West Indies v New Zealand, 3rd Test, Bridgetown, 5th day July 1, 2014

Only be satisfied with big tons, Ramdin urges West Indies

ESPNcricinfo staff
31

Denesh Ramdin has called for his team-mates to be less wasteful of their starts in Test cricket, after West Indies went down to New Zealand by 53 runs in Barbados, resulting in a 2-1 series defeat. The West Indies batsmen, Ramdin said, should learn to be satisfied only after they got "big hundreds" to their names.

"In the first innings, all our top six-seven batters got starts and nobody went on to make that big hundred. It is all in the mindset, the way we apply ourselves," Ramdin said. "If we are content with 50 or 60, we need to be bigger men and come out and fight and show what we are made of. We need to carry on from those 50s and 60s and only be satisfied with big hundreds - 160, 150 - to put the team in a commanding position.

"Test cricket is a lot of hard work and if you go out there and work hard you get the rewards for it. Hopefully this can be a stepping stone for some of the guys who did well. All the guys who didn't, it should be a wake-up call for them to do well in the future."

Ramdin singled out some of the younger players for praise, and said if the seniors could support them, it would spell more success for the team. "There were a lot of challenges along the way and a lot of positives as well. Young [Jermaine] Blackwood, Jason Holder, Kraigg Brathwaite, those guys coming in and getting runs for themselves... Hopefully they can go from strength to strength and the senior guys can pull their weight a bit more. That will augur well for the team."

Holder, on his debut Test, batting at No. 7, played out two hours on the final day in Barbados - seeing off a shot-ball barrage and attacking when it made sense - as West Indies battled to save the game. He scored his maiden Test fifty, before being bowled by offspinner Mark Craig after the ball hit a crack. Expectedly, he was disappointed not to see the team to safety. "My goal was just to take the team to the end, whether it was a win or a draw. I thought I played really well, but unfortunately got out at the last stage," Holder said. "After coming in, the situation of the game, I knew there was a lot of work to be done.

"Needed to build a partnership to start and to wear down the New Zealand bowlers as much as possible, frustrate them as much as possible. I came in with [the last recognised batsman] Darren Bravo there and we tried to build a partnership, unfortunately Darren got out."

Holder had also scored 38 in the first innings, and claimed match figures of 2 for 50 in 20 overs. Overall, he said, the Test gave him confidence that he could perform at the highest level. "I bring back that belief that I can score runs at this level. For me it was about making the adjustment from limited-overs cricket to Test cricket. I need to leave a lot more balls outside off stump, know where my off stump is, whereas, in the one day game, you tend to like to feel the ball on the bat.

"Bowling wise, it's about being patient, building pressure. On these flat wickets you can get wickets after building pressure. It's just my first game, looking to improve from hereon. It's a good start for me, but it's about being consistent."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • on July 5, 2014, 1:00 GMT

    LOLZ!! That will solve it! Thanks Ramdin... before that they all wanted less runs than were possible.... not! lolz.... semantics... just get better Ramdin, and learn how to set a field. You follow the play.. you need to predict it. You played NZ.. don't sweat it.. they're a better test team than you are. Get over it.

  • shemozzle on July 3, 2014, 23:58 GMT

    dwayne bravo would not cause imbalence to the team at all! he is an incredible player with an average of around 30 for bat and ball! i know that doesnt say much but we all know how gifted he is ! ive always found him to be a spark player ( lift when needed )! type of player! i know he hasnt played first class cricket in the west indies but i still think that would be a waste of time expecailly in that useless competition!! he has stated that he infact does want to play test cricket ! but we all know he is injured! im sure yous will all eat your words in the future when the man starts dominating test matchs in a half decent test team!! just a couple more changes to the team and lookout!! we might just be competetive again!! LEAVE RAMDIN CAPTAIN!!

  • on July 3, 2014, 1:29 GMT

    Mr Ramdin has to understand that he has to lead by example. He has to walk the talk like all good leaders.

  • essky on July 2, 2014, 23:32 GMT

    The big mistake was playing the two spinners when neither are world class. Shillingford can't bowl the only ball that makes him worth anything as a bowler.

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 18:49 GMT

    @SirViv I agree with you about Bravo. An allrounder is a player who is a specialist in one area and quite good in another. Dwayne Bravo would be termed a batting allrounder if and only if his average was up near 40 or above with the bat. Until he commits time to FC cricket and shows batting form in this format, he should not be in the Test team. He would only cause imbalance like the bits and pieces player that Sammy was. And that goes the same for any other player posing as an allrounder. Excel in your specialism first. Bowlers cannot be picked solely because they can hold a bat at times. Holder needs to bowl and take wickets. I am sure he will get there as the talent is there.

  • aclarity on July 2, 2014, 18:23 GMT

    Holder's performance was creditable as a 5th bowler. At an average of 126kph and limited stamina he is not ready for prime time. He will only get the returns of Sammy. Is this our goal? Matthew would have performed better with the ball and create more pressure. Narine was a WICB and Pybus disaster. Bonner would have raised the fielding effort, add to the batting and provide a little leg spin relief. Gayle and Chanders should give strong consideration to retirement so our fielding could improve. And those who call for the return of Dwayne Bravo seem to want our batting to diminish without any change in our bowling effort. Could you imagine a WI side with Bravo and Holder as our backup bowlers?

  • SirViv1973 on July 2, 2014, 15:11 GMT

    @Edward Wayne John, I don't think Dwayne Bravo has played a test for about 5 years and I don't think he is all that interested in playing the longer format. Even if he does end up playing test cricket again his previous record does not inspire confidence. His ave with a bat is barely above 30 & I wouldn't say he is anymore suited to batting at 6 than Ramdin. His bowling too has not been particularly effective with an ave close to 40. It's a shame really because with his talent he should have achieved have achieved

  • on July 2, 2014, 13:12 GMT

    Easier said than done, Mr. Ramdin given WI current team composition with a number of players who perform only for themselves, including yourself. I will echo what most West Indians feel and say, i.e. invest in a young team and hope for a gradual revival down the road. Anything else and you are blowing in the wind.

  • SirViv1973 on July 2, 2014, 11:33 GMT

    @PaddyRasta1, I'm not sure if you understood what I was trying to say. I totally agree with you that Ramdin should NOT be batting at 6 it's at least 1 place too high for him. I also agree that the most balanced attack (providing you have 4 quality bowlers) is 3 seam & 1 spin. However pitches in the carribean more often than not nowadays take spin so WI feel that they have to play 2 spinners. The problem is that if they play 2 spin & 2 seam, the attack looks short of a seamer. They don't have a Kallis type all rounder who can bowl & bat in the mid order, so the problem would be best solved by producing quicker pitches. This would negate the WI need to play a 2nd spinner and allow a more balanced line up of 6 batsman, keeper, 3 seam & 1 spin to be selected. With Taylor back, Gabriel & Holder both looking promising & Roach to lead, WI seam attack looks better than it has for a while so it would be to the teams advantage to produce some quicker surfaces

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 11:11 GMT

    @cricketdebator There is a major flaw in your argument. Who would the youth be? The cupboard is bare of players who show consistency at first class level. How many e.g average 40 or above? Not many, so you are getting rid of the backbone and looking to replace with players that lack consistency anyway. Blackwood being dropped was definitely a mistake but you will just be exposing players not ready for Test level by the wholesale changes you propose. They need experience to mentor them.

  • on July 5, 2014, 1:00 GMT

    LOLZ!! That will solve it! Thanks Ramdin... before that they all wanted less runs than were possible.... not! lolz.... semantics... just get better Ramdin, and learn how to set a field. You follow the play.. you need to predict it. You played NZ.. don't sweat it.. they're a better test team than you are. Get over it.

  • shemozzle on July 3, 2014, 23:58 GMT

    dwayne bravo would not cause imbalence to the team at all! he is an incredible player with an average of around 30 for bat and ball! i know that doesnt say much but we all know how gifted he is ! ive always found him to be a spark player ( lift when needed )! type of player! i know he hasnt played first class cricket in the west indies but i still think that would be a waste of time expecailly in that useless competition!! he has stated that he infact does want to play test cricket ! but we all know he is injured! im sure yous will all eat your words in the future when the man starts dominating test matchs in a half decent test team!! just a couple more changes to the team and lookout!! we might just be competetive again!! LEAVE RAMDIN CAPTAIN!!

  • on July 3, 2014, 1:29 GMT

    Mr Ramdin has to understand that he has to lead by example. He has to walk the talk like all good leaders.

  • essky on July 2, 2014, 23:32 GMT

    The big mistake was playing the two spinners when neither are world class. Shillingford can't bowl the only ball that makes him worth anything as a bowler.

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 18:49 GMT

    @SirViv I agree with you about Bravo. An allrounder is a player who is a specialist in one area and quite good in another. Dwayne Bravo would be termed a batting allrounder if and only if his average was up near 40 or above with the bat. Until he commits time to FC cricket and shows batting form in this format, he should not be in the Test team. He would only cause imbalance like the bits and pieces player that Sammy was. And that goes the same for any other player posing as an allrounder. Excel in your specialism first. Bowlers cannot be picked solely because they can hold a bat at times. Holder needs to bowl and take wickets. I am sure he will get there as the talent is there.

  • aclarity on July 2, 2014, 18:23 GMT

    Holder's performance was creditable as a 5th bowler. At an average of 126kph and limited stamina he is not ready for prime time. He will only get the returns of Sammy. Is this our goal? Matthew would have performed better with the ball and create more pressure. Narine was a WICB and Pybus disaster. Bonner would have raised the fielding effort, add to the batting and provide a little leg spin relief. Gayle and Chanders should give strong consideration to retirement so our fielding could improve. And those who call for the return of Dwayne Bravo seem to want our batting to diminish without any change in our bowling effort. Could you imagine a WI side with Bravo and Holder as our backup bowlers?

  • SirViv1973 on July 2, 2014, 15:11 GMT

    @Edward Wayne John, I don't think Dwayne Bravo has played a test for about 5 years and I don't think he is all that interested in playing the longer format. Even if he does end up playing test cricket again his previous record does not inspire confidence. His ave with a bat is barely above 30 & I wouldn't say he is anymore suited to batting at 6 than Ramdin. His bowling too has not been particularly effective with an ave close to 40. It's a shame really because with his talent he should have achieved have achieved

  • on July 2, 2014, 13:12 GMT

    Easier said than done, Mr. Ramdin given WI current team composition with a number of players who perform only for themselves, including yourself. I will echo what most West Indians feel and say, i.e. invest in a young team and hope for a gradual revival down the road. Anything else and you are blowing in the wind.

  • SirViv1973 on July 2, 2014, 11:33 GMT

    @PaddyRasta1, I'm not sure if you understood what I was trying to say. I totally agree with you that Ramdin should NOT be batting at 6 it's at least 1 place too high for him. I also agree that the most balanced attack (providing you have 4 quality bowlers) is 3 seam & 1 spin. However pitches in the carribean more often than not nowadays take spin so WI feel that they have to play 2 spinners. The problem is that if they play 2 spin & 2 seam, the attack looks short of a seamer. They don't have a Kallis type all rounder who can bowl & bat in the mid order, so the problem would be best solved by producing quicker pitches. This would negate the WI need to play a 2nd spinner and allow a more balanced line up of 6 batsman, keeper, 3 seam & 1 spin to be selected. With Taylor back, Gabriel & Holder both looking promising & Roach to lead, WI seam attack looks better than it has for a while so it would be to the teams advantage to produce some quicker surfaces

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 11:11 GMT

    @cricketdebator There is a major flaw in your argument. Who would the youth be? The cupboard is bare of players who show consistency at first class level. How many e.g average 40 or above? Not many, so you are getting rid of the backbone and looking to replace with players that lack consistency anyway. Blackwood being dropped was definitely a mistake but you will just be exposing players not ready for Test level by the wholesale changes you propose. They need experience to mentor them.

  • on July 2, 2014, 10:45 GMT

    Going forward WI should be playing older bravo @ 6 along with 4 specialist bowlers .

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 9:15 GMT

    What is really needed for all first choice and second choice batsmen for the Test team, is to spend a full season playing FC cricket in England. The season is long and with the travel, they play more cricket than they ever would in the WI and they will build mental and physical fitness being outside their comfort zone.The former greats need to beg, steal, borrow a favour from former clubs to get these batsmen trained in the long FC season. Batting should be the first priority but bowlers would also benefit from a long FC season. The mental toughness and stamina to grind out an innings is not being developed in WI domestic matches and this is unlikely to change in the near future. Something has to be done now.

  • on July 2, 2014, 9:01 GMT

    4 bowlers 6 batsman and a Ramdin This may well define Windies success in future

  • muzika_tchaikovskogo on July 2, 2014, 8:42 GMT

    The biggest mistake the West Indians did was in playing 5 bowlers, leaving the batting undermanned with just 5 batsmen plus Ramdin who never looked like getting a big score. As they discovered, 5 bowlers seldom do a much better job than 4.

  • PaddyRasta2 on July 2, 2014, 8:00 GMT

    @SirViv1973 Ramdin is not a Test match no 6. Did you not realise that there was only five specialist batsmen picked? Ramdin should be batting at 7 to guide the tail. No successful Test team plays 5 specialist bowlers in Tests period. I hope the selectors realise this mistake and move on from this. The selectors caused imbalance with their playing Shillingford who made no difference to the outcome. He is a bowler first and did not perform in his role and all that happened was Holder was bowled less.Sammy being in the team always caused imbalance because batting at eight he was a specialist bowler and the bowling attack always lacked teeth because of this. The only issue is whether the captaincy is too much for Ramdin as keeper to perform otherwise there is no reason for imbalance in the team.

  • anver777 on July 2, 2014, 5:39 GMT

    True WI batsmen didn't convert those 50s & 60s in to big ones... Ramdin's own form was also a poor one, along with ever reliable Shiv who failed miserably in NZ series !! I guess in T20's, NZ team is firm favorites to clinch the series too !!!

  • cricketdebator on July 2, 2014, 5:12 GMT

    @ Ranpath & CricketChat....thank you guys for echoing what I have been saying for a very long time. The only way forward for WI cricket is a total investment of the youth. It makes absolutely no sense to continue with players like Gayle and Chanderpaul, and their continued presence is made even more painful by the fact that they are neither winning or saving matches for the team. Bottom line...pick a squad of our best players (under 25) and more than likely in a couple of years time WI cricket would be better place. In the just concluded series, Holder and Brathwaite demonstrated that the younger players are quite capable, and certainly no worse than the so - called star players

  • ranpath on July 1, 2014, 23:03 GMT

    Yet still the skipper, with 4 wkts down, came out to bat and started attacking basically from ball one When he joined Bravo, the younger man had 28 or so. In quick time Ramdin raced to that score and passed Bravo. irresponsible batting when his first priority should have been preserving wickets instead of chasing the target !!!! Wi way forward ???? get rid of ALL the older players, invest in youngsters (18-23)> Sure their lack of experience may result in defeats at first but given time they can be moulded into a more competent side.

  • riverbaby11 on July 1, 2014, 22:19 GMT

    Advice for Ramdin - try getting 50 runs at least once in a series

  • Sexysteven on July 1, 2014, 21:24 GMT

    Yea the windies have some good bowlers roach Taylor holder but if they get injured there's not much coming through though narine benn shillingford decent spinners ramdins batting is improving but the main worry is the batting shivs past his best gayle is in his twilight years take those two out the batting is paper thin braithwaite looks good Edwards not convinced with him Darren bravo talented but he needs to deliver more cos he will be the main batsman soon and dwayne bravo will fill a whole at six so plenty of work for the selectors to ponder to get the best mix and best side they can manage

  • CricketChat on July 1, 2014, 21:19 GMT

    Friendly advice to new captain on the block, Ramdin. Please get rid of non-performing seniors. Gayle, Chanderpaul had had their time. Demand WICB to invest in youth and in a couple of years, you can find hungry, hard working youngsters with a lot to look for future will make WI a top tier team again.

  • on July 1, 2014, 21:16 GMT

    West Indies selectors selected 5 bowlers in the team. New Zealand won the toss and chose to bat first. Really. They could have won this game in three days if they had bowled first. five bowlers......... We need new selectors. Another thing is that they finally gave Blackwood a chance. He did well and was dropped!!!! What is new.

  • on July 1, 2014, 20:47 GMT

    If only Gayle, Braithwaite, Edwards, Bravo & Chanders and Ramdin had scored ten more runs each, we could won this match. Bravo needs to bat more responsible. Shillingford should not have played in this match. Blackwood should have been selected. Ramdin should have bowled Holder with a three slips gully and forward short leg to attack from in front. WINDIES would have had to chase less runs.

  • SirViv1973 on July 1, 2014, 19:52 GMT

    Despite the retirement of Sammy the balance of the team, particularly when playing at home continues to be a problem. Although Ramdin's consistency with the bat has improved over the past few years he is no one's idea of a test match no6. If WI go with 5 bowlers they are a batsman short if they go with 4 bowlers then more often than not they are a bowler short. Unless pitches more conducive to seam bowling can be produced (this would allow WI to go with 3 seam & 1 spin) or a seam bowling allrounder can be found who can bat 6 & ave mid to high 30s then the balance of the team will continue to be an issue.

  • kip1 on July 1, 2014, 18:58 GMT

    I fully understand what Ramdin is saying but for someone who had "big talk" for Sir Viv, he himself needs to step up to with the batting.

    Darren bravo needs to step up, Chris Gayle needs to bat lower down the order or he can just retire, and now Chanderpaul got some help from the other batsmen in this series he failed but i hope it is just a one off for him.

    If batsmen fail consistently they should be dropped and try someone that has been performing in the domestic competition and we should stop picking person on name and pick them on performance.

  • 22many on July 1, 2014, 18:48 GMT

    Taking chances like the catch that went between himself and first slip and the missed stumping early in Williamsons innings might be worth Ramdin's attention as well....cant miss those against a guy like Williamson...might well have cost WI the test and series.

  • on July 1, 2014, 18:23 GMT

    Chris Gayle:

    Ramdin's criticism of the top order is spot on.

    I have always thought that Chris Gayle, in particular, would be vastly more productive with the bat if he bats lower in the order, say at 4.

    His batting technique, as any observer would notice, is fundamentally flawed, with the batting perilously angling toward the slip cordon. Of course, he is not alone. Several other W.I. batsmen have the same problem.

    In my estimation, it is a huge gamble to send him in at the number one or two spot when the ball is new. Moreover, he, and others, needs to learn to switch from T20 to Test mode and show patience at the crease, for the good of the team. Test cricket is about patience and attrition.

    Ramdin's criticism, therefore, is well justified. The top order, with so much talent, have to adopt a more deliberate approach to batsmanship and to occupation of the crease or the Windies will continue, ad infinitum, to collapse like a pack of cheap dominoes and wasting good opportunities.

  • on July 1, 2014, 17:35 GMT

    holder, roach, Taylor and bravo could very well be the 4 quicks attack on south Africa's lively wickets. that being said one wonders how the top order will succeed, especially the no. 3 & 4. think England 2011.

  • cricuscrazy on July 1, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    If Holder could increase his bowling speed a little bit,he could prove to be a useful player for WI.Ramdin seems to have the right atitude.He is trying to motivate his team in the right manner.

  • on July 1, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    Darren bravo's tendency to drive anything with width is eerily similar to Stuart Williams, and we all know how Williams career ended up.

  • on July 1, 2014, 16:45 GMT

    with holder's technique he should be the no.3 instead of Kirk Edwards.

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  • on July 1, 2014, 16:45 GMT

    with holder's technique he should be the no.3 instead of Kirk Edwards.

  • on July 1, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    Darren bravo's tendency to drive anything with width is eerily similar to Stuart Williams, and we all know how Williams career ended up.

  • cricuscrazy on July 1, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    If Holder could increase his bowling speed a little bit,he could prove to be a useful player for WI.Ramdin seems to have the right atitude.He is trying to motivate his team in the right manner.

  • on July 1, 2014, 17:35 GMT

    holder, roach, Taylor and bravo could very well be the 4 quicks attack on south Africa's lively wickets. that being said one wonders how the top order will succeed, especially the no. 3 & 4. think England 2011.

  • on July 1, 2014, 18:23 GMT

    Chris Gayle:

    Ramdin's criticism of the top order is spot on.

    I have always thought that Chris Gayle, in particular, would be vastly more productive with the bat if he bats lower in the order, say at 4.

    His batting technique, as any observer would notice, is fundamentally flawed, with the batting perilously angling toward the slip cordon. Of course, he is not alone. Several other W.I. batsmen have the same problem.

    In my estimation, it is a huge gamble to send him in at the number one or two spot when the ball is new. Moreover, he, and others, needs to learn to switch from T20 to Test mode and show patience at the crease, for the good of the team. Test cricket is about patience and attrition.

    Ramdin's criticism, therefore, is well justified. The top order, with so much talent, have to adopt a more deliberate approach to batsmanship and to occupation of the crease or the Windies will continue, ad infinitum, to collapse like a pack of cheap dominoes and wasting good opportunities.

  • 22many on July 1, 2014, 18:48 GMT

    Taking chances like the catch that went between himself and first slip and the missed stumping early in Williamsons innings might be worth Ramdin's attention as well....cant miss those against a guy like Williamson...might well have cost WI the test and series.

  • kip1 on July 1, 2014, 18:58 GMT

    I fully understand what Ramdin is saying but for someone who had "big talk" for Sir Viv, he himself needs to step up to with the batting.

    Darren bravo needs to step up, Chris Gayle needs to bat lower down the order or he can just retire, and now Chanderpaul got some help from the other batsmen in this series he failed but i hope it is just a one off for him.

    If batsmen fail consistently they should be dropped and try someone that has been performing in the domestic competition and we should stop picking person on name and pick them on performance.

  • SirViv1973 on July 1, 2014, 19:52 GMT

    Despite the retirement of Sammy the balance of the team, particularly when playing at home continues to be a problem. Although Ramdin's consistency with the bat has improved over the past few years he is no one's idea of a test match no6. If WI go with 5 bowlers they are a batsman short if they go with 4 bowlers then more often than not they are a bowler short. Unless pitches more conducive to seam bowling can be produced (this would allow WI to go with 3 seam & 1 spin) or a seam bowling allrounder can be found who can bat 6 & ave mid to high 30s then the balance of the team will continue to be an issue.

  • on July 1, 2014, 20:47 GMT

    If only Gayle, Braithwaite, Edwards, Bravo & Chanders and Ramdin had scored ten more runs each, we could won this match. Bravo needs to bat more responsible. Shillingford should not have played in this match. Blackwood should have been selected. Ramdin should have bowled Holder with a three slips gully and forward short leg to attack from in front. WINDIES would have had to chase less runs.

  • on July 1, 2014, 21:16 GMT

    West Indies selectors selected 5 bowlers in the team. New Zealand won the toss and chose to bat first. Really. They could have won this game in three days if they had bowled first. five bowlers......... We need new selectors. Another thing is that they finally gave Blackwood a chance. He did well and was dropped!!!! What is new.