England v WI, World T20 2012, Super Eights, Pallekele September 26, 2012

Unpredictable teams hard to second guess

31

Match Facts

September 27, 2012
Start time 19.30 local (1400GMT/1500BST)

The Big Picture

You never really know what you will get from either of these two teams. West Indies can take apart any bowling line-up but can also let it slip in the field. England can live with the best teams on their day but also lose in embarrassing style. It makes for a fascinating contest.

West Indies have yet to play a full game in this tournament after losing on D/L against Australia and then rain arrived before they could bat against Ireland. It means, like England in 2010, they have progressed without winning a game yet remain a challenger for the title. This time England have managed a victory, but it is their crushing defeat against India which is the game most are talking about.

Darren Sammy could barely contain his smile as he spoke about the potential of Sunil Narine bowling against England in the Super Eights. His confidence is not misplaced. And that is before West Indies' batting power is considered. England's bowling attack is their strength; it will be sorely tested by Chris Gayle, Marlon Samuels, Kieron Pollard and the rest.

The most recent Twenty20 meeting between these two teams ended with England completing their highest T20 chase at Trent Bridge but that was at the tail-end of a tough tour for West Indies. Perhaps a more relevant match to consider is the second of the back-to-back encounters at The Oval last year when a young England side - featuring a number of players in the current squad - were dismantled for 88 on a pitch offering some turn.

Still, for all the familiar questions posed by the defeat against India it does not have to be terminal to England's hopes. The side have responded to adversity in the past and fortunes can change very quickly. A charge for the title looks unlikely, but that was also so in 2010.

Form guide

(Most recent first, completed matches)

England LWWLW
West Indies LWWLW

Watch out for...

It is often said that a players' standing grows in his absence and that was certainly the case for Samit Patel when he was left out against India. His left-arm spin would have been very useful and he is one of the more competent batsmen in the squad against spin - although on recent evidence that judgement is starting at a low base. He at least has the wrist work to place the ball into the gaps and the confidence to use his feet. But he is only one player.

When Sunil Narine was unleashed on England earlier this year it did not go very well for him. In a Test, two ODIs and a Twenty20 he managed a solitary wicket. The expectation won't have helped and he was also battling the damp conditions of an English summer. The challenge for England in Pallekele will be very different. Not that it is likely to spin square, but it does not have to to dumfound England's batsmen. He just needs to be careful about his front foot. There are no excuses for overstepping.

Team news

Patel is likely to return in place of Tim Bresnan to give the side a more balanced look. A complete rethink of tactics is unlikely, although Danny Briggs would be an interesting option if he could be slotted in. Michael Lumb and Ravi Bopara are the other batting choices, but the current top six will probably be given another chance.

England (probable) 1 Craig Kieswetter (wk), 2 Alex Hales, 3 Luke Wright, 4 Eoin Morgan, 5 Jonny Bairstow, 6 Jos Buttler, 7 Samit Patel, 8 Stuart Broad (capt), 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Steven Finn, 11 Jade Dernbach

Dwayne Bravo missed the Ireland game with a groin strain and will slot back in, probably for Andre Russell, if fit again which is looking likely after he came through a net session. There will be a temptation to play the legspinner Samuel Badree although that would mean leaving out either Ravi Rampaul or Fidel Edwards who both bowled well against Ireland.

West Indies (probable) 1 Chris Gayle, 2 Johnson Charles, 3 Darren Bravo, 4 Marlon Samuels, 5 Kieron Pollard, 6 Dwayne Bravo, 7 Darren Sammy, 8 Denesh Ramdin (wk), 9 Sunil Narine, 10 Ravi Rampaul, 11 Fidel Edwards

Pitch and conditions

There was some pace and bounce in the match between Pakistan and Bangladesh - enough for Bangladesh to get carried away with the short ball - which encouraged stroke-making and that bodes well for the Super Eights. What does not bode so well is the continuing threat of rain and as far as that goes it is just a case of fingers crossed.

Stats and trivia

  • In a neat coincidence, West Indies qualified for the Super Eights by scoring 191 in a rain-affected defeat then having a no result against Ireland, which is exactly what happened to England in 2010.

  • England and West Indies have played eight times in T20Is with West Indies 5-3 up on the head-to-head.

Quotes

"Winning World Cups is about winning the important games. There is no point playing like a dream all the way through to the semi-final and losing that one, so it is about developing momentum."
Stuart Broad again makes the point that England picked a good game to have a shocker against India

"I think everyone who comes on to bowl has a big part to play, but Sunil is our trump card. He has done well for us, and we hope he'll have a big impact on the English batting line-up."
Darren Sammy looks forward the prospect of unleashing West Indies' mystery spinner

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • seniorgators on September 27, 2012, 11:31 GMT

    "Winning World Cups is about winning the important games. There is no point playing like a dream all the way through to the semi-final and losing that one, so it is about developing momentum." Nice quote from Chris Broad to try and explain away the debacle against India.Yes you are right, that certainly was not playing like a dream. Fortunately there are no carry through points to the next round Chris so it might not have been an" important game". However I'm not sure how that loss developed any momentum unless you mean backwards!

  • emailmkarthik on September 27, 2012, 8:41 GMT

    Russel is too valuable to be left out man!

  • i_witnessed_2011 on September 27, 2012, 8:40 GMT

    WI needs to keep Russel in the XI. Either they can make him to open the innings or Ask Bravo to keep and Russel comes in place of Ramdin. Russel is very talented and a given good chance , he can be a complete package.

  • JG2704 on September 27, 2012, 7:30 GMT

    @jmcilhinney on (September 27 2012, 01:03 AM GMT) Dernbach is always talked about for the chop- even when he's doing well. Although when they showed his economy in T20 pre the India game it was 6.79 which really surprised me. I agree that Finn is better in tests and ODIs where he is shown more respect but I worry about all our bowlers being able to bowl the Yorker these days. If this pitch is more of a spinning/slow pitch then I'd definitely bring in both Patel and Briggs and possibly open with Briggs although Gayle may be the one batsman who will do better against spin than bounce/pace. Having said that all our bowlers would be mares to face if they used a Yorker outside the off stump as their stock ball and either the bouncer or slower ball as their surprise ball. They just either seem unwilling or unable to do this at present.

  • on September 27, 2012, 7:25 GMT

    Come on Dewayne smith is good but Charles has been scoring more runs. Experience is good but form is even better. Dewayne Smith needs to work on his game.

  • on September 27, 2012, 5:19 GMT

    BADRI SHOULD BA PLAY,,IN PLACE OF Fidel Edwards,AND POLARD COM TO UP IN IN BATTIING LIN UP,,,THESE CHANGE WESTINDIES WIN SURLY,,,,, ENGLAND OPEN WITH LUMB, SWANN BOL IN DEPTH OVER LIK AJMAL,THAN HE WILL SURLY STOP RUN IN DEPTH OVER,

  • satish619chandar on September 27, 2012, 4:46 GMT

    Gayle open with Dwayne/Charles. Get Russel to play at 3. He is too good batsman to be left in sideline in race with tan all rounder. At current form, he is a better hitter than even Dwayne or a Pollard. Please WI, don't waste such a talent. Get Russel no matter where the slot is open. Drop even Darren Bravo. Having him in top order is indirectly robbing the big hitters balls to get in. My 11 would be, Gayle, Charles/D Smith, Russel, Marlon, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Ramdin, Narine, Badree, Rampaul. I bank on them to do the job against England.

  • KunzMan on September 27, 2012, 4:44 GMT

    This group is so easy. Sri Lanka and West Indies will go through. Sri Lanka will top the group by CRUSHING minnows New Zealand, GAYle dependent WI and Lucky England. We are Lankan LIONS and WE ROAR!!!!! MEEEOOOW!

  • satish619chandar on September 27, 2012, 4:41 GMT

    WI is a unpredictable team but England surely is a very much predictable team. Get them to lose their tow 3 soon and they don't have the backup to handle the early loss.

  • VivGilchrist on September 27, 2012, 4:27 GMT

    Charles seems to be a token selection because he is a "batsman". Russel as an all-rounder is a better bat, bowl, and fielder and should be infront of him. Charles should only play if he plays wk ahead of Ramdin. I would actually put Russel ahead of Bravo snr but what would I know? Bravo jnr also doesn't look suited to T20. A big "Hello" to the Bravo family fom VivGilchrist...

  • seniorgators on September 27, 2012, 11:31 GMT

    "Winning World Cups is about winning the important games. There is no point playing like a dream all the way through to the semi-final and losing that one, so it is about developing momentum." Nice quote from Chris Broad to try and explain away the debacle against India.Yes you are right, that certainly was not playing like a dream. Fortunately there are no carry through points to the next round Chris so it might not have been an" important game". However I'm not sure how that loss developed any momentum unless you mean backwards!

  • emailmkarthik on September 27, 2012, 8:41 GMT

    Russel is too valuable to be left out man!

  • i_witnessed_2011 on September 27, 2012, 8:40 GMT

    WI needs to keep Russel in the XI. Either they can make him to open the innings or Ask Bravo to keep and Russel comes in place of Ramdin. Russel is very talented and a given good chance , he can be a complete package.

  • JG2704 on September 27, 2012, 7:30 GMT

    @jmcilhinney on (September 27 2012, 01:03 AM GMT) Dernbach is always talked about for the chop- even when he's doing well. Although when they showed his economy in T20 pre the India game it was 6.79 which really surprised me. I agree that Finn is better in tests and ODIs where he is shown more respect but I worry about all our bowlers being able to bowl the Yorker these days. If this pitch is more of a spinning/slow pitch then I'd definitely bring in both Patel and Briggs and possibly open with Briggs although Gayle may be the one batsman who will do better against spin than bounce/pace. Having said that all our bowlers would be mares to face if they used a Yorker outside the off stump as their stock ball and either the bouncer or slower ball as their surprise ball. They just either seem unwilling or unable to do this at present.

  • on September 27, 2012, 7:25 GMT

    Come on Dewayne smith is good but Charles has been scoring more runs. Experience is good but form is even better. Dewayne Smith needs to work on his game.

  • on September 27, 2012, 5:19 GMT

    BADRI SHOULD BA PLAY,,IN PLACE OF Fidel Edwards,AND POLARD COM TO UP IN IN BATTIING LIN UP,,,THESE CHANGE WESTINDIES WIN SURLY,,,,, ENGLAND OPEN WITH LUMB, SWANN BOL IN DEPTH OVER LIK AJMAL,THAN HE WILL SURLY STOP RUN IN DEPTH OVER,

  • satish619chandar on September 27, 2012, 4:46 GMT

    Gayle open with Dwayne/Charles. Get Russel to play at 3. He is too good batsman to be left in sideline in race with tan all rounder. At current form, he is a better hitter than even Dwayne or a Pollard. Please WI, don't waste such a talent. Get Russel no matter where the slot is open. Drop even Darren Bravo. Having him in top order is indirectly robbing the big hitters balls to get in. My 11 would be, Gayle, Charles/D Smith, Russel, Marlon, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Ramdin, Narine, Badree, Rampaul. I bank on them to do the job against England.

  • KunzMan on September 27, 2012, 4:44 GMT

    This group is so easy. Sri Lanka and West Indies will go through. Sri Lanka will top the group by CRUSHING minnows New Zealand, GAYle dependent WI and Lucky England. We are Lankan LIONS and WE ROAR!!!!! MEEEOOOW!

  • satish619chandar on September 27, 2012, 4:41 GMT

    WI is a unpredictable team but England surely is a very much predictable team. Get them to lose their tow 3 soon and they don't have the backup to handle the early loss.

  • VivGilchrist on September 27, 2012, 4:27 GMT

    Charles seems to be a token selection because he is a "batsman". Russel as an all-rounder is a better bat, bowl, and fielder and should be infront of him. Charles should only play if he plays wk ahead of Ramdin. I would actually put Russel ahead of Bravo snr but what would I know? Bravo jnr also doesn't look suited to T20. A big "Hello" to the Bravo family fom VivGilchrist...

  • TRAM on September 27, 2012, 2:02 GMT

    One Narine is not enough. WI need to have a good spinner to bowl in tandem with Narine. India had Harbajan and Chawla operating together. No team can afford to play 8 consecutive overs defensively. Not sure if Gayle can fit that role. But may be he will.

  • jmcilhinney on September 27, 2012, 1:03 GMT

    @JG2704 on (September 26 2012, 20:13 PM GMT), I'm inclined to agree. I rate Finn as a Test and ODI bowler but I'm not so sure about T20s, particularly on subcontinent tracks. He's never been the most consistently accurate bowler and just a few loose deliveries in T20s will cost you. I'm also a bit concerned about Dernbach. He always bowls in high-pressure situations but 3 wides in a final over is just not good enough. I think that Pallekele has been spinning more than Columbo hasn't it? If so then I would think that at least Patel should be in but Briggs as well or instead. I think that getting Swann on early to Gayle might be a good idea. Gayle seems to ease in for an over or two and Swann has a reputation against lefties so that might be a chance to nip him out early.

  • jmcilhinney on September 27, 2012, 0:57 GMT

    It will be interesting to see how England approach playing Narine in particular. He didn't cause any issues in England but they seem determined to play spin differently, not to mention poorly, on foreign soil. Though relatively inexperienced, Narine definitely appears to be a quality spinner. If England are concerned about the spinners then they may also take undue risk against the pacers, which could lead to more wickets lost to them as well. England's batting was diabolical against India but it was also poor against Pakistan. That was glossed over a little because their bowlers bailed them out. Even a good bowling effort is unlikely to restrict this WI batting lineup to much below 150, so the batsmen need to perform or I'd say it's curtains. If England can make it out of the Super 8s then I'd say that their best chance of winning the tournament would be to meet Australia and SA, the teams least known for spin, in the semis and final. Long odds on England at the moment.

  • on September 27, 2012, 0:46 GMT

    Chris Gayle, Marlon Samuels,and Kieron Pollard need to put 150 runs between them at 10 per over... and the rest 50+ at 10+ per over.

    Ditto:

    Posted by Neil Ramanand on (September 26 2012, 17:37 PM GMT)

    MY 11 would be. Gayle, Smith, Samuels, Bravo Snr, Pollard, Ramdin, Sammy, Russel, Narine, Badree, Rampaul. balanced bowling and batting.

    Bravo JNr. should only be playing long format cricket, building up his stamania and concentration needed for long crease occupations, need lots of reps in a competitive environment to get better,

  • coaxial on September 26, 2012, 21:17 GMT

    England's success of late has been because of their home advantage. They already have been exposed in this tournament and will be embarrased further as it progresses.

  • on September 26, 2012, 20:57 GMT

    The inclusion of Charles and the omission of Badree will be sure indicators that the West Indies are not serious about winning.

  • lee_man on September 26, 2012, 20:15 GMT

    Well, let's see how the English handle Sunil Narine. During the Windies last tour of the England, the English commentators declared that they had solved the 'mystery'. Something to do with his thumb. They also rubbished him as a spinner. So let's see how they handle him now that the conditions are not damp and cold and the wickets wet!!!!

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 20:13 GMT

    @landl47 on (September 26 2012, 18:47 PM GMT) Finn should also be considered re making changes. He may be a handful at times but am I the only person who has noticed that he's going for alot of runs recently

  • rajithwijepura on September 26, 2012, 19:16 GMT

    There was nothing to fear about Sunil Narine. He was very much over rated player who showed only on IPL which was not challenging at all

  • on September 26, 2012, 19:06 GMT

    Sammy is getting over confident here on Sunil narine.. I am sure this is going to hit him hard later if not tomorrow. He is pressurising Sunil as his trump card and also showing off at the same time. Beware: always hide your trump card unless its very lethal like Saeed Ajmal. Sammy does it every time and losses every time.

  • landl47 on September 26, 2012, 18:47 GMT

    I hope England will pick Bresnan or Briggs (depending on the wicket) ahead of Dernbach. Much is made of Dernbach's variations, but they are no use if he can't bowl accurately. 3 spinners in the subcontinent is by no means a strange selection.

  • on September 26, 2012, 18:21 GMT

    Come on Dewayne smith is good but Charles has been scoring more runs. Experience is good but form is even better. Dewayne Smith needs to work on his game.

  • on September 26, 2012, 17:37 GMT

    MY 11 would be. Gayle, Smith, Samuels, Bravo Snr, Pollard, Ramdin, Sammy, Russel, Narine, Badree, Rampaul. balanced bowling and batting.

  • phoenixsteve on September 26, 2012, 17:27 GMT

    This will be an interesting match. Darren Sammy's smile could soon be replaced by a frown? England were pathetic against India recently and perversely this has taken much of the pressure off them! They are being tipped as underdogs because of their spin problems. If WI think that spin is their answer they could have a big shock coming their way? I'd hope to see some sensible batting from England maybe batting first and posting 160 ish - which should be enough. Of course if Chris Gayle (the WC wildcard) gets going it wont matter if it's 260! What a wonderful weapon to have in your armoury and the most exciting batsmen in world cricket. Of course England have chosen not to pick their own wildcard who instead is comentating. They are showing real appreciation to the man who won the tournament for them 2 years ago..... As an England supporter I'm obviously hoping for an England win - but if you have to be beaten then the Windies are my choice! Good luck to both sides! COME ON ENGLAND!!!

  • kkk999 on September 26, 2012, 17:24 GMT

    GAYLE STORM SET TO ARRIVE IN KANDY IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS!!!

  • amemberoftheelect23 on September 26, 2012, 17:04 GMT

    There is no way i would leave out Andre Russell of ODI or T20. The problem is that they keep on using him as a bowler who can bat when his record suggest something else. He has a better batting record than smith and charles (averaging mid 30s in ODI). Badree should also come in for one of the fast bowlers!always bet on spin against england in the subcontinent.

  • on September 26, 2012, 16:40 GMT

    No one cares about this boring group. I'm gonna wait for 28th september, TWO BIG MATCHES coming up: Ind V Aus and Pak V SA. What an entertaining day it would be! :D

  • BRUTALANALYST on September 26, 2012, 16:13 GMT

    Dwayne Smith should play ahead of Charles if he's fit he knows the England bowlers well and has more experience in t20's Charles is a liability

  • RAQ on September 26, 2012, 15:43 GMT

    Not a very unpredictable match, england are way better than WestIndies who are totally relying on chris gale for big total

  • yorkshirematt on September 26, 2012, 15:39 GMT

    Re: stats and trivia. What a bizarre coincidence. Get your money on the windies now!

  • bigdhonifan on September 26, 2012, 15:37 GMT

    After this match Form guide will be (Most recent first, completed 6 matches) England LLWWLW West Indies WLWWLW

  • No featured comments at the moment.

  • bigdhonifan on September 26, 2012, 15:37 GMT

    After this match Form guide will be (Most recent first, completed 6 matches) England LLWWLW West Indies WLWWLW

  • yorkshirematt on September 26, 2012, 15:39 GMT

    Re: stats and trivia. What a bizarre coincidence. Get your money on the windies now!

  • RAQ on September 26, 2012, 15:43 GMT

    Not a very unpredictable match, england are way better than WestIndies who are totally relying on chris gale for big total

  • BRUTALANALYST on September 26, 2012, 16:13 GMT

    Dwayne Smith should play ahead of Charles if he's fit he knows the England bowlers well and has more experience in t20's Charles is a liability

  • on September 26, 2012, 16:40 GMT

    No one cares about this boring group. I'm gonna wait for 28th september, TWO BIG MATCHES coming up: Ind V Aus and Pak V SA. What an entertaining day it would be! :D

  • amemberoftheelect23 on September 26, 2012, 17:04 GMT

    There is no way i would leave out Andre Russell of ODI or T20. The problem is that they keep on using him as a bowler who can bat when his record suggest something else. He has a better batting record than smith and charles (averaging mid 30s in ODI). Badree should also come in for one of the fast bowlers!always bet on spin against england in the subcontinent.

  • kkk999 on September 26, 2012, 17:24 GMT

    GAYLE STORM SET TO ARRIVE IN KANDY IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS!!!

  • phoenixsteve on September 26, 2012, 17:27 GMT

    This will be an interesting match. Darren Sammy's smile could soon be replaced by a frown? England were pathetic against India recently and perversely this has taken much of the pressure off them! They are being tipped as underdogs because of their spin problems. If WI think that spin is their answer they could have a big shock coming their way? I'd hope to see some sensible batting from England maybe batting first and posting 160 ish - which should be enough. Of course if Chris Gayle (the WC wildcard) gets going it wont matter if it's 260! What a wonderful weapon to have in your armoury and the most exciting batsmen in world cricket. Of course England have chosen not to pick their own wildcard who instead is comentating. They are showing real appreciation to the man who won the tournament for them 2 years ago..... As an England supporter I'm obviously hoping for an England win - but if you have to be beaten then the Windies are my choice! Good luck to both sides! COME ON ENGLAND!!!

  • on September 26, 2012, 17:37 GMT

    MY 11 would be. Gayle, Smith, Samuels, Bravo Snr, Pollard, Ramdin, Sammy, Russel, Narine, Badree, Rampaul. balanced bowling and batting.

  • on September 26, 2012, 18:21 GMT

    Come on Dewayne smith is good but Charles has been scoring more runs. Experience is good but form is even better. Dewayne Smith needs to work on his game.