West Indies in New Zealand 2013-14 November 30, 2013

Sammy hopes to learn India lesson

25

Darren Sammy hopes the more laid back environment provided by a tour of New Zealand will help his side recover from the two heavy Test defeats they suffered in India.

West Indies could barely be facing more contrasting conditions: the heat and intensity of the subcontinent, dominated by Sachin Tendulkar's farewell, have been replaced by the calm, green, temperate New Zealand.

After a 30-hour journey that took them from India via Dubai, Bangkok, Sydney and then a night in Christchurch, where they met up with the advance party of Test players who have been facing a New Zealand XI, the squad arrived on a breezy, showery Dunedin today.

"One minute you are in India in the hot, sunny atmosphere and the next you are in Dunedin where the breeze can blow you off your feet," Sammy said, reflecting on the life of the international cricketer.

He acknowledged that the change in conditions will be a tough test for his side - who are without the injured Chris Gayle at the top of the order - although he will have taken solace from seeing Shivnarine Chanderpaul making runs in the warm-up fixture.

"The quick turnaround from India, getting used to the conditions and adapting as quickly as possible will pose a challenge," Sammy said. "India was a lesson for us, to show us where we are compared to the top teams in the world. Now we are playing a team where we are evenly matched. They will know conditions very well and for around three-quarters of our squad it's their first time here."

Sammy was being generous with the three-quarter estimate: now that Gayle is absent, only two of the squad - Chanderpaul and Denesh Ramdin - have Test experience in New Zealand, and Ramdin averages 7.14 in his five matches.

"It's a new environment," Sammy added. "India is cricket crazy and it was all about Sachin - the media was all crazy, but here the guys can relax with not so many cameras in their faces all the time and we can focus more on the game."

The squad is not yet at its full complement with Shane Shillingford and Marlon Samuels having travelled to Perth for tests on their bowling actions after being reported in India. Ottis Gibson, the coach, is with them and the trio are due to arrive in Dunedin over the weekend. Currently, Shillingford and Samuels remain available for the first Test although that could change if the outcome of the testing goes against them.

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • on December 2, 2013, 13:43 GMT

    @MNGC, you might be mistaken in saying that against ZIM, BAN and NZ, Ramdin had a higher average than Bravo, if you meant Darren Bravo. As I recall, Darren had spectacular numbers against these oppositions. I recall a 195 against BAN, I believe.

    I think that WI would do well to train a new keeper because Ramdin has been there for over 8 years and is barely hanging on to a place pn the team. It's hard to believe that you all have no regional keeper who can't to better than Ramdin, given the same length of time, especially with the bat.

  • on December 2, 2013, 9:47 GMT

    I think WI can start training Charles, even if makes 25 per innings, that going to be 2 points higher than Ramdin has made throughout his career. And people who are questioning Sammy, watch out, he is going to be handy with his gentle medium in swinging conditions. of course, it affects the balance with Roach or Rampaul sitting out.

  • mngc1 on December 2, 2013, 1:19 GMT

    @allan alexander. Whilst it is true that Ramdin made this high average against lowly teams, it is higher than what was made by those above him in the order against the same opponents except for Chanderpaul and Samuels. If Powell, Gayle, Braithwaite, Darren Bravo, Sammy, Deonarine were all making more runs then your case would be valid. As it stands he deserves his pick as a BATSMAN before all of these mentioned. Unless of course you dump all six mentioned first.

    WI fans are letting feelings cloud the real issue in that the top's continual failure is being deflected to Ramdin. Fix the top 6 before dealing with #7. Start with dropping Gayle - just check his stats from 2012.

  • Reuelsean on December 2, 2013, 0:42 GMT

    @Brutalanalyst Not like i'm picking up for Ramdin, but the most of the wi team have been doing horrible in test cricket for a long time now. So why single out one player? What about Best, Sammy, and the other players who under perform or simply don't turn up? The reality is that our top order is failing and has failed consistently, most time, one player performs and the rest just fade away.

  • InsideHedge on December 1, 2013, 22:25 GMT

    I'm afraid the WI bowling attack looks terrible for the challenge in NZ. Back in India, they had a one man bowling attack. How ironic that WI have now added Narine, he'll make no difference in these conditions. Also, WI are unlikely to play two spinners even if Shillingford returns with an all-clear.

    It was bizarre to see Sammy not even use the part time spinners (Gayle, Samuels) in India, even Chanders can turn his arm over. Yet the media never questioned him post play. Most of the cricket media is shockingly weak, they fail to ask the tough questions and give updates on injured players but will write pages of Cardusesqe reports/analysis.

    What's the latest on Roach? Anyone know how long he'll be out? Why was he in India in the 1st place? What's the track record of the medical team? Why do so many Windian bowlers break down? Why is Rampaul not part of this squad? Are there fitness questions surrounding him? He always looks to be carrying excess baggage.

  • InsideHedge on December 1, 2013, 22:18 GMT

    Poor Ramdin is taking a beating, it's true he hasn't delivered but some are upset purely because he called out Richards. I take it then that if you're a great player from the past, you can pretty much say anything you want. Look at Boycott, pretty much everything he says makes sense but he's extremely unpopular with the players because he lacks subtlety, and an ability to make criticism constructive. One bad day for England and he just lays into them like a heavyweight boxer.

    @mngc: Agree with the comment on Chanders too. Not only does he expose the tail (right thru his career) but it's incredible how often he's pulled out of a game immediately after having a good one, often with bizarre or unexplained ailments. It's as if to prove how important he is to the side.

  • Rally_Windies on December 1, 2013, 19:56 GMT

    stueps ..

    WI was taught the same lesson 2 years ago in India !

    and 2 years later, they made the same mistakes .....

    for example: They AGAIN did not use Ravi Rampaul (who was the best bowler in India 2 years ago, and the Best Bowler again this series) In the Tests .......

  • BRUTALANALYST on December 1, 2013, 18:37 GMT

    @Allan Alexander I'd hope WI have Jonathan Carter working on his keeping, I see he is another one of these guys who can keep and he is clearly the best rounded batsman technically out of the bunch Charles/Simmons/Thomas/Pooran that has potential to play all formats. Pooran is still a teenager so in future years he could also become a candidate I'm sure there are others out there to.

  • on December 1, 2013, 17:32 GMT

    MARC FERMIN Dhoni and Ramdin debuted Test cricket in the same year the former in Dec 2005 and the latter in July 2005. I agree with you that India were contemplating dropping Dhoni but look at Dhoni's response compared with Ramdin's response.

    You seem to think that training a new keeper is not the answer for WI, but what if Ramdin is suddenly unable to play? he is not immortal you know. Do you not think that 9 years are not enough time for Ramdin to deliver. Dhoni would not now be playing for India today had he delivered stats such as Ramdin's stats.

    Only in WI could stats as his be considered Test standard. If Ramdin were Indian he would have a hard time getting into a Ranji Cup team.

  • on December 1, 2013, 16:32 GMT

    @Allan Alexander I am not saying that Ramdin is as good as any of these greats, but he should aspire to be. I agree he hasn't lived up to his potential, but he is an improving batsman and his stats prove this on first class and regional level. So on this fact he has to be given a decent run in the team to build his confidence. There was a time when India wanted to drop Dhoni because of his glovework and batting, but he was persisted with and look at the benefits India are now receiving.

    And the point about we should be training someone else, I totally agree with. But the key word is TRAINING, not just putting them into the INTERNATIONAL arena where they are not even that confident and REGULARLY making 100's on the regional level. U see that's the problem, no planning no developmental process. That is why we would continue to fail, just put in someone new if someone fails. If he is lucky he would be successful, if not the cycle is just repeated.

  • on December 2, 2013, 13:43 GMT

    @MNGC, you might be mistaken in saying that against ZIM, BAN and NZ, Ramdin had a higher average than Bravo, if you meant Darren Bravo. As I recall, Darren had spectacular numbers against these oppositions. I recall a 195 against BAN, I believe.

    I think that WI would do well to train a new keeper because Ramdin has been there for over 8 years and is barely hanging on to a place pn the team. It's hard to believe that you all have no regional keeper who can't to better than Ramdin, given the same length of time, especially with the bat.

  • on December 2, 2013, 9:47 GMT

    I think WI can start training Charles, even if makes 25 per innings, that going to be 2 points higher than Ramdin has made throughout his career. And people who are questioning Sammy, watch out, he is going to be handy with his gentle medium in swinging conditions. of course, it affects the balance with Roach or Rampaul sitting out.

  • mngc1 on December 2, 2013, 1:19 GMT

    @allan alexander. Whilst it is true that Ramdin made this high average against lowly teams, it is higher than what was made by those above him in the order against the same opponents except for Chanderpaul and Samuels. If Powell, Gayle, Braithwaite, Darren Bravo, Sammy, Deonarine were all making more runs then your case would be valid. As it stands he deserves his pick as a BATSMAN before all of these mentioned. Unless of course you dump all six mentioned first.

    WI fans are letting feelings cloud the real issue in that the top's continual failure is being deflected to Ramdin. Fix the top 6 before dealing with #7. Start with dropping Gayle - just check his stats from 2012.

  • Reuelsean on December 2, 2013, 0:42 GMT

    @Brutalanalyst Not like i'm picking up for Ramdin, but the most of the wi team have been doing horrible in test cricket for a long time now. So why single out one player? What about Best, Sammy, and the other players who under perform or simply don't turn up? The reality is that our top order is failing and has failed consistently, most time, one player performs and the rest just fade away.

  • InsideHedge on December 1, 2013, 22:25 GMT

    I'm afraid the WI bowling attack looks terrible for the challenge in NZ. Back in India, they had a one man bowling attack. How ironic that WI have now added Narine, he'll make no difference in these conditions. Also, WI are unlikely to play two spinners even if Shillingford returns with an all-clear.

    It was bizarre to see Sammy not even use the part time spinners (Gayle, Samuels) in India, even Chanders can turn his arm over. Yet the media never questioned him post play. Most of the cricket media is shockingly weak, they fail to ask the tough questions and give updates on injured players but will write pages of Cardusesqe reports/analysis.

    What's the latest on Roach? Anyone know how long he'll be out? Why was he in India in the 1st place? What's the track record of the medical team? Why do so many Windian bowlers break down? Why is Rampaul not part of this squad? Are there fitness questions surrounding him? He always looks to be carrying excess baggage.

  • InsideHedge on December 1, 2013, 22:18 GMT

    Poor Ramdin is taking a beating, it's true he hasn't delivered but some are upset purely because he called out Richards. I take it then that if you're a great player from the past, you can pretty much say anything you want. Look at Boycott, pretty much everything he says makes sense but he's extremely unpopular with the players because he lacks subtlety, and an ability to make criticism constructive. One bad day for England and he just lays into them like a heavyweight boxer.

    @mngc: Agree with the comment on Chanders too. Not only does he expose the tail (right thru his career) but it's incredible how often he's pulled out of a game immediately after having a good one, often with bizarre or unexplained ailments. It's as if to prove how important he is to the side.

  • Rally_Windies on December 1, 2013, 19:56 GMT

    stueps ..

    WI was taught the same lesson 2 years ago in India !

    and 2 years later, they made the same mistakes .....

    for example: They AGAIN did not use Ravi Rampaul (who was the best bowler in India 2 years ago, and the Best Bowler again this series) In the Tests .......

  • BRUTALANALYST on December 1, 2013, 18:37 GMT

    @Allan Alexander I'd hope WI have Jonathan Carter working on his keeping, I see he is another one of these guys who can keep and he is clearly the best rounded batsman technically out of the bunch Charles/Simmons/Thomas/Pooran that has potential to play all formats. Pooran is still a teenager so in future years he could also become a candidate I'm sure there are others out there to.

  • on December 1, 2013, 17:32 GMT

    MARC FERMIN Dhoni and Ramdin debuted Test cricket in the same year the former in Dec 2005 and the latter in July 2005. I agree with you that India were contemplating dropping Dhoni but look at Dhoni's response compared with Ramdin's response.

    You seem to think that training a new keeper is not the answer for WI, but what if Ramdin is suddenly unable to play? he is not immortal you know. Do you not think that 9 years are not enough time for Ramdin to deliver. Dhoni would not now be playing for India today had he delivered stats such as Ramdin's stats.

    Only in WI could stats as his be considered Test standard. If Ramdin were Indian he would have a hard time getting into a Ranji Cup team.

  • on December 1, 2013, 16:32 GMT

    @Allan Alexander I am not saying that Ramdin is as good as any of these greats, but he should aspire to be. I agree he hasn't lived up to his potential, but he is an improving batsman and his stats prove this on first class and regional level. So on this fact he has to be given a decent run in the team to build his confidence. There was a time when India wanted to drop Dhoni because of his glovework and batting, but he was persisted with and look at the benefits India are now receiving.

    And the point about we should be training someone else, I totally agree with. But the key word is TRAINING, not just putting them into the INTERNATIONAL arena where they are not even that confident and REGULARLY making 100's on the regional level. U see that's the problem, no planning no developmental process. That is why we would continue to fail, just put in someone new if someone fails. If he is lucky he would be successful, if not the cycle is just repeated.

  • siddhartha87 on December 1, 2013, 16:13 GMT

    i am surprised that Sammy is still in the squad. The way he batted in India was terrible.Moreover Sammy 's inclusion disturbs the balance of the team as they need to keep out a bowler or a batsman.

  • on December 1, 2013, 15:16 GMT

    BRUTAL ANALYST, are you not making excuses for Ramdin who has been on the team for almost 9 years and who is still struggling to hold his place even after having played 53 Test and 89 innings? There comes a time when one has to say that Ramdin is a failed player, so let's train someone new.

  • on December 1, 2013, 15:03 GMT

    MARK FERMIN I am accepting that you did the research and found that "Since Ramdin's return in May 2012 he has the 3rd highest average among all wicketkeepers (46.42 behind AB de Villier's 65.00 and MS Dhoni's 53.29) in this period.

    What you fail to mention is that for Ramdin's 46.42, was mostly compiled against ZIM, BAN and NZ whereas DeViliers and Dhoni were against all comers. That's an important difference you omitted in your comparison.

    I can look at Dhoni's and DeVilliers' averages against ZIN, BAN and NZ and they would far exceed Ramdin's average against the same opponents. Ramdin is just not in their class so don't try to put him there. In fact, he is struggling to hold his place in the WI team.

  • mngc1 on December 1, 2013, 14:09 GMT

    @brutal analyst. Acclimatized yes. But that is all. When Ramdin was there last time he was in a slump. Since 2012 he has averaged 50. Walton did not shine in the regional 4 day tournament and keeping to Narine and Shillingford will be the key to WI success. Ramdin has a big edge in this. # 1 - 6 have to perform with the bat for WI because this set of bowlers (except for Narine sometimes) cannot really bat.

    If the test was in the first or last day, I would agree with Ramdin holding the strike. In this case there were more than 2 days to go plus the whole Indian inning. That partnership would have had to make at least 300 to save the match and this has never happened in the history of cricket.

  • fairtalk on December 1, 2013, 13:53 GMT

    I seriously dont know why ramdin is still in team.The way he contibutes to team doesnt make any sense. I donno abt that 46 average .He has never contributed when team needs him.. He even mocked viv for a fluke ton.. He doesnt deserve a spot in WI.. even in bangladesh test team he doesnt desevre a spot.. no disrespects bangldesh is a fine teasy team now

  • BRUTALANALYST on December 1, 2013, 12:51 GMT

    @mngc It shows he's there and acclimatized half the side are jet lagged and haven't even participated in a warm up plus Ramdin averaged 7 last time he was here why not give Walton a chance to shine he can't don any worse. The game was lost but the damage could have been minimised they could have at least tried to prevent an innings defeat and I have spoke about Chanderpaul doing the same it's pathetic, Rohit Sharma showed them how it's done on his debut,

  • mngc1 on December 1, 2013, 0:41 GMT

    @brutal analyst. When Ramdin took the single the match was impossible to save so the only thing at stake was retention of his place. I would have done the same thing in the same circumstances. You are hitting him for this when Chanderpaul is the biggest culprit for exposing tailenders. He did it in England repeatedly.

    Given the current losing streak from WI how about you naming ANY CONSISTENT match winning WI batsman in the last year? Even Gayle has had a terrible streak (in all matches he had less than 20 in 22 out of 24 consecutive matches). Ramdin alone is not to blame. His average against India was behind Chanderpaul and I think Samuels. There are many in line before him to be dropped including Sammy, Deonarine and even Darren Bravo if you go by numbers.

    By the way why is Walton's half century in a match that had no finish in sight against opposition just going through the motions any better than Ramdin's century in a lost cause?

  • on November 30, 2013, 20:19 GMT

    @BRUTALANALYST.. Who in the West Indies team played a great innings in a victory??????? If you want to blame Ramdin for this it is better you blame the entire team. Do you think bringing in Walton who can't even CONSTANTLY perform against out mediocre players in the Caribbean will make West Indies a better side, then you should apply for a job on the selector panel because I think you would fit quite nicely.

    Our real problem is our batsmen (barring Chanderpaul) ARE NOT SKILFUL. Darren Bravo probably has the most skill and still he has MANY GLARING technical flaw that he doesn't seem to want to correct (eg. late cutting when he should be playing straight).

    While I agree Ramdin was totally out of place in disrespecting Sir Viv, I believe he apologised and deserves a second chance. Since his reinstatement he has been doing fairly well, too bad our top order batsmen do not have the skill to bat longer, then we may have seen him playing some match winning innings, who knows....

  • BRUTALANALYST on November 30, 2013, 17:43 GMT

    @Marc wow he has an average of 46 guess why ? Every time W.I bat second they're usually out of the game and he comes in with all fielders in slips or close he scores runs in dead situations dead rubbers and considers it an achievement the "Talk NAh Viv" sums him up a 100 in a meaningless dead rubber when W.I had already been thrashed without him contributing seemed to be such a big deal to him he could call out the biggest legend of W.I cricket he's a joke. Take the last game v India he was playing for a 50 it was embarrassing he looked real worried to keep strike form tail ender when he was in 40's as soon as he got his 50 he took single and Cotrell was bowled. The other reason is because W.I bowlers have not progressed like other nations who can bat so he often stays not out can you now back up how I'm wrong and show me someTest match winning innings form him ?

  • on November 30, 2013, 17:23 GMT

    @BRUTALANALYST, I think you should do a little more analysing and stop being so brutal. Since Ramdin's return in May 2012 he has the 3rd highest average among all wicketkeepers (46.42 behind AB de Villier's 65.00 and MS Dhoni's 53.29) in this period. I agree his overall average isn't that great and he should be converting more 50's to 100's, but this could only happen if the selectors, and by extension we fans, support him and he feels his place is safe.

    MS Dhoni has often says he gives his players a run of around 5 (I can't remember the exact figure) Test matches to prove themselves as Test players. It's only us West Indians that are quick to throw away our own. No wonder we can't sustain any kind of success......

  • BRUTALANALYST on November 30, 2013, 12:28 GMT

    1.Powell 2.Edwards 3.Bravo 4.Samuels 5.Chanderpau 6.Walton (k) 7.Sammy 8. Best 9.Narine 10.Shillingford 11. Cotrell. This will likely be the 11 if they're sticking with 5 batsman Edwards will open as Brathwaite still hasn't arrived and Walton who top scored in the secong innings of the warm up game should be given a shot instead of Ramdin who has been terrible as long as I can remember and amazingly averages In these conditions 7 ! ? really Ramdin has never done anything of note and Walton deserves a shot.

  • Jalz007 on November 30, 2013, 10:25 GMT

    Competition among equals!!Hope at least now the West Indies apply them selves & regain some of their lost ground, restore their pride by winning the tests in NZ...

  • Frayninho21 on November 30, 2013, 10:10 GMT

    I don't think lessons have been learned as the squad is still lacking its most accomplished quick bowler in Ravi Rampaul. He looked fit and menacing in the ODI's vs India and took a lot of their top order wickets. He would surely have prospered in more helpful swing bowling conditions. Also, the preparations have been farcical with only 5 West Indians playing in the 'West Indian' XI in the warm-up. They will be going in to this test match 'cold' (literally and metaphorically) and appear there for the taking by NZ. The situation with Samuels, Shillingford and Gibson all being in Perth can't be helping and with the back-up opener Brathwaite marooned in Barbados waiting for a visa, the West Indies could be further depleted by the time the first test comes around next week.

  • TurningSquare on November 30, 2013, 10:02 GMT

    The Lesson to be learnt here for Sammy is to drop himself because that only seems the only way he would be removed from the side. He either needs to learn to bowl quicker or focus on his batting alone for ODI's and T20's. Holder should play tests and learn to bowl a fuller length and they need Roach back and bowling fast, his speeds tailed away lately.

  • on November 30, 2013, 9:43 GMT

    I attended the test in Dundedin about 5 years ago between these tow sides and it was in the summer but it was cold and windy. Some of the West Indian players wore wool gloves whilst fielding and even the locals were well wrapped up with blankets. Crazy to play this time of the year down on the South Island as summer only really begins there in January.

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  • on November 30, 2013, 9:43 GMT

    I attended the test in Dundedin about 5 years ago between these tow sides and it was in the summer but it was cold and windy. Some of the West Indian players wore wool gloves whilst fielding and even the locals were well wrapped up with blankets. Crazy to play this time of the year down on the South Island as summer only really begins there in January.

  • TurningSquare on November 30, 2013, 10:02 GMT

    The Lesson to be learnt here for Sammy is to drop himself because that only seems the only way he would be removed from the side. He either needs to learn to bowl quicker or focus on his batting alone for ODI's and T20's. Holder should play tests and learn to bowl a fuller length and they need Roach back and bowling fast, his speeds tailed away lately.

  • Frayninho21 on November 30, 2013, 10:10 GMT

    I don't think lessons have been learned as the squad is still lacking its most accomplished quick bowler in Ravi Rampaul. He looked fit and menacing in the ODI's vs India and took a lot of their top order wickets. He would surely have prospered in more helpful swing bowling conditions. Also, the preparations have been farcical with only 5 West Indians playing in the 'West Indian' XI in the warm-up. They will be going in to this test match 'cold' (literally and metaphorically) and appear there for the taking by NZ. The situation with Samuels, Shillingford and Gibson all being in Perth can't be helping and with the back-up opener Brathwaite marooned in Barbados waiting for a visa, the West Indies could be further depleted by the time the first test comes around next week.

  • Jalz007 on November 30, 2013, 10:25 GMT

    Competition among equals!!Hope at least now the West Indies apply them selves & regain some of their lost ground, restore their pride by winning the tests in NZ...

  • BRUTALANALYST on November 30, 2013, 12:28 GMT

    1.Powell 2.Edwards 3.Bravo 4.Samuels 5.Chanderpau 6.Walton (k) 7.Sammy 8. Best 9.Narine 10.Shillingford 11. Cotrell. This will likely be the 11 if they're sticking with 5 batsman Edwards will open as Brathwaite still hasn't arrived and Walton who top scored in the secong innings of the warm up game should be given a shot instead of Ramdin who has been terrible as long as I can remember and amazingly averages In these conditions 7 ! ? really Ramdin has never done anything of note and Walton deserves a shot.

  • on November 30, 2013, 17:23 GMT

    @BRUTALANALYST, I think you should do a little more analysing and stop being so brutal. Since Ramdin's return in May 2012 he has the 3rd highest average among all wicketkeepers (46.42 behind AB de Villier's 65.00 and MS Dhoni's 53.29) in this period. I agree his overall average isn't that great and he should be converting more 50's to 100's, but this could only happen if the selectors, and by extension we fans, support him and he feels his place is safe.

    MS Dhoni has often says he gives his players a run of around 5 (I can't remember the exact figure) Test matches to prove themselves as Test players. It's only us West Indians that are quick to throw away our own. No wonder we can't sustain any kind of success......

  • BRUTALANALYST on November 30, 2013, 17:43 GMT

    @Marc wow he has an average of 46 guess why ? Every time W.I bat second they're usually out of the game and he comes in with all fielders in slips or close he scores runs in dead situations dead rubbers and considers it an achievement the "Talk NAh Viv" sums him up a 100 in a meaningless dead rubber when W.I had already been thrashed without him contributing seemed to be such a big deal to him he could call out the biggest legend of W.I cricket he's a joke. Take the last game v India he was playing for a 50 it was embarrassing he looked real worried to keep strike form tail ender when he was in 40's as soon as he got his 50 he took single and Cotrell was bowled. The other reason is because W.I bowlers have not progressed like other nations who can bat so he often stays not out can you now back up how I'm wrong and show me someTest match winning innings form him ?

  • on November 30, 2013, 20:19 GMT

    @BRUTALANALYST.. Who in the West Indies team played a great innings in a victory??????? If you want to blame Ramdin for this it is better you blame the entire team. Do you think bringing in Walton who can't even CONSTANTLY perform against out mediocre players in the Caribbean will make West Indies a better side, then you should apply for a job on the selector panel because I think you would fit quite nicely.

    Our real problem is our batsmen (barring Chanderpaul) ARE NOT SKILFUL. Darren Bravo probably has the most skill and still he has MANY GLARING technical flaw that he doesn't seem to want to correct (eg. late cutting when he should be playing straight).

    While I agree Ramdin was totally out of place in disrespecting Sir Viv, I believe he apologised and deserves a second chance. Since his reinstatement he has been doing fairly well, too bad our top order batsmen do not have the skill to bat longer, then we may have seen him playing some match winning innings, who knows....

  • mngc1 on December 1, 2013, 0:41 GMT

    @brutal analyst. When Ramdin took the single the match was impossible to save so the only thing at stake was retention of his place. I would have done the same thing in the same circumstances. You are hitting him for this when Chanderpaul is the biggest culprit for exposing tailenders. He did it in England repeatedly.

    Given the current losing streak from WI how about you naming ANY CONSISTENT match winning WI batsman in the last year? Even Gayle has had a terrible streak (in all matches he had less than 20 in 22 out of 24 consecutive matches). Ramdin alone is not to blame. His average against India was behind Chanderpaul and I think Samuels. There are many in line before him to be dropped including Sammy, Deonarine and even Darren Bravo if you go by numbers.

    By the way why is Walton's half century in a match that had no finish in sight against opposition just going through the motions any better than Ramdin's century in a lost cause?

  • BRUTALANALYST on December 1, 2013, 12:51 GMT

    @mngc It shows he's there and acclimatized half the side are jet lagged and haven't even participated in a warm up plus Ramdin averaged 7 last time he was here why not give Walton a chance to shine he can't don any worse. The game was lost but the damage could have been minimised they could have at least tried to prevent an innings defeat and I have spoke about Chanderpaul doing the same it's pathetic, Rohit Sharma showed them how it's done on his debut,