India in South Africa 2013-14

Decision on India's SA tour likely 'before weekend'

Amol Karhadkar

October 17, 2013

Comments: 113 | Text size: A | A

Haroon Lorgat, the ICC chief executive, at the annual conference, Kuala Lumpur, June 26, 2012
Haroon Lorgat may be sent "on long leave" by CSA © Getty Images
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There appears to be headway into the discussions between Cricket South Africa and the BCCI, taking place over India's tour to South Africa, even before the heads of the two boards meet in London as part of the ICC's executive board. The final decision with regard to the tour is expected to be made "before the weekend".

During a "fruitful" discussion between both the parties in Mumbai on October 12, the BCCI had offered to play two Tests and three ODIs in the month of December on the condition that CSA chief executive Haroon Lorgat is not involved in India affairs in future.

ESPNcricinfo understands that CSA has offered to "send Lorgat on long leave" in order to ensure that the tour go ahead.

It is also understood that CSA has also informed the BCCI bosses that they would be working out a plan before the end of the tour to ensure Lorgat is not involved in future dealings with the BCCI.

Should CSA's proposal to keep Lorgat out of any engagement with the BCCI come through, the itinerary for the tour of South Africa is being mulled by the BCCI. There is a possibility that the BCCI might even accede to CSA's wish to play three Tests, instead of two, should discussions end in agreement. If the BCCI agrees to keep its team in South Africa for the New Year's Test, that would help CSA reduce its projected loss in revenue.

The Indian board is known to have had tetchy relations with Lorgat during his stint as ICC CEO.

The series between India and South Africa has been hanging in balance since July 9, when the BCCI raised objections to the tour itinerary a day after it was announced by CSA. Previously, it had raised "concerns" over Lorgat being in the running for the CSA top job.

While a meeting between Sanjay Patel and Lorgat in Dubai last month failed to resolve the boards' issues, the deadlock was broken when CSA president Chris Nenzani was invited to India for a meeting after N Srinivasan was reinstated as the BCCI chief in early October.

With inputs from Firdose Moonda

Amol Karhadkar is a correspondent at ESPNcricinfo

RSS Feeds: Amol Karhadkar

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

Posted by MWaqqar on (October 20, 2013, 18:22 GMT)

The problem is cricket boards are all too eager to please BCCI and make a buck. If CSA is in bad books West Indies and NZ boards are ready to step in. Tomorrow when these boards will be in bad books other boards will step in to reap a benefit. Even now Pak and SL are ready to step in if there is a slot available in Dec

Posted by milepost on (October 20, 2013, 14:59 GMT)

This is ridiculous. The best thing for cricket is that boards stop bowing at the BCCI altar. CSA should tell them to go jump in the lake. I continue to boycott anything the BCCI has anything to do with and encourage Indian fans to pressure their board not to be so useless. Of course we want to see India in world cricket but this latest episode is just a continuation of heir utter awfulness.

Posted by Shiny-Side on (October 18, 2013, 20:26 GMT)

To all Cricket boards and administrators: You are here to serve cricket. Cricket is not here to serve you.

Posted by Harmony111 on (October 18, 2013, 19:26 GMT)

@shane-oh:

Let me guess, now we won't be seeing you here too. If you think you can get away from me after making ridiculous statements then you are wrong. I might have been more merciful had you not initially claimed how upright, reasonable, enlightened, truthful you were. But you made that assertion initially and then proceeded to give really awful explanations. You gave stats in favour of Jimmy but then said you neves said those stats were any great. This forced me to ask you why did you then give those stats, what was your point? You had no point and you had no answer so you hastily disappeared from that place and here you tried to give the impression as if you were some super reasonable chap.

I have rebutted every comment made by you and I have posed several questions to you none of which have been answered by you.

Right now you have a trembling upper lip and you want to run for cover from here too. I don't mind that actually. Have a happy retreat.

Posted by Harmony111 on (October 18, 2013, 18:14 GMT)

@shane-oh: Oh yeah we saw plenty of your reasoning on that thread. You came there boasting of your enlightened approach for debating but all you could finally produce as reasoning was when you said that Anderson is so good his HOME avg is 8 below his AWAY avg but your brilliant reasoning abilities did not allow you to see that Jimmy's less 8 avg AT HOME was still a very high 27. This when top class bowlers aggregate avg tends to be less than 25.

In other words, you were like someone who was saying how much of a genius he was that he had managed to improve his first year's percentage by a whopping 20 points but the fact was that the prev year's percentage was 45% & the second year's percentage was a mere 65%.

Anyone can see just how brilliant you are at reasoning. Enjoy your enlightened approach my dear, it is fully lit with black light.

Posted by shane-oh on (October 18, 2013, 16:43 GMT)

@Harmony111 - eventually, you give up trying to reason with someone. Some people can be helped, some can't.

Posted by Harmony111 on (October 18, 2013, 16:33 GMT)

@Atholl Canterbury:

If Lorgat is soooo good as you think he is then tell me what did he do to end the current crisis? He had said he would walk the extra mile to improve the situation with BCCI but for more than a month since he took over he did nothing. In fact he did nothing out of the way. ICC had an official meet in Dubai in mid September and he met BCCI officials only there. He held no special meetings with BCCI. Even in that mid September meet, he failed to achieve anything. What sort of an administrator is Mr Lorgat?

You assume that cos BCC is irked by Lorgat so he must have done something good. Talking of corruption, Gibbs & Boje are wanted by Indian Police for questioning in the Cronje Scandal. Did Lorgat offer any help there?

Lastly, even CSA have agreed to sideline Lorgat now. Surely they know more than us.

@Shane-oh:

So you are commenting here but kid what happened to you on that other forum viz ----Anderson aims for 400 Test wickets----???

You ran away?

Posted by ThatsJustCricket on (October 18, 2013, 15:14 GMT)

I see a lot of comments here from the indian fans on "payback for earlier Aus/Eng regime" sort of things. The problem with an eye for an eye strategy is that eventually everyone ends up blind. Cricket is anyway a minority sport on the global map and with this kind of attitude we are alienating members of that already small community.

Posted by ZCFOutkast on (October 18, 2013, 14:53 GMT)

This is madness. India is the most powerful, profitable and crucial nation as far as the game is concerned. Outcomes of CLT20, IPL & many top level ICC meetings hinge on negotiations and non-stop dealings with the BCCI. If our CEO won't be directly accessible to them what is his relevance? He's already failed in pushing for more stringent quotas! We had options in Shongwe, Lupuwana & Morobe perhaps even Ntini. Why didn't we appoint them? Oh yes, the consequences of a certain board voting along certain lines. Now we're stuck with him or CSA faces a hefty pay out! At least now no one will be able to tell me years later, when inevitable changes have happened of course, that "in the past we had smarter people making decisions in the board"!

Posted by rajnmohan on (October 18, 2013, 13:34 GMT)

R Srinivasan is spoiling the name of BCCI and India. He has some personal issues with Lorgat. So he is keeping his person ego in front while doing nothing for the game and the fans.

Posted by shane-oh on (October 18, 2013, 13:19 GMT)

@MarkTasman - equal respect for all members would be fantastic! Unfortunately we have nothing like that, and are moving away from that ideal all the time.

Posted by MarkTasman on (October 18, 2013, 12:58 GMT)

All of this bleating about the so called illegitimate power of the BCCI these days. For goodness sake, not a patch on the almighty MCC for so many years! Perhaps those living on the 'whiter side of the street' don't much like change? About time. A bit of equal respect for all members of the ICC is long overdue. From an Aussie.

Posted by Sheela on (October 18, 2013, 12:45 GMT)

It is true that India showed its might through its money power. At the same, if newspaper reports are correct, South African Board officials have also presumed to have observed that absence of tour by India would be minimal in effect. Hence South African Board also wanted to show its monetary power and in this they miserably failed. So no use blaming one side only.

Posted by venkatesh018 on (October 18, 2013, 12:42 GMT)

@ Farce-follower: Bang On. I think the BCCI won't stop short of anything to make their team win.

Posted by TheCricketeer on (October 18, 2013, 11:43 GMT)

@Rohit - I dont think the Sachin retirement tests were driven by Lorgat issue. I think the gesture to have Sachin play and retire after 200th test at home is an honoroble and understandable one (and seperate to the SA issue).

However - maybe if the boards were on better terms we could have seen a 6 test home and away tour between the two countries - that would have been awesome and maybe Sachin would have been excited enough to see through the SA leg after playing no.200 at home. Administrators.....

Posted by android_user on (October 18, 2013, 11:42 GMT)

This will not happen. Tendulkar has already said he's looking forward to retiring on home soil.... Perhaps he should be censured too for making pre-mature statements

Posted by android_user on (October 18, 2013, 11:41 GMT)

This will not happen. Tendulkar has already said he's looking forward to retiring on home soil.... Perhaps he should be censured too for making pre-mature statements

Posted by Pandeyjii on (October 18, 2013, 11:29 GMT)

All said and done . . . . . a 2 match series dont serve any purpose, at least 3 matches should be there in any Test Match series

Posted by tennakoon63 on (October 18, 2013, 11:21 GMT)

India has become a typical bully in international cricket. Every board has to dance to its whims and fancies if they want fixtures set up with India.

Posted by ajaym55 on (October 18, 2013, 10:33 GMT)

@ anton_ego: If you live in the same world I do then this is normal. Whether justifiable or not, moral/right or not, the entire world behaves like this. So I cannot understand your histrionics. There is a way you can help, if you and like minded people stop watching cricket and a critical mass develops, there will be little money to be made and BCCI will lose its power and rightousness will be restored!

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 10:17 GMT)

Looks like it is a season of cricket board chief's going on long leaves. First it was Mr.Srinivasan who went on a leave and left Mr.Dalmiya behind to take care of the BCCI, now it is Mr.Lorgat's turn to take a long leave!

Posted by anton_ego on (October 18, 2013, 9:47 GMT)

Clearly, wish for freedom has taken over greed for money. If I am a South African cricket fan, I will feel that my apex body for cricket has willfully submitted itself to slavery. What a shame! Everybody knows the truth. But nobody complains. What are the players doing? What are the Sachins and Kallises thinking? None of them witnessing that the game of cricket is taken for a ride by the money-minded people? As a cricket fan, how can I view this series as a fan, provided it materializes? Can I cloud my mind from this pre-series mess and enjoy the cricket? I don't think so. Sorry I'm slowly switching away from cricket and enjoying the Premier League these days.

Posted by shane-oh on (October 18, 2013, 9:34 GMT)

@Rohit - are you serious? Because of Lorgat? Face reality, my friend, your board is out of control. This is a pathetic state of affairs. It reminds me of my 3 year old nephew throwing his toys out of the box when he can't have what he wants.

More than that though, it's scary. The BCCI will bring down the international game. As a cricket fan, it breaks my heart to see their actions over the last 5-10 years. Why do other nations even bother electing chairmen - just get the BCCI to pick them for us!

Posted by dgcov on (October 18, 2013, 9:07 GMT)

Frankly, I think it's ridiculous for South Africa's cricket future to be hostage to the BCCI and I think the notion of sending Lorgat away so that the Indians don't have to talk to him is to bow to the rantings of a petulant child.

If the Indians don't want to play us, then fine; they don't have to play us. I'm sure the Indian fans won't mind. What are Ireland doing at the end of the year?

Posted by LionsofLanka on (October 18, 2013, 7:16 GMT)

I think all SAFA fans are patriotic now in making opinions here. Since they (both India & Saf boards) have any confidence in each other, they should call of this tour in a mutually agreed conditions. The SAFA fans would be highly delighted to see board's action. The Majola chapter made dramatic changes in internal politics of SAFA board. There are hoards of anti BCCI wave within SAFA board and they have to use this for their political survival. Hence their long timed friendship with India ended. Now SAFA board can overcome the financial losses by holding triangular Test series with Pakistan & Sri Lanka. There will be 4 test matches, i.e., 3 round robin & final. Since Pakistan had beaten Safa comprehensively, it will attract more viewership than that of against india. If this would happen, imagine what will Sena, Herath, Slinga & thisu do against Safa & Pak. Sri Lanka knows how to play with Pak & Safa, It will be Sl-Pk final and lions will be winner only.

Posted by Rohit... on (October 18, 2013, 7:02 GMT)

I don't know if Lorgat is victim or is getting what he is deserved... But it is a fact that it is because of him that INDIA-SA series was shortened and Sachin had to retire against WI and not against SA.... No Sachin Fan can forgive him.

Posted by electric_loco_WAP4 on (October 18, 2013, 6:27 GMT)

Sad seeing yet another falling victim to BCCI -Bullying and Controlling Cricket of India board -Would've bee better if SA had asked a polite leave from the meeting and look to invite another country to tour them for home series .Then again, prospect of Ind playing them on home pitches was too enticing after taking a beating in the UAE .

Posted by Biso on (October 18, 2013, 5:19 GMT)

@justIPL:It is india who have to ensure full series in line with ftp and pay penalties if they deviate from that...Amazing. LOL. Pray tell me the name of the last drink you had before you made that comment. I need that too. It seems like a real problem solver.. 2 Tests or 3, The combination of tests and ODI's will be decided keeping in mind the WI and NZ series and BCCI will not do anything to shift any of them. It is however, possible ( keeping in view the past experience ) that the Indian team might rush to the playground in SA right from the airport with no time for acclimatisation or practice matches. For all those here who have opinions like," CSA must call off the tour", I bet Lorgat's opinions are surely a shade better than theirs. But, look at what Lorgat has got CSA into!

Posted by blthndr on (October 18, 2013, 4:52 GMT)

poor administration and arrogance attitude from both side......i m nt supporting bcci bt their is no effort from lorgat also....as a chief os CSA he must hav tried his best to solve this issue rather silence on this issue.....and bcci also doesnt want to loose CSA as their ally....i thnk they are also thnk about future....in currrent situation most probably bcci knows there is no better option to CSA to host next IPL as election will be held next year in india....so both are needy one...

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 4:50 GMT)

I cannot agree to what BCCI are doing here. Making cricket suffer for non-cricket reasons is bad enough. Holding CSA hostage just for Lorgat is totally unjust and unethical. But then again, we are talking about a board which had audacity to say that the players play for BCCi and not for India.....

Posted by crick_sucks on (October 18, 2013, 4:12 GMT)

To Cricinfo, Please quote the spokesperson from where you get the information. Don't use lines like "It is understood that...", " ESPNCricinfo understands that....". We are not interested in what your understanding is. We are capable enough to come to our own conclusions. You just report things by quoting comments and let us decide. You are creating a lot of confusion in the mind of readers. People have some preconceived notions about India and read your articles about your understanding of the issue and come to a conclusion based on no concrete evidence. Plus you seem to be giving more weightage to anti-india comments even though they are not based on facts just to show yourself in a good light that you are a unbiased media. Please post comments that are based on facts and not wishful bashing.

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 3:31 GMT)

Privilegetheatre Chantimelle Grenada, dont cry out.. now you know who is ruling the cricket world?? BCCI is sometimes above ICC... Plz live with it....

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 3:21 GMT)

oh come on what is it ? a negotiation for a combined combat military strike ? Either cancel the tour, postpone the tour or carry on with the tour and what a drag on period for such a small decision nearly 2 months.

Posted by popcorn on (October 18, 2013, 3:19 GMT)

I wish the other Cricket Boards had more Haroon Lorgats to tell BCCI's Srinivasan where to get off. He pokes his nose in other countries affairs, and demands that CSA remove THEIR CEO while he shamefacedly says he only wants the good for Indian Cricket. HOWZAT, UMPIRE ICC? Oh, I forgot - ICCis a pawn of BCCI too! Sic.

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 3:18 GMT)

2 test , 3 odi and 1 t20 enough

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 1:58 GMT)

Keep whining. You have to preserve the power to be in power- that's the rule of the game. That's what Australia did, that's what England did. Now that India has become to powerhouse, why should it try and act equal. It's not equal. You dont mess with BCCI and get away with it. Ask a certain Steve Bucknor.

Posted by avmd on (October 18, 2013, 1:57 GMT)

This is absolutely insulting for CSA even to discuss with India on this topic and now they are ready to fire Logart to please India, pathetic. India on other hand should not be demanding this. Maturity and responsibility should come with power and India, being the most powerful board, should have shown some.

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 1:18 GMT)

Let's say I am invited to your house and you're throwing an expensive party for me. Do I get to dictate that certain members of your family aren't allowed to be in the house while I'm there? Do I get to pick who is or isn't allowed to talk to me? Do I get to choose who is or isn't allowed to be involved in the preparations and clean up?

If your answer to any of the above questions is yes you should immediately enrol yourself for therapy.

Posted by   on (October 18, 2013, 0:29 GMT)

Harmony 111 says: "... CSA would be well advised to keep this man away from all future events for their own good ..." 'oh yeah?'

Maybe it's the other way around ... the opposite conclusion .... you know, like vice versa ...

It's looking more like there's --{Something about Mr Lorgat}-- that's just too good .... something that exposed the dirt on Indian Cricket ??

Like when the ICC established it's Anti Corruption Committee to eliminate the greatest threat to world cricket.

No No No, it's the other way around !! CSA would be well advised to KEEP Mr Lorgat .. especially when dealing with Indian Cricket Administrators.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 23:08 GMT)

hard to believe some of the comments already posted here. its just common sense. all cricket boards are autonomous bodies. one should not interfere in the matters of others and all relations should be professional and for the good of cricket. as a neutral observer and having nothing against the BCCI, i just feel that professionalism and the spirit of cricket is been forgotten in the entire situation and egos and money is dictating the course of events. Though it is always a treat to watch good cricket among the best sides however given this scenario my interest is already limited. this incidence has set up a example for things to follow in the future.

Posted by android_user on (October 17, 2013, 22:51 GMT)

why SA is bowing in front of BCCI.SA not sent a good message to world cricket.if you are rich board u have to respect others but bcci just a crap.one day BCCI will arrange everything in India..all cricket world is skeeping..where are the Aussies.NZ...ALL are folliwing bcci.not good for cricket.

Posted by icyram on (October 17, 2013, 21:52 GMT)

ENOUGH is ENOUGH. How long is ICC going to hide and keep saying"ICC doesn't interfere in Bilateral series, ICC is just a collection of boards bla bla". It is saddening to see as Indian and a cricket fan that BCCI is literally bullying the World Cricket Community. Being an Indian I feel ashamed of this Cricket board that is run by Politicians whose motto is just to milk money. CSA did make a mistake by announcing the schedule without taking approval from India, but how can a cricket board dictate terms to another board on who to have during the talks and whom not to. ICC seems so impotent and has become a laughing stock. if ICC and rest of the boards doesn't get their act right, there will be no cricket left to be cheered in a decade or two. I agree with one of the folks here, that rest of the boards need to come together and shunt out BCCI. If there is no international Cricket, BCCI's revenue will take a dent. And let's see how many people turn out to C IPL without International stars.

Posted by ZennBanda on (October 17, 2013, 21:37 GMT)

Hi, It is pathetic that CSA is bowing down to the orders of the BCCI. CSA does not have a spine and for money they are ready to do anything. If they have an iota of dignity they should ask the BCCI to mind their own business. For money people in CSA are ready to sacrifice anything!! what a tragic state of affairs. At least one of the so called elite cricket boards should teach this BCCI a good lesson!!!This is a disgrace to the South African and Indian people.

Posted by Beertjie on (October 17, 2013, 21:02 GMT)

Spot on @Atholl Canterbury on (October 17, 2013, 15:51 GMT). Amol Karhadkar is not only duplicitous - he is gutless and one sided. He permits moronic arguments by those supportive of BCCI but declines to publish well-reasoned counters and appropriate analogies, probably because they will outrage my 'Indian' brethren.

Posted by bigdhonifan on (October 17, 2013, 21:01 GMT)

@Lalith Wasantha Once upon a time when Aussies rejected to visit Sri Lanka what you thought. Think same now..

Posted by Ben2014 on (October 17, 2013, 20:51 GMT)

Privilegetheatre Chantimelle Grenada ....you could just try to get just one Board (WICB) to comply with your quest. You will get the answer and more.

Posted by bigdhonifan on (October 17, 2013, 20:45 GMT)

3 tests and 5 ODI... no t20 needed....

Posted by Ben2014 on (October 17, 2013, 20:06 GMT)

According to BCCI, they never told CSA whom to appoint. They told them that they have a problem with Lorgat (meaning whom "not to appoint"). I think that is fair enough. CSA may had felt that BCCI was trying to dictate terms so they went ahead and appointed Lorgat wth the input from one of their directors that the financial implication would be "minimal". In that sense, CSA has to live with the consequences. If they are not able to, in present circumstances it seems so, they have to go by what BCCI dictates. To me, the BCCI is being reasonable. Having said that, I would love to have this tour to happen.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 19:52 GMT)

Why the hell cant a stop be put to INDIA's plans??? Why do boards and ICC have to bow to INDIA.... INDIA now wants to tell South Africa who to appoints?? And CSA is likely to agree!!!! If every board d4ecides to cut ties with NCCI there is no way they can function internationally.... So what the various boards need to do is come together and sideline BCCI..... but it seems everyone is afraid to bell the cat!!

Posted by Harmony111 on (October 17, 2013, 19:40 GMT)

Suits Lorgat well. This man must have done something terrible to have put off BCCI permanently. What is worse is that this man did absolutely nothing to solve the current issue even though he loudly said he would walk the extra mile to get his relations with BCCI back on track. Thus, either he is a very poor administrator or is a very rigid person & non of these show him in good light.

It was very wrong of CSA to have announced the itinerary without consulting BCCI and it was doubly wrong of Lorgat not to have solved that problem. Don't forget that Lorgat did nothing for more than a month after he got the post. He walked no extra mile either. He met BCCI Secretary in an ICC meet in a "By-The-Way" manner in Dubai in mid Sep and failed to solve the issue even there.

CSA would be well advised to keep this man away from all future events for their own good.

Posted by maddy20 on (October 17, 2013, 19:29 GMT)

Both CSA and BCCI need a kick up their backside. CSA for taking things for granted and not resolving the crisis sooner(not to mention appointing a man who stepped on BCCI's toes way too many times) and BCCI for not letting bygones be bygones and moving on. There is a lesson to be learned here. Power had gone to the heads of both BCCI and Lorgat(some of his decisions when in power are to be blamed for this situation). I am just glad to know that the series is on!

Posted by samincolumbia on (October 17, 2013, 19:18 GMT)

Next time Haroon Lorgat announces an itinerary, he should have the decency to talk to the other board, rather than trying to play politics!

Posted by Cpt.Meanster on (October 17, 2013, 18:35 GMT)

@Selassie-I: You know what ? I am tired with comments like yours. The last time I checked, ODI and T20 cricket is played between teams of XI players each, with bats, balls, and padding equipment just like test cricket. The only difference is the duration and the colour of the clothing. ODI cricket is as REAL as test cricket my friend. Coming back to this series, this was badly handled by both boards IMO. But in the end, this could be a 2 test series with 3 ODIs and 1 T20. It's better than nothing. SA are a good team and India is an upcoming side with loads of talent. This will be awesome for fans from both countries. Hope the tour is on.

Posted by android_user on (October 17, 2013, 17:30 GMT)

Saf are playing 3 test abd 3 t20 against aus with no ODI yet there is no fuss while Ind board wanted same for Ind Saf series then CSA create all financial loss hoopla. Every board has a right to schedule a home series and I dont see any fault in India WI home series follow by Ind SA reasonable series.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 16:52 GMT)

Don`t understand why all this hatred msgs on BCCI. Just like politics, Cricket boards are also more of a business unit and the bigger company will always have the upper hand.It may also be clearly understood that BCCI has great respect for CSA and not intending to deal with someone who threw mud on them is quite natural and well justified. But I am sure BCCI will respect CSA and let the tour on tough it may be a curtailed one. And BCCI curtailing the tour of south Africa will no way obstruct the promotion of Cricket as most in this section alleges. Cricket is well rooted in the minds of all cricket lovers and when their team starts performing well the love will always be back.Finally I appreciate the fighting nature of Mr Srinivasan and coming out successful against all odds in spite of having an irresponsible son in law is remarkable.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 16:47 GMT)

This is just so wrong. Somebody get the BCCI a dose of humility. CSA is obviously bending backwards now because of the potential revenue loss, but there should be some sane head in BCCI to stop this nonsense. Does BCCI not remember how CSA supported them in the infamous Mike Denness case. This is no way to deal with friends. I cannot buy arguments from my fellow Indians that BCCI is justified in doing this because they are not happy dealing with Lorgat.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 15:51 GMT)

Amol Karhadkar ... the author of this article starts with --> "There appears to be headway into the discussions between Cricket South Africa and the BCCI" ..... then reports that : .... " condition that CSA chief executive Haroon Lorgat is not involved in India affairs in future"

I suppose that you can fool all the people all the time.... :-)

Posted by RAJA_06 on (October 17, 2013, 15:47 GMT)

The SA tour should have been of 3 tests at least followed by a tri-series with Ind., SA and Aus., the current ODI series with Aus., in India should have been replace with tri-series in SA, that would have made the match more interesting and proves the true talent and Sehwag should be replaced Sachin at No., 4 in Tests but still not sure whether Shikar Dhawan and other opener can be effective in Tests in SA.

Posted by ThatsJustCricket on (October 17, 2013, 15:46 GMT)

Bad on both counts. BCCI trys to tell CSA who to appoint where and CSA not backing their own appointed chief.

Posted by HDG1978 on (October 17, 2013, 15:17 GMT)

Dear Cricinfo. Why have my comments that are somewhat anti-Eng/Aus not been posted? Eng/Aus have treated India shabbily prior to India's 1983 WC triumph in England. We, Indian fans have not forgotten that treatment meted out to India and other sub-continent countries.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 15:02 GMT)

India is just playing role in cricketing world what USA plays for the whole world.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 14:56 GMT)

@Lalith Wasantha on (October 17, 2013, 6:45 GM):

Face realty my friend (however unfair they may be).

1. Many boards are not financially viable, if they cut of cricket relations with BCCI.

2. If the Boards refuse permission to their players to participate in IPL, there will be many more "Dilshans". Even younger Dilshans may follow suit.

I had explained in earlier posts (certainly more than once), the economics of global cricket; which unfortunately shifted the locus of power from the "old-time-veto-holders" to BCCI; which unfortunately (again) is controlled by people who seem to be intoxicated with power.

I am just trying to make a statement of fact; and not supporting or opposing any ones actions.(sorry Mr Wasantha and others who may be thinking on similar lines)

Posted by Selassie-I on (October 17, 2013, 14:42 GMT)

@ vaidy on (October 17, 2013, 10:13 GMT) - you mean when the MCC were in charge and they managed to spread cricket across the globe to countries like Inida, SL, Pak, WI, SA etc. and created what we know as International cricket today. Since India has been the 'powerhouse' of world cricket who have they helped bar themselves?

Lets look at the current aspiring nations, like Afghanistan, the netherlands, kenya and so on - who gives them help with coaching, structuring and development, the BCCI? no, it's still the MCC.

We all know that the ICC, due to it's construction, is ineffective but when the BCCI seems to use it's power only to self serve and not to help others, it is strange why people seem surprised at the rest of the worlds dislike of the BCCI. The only thing that I see the BCCI doing is helping SLC with endless streams of ODIs - which also make themselves huge sums of money! They even refuse to play Bangladesh away! They'd be a much more competitive team with BCCI's help.

Posted by Selassie-I on (October 17, 2013, 14:27 GMT)

We all want to see this series, now lets get on with it and stop fussing around with pointless 7 ODI series with Australia less than a year after the last ODI series and play some real cricket.

Also the BCCI need to stop bullying other boards, they have CSA by the short an curlies due to the potential money they would lose should the series be called off, now they're using it to make demands about another board's composition..?

Posted by HDG1978 on (October 17, 2013, 14:17 GMT)

@vaidy I agree with you. The TCCB and ACB dominated world cricket for a long time and treated Asian countries as second class citizens. Now that India has become the powerhouse and epicentre of the cricketing world, what the BCCI is doing may sound like bullying but is more like payback for me. SMG has always insisted on not giving much importance to English honours like the OBE, MBE or Sir and rightly so. England's rise in the Test rankings has caused a lot of heartburn in India and would like to see them go back to their 90s era, where they deserve to stay. India played a pivotal role in banning SA for following apartheid in the 60s and 70s and also in bringing them back to the Int'l fold on abolishing apartheid in the 90s. Though I do not support the BCCI's high-handedness and would love to see the back of Srini's team from BCCI affairs, the BCCI is repaying what Eng/Aus meted out to us earlier.

Posted by malepas on (October 17, 2013, 13:55 GMT)

There is a saying that "small mindedness" can be smelled through the riches and that's what reeking out of BCCI at the moment, Is there is any other word for being Bully and arrogant then I'm interested to know. People running BCCI like their personal business but its a state's institution and should be run by the proper professional ex cricketers who have played the game and know what is sportsmanship means and the primary job is to extend and promote the game and goodwill, and not hold the game ransom on personal differences. I can imagine what "goodwill" India will be getting from SA public from now on.

Posted by JustIPL on (October 17, 2013, 13:47 GMT)

This article seems to be more of a propaganda stint and reflects the indian stance. However, india are trying to show their might after the appointment of lorgat by imposing financial penalties but the fact is that lorgat was appointed despite all that reservations showed by BCCI. If aussies alter rankings then BCCI stance might soften further as if India not number one then their market will go down. It was unfair first of all on the part of BCCI to call CSA for talks and demand them to remove lorgat instead of talking about the series. As this article suggests SA are trying to adjust to BCCI demands but it does not seems to be the case as CSA have been silent after first meeting and will not give in to BCCI pressure at any costs. It is india who have to ensure full series in line with ftp and pay penalties if they deviate from that.

Posted by android_user on (October 17, 2013, 13:42 GMT)

Maybe Steyn and Philander are too strong for the Indian Batsman. Show some guts and play some Cricket and stop this Tom and Jerry Show and let cricket succeed.

Posted by atique.sa on (October 17, 2013, 13:39 GMT)

Poor decesion by CSA.how can a board insult their own chief?why would CSA apoint lorgat if he gona stay away from bcci affairs?it doesn't make any sense....

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 13:26 GMT)

Cricket could use the spice. Time to smash these demigods and send them back to the dustbowl.

Posted by AamanSomani on (October 17, 2013, 12:21 GMT)

I think that 3 test matches, 3 ODI's and a T20 is possible between 27 November to 19 january. Please i request the BCCI and the CSA to solve their problems for the cricket fans. I am daring to see the matches of India vs South Africa.

Posted by perl57 on (October 17, 2013, 12:20 GMT)

Well done BCCI. That should be the way to go. You do not create problems for BCCI and expect to go scott free. We Indians support BCCI though they do all bad things. Because they do three things correctly: 1) India is always ensured to be the leader in cricket 2) Fans in India always are entertained 3) Our heroes and demigods are always taken care of. No one else has done that in the world. This aint some democratic diplomacy to practice. Our players suffered for way too long at the hands of Oz, SA, Eng and other boards who does not evenknow how to run a show.

Posted by JustIPL on (October 17, 2013, 12:12 GMT)

Good ploy by CSA as they can now appoint special coordinator for india affairs or assign on of Lorgat's secretaries to deal with India. No other nations have anything against Lorgat and he can continue to deal with other affairs. Long leave means that he is still there just his assistants deal with it.

Posted by ladycricfan on (October 17, 2013, 11:44 GMT)

Lorgat v bcci feud started during wc2011. At the time Manohar was the president. Feud continued until lorgat stepped down as CEO. Now that the negotiations have started we expect a possitive outcome. SA team looks a bit rusty at the moment against Pakistan in UAE. But it will be a different scenario in their own backyard in South African bouncy pitches. Hope for a 3test series.

Posted by Crichetfan on (October 17, 2013, 11:36 GMT)

To all those accuse BCCI - Here is the business case . If A (BCCI) and B ( SA) are long time freinds and doing business for long time without any issues. Suddenly B is appointing some one who has done so many bad things to A in the past and would any one who is boss of A will not agree to this. There are 2 approach to this if iam the boss , either completely pulling down SA by without doing any major business with them OR say to them straight that A is not happy with so and so person heading your affaris and if so their business relations would suffer. Please touch your heart and say what one will do in this position. I can't forgive the decision of not allowing Eden garden to host India VS England World cup. Will that happen to Lords for that matter. If BCCI is generating more revenue to world cricket , there must be small considerations like giving some more time to complete the stadium re-construction. Who ever has got more money will dominate and that is order of the day...

Posted by brusselslion on (October 17, 2013, 11:24 GMT)

@vaidy: I'm confused. You state that "I do not approve of what the BCCI is doing.." but then go onto justify their actions on the basis that the TCCB & ACB acted in a similar manner when they held power! So, is the BCCI right or wrong in this matter?

On your other point: If England, Oz, NZ and SA played only each other, we would probably get bored by it after a while. However, the same could be said if India, SL, BD, Pakistan, WI & Zimbabwe played amongst themselves. Let's face it, in terms of international competition, India needs England, Oz, NZ and SA just as much as they need India.

Posted by Chak-De-India-Deux on (October 17, 2013, 11:04 GMT)

No excuse for BCCI's behavior but let's be realistic. Logan and CSA played a calculated risk and lost. They got taken in by Bindra and thought Sri was on his way out. I know really disappointing as an Indian fan. There should be three tests but will not happen at the expense of ODI's. The BCCI is following NFL's TV model to the T so let's not have unrealistic expectations. Let's hope for the best 3 Test, 3 ODI's and a couple of practice matches (even if 2 day affairs). Finally to SA fans please don't threaten IPL non-participation, not only will the SA players come to play in it but if the IPL cannot be held in India due to elections next year I am sure it will be held in SA. Let's all be practical. BTW the # 1 team is getting beat by #5 team.... need to be able to play in all conditions..... just saying.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 10:58 GMT)

@Lalith Wasantha on (October 17, 2013, 6:45 GMT)

Your entire comment shows you much idea of the matters you have. Like most SL fans, you have presented hatred opinion here nothing else. The BCCI, CSA & ICC are matured enough to solve this issue and they will do it. Since the matter is being in between SA & IND, it is not wise for you to put fire here on the forum as it is simply none of your business. So excuse us & them.

@Posted by ruester on (October 17, 2013, 8:53 GMT)

"90% of comments condemn the BCCI and its actions"

Who says????

Show some kind of modesty in your comments.

Posted by brusselslion on (October 17, 2013, 10:55 GMT)

Up until now, I thought that the BCCI was more 'sinned against' than 'sinner' in this unfortunate saga, however, this article makes me reconsider that view. Although there's nothing stopping the BCCI from asking that Mr. Lorgat be excluded from bi-lateral discussions between the boards, to make such a demand a condition for having further negotiations does come across as the act of a bully.

Posted by circ on (October 17, 2013, 10:48 GMT)

CSA do not bow to Indian autocrats, stand yourself and not allow India to control your office. CSA do not send your players to play IPL. Tell your players country is first and money after.

Posted by Indian_Rocky on (October 17, 2013, 10:35 GMT)

Oh Dear this happening from long time... I dont understand CSA stand, if the revenue is going down bcoz of Lorgat appointment y the hell they want him. Any business organisation knows this sort of basic funda. Lorgat was so lazy when BCCI announced the schedule of WI. He should have raised the concerns next day, but didnt! His interest towards BCCI & SAvsIND series/relationship is very poor! CSA still u keep him- Good admin :)

But when it comes to Cricket, than no one is bigger than the game !

Please CSA& BCCI announce the schedule for 3 test matches and 3 ODIS.. for the sake of cricket lovers.. even steyn is interested to bowl dhawan.

Posted by vish57 on (October 17, 2013, 10:29 GMT)

Lorgat and Srinivasan are two individuals whose personal clash is spoiling an excellant relationship between 2 countries. India has been a pillar of support to SA for their liberalisation from aparthid and since 1991 both boards work very well. Srinivasan will be at the helm for 1 year and Lorgat may be for 2 years. Shame to cricket lovers that 2 individuals ego clash has embarassed cricket and cricket fans of the 2 nations. Let both board chief read the autobiography of Nelson Mandela to gain wisdom

Posted by VinuKorattyPadnijareModi on (October 17, 2013, 10:13 GMT)

2 Test is just about rite, I think. Loogart should be sacked, not send on a long leave.

Posted by vaidy on (October 17, 2013, 10:13 GMT)

Father time is a great leveller. I do not approve of what the BCCI is doing, but I believe that the BCCI is doing exactly what Oz and England did in their heydays. The only differences are: 1. BCCI does it in a crude manner, 2. When Oz & England used to do it, there was no Cricinfo, Sharada Ugra and our esteemed commenters who could throw comments wily nily, no twitter, no ability to write comments on websites to make your exasperation known. What Oz and ENgland were doing was not good for world cricket as well - I can't remember people making such noise about them?

People argue that BCCI should somehow upstage all that by being more responsible because it has the power! Where were such arguments when Oz and England were being the big boys?!

At all times, there is always a bully boy who will take his bat and ball and go away when he is upset. Take USA in world politics. Every game has got a couple of world associations - well, why don't England, Oz, NZ and SA form their own league?

Posted by Sudhir65 on (October 17, 2013, 10:10 GMT)

CSA, don't give in to blackmail. Stand your ground.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 10:00 GMT)

If Lorgat is forced to take long leave, then the Indian cricket boss(es) should be forced to take long leave too.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 9:58 GMT)

Just like lots of other fans, I have also been waiting for the Ind-SA series...but if they are planning for just 2 Tests, then it's better it doesnt happen. I dont understand the purpose of putting in 3 ODIs. It's true that they want to garner revenue..but even if it's just Tests, I am sure there will be a keen sense of interest among the public after all this is a marquee series. Either make it a 3 Test series & cancel the ODIs or cancel the tour itself for the time being as India will be better off playing the Tri Nation with Sri Lanka & Pakistan that BCCI has planned as backup

Posted by sray23 on (October 17, 2013, 9:34 GMT)

@Rampal Singh, completely agree, 3 Tests plus no ODIs. BCCI simply has to do this. It has kept cricket fans needlessly waiting for too long and taken us for a ride. Let BCCI redeem itself even a little bit now!!

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 9:13 GMT)

1. There must be 3 test matches on the tour. two test is not enough. 2. if required cut the ODI 3. Include few practice match

Posted by Rebel_Who_Follows_All_The_Rules on (October 17, 2013, 9:09 GMT)

@ TheCricketeer: For ''one of the biggest fans of cricket in SA'' , you sure can't see the bigger picture can you?? It's much easier to make decisions when you know they won't have consequences.As stated many times before, should BCCI refuse to send the Indian team, it will have a crippling impact on the finances of CSA.Unless you propose CSA say to hell with the BCCI and it's revenues and instead try to survive on love, sunshine and fresh air??

Posted by Alexk400 on (October 17, 2013, 8:58 GMT)

if lorgat goes SA asks 4 tests. That way atleast they make money. That can be face saving. Atpresent they r not getting anything in return if it is 2-3 test.

Posted by ruester on (October 17, 2013, 8:53 GMT)

This is sickening. CSA show some backbone, tell the BCCI to stuff their tour and arrange another one with another nation. For the Indian fan, who loves this. I am so sorry that you feel this way, you may love India but you don't love cricket . Thousands of people read Cricinfo everyday, 90% of comments condemn the BCCI and its actions. Doesn't this Tell you something?

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 8:48 GMT)

I think The Tour should be organized for just 3 tests only... There should not be any ODI.... There already have been plenty of ODIs for India this year...

Posted by Harmony111 on (October 17, 2013, 8:39 GMT)

Wow if BCCI have this sort of opinion of Lorgat then he must have done something quite awful to irk BCCI. We all have already seen the kind of leadership Lorgat has shown as CSA head when he did absolutely nothing to resolves the SA tour issue with BCCI even though he had promised he would walk the extra mile. He did not even move an inch. If CSA are also ready to send Lorgat on long leave then it is clear that they too realize that Lorgat is a liability and does not have any great leadership skills. BCCI had already told CSA that they are not comfortable dealing with Lorgat and now it is a simple case of things happening as predicted.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 8:39 GMT)

Each one has his time...now it is the time of BCCI ......when england and australia had the power did they fail to exercise it? it is like when SA and AUS provide a deadly green pitch it is sportive and when in india the ball turns on the first day it is a bad pitch not suitable for cricket..there is no need to make a big fuss about this...

Posted by ste13 on (October 17, 2013, 8:32 GMT)

bullying? I would rather say kindergarden

Posted by Farce-Follower on (October 17, 2013, 8:24 GMT)

Why not ensure that Dale Steyn and Morkel also go on long leave and then India can win the Test Series. Also please ensure that all pace bowlers of WI go on long leave during the 200th Test, so that a certain gentleman can have a terrific send-off.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 7:35 GMT)

Since this sorry saga is going on for a long time, we will end up reading the same old comments, 'ad infinitum', 'ad nauseum'...sigh!

Posted by Cricinbest on (October 17, 2013, 6:57 GMT)

Does this BCCI think, that they are the gods of Cricket. I think now ICC stands for Indian Cricket Council, because nowadays everything happen according to the BCCI wish. The thing now is, money dictates over cricket. This incident is a good example to see how BCCI dictates terms on world Cricket. They want only their henchmen in other boards too, so they can do anything as they want. If there is someone who challenges them, they (BCCI) take every action to stop him. This is the thing what has happened here to Lorgat.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 6:52 GMT)

@QingdaoXI on (October 17, 2013, 6:01 GMT): You said:

"...so we need 44 days for the tour to go on....".

Unfortunately December has only 31 days! Even more unfortunately, we have only December for the SA tour. And, the most unfortunate part is that BCCI can not let down West Indies & New Zealand, at this stage.

Both cricket Boards came to BCCI's assistance while CSA was just sitting and waiting ... may be, for Bindra & Co's success.

As a cricket lover, I would like to see as many (at least THREE) tests, scheduled during December. The residual time alone should be explored for money making ODIs. (Of course, the need to cut losses is more for CSA. It seems, a TEST scheduled around the NEW YEAR also may bring in money to cut the losses, as the news story indicates)

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 6:45 GMT)

Love this!!! on Business affairs we're still in the mercy of Westerners, at least in Cricket, India is able to dictate to them...!!! Power of Billion people!!! Time to feel proud to be an Indian especially a Cricket lover!!! I really love this feeling!!!

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 6:45 GMT)

This is a very very bad situation for cricket. How could India allow such control over the activities of other full members of ICC? Why can't all the members stand up and say that they do not play with India anymore unless until BCCI agrees with the majority wish of any decisions taken by ICC? Also the members should not send any of their players for IPL as well. If this happens BCCI has to cancel IPL and when they do not play any international cricket, while the other countries play each other, their earnings become ZERO. Once this happens India will have to bow down to ICC.

Posted by venkatesh018 on (October 17, 2013, 6:44 GMT)

CSA have decided to sell Lorgat down the river, correctly or otherwise. But in return they should get a guarantee of atleast 3 Tests. Otherwise, this abject surrender is pointless.

Posted by cnksnk on (October 17, 2013, 6:44 GMT)

I dont know why Amol and Firdose keep getting information from un known and un named sources and quote it as news. Srini yesterday has said that neither he nor the BCCI want to or have tried to inferfere in other boards appointments. To date that is the only official comment on that subject from anyone from BccI or CSA. I find it hard to believe that BCCI or CSA will ask Lorgart to go on leave as it will be Bcci interfering in CSA AND CSA giving into this bullying. Optically not right. While I am rooting for 3 tests, jdeally 4 without odis, I find it strange for SA fans to talk aigainst BCcI. Remember last time SA came to India they played only 2 TESTS. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I wish BCCI and CSA have a press meet where they talk of all issues and clear the air rather than this kind of article without too much of basis.

Posted by TheCricketeer on (October 17, 2013, 6:40 GMT)

If CSA are willing to make this compromise then they do not deserve to be running cricket in South Africa.

I have said before and I will say again - coming from one of the biggest fans of cricket in SA who barely misses a ball on TV and goes to a lot of games around the country - I will not watch or care about a single ball bowled on this tour unless the .

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 6:29 GMT)

Well done BCCI !! .... Keep him out and lets play 3 tests ..

Posted by bijja on (October 17, 2013, 6:25 GMT)

Quite a bizarre precondition for a tour to take place!

Posted by QingdaoXI on (October 17, 2013, 6:01 GMT)

tour should contain three tests, three odis and one t-20. so ninteen playing days and with 2 three day matches it becames twenty five days and in between 20 days of rest is ok, so we need 44 days for the tour to go on.

Posted by Raveey_ on (October 17, 2013, 5:43 GMT)

2 tests and 3 odi's ? better play three tests only .. there is no point in playing two tests against SA.

Posted by   on (October 17, 2013, 5:24 GMT)

BCCI is bullying CSA. I consider it childish or childlike. BCCI is acting like a Don of a Mafia organization. Instead of CSA limiting Lorgat's role, why can't BCCI act with maturity and dignity? Why can't they let bygone be bygone's? What happened when Lorgat was ICC President is past history. But then it is asking too much from BCCI. BCCI never had the maturity and its leadership never had dignity.

Posted by android_user on (October 17, 2013, 5:24 GMT)

there id no clue what is wrong between bcci and logart which is going too far and very silly/childish. Hope common sense prevails, this is proffesional sports and business, why individual differences matter I dont hav a clue.

Posted by Marktc on (October 17, 2013, 5:19 GMT)

CSA should not settle for anything less than 3 tests if it compromises on Lorgat. If they do, then I will have lost a huge amount of respect for them. BCCI, are bully boys. Would be great to see how they would handle it if CSA refused to deal with one of their senior administrators.

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