Eng v Ind, 5th Investec Test, The Oval, 3rd day

Spirit departs sorry India

The details of India's capitulation at The Oval did not bear repeating as even their Man of the Series, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, gave up the fight

Sidharth Monga at The Oval

August 17, 2014

Comments: 182 | Text size: A | A
Laxman: Kohli, Pujara should not doubt their abilities

Capital punishment is rare in India, with only four executions by the state since 1995. It has, rightly, stopped being a public spectacle. Yet, if you still want to see what people walking to the gallows look like, look no further than India's last day of the series. The Oval is infamous for its pigeons. On the first day, MS Dhoni tried to shoo them away with his bat, from close range, but they would not budge. Even they didn't come to watch on Sunday. They must have been bored by the mismatch. They wouldn't have had the heart to watch the final execution of India's spirit in all its gore.

On the final day, they conceded 101 runs in 11.3 overs and then got bowled out in 29.2 overs. There were players trying to prove their performances earlier in the series were no fluke. There were players fighting for their places in the side. There were players who had to prove their reputations had been well-earned. Yet, confusion, meekness and poor cricket reigned.

How they got out was merely details, but even the incredibly generous appraisers in the India team and the board will be aghast at Gautam Gambhir's dismissal. To get him back in the squad was a regressive move in the first place. To play him in the XI more so. To play him again was the sign of a side who couldn't be bothered to care. Gambhir was never the most talented batsman India have had, but it was his fight and gumption that made everyone root for him. He made a Test career out of punching above his weight. Here he got out trying to run away from the strike. With rain in the air. With lunch seven minutes away.

In fact the players didn't even wait for the third umpire to watch the replay. They went off immediately. Gambhir was the only man who waited. Last time he came to England he was accused of hiding behind an injury. He was now walking off with an average of 6.25 in the series, having lasted 19 excruciating deliveries, having tried a single that never was, and having not dived to make his ground. It is out of line to question anyone's courage when it comes to sport but it will be fair to say the attempt at the single showed he didn't fancy facing any more of James Anderson.


Not again: Virat Kohli looks back as the slips snap up his edge, England v India, 5th Investec Test, The Oval, 3rd day, August 17, 2014
Virat Kohli heads off one last time as India were put out of their misery © Getty Images
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That brought together Cheteshwar Pujara and Virat Kohli to bat out of their station once again. One final time. With scrambled minds, exposed techniques and questionable support staff behind them. They are millionaires. They are in their mid-20s. They have scored centuries in South Africa and New Zealand. Kohli has won ODIs off his own bat. They have done nothing of note on this tour. They aren't even slip fielders. They will be hurting. Schedules created by their board give them no time to work on their techniques. It is out of the question to expect them to make time. Surely, even if they wanted to, they can't opt out of the BCCI's marquee events because they want to become better Test batsmen?

Pujara got out to a ball that he would normally have left alone even if it had a cake on it. Kohli tried to whip through midwicket an outswinger from off. This was resignation if ever there was any. It was him saying, "Nothing is working, what the hell, let me try my one-day game." There will be time for it, Virat. And it won't be easy. India haven't won an ODI on their last two overseas tours.

 
 
Ramesh Mane stuck pictures of gods and religious chants on the dressing-room wall. He might as well have removed them after the first session of the Test. There is no god who could have helped this team
 

ODIs are what their captain was born for. Dhoni has gone from good to ordinary as a captain in this Test series. He has been awful as a wicketkeeper. Yet, as a batsman he has been brave and selfless. Having moved up to No. 6, he has played the game he knows, and let the balls hit his body when he has had no idea. The ball that got him in India's final innings might have cracked a rib but wouldn't have got him out last week.

Bhuvneshwar Kumar has bowled 172.5 overs in this series. His pace has dropped. He has looked tired. Yet the accuracy hasn't left him. Over after over he has been nibbling away. He has been one of India's four best batsmen too. No matter how tired he has been, no matter how dispirited, he has fought hard for every single run because it is him who has had to defend them. He has made England earn his wicket almost every time. He has been India's spirit of this tour. He has been their conscience. He was named India's Man of the Series by England coach Peter Moores.

India should have got a picture of Bhuvneshwar and stuck it up in the dressing room. When they didn't feel like putting up a fight - and how much can you blame them given their techniques and the state of mind they were in? - they should have looked at Bhuvneshwar's picture and reminded themselves they have to fight for him. He is human, too. He can be forgiven a stray thought, "Who am I doing this for?" He can be forgiven the stray wild drive that signals the leaving of the last bit of spirit.

The day before this Test, Ramesh Mane, the team masseur and the general good old man, stuck pictures of gods and religious chants on the dressing-room wall. He might as well have removed them after the first session of the Test. There is no god who could have helped this team.

Sidharth Monga is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

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Posted by   on (August 19, 2014, 8:42 GMT)

Fact - Indian teams overseas performance has always been poor, why blame just this team. People are talking as though India has always been doing great overseas. Apart from some magical performances, they have all struggled overseas. We have seen Indian team that could hardly get past 100 in south africa years ago and yes, that team included Sachin. The moment India tour England, everything changes. Their pitches are curated totally differently. They use a different ball specifically designed for swinging. They do the same with teams like Australia, England will be a dead duck. The fact is the England team is also a ordinary team just that their opposition should be able to use their conditions. India could not, may be because of lack of experience, lack of help from their coach, whatever. But there are lot of other teams that can do it in England. If not, England should be winning all their tests overseas too, but that is not the case.

Posted by   on (August 19, 2014, 8:36 GMT)

And we have a dozen would be captains waiting for a chance, isn't it? People are talking as though India has hell lot of options for a captain. When they themselves are saying Test cricket is a far more complicated story, how can somebody who is not even experienced come into the team and head them in tests? When his fielders are not supporting him, he has to try out bizarre field settings. His bowlers do not follow him so he has to set a field such that they bowl the line and length he wants them to. His batsman have failed the whole nation, to be frank. Not learning from their mistakes, if they realized it that is, is criminal when playing for a nation. If you really have to question, then that should be Fletcher's role. Being a coach, he is responsible for keeping their morale up, work on the player's negatives. Being a Brit he has done nothing to teach the young guys how to play in England. Why don't anybody talk about that?

Posted by Abaa on (August 19, 2014, 7:51 GMT)

and it all started with the catch that Jadeja dropped off Cook ... What a momentum shift that created

Posted by Nutcutlet on (August 18, 2014, 21:14 GMT)

I note that many Indian fans are focussing on wholesale changes in the compostion of the team. IMO, this does not get to the root of the problem. India needs to let Dohni walk away from the Test side, or at least from captaincy and w/keeping. His heart is not in the job and, honest man that he is, he knows that in his heart of hearts, he cannot handle the multifaceted aspects of captaining a team in the field in a Test match. Some of his fielding placements (no third man; keeping a leg slip in a defensive field set) are just plain bizarre. He knows format cricket; he thinks that TC is the same. Well, it just isn't; it's a far more complex and nuanced business. Most tellingly of all, he does not hurt after a total humiliation. If it means little, then it won't hurt. India needs a captain that will be spurred on by national pride, who is prepared to admit that thumping defeats DO hurt! MS can stick to the ODI/ t20 stuff. He's played out in TC.

Posted by Nampally on (August 18, 2014, 21:11 GMT)

A clever Captain would have used the Lords Test Win to apply stranglehold on England & finish them off at the Southampton. I blame the shift of Momentum to England in the Third Test solely on Dhoni. This defeat at the Oval was so bad that as an Indian fan I feel more humiliated than the Indian Cricketers. Everyone has pride in the job they do whether it be playing Cricket, Tennis, practicing medicine or Engineering professions or just farming. When a team takes such a bad beating - back to back innings defeat from an average England team which was written off after Lords Test by the media, it begs the question: Do Indian Cricketers have any self pride? When you represent your Nation in a Test match, India has put its faith in their team. Why are these guys are so pathetic with huge lucrative contracts of up to $.75 Million (US)? Indian Women Cricketers who do not get paid beat the Professional England Team in Test 1. Is India paying wrong guys big Bucks?

Posted by JJJake on (August 18, 2014, 18:57 GMT)

T20's are too long for India. I think they should just play T10s or T5's.

Posted by TheProfPak on (August 18, 2014, 17:50 GMT)

@safco786 : 'coz BCCI thinks that soon there will be no cricket except in India.

Posted by cricket_lover1 on (August 18, 2014, 17:05 GMT)

India need to induct raw fast bowling/spin bowlers just like other countries do. MOST IMP - Please find out two fast bowling alrounders wo can play at the test level. Also India should have 2-3 fast and bouncy pitches like Perth (May be in Nagpur,Banglore & Chandigarh) and Indian domestic level matches should be played there apart from playing in spin friendly pitches. That way bowlers can develop the skills playing in different kinds of pitches not just one type. Indian players basics needs to be corrected hence the quality of the domestic level cricket needs a huge correction..BCCI has money but not sure where its been invested. BCCI should encourage domestic level players by paying them well for the domestic matches, that way players will be willing to play test matches and will not just focus on IPL to make money. There should be prizes for Top Five batsmen/bowlers/fielders & that will also make the pool for selection in the national team.

Posted by safco786 on (August 18, 2014, 16:55 GMT)

I do not understand why BCCI does not let indian players play in outside leag? Specially England, Australia and westindeis. Where Indian players failing all the time. Indian players should have experience.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 16:44 GMT)

It is not a bad thing to loose but it is bad if you do not learn from your mistakes. Losing the first test brought down India's confidence, I don't know whether they have some sportsman spirit left with to show some fight even when losing. 5th Test was on our Independence Day, At least one meaningful session would have given us some pride. Indian Cricket Team have some pride for your nation while playing, we needed a good fight thats all. When you don't take pride in the game, you can never win or show some fight in the game.

Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Dhawan, Jadeja pls show some spirit in the game, don't embarrass the nation and the cricket legends of India.

Posted by SachinRao on (August 18, 2014, 16:39 GMT)

We didn't have a exemplary record overseas to begin with. But going down with a fight is a case sans pardon. I would suggest: 1) We should have a longer camp before important series and have sufficient practice matches to ensure we acclimatise to the conditions. 2) Sack Dhakkan fletcher and gang. I suggest we use seasoned coaches. Lalchand Rajput as head coach and Pravin Amre as his assistant & batting coach. We need to fill in a bowling coach such as T.A. Sekhar or McDermott. 3) Enlist services of a renowned sports psychologist on a regular basis. 4) Replace all the football, volleyball and golf with more old fashioned cricket. 5) Give chances to budding in-form cricketers even if we need to drop big names. Naman Ojha, Sanju Samson are a few names that come to mind. 6) Rotate the bowlers. Umesh and Aaron to be used alternatively. 7) Have a spin camp and look to develop a genuine wicket taking bowler.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 16:37 GMT)

Well, nothing new. In last 3 test matches, I was watching cricket match, movies and news concurrently. I was shocked to see that whenever I was changing the channels wickets tumbled. Indian players were totally out of form, lack of footwork and less confidence. It seems that they only love to play IPL and earn money. This whole team should be sacked and bring new talent. Dhoni should be sacked from the test captaincy and gives it to any bowler rather than a batsman. Dhoni is only good for one dayers.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 16:36 GMT)

i shudder to think what Johnson in his current avatar will do to this lot. and it also brings to light, if it was not already apparent, the greatness of the past generation. it has been a privilege to have seen Tendulkar, Dravid, VVS, Gangs, Jumbo and Sehwag together.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 16:26 GMT)

Excellent summary. It's time, team India! You have been short changing us (your supporters). Not too long when we short change you!

Posted by batman_gothamcity on (August 18, 2014, 16:08 GMT)

Over the years as I remember from 1990's we always keep on loosing abroad . Be it Australia (4-0 in 1991 ,3-0 in 1999, 2-1 in 2008 or 4-0 in 2012) exception of 1-1 in 2003/04 ., England (1-0 in 1991 , 1-0 in 1996 , 4-0 in 2011 and now 3-1 in 2014) exception in 2002 1-1 or a isolated win in 2007 . Same story vs WI (wins only after 2006) , SA , NZ (win only in 2009) and also lost test matches in Zimbawe . This period we had some legendary batsman (Viru, Sachin, Rahul , Laxman and Ganguly) and also great bowlers like Kumble , Harbhajan , Kapil and Zaheer to name a few . So this is nothing new how can we except this young team with its nourishment on IPL and ODI's over the year to win in English conditions ??? For us to taste success in Eng , Aus and other nations we require a comphrehensive 5 yr plan atleast . Hope the players and administrators are embarrassed enough to take some earnest actions .

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 15:55 GMT)

I agree with most of what FishTail has said! More so on Ashwin given the captaincy..he has proved that he is a thinking cricketer and more controlled and erudite! Let him be given the chance in the home series, assessed, and then take a call for the away series!

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 15:52 GMT)

One thing which is really bothering is calling this as a young team..Kohli is still evolving player and don't know for how long? Chateshwar Pujara should be looked at playing only at Indian conditions and that too only at test level as he does not have the pedigree to test at one day or T20...Only positive thing is Rahane in batting and Bhuvi as bowler who have the calibre of taking Indian team to the next level but he should not be burdened any further..

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 15:47 GMT)

Wrong selection is not the real issue.This is all what we got. Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, and Rahane, (and Rohit who was not in the playing XI), are as good as any other set of Indian batsmen we can think of.

It is high time, that we have to accept the reality. They just don't have the confidence & skills to tackle swinging balls coming at them at 135 plus speed.

They rarely face that in India. Even if Jimmy & Broad bowls with the same vigour and skills in India, they can 't generate the same effect. Our batsmen don't seek / take up English County assignments, either. Then how can they develop those skills?

When our 'current best' face it in the highly swing friendly conditions in England, they are "effectively' facing it for the first time, so to speak. What crushed them further was the rapidly declining morale & confidence. (Now, I know why the extras rush to the ground with towels during every break. May be wanting to give the batsmen the option to throw in those, and get back)

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 15:39 GMT)

What if Jaddu had taken `that' catch of Cook (who made 95) in Soutahampton? What if Rod Tucker had given Bell (who scored 160 odd) `out' of the first ball he faced from Pankaj Singh, who then had to wait another 69 overs for his first test wicket? What if Dhawan/Dhoni moved to catch Ballance's edge (who made a hundred) that split them off Binny, who failed take a wicket in spite creating chances? What if Cook was given out `lbw' when England was 10 in their first innings in Oval? All those above also played a part. I'm not defending India, in fact I stopped watching the match y'day, after their dreadful bowling and batting display, which I never had done before even when India was losing! Fletcher and his coaching team SHOULD GO...no question of waiting even till ODIs complete. If only the other opener had done a little better it would have boosted Vijay still further, as openers, especially, feed off each other's success; instead the failure at the other end affected his batting too!

Posted by FishTail on (August 18, 2014, 15:33 GMT)

I would be tempted to ask Rahene to open the batting if he is interested too. He has dont that extensilvely for long period of time and guy puts price to his wiket. Vijay and Rahene should be persisted down under. Pujara and Kholi are fine; I will have Rohit in at 5 and may be Raina at 6(who can bat with tail and be a decent slip filder and roll arm if need be). 7 is for wicket keeper- I prefer one with good glove skill and MSD is not the one. 8 is for Aswin regardless of where india plays. 9/10/11 Ishant, Bhuvi, Aaron, Shami, Yadav, (1 more for 5 macth series: consider other young fast bowling talent as well). if the team is playing in India, I drop 1 batsman to play Spinner (Leg Spinner or Left arm: variation). India should moved away from Gambhir and consider Binny, Jadeja and Dhawan only for shorter version unless they show some extraordinary skills that we have not seen yet. I am strongly against MSD as Test Captian: Aswin, a very smart cricketer is my Test Captain & not Kohli.

Posted by Night-Watchman on (August 18, 2014, 15:33 GMT)

How about filthy rich BCCI making it a policy that any test batsman should spend one country season in England, play under swing and on green-tops, taste some chin music and come up with reasonable figures. Only then they can be selected for the Indian team. How about the millionaire boys cutting some slack on their advertisement time and go spend a season in England? Will make men out of the boys. I had noted that IPL was the beginning of the end of test cricket in India.

Posted by wolf777 on (August 18, 2014, 15:19 GMT)

There is something else that is ailing the team not skills. Yes, playing on lively pitches do pose some headaches; however, how do you explain Moeen Ali. There's no way Moeen Ali has skills to bother Indians with his spin bowling. If he were to play Ranji Trophy in India, his bowling would pose little threat to batsmen. I suspect the reason is non-Cricket related and more that of management related. The Indian unit does not look like a happy bunch. It appears that they don't want to be there.

Posted by stumpedlloyd on (August 18, 2014, 15:16 GMT)

Here's the problem: Yes, the IPL invites inventive cricket and some of that has been a boon to test cricket. But the temperament is gone. Most of the shots the Indian players got out to were atrocious. All of you who were clamoring for Gautam Gambhir to play - really?! The first wicket within the first 10 overs is a given, so why even bother with a second opening batsman? The trouble is the BBCI will see no problem because, come the IPL, all these chaps will be heroes again and all will be well. The last three tests were an utter disgrace to anyone who loves cricket, let alone Indian fans. You need proper pace bowlers, people who can generate genuine pace and movement, not medium paced trundlers, and a couple of decent spinners to take 20 wickets. Moeen Ali - let me repeat that - Moeen Ali outbowled the Indian spinners. That is how horrible this side is. Are you telling me there are no match-winning spinners in a country that gave us Bedi, Prasnna, Chandrasekhar, Venkat and Harbhajan?

Posted by nisithchatur on (August 18, 2014, 15:07 GMT)

If you see this current team with the one in 90's when India never performed well outside subcontinent was because of bowling.kind of numbers of good bowlers now India have ,we never had them in 90's.Hope we would have same quality of bowlers in 90's when SRT was in prime form with RD,Lax,Azar we would have won matches then. Virat; He needs to learn from this series that Test cricket played in Sub continent and away is totally a different ball game. We have never heard these guys if facing any problems in batting gone to SRT,RD,Dada to take few tips.where SRT,RD,Dada,Viru and lax always used to consult with Gawaskar to help or advice them. We need Dada to be a Coach.he's the only guy with kumble who can improve the atmosphere of dressing room.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 15:03 GMT)

We had a joker in the pack which was not used effectively,Rohit Sharma. Poor guy Binny was given the chance to hang himself again, unless he gets a little more disciplined in batting. Never seen Dhoni so desperate to Play Gambhir in the Test match even though the 2 donot see eye to eye after the Asussie tour of 2012. Shikhar was just improving in his game when he was bid adieu. Why could not they try Naman Ojha who was called up to England, definitely not for the sight-seeing of London. Pujara has screwed up his game as he himself have said before that he has been trying some new shots to play in ODIs and we see the result here. Kohli has been thinking he is better than Sachin Tendulkar, people have said that of him, so ¨ I dont need any advise¨ is what he said at the beginning of the tour. I dont see him improving at all, since he uses his bat like a Pingpong bat, when playing his famous shot from outside the off-stump towards long on it makes an arc, like a ¨forehand¨ top spin.

Posted by Naresh28 on (August 18, 2014, 14:38 GMT)

What ever happened to Kohli? Is his private life affecting him? He is a shadow of what he achieved two years back. Sanju Samson should be tried at 4. Rahane should open with Uthappa, Manoj Tiwari should come in the middle. Naman Ojha as well. Saha should take over wicket keeping duties. The captain should be sent on a few months rest. Akshar Patel should come in as a spinner. Use Ishant, Umesh and Aaron as the three pacers together.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 14:13 GMT)

If only India had a slip cordon who can take regulation catches, the batsmen would have had less tall mountains to climb,. Who knows, with attainable targets, whether they would have fought the demons tormenting their minds better? I feel sorry for Dhoni. In desperation, he needed to think out of the box. Like sending Ishant at one drop, himself at two drop, and give Virat and Pujara a little more time to face Anderson and Broad.

Posted by Paddy789 on (August 18, 2014, 13:52 GMT)

With this series i guess Gambhir too played his last test !

Posted by Paddy789 on (August 18, 2014, 13:42 GMT)

Wonder how the likes of Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag etc performed in their first ever overseas tour by scoring 90s and 100s consistently, and see these youngsters. Now I know why they are legends !!!

Dhoni to quit captaincy but the question is who will take over, Virat, Big NO !!!

When Steve Waugh quit, Ponting was roaring in the cricketing world, as per me Virat has not reached at that level yet.

Posted by spinkingKK on (August 18, 2014, 13:39 GMT)

I don't know why people are still happy with Pujara. The guy may have good technique. But, he hasn't got the mental toughness required for test cricket. Things don't get this tough in the first class matches. So, he can score triple centuries there. But, in international test matches when you are playing in the opposition backyards, their fast bowlers get pumped up and when that happens, you should be ready for a fight - whether it is counter attacking like Tendulkar, Ganguly and Sehwag or taking the body blows to stay at the crease like Dravid. I am convinced, the guy hasn't got it. It was clear even in South Africa. Kohli has got it. If anything, if I have to retain one of them, I will retain Kohli. My suggestion is to drop both of them. Because, you just can't keep on failing and hope to get selected or ,worse, being made captain. Raina and/or Yuvraj can come back as the senior batsman. Manoj Tiwary, N.Ojha, Irfan Pathan should be in the team. Rehane can be given one more chance.

Posted by FishTail on (August 18, 2014, 13:36 GMT)

Its more of mental issue than talent for India. I am little dissapointed with Pujara, as he had right temperament for Test. Kohli still needs to get grip of test cricket. I dont think he has understood test cricekt yet! I was expecting few runs from him but not as much he gets in ODI. Bowling is decent, Bhuvi,Ishant, Aaron, Ashwin, Yadav; they are all good (nothing special) but what they lack is a good dressing room and leaders. I dont think Dhoni can be a reluctant captain that he has always been and perhaps its time for him to relinquish Test captainship to concentrate on defending the World Cup. Leaders like Zaheer, Dravid, Laxman, Gangyly Sachin, Kumble are no more aorund so captain has to lead! with limited talent Arjuna marshalled his men brillantly. What India need is a master tactician, leader for test cricket; they have talent to be world beaters, but captain has to keep reminding that they can score and get wickets and win wherever they paly, certainy that captain is not MSD.

Posted by vamkri on (August 18, 2014, 13:34 GMT)

India when it lost to Australia 3-0 in 1999-2000 it was the worst performance,but they went to Aus in 03-04 with so much of determination and "performed well". The same determination to "perform well" is missing from this side.Its a shame to the country,losing is not a problem but the way they lost the last 3 tests is a shameful act.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 13:18 GMT)

These young players lack technique,determination and temperament to succeed in overseas Test Matches. Few years down the line same problem will keep haunting them. I wonder whether in future we will be able to see them matching likes of Dravid,laxman,sachin,viru and Ganguly.Varun Aaron should have opened bowling every time for India.

Hats Off to England!

Posted by IndianSRTfan on (August 18, 2014, 13:17 GMT)

@BradmanBestEver: It's quite funny you say that because as far as I remember, Australia lost 3-0 in england quite recently. At least we managed a win. And Australia also lost 4-0 in India the last time they toured these shores. So much for second division of test cricket for India eh mate?

We didn't 'make' England look better. They were simply better, that's all.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 13:16 GMT)

Everyone talking abt change is captaincy but I want to know who will be next captain. As of now India have one guy who can be test as captain(kohli) but making kohli captain means spoiling another player. At this time apart from dhoni nobody can handle the pressure. India can do one thing bring shewag or harbhjan and give them a chance to lead the team. the sense of responsibility will also help them to perform coz in current squad nobody is ready for the leader role. few months are left for WC and making kohli a captain in not a good idea apart from kohli no body is ready this role. We should not take chance when we have to defend world cup. its not a time for blaming each other its a time to think for future. Shewag or harbajan can play for 2 -3 years by the time kohli will also get exposure otherwise give a chance to young guy(like SA made smith captain) and start the process don't expect anything Win/loss whatever just support the team and captain. give sufficient time to team.

Posted by Rabat_Seamer on (August 18, 2014, 13:15 GMT)

This is significant defeat of Indian team in recent years...hopefully,it might shed some lights to already-good Indian batsman to peruse in their performance which is also the ultimate opportunity for knowing the "unknown" about themselves and their game and coming out better than before--which is the best--and can play easily in any pitch in any conditions unlike the massive discord that Indian team displayed in English conditions and making Anderson and Jorden looks like anything but slayers. Its great to see England performing this good with all the elements of team work after so long..cheers.

Posted by nirnayghosh on (August 18, 2014, 13:10 GMT)

IPL and T20s have substantially reduced Indian players' temperament, skill, and introspecting from previous mistakes. Batsmen have the mind-set to bat for 20 overs, and the bowlers are fit enough to bowl only 3-4 over, both of which are banes for Test cricket.

Posted by Collis79 on (August 18, 2014, 13:06 GMT)

Indian players don't need to go abroad to learn to play on non-featherbed tracks, in any case, if Indian batsmen were successful against England in England as WIndies were in the 80s, you'd only have the English cricket reactionary brigade bleating "There's too many overseas players playing in our country we should restrict them". One of the answers to India's problems is very simple, put more pace into Indian wickets which would encourage not only more quicker bowlers like Aaron, but it would also help develope the techniques of future Indian batsmen when facing pace bowling. There is nothing you can do with this team because apart from Aaron, you don't have any pace bowlers which puts all the pressure on your batting and Indian fans have to understand that to win Tests consistently, YOU NEED TO TAKE 20 WICKETS!

Posted by glen1 on (August 18, 2014, 12:54 GMT)

@ JellybeanYorker and @DnJsh : Test cricket requires patience, a steady base where the basic necessities are met, and a encouraging environment from the near and dear for the delayed fruits, if any. These talented kids don't come from such backgrounds and definitely they have the skills to make the best of the lower level fruits. You cannot train them to persevere for the distant undefined results. There is a major tectonic shift in India where the pace of life has changed dramatically, and it is a luxury to while away and let the world go by. What emerges from this is excellent one-day cricket. Yes, it is a mistake to take talented kids from backwaters of India and put them in coaching hands of some alien guy; they will lose their confidence; enough said!

Posted by CricketChat on (August 18, 2014, 12:40 GMT)

B Kumar will never win a test series for a Ind. He may help win an occasional match or two, but not a series. His biggest weakness is lack of pace. At his freshest best, he is just about medium even that trails off as the day goes on. Even with swing good batsmen will have plenty of time to play/leave his deliveries. He can be effective in short formats where pressure of run rate forces batsmen to make mistakes.

Posted by nuka123 on (August 18, 2014, 12:02 GMT)

First thing is that if Dhoni knew that Bhuvi is tired, why did he included him in the playing XI? fresh legs like pandey could have been given a chance to prove himself, shami could have been brought back. When you know that some people are not playing well at certain positions then y repeating the same mistakes, Ashwin and Bhuvi could have been promoted to 4th and 5th and dhoni could have come at 1 down, who knows kohli, pujara and GG might have played better in the lower half. Utter disgraceful was the lack of energy and fight shown by the Indians. Bowling no balls was just inexplicable, what the bowling coach is doing? Dropping catches in tandem, what the fielding coach is doing? Dont know where the off stump was, what the batting coach was doing? And above all, dhoni looks tired, very tired, cant bend while keeping, cant judge the swirl, he is loosing his charisma and that midas touch day by day, Some changes has to be made to clean up INDIAN CRICKET

Posted by winner2008 on (August 18, 2014, 11:40 GMT)

@Rahul Tyagi Abvp, I like your suggestion even if its like a dream ;) For now, you should exclude ganguly from team management as it will cause two leaders. So my WC2015 coaching staffs are

R.Dravid(chief coach), S.Tendulkar(batting coach), Wasim Akram(bowling coach), A kumble(spin mentor) , Jonty rhodes(fielding coach), Laxman(special advisor to AUS conditions)

Ganguly (Chief selector)

lol, Dreams are today's answers to tomorrow's questions!

Posted by CluelessJan on (August 18, 2014, 11:34 GMT)

Its fun to watch the Indians fold in this fashion!!! during the recent past the Indian Cricket has become bit of bullies in my view with the big three saga, opting out of DRS. If you can't perform at least decently in England and against a team that was struggling then you are not big enough. India need a natural leader and I am afraid there does no seem to be ay in the side.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 11:27 GMT)

How many series abroad have India lost now ? This will knock the confidence out of their senior players let alone the youngsters time to bring back shewaq harbhajan yuvraj Zaheer they would have performed better prior to the series yuvi scored a hundred in the mcc v row it always makes me laugh when they call Kholi a youngster a guy who has played loads of matches what has he done on this tour also time to replace dohni as a captain give someone else a chance

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 11:23 GMT)

India should stop trying to "RULE" the game..Rather, they should concentrate on playing it better !! Nanda Soobben

Posted by Sultan2007 on (August 18, 2014, 11:11 GMT)

I was intrigued to see the list of lowest aggregate scores by Nos 3 and 4 batsmen in SA in 1992-93. Those gentlemen were Sanjay Manjrekar (one of our most technically proficient ever) and Sachin Tendulkar. Just goes to show that unfamiliar conditions are a test for the best and not reflective of talent and potential. SO I fully agree with both Ashley Giles and VVS that India has a strong engine room and certainly, Pujara and Johli should not lose heart. What would be enormously vlauable to both and indeed, the top 5 to spend a year playing County cricket. Even if this means foregoing IPL, it would be an investment worth making if they are really serious about their Test careers. You cant go down as a great of the game if you cant play the moving ball and certainly, for Pujara and Kohli, that should be the aspiration

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 11:07 GMT)

Both bowling and batting squad should be sent to a camp for extensive training in fitness and to practice on their skills. Batting squad performed very poorly. Bowlers did not much of a bite. Where are the future Tenulakar, Dravid, Ganguly and Kumble and Bhajji?

Posted by y4yoga on (August 18, 2014, 11:01 GMT)

After all these failures, Sures Raina can be given a chance as he is better than the current failures and one who is awaiting for a long time to get a chance. He is one who is best in slip catching and the Best fielder in the current Team.

Posted by BradmanBestEver on (August 18, 2014, 11:01 GMT)

India were so woeful they made England look much better than they actually were

We need a second division of test cricket to give teams like India more incentive to be competitive. Otherwise we will witness many more of these one-sided boring affairs

Posted by vish57 on (August 18, 2014, 11:00 GMT)

I wonder whether Indian cricket team was playing in England to win matches or learn English condition; if learning English condition is the only yardstick then have more "A" team tours; we write final exams to pass not to make mistake. Indeed laughable Indian team, a team that could neither bat or bowl or catch.

Posted by Udendra on (August 18, 2014, 10:58 GMT)

As a fan I would not pay to see one-sided series like these. A 5-match series with Sri Lanka would have been better and more competitive, given their excellent performance in England early summer.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 10:56 GMT)

i thought indian coaching staff should be terminated and new coaches would be make as this --- r.dravid(chief coach) , s.ganguly(batting coach &mentor), wasim akram(bowling coach), anil kumble(spin mentor) , jhonty rhodes(fielding coach), laxman(asst.coach)

Posted by gurusInd on (August 18, 2014, 10:38 GMT)

Bhuvi did a great job but really he is a skinny guy he need to build some muscles, also none of the Indian bowlers looks muscular everyone out of fuel after 2 tests. In early days look at Ishant's speed (his legendary spell against Ponting at Perth becomes history now), he has dropped 5-15kmph, also not consistent with his pace. Before addressing any issues BCCI has to bring some fitness trainers like Charles Glass/Kris Gethin/Jim Stoppani and make these bowlers little muscular, at least this can increase 5 to 10kmph extra pace/stamina when you go for longer test series, take Mitch even at 30+ look at his pace. Apart from that, Bhuvi has to learn late swinging and also if he increase 5-10kpmh speed sure he will be a complete bowler, can challenge any batsmen.

Posted by vish57 on (August 18, 2014, 10:38 GMT)

It is time to rest Dhoni from captaincy in all form of cricket till Australia Test series; he can resume as captain for the triangular ODI series with AUS & Eng and for WC 2015. No doubt beyond Dhoni, no one commands his place in playing XI by performance, still try Kohili or even Raina ( definitely Raina can play better cricket than Binny or Rohit Sharma).

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 10:38 GMT)

These days, many people are talking about Dhoni's retirement from Test Cricket but what is guarantee that Indian team can perform well in Test Cricket if Dhoni retire from Test Cricket. When India did not perform well last time in England and Austrailia, these people talked about Senior player's retirement from Indian Team... We should keep patience and support our Indian Team... They can perform well in the future tour... This is only bad time for Indian team and it will pass away very soon.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 10:32 GMT)

In my opinion in the past cricketers like sachin, ganguly, dravid played county cricket for a while and they were successful in English conditions, so my advice to current Indian team or BCCI to allow players to play county cricket so that they can improve there skills, prepare mentally and used to play hard cricket so that they can improve in the future, see other team players go and play county cricket and become better cricketers

Posted by y4yoga on (August 18, 2014, 10:18 GMT)

Hot Openings in India now 1. TEST OPENER

Skills required- Should Bat a min of 200 Balls each innings, and socre 50s , 100s, and 200s at regular intervals. good in slip catching.

2. ALL ROUNDER(Batsmen cum spin bowler probably leg spin)

Skills required- Should be able to add 200 Runs along with the tail and bowl occasional spin and pick up couple of wickets.

3. SEAMER

Skills Required- Should bowl a min 143 kmph, ability to remove min 3 of the top 6 Batsmen in quick succession. get some handy runs at the lower order if Required.

Benefits-- Good package, Grade A in Contract, some awards in sports category at regular intervals, will be groomed as Future captain, Lots of Ads etc etc.

Posted by Mervo on (August 18, 2014, 10:13 GMT)

India is a proud cricketing nation but they have some real challenges ahead for themselves. They can maintain the current approach of some in-country victories on pitches that are one-dimension and often dubious at best, or embrace a new approach and gives their many passionate supporters hope for a real future in the world game. It can be done and would be good for cricket in its longest and truest form.

Posted by y4yoga on (August 18, 2014, 10:01 GMT)

first of all one should play 5 test series in home and then they should play a 5 Test series away. all of a sudden if you play 5 Test series from nowhere, This what happens... misery misery misery

Posted by y4yoga on (August 18, 2014, 9:57 GMT)

England out of form--- England calls India for a home series..... India out of Form---- India calls WI for a home series..... WI out of form-----calls Ban for a home series.... Looks like a cycle

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 9:51 GMT)

In the past 6-7 year, cricinfo has become my favourite habit. There is hardly a day when i hadn't visited cricinfo at least once, even during my exams. Sometimes I even check 2-3 times a day to see if any interesting article has come up; gobble up almost everything that's on offer. But these last 2-3 weeks have been a major exeption when i kind of fear to open cricinfo. The reason being this awful performence from this Indian team. Really really hate to see this sorry state of our team. How shamelessly they have surrendered ! Even during the last tour in 2011, I wasn't so disheartened as i kept myself comforting saying that all these are cricketers at the end of their careers - it would be only the way up from now on. But all hopes are now shattered, because clearly these so called bunch of next Tendulkars, Dravids & Laxmans are not of that quality in reality. :-( :-( :-(

Posted by Coolcapricorn on (August 18, 2014, 9:49 GMT)

@John_Geo - Spot on mate, at least the Indian women fought with real grit & determination - totally absent in our men's team - despite having no less than eight Test debutants in their match against England. Surely the women can't do any worse but sadly they don't even get a fraction of the riches & stardom than our over-rated men's team do! I say this as a man but hopefully BCCI will now open their eyes in rectifying this imbalance between how they treat & reward their men's & women's teams.

Posted by rsurya on (August 18, 2014, 9:44 GMT)

Main reason for Dhoni IX failure is Virat Kholi's out of form. Dhoni IX was riding on kholi's performance for most of their wins. In Lord's it the England's out of form that resulted in Dhoni IX's win.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 9:39 GMT)

Dhoni need to walk out of Test Team. that is the only solution since he cannot play under a different captain in Test even if he qualifies based on his score in England. Is the selectors listening.

Posted by John_Geo on (August 18, 2014, 9:32 GMT)

Despite all negative comments, I am still certain India can make Aussies suffer in the forthcoming Australian series. All they have to do is replace 7-8 players of the men's team with women's. After all, it never says "India Men Vs Australia Men". All it says is "India VS Australia" which means each country can send their best 11 regardless of the gender.

Posted by highveldhillbilly on (August 18, 2014, 9:27 GMT)

I think the SA tour may have done more damage than good for Kohli and Pujara and India's batting in general. Both pitches were really flat, especially Joburg but the Durban pitch was also had very little in it for the bowlers. I think their relatively successful 2 test encounter masked the issues they were about to encounter in England. The pitches in NZ weren't exactly green tops either...

Posted by YorkshirePudding on (August 18, 2014, 9:07 GMT)

@SamRoy, that is a little unfair, we don't know how much leaway they are given, as I said why did Dhoni go on a shooting jolly for the day last week when the rest of the team were practicing, and why wasn't he fined for that. Imagine what would have been written if Cook had decided not to attend a training session 2-3 days before a test, while the rest trained.

Reading an article on the BBC Dhoni is a little none committal over his captaincy future BUT it he seems hes resigned to the fact he might have to step down.

I would give Fletcher and the coaches another series or 2 with out Dhoni before demanding their heads.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 9:06 GMT)

The best paragraph of the above article - "The Oval is infamous for its pigeons. On the first day, MS Dhoni tried to shoo them away with his bat, from close range, but they would not budge. Even they didn't come to watch on Sunday. They must have been bored by the mismatch. They wouldn't have had the heart to watch the final execution of India's spirit in all its gore."

Posted by AB_DeVilliers on (August 18, 2014, 9:02 GMT)

Ozzies must be licking their lips at the sight of this pathetic Indian team. I reckon they will see it as an ideal opportunity for some match practice, and to rest some of their key world cup players. Won't be surprised if Maxwell bats at 6 for them. How bad is India though? My goodness...

Posted by forhad1976 on (August 18, 2014, 8:50 GMT)

Out side of India they are always poor team! They are not like what they think. India have to try to learn how to play test cricket.... Its great shame for India!

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:48 GMT)

Ashwin as captain ?? are u having a laugh ?? .. On his current & previous performances , he should not even be allowed near the Indian team ever....

Posted by Worldcricketlover on (August 18, 2014, 8:42 GMT)

Dravid is batting coach my god. Please check BCCI. He was asked to talk and share his experience before first test . He was not batting coach. We all know that dhoni wanted to run the team as he wish . The result is here. The minimum criteria to become test captain is that The captain at least should have captained ranji team or can be selected in international Test format. Dhoni is not fulfill that requirement . No doubt except his selection of Jadeja in first few games , the team selection was good. The batting was result of IPL. Yes Once IPL has started , even great sachin laxman and dravid too were not consistent so what you expect from new players ? Why English county cricket was blocked to play in IPL ? What was performance of Zaheer or shree after country stint. It was exceptional even on Indian Pitches ? Still nothing will change. IPL has destroyed Indian cricket . It is unrecoverable loss. I know from now onwards BCCI will reduce overseas tes

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:40 GMT)

I want share dhonis tactics in Australia past tour dhoni played sachin , sehwag and gambhir by number any two can play in 1match because he says field is big these players gives 3-4 extra runs but in final he played all three .it shows he give uniq reasons to hide his mindset for these certain players

Posted by hghghghg on (August 18, 2014, 8:39 GMT)

the wi tour shld primarily focus on finding an opener in tests dhawan is a street level player who can only give u performances in odis find a player with sound technique and capable of grinding it out this indian team needed a wake up call and it cant get any bigger than this im afraid bcci needs to release test specialists like rahane pujara vijay to play in english county cricket otherwise forget team totals of three digits in autralia our batting failures reflected the damp spirit in our bowlers too!just dispirited performances!they need to show tht they are willing to fight it out this is test cricket not odis cmon!so what if this a young team five tests shld hv shown some improvement not such disintegration at least players hv made their debuts here and got hundreds u got five matches this is shameful for all of us fans i dont think dhoni cares abt tht much.we hadthe same system of domestic circuit tht produces players who cld do well in all conditiions why are we blaming it now

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:31 GMT)

Guys this team is finding hard to play 130kmph to 140 kmph. Imagine Jhonson Harris giving 145 to 155 as even Watto bowls around 140. I fear this batting would even last 50 ovr including both innings.

Posted by johnathonjosephs on (August 18, 2014, 8:24 GMT)

I said it once, and I'll say it again (as I have been since 2011): Dhoni is not fit to even be on the playing 11 of the Indian Test Team. His batting has never been good and as for captaincy, he keeps himself in a T20/ODI fielding mind and is not aggressive enough. His strange captaincy has worked in the limited overs format a few times (partly because he is on the of the greatest limited overs finishers in the history of the game), but in Tests, he is not that good. Even the rise to the #1 test ranking was based on a team that he inherited from Ganguly (Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Zaheer). The team that Dhoni has put together is nowhere even near that class. Since he has taken over the captaincy, his test record abroad has been one of the worst in the world. Dhoni needs to either retire from Test cricket or the BCCI must drop him. 3-4 50's in the entire 5 match series and fans are convinced he's good, but look at his batting average for the series: 34. His captaincy has also hurt team

Posted by GRVJPR on (August 18, 2014, 8:21 GMT)

People keep calm and perspective. If Ricky Ponting can be a FLOP in India over 5 tours with highest score of 22 until he got 100 on his fifth tour and still called as Great, this is Virat's first flop tour. I don't know if PUJRA can comeback or not, but someone soon will pay by Virat Kohli.

Posted by saicoverdrive on (August 18, 2014, 8:19 GMT)

I don't feel sorry about the loss. In deed I am surprised they won one test. Among the so called specialist batsmen, no one showed patience or character. They were probing the balls that were well outside the off stump , let alone the ones in the corridor of uncertainty. I am not entirely sure about the need to include Jadega in the squad, considering there are other options.

Sanju Samson / Naman Ojha are superb alternatives to Dhoni, who has not shown decent keeping skills / decision making as a captain. Naman was the top scorer among India A squad that visited Oz, and Robin is in pristine form. It was a shame that neither of them were taken to England. Dhoni wanted young agile players, when Sehwag & co were phased out, wonder why Dinesh Karthik or Naman were left out.

Umesh Yadav did well with the ball and bat when India A visited Oz, poor fellow was left behind as well. The Indian selectors need some serious thinking ahead of the world cup

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:16 GMT)

remove duncun fletcher and bring dravid as coach

Posted by Nutcutlet on (August 18, 2014, 8:15 GMT)

It seems to me that there's no appetite for TC in the Indian players generally. MSD's ambivalence has long been known & the captain of a team so often sets its culture. Meanwhile, the BCCI (spending a great deal of time rubbing their hands together at the thought of all the money made out of this 5 Test series) couldn't care less either. They're not interested in TC, but in the profit that can be made from this 'product'. To make lots of money from an enterprise there has to be a large, willing market. That's everyone who enjoys the game, understands it & cares about it - in other words, all of us. In any transaction there has to be mutual trust. As cricket lovers we take on trust that every match we choose to pay to watch, we'll see two teams, each committed to doing its best to win the game whilst observing the laws. If there's a breach of trust, then the customer has been cheated. I feel cheated. India did not try & no one seems to realise that this is the deepest betrayal of all.

Posted by Tysonlanka on (August 18, 2014, 8:11 GMT)

Why on earth did India go to play 5 TEST??? BCCI should have done a study

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:08 GMT)

its k guys, it happens in sports, i fully support our hereos, everybody is a king in their own den, now everybody is saying good words about anderson and broad, atleast v were with our best players, not in same case with this teams where usually they get sidelined when they tour our country stating a reason of they r injured , if they are really good then they shud tour our country with their best players, then they will see hw best v r , wht u say guys and mr monga

Posted by tambolisamir on (August 18, 2014, 8:05 GMT)

After this loss, cant understand the weakness of Indian team, Batting ? Bowling ? Fielding ? Captain ? Coach ? failed in every department. Team should try out back up of these players against WI in home series next month.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 8:04 GMT)

@ SamRoy We can ask Donald if he can coach two teams. Dravid as batting coach is apt. Don't think Ashwin will do good as captain. If he is captain we have to take him in every match.

Posted by Amit_4_Sachin on (August 18, 2014, 7:45 GMT)

After the third Test, Indian team was deflated, and losing important tosses made it more difficult. Chin up, guys, at least you fought hard for the first three matches.

BCCI should take note & arrange short series in future.

Posted by SamRoy on (August 18, 2014, 7:28 GMT)

Sack captain (MSD), coach (Duncan Fletcher), Joe Dawes and fielding coach (Trevor Penny). All are rubbish. Bring in Ashwin as captain, Stephen Fleming as coach, Courtney Walsh as bowling coach and Dravid/Tendulkar as batting coach.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 7:22 GMT)

India's performance can be summed as under:- Murali Vijay - Valant in first 2 tests and villain in the rest 3 tests. Shikar Dhawan - dull, drab performance Pujara - Pathetic display in technic Kohli - King only in ODIs and Pauper in Test Cricket Jadeja - Over-rated cricketer. Rahane - Rose to the occasion in first two tests. Reeled below par performance in the rest Dhoni - Displayed dash in batting, Failed miserably as captain Rohith Sharma - Rash in tests, fit only for ODIs/T20s Bhuvanesh Kumar - Brilliant in 2 tests, bogged down in the remaining 3 tests. Ishant Sharma - Created ripples in Lords, chilled out due to injury and came back in Last test where he could not repeat his majic of Lords Mohd. Shammi - Promised much, petered out poor performance. Pankaj Singh - Poor guy lost out because of the butter fingered fielders. Stuart Binny - Needs temperament for test Ashwin - Shone in batter than as a bowler Fletcher - needs stretcher

- Lakshmi Narayanan, Chennai

Posted by ecricl on (August 18, 2014, 7:21 GMT)

No body seem to remember if Bell hadnt dropped Ishant in first innings India would have had 94 on both innings.....................

Posted by Coolcapricorn on (August 18, 2014, 7:20 GMT)

Just absolutely ridiculous how some fans want Sehwag back in the team - guess these same ones wanted Gambhir back too & we've seen for ourselves what an utter disaster this has turned out to be! Gambhir shouldn't have been in the squad, let alone the team! Much better to blood some hungry talented youngsters & let them gain invaluable experience for the next few years, even if the team continues losing but just pointless going backwards to the likes of Sehwag, Bhajji, Zaheer etc who are all truly well past their pomp.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 7:17 GMT)

I have no clue Why everybody targets MSD ? It is sheer batting failure of Indian Team in this series that counted. Look at the averages of 1 to 4 order ? You cannot play (forget winning) test matches with those averages at the top.

Posted by YorkshirePudding on (August 18, 2014, 7:10 GMT)

@ raj_n, its an interesting point, I don't know enough about Indian domestic cricket, but surely there are some promising players in the Ranji trophy. I would be tempted to give Kholi a run he seems to have his head screwed on, I would love to see what he could do.

As I've said before, the BCCI needs to start releasing players to play in foreign domestic leagues, either Grade/County or even in the Lancs Leagues where they will get used to the surfaces, I don't think any of the current indian team has played county cricket, one of the last was Dravid, and look at his scores in the 2011 tour.

Posted by yogicoolboy on (August 18, 2014, 7:06 GMT)

Indias young players should play more county cricket and play on seaming and swinging pitches, Then they will improve in foreign tours.

Posted by YorkshirePudding on (August 18, 2014, 7:02 GMT)

@FAB_ALI, To be honest, Dhoi shouldn't have gone on a shooting day on Tuesday/Wednesday last when he SHOULD have been training with the team.

While its difficult he needs to motivate players, in the field, not stand their and watch a catchable ball go between him and first slip.

As the captain and Senior player he should be instilling into the players when batting that they need to reach targets, even If mean leaving balls that are outside the off stump.

It would also help if they didn't play 15-20 minutes of football before the start of play, The England lads play touch rugby, to warm up and its only for 10 minutes, after that its into loosening up and fielding drills.

Posted by dirtydozen on (August 18, 2014, 6:58 GMT)

excluding pujara, rahane and kumar the whole team should be dropped, let sehwag be brought into the team as a captain(his record as test captain is good and whenever he led delhi daredevils, the team achieved a good position) and for the next test series, this should be my playing 11 1)Sehwag; 2)Jiwanjot singh,3) pujara;4) rahanei,5) kaif; 6)badrinath;7)uday kaul;8)kumar; 9)umesh yadav, 10)dhawan and 11) ojha/rasool/mishra as the spinner. And batting reserves should include Lokesh Rahul,Saurabh tiway and vihari and bowling reserves should include anureet singh, pandey and aaron

Posted by ruester on (August 18, 2014, 6:55 GMT)

The problem with attitude of India can be summed up by a quote from Dhoni "what does it matter if a side loses in three days or five days it's still a loss". I am sure the Indian public would feel a lot better if the side loses in five days having fought all the way to the end rather than roll over and die without ant fight. All out in under thirty overs....what foes it matter to you? Nothing obviously!

Posted by Lion_Wallaby on (August 18, 2014, 6:55 GMT)

Some Indian fans are trying to bring a logic saying that if SL played 5 tests they also could have lost 3-1. May be they are thinking SL also lose the last 2 tests by innings!. This is just a big joke with a big "IF"! SA back in SL also won 1-0. Now has any SL fan started saying that if they played 5 then we could have won? Please accept the defeat and praise the team played well! England was struggling and Cook was having his back to the wall after Aus and SL series. And how well they fought back! Suddenly Cook/Anderson/Broad/Balance they all are out of reach and Ali is bowling like a champion! Well played England. They totally outplayed India and India deserving losers and I am very happy!

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 6:39 GMT)

India seems to be loosing test match temperament thanks to IPL carnival.

Posted by raj_n on (August 18, 2014, 6:31 GMT)

There are calls for Dhonis head but who is supposed to replace him ? Kohli needs time to lick his wounds, Gambhir is as good as out, Ashwin bats well when the pressure is not on and sometimes gets tailenders out. The lesser said about the rest the better. The best thing to happen is the West Indies series. Everything will be forgiven and forgotten and life will go on. So let us move on guys. This Indian Board is not going to do anything that hurts their coffers. My sympathies are with the boys who will have to play 5 tests as per the futures contracts. They simply are not cut out for 5 test matches. Maximum limit should be 3 tests.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 6:05 GMT)

@ Michael Dickson....perceptive analysis, albeit a bit generous! The worrying thing for me is that, for the first time, I felt that there wasnt any pride in the dressing room. To lie down in less than thirty overs is outright ridiculous! Dhoni must go and go now. There may be a few years of pain ahead but we need a captain who is hungry. And the lest said about Fletcher the better.

Posted by gibbs.175 on (August 18, 2014, 6:00 GMT)

India deserved it .....carry on

Posted by FAB_ALI on (August 18, 2014, 5:57 GMT)

For all those blaming Dhoni for the loss, just an example: 1. What can a Captain do if he lose the toss? 2. What can he do if the opposition captain decides to bowl first in overcast conditions? 3. What can he do if his top five batsmen go out and get out within an hour. The answer to all the above is - Nothing. Now, 4. what can he do when he gets to bat - He can score a valiant 82 runs and take his team total to below par total rather than a mediocre one. 5. What can he do if his opening bowlers just couldn't produce a wicket defending a low total - again Nothing. 6. What can he do when each and every cricket expert has written his team off at the end of day one- Well, Nothing really......

Posted by FAB_ALI on (August 18, 2014, 5:52 GMT)

If India wins 3-0 against West Indies now, will anybody say they have emerged from darkness...NO!!!!! If India win at home people say they are flat track bullies and perform only in the subcontinent, then why not for England when they win at home and were white washed in Australia? The real blot which remains on Indian team is the 2-1 loss at home in 2012, this one was always expected.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 5:46 GMT)

It's just that there's no one answer to the zillions of questions that Indian team has raised on itself in this series. Comparing India with Srilanka is not a good idea because,after two tests,India were ahead 1-0 and that's how even Srilanka won the 2 test series. Like somebody has said, it's like England losing to Australia. They have lost the confidence, motivation, etc etc and there isn't much time to change your technique anyway. So, you hand over the series by bending your head for the last hit from the axe and come back. Dhoni's captaincy is the last thing to worry. Indian test cricket is clueless as of now. It needs a major rejig. It can't happen in a day. Players like Pujara, Rahane and Kohli need to take time off from the busy schedule, miss an IPL or so, get their technique right on quick and swinging surfaces like the ones in England and Australia. Above all, the teething problem for Indian test cricket has always been the opening. Sort that out first. VS & GG are long gone

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 5:42 GMT)

@Vijay Krish, You are wrong about your team. Bhuvi is a very good prospect, possibly the best India has produced in years. His pace is down right now due to the number of overs he has had to bowl in such a short time, with no rest provided by the batsmen, but once refreshed, he will be excellent again. Ishant Sharma, when in form, is very dangerous, and Varun Aaron will improve with more experience. So India actually do have a pretty good pace attack there, they just need to develop more. Umesh Yadav and Mohammad Shami haven't been as convincing yet, but they aren't bad as backup. It is really the fielding and batting that has to improve markedly, and that starts with the culture and attitude in the dressing room. Dhoni needed to really give them a rocket, but he never bothered. India needs a new test captain. Start from there, as that is the biggest concern I see. Nothing wrong with your bowlers this series, but your captain needed to lay in to the batsmen for being so meek.

Posted by balaji28 on (August 18, 2014, 5:39 GMT)

It's time to revamp the selectors and test squad.Only ashwin, vijay, rahane, dhoni, ishant,ishwarpandey,naman ojha and varun needs to remain in the squad and the rest needs to be dropped to show that "perform or perish" Kohli failed 10 times continuously and he need to be dropped and he should prove his worth in ranji trophy for atleast 2 seasons with some worthy performance to regain his test place and he shouldn't be given another chance for granted. Ranji trophy pitches should be made in a way to test the batsmen skill and flat tracks shouldn't be made during ranji tournament so that it helps in finding a best squad. Fast bowlers should be selected only if he bowls 140kmph or more with good line and length. Ashwin has proved in the final test that he is a worthy bowling all rounder that he can bowl well in tough tracks. Pujara,kohli,shikhar,gauti,stuart binny,jaddu,shami,bhuvi,pankaj and rohit needs to dropped and replaced by genuine players who can survive in tough tracks.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 5:34 GMT)

It is nonsense like this which creates unrealistic expectations. Bhuvaneshvar Kumar had a good series and played well but he is a pretty modest player. Here he is being made to look like a combination of Imran Khan and Sachin Tendulkar.

He is probably going to struggle outside of English conditions, especially with the ball which is his main suite, and dropping him will be very difficult because of the hype created around him because of articles like these.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 5:01 GMT)

What makes a good Test team is good opening batsmen and two really good new ball bowlers. Sadly we dont have any. Vijay and Bhuvi are ok but the former is inconsistent and the latter doesnt have the pace to trouble the batsmen continuously. Poor Dhoni we all blame him for the loses and simply ignore the fact that we dont have a proper test team to win matches abroad. Unless we find some raw talents from domestic circuit who can really fight it out in the middle, the results are'nt goona change who ever be the captain. Why not Sehwag be tried again for one more time. He might be key for the world cup too.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 4:47 GMT)

Now For Austrailian tour , If sehwag will be able to play again bring him in team as well as bhaji & ojha. Skill never replaced. My team would be: 1. Sehwag 2. M Vijay 3. Pujara 4. Rahane 5. Kohli 6. Rohit / Ashwin 7. Dhoni 8. Bhuvi 9. V. Aaron 10. P. Ojha/ H.Singh 11. U Yadav

Posted by YorkshirePudding on (August 18, 2014, 4:47 GMT)

@dunger.bob, Very good comments, and perfectly true, you have echoed just about everything that Sunil Gavaskar said during the rout yesterday afternoon and after the game.

The problem is that the BCCI are unlikely to do anything as they will forget all about the test series once they play the ODI's. They need to start at the top Drop Dhoni from the test team let him focus on ODI/T20 where his heart really is, then have a clear out, drop players that havent performed to give the others a proverbial kick up the backside.

Select players that play in the domestic 4 day games rather than those that do well in the IPL.

Finally Release players to play in Grade/County cricket so that they can play in foreign conditions.

Posted by Rufus_Fuddleduck on (August 18, 2014, 4:46 GMT)

There was a time where a Test series loss used to feel like getting a mule's kick in the abdomen. No longer. These people are doing a beautiful anaesthesia job - when you can't influence the outcome, take away the pain. Especially Dhoni. They themselves are desensitised with T20 moolah and it is indeed fitting that the last few innings lasted somewhere close to 20 overs than the norm of 80-100. 'Sad to see Pujara coming in early' - if the entire innings lasts 25-30 overs how was he going to be coming in late? And what of Kohli - the tough talk about how "I don't need to prove anything'? Sad part is the quality of opposition - in 1984-85 when we lost, England was worth a bit. That side took the Ashes (for perhaps the last time in nearly 30 years). This side has just been hyped up by India's performance. They absolutely don't have anyone who can score 500-odd runs or take 30-odd wickets in a series against Australia or South Africa. Yet today the English media are at their feet! Kudos

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 4:44 GMT)

please focus on duncun

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 4:29 GMT)

I am sure India women cricket team would have shown more spirit. Dhoni has to leave tests for good. India should choose not to play tests in alien conditions. Just play in the subcontinent. Oh! But Sri Lanka is playing better cricket.

So just play IPL and one day games in india! Reduce tests drastically for India as no one seems keen to fight it out for even 3 days. Leave alone 5 days!

As long as Dhoni's concept of "defeat does not matter", "only world cups count" , nothing is going to improve. He just does not inspire confidence as a captain.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 4:27 GMT)

India should not be embrassed by its failures but should learn from them

Posted by Kedars_DT on (August 18, 2014, 4:22 GMT)

No worries people. India come back from England, play champions trophy, test series against West Indies, win handsomely, we all hail the team. Then they go to Australia for test series, loose (again), Indian commentary panel on Star sports say "India's strength is ODI and T20". The entire country is foolish expecting better test match performances from our team when the experts from our country know that our strength is NOT test match cricket. In the world of "instant" results why should we wait for 5 days to get a result. Well that might be another reason that the last 2 test matches got over inside 3 days. Since the team is young and full of young blood they find it hard to survive for 5 days or should i say even 50 overs. On top of it, our superstar captain says don't be jealous of IPL when asked if the players are ready to skip it if they get a chance to play in county cricket for better exposure to English conditions.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 4:15 GMT)

Why so much of hue and cry over India losing a match? Take it sportly, man. Our boys have won many important matches in the past. I am sure, and you are also sure, they will win many more important matches in the coming days.Take it easy.Be optimistic, as you have always been.

Posted by sach194 on (August 18, 2014, 3:50 GMT)

series done and Test careers of Binny,Pankaj,Gambir,shikar done too

Posted by Sexysteven on (August 18, 2014, 3:32 GMT)

Yea they all looked liked they have given up India isn't good enough to play five test series it looks like all though abetter schedule would help and rotating the pace bowlers more would of been agood idea to keep them fresh cos even kumar look spent and there fore his performances dropped as a result so I blame the management for not managing there players properly I blame the selectors for selecting the wrong team every test I blame dhoni for poor captaincy and keeping I blame the bcci for all of these shambles it ain't going to get any better in Aussie facing Johnson on faster pitches good luck with that India your going to need it

Posted by explorer18 on (August 18, 2014, 3:17 GMT)

Gambhir's run out epitomizes the mindset of the team - Just run away from the test - let's not worry about the result. Not even think about the responsibility of representing a nation and a billion fans. The utter lack of professionalism is galling.

Lessons learned: 1.Split the captaincy. Test captain needs to last 5 days and take responsibility to lead the team. Dhoni made the best possible to case to be fired as Test Captain by showing the worst possible display after going 1 up. 2. Fire the coach - what did Duncan Fletcher bring to the team but shame in every overseas series? 3. Don't go for more than a 3 test series for India, since they all seem to lose interest and not even care to play after 3. 4. An independent investigation ( like with IPL) should look into what's going on behind the scenes to result in such a poor finish.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 3:11 GMT)

The true result of IPL. India should have a test team without t20 players.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 3:09 GMT)

Bring back Sehwag!!! He is one man who can rescue india now !!!

Posted by cric_gates on (August 18, 2014, 3:09 GMT)

Who will be India next test Captain?

1. Shehwag 2. Zaheer 3. Harbhajan 4. Aswin 5. Kohli 6. Rahane 7. Pujara

I will vote for Zaheer or Shehwag.

I still believe Zaheer have 2 more years left for Test cricket and Shehwag 3 years.

Posted by andrew-schulz on (August 18, 2014, 3:08 GMT)

Glen1, your words highlight the problem. You have to perform in foreign tough conditions. If they can't handle a 5 Test series away, they shouldn't be playing international cricket.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 2:43 GMT)

We all know India let every Indian down But we are in rebuilding process after the retirements of greats We hope we will show England our talent in one dayers and t20 cricket Let,s just back team India

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 2:40 GMT)

Why blame the shorter formats? I'm sure India has the resources, both human pecuniary, to develop specialist Test, ODI and T20 players if they wanted to

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 2:38 GMT)

India team's performance has never improved overseas bcozz they make runs when india returns home, having said that aus,england and other touring countries have played well in india,compared to India outside.See when u allow bad things to happen to indian cricket than nothing improves.As dhoni should have retired from test cricket when india lost in england last year.Mishra or ojha should have been there permanent spinners on tours.two three fast bowling all rounders should get more chances overseas.keep test match players out of 20-20 tournaments for a while like 2-3 years in beginning of their careers.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 2:34 GMT)

Very appropriate headline for the article and news it presents.

Posted by wake_up_india on (August 18, 2014, 2:09 GMT)

The problem is with the lack of accountability of BCCI which run as a private fiefdom. All else follows from the rot at the top.

Posted by dunger.bob on (August 18, 2014, 2:03 GMT)

.. Cont.

I thought England were over the top with their reaction, BUT, it does appear that it's already paying dividends so I have to say they've done a great job in fixing their problems.

So what, if anything, are India going to do? England and Australia, the two oldest and arguably proudest Test playing nations did not hesitate to swallow their pride, admit there were problems and take bold, decisive steps to fix their issues.

Can India do something similar or are they too locked in to their system to allow such a dramatic response to a disheartening failure. .. That's what I'm waiting to see.

Posted by Prashant0821 on (August 18, 2014, 1:52 GMT)

The Indian performance in England was a national disgrace, but this all will be forgotten in a couple of days. I have been following Indian cricket for the last 40 years - I do not remember India being dominant abroad as did the West Indies and Australia. India has never won a series abroad convincingly 3-0, or 4-0 or 5-0.

There is talent. The Indian think tank needs to come together and plan, strategize and make sure that there are no let ups in the future. The team simply cannot go abroad without any preparation and game plan in place.

For example, until the player has spent a full summer in England playing county or league cricket, he should not be eligible for selection for future England tour - there should be no primadonas.

This tour was a national disgrace and as an Indian my head bows down. Heads need to roll right from the top. Having said all this, as I mentioned at the beginning, things will be normal in a day or so. I hope I am wrong this time.

Posted by dunger.bob on (August 18, 2014, 1:49 GMT)

OK, it's been a pure and unadulterated disaster from India's point of view. It steadily got worse over the final 3 matches and culminated in yesterdays completely abject surrender. .. You know what, that can happen to any team given the right conditions.

The important thing is not that it happened but what happens afterwards. India made a few mistakes, that's for certain, but the REAL question now is what are they going to do about it. Are they going to act or are they just going to keep on cruising along as they are? .. the truth is most other teams will act. Here are 2 recent examples: 1] Aust. went to India in 2013 and were eviscerated 4-0. .. What did we do. We sacked our coach and MOST importantly brought in some-one who is more in tune with the way we do and actually must play our cricket. 2] Eng. in Aust. in 2014. were slaughtered 5-0 in the most carnal, blood thirsty way imaginable. What did they do. .. They tore themselves apart and rebuilt almost from the ground up. ..Cont.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 1:45 GMT)

I know he may be passed his time but please can India give a chance to Pravin Tambe on an international level I don't see why not as he played a important part for RR in the IPL

Posted by Ravs1504 on (August 18, 2014, 1:23 GMT)

As an Indian cricket team fan , i am embarrassed and humiliated by the sheer lack of fight. MSD sticking to his captaincy is the reflection of what is wrong in our current Indian society. Failure happen and the people in power refuse to step down. Its is beyond shamelessness.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 1:18 GMT)

Whatever result of T20s & ODIs...India's next fixtures againts the Aussies...not just test in batting,bowling, & fielding but test the verbal arguments to add more pressure to Indians mental strength...good luck facing that mate

Posted by PIA786 on (August 18, 2014, 1:17 GMT)

India should get rid of the IPL and concentrate on test cricket. It has ruined Indias test abilities as the team are not focused on 5 days of cricket.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 0:59 GMT)

When the team selection takes aback seat, what can one do? Gambhir in the 17 squad was wrong. To play him in the last test after one saw him in Old Trafford was horrendous. Does the indian selectors care for indian cricket? There are to a complete revamp right from the selection COMMITEE to the captain to the squad. But unfortunately they will make once meat of West Indies when the come here next month on turning tracks and once agin claim their supremacy .. False and unreal supremacy that would be.

Posted by MiddleStump on (August 18, 2014, 0:49 GMT)

I have not watched a more despondent Indian team in nearly 50 years. Even the 2011 team did not loose spirit so easily even though they lost 4 tests. This team won at Lords but lost it completely within a fortnight. It seemed most players would have preferred to take time off during the past three days and played this test only because they were under contract and had to. The infamous team of 1974 was condemned severely for their 'summer of 42' at Lords. However, that team scored 200 plus runs in at least one innings of every test. Here, the batting order from 1 to 5 was unchanged in the last two tests. But with big names and reputations they scored 157 for 20 in 4 innings. Clearly this was not only about talent and experience. Dhoni, Ashwin, Kumar, and Binny fared a lot better under the same conditions even though their technique and talent as batsmen is inferior to the top 5. The plain truth is that the top order batsmen quit when the going got tough.

Posted by   on (August 18, 2014, 0:42 GMT)

I have a feeling india will come back strong, the players they have are fighters and have the will and ability to hit back,this coming from a pakistani fan.

Posted by eddiehemmingswobble on (August 18, 2014, 0:36 GMT)

This series seems to have highlighted the widening gulf between. The traditional countries who view test cricket as the highest level of the game and those countries who seem to focus on the shorter forms. This England team has potential, but up against Australia or South Africa I feel the result would have been different. I find it mystifying that India agreed to a 5 test series. I mean when was the last 5 test series India played ? After the 3rd test they looked uninterested and their organisational skills were woeful. Don't blame Dhoni, he doesn't have the test pedigree of an England or Australian captain. Yet he was a big contributor with the bat, when his team were falling around him. This is a wakeup call for Indian Cricket. If you want to play test cricket it means actually having to travel outside of the sub-continent to places with "foreign" wickets that are built for pace, bounce, and swing that deteriorate over five days and are not slow dust bowls. Deal with it or fail.

Posted by amit_e33 on (August 18, 2014, 0:21 GMT)

Utterly nonsense performance. Heads should roll including captain's and coaches. Performance should be the only basis to play for India. No extended test cap for nay player. India is the worst of all test playing teams, personally rank them 10th. Loosing test in 3 days seems becoming a fashion for team India. Rather like watching India A playing all Test for India. Waste of time and money watching team India playing test. Nonsense performance...

Posted by Brahams on (August 18, 2014, 0:17 GMT)

In hindsight Gambir was a mistake. India should now find a solid opener with technique and patience. Vijay seems to be good though he had a couple of poor matches towards the end.

Perhaps, its time to consider a few players for tests alone - Pujara appears to be one such candidate. These players should consider a season or two in English counties. Kohli also should take up such an opportunity if he wants to be known as a better cricketer of India.

Remove Dhoni for tests. While I am a big fan of him he should take responsibility for the last three overseas debacles. What is his problem? He has never groomed good fast or spin bowlers, unlike, Ganguly. This is hurting India big time.

Leave out bits and pieces players such as Binny, Jadeja and even Ashwin. Leave out prima donnas such as The Talented Mr. Rohit Sharma. The batsmen should guard their wicket as if their lives depend on it.

And finally, improve slip catching! Geez, the Indian catchers were such an abomination.

Posted by sammysam on (August 18, 2014, 0:10 GMT)

Terrible selections, horrible captaining, atrocious coaching results in spineless cricket. Going back to Gambhir was a sign of things to come. Why not open with Rohit like in ODI's? Why not drop Kohli and bring in other batsmen in form. Why play bits and pieces cricketers? When will India learn they need a genuine leg spinner for overseas tests? The BCCI and stubborn MSD must take the blame. MSD must step down as test captain and wicketkeeper. When will the weak BCCI wake up and say enough is enough

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 23:54 GMT)

Something went terribly wrong since July 21st 2014. This thrashing is unimaginable.....something went wrong in the camp that we dont know about.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 23:48 GMT)

I feel sorry for Pujara and disagree with Mark - he got out to an absolute beauty- a snorter. I doubt many batsmen would have left that alone and it's a shame that he has such good technique- I doubt a tail-ender would have edged such a delivery.

That aside, India should focus on their mental conditioning as much as their technical right now- figure out how to stay calm amid a little carnage. You could see that only Dhoni had the gumption for a fight. His experience of playing with legends like Sachin, Rahul, VVS, Kumble and Sourav has surely helped him become a stronger test cricketer but these lads no longer have those guys to rely on out in the middle. So let's not have a knee-jerk reaction. The nucleus of a strong team exists and Dhoni is the man to build and develop it- keep faith and focus on shoo-ing out the demons that have crept into the minds of these young lads. That's what England did at Lord's and look how they fared.

Posted by Nampally on (August 17, 2014, 23:45 GMT)

It was shockingly sad for this Indian Fan to see his Team capitulated like no other Team in the modern times in the Test Cricket. I was shocked how pathetic batting this Indian Team has. I agree 100% with the Mr. Monga in all the Outs by various Indian batsmen. I had literally pleaded in these columns both for 4th & 5th Test to include "in-Form" Ojha as one of the bats. In addition I was shocked to see Dhoni's weird insanity of going with the same 5 batsmen in the same batting order after they failed Twice at the Old Trafford on a Fine batting strip with 66 for 5.At the Oval they were reduced 44 for 5. Any Captain with an iota of common sense will shake up the batting order after the Old Trafford collapse + drop at least 2 or3 of out of 5.Dhawan is lot better than Gambhir . At least 2 of the Top 5 guys needed to be replaced. Why bring back Binny instead of Shami? Dhoni batted superbly but was a "disaster as a Captain" - No winning attitude or tactics -"Focus on Process than Result"?

Posted by LK-LadyCric on (August 17, 2014, 23:33 GMT)

India was abysmal in this test series. Being a Sri Lankan fan, I have had my share of "I-don't-like-India-so-much" moments (substitute Australia, England for India at times). However, I was backing them to win against England in this series, and I truly thought they had the man-power capable of finishing England off in style. Dhoni cannot be called a bad captain. Kohli cannot be labelled 'out of form'. They might bounce back in the ODIs and you Indian fans may not be calling for their heads any more. Believe me, we Sri Lankans have NOT always been loyal to the likes of Mahela, Sangakkara, Matthews, Marvan, and even Jayasuriya. Us fans tend to crucify our players when a bad test series comes around, and then put them on a pedestal when they perform. The selectors DO have a job to do, but let's not jump to conclusions about the players' forms. Just my two cents' worth. :) I'm still supporting India in this series. Go India! :)

Posted by priya65 on (August 17, 2014, 23:32 GMT)

The root cause is money. These players are bloated by big money. Their board wants to dominate world cricket.. They call themselves part of the elite 3. Now when the elite 3 play against each other it willl stir lot of interest because of the demographics only. There is no class involved here. Sri Lanka puts up a fight in every game they play. They have many problems outside the boundary lines, but they play for each other and the fans. That is all cricket is about, play for each other and everything will come back. Technique is something the commentators magnify out of proportion. No one has a 100% technique, players should know their limits and minimize their chances of dismissal. India needs a concoction of Humility and team spirit thrice a day to get out of this rut.. It will also be helpful for Dhoni to appreciate other view points too.

Posted by wolf777 on (August 17, 2014, 23:29 GMT)

From the look of their faces it appears that they are not enjoying the tour. It looks as if they are not happy....Either there is some sort of conflict or Dhoni or the Coach's management style....Something is clearly going on which is hurting the team moral.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 23:29 GMT)

Need to change the management and leaders of the team. Test takes time maybe a vijay or pujara as captain for the team with a new keeper. keep Sharma umesh and Varon only for tests. with so many games it is hard for these guys to keep focus. Dhoni has to go.

Posted by spintl on (August 17, 2014, 23:23 GMT)

With a population of a 1 Billion, I cannot fathom, if India cannot field 3 teams - separate teams for Tests, ODI & 20-20 and pay the same amount for all 3 teams. Players should be given a choice to choose which format they would to be included and coached accordingly. That way, all the players would get adequate rest & also time to work on their technique. If the series are few and far between, players would be hungry also.

Posted by abstractCricFan on (August 17, 2014, 23:01 GMT)

When every single of your top six seems to be a walking wicket against the seaming ball, there's little a captain can do ...India was never expected to win this series but to go down in such humiliating fashion kinda undoes a lot of work that has been put in over the last 2 years as a part of rebuilding the team ...Will the coach really stand up here and take responsibility ...At no point in the last 2 matches , did it seem like anyone was willing to offer a fight ...

Posted by whirlaway on (August 17, 2014, 23:00 GMT)

Lest Indian fans lull themselves into thinking that the team will do better in ODIs, keep this in mind: In the past year, the Indian record in overseas ODIs (ex. Zim and BD) has been pathetic as well - 8 matches, 6 losses, 1 tie and 1 N/R

Widen the window to 2 years and it becomes - 11 matches, 7 losses, 2 wins, 1 tie and 1 N/R.

Take it to 3 years and it becomes 25 matches, 14 losses, 7 wins, 2 ties and 2 N/R. And this if we exclude the Asia Cup 2012 loss to Bangladesh!

So, don't be surprised if India loses the ODI series 5-0 or 4-1 to England (assuming no N/Rs due to rain etc.)

Posted by isitok on (August 17, 2014, 22:59 GMT)

@glen1: You say, "A five test series in a distant land, with alien coaches and a language that's not their main one doesn't help." That is the concept of test cricket. Testing yourself against the best in the world. It has been good enough for England, Australia, South Africa, West Indies, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand for decades. In recent years good enough for Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Admittedly not all have played five test series. You say, "The cricket that India likes is the ODI and the T20." What is the driving force? Is it because there is more money involved? You go on to say that, "they will fight the long fights, but only if the fights are realistic." In the past test cricket was a challenge relished by India. Are you saying that you believe India is now not good enough to play international test cricket?

Posted by Keithpandey on (August 17, 2014, 22:56 GMT)

ishwar pandey 'd have played this game instead of binny. he is tall strong n proven performer in fc n ranji matches,last season he was highest wk taker. he bowls with better pace n more consistency, hits the deck hard generate good bounce. strong boy belongs to ex army subedhar major's son. he bowls good out swingers.his ideal is "Kapil Dev".. why to waste such emerging talent, let binny earn name n fame in ipl plz do not do injustice to players like "Pragyan ojha"(got 10 wks in last test), amit mishra, manoj tiwary(lat odi inns 100v wi),badrinath(selectors made him rott).Praveen kr(the hero of 2011 series, bhuvi call him his mentor) Irfan pathan played 29 test n 100 wks with avg of 30 n batting avg of 35+ only seamer to claim a test ha-trick.still remembering the golden words of "amarnath sir" dhoni's place is not certain in test n was sacked.I'm from Jamshedpur Jharkhand n big dhoni fan too but still in pain to see him struggling in test. this series loss is also by injustice of "T"

Posted by Drew2 on (August 17, 2014, 22:51 GMT)

Amazingly, Kohli's innings took his run tally past James Anderson for the series, but in twice the innings!

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 22:46 GMT)

The only plus points - murali, Rahane, Bhuvi, Ishant Sharma, Dhoni , Ashwin as players who can perform or relied upon to perform when occasion arises. Kohli, Gambhir, Pujara , Jadeja, binny, shami as failures and need real net practice or put in solid performances in domestic circuit.

Posted by perl57 on (August 17, 2014, 22:44 GMT)

England won primarily because it is England. India lost primarily because they do not like to play test cricket. England won because they had better team that was ready to play foul at least for the sake of winning. Indians lost because they realized already having won a match they ensured the got passport and visa back to India.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 22:34 GMT)

"India should have got a picture of Bhuvneshwar and stuck it up in the dressing room." I could not have said it better myself. Its like the spirit and passion has been drained from the team. I must ask if they care enough because it looked like only the bowlers turned up for this test. I still dont know why Fletcher is persisted with. He and Dhoni have been the common problems. Dhoni is gone after next year and it would be best to bring in a new coach to get accustomed before his departure.

But what the dressing room need is some fight and fire in their bellies. Virat and Jad should play that inspiration role but have not. We need some character back...or the weak little Indian boys image will be back in town

Posted by bobbo2 on (August 17, 2014, 22:32 GMT)

Until India take real cricket seriously instead of the hit and giggle nonsense the appalling test results will remain the same.

Posted by vish2020 on (August 17, 2014, 22:20 GMT)

where are those who wanted sachin to retire even earlier than he did because they thought there was lots of talent waiting to take his place?? you guys happy now!! LOL if sachin was still here, he would make sure they don't give up the fight like this. sachin lost but he came back stronger. these guys just came back weaker and weaker... what a sorry bunch of players these are

Posted by Philip_Gnana on (August 17, 2014, 22:09 GMT)

How did the young and inexperienced Sri Lankan bowlers do better than the English? Could not India learn from their Asian counterparts and prepare for this tour?

Bhuvaneswara seems to have been the shining light and used his guile and bowled with his heart. It will be a tragedy if Gambhir is left out. He is going through a patch and needs a bit of confidence. India needs his experience to balance the team. How much blame should the manager take?

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 22:03 GMT)

Do not worry India. You will all forget this thrashing and stop screaming as soon as your superstars score heavily in India (where the ball does not rise above knee roll) against WI and start celebrating these "Indian condictions only" superstars. Then India will visit Australia and get thrashed big time. Then the Indians will start screaming. Indian team will again thrash a team in India.......This is the standard pattern for more than 30 years. So, all is well. As long as BCCI makes money and the superstars make millions, doBCCI and the superstars really care? India should have two teams: 1. For playing matches in India and 2. for playing matches outside subcontinent. For 1, everyone is qualified, but for 2, India will not be able to find even a single player!!

Posted by DnJsh on (August 17, 2014, 21:50 GMT)

@ glen1 - I fail to see how not being from the upper class translates into terrible performances outside the subcontinent. Perhaps the players are talented, in which case they should use their talents regardless of who the opposition is. After all, the language spoken in the host nation, and the nationality of the coach, have nothing to do with the quality of cricket the team plays. This is a ridiculous excuse.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 21:30 GMT)

You cannot live on a diet of endless short-form cricket and expect to transit smoothly to Test matches.

Posted by riprock on (August 17, 2014, 21:11 GMT)

haha. Does this series really tell us that a cricket crazy country with a population of over a billion, a cricket board with its stinky monetary resources, the countless academies and coaching centres can't produce a handful of batsmen capable of handling Jimmy Anderson and Broad on seaming surfaces in two consecutive attempts? Staggering. As many would suggest it might be unfair to solely blame the captain who's probably still the best man to lead the team..but if not the skipper and coach, whose role is it to prioritize the test format and imbibe the qualities and mindset required to grind it out against high quality bowling in testing conditions? The English fans regard the test format very highly and it's deeply embarrassing to display such mediocre standard of batsmanship or bowling in front of them. The domestic structure, it's quality of pitches and fast bowling faced need to be introspected if they want to avoid more hammering in Australia or elsewhere in future overseas tours.

Posted by Alexk400 on (August 17, 2014, 21:10 GMT)

Everyone coming with different excuses for their favourite player. One say dhoni did not protect varun arron and another say they did n't play rohit sharma. its hilarious. Varun arron is useless bowler for me. Problem is not effort its lack of height which makes him spend 150% effort to get decent ball. Investing on short fast bowlers is waste of time , energy and money. Period. Short midget batsman proven to be better bet. Actually all indian batsman are short except VVS. My opinion is that same indian batsman play like gladiator in india but they play overseas like they are so alone in their own little island and lose all hope. Its happening too often. I will change BCCI payment structure in that century in overseas twice money , century in winning cause 4 times money. Money talks. Money cross boundaries and bypass jealousy and ego issues. Every problem have many solution. I think with so many division in india , tough to make team united on concept except money.

Posted by Keithpandey on (August 17, 2014, 20:43 GMT)

quick points............... 1.selectors plz wake up before it's too late. 2.we need sehwag back as opener he deserve 10000 test runs as an opener/captain, he is a true match winner in tests. he can surely serve India for 2 to 3 years in longer format. 3.split captaincy is must now or never, at least for 2 to 3 years. 4. split workload of wk in tests n limited over cricket, in limited over cricket sanju samson is for future, dhoni's position is unquestioned n for tests in form naman ojha baits.. 5.duncun is spent fuel just good for coaching to Afghanistan or Zimbabwe,good bye sir. same for Joe Dawes three years with him n no improvement sorry sir vacation exotica over for you as well. 6.Dhoni as test captain "sayonara sayonara".... 7.future test bowlers Ishwar Pandey,Bhuvi,Praveen kumar,Umesh,Aaron,Rahul sukla. 8.test spinners Pragyan ojha,S.Nadim,Amit mishra,Herbhajan deservs a comeback. 9.no need to worry,do not play 5 tests focus on wc,play 7 odi.. 10. Our desi coaches are better..

Posted by Jama on (August 17, 2014, 20:42 GMT)

India can only play in Sub continent. Cricket is a business in India and if we want to see cricketers perform, Pay them only for matches that they win and you will see a big turnaround. Indian cricketers know they will get paid win or lose so why try so hard when easy money will follow them regardless of the result.

Posted by Cpt.Meanster on (August 17, 2014, 20:41 GMT)

@glen1: Interesting comment. Thank you for putting it out my friend. Yes, India should only focus on T20 and ODIs. Our players LOVE those formats of the game and take them more seriously than test cricket. There is nothing wrong with that. Every format of cricket has its own positives and negatives. Test cricket is simply not our youngsters' cup of tea. We embrace the IPL, CLT20 and 50 over cricket because we like attacking and aggressive formats of the sport. Test cricket is slow, sluggish and impervious to the modern world. The BCCI have only shot themselves in the foot by arranging a 5 test affair. England were always going to beat India comfortably in a 5 test series. More so in their own conditions favouring swing and seam. This was a total mismatch. I hope the BCCI don't schedule any more 5 test series. Our players need cricket that makes the best us of their skills which is now T20 and ODI cricket. Leave tests to England and Australia.

Posted by wapuser on (August 17, 2014, 20:39 GMT)

Too much harsh comments . it was all psyche that was playing on both sides mind.. Grassy pitches always an issue with subcontinent players

Posted by jango_moh on (August 17, 2014, 20:38 GMT)

i know dhoni played a few good innings here, but its time to relieve him of the test captaincy.... time for pujara/kohli and other batsmen to play county games.... they will benefit hugely from it!!!! even the mighty dravid failed in his early series in england... so i have hope for the batsmen for sure except gambhir, i would stick with dhawan or give somebody new a chance instead of gambhir, he looked average... dhoni does not support good bowlers like aaron, he leaves them out to dry... time for a new dynamic captain, whats the worst that could happen.....

Posted by Cpt.Meanster on (August 17, 2014, 20:34 GMT)

Indians should come to terms now that we will NEVER be a quality test team. Our team and conditions are NOT built for slow and sluggish test cricket. We are made for T20 and ODI - two forms of the game where brutal hitting and batsmen friendly conditions play a huge role. We have won championships to show for it. England on the other hand have zero achievements in that regard. On the test arena though, England are brilliant and have always been. What has Indian cricket done as a test team over its history ? It was not until Sourav Ganguly that we started becoming competitive as a nation overseas. We are prone to series defeats and this is just another leaf in the same embarrassment of a book. These defeats will continue until the BCCI takes stern steps to improve our first class structure including our pitches, our bowlers, and the technique of our batsmen who are used to flat roads. Unless we get real, our 'celebrity' cricketers will be humiliated every time.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 20:33 GMT)

Players are changed but same result in last 2-3 years and for that only one person is responsible and that is dhoni. he should not be leader of test match. now don;t say there is no option, once you give change to others then you will find and compare with him. no other changes required, dravid , sachin all big names failed in their initial career, in fact these new young players did much better than what those great did in their initial career. just changes the captain, drop dhoni from test matches. period,

Posted by LivingDead on (August 17, 2014, 20:22 GMT)

@landl47 everybody gets thrashed, Varun must learn to be tough and not lose his way even when going is tough. Otherwise no point being in the team if he needs to be protected. And if he cant bowl bouncers to tailenders then whats he in for? He will learn from it.

Posted by glen1 on (August 17, 2014, 20:17 GMT)

Cricket is no longer an upper middle class game in India. The Kumars, Yadavs, Pujaras, Jadegas, Shamis and countless others hail from the lower middle classes. They have extra ordinary skills and they use that to make a good living from cricket. The cricket that India likes is the ODI and the T20 and those are the skills they perfect. Yes, they will fight the long fights, but only if the fights are realistic. A five test series in a distant land, with alien coaches and a language that's not their main one doesn't help. There is no going back in demographics; optimize the returns by playing two test series. Don't ever destroy them by putting them up for the wrong fights; they are very good role models and players, regardless of what is written in the media!

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 20:07 GMT)

why why why Rohit rested ... you don't give chance to player having avg more than 60 in FC ..and keeps ur eyes on some of name ..that have been so poor even bad form gets shame on them self ... I am hurt feel shame on this team

Posted by landl47 on (August 17, 2014, 20:03 GMT)

One thing I found unforgiveable by Dhoni this morning was him feeding Aaron to the wolves. Aaron is a good young fast bowler, playing only his 3rd test. He has had many injury problems, which he has bravely overcome. He is passionate about the game. He deserved to be treated as the valuable commodity India hopes he will become. Yet Dhoni left him out there to be flogged round the field- 2-155 was his final return. It's going to take him a long time to forget that. Dhoni could have put on anyone- Binny, Kohli, Vijay- to get a thrashing, but he chose to hang Aaron out to dry.

That's not how a captain who cares about the future of his team thinks. Maybe Dhoni shouldn't be part of that future, at least as captain.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 20:02 GMT)

How can GOD help them? He has retired from cricket. Don't you remember last November?

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 20:02 GMT)

its not the records for which lankan fans are worried about sanga retirment but they are afraid of an indianish collaspe in eng today.the pair of two greats will not be seen any more .it makes me miss #dravidsachindadalaxman

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 19:58 GMT)

It's a tough road here on forward for Gautam Gambhir. Though he is not the only one who didn't perform, his place in the team was already at risk compared to the likes of Kohli, Pujara, or Vijay. These 3 will surely get many more chances but who knows if this the end of the road for Gambhir. I would say give him one more chance against the West Indies at home, and I don't say that being one of his biggest fans, I only say that because I feel it wouldn't be fair to drop Gambhir and put all the blame on him after everyone failed to perform. After giving Kohli 10 chances, I'd find it unfair to drop Gambhir after giving him 4. Though the rest is upto the selectors, and even if they drop Gambhir, he still has a chance to come back again but it will be 10x harder than before.

Posted by baskar_guha on (August 17, 2014, 19:47 GMT)

Terrible performance by the Indians on the field but it may be better than what has gone on off the field -- team management, selection committee and the BCCI itself. If you want to clean something, start at the top.

Posted by JustIPL on (August 17, 2014, 19:43 GMT)

Bhuvi looked good due to flater pitches and wider lines from english bowlers but had no clue in the later part of the series when pitches became lively and english bowling became clinical. So, please dont rush to conclusions for Bhuvi's career as a batsmen. As a bowler he looked deserted towards the end of series when indian batsemn kept getting out in about two sessions.

Posted by   on (August 17, 2014, 19:42 GMT)

difference between Eng and Ind was team management .. out of form matt prior causing problem has been dropped to bring a wining team has worked ..but what India does .. sticking with same team and same batting no. ..India should not play with a name ..they should have tried bench

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