New Zealand in England 2013

Ronchi picked in New Zealand one-day squad

ESPNcricinfo staff

April 5, 2013

Comments: 70 | Text size: A | A

Luke Ronchi drives through the off side, New Zealand XI v England XI, Twenty20, Whangarei, February 5, 2013
Luke Ronchi was born in New Zealand, grew up in Australia, and now plays for Wellington © AFP
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Luke Ronchi, the former Australia wicketkeeper, has earned his first call-up to a New Zealand squad after being picked for the one-day series against England and the Champions Trophy in June. Daniel Vettori also made a return after eight months out of international cricket with an ankle injury, selected in the one-day side.

There were few surprises in New Zealand's Test squad for the England tour, with opener Martin Guptill and fast bowler Mark Gillespie, both returning from injuries, added to the group that featured in the recent home series against England. With Gillespie's return, seamer Ian Butler misses out, the only omission from those home Tests.

Fast bowler Mitchell McClenaghan, who was ruled out after the first game of the one-day series against England after suffering a side strain, returns to the one-day side. He had been quite effective in the one game he played, taking 4 for 56 though he could not complete his quota of overs. Guptill had been injured in the same match, pulling a hamstring.

Gillespie last played for New Zealand a year ago, in the home Test series against South Africa. He then injured his ankle, before gaining a call-up for the T20 series in South Africa in December, only to pick up a side strain and miss out further.

Batsman Hamish Rutherford and keeper BJ Watling are the ones to miss out from the home England ODIs. New Zealand lost that series 2-1, before going on to draw the three-Test series 0-0.

Their tour of England includes two Tests, starting on May 16, followed by three ODIs. That is followed by Champions Trophy between June 6 and 23. Following the Champions Trophy, before they return home, New Zealand play two T20s against England.

Test squad Brendon McCullum (capt), Trent Boult, Doug Bracewell, Dean Brownlie, Peter Fulton, Martin Guptill, Mark Gillespie, Tom Latham, Bruce Martin, Hamish Rutherford, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner, BJ Watling (wk), Kane Williamson

ODI Champions Trophy squad Brendon McCullum (capt), Trent Boult, Grant Elliott, Andrew Ellis, James Franklin, Martin Guptill, Mitchell McClenaghan, Nathan McCullum, Kyle Mills, Colin Munro, Luke Ronchi, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, Daniel Vettori, Kane Williamson

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

Posted by The-Stoat on (April 9, 2013, 12:41 GMT)

I know having all-rounders is what New Zealand traditionally did well or ODIs, but having Franklin, Ellis AND Elliott? Is this just backup in case either a bowler or a batsman gets injured? I would also say Matt Henry is a little unlucky not to get a call up.

Posted by   on (April 8, 2013, 12:24 GMT)

Yes, why is Vettori not in the test squad? I thought he was giving away the limited-overs stuff.

And why is Guptill in the test squad? His record is not a good one.

Posted by SameOld on (April 7, 2013, 22:54 GMT)

@Min200 (and others who asked about Gillespie): Perhaps his age is the best reason to take him. It's a very young crew of seamers, and maybe the management have noticed them doing better with an older guy around to add a bit of experience to the group, even if not playing. Gillespie is also one of those bowlers that can make things happen, and that's valuable in the five day game.

I've enjoyed watching NZ bowl lately, but mostly because of Boult & Southee. A more incisive 3rd seamer might be able to prise open the cracks these two expose when they both get their lengths right (which happily, seems to happen more and more often lately). Maybe English conditions will agree with Wagner &/or Bracewell, and this is all academic. I'm not even sure who is incumbent between those two at the moment. The selectors sure have some thinking to do. It'll be interesting to see what answers they come up with. Bring on the next series!

Posted by ygkd on (April 7, 2013, 7:35 GMT)

@TraderGrim - Hughes went to South Australia. Khawaja and Forrest went to Queensland.

Posted by   on (April 7, 2013, 4:51 GMT)

Where's Vettori in the test squad? Surely he automatically comes back in? He's back in the ODI squad for the Champions Trophy so he can't still be injured.

Posted by Min2000 on (April 7, 2013, 2:00 GMT)

I'm happy with these squads.

The test team finally looks settled. With Fulton and Rutherford a certainty to open the selectors will have to think about giving Guptill a shot in the middle order. Obviously Brownlie hasn't done much wrong, but Guptill is a player that could play a lot of shots coming in at 5 against tiring bowlers.

Why take an aging workhorse like Gillespie as the backup seamer? With Southee, Boult, Bracewell and Wagner more likely to start it seems like this might be an opportunity to let a young quick like a McClenaghan carry the drinks at Lords and Headingly.

NZL XI for the Lord's test - Rutherford, Fulton, Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, McCullum (Capt), Watling (WK), Martin, Bracewell, Southee, Boult.

Posted by TraderGrim on (April 7, 2013, 1:40 GMT)

Phil Hughes used to play for New South Wales and now plays for Queensland - that"s even worse than playing for more than one country ...

Posted by Papamoa542 on (April 7, 2013, 0:31 GMT)

ODI team 1.guptill 2.ronchi 3.williamson 4.taylor 5.munro just. (should be bj) 6.mccullum 7.vettori 8.mccullum 9.southee 10.mills 11.mcclenaghan.

go with 5 bowlers bringing franlkin or elliot not the way to go.

Posted by   on (April 6, 2013, 23:20 GMT)

Good on him, clearly wasn't going to make it in the Aussie team so his made the move too try & get some international cricket before he retires

Posted by kiwicricketnut on (April 6, 2013, 21:11 GMT)

@ yetigoat neesham is much better than you suggest he just hasn't had the oppotunity to shine yet. In my opinion he could bowl first or second change, has alot of variations and could bat as high as 7 in the order, he hits the ball very hard, if you look at his stats for otago they are quite impressive, a great finisher at the end of an innings. While i didn't have him in my playing XI, he should definately be in the mix and in my opinion is a odi and t20 star in the making.

Posted by   on (April 6, 2013, 17:27 GMT)

i have heard alot abt matt henry? how good is he?

Posted by CricketingStargazer on (April 6, 2013, 16:52 GMT)

Just an odd footnote on Gareth Berg and players playing international for two teams, apparently he is also qualified to play for Norway, but picked Italy when tapped by them, presumably because they are 5 divisions higher in the ICC WCL. Australian Joe Scuderi also played for Italy.

Posted by yetigoat on (April 6, 2013, 15:23 GMT)

Neesham still? I didn't realize batting at 9 and being a 6th bowler was a vital part of the team.

Posted by AKS286 on (April 6, 2013, 15:11 GMT)

Missing names of Rob Nicol , M.Gllespie, Fulton & B.Martin in ODIs. Good selection by the Management.

Posted by zenboomerang on (April 6, 2013, 10:53 GMT)

@SladeR... In reply to your question, yes Wessels played for Oz - we all know that - then he played for Saffa when they completely disbanded apartheid... Do try & get your facts right...

Posted by CricketingStargazer on (April 6, 2013, 9:23 GMT)

Yest another example: Dermot Reeve, 3 Tests and 29 ODIs for England, but played for Hong Kong in the 1982 ICC trophy (i.e. World Cup qualifier).

If you count all these cases there are literally dozens in the last 40 years since international limited overs cricket started.

Posted by CricketingStargazer on (April 6, 2013, 8:56 GMT)

Just to clarify on Graeme Hick. Both versions are correct. Despite being in the 1983 World Cup squad. Graeme Hick never played never played an official ODI for Zimbabwe and certainly not a Test. However, Zimbabwe (and previously Rhodesia) played as an entity in the Currie Cup and other South African domestic comeptitions, this Hick played for Zimbabwe *in South African domestic cricket* but never in an official international. Mike Proctor played for Rhodesia in Currie Cup & South Africa in Tests.

My original intention was to limit things to Test because so many more countries play limited overs cricket at some level that the duel qualification is now rather easy. The Irish players can only play Tests by going over to England. A Dutch player has played for Australia, etc. Years back, Neil Radford played a couple of Tests for England and could conceivably before represented Zambia at some level beforehand. Middlesex's South African Gareth Berg reresents Italy, etc. GO Jones, Papua etc

Posted by CricketingStargazer on (April 6, 2013, 8:42 GMT)

@Chris_P Yes, he was in the Zimbabwe World Cup squad in 1983, but did not play.

Posted by   on (April 6, 2013, 8:13 GMT)

Martin hasn't officially retired, just this crop of bowlers are now better than him.

Posted by SladeR on (April 6, 2013, 8:08 GMT)

@zenboomerang. Talking about getting your facts right, take some of your own advice. Think you will find, as mentioned by someone else, that Wessels represented Australia and South Africa

Posted by Chris_P on (April 6, 2013, 6:17 GMT)

@jones10001 Hicks wasn't mentioned because he never represented Zimbabwe in any international. He may have been in the one day World Cup squad of 1983, but he certainly didn't play any matches, ergo he has not represented any more than England. Same for Grieg.

Posted by Fast_Track_Bully on (April 6, 2013, 5:56 GMT)

Earlier It was England, then SA, few times Australia and now NZ. So, it is hard to find good players in those countries??

Posted by zenboomerang on (April 6, 2013, 4:12 GMT)

Wish people would try & get the facts rights - Wessels & Greig couldn't play for SA because SA was banned from international cricket 1970-1993 by the ICC... They both loved cricket & took their skills to another country to play - who wouldn't in similar circumstances?...

Posted by cricketcritic on (April 6, 2013, 4:03 GMT)

How Ronchi didn't make the test squad as well is beyond me.

Tom Latham is in that squad as a back up batsman and to provide cover with the gloves. Latham's first class record is patchy so far, though he shows potential and played well in the T20 warm up games against England.

Ronchi on the other hand had an outstanding first-class season with the bat, one of the top two or three runmakers yet he had an ordinary season in T20 and List A cricket with the bat.

I'd say go figure but with Hesson at the helm it's not surprising. The team performed well against England in the tests, but we'll see if that was just a flash in the pan or not, one swallow doesn't make a summer.

Posted by   on (April 6, 2013, 1:51 GMT)

Ronchi - best keeper in the country

Posted by jjones10001 on (April 6, 2013, 1:29 GMT)

No one has mentioned England's great batting hope of the late 1980's to 1990's Graeme Hick who at the start of his playing career played a couple of matches for Zimbabwe. Also Surrey's Monte Lynch played for the Rebel West Indies team when they toured South Africa in 1984. Monte Lynch however decided to play for England in 1988 when he had the chance to play against the first choice West Indies team in the first two ODI matches.

Posted by Baxter_P on (April 6, 2013, 0:41 GMT)

The test squad is as expected; I wouldn't have Gillespie (because I don't think the 5th choice seamer should be a guy who is 33 and often injured; this bowler is not likely to play a test, so why not select an up-and-comer to have a taste of touring and the team culture?) The ODI squad, I'm not as keen on. BJ should be in ahead of Ronchi. Loyalty has to be a factor in selection, and BJ deserves to be retained. The selectors plainly really, really want Ronchi in the squad, so BJ has to be bumped out to accommodate him. I don't think it's merited. Also, I honestly don't know why Ellis is picked so often. Anderson and especially Neesham have youth and form in their favour, plus they went to SA so have recent touring experience that should be built upon. Why dispense with them both for a guy who is 31 and has a mediocre overall record and doesn't demand selection on recent form?

Posted by 2.14istherunrate on (April 5, 2013, 23:58 GMT)

Has Chris Martin finished? Otherwise no surprises in the Test squad. I hope England pay the Kiwis respect in these games. ODI side will challenge too,especially in Champion's trophy.

Posted by pmahone on (April 5, 2013, 23:48 GMT)

On the surface, I really like the look of these sides. Don't know it it has been done deliberately but I think the growing, and stark, demarcation between test and other formats is a good thing.

It would be nice to think New Zealand might completely change its approach of recent years and nominate test cricket as its over-riding priority and use one day cricket as a testing ground for possibles, boosted by a smattering of proven experience. The sooner they forget all about 20/20, as a competitive format, the better.

I think 20/20 is a good showcase for the non-cricket market and should be a much rarer but still well-promoted format along the lines of the old Harlem Globetrotters - a bit of tasty super for some established stars in a high-octane, fun environment. That is particularly true for New Zealand which doesn't have the depth to risk its developing talent in that format.

Posted by RednWhiteArmy on (April 5, 2013, 22:36 GMT)

Oh no, hopefully the aussies dont start whingeing again about oversea's players or whatever their issue is. Or maybe they only highlight it when England does it. Have a look at O'keefe Khwaja & henriques.

Posted by jjones10001 on (April 5, 2013, 21:18 GMT)

Also there is Graeme Hick who played a few matches for Zimbabwe in the mid 1980's before turning out for England, and there is also Surrey's Monte Lynch who toured South Africa in 1983/84 with the Rebel West Indies team and he later played official international cricket for England V the West Indies in 1 or 2 ODI matches in 1988.

Posted by degiant on (April 5, 2013, 18:35 GMT)

Cummings played for WI in the 90's and later Canada. Faoud Bacchus played for WI and later USA but the other case is a guy who passed recently who played tests in the 50's for WI and NZ his name was Sammy Guillen and as a matter of fact his team won both his first test[ WI beat Aus] and last test[NZ beat WI]

Posted by crikkfan on (April 5, 2013, 17:13 GMT)

Kepler Wessels - SA and Aus

Posted by jjones10001 on (April 5, 2013, 16:08 GMT)

Recent examples of players to have played for 2 or more international teams are Ed Joyce, Eoin Morgan, Dirk Nannes and Clayton Lambert but these have have been in the one-day format with the exception of Morgan. In test cricket, the only instances I know of are all before the second world war, with guys like the Nawab of Pataudi who first played test cricket for England V Australia in 1933 and then a couple of years later played tests for India. There has even been a former Aussie captain in Billy Murdoch around WG Grace's time who played one or two tests for England V South Africa!

Posted by gramedgar on (April 5, 2013, 16:04 GMT)

@CricketingStargazer don't forget Mitchell Johnson, who played several tests for Australia before playing a big part in England's Ashes wins. :)

Posted by Rhys.C on (April 5, 2013, 12:51 GMT)

Really isn't a great looking ODI squad. You have to feel for BJ being dropped after being quite consistent over the last year. Good luck to Luke Ronchi and NZ.

Posted by blink182alex on (April 5, 2013, 12:49 GMT)

Disappointed Watling was dropped from the odi side. I know he missed out against England in that form but i believe he is better suited to the middle order. But with McCullum moving to 6 he had to be shifted up. Andrew Ellis is very lucky to have made the squad, doesn't seem to do much with bat or ball really but is one of those typical kiwi all rounders. Papps can count himself unlucky.

Posted by CricketingStargazer on (April 5, 2013, 12:37 GMT)

@Moazam Rashid: No, Tony Greig never played, even unofficially for South Africa. Maybe you are thinking of Kepler Wessels, who played 24 Tests for Australia and then 16 for South Africa. Or John Traicos, born in Egypt, who played 3 Tests for South Africa and then 4 for Zimbabwe. I can't think of another recent case.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 11:58 GMT)

@furqan durrani...tony greig the legend is one of the few players who have player for two different countries..he played for england and south africa..

Posted by I-Like-Cricket on (April 5, 2013, 11:48 GMT)

Congratulations NZ you nearly had a great team and you decide to drop BJ Watling. He could've stayed in the side just as a batsman, your loss I guess.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 11:13 GMT)

Good for Ronchi & NZ, not so much for BJ Watling.

Posted by rixgm on (April 5, 2013, 10:14 GMT)

So BJ was one of the most consistent in the one day team, but could not get a look in, in the test team, then he becomes one of the most consistent in the test team, and cant get in the ODI team. Hmmm. Of all the positives to come out of BMac's captaincy the treatment of BJ is not one of them.

Posted by shinewindies on (April 5, 2013, 10:07 GMT)

I think for the 1st time in NZ cricket history their Test squad looks much stronger than their ODI squad. Good luck Kiwis and thanks for keeping test cricket alive.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 9:51 GMT)

How does Ellis keep getting picked? He's not even that good at fielding let alone batting and bowling.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 9:38 GMT)

weelll this popps out a question in my mind that how many players have played for two countriesss in internationalss......and is there sumone who has played for more than 2 countrieesss....!!!!

Posted by shane-oh on (April 5, 2013, 9:28 GMT)

I can't say it makes sense to me dropping Watling from the ODI squad in favour of Ronchi. Ronchi has good domestic numbers - but not great domestic numbers. Normally I'd agree with it, but Watling has probably been our 2nd most consistent scorer after Taylor for the last 12 months. What message does it send to drop him? I think there has been a little indecent haste to fast-track Ronchi into the international set-up and I'm not convinced it's necessary or justified.

Posted by Dannynz on (April 5, 2013, 8:19 GMT)

Great to see Ronchi selected. Really struggle to see how Papps did not make the ODI team, wonder what he needs to do as scoring twice as many runs as everyone else doesn't seem to be enough. Really do not like Ellis or Munro.

Posted by Thefakebook on (April 5, 2013, 7:49 GMT)

Goon on you Luke what awesome keeper/striker of the ball was he for WA! He did well in his brief appearance for the national side as well.Now its a good move by him to return to his Kiwi roots.Hope he becomes the Wk batsmen for all formats since the legendary Brendon McCullum is not keeping in tests and will soon not keep in ODIs and T20 strange thing however is they are both of the same age,so who will retire first can't be confirmed.I thought Vettori retired from limited overs format(his return stint in T20WC work at all) and is a test player only.

Posted by Big-Dog on (April 5, 2013, 7:33 GMT)

Ronchi was struggling to get a game with WA when he left so goodluck to NZ

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 6:57 GMT)

anderson and neesham both semed to have learnt from sa trip so one of them could have replaced ellis and wouldnt matt henry with his record be selected by aus in this point of his career, definetly should be next in line after an injury id boult fails in odis, also cant wait for ish sodhi to have an attacking pace bowler to complement him, like he did with southee for a brief time this season

Posted by crickethistory on (April 5, 2013, 6:49 GMT)

I've always thought that Luke Ronchi is an outstanding keeper/batsman. When Adam Gilchrist retired Ronchi should have been a regular in the Australian team. I hope he performs well for NZ and finally gets a prolonged run in international cricket.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 6:40 GMT)

hwo about this for a line up for 1st test? Rutherford, Fulton, Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, McCulum, Watling (Wk), Vettori, Boult, Southee, Bracewell

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 6:27 GMT)

Finally the selectors have got it right by picking Ronchi, but he should be playing all 3 forms. If you look at his stats domestically he actually killed it in the 4 day game & was patchy in the short formats. He could play test cricket as a batsman in the NZ team if they want to give Watling a run as keeper, but Ronchi is the better keeper & as he is 31 has probably 4 years in him at international level, I hope the NZ selectors dont waste those years.

Posted by ankurc_27 on (April 5, 2013, 6:11 GMT)

hwo about this for a line up for 1st test? Rutherford, Fulton, Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, McCulum, Watling (Wk), Martin, Boult, Southee, Bracewell

Posted by SameOld on (April 5, 2013, 6:03 GMT)

Interesting times for NZ selectors. Can't remember the last time they had this much quality & form to pick from. Ronchi must walk into the ODI side, & really should get a go in the Tests too (he wont, but he *should*). BJ as a middle-order bat works for me, in place of Brownlie. Not that Brownlie has been poor, but look at Ronchi's fc conversion rate (14 fifties, 11 hundreds. avg. 37ish @82.92): Get him in the side!

Bowling stocks are looking good. I'd love to see Gillespie in English conditions, but I think he's probably behind Wagner & Bracewell at the moment. Southee & Boult pick themselves on recent form: both were only a little luck and some better catching away from devastating the Poms. Sadly, I don't think Vettori will play another Test, so Bruce is safe for now.

And Guppy. What to do with Guppy? He opens the short forms, sure. But Tests? I'm not sure where he fits in the order now. NZ really miss his fielding, though. I suppose he joins Gillespie in waiting for an injury

Posted by gothetaniwha on (April 5, 2013, 5:28 GMT)

Good to see Gillespie back , he 's a 110% player ,gives his all ,hope Ronchi gets his chance , and takes it

Posted by Glenn10 on (April 5, 2013, 5:23 GMT)

I am surprised to see Guptil in the test lineup and he's a bit lucky to make the ODI team considering who was left out? That said, why also not pick Matt Henry instead of the ageing Gillespe? Unless 2 bowlers get injured, he's not going to get a go anyway, so giving Henry a taste around the test squad would have been a great experience. On current form Neesham would have been a better pick than Ellis as one of the allrounders. Other than that they are not bad sides

Posted by vj_gooner on (April 5, 2013, 5:14 GMT)

Good luck Lukey boy! You should have played more matches for Oz though!

Posted by hogan11 on (April 5, 2013, 5:08 GMT)

Guptill at 5. Brownlie hasn't looked convincing.

Posted by Buckers410 on (April 5, 2013, 4:10 GMT)

On ya Luke Ronchi, good luck with being a kiwi keeper, you really should have made the decision earlier, you might have been a kiwi keeper/batsman legend by now! Hope you play tests some time soon but BJ is a good player, so.....

Posted by Ali_86xz on (April 5, 2013, 4:07 GMT)

Vettori should also be in the Test squad. He has 360 Test wickets. Adding to that, Bruce Martin, the main spinner was overtaken by the part-timer Kane Willamson's performance. Vettori should replace Bruce.

Posted by zenboomerang on (April 5, 2013, 3:48 GMT)

Must be an unusual place for the Black Caps to be in - you have a good series against the Poms with the batting looking strong & some good bowling - then you get back Guptill, Bracewell, Gillespie - who misses out from playing?... With only 2 Test matches being played you will only really get 1 chance to get it right or the series will be gone...

Posted by zenboomerang on (April 5, 2013, 3:47 GMT)

Luke was always a very good keeper & at times I preferred him to Haddin for ODI's - anyway, good luck & hopefully has a v.g. CT series & the team as well...

Posted by jonesy2 on (April 5, 2013, 3:36 GMT)

why isnt he in the test team?! he would single handedly destroy england, ive seem him destroy far better sides than england playing for the mighty western warriors

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 3:31 GMT)

excellent that ronchi is selected for nz. he was treated harshly by the aussies. i still think he is quite superior to watling in glovesmanship and batting and should have been in the test squad too but based on watling batting in the past he is just for an extended run

Posted by TATTUs on (April 5, 2013, 3:26 GMT)

This is a good squad. Mark Gillespie will add to the depth. I think they should not pick Guptill unless both the openers fail in the first 2 innings. Or may be they can try Guptill in the middle order.

Posted by   on (April 5, 2013, 3:24 GMT)

Anyone notice something about the ODI squad? Apart from Guptill, no quality ODI openers aside from McCullum (who works fantastically well at 5/6) and Ronchi (lack of experience). Ideally Ellis and Munro would be out to make way for Rutherford and Fulton to open with guppy. I'm shocked to see Ellis back in the mix. He's a mediocre-average bowler and tail-end quality batsman at best. International cricket doesn't seem the right place for him, not to mention that Franklin, Elliot and N McCullum are superior one-day allrounders. Do not approve. Ideal side with this squad would be: 1. Guptill 2. Ronchi (not ideal, but best shot we've got) 3. Kane (VC) 4. Rosco 5. Elliot 6. BMac (W,C) 7. Franklin 8. NMac 9. Mills 10. Southee 11. McClenaghan

When BCs face Aus it would be funny to see Bracewell chucked into the side for one game; just his presence would petrify them!

Posted by kiwicricketnut on (April 5, 2013, 3:06 GMT)

I like the look of the test side but the odi team looks a bit sick. Why on earth we keep settling for all these bits and peices players that arn't that good at either discipline, franklin, elliot, munro, n.mccullum and ellis all offer nothing at all with the ball and only munro probably deserves a shot with the bat. Neesham and anderson offer more as allrounders and with vettori back there is no need for mccullums ineffective off spin. Watling should feel hard done by too, now they don't have an opener to bat with guptil. My odi XI 1.guptil 2.watling 3.williamson 4.taylor 5.munro 6.mccullum 7.anderson 8.vettori 9.southee 10.mills 11.mcclenaghan 12th. Neesham

Posted by shooting on (April 5, 2013, 2:41 GMT)

What do you do with Guptill?

Posted by Meety on (April 5, 2013, 2:39 GMT)

Ronchi should do well, although I thought BMac kept in ODIs? == == == I'm tipping that if Gillespie is FIT, he will be a massive handful for the Poms, even more so if it is typical May weather in England!

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