can't be right when everyone knows that you are wrong! I am really annoyed for the fact that Andy flower choose to forbade Panesar bowl against tendulkar in the nets.. Can't understand with what face did he go and ask for reinstating his batsman!!

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 23:13 GMT)

Similar kind of incident happened against Sachin Tendulkar in a match against Pakistan in Kolkata, I think 1999. It did not become an international issue then. One incident which is not acceptable is that Broad checking the VVS bat. If he has a problem, he has to report to the match officials. Many Eng fans would think that they are seeing these kind of comments since India is losing. But this is truth - double standards when it comes to spirit of the game by Eng. No denial. - Previously it was the Jelly bean incident, very childish.

Posted by salazar555 on (August 2, 2011, 23:11 GMT)

very true, if this had of happened in india and Sachin was batting there would have been uproar and people like Ravi Shastri know it

Posted by xylo on (August 2, 2011, 22:54 GMT)

Could we move on please? You might have reinstated Tendulkar, but he would have probably scored 2 more runs given it was the second innings. Maybe Ian Bell would not have worked the crowds like Sachin Tendulkar would have, but he scores runs.

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 22:48 GMT)

flower is right...if it was sachin or even any other indian batsman it would have been a huge issue in the indian media

Posted by aaamsaasza on (August 2, 2011, 22:39 GMT)

Comedy of errors - Under which law, rule, regulation, does ICC allow captain to bring a player from dressing room after he was given out and left the field. Where was the match referee when this whole drama was staged?

Posted by Fifthman on (August 2, 2011, 22:37 GMT)

England should really back themselves and go in with 4 seamers plus Swann. Even with that line-up they would bat down to 9, and Tremlett and Anderson both know how to hold a bat.

Having 4 English quicks pounding in fresh and ready all day long would be India's worst nightmare.

Posted by Master01 on (August 2, 2011, 22:36 GMT)

So disrespectful its unbelievable. What does a hypothetical tendulkar run out have to do with Englands double standards? An embarrasment

Posted by roonsta53 on (August 2, 2011, 22:33 GMT)

Flower is right, I'd like to have seen the look on the indians faces if England ran out Sachin on 90 runs in such a manner. I think the bottom line is that you do what you wish would be done to you, so if you want to run out players in this fashion, do so, but at your risk, as you may find some of your players are starting to get involved in "accidental collisons" resulting in run outs on a more regular basis, and then no one will have any sympathy.

Posted by PatrickJM on (August 2, 2011, 22:26 GMT)

Flower is simply (and not very successfully) trying to cover up his own batsman's doziness, and his and his captain's bafflingly behaviour. Simply saying (without a shred of proof) that the Indians would have caused an uproar is fanciful at best (when has the exemplary Tendulkar, the model of cricketing probity, ever been run out going into the pavilion at lunch?) and devious at worst. Bell was out. Conjuring up a potential international incident doesn't change that.

Posted by coldcoffee123 on (August 2, 2011, 22:26 GMT)

Hey Andy, Looks like you do not know what it takes to be a Sachin Tendulkar. Had Tendulkar found himself in such a situation, he would be the first to accept that he is run out. And would never come out of the dressing room to bat again. Sorry mate, you made a wrong comparison. And by the way, why did Bell not accept the umpire's decision that he is out? Any thoughts ?

Posted by delboy on (August 2, 2011, 22:24 GMT)

I recall Collingwood and Sidebottom showing no such sportsmanship in a scenario where Sidebottom physically impeded the opposition batsman. England rules OK!!

Posted by _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on (August 2, 2011, 22:21 GMT)

Although Bell was correctly out, I think Flower is right. Indians still whine about the time he was given lbw when he ducked into a short one.Be practical, if the ump thought he was out, he had every right to give him out. Most Indians are not rational when it comes to SRT, so why not forgive Bell?

Posted by jagansanthanam on (August 2, 2011, 22:16 GMT)

Sorry mate, you are wrong. In my opinion what Ian Bell did was school boyish and it deserved nothing better than being ruled out. To come up with a non existent similar scenario involving Tendulkar only goes to prove that you do not have a proper cricketing reason to defend the infamous incident. I vividly recall a test match way back in 1981 in Bombay involving India & England. This was the debut test for Krishnamachari Srikkanth. He scored zero in his1st innings and in his 2nd innings, he fended a ball to the slips and started walking nervously around the crease. It was John Emburey from slips that threw down the stumps only to find Srikkanth was standing outside of his crease. England claimed that wicket and the batsman was rightly declared out. Those days, Tendulkar as a cricketer did not exist, but, game was played back then for the spirit of it and not as it is played in modern times. In my opinion this is "double standards" and not the non existent incident involving Tendulkar.

Posted by FatBoysCanBat on (August 2, 2011, 22:07 GMT)

Was it not Abhinav Mukund who removed the bails, as it certainly wasn't Dhoni!

Posted by Pebnet on (August 2, 2011, 22:05 GMT)

Flower's point that had Tendulkar been on the receiving end of an incident similar to Bell's and an English side had done that in Mumbai it would have caused an international incident....is this suggesting that the Indian crowd is barbaric and doesn't understand the game???

Posted by Rakim on (August 2, 2011, 22:03 GMT)

I think Bell was run-out and MS Dhoni showed great heart by letting him play. and I'm a Pakistan fan.

Posted by wiiCricket on (August 2, 2011, 22:03 GMT)

I don't know what to say but I personally feel that Indian Team showed a lot of character by re-instating Bell. Because, Tendulkar himself had been in a situation like that with Pakistan test match where he collided with Shoaib Akhtar and there was no big uproar in India at that time. So it is incorrect for Flower to say about putting Sachin in the shoes of Bell. Being a Pakistani, Dhoni and Indian team won my appreciation of true gamesmanship. England and NZL had been in bad waters with running out players with NO guilt whatsoever in past. Accept it Flower that it was great gesture from Indian team.

Posted by chad_reid on (August 2, 2011, 21:52 GMT)

AGREE WITH STRAUSS IF SRT WAS OUT PPL WILL BE OUT ON THE STREETS BURNING EFFIGIES IN INDIA LOL WHICH IS JUST HILARIOUSLY STUPID

Posted by MeraBharatMahaan on (August 2, 2011, 21:45 GMT)

Sachin is god. Please read about his greatness: http://blog.yahoo.com/_YC2PEQ34OS7WNX4ARD2QMHSFCQ/articles/117004/index?bb=0

Posted by Hurricane08 on (August 2, 2011, 21:40 GMT)

If a batsman cannot be run out if he's not attempting a run, then the stumping rule needs to eliminated. When a batsman is stumped, he is outside his crease, but not attempting a run. Rules either need to be followed or eliminated completely from the rule book. Murali was run out while walking up to congratulate Sangakarra, Inzamman ul Haq has been declared out in several weird ways - but in all cases, a rule from the cricketing book had been violated. Sprit of the game entails, reinstating a batsman who's not out as opposed to a batsman who's out as in Bell's case. But it is fascinating the Andy Flower doesn't remember that Sachin Tendulkar was run out after colliding against Shoaib Akthar in Eden Gardens. The crowd boo'd, but there was no riot and in the end, the rule book was respected.

Posted by sirvivfan on (August 2, 2011, 21:37 GMT)

Rubbish out of order to approach the opposition changing room to ask them to reconsider the decision. Sets very dangerous precedent in cricket. That's why we have rules and you cannot make exceptions. Making exceptions when it suites you is tantamount to not playing in the spirit of the game. I have watched and taped plenty of cricket I cannot ever remember England players and the public ever applying the spirit of the game principle! Some teams when touring England are treated badly from the start. Don't want to name them, but most people will know who I am taking about. Riz

Posted by Buggsy on (August 2, 2011, 21:36 GMT)

Spot on Andy. If indeed this was Tendulkar (or anyone from the Indian team for that matter), they'd be threatening with boycotts and burning effigies in the streets.

Posted by   on (August 2, 2011, 21:34 GMT)

Ian Bell was out plain and simple. England need to stop being such sissies. i wonder had the situation been reversed if England would have done the same.

Comments have now been closed for this article

TopTop
Email Feedback Print
Share
E-mail
Feedback
Print
ESPNcricinfo staffClose
Tour Results
England v India at Cardiff - Sep 16, 2011
England won by 6 wickets (with 10 balls remaining) (D/L method)
England v India at Lord's - Sep 11, 2011
Match tied (D/L method)
England v India at The Oval - Sep 9, 2011
England won by 3 wickets (with 7 balls remaining) (D/L method)
England v India at Southampton - Sep 6, 2011
England won by 7 wickets (with 5 balls remaining)
England v India at Chester-le-Street - Sep 3, 2011
No result
More results »
News | Features Last 3 days
News | Features Last 3 days