England v New Zealand, 3rd NatWest ODI, Trent Bridge June 4, 2013

Broad and Finn show improvement

ESPNcricinfo staff
23

England have been handed a much-needed boost after Stuart Broad and Steven Finn both took a full part in training at Trent Bridge on Tuesday ahead of the final one-day international against New Zealand.

Broad picked up a knee injury in the second Test against New Zealand and Finn had been suffering from shin soreness. The pair had been ruled out of the first two matches of the series and doubts were growing about their chances of making the Champions Trophy, but those worries now appear to be reducing although it remains uncertain whether both will be risked on Wednesday.

Ian Bell said it was a welcome sight to see them in the nets. "They've been two massive performers in one-day cricket for a while for us so to have them back fit - or certainly training today - is a big boost for everyone. It's good to have a full squad competing for places which is what you need going into a big tournament."

In their absence England's reserve bowlers have struggled, especially Jade Dernbach and Chris Woakes, to reinforce how vital Broad and Finn are to England's Champions Trophy hopes.

After the heavy defeat at the Ageas Bowl on Sunday, Cook had sounded worried about his strike bowlers. "They are both a concern but five or six days is still quite a long way away. They've missed two games and been out for a while, so we'll see."

Boyd Rankin, the Warwickshire and former Ireland quick, was drafted into the squad as cover and Bell was on the receiving end of him trying to make a claim for selection on Wednesday.

"Facing him in the nets is absolutely horrible," Bell said. "I didn't enjoy it too much today. It's great to see him charging in in an England shirt."

The fitness of two of their leading strike bowlers has not been the only issue for England over the last few days. The top order, with the exception of Jonathan Trott at the Ageas Bowl, have continued their recent trend of wasting starts.

"A lot of us have got starts and not gone on. That's frustrating," Bell said. "Generally, in the last couple of years, someone in the top four has gone on. Trotty did that for us the other day - which was great - but if another couple of us could do that it would get us into a good position to get good runs.

"We've a great record at home. It's the first series since 2009 we've lost, so it's a strange thing to happen. But tomorrow is a big day. If we can get it right it gives us good momentum going into that series."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Beige_and_blue on June 5, 2013, 9:22 GMT

    Andy Parry: yes, and stats wise Franklin was never good enough as a bowler or batsman: Bat av. 25, Bowl av 40. in odi. at 32 he's not past it; he just never got there in the first place. It would be nice to see a new Oram or Cairns, but failing that, perhaps Neesham or Cory Anderson would be a better bet?

  • on June 5, 2013, 7:54 GMT

    @ Beige_and_blue: Indeed which I why I have been a long-time fan of the NZ A tours. If we could have NZ cricket funded like we do with our rugby than we could send the A's on more tours and blood promising talent instead of sticking them into the main side and letting them sink or swim.

    Please tell me that we all agree that Franklin is past his use-by date. That position in the team should be filled by someone with the caliber of an Oram or Cairns.

    Yes Ronchi has a future and might well have the potential to be our Adam Gilchrist but I would have brought him into the team further down and have someone else open with Guppy.

  • Beige_and_blue on June 5, 2013, 7:06 GMT

    Andy Parry: latham is not in the odi squad otherwise I would be all for his inclusion. NZ forever: short memory problems? Fulton's odi stats are not too bad and his two innings in Auckland are still fresh in my memory; besides, he had by far the best stats in NZ's last domestic season. Should we select someone who isn't as good? Just because we keep selecting under-performers doesn't mean we are overlooking unrelised cricketing wealth!

  • on June 5, 2013, 5:32 GMT

    @ Beige_and_blue: While I like your idea of giving other players game time, I am pretty sure Dan Vettori is yet again unavailable for tonight's game. Concerns over Ronchi after all the hype, it doesn't look like he is handling the international scene very well at all. Maybe time to try Latham.

  • on June 5, 2013, 4:25 GMT

    im thinking he was meaning adam hollioake? rather then ben (i hope)

  • nzforever on June 4, 2013, 22:28 GMT

    Gagg some fair points but re: Sodhi I think back to an even younger & less experienced Vettori given a chance and being like a breathe of fresh air in the nz team. Milne/B.Small plus Cachopa/Raval certainly should be looked at in the longer format of the game. Henry/Kitchen/Neesham/Latham should be brought in after the CT to gain experience for the 2015 w/c. Franklin/Mills/Elliott/C.Martin should retire gracefully and be thanked for their services however Fulton/Ellis/Arnel/B.Martin shouldn't be allowed near any odi t20 or test ever again.

  • Beige_and_blue on June 4, 2013, 19:02 GMT

    Hey, England fans; I'm not saying this because I don't want to see NZ facing a full strength Eng, but with the series lost it would seem a bad plan to risk two known performers with questionable fitness, days before a major tournament begins, playing for little more than pride. Instead it would seem an ideal opportunity to treat this game in much the same way as the 14-15 man per side practice games currently underway around the UK: try out some new combinations and blood some new players. For balance, I also hope NZ use this approach; for the last game of the series I would like to see Butler, Munro, and Vettori come in for Bracewell, Franklin, and Eliott; not for any reason other than match practice before CT starts. (Maybe Southee for Mills too; assuming all are fit.)

  • GeoffreysMother on June 4, 2013, 18:39 GMT

    There is a very interesting by play here. Whilst Ashley Giles would obviously want to play Broad and Finn in the Champions Trophy, I am sure Andy Flower would prefer to err on the side of caution and ensure they are good enough for the first three Ashes test (which should be enough ( especially as Clarke's back isn't going to last more than one). The advantage of Rankin is that of course he has already played international cricket and turned in some pretty creditable performances against the big boys. That is surely better than bringing in an untried or inexperienced bowler like Roland Jones. I think they will save Tremlett for the Ashes - and he will probably play later on in the series - just to see if Phil Hughes can play short pitched bowling.

  • 5wombats on June 4, 2013, 17:57 GMT

    @gsingh7 (June 4, 2013, 14:54 GMT) You really are a well informed genius aren't you? You say Broad was "listless" in the 2011 and 2013 ODI series in India. Well - that's an impressive achievement considering that Stuart Broad wasn't even on those tours. And as for your comment about Ben Hollioake - that is downright tactless considering that he has been dead for the past 11 years. I suggest you think again before suggesting that he should come out of retirement. Not funny, not funny in the least.

  • trav29 on June 4, 2013, 17:04 GMT

    @gsingh stuart broad didn't play in either of those series. good to see your comments as factually accurate as usual tho ...

  • Beige_and_blue on June 5, 2013, 9:22 GMT

    Andy Parry: yes, and stats wise Franklin was never good enough as a bowler or batsman: Bat av. 25, Bowl av 40. in odi. at 32 he's not past it; he just never got there in the first place. It would be nice to see a new Oram or Cairns, but failing that, perhaps Neesham or Cory Anderson would be a better bet?

  • on June 5, 2013, 7:54 GMT

    @ Beige_and_blue: Indeed which I why I have been a long-time fan of the NZ A tours. If we could have NZ cricket funded like we do with our rugby than we could send the A's on more tours and blood promising talent instead of sticking them into the main side and letting them sink or swim.

    Please tell me that we all agree that Franklin is past his use-by date. That position in the team should be filled by someone with the caliber of an Oram or Cairns.

    Yes Ronchi has a future and might well have the potential to be our Adam Gilchrist but I would have brought him into the team further down and have someone else open with Guppy.

  • Beige_and_blue on June 5, 2013, 7:06 GMT

    Andy Parry: latham is not in the odi squad otherwise I would be all for his inclusion. NZ forever: short memory problems? Fulton's odi stats are not too bad and his two innings in Auckland are still fresh in my memory; besides, he had by far the best stats in NZ's last domestic season. Should we select someone who isn't as good? Just because we keep selecting under-performers doesn't mean we are overlooking unrelised cricketing wealth!

  • on June 5, 2013, 5:32 GMT

    @ Beige_and_blue: While I like your idea of giving other players game time, I am pretty sure Dan Vettori is yet again unavailable for tonight's game. Concerns over Ronchi after all the hype, it doesn't look like he is handling the international scene very well at all. Maybe time to try Latham.

  • on June 5, 2013, 4:25 GMT

    im thinking he was meaning adam hollioake? rather then ben (i hope)

  • nzforever on June 4, 2013, 22:28 GMT

    Gagg some fair points but re: Sodhi I think back to an even younger & less experienced Vettori given a chance and being like a breathe of fresh air in the nz team. Milne/B.Small plus Cachopa/Raval certainly should be looked at in the longer format of the game. Henry/Kitchen/Neesham/Latham should be brought in after the CT to gain experience for the 2015 w/c. Franklin/Mills/Elliott/C.Martin should retire gracefully and be thanked for their services however Fulton/Ellis/Arnel/B.Martin shouldn't be allowed near any odi t20 or test ever again.

  • Beige_and_blue on June 4, 2013, 19:02 GMT

    Hey, England fans; I'm not saying this because I don't want to see NZ facing a full strength Eng, but with the series lost it would seem a bad plan to risk two known performers with questionable fitness, days before a major tournament begins, playing for little more than pride. Instead it would seem an ideal opportunity to treat this game in much the same way as the 14-15 man per side practice games currently underway around the UK: try out some new combinations and blood some new players. For balance, I also hope NZ use this approach; for the last game of the series I would like to see Butler, Munro, and Vettori come in for Bracewell, Franklin, and Eliott; not for any reason other than match practice before CT starts. (Maybe Southee for Mills too; assuming all are fit.)

  • GeoffreysMother on June 4, 2013, 18:39 GMT

    There is a very interesting by play here. Whilst Ashley Giles would obviously want to play Broad and Finn in the Champions Trophy, I am sure Andy Flower would prefer to err on the side of caution and ensure they are good enough for the first three Ashes test (which should be enough ( especially as Clarke's back isn't going to last more than one). The advantage of Rankin is that of course he has already played international cricket and turned in some pretty creditable performances against the big boys. That is surely better than bringing in an untried or inexperienced bowler like Roland Jones. I think they will save Tremlett for the Ashes - and he will probably play later on in the series - just to see if Phil Hughes can play short pitched bowling.

  • 5wombats on June 4, 2013, 17:57 GMT

    @gsingh7 (June 4, 2013, 14:54 GMT) You really are a well informed genius aren't you? You say Broad was "listless" in the 2011 and 2013 ODI series in India. Well - that's an impressive achievement considering that Stuart Broad wasn't even on those tours. And as for your comment about Ben Hollioake - that is downright tactless considering that he has been dead for the past 11 years. I suggest you think again before suggesting that he should come out of retirement. Not funny, not funny in the least.

  • trav29 on June 4, 2013, 17:04 GMT

    @gsingh stuart broad didn't play in either of those series. good to see your comments as factually accurate as usual tho ...

  • The_bowlers_Holding on June 4, 2013, 14:34 GMT

    Mitty2 on (June 4, 2013, 13:56 GMT) You make some good points regarding Woakes, he will always be a supporting bowler and his record with the bat(FC) is excellent. Dernbach is never going to make the grade and seems to get picked regardless, it is a little bemusing. I think the CT will spring a few surprises the warm up games have had the Asian teams looking likely but come the competitive games all COULD change, or stay the same I guess.

  • StevieS on June 4, 2013, 14:28 GMT

    nzforever Shodi in far from ready, he has only played one list A game, ask again in 2-3 years. Anderson isn't good enough. I believe Milne would be better suited to first class/tests at this stage in his career. Latham should be given a proper run as should Neesham. Craig Cachopa is the most promising of the brothers but again he seems more suited to first class/test cricket.

  • Mitty2 on June 4, 2013, 13:56 GMT

    @zenek, well at the same pace out of the hand... There's still definitely a lot of 'zip' from Anderson isn't there! I think you raise a very good point, but maybe it's just a first class/one day thing, where woakes is far superior as a red ball bowler. In the county, from memory, woakes averages 25 as a bowler, which is very good, however, you get the fist of him being a type of bowler who compliments rather than dominates an attack. And so for woakes to be in a combination of dernbach is going to produce an even more exasperated result. If woakes was in an attack of Anderson, Finn and broad as the fourth seamer, you'd think he'd know his position - whether to be attacking or economical to compliment other bowlers - and would bowl much better. IMO, woakes is a huge talent and england supporters should lay off him a bit... After Anderson is gone/when his ability declines the new seamers are going to need all the support they can get in the transition.

  • CricketingStargazer on June 4, 2013, 13:45 GMT

    @Speng If one is really cynical one could say that England and Australia have similar issues at present. Both rely too much on one or two batsmen and have delicate pace attacks with unproven resources behind them. However, if you look around Test cricket, there are no sides playing outstanding cricket apart from South Africa. To be honest, the gap between #2 on the ICC rankings and #8 may look huge in the points table, but it has probably never been narrower on current form and results.

    Who is favourite for the Champions Trophy? It's hard to pick one. Quite literally any side could win. You can win just 3 matches out of 5 - all the teams are capable of that - and still win the tournament.

  • TallHawk on June 4, 2013, 13:10 GMT

    I read somewhere that Dernbach is the most expensive bowler in the history of one-day cricket, ever, of all time, in the world, the universe! Jeeez, just drop the guy...

  • cric_J on June 4, 2013, 13:04 GMT

    I have had my fingers crossed over this injury business during the last 2 days . So it is utterly relieving to hear that Broady and Finny are improving. And that is the least I can say.

    Although the injuries are not too serious ,I am pretty sure that unless both of them are totally fit they won't be risked for the Champ's Trophy with the Ashes around. Not both of them atleast.And not in the first match atleast.

    I heard alot of people suggesting that Broad should be replaced by Woakes in ASAP after NZ's first innings at Lord's and on numerous other occasions. And I was never in favour of those suggestions. Now, I think Woakes has justified my opinion to a large extent with his horrifying couple of performances, although ODI bowling and test bowling have their differences.

    There has been alot of criticism of Dernbach and rightly so.But woakes did very little to escape his bit of criticism .Dernbach surely couldn't conceed 359 runs alone. He had all of Woakes' help to do so.

  • on June 4, 2013, 13:01 GMT

    I don't think Pace is the problem for Woakes. in the 2 ODIs so far his pace from the hand isn't a problem. hes frequently been in the low-to-mid 80s, which is faster than Jimmy A on occasion. However, there just didn't seem to be any 'zip' off the pitch in terms of pace or movement.

    I don't know how best to describe it, bu i think this way; it used to be said that Flintoff bowled a 'heavy' ball. It seems Woakes bowls a 'light' ball.

  • Speng on June 4, 2013, 12:53 GMT

    Question is do you risk them for the Champions Trophy, which to be honest England have little chance of winning, or do you save them for the double Ashes? England's much vaunted pace attack is thin and inconsistent. It seems to me that some new talent needs to be blooded and England should give Tredwell some match practice given they might want to go two spinners against Australia later in the year.

  • CricketingStargazer on June 4, 2013, 12:21 GMT

    Only a few days ago there were whispers that Finn might be out for most of the summer and that Broad would, most likely, miss the Champions Trophy. There are also suggestions that Chris Tremlett, who has played very little so far this season, is on official standby, suggesting that Boyd Rankin is not likely to make his England debut any time soon (if ever). It seems that there is a fair dose of smoke and mirrors around.

    I would be tempted to go the way of a number of people who I have seen and bring in Tredwell for Dernbach.

  • nzforever on June 4, 2013, 12:13 GMT

    Will this be the last tournement/throw of the dice for players like Franklin, Mills, Elliott, Butler, Ellis or can we finally start playing fresh young talent like Anderson, Neesham, Milne, Henry, Sodhi, Cachopa bros, Latham etc?

  • TripleCenturian on June 4, 2013, 11:58 GMT

    Dernbach needs more than direction. Some talent and ability would be helpful for starters. How he gets close to the international stage is beyond me when his batting is also woeful. At least Woakes has another dimension to his game.

    Agree we should play Tredwell just to give some control

  • Harlequin. on June 4, 2013, 11:40 GMT

    Rest Finn (his injury sounds stress-induced), but play Broad & Tremlett so that we can compare them against Bresnan and work out who should be playing Ashes cricket.

  • 2.14istherunrate on June 4, 2013, 11:33 GMT

    I think if one of them can play-the fitter of the two- and Tredwell replaces one then England can dispense with the haemorrhage brothers for Nottingham. Woakes needs some fire and pace,Dernbach some direction.

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  • 2.14istherunrate on June 4, 2013, 11:33 GMT

    I think if one of them can play-the fitter of the two- and Tredwell replaces one then England can dispense with the haemorrhage brothers for Nottingham. Woakes needs some fire and pace,Dernbach some direction.

  • Harlequin. on June 4, 2013, 11:40 GMT

    Rest Finn (his injury sounds stress-induced), but play Broad & Tremlett so that we can compare them against Bresnan and work out who should be playing Ashes cricket.

  • TripleCenturian on June 4, 2013, 11:58 GMT

    Dernbach needs more than direction. Some talent and ability would be helpful for starters. How he gets close to the international stage is beyond me when his batting is also woeful. At least Woakes has another dimension to his game.

    Agree we should play Tredwell just to give some control

  • nzforever on June 4, 2013, 12:13 GMT

    Will this be the last tournement/throw of the dice for players like Franklin, Mills, Elliott, Butler, Ellis or can we finally start playing fresh young talent like Anderson, Neesham, Milne, Henry, Sodhi, Cachopa bros, Latham etc?

  • CricketingStargazer on June 4, 2013, 12:21 GMT

    Only a few days ago there were whispers that Finn might be out for most of the summer and that Broad would, most likely, miss the Champions Trophy. There are also suggestions that Chris Tremlett, who has played very little so far this season, is on official standby, suggesting that Boyd Rankin is not likely to make his England debut any time soon (if ever). It seems that there is a fair dose of smoke and mirrors around.

    I would be tempted to go the way of a number of people who I have seen and bring in Tredwell for Dernbach.

  • Speng on June 4, 2013, 12:53 GMT

    Question is do you risk them for the Champions Trophy, which to be honest England have little chance of winning, or do you save them for the double Ashes? England's much vaunted pace attack is thin and inconsistent. It seems to me that some new talent needs to be blooded and England should give Tredwell some match practice given they might want to go two spinners against Australia later in the year.

  • on June 4, 2013, 13:01 GMT

    I don't think Pace is the problem for Woakes. in the 2 ODIs so far his pace from the hand isn't a problem. hes frequently been in the low-to-mid 80s, which is faster than Jimmy A on occasion. However, there just didn't seem to be any 'zip' off the pitch in terms of pace or movement.

    I don't know how best to describe it, bu i think this way; it used to be said that Flintoff bowled a 'heavy' ball. It seems Woakes bowls a 'light' ball.

  • cric_J on June 4, 2013, 13:04 GMT

    I have had my fingers crossed over this injury business during the last 2 days . So it is utterly relieving to hear that Broady and Finny are improving. And that is the least I can say.

    Although the injuries are not too serious ,I am pretty sure that unless both of them are totally fit they won't be risked for the Champ's Trophy with the Ashes around. Not both of them atleast.And not in the first match atleast.

    I heard alot of people suggesting that Broad should be replaced by Woakes in ASAP after NZ's first innings at Lord's and on numerous other occasions. And I was never in favour of those suggestions. Now, I think Woakes has justified my opinion to a large extent with his horrifying couple of performances, although ODI bowling and test bowling have their differences.

    There has been alot of criticism of Dernbach and rightly so.But woakes did very little to escape his bit of criticism .Dernbach surely couldn't conceed 359 runs alone. He had all of Woakes' help to do so.

  • TallHawk on June 4, 2013, 13:10 GMT

    I read somewhere that Dernbach is the most expensive bowler in the history of one-day cricket, ever, of all time, in the world, the universe! Jeeez, just drop the guy...

  • CricketingStargazer on June 4, 2013, 13:45 GMT

    @Speng If one is really cynical one could say that England and Australia have similar issues at present. Both rely too much on one or two batsmen and have delicate pace attacks with unproven resources behind them. However, if you look around Test cricket, there are no sides playing outstanding cricket apart from South Africa. To be honest, the gap between #2 on the ICC rankings and #8 may look huge in the points table, but it has probably never been narrower on current form and results.

    Who is favourite for the Champions Trophy? It's hard to pick one. Quite literally any side could win. You can win just 3 matches out of 5 - all the teams are capable of that - and still win the tournament.