India in England 2014 August 10, 2014

Wet Sunday mocks Indian capitulation

It rained all day in Manchester on what would have been the fourth day of the fourth Test, had India not thrown away their wickets on Saturday
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India's players better not have withdrawn the curtains in their hotel rooms on Sunday. For they will have seen rain that began early in the morning and refused to relent through the day. It did stop around 2pm, only to resume after a brief sunny spell. It wasn't the lashing apocalyptic rain that you associate with hurricanes, but persistent and steady downpour with cold breeze. When it finally seemed to have stopped by 4pm, down it came 20 minutes later, and stayed on and off since then.

On the second day of the Test, it had rained for much less time. It began to fall at around 2pm, and it was enough to wash out the rest of the day's play. Given the drainage problems the ground encountered after that sharp shower, it is highly unlikely there would have been any play on Sunday. There is an option of adding an extra hour at the end of the day's play, but for that play needs to start by 6pm.

This, of course, would have been the fourth day of the fourth Test. A Test on the third day of which India lost nine wickets in under one session. Had they batted more doggedly - everybody knew the forecast for day four - they could have kept the game alive. A whole day is lost, England get a little impatient, Stuart Broad is injured, and you never know what is liable to happen. There is more rain forecast for Monday. With the amount of rain Old Trafford has taken, who knows, even the fifth day might not have begun on time.

In an ideal world the coach Duncan Fletcher would drag the players by their coattails and take them to Old Trafford and show them what might have been. That would be too uncool, though. This team, we are told, is too cool for a rocket. Processes are important, not results. They can't afford to be seen as desperate. They live for the moment, they say; not the future, not the past. Test cricket is different. You have to plan ahead, and think of all sorts of permutations and combinations.

Virat Kohli nearly holed out to long leg sweeping Moeen Ali before he eventually fell to a meek push outside off. Ajinkya Rahane drove hard at Moeen and offered a simple return catch. MS Dhoni stepped out and was caught at midwicket. Bhuvneshwar Kumar ran himself out. This was not a team that was giving the outside chance an outside chance. Dhoni later said something to effect of, what is the difference how many days it takes you to lose; a loss is a loss.

When asked if any instructions were sent out to the batsmen keeping in mind the forecast, Dhoni said: "We are talking about a set of batsmen well experienced, not necessarily in Test cricket, but they have been part of the side enough to know what has to be done in each situation. We also tell them to break each session into small sessions of half an hour, and set small targets for them to achieve. That helps you to achieve what you want to, and as you said, bat 60 overs.

"If you look at it, 60 overs is a big target, and what you need to do is to break into four or five overs and set a target to achieve. That's the kind of spell bowlers go with - five or six overs. If you want to look at the positive, then all the batsmen have passed the tough passage when two bowlers were bowling well and then they have got out. Most of them have scored 20 to 30 runs before getting out. So the most important part is to convert those starts into big scores."

Make what you will of this.

This is similar to the time in Australia in 2011-12, when with one match to go in the triangular ODI series India had an outside chance of making it to the final. Journalists knew it, fans knew it, commentators knew it, but despite carrying a plethora of support staff, the Indian team didn't know it. Dhoni was informed of that outside chance at a press conference.

Maybe the lack of desperation, of fighting until you have been beaten officially, is a cultural issue. Even before Dhoni arrived, India showed similar lack of awareness in the West Indies in 2002, incidentally the last time India played five Tests in a series. There too, India had taken a 1-0 lead, squandered it, but on the final day of the series, Zaheer Khan slogged wildly, became the last man out and handed away the series to West Indies. Even before Zaheer reached the dressing room, it began to pour - as was expected. The presentation had to be held indoors, and it rained for two more days.

This is not to say India would have drawn this Test, but this is not about the end result, although chances of drawing this had India not lost on Saturday were greater than getting wickets by asking Ravindra Jadeja to bowl darts into the pads with a 7-2 leg-side field. This is about the process through which this defeat arrived. India should know, they care more for it than the results.

Sidharth Monga is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • on August 14, 2014, 8:26 GMT

    Things india need to change for 5th test: 1)We need 4 proper bowlers.4 pacers-Bhuvi,Aaron,Shami,ishwar/ishant.1 spinner-Ashwin.He scores above 40 in all matches.Right now we are playing 3 pacers.Pankaj can't pick a wicket.Hence only 2 bowlers are left to take 20 wickets. 2)So,batsmen are Vijay,pujara,Rahane,Kohli,Rohit/naman.If Rohit plays,he gets practice before odi's.If naman and Ishwar are played,we atleast get to test them. 3)Majority of catches are falling short.Bring the slips and short legs closer.Dhoni must dive for catches. 4)Don't poke at balls outside off. 5)Bowlers better bowl some yorkers to remove the tail. After this series 1)People wanting binny are idiots.Drop Stuart Binny from team forever and roger Binny from selection panel.He is wasting 1 space and his father will always pick him.We don't need 120kmph trundlers. 2)Pick Varun,Umesh and bhuvi as 3 pacers for australia series.Shami/Ishant/Ishwar could be 4th bowler. 3)pick Jadeja/Ashwin as batsmen who can bowl

  • on August 13, 2014, 5:34 GMT

    Hoping for another big lose...

  • tcarlos on August 13, 2014, 5:24 GMT

    indian cricket is a hype as their spectators at the moment... u should have a good domestic set to perform and look at india.. Can cash cow ipl deliver good cricketers. sorry fellas. dont create hype crics like kohli and ashwin... do they deliver? only at the start. but they had a good bunch earlier. look at azharuddin, sidhu and even before srikkanth and all.

  • on August 12, 2014, 19:55 GMT

    Best chance for India - Gambhir, Vijay, Ashwin, Pujara / Sharma, Rahane, Ojha, Dhoni, Bhuvi, Ishant, Pankaj, Varun. Kohli - miserably out of form needs a break, there's not much to choose between Pujara & Sharma (based on performance this series). Pankaj might have nothing to write home about in terms of wickets so far, but that's due to Jadeja's incompetence. Jadeja should therefore make way for Ishant. Bhuvi & Ashwin have outscored the batsmen, so 1 batsman less will not matter too much. Bhuvi, Ishant, Pankaj & Varun means Dhoni will have at least 1 fresh quick to turn to almost all day, also with Ashwin available as a 5th regular bowler, these guys can afford to go flat out, Between Ashwin, Ojha & Dhoni they will have 2 decent slip catchers for support.

  • on August 12, 2014, 13:38 GMT

    Sunday's rain wouldn't have made much of a difference. Instead of losing on 3rd day, they might have lost on the 5th day. Yes, they could have managed to get some more batting practice, though. Either way, whatever performance we saw from India in this particular test was pathetic

  • on August 12, 2014, 12:27 GMT

    For heaven's sake don't criticize this young Indian team so much. They have done so well for a rookie team, a majority of whose members are touring England for a test series for the first time. They were in a position of strength in the first test and won the second. Remember, what happened not so long ago in 2011 with experienced veterans, Sehwag, RD, SRT, VVS, Gambhir, Zaheer.etc. Except for RD no one else could do anything. At least these boys have done much much better than them, and that too without half of the top order contributing!!!

  • HiyerNHiyer on August 12, 2014, 10:16 GMT

    @Lalithkuruwitha find your comment on "India should be happy that Pak lost" ridiculous. Only blokesl with Crab Mentalities would think like that and think that reflects in your thought process. You definitely are NOT an INDIAN..

    My view, this team is a better Limited overs team than a Test team as Ganguly aptly put it. Yes there is a need for a shakeup. I think India could have done better through some common sense cricket and application which seems to be lacking.

    I wonder what the Coach and Support staff are doing. But yes basic mistakes still persist. Dhoni needs to reflect on his Test captaincy

  • LALITHKURUWITA on August 12, 2014, 9:06 GMT

    India should be happy as Paks lost in the parallel match.

  • baghels.a on August 12, 2014, 8:47 GMT

    Too many Indian fans are blaming these defeats on some structural and systemic deficiencies and blaming IPL,overdose of 50 cricket, as i had commented earlier people with inherent biases and agendas are bringing IPL and 50 overs into it , then how do you explain the Lord's win ?? encouraging performances in SA and NZ ?? India has been losing in overseas conditions long before IPL came in.I saw similar discourse when Australia was beaten by England last summer , Aussie posters were saying IPL,BBL,too much 50 overs cricket has destroyed the technique of young Aussie batters and Shield cricket was being undermined but i guess after Aus thrashed Eng 5-0 in the latest Ashes all that has changed.Playing Country cricket might help medium pacers build stamina like Zaheer Khan and spinners to be patient but it does not help or transform a batsman,out of all English players only Sam Robson plays regularly at County level and he looks the worst English player out there in terms of technique.

  • on August 12, 2014, 8:41 GMT

    A weather update from (near) Old Trafford. I reckon they would have lost all Sunday to rain. There might have been some play on Monday morning, but most of the rest would have been lost to showers. India could (and probably should) have drawn this test with a better second innings batting performance.

  • on August 14, 2014, 8:26 GMT

    Things india need to change for 5th test: 1)We need 4 proper bowlers.4 pacers-Bhuvi,Aaron,Shami,ishwar/ishant.1 spinner-Ashwin.He scores above 40 in all matches.Right now we are playing 3 pacers.Pankaj can't pick a wicket.Hence only 2 bowlers are left to take 20 wickets. 2)So,batsmen are Vijay,pujara,Rahane,Kohli,Rohit/naman.If Rohit plays,he gets practice before odi's.If naman and Ishwar are played,we atleast get to test them. 3)Majority of catches are falling short.Bring the slips and short legs closer.Dhoni must dive for catches. 4)Don't poke at balls outside off. 5)Bowlers better bowl some yorkers to remove the tail. After this series 1)People wanting binny are idiots.Drop Stuart Binny from team forever and roger Binny from selection panel.He is wasting 1 space and his father will always pick him.We don't need 120kmph trundlers. 2)Pick Varun,Umesh and bhuvi as 3 pacers for australia series.Shami/Ishant/Ishwar could be 4th bowler. 3)pick Jadeja/Ashwin as batsmen who can bowl

  • on August 13, 2014, 5:34 GMT

    Hoping for another big lose...

  • tcarlos on August 13, 2014, 5:24 GMT

    indian cricket is a hype as their spectators at the moment... u should have a good domestic set to perform and look at india.. Can cash cow ipl deliver good cricketers. sorry fellas. dont create hype crics like kohli and ashwin... do they deliver? only at the start. but they had a good bunch earlier. look at azharuddin, sidhu and even before srikkanth and all.

  • on August 12, 2014, 19:55 GMT

    Best chance for India - Gambhir, Vijay, Ashwin, Pujara / Sharma, Rahane, Ojha, Dhoni, Bhuvi, Ishant, Pankaj, Varun. Kohli - miserably out of form needs a break, there's not much to choose between Pujara & Sharma (based on performance this series). Pankaj might have nothing to write home about in terms of wickets so far, but that's due to Jadeja's incompetence. Jadeja should therefore make way for Ishant. Bhuvi & Ashwin have outscored the batsmen, so 1 batsman less will not matter too much. Bhuvi, Ishant, Pankaj & Varun means Dhoni will have at least 1 fresh quick to turn to almost all day, also with Ashwin available as a 5th regular bowler, these guys can afford to go flat out, Between Ashwin, Ojha & Dhoni they will have 2 decent slip catchers for support.

  • on August 12, 2014, 13:38 GMT

    Sunday's rain wouldn't have made much of a difference. Instead of losing on 3rd day, they might have lost on the 5th day. Yes, they could have managed to get some more batting practice, though. Either way, whatever performance we saw from India in this particular test was pathetic

  • on August 12, 2014, 12:27 GMT

    For heaven's sake don't criticize this young Indian team so much. They have done so well for a rookie team, a majority of whose members are touring England for a test series for the first time. They were in a position of strength in the first test and won the second. Remember, what happened not so long ago in 2011 with experienced veterans, Sehwag, RD, SRT, VVS, Gambhir, Zaheer.etc. Except for RD no one else could do anything. At least these boys have done much much better than them, and that too without half of the top order contributing!!!

  • HiyerNHiyer on August 12, 2014, 10:16 GMT

    @Lalithkuruwitha find your comment on "India should be happy that Pak lost" ridiculous. Only blokesl with Crab Mentalities would think like that and think that reflects in your thought process. You definitely are NOT an INDIAN..

    My view, this team is a better Limited overs team than a Test team as Ganguly aptly put it. Yes there is a need for a shakeup. I think India could have done better through some common sense cricket and application which seems to be lacking.

    I wonder what the Coach and Support staff are doing. But yes basic mistakes still persist. Dhoni needs to reflect on his Test captaincy

  • LALITHKURUWITA on August 12, 2014, 9:06 GMT

    India should be happy as Paks lost in the parallel match.

  • baghels.a on August 12, 2014, 8:47 GMT

    Too many Indian fans are blaming these defeats on some structural and systemic deficiencies and blaming IPL,overdose of 50 cricket, as i had commented earlier people with inherent biases and agendas are bringing IPL and 50 overs into it , then how do you explain the Lord's win ?? encouraging performances in SA and NZ ?? India has been losing in overseas conditions long before IPL came in.I saw similar discourse when Australia was beaten by England last summer , Aussie posters were saying IPL,BBL,too much 50 overs cricket has destroyed the technique of young Aussie batters and Shield cricket was being undermined but i guess after Aus thrashed Eng 5-0 in the latest Ashes all that has changed.Playing Country cricket might help medium pacers build stamina like Zaheer Khan and spinners to be patient but it does not help or transform a batsman,out of all English players only Sam Robson plays regularly at County level and he looks the worst English player out there in terms of technique.

  • on August 12, 2014, 8:41 GMT

    A weather update from (near) Old Trafford. I reckon they would have lost all Sunday to rain. There might have been some play on Monday morning, but most of the rest would have been lost to showers. India could (and probably should) have drawn this test with a better second innings batting performance.

  • karthik_ig on August 12, 2014, 8:21 GMT

    What duncan fletcher is doing as a coach here? Dont he advice the team to bat defensively till saturday as the forecast was rain on sunday..Is he for strategy or developing batting skills? It seems he is not doing any of the above..we dont need any technician to teach the batting skills at the international level..Players and coaches common sense could have got out of embarrasing situation in old trafford..India playing defensive when attacking is needed and viceversa..Need of the hour for india is sensible coach..probably an indian with sharp cricketing mind, excellent communication to communicate with players in our language and good strategist..May be Dravid, Sourav or Sunny..If its a foreigner someone like warne, Fleming,Moody..

  • cricfansince91 on August 12, 2014, 8:05 GMT

    @Johan Kotze: I am in Indian and I agree that our domestic cricket does not provide venues which are consistently bouncy or swinging but it does not mean that playing County cricket will confirm your success!!! We have had Gavaskar, Dravid, Tendulkar who did not encounter fast bowling but were fantastic players similarly England had Michael Vaughn who would have hardly played any spinners in county circuit yet was extremely good against them!!! On the flip side you have Robson who must have played county cricket a lot and yet is failing. The success in all conditions is determined by working hard on technique, having a sound temperament, determination to do well in all conditions and a bit of Luck.

  • ut4me87 on August 12, 2014, 7:41 GMT

    We should now look beyond the series. For the last test, Kohli is in not in form and a rest will do him good as it happened to him in WI. For this series, please exprient with Naman Ojha as a batsman and he can not do any worse than Kohli. After the series is over, Coach Fletcher should go and Dhoni should not remain a test wicket keeper in the next TEST series.

  • on August 12, 2014, 6:14 GMT

    I think India will reverse their fortune as England bowling is vulnerable without Broad. With Anderson not 100% fit, India may repeat Lords again. Too optimistic eh ?? :). But for that Kohli should be dropped to 5 or 6 down with Ashwin and Rohit pushed up the order and Jadeja getting dropped. He can play the old ball well. He is not good at playing a swinging and bouncing ball. He can also negate Moeen Ali with ease.

    My formation would be Gambhir, Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Ashwin, Kohli, Rohit, Dhoni, Bhuvi, Ishant, Varun, Go with 3 pace and 2 allrounder spinners (with Rohit included) and get England bounced out with Ishant and Varun. If required break few noses on the way. Get it back 2-2 and people will forget what happened in the 3rd and 4th matches and will start praising this Indian team again.

    @cricinfo : please post this. You have ignored my last 2 posts yesterday and today :).

  • on August 12, 2014, 4:14 GMT

    Hi Cricinfo could you kindly tell us whether both sunday and monday were lost due to rain at machester or was it only the saturday lost. I am asking this question because there had been intense discussion at cricinfo on the impact of rain on the outcome of the 4th test at manchester and since the test got finished early we do not know what other outcomes were possible if india somehow hung in there with few wickets and did not get all out on the 3rd day of the 4th test. For example if both 4th day and 5th days were washed out then draw could have been possible, on the otherhand if play was possible on the 5th day then both draw or england wins could have been possible. Cricinfo could you please write a brief article on the 4th + 5th day of the 4th test? even if an article of two to three sentences is fine but it will help us. Through online we can only check the manchester weather but not the weather for the cricket stadium area itself.Thanks!

  • YesSirYesSirThreebagsfull on August 12, 2014, 4:11 GMT

    @Johan Kotze - There is no such need. County cricket is fail system. Compare with Indian domestic cricket. All the world want to play in India domestic. And How many World cup England has won? zero. India have won 3. Now Which domestic cricket is better?

  • YesSirYesSirThreebagsfull on August 12, 2014, 4:10 GMT

    Team India played attacking cricket on third day. If they defended people would sayiing India playing for draw. IT was good attack cricket by team India.

  • saravanan34 on August 12, 2014, 3:55 GMT

    I think now it's time to change batting order of Indian cricket team. I like to see ashwin opening with vijay. I see vvs laxman style in ashwin, he looks good against short pitch deliveries. He might become a handy batsman in future for Indian test team. Now he is number 1 allrounder in test rankings. Let former tamilnadu opening batsman to open for india and see what he can do.

  • ashimehta on August 12, 2014, 3:29 GMT

    I read few comments saying Indian team need coaching from the legends Rahul and Laxman.....But I don't think so, coaching can bring the horses to water but can't make them drink the water. Its lack of application and as I mentioned earlier "mental block". Someone should help improving on this. If we really want services of Rahul and Laxman it has to be as batsmen..if possible, request for a recall them as batsmen in the team. This will be an automatic coaching and slap to our so called young talent....

  • CurrentPresident on August 12, 2014, 1:36 GMT

    One big mistake Dhoni is making is with respect to Jadeja. He is turning him into an ineffective dart bowler instead of letting him flourish with loop, spin and traditional spin bowling. Jadeja is capable of much more.

    Even in batting, he is asking Jadeja to be extra attacking and give the bowlers the charge. That is not his natural style. He is capable of longer, more sedate innings.

    On both counts, Dhoni's directions are hurting Jadeja - who is dutifully carrying out his captain's instructions. Given his mental strength and hardworking attitude, Jadeja is capable of much much more (even captain India one day). Just let him be.

  • jmcilhinney on August 12, 2014, 0:07 GMT

    @notimeforcricket on (August 11, 2014, 5:52 GMT), there's also Faf's famous innings to draw a Test in Australia and then SA won the next game.

  • myStraightTalk on August 11, 2014, 17:46 GMT

    Why Dhoni is still the captain of test team after he got many changes he still have very very poor record. Does the merit system works in india?

  • on August 11, 2014, 16:37 GMT

    Indian fans should understand that you have to play a number of seasons in county cricket to cope with English pitches. Even SA batsmen found it hard in tests there and the team was more often than not saved by the bowlers and Amla. Australia also had a few batting collapses the last time around! So if India is serious about winning in England they should allow their batsmen to play more county cricket.

  • whirlaway on August 11, 2014, 15:33 GMT

    Real IPL-like approach in India's second innings. From the fall of the second wicket at 53 to 161 all out, it was 108 runs for 9 in 22 overs. Makes it look like a typical IPL debacle. Had some of the same ingredients too - getting c&b trying to force the pace, getting caught in the infield while trying to clear the fielder, and getting run out while trying to steal a second run!

    The one question now is - Is India trying to get 2 rest days again on August 18 and 19? ;-)

  • ishaan1997 on August 11, 2014, 15:29 GMT

    I have a gut feeling, that dhoni might resign as test captain after this test series-maybe,

  • jaykannan on August 11, 2014, 15:20 GMT

    i want to make one change fayas mohamed bring in rohit for kholi. Promote rahne to no3

  • analyseabhishek on August 11, 2014, 15:04 GMT

    Despite being Dhoni's fan in general, I believe his time as the test captain is up- I don't care who is made captain after him. Along with him, the coach Duncan Fletcher also must go. Perhaps NOW is the right time to try Greg Chappell once more. He'd have a new young team who will be likelier to listen to him than a bunch of aging superstars full of ego. Perhaps our players are but a reflection of ourselves, the way we are collectively. Perhaps they are not- but a group of men idolized by so many and bestowed so many riches- must, absolutely MUST strive for a higher standard.

  • _-Will-_ on August 11, 2014, 14:53 GMT

    Continued...

    I say that results at The Oval are irrelevant because very strong recent historical evidence indicates this team is being mismanaged. I don't think even a victory next match should excuse what has already happened. It would be a self administered whitewashing of some ugly truths.

    Dhoni is not singularly to blame. But he, along with Fletcher, Penney and Dawes, are responsible variously for the following: justifiable playing XI selection, tactics and strategy including diligent tactical responses to match situations, batting bowling & fielding fundamentals, team morale, a setting benchmark for attitude and performance that aligns with the goal of team success and adequately reflects the privilege of representing one's country in test cricket.

    None of the above accountables, which I assume would be in each gentleman's respective job descriptions, have been delivered satisfactorily.

    Will we treat the symptoms or the cause?

    The ball, as always, is in the BCCI's court...

  • PMadhavarao on August 11, 2014, 14:47 GMT

    Aderson has found Kohli's weakness. Indian batsmen including Kohli sould be more attacking to the outside off line instead of pushing / defening. This will upset bowlers's lenths. Also bring in Samson

  • on August 11, 2014, 14:42 GMT

    The members in this team other than kohli, pujara, ashwin, rahane, aaron and B. kumar do not have a stomach for a fight. Please retain these guys and throw out the others and form a new team from scratch containing players who actually care to win games. This team is a joke. It has a business as usual attitude to everything which is wrong and uninspiring to us fans.

  • _-Will-_ on August 11, 2014, 14:09 GMT

    Whenever this team manages to build pressure it is relieved long before it becomes potent. Once lost it is never regained. Winnable matches become draws, draws become too inconvenient to fight for and losses seem to bother no one. This is a recurring theme, evidenced in all performances since the SA tour.

    Lords was an exception. But whatever confidence or momentum might have been gained there was sinfully abandoned by our own captain as of session two, day one at the Ageas.

    This is not the way to lead.

    Whatever young talent in there is being shown a dangerous example.This does not excuse the behaviour of 10 other men, but I wonder what the mid-long term effects of such irresponsible tutelage might be.

    The deeper systemic changes needed in Indian cricket are well-documented in these threads and elsewhere and would take years to implement if ever they are.

    But in the meantime someone has to answer. Results at The Oval are irrelevant to a more urgent issue.

    To be continued...

  • supercoolfan on August 11, 2014, 13:52 GMT

    The team has blemished the fighting spirit of India as a whole. BCCI should consider the future of Duncan Fletcher as a coach. The team is NOT a team. It is a group of players playing without any plans and foresight.

  • harekare on August 11, 2014, 13:46 GMT

    May be a distinct lack in intelligency..from players to selectors.

  • Nampally on August 11, 2014, 13:25 GMT

    There are lot of things wrong with the Indian Test Cricket team. Starting at the top, Dhoni is the wrong Captain for a 5 day test match. Unless a New Captain takes over nothing will change & the string of overseas defeats continue. In this regard 3 names that pop up are Tiwary, Pujara & Ashwin + Rohit Sharma if he can make the XI. Sadly Tiwary is constantly neglected by the Indian establishment partly because of his problems with injuries. He has captained Bengal for a while now & is a technically sound bat. Pujara is another guy who got a raw deal. Ashwin has played lot of cricket & only recently Dhoni preferred his friend, Sir Jadeja, to Ashwin. Second change is to include as many batsmen with correct footwok in the list of batsmen. Batsmen with Hand eye coordination can be reserved for ODI's & T20. Thirdly India must train/develop 5 regular opening bats & 5 regular pace bowlers+ 4 spinners in each of leg spin, off spin & LH spin category. From this pool emerges a qualified Test XI.

  • on August 11, 2014, 13:23 GMT

    1- Rohit - Middle Order Batsman forced to Opening - Rahane - Opener forced to Middle Order

    2 - Ashwin,Binny - Perfect Allrounders - Never recognized for Bat and Ball in Test - Jadeja - Never good with bat or ball but forced All Rounder

    3 - Kohli,Rohit - Can fail Million Times ,Drop billion catches - Rayudu,Samson - Cant get chance to fail too

    Viru like Agressor Dhawan is preferred over Viru himself ! .. When will Dhoni find time to realize all these partialities

  • CricketChat on August 11, 2014, 13:11 GMT

    With Jadeja, B Kumar batting like true tailenders that they are, there will be no late order revivals. Outside India, Aswhin should be selected as a middle order batsman than a bowler from on. That means, the top order needs to carry the batting. Though I don't like it, it may not be a bad idea to recall recent retirees in Sachin, Dravid and Shewag (as good as retired with no realistic chance of comeback in normal course) for the final test. Together, they will score more runs than useless Gambhir, Pujara and over-hyped Kohli.

  • on August 11, 2014, 13:06 GMT

    Past is past! We still got possibilities to level the series!

    Try this please: 1.M.Vijay 2.N.Ojha 3.C.Pujara 4.V.Kohli 5.A.Rahane 6.M.S.Dhoni 7.R.Ashwin 8.M.Shammi 9.B.Kumar 10.I.Sharma 11.V.Aroan

    No need of any special all rounder. Go with 6 genuine Batsman & 5 Bowlers

  • kingcobra85 on August 11, 2014, 12:49 GMT

    Just because he cant put bat to ball Ojha is not a better spinner than Ashwin. He travelled to England in 2011 and played worse than Ashwin. He even averages lesser than Ashwin in tests that both of them have played together. In overseas condition the role of spinner is to contain in the first innings and break partnerships in second its your faster men who should take wickets. India should be thanking their lucky stars that it has a all rounder in Ashwin and possibly a future captain

  • on August 11, 2014, 12:49 GMT

    The longer we have Dhoni at the helm , the more will be India's humiliation overseas . Dhoni has to perform consistently as a batsman and stop supporting nonperforming players . Barring a handful of players , the whole team has underperformed . Imagine the plight of India without batting perfomance of the bowlers . It appears that the only target India had was to win atleast one test in England And nothing more .

  • on August 11, 2014, 12:41 GMT

    India's latest Test defeat by an innings against England inside of 3 days is one of the worst that has happened to the current World Cup and Champions Trophy holders. After being T20 World Champions in 2007 and the World's number one Test playing nation a couple of years ago, India has only one way to go - downhill all the way!! Indians have always been consistently inconsistent and the results are there to prove that. And on top of that India is still to beat Australia and South Africa in a Test series on their soil. May be a combination of our Under-19 , India "A" and current experienced players could be groomed for the future even though the results are not going to be any different for sometime to come. Good-luck India until you reach the top again and stay there for sometime.

  • on August 11, 2014, 12:25 GMT

    The problem Indian batsmen and bowlers are facing today is their lack of discipline. Bowlers cannot find the line and length in various pitches and batsmen don't show patience. Every bowler gives at least a hit me ball in a couple of overs.Even if opposition doesn't scores much runs in a session it is not because of bowlers discipline but more of opposition strategy. And the less said about Indian batsmen the best. History tells that batsmen who are not played at least a couple of season in County very rarely succeeds in English condition. Please stop the excess T20 cricket to save test cricket in India.

  • vsroc on August 11, 2014, 12:22 GMT

    Posted by Venkat Sraman on (August 11,2014). It is true that Team India would have saved the fourth test match with a creditable draw,had they batted well in the second innings on third day afternoon.Knowing well in advance,that rain will play its part on the fourth and fifth day of the test match,our boys ought to have played in a positive manner by offering maximum resistance to the English bowlers.This would have taken a different course of direction to the result of the test match.Our boys have to develop their mental approach to exhibit their endurance to last long in the middle for which necessary skills to be built by proper training.

  • Paul_Somerset on August 11, 2014, 12:21 GMT

    Never mind the rain and the draw. If India had ground down England's depleted attack long enough just to emulate England's first-innings total of 367, then England would have been left with a nasty chase of 153 batting last against two spinners.

    This surely was the target when Dhoni picked two spinners and chose to bat first. Saturday's surrender was not just an example of players not caring whether they drew or lost; these men were not even interested in a potential victory.

  • kahvas on August 11, 2014, 12:15 GMT

    Since we've been losing overseas test series since dont know when, here's what needs to be done:

    1. Fire Duncan Fletcher. He's useless as a coach, was useless when he played. Someone like Rahul Dravid, VVS etc should be the coach. Coach should be able to help improve technique and command respect from players. 2. Fire Dhoni as Test Captain. Dhoni makes astonishing mistakes like winning the toss and batting first on a green pitch in overcast conditions. Even an 8 year old would have bowled. The match was lost in the toss just like boycott said. 3. Fire Jadeja/Ashwin etc from overseas cricket. They're finger spinners not made for England. 4. Get Sehwag in, Gambir can bat down the order when the ball doesnt move as much. He's a good player of spin. 5. Drop Pujara after this series. This will send a message that worshipping era is over, like what indian's did for tendulkar. Kohli should also be bringing some water sometimes, no one is bigger than the country and the game.

  • on August 11, 2014, 12:10 GMT

    I do not think it is wise to keep forecasting for rain even though it rained on Sunday. But what about today, the 5th day? The problem of India team started with the Lords test win. There was too much adulation and praise bestowed on the team by specially former cricketers, and indeed from even the commentary box that in my view caused this tragedy. What should have been done was to remind Indian team that three more tests are there and English are bound to come back hard on India. But one thing that is not possible to explain is that Ali has already taken around 15 wickets, but Indian spinners almost nothing. Is this the end of the much vaunted spin attack of India who can only be threat at home?

  • spinkingKK on August 11, 2014, 11:33 GMT

    All the great Indian players normally bats well in their first couple of series and most of them then fails innumerable times and the selectors will keep faith in them because they know they will deliver. Sure they will. Team losing was irrelevant. We will have superstars, who excels once in a blue moon, will be created. This is quite normal. Indian team is about individual name and fame. What is good for the team is never a priority. Give chances to the failing and aging superstars until it's too late or until they perform to extend their career further. That is Indian selectors' motto. I hope everybody knows a guy called Ricky Ponting. When he retired, he was super fit, had excellent reflexes and could easily score another double or triple century on his day. However, he was forced to retire because if he didn't, he would have got dropped by the Australian selectors who can't have a guy, the best ever he may be, keep on failing in the middle order. I call that THE SELECTION.

  • stuckwithcricket on August 11, 2014, 11:22 GMT

    Rejecting DRS so far by BCCI is an absolute No-brainer.

    Agreed the umpire makes mistakes and this probably evens out in the end but by rejecting technology is like guessing that more luck will sway our way than the opposition and that bad decisions by umpires will have more negative effect on the opposition compared to us.

    If the whole world did not have access to DRS and replays it would have made no difference but all are watching and majority are impressed by this tech and the BCCI is ridiculed after every abhorrent decision by the umpires which could have been reversed. I am sure once India embraces this further improvements will also come with time.

  • spinkingKK on August 11, 2014, 11:20 GMT

    It's only normal services have resumed for India. So, batsmen like Kohli, Pujara, Rehane, Vijay, Dhawan don't have to worry too much. This is how India always played. All the Azharudins, Vengsarkars, Shastris, Dravids, Gangulys, Manjrekars have all gone through this. Once or twice in a while they perform overseas and that will be considered as legendary. When I look back, 6 wickets for less than 30 is not an aberration. It is the norm for India. It happened right from the time of Kapildev until now. India had the best team from around 2003 to 2007. All the members of the team during that phase were very much expereinced and had seen failures after failures so that they were expected to be a roll over and because of that they were able to perform well against the odds. I can't believe Ganguly criticizing Jadeja for slogging Anderson. That shot was well controlled. Ganguly used to slog like a tail ender. Dravid's batting in 1999 Australian tour was just pathetic. (to be continued)

  • anver777 on August 11, 2014, 11:06 GMT

    As mentioned here Dhoni & co (including the officials & support staff) should have well aware of playing conditions of full 5 days of a test match.... captain & officials should have discussed the situation in team meetings..... they are professional cricketers playing for country, so its their responsibility ???? after all they all have been well paid for that (NATIONAL DUTY)

  • Nandu_Athadu on August 11, 2014, 11:05 GMT

    Absolutely gutted by Indian team performance. The only silver lining is that the test completed in 3 days avoiding heart-break on sunday which is a festival day..All the batsmen lacked application, determination. Looks like there were in a hurry to completed the match albeit on loosing side..Make some changes to final test which we will eventually loose.. Bring Ojha for Gambhir, Binny for Jedeja..Ishanth for Pankaj (if Ishanth is fit or Ishwar in for Pankaj).. Ashwin has to improve his bowling in tests, it is his batting which is ensuring place in playing 11..Dhoni has to understand that to win TEST you need complete players not bits n pieces players..we have Ojha/Mishra who are better spinners than Ashwin but they are not assured while batting which Dhoni dont like..Bowlers aim to bowl well and if they can bat it is plus. Dhoni ..pls understand this.. your team selection in away test is lot to ponder with and it is bizzare. All d best team India.

  • njr1330 on August 11, 2014, 10:51 GMT

    As an England & Lancashire fan, I should be 'buzzing' after Saturday ... but I'm not. There was a tinge of sadness at the way India just faded away. There was no fight, there was no pride, there was nothing. My 13-year old son shook his head, and said [with no trace of humour] 'I could have bowled them out'. This was not Lords in reverse; at Lords, England were shocked by a wayward genius who suddenly decided it was his day. India were beaten by a couple of trundlers [Woakes & Jordan] and a spinner who doesn't turn it. Broad was in hospital, and Jimmy A was in the bathroom being sick! One is left with the uncomfortable feeling, that the BCCI REALLY doesn't care what happens in this series. Very, very sad.

  • rkannancrown on August 11, 2014, 10:25 GMT

    Dhoni's keeping has always been suspect but he is a better batsman than many in this team. Why does he not play as a pure batsman & hand the gloves to somebody else ? The only problem with such a scenario is that it would undermine the likelihood of Jadeja or Rohit Sharma, Dhoni's perenial favourites, to play for India. The Indian teams in the past always had players who would fight till the last ball. Players like Madanlal, Kirmani, Robin Singh, Anil Kumble etc made their name not because they were the most talented but because they would not give up. In this team, nobody can be held up as such an example. Dhoni himself personified the devil may care approach by trying to needlessly attack Moeen Ali when he & Ashwin were capable of batting through the day.

  • cricfansince91 on August 11, 2014, 10:20 GMT

    It is shocking to see the way Indian team capitulates these days,earlier at least one (if not two) guy would put some sort of fight.. it is evident that the Indian side has settled in its comfort zone and just do not want to come out of that. they are happy to win home tests against WI and play in meaningless IPL games. earlier when IND lost under Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble there was at least a semblance of fight and we all knew that effort was not lacking which cannot be said for this team. Strong steps are need of hour starting with ouster of Captain MSD, Coach Fletcher & his squad and dropping Jadeja, Rohit with Kohli & Pujara being asked to go back to Domestic circuit & iron out their flaws. Please dont be distracted with World Cup next year because that India is any which ways not going to defend under this regime. Just weed out the uninspiring leader & Coach along with guys who are casual, lackadisical & let others find their own feet

  • Selfishkar on August 11, 2014, 10:10 GMT

    @Ninad Dixit: Sachin, Dravid, Harbajan, Laxman and Co were part of the team that lost 0-4 in 2011, current team at-least won at Lord and drew first test.

  • Selfishkar on August 11, 2014, 10:02 GMT

    Dhoni is the only captain who beat Aussies 4-0 in the past 50 years. While even Tendulkar could not save India from 0-4 an d0-4 white wash in Eng and Aus.

  • ravis123 on August 11, 2014, 10:01 GMT

    Selecting 7 batters will be poor thinking, rather have 5 SPECIALIST BATSMEN, one genuine w/keeper and 5 good bowlers - no point having bits and pieces guys like Jadeja - Stuart Binny is a better bet - he atleast whacked 78 runs in one test...It is time for selectors to think if Dhoni is really required, as he is not cut out for Test matches and as a W/keeper and Captain he has been a disaster...Time to blood Kohli in as Captain - lets allow him to learn the ropes, even if his batting is failing him... Saurav is close by, to offer him as many tips as he wants. Shankar

  • Worldcricketlover on August 11, 2014, 10:00 GMT

    @ravis123. I like to mention here that Rahul dravid is not batting coach . Just at the start of series he has been asked to talk with younger player for some time. That is all. He has not been asked to have any advice afterwards. No remuneration was offered . We all aware that HOW msd is adamant not to involve any former player to have them for longer duration neither as coach or player. So please think again before making any allegation on Legend of Indian cricket

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:48 GMT

    Time to pull finger India. You're on the cusp of losing 5 overseas series in a row - including one to New Zealand. Pakistan and Sri Lanka compete infinity better overseas than you do.

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:46 GMT

    @Ramli I wouldn't say that England raised their standards, I would say India lowered theirs, in every department.. Batting, bowling, fielding, team selection, for that matter squad selection.. We have at the helm a captain who does not have the technique to survive test cricket, a captain who thinks of a draw from the 2nd session on Day1, a captain who averages less than some of our bowlers while batting overseas, and a captain who gives a really long rope to underperformers.. Jadeja is at best IPL material, he's not even worthy of a spot in the squad.. Ashwin is busy confusing everyone, rightly said in the article, when he's supposed to pick wkts he's scoring runs.. On a pitch where moeen ali picked 4wkts, our 'specialist' spinners couldnt even manage 1.. We have Pragyan Ojjha who is a PROPER left arm spinner dropped for Jadeja, a BITS n PIECES cricketer.. Umesh Yadav sitting home wen Ishant, Iswar & Pankaj Singh got selected.. They deserved to lose..

  • vishalthakkar22 on August 11, 2014, 9:38 GMT

    focus on process is good but what use is the process if that delivers embarassing results? need to question what process is being followed. i would love to see some players earmarked only for tests. pay them well and rest them well and have them focus mentally on tests. a Dravid or a Kallis playing T20 did not impact them as they have great technique and mental game. the young ones like Pujara should be kept away and asked what they would like to focus on. if our bowlers cant play 5 tests, how do you expect them to play tests, ODIs, t20, ranji, challenger and yes, the IPL, CLT20 etc??? have you ever seen a good long distance runner run 100m sprints?? are we missing something? BCCI please wake up..the indian fan is endangered and Mr. Srinivasan wants to pull crowds to venues!

  • ravis123 on August 11, 2014, 9:37 GMT

    Rahul Dravid as the BATTING COACH has stuck his neck out and his position is in jeopardy, as all the front line guys have failed to perform. How much of responsibility can be attributed to him, Mr Monga? After all, he is one of the few who has done consistently well in England and not having passed on tips to the youngsters, can be attributed as his failing. Further, none in the team seems to have the time to play County cricket, as all of them make tons of money thro' commercials, IPL and other businesses. One some times doubts if this team plays for the country's pride or for self appeasement... Raman

  • dink76 on August 11, 2014, 9:31 GMT

    As an Indian fan,i feel highly embarrassed and ashamed and let down. One of comments was absolutely spot on - Lord's victory was handed to Indians due to Inept thinking by the English players but since than Indians have been obliterated by an very average English side, to a point we're making Moeen Ali look like a world class spinner!!

    1.Need a clear out by starting with Duncan Fletcher and having some tough no nonsense Aussie or South African in charge, tough if he ruffles some feather.

    2. Mr Dhoni whilst has been a great captain for one day/T20 but his record as Test Captain needs now accountability and again need someone in charge in mould of Ganguly or Harabjan, Kohli springs to mind and again if he ruffles few feathers than so be it.

    3. Mentioned last time Indians got a drubbing, though too late now but some of the players should have been sent to play English county cricket and funded by BCCI after IPL

    Guys, you have one test left, make Indians feel proud again !!!

  • CricStaah on August 11, 2014, 9:29 GMT

    India are only a world beating nation in their own country when the pitches dont bounce move swing or spin where the boundries are so small that fans can throw stuff at each other from one stand to the the oposite side India's win at Lords was not convincing. Just a pathetic display of batting from Eng. The 1st test was a completely dead pitch 3rd and 4th test India have been completely turned over! Players like Kholi have proved that they are unable to bat abroad. For once the India bowlers have looked good even in the batting department! I think in the next test Dhoni shud reverse the order! I am sure they would score more runs!

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:22 GMT

    Time to call back the legends Sachin & Dravid

  • SagirParkar on August 11, 2014, 9:20 GMT

    I agree with NutCutlet here.. and just like him, i am a cricket lover first and then an Indian.. although Australia is my favoured team.. but that is beside the point..

    A few of my friends and I have been talking about similar issues - lack of pride, lack of remorse at losing, IPL matters more, the BCCI's dogged resistance to DRS and their lack of foresight about the future of the national team, and many more such issues.

  • Samdanh on August 11, 2014, 9:20 GMT

    Indian team, its management, unfortunately driven by blind support from its media, were focusing on action on Anderson instead of its own preparedness and attention to the fourth Test. Even in Cricinfo there was bragging about how India had responded on the pitch when they were let down by ICC discipline process in the past. All that has come to naught. Period. How can one say, in the absence of evidence from both sides that one is holier than the other? Given the circumstances, the judgement is fair, though both Jadeja and Anderson could have at least been fined equally for causing this turbulence. Finally India faltered to doom in this Test than England thumping India. This holds good especially with India's performance in the 2nd innings despite absence of Broad, Anderson's illness, and other bowlers (excepting Moeen) being no better than club class. India have to turn up at the Oval and play cricket to their potential

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:19 GMT

    This is what happens when the mind gets tuned into instant gratification mode. Quick results is what it gets used to. It takes skill, effort and patience to become a test player. Requires a lot of grit and determination. Preparation is also critical. The mind has to be conditioned in that way. I Might be taking it a bit too far but I am sure somewhere the IPL has played a role to create mindsets which the players are grappling with and therefore struggling to make their skills count in the test format. A little bit of soul searching and reconditioning of the mind is required.

  • ashimehta on August 11, 2014, 9:19 GMT

    This is absolutely mental block whenever we(Indian) play abroad. I can bet, had it been even Bangladesh they would have given better fight. It's not that we (Indian fans) always crib. But we are pushed to wall which make us crib. I think more than a technical expert or consultant we need a psychologist who should train Indian team to handle cricket under unfavorable conditions. In my view we Indians are very emotional and the biggest example is Sachin Tendulkar struggling making his 100th Century. This was only because 100th century emotions were more into mind than his techniques. Nerves Ninety records are also because of the same reasons.... We need to be mentally strong...U see even English team was going through even the worse patch but they still found a team to beat i.e. India. If they(eng) play now with any other test playing nation under the same conditions they will certainly struggle....

  • Santyment on August 11, 2014, 9:18 GMT

    Whats wrong in playing Pandey..???? Why for 3 series he is avoided...can anyone answer??

  • AFanOfGoodCricket on August 11, 2014, 9:15 GMT

    The biggest problem is the selection policy. The selectors are supposed to watch Ranji matches the year round and pick the best Ranji players into the test team. Instead they do their selection based on IPL performance and the team ends up with bits and pieces players like Jadeja and Ashwin. Jadeja especially seems to have no cricketing brains. However this also Tells you about the quality of domestic cricket in India considering that Jadeja has scored a few triple centuries in domestic cricket.

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:07 GMT

    Tbh,england have a very good bowling attack,Anderson. Broad when bowling well, can get the best struggling, Ind selected wrong team,IMO should play 6 bat+ dhoni +4 bowlers(ohaja or leggie +bhuvi+pandey or mohit sharma+Aron),rahane+ samson.kholi+pujara +ROHIT +ashwin( yes he a decent bat, needs to flight more )our batters

  • crx on August 11, 2014, 9:06 GMT

    The point is do they really want to win tests...does it really matter to them..I don't think so...I follow these tests just for players like Pujara (unfortunately he is going through a rough patch) who really wants to do well in test matches...others are playing just for the sake of playing and wait for IPL to arrive (and above all is our captain)...pathetic..

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:06 GMT

    The longer we have Dhoni at the helm , the more will be India's humiliation overseas . Dhoni has to perform consistently as a batsman and stop supporting nonperforming players . Barring a handful of players , the whole team has underperformed . Imagine the plight of India without batting perfomance of the bowlers . It appears that the only target India had was to win atleast one test in England And nothing more .

  • on August 11, 2014, 9:00 GMT

    Just like Pujara's drop of Cook in in the slips India changed the series.. this time round as well Cook's drop by Jadeja in the slips in the 3rd test has changed the complexion of the series.. I m afraid its heading the same direction.. India seemed to have put all their energy in getting Anderson banned.. hardly ever seen a team look so dispirited in the next match right after winning a great test..

  • CricketMaan on August 11, 2014, 8:56 GMT

    So if Dhoni quits, who will captain India in Aus or even against Windies at home? Kholi, Gauti, Ashwin were some names that cropped up, but none have established themselves as contenders in this series. Kholi looked under pressure when he led a team in Asia cup, Guati has not won any hearts in selection panel, while Ashwin is confusing everyone if he is batsman or a bowler!!

  • Arran292 on August 11, 2014, 8:46 GMT

    Monday morning here next to Old Trafford and it's bright and sunny. So even if they'd survived the Saturday...India would have lost today. 1. Last 3 days practise was dreadful and lazy..only I know that for sure. None of the indian press or tv media were there so how will they report this to you guys?? 2. No structure in the nets with unenthusiastic bolwers/batsman..apart from Pankaj, Aroon..Ravi 3. Kohli practised the sweep for 2 hours each day and then the massage..I'm not kidding 4. Bowling coach just said hi and vansihed 5. Fletcher hardly there so batsman and bowlers do what they want..England had a plan 6. Players were shopping at the Trafford centre yesterday but they were really nice guys and signed autographs for my son 7. At end of Day 1, when the players were not doing autographs.Dhoni knew I was a bit upset as my son had been waiting for one. He did point, put his hand up to apologise and gave the thumbs up. I respect him for that. That's my summary guys.

  • on August 11, 2014, 8:44 GMT

    If only Mr. cool would be reading!!!

  • ramli on August 11, 2014, 8:38 GMT

    India won in Lords beacuse of madness by Eng batsmen in one session ... otherwise it was a close game with teams fighting to win sessions ... even first test was like that ... in 3rd and 4th tests, Eng simply raised their standards which India just could not do ... may be we are not tuned to playing long test series wherein weaknesses are exposed and there is demand to raise yourself soon ... Processes are important ... no doubt ... but when results are not as expected, then the processes are wrong and need to be corrected ... the batsmen are confused now not knowing whether to attack or defend ... just allow them to bat freely to their strengths as they like in 5th test ... may be this is the simple process that is needed for batsmen to click ... just try

  • wolf777 on August 11, 2014, 8:34 GMT

    Where does the buck stop?

  • PaddynairBlr on August 11, 2014, 8:34 GMT

    Pathetic performance .Really Pathetic.Find it difficult to believe that such a talented batting side should go down so easily.Maybe they are demoralised by the weakness of the bowling attack(knowing that they can't win).However with Broad out and the weather so bad.it was a golden chance for them to draw the test.Process is a very valid point and this has nothing whatsoever to do with it.Its bad batting thats all

    It would be interesting to see as to whether Dhoni would be replaced as Test Captain,should he lose this series....

  • tcarlos on August 11, 2014, 8:01 GMT

    i feel really sorry about india. they only have some hype cricketers who cannot perform overseas. it s high time for them to analyse their domestic circuit and bring good players in rather than looking at money filled ipl which does not create good cricketers. look at past.. dravid azaruddin kapil ... india had good talent and look now.

  • YorkshirePudding on August 11, 2014, 7:53 GMT

    @Gibran Tughlaq, I'm not sure that's the point of the article, everyone knew that Sunday and most likely Monday would be washed out, all they had to do was play positive cricket and get through to the end of the day approximately 3.5 hours from the change over.

  • Karnamkotil on August 11, 2014, 7:48 GMT

    The 1st two Test, India played with fighting spirit and also won the 2nd Test (which was a GREEN pitch) in Lords. Things shud hav gone UP instead of Smashing down on the floor so HARD !! Never thought they will be playing like KENYA in 3rd & 4th Test. Ind & Eng wer both on the same boat before the series started.(Ind had a decent batting series in SA & NZ; where Egn just Lost a series to SL) Then, how come Eng beat Ind so gruesomely !..? Well-That's discipline & a desire to beat the opponent which Eng possessed. My friends wer ROFLing all the time when ever Moen took a wkt. Common guys, each Ranji team has a quality spinner in their team playing on Turning pitches. Then y handling Moen is so tough. He has taken Bucket full of wkts. In contrast, look at the way Eng played Ind spinners. Ashwin & Jadeja simply didn't look like they will ever get a wkt. I don't think Eng needs 5 bowlers. All they need is 45-50 overs to get 10 Ind wkt with Anderson, Broad & Moen. #PatheticPerformance

  • ut4me87 on August 11, 2014, 7:39 GMT

    Anybody watching the series would realize that Dhoni is not a Test Wicketkeeper. He does not go for the chances and leaves it for the first slip, and the ball dies when it gets there or first slip can not take it. I have seen Saha many times. He is the best keeper India have got for the longer format. So please for test matches, time has come for Dhoni to go and hand the gloves to Saha.

  • on August 11, 2014, 7:34 GMT

    I live about 5 miles from OT, and the grass was soaked yesterday. I think there would have been little chance of any play. It's sunny this morning, but the ground is still pretty wet after a lot of rain yesterday. India might have drawn this game but it would still be a long shot.

  • Nutcutlet on August 11, 2014, 7:19 GMT

    I am, as I have said so many times, a cricket-lover who happens to be English. Therefore, I have no side - and certainly nourish no sense of glee - when it comes to making a number of critical observations regarding this current Indian side. I'm not going to list them here. Everyone knows the catalogue anyway. I'll restrict myself to one over-arching and damning comment: Dohni's team don't seem to care about what it is they are serving up. Their general demeanour therefore does an immense disservice to Test cricket. If there was any sense of national pride in representing the second most populated country on the planet, they would have done their damndest to hang on through Saturday, knowing that the heavy rain forecast for Monday might have delivered them a draw. They showed that they had neither the resolve nor the technique to manage that. If, say, NZ, had been in the same position, then we know that every wicket would have been begrudged - and the draw would have been well earned.

  • on August 11, 2014, 7:15 GMT

    its a Sport, its very hard for me to believe we are discussing rains instead of cricket, it is better to loose game to team of 11 then to rain. No doubt we played badly, but look for the rain for the rescue is poor.

  • sshadab on August 11, 2014, 7:10 GMT

    This should be the line up, Vijay, Ashwin, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Dhoni (only batsman, captain and occasional bowler), Wriddiman Saha, Akshar Patel, Bhuvi, Aaron, Umesh

  • sshadab on August 11, 2014, 7:03 GMT

    My suggestion might seem radical, but the problem is at the top of the order. Ashwin and Vijay should open the innings and this should be the long term solution. Ashwin appears more accomplished, and a good stint with the bat will give him confidence with his bowling as well. We will then be able to accomodate an additional batsman or bowler. Pujara needs to come in around the 20th or 25th over if not later, but he is currently exposed within the first 10 overs.

  • on August 11, 2014, 7:01 GMT

    Just bizzare...They have forgotten how to fight it out.....going down fighting is one thing and abject surrender is one thing....Indians did not look like they wanted to fight...and their tactics right after winning the LORDS test was pathetic..they went Defensive in 3rd test going with extra Batsman ..its shows they went defensive to draw the test and it all started with SIR JADEJA spilling the catch of cook.As they say Catches win matches ..Dropping catches drop Series....

  • on August 11, 2014, 7:00 GMT

    Kohli can never be a good captain. He is not at all a captaincy material. Need to find someone or groom someone who is yet to get a test cap

  • on August 11, 2014, 6:50 GMT

    pathetic performance really!!!!!!!!! No application to survive! the way they batted it was a competition to loose as fast as possible well it will be good to know IQ of Indian players

  • JohnSmith451 on August 11, 2014, 6:48 GMT

    Call Indians Back Home. If they cant play there is no excuse. How come the eng team batting is playing well and indian batsmen cant play.

    Indian Team should play based on merit. There should be no exception to drop any player. Play or get dropped.

  • on August 11, 2014, 6:42 GMT

    @nagaraj, laughable to see you blaming Dravid and batting consultancy as the reason for the failure and calling him an uninspirational leader.. after all dravid has a better away captaincy record than Dhoni in tests...

    and why should kohli's form should be a reason for not getting the test mantle.. what was dhoni's performance in wc 2007, for him to get captaincy of t20.. pls check that.. he got 2 ducks and not more than 20 runs in 3 games in his best format.. form is temporary.. kohli will get better fighting spirit into the captaincy.. can think of fleming captaining very well with his form never being consideration.. greame smith was the best player of SA when he was appointed captain at 21..

  • Sir_Ivor on August 11, 2014, 6:41 GMT

    Dhoni must resign from all formats of the game. In fact even before the final Test if possible. I remember how Michael Vaughn resigned mid series against South Africa some years ago. That is what is needed. Kohlii should take over and I am certain he will get his form back. India is stuttering because of Dhoni. I wish he realizes this and gets out.

  • on August 11, 2014, 6:38 GMT

    @ rkannancrown: when young player dont play you people say they are young... its ok.... but when experienced player wont play you people say they are old now remove them they are burden on team... give chance to young guns..... what are you trying to say....let them play for 100 matches loose them get experience and then with it they will 10 matches and become old.. then replace them with young guns and same story repeats................ Just to open your eyes...at this time only the Indian team has most expereinced player compared with other teams....

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on August 11, 2014, 6:38 GMT

    @glen1-' The day when crowds stop watching one day cricket, the sport will be dusted. ' Dont worry mate . There's always the t20/IPL format which is the game of the future ,of the genY as we call. Lets face ,entertainment is,at end of day , name of the game.And the shortest format provides just what the genY are looking for - entertainment,entertainment,entertainment !! All that providing for a good evening/ night out with family,friends and in 3 1/2 hours.

  • aslam_cric on August 11, 2014, 6:15 GMT

    The hunger to succeed is not there.. That is probably why they are looking for any possible way to win. The best example is the way Pak beat SL last time in Dubai and SL beat Pak yesterday. SL beating was just phenomenal about the way which Angelo Mathews carried his team and his hunger to win

  • rkannancrown on August 11, 2014, 6:12 GMT

    The man who got settled & was in the middle of a decent partnership was Dhoni. One can excuse relatively inexperienced players like Rahane, Kumar or Jadeja but excuse for Dhoni ? Ashwin was batting well at the other end and the need was for cool headed batting & not jumping out of crease by the captain.

  • on August 11, 2014, 5:55 GMT

    If India keep preparing wickets for spinners and batsmen, this is going to happen in every tour. Same result. We have bowlers but not fierce bowlers with lively pace.On fast bowler track you can not expect bowler bowling at 130 Km speed and win matches for you,,Look what Mitch Johnson did in Aus against Eng,,, he used serious nasty pace,, which Bhuci,, or Pankaj,, Or Shami lacks,, If Moin can get so many wickets,, why cant Ashwin??

  • on August 11, 2014, 5:52 GMT

    The capitulation by the Indian team in a matter of few hours was deeply disappointing. Players who have earned their reputation on the basis of their ability to play long stints at the wicket like Pujara seem all at sea. The lesser said about Kohli, the better and to think they were compared to Dravid and Sachin evokes much mirth. What the Indian team surely needs is an inspiring Captain not a muddled oneMSD looks jaded and uninspiring to say the least. Why Amit Mishra was not taken on this tour remains a big wonder. MSD's reluctance to let go of Sir Jadeja whom he considers his talisman is also intriguing to say the least. We need a Captain who knows the strategy of setting fields and bowling the best bowlers. Any choices? Well MSD has quickly ensured that there are no challengers to his post atleast for the time being with Kohli looking all at sea and No Hit Sharma looking equally palpable.

  • notimeforcricket on August 11, 2014, 5:52 GMT

    Cricket is a mental game and, as Nasser Hussain said, India were "gone" mentally. Logically, they would have have taken a few wickets on day 3 and there would have been at least some play on day 5 for them to finish even if India had fought it out. Dohni's comments are ridiculous. When England lost to Sri Lanka, the fact that Moeeen Ali fought so hard and they nearly saved the game gave everyone lift. Australia fought back very hard in the last 2 or 3 games in England. Although they did not win them and lost the series, they had begun to shift momentum, which they continued in the return series. Losing defiantly can give you the lift going into the next game. Imagine Kohli bats for 2 hours and scratches out 30. At least he has shown he is prepared to fight. Maybe he gets 100 in the next game. It could still happen of course but players showing no pride gives the opposition a lift.

  • gundapps on August 11, 2014, 5:48 GMT

    So disappointing for die hard Indian fans to see the Indian team capitulate in such a pathetic manner without even a semblance of a fight. With the weather forecast for Sunday being constantly dinned into us viewers by the commentators, it is quite disheartening that the Indian batters did not manage to stay put on the third day to take advantage of the only chance they had to save this test - the weather.

  • TrumperLives on August 11, 2014, 5:47 GMT

    India's record in overseas Test Matches, is well, just appalling. And until there is a revolution in pitch preparation, that is, curators stop producing feather-bed and made for spin wickets, then they will continue to be the easy-beats of international cricket. IPL must also take some of the blame too.

  • on August 11, 2014, 5:46 GMT

    abject surrender is all i have to say and i repeat not only change the team but change the batting order please rest kohli .gambhir and rohit are not needed binny was never needed shami and pankaj do not have the luck factor and ishant is injured so that leaves us with only eleven at kia oval and the batting order should be vijay ashwin rahane dhawan pujara dhoni naman bhuvi jadeja pandey aaron .before this test match i had said the same .please stop blaming dhoni he has done more than any other indian captain or w/k and before this its not that a indian team has not been beaten so badly [remember the last series]

  • Yarms on August 11, 2014, 5:39 GMT

    So the Indian team consist of One opening bat, no no. 2, 3 or 4, a good no 5. A no 6. With doubtful keeping skills , a no 7. Who does not get runs nor turns the ball.. A No. 8. Who was top scorer for India in total.. But did not spin one in his entire spell... Two seamers who held their own and one seamer who took 413 balls to get a wicket... Perhaps due to the fact that we have slips that can't catch! ...... In short we have possibly 4 in the side vs. 11 in theirs... We then question why we did not win?

  • Durgasharan on August 11, 2014, 5:38 GMT

    Mr. Dhoni is not keen on test cricket. The first time he took a break from cricket after becoming captain, he took it from a test series against Sri Lanka and he return for the ODI series. That clearly showed his priorities. BCCI made a mistake by appointing him as the test captain and compounded it by retaining him after his side lost 0-4 in 2011. This man is not interested in test cricket. Period. Let him be in ODI and T-20 where he is very good. For the sake of several test careers let the upcoming test be the last test where he is a captain. This is a plea to the selectors from an interested fan.

  • nagrajbc on August 11, 2014, 5:34 GMT

    Dravid was hired as a batting consultant for this tour.....I am surprised what inputs he has given to this team....As a captain he was not inspirational...India performed miserably in WC 2007...and even failed as batting consultant too miserably...As a player no doubt about his capabilities but some how as a leader in International level he is exactly opposite as a player......

  • saranshguptasupercool on August 11, 2014, 5:29 GMT

    India and Dhoni's woes started since 2011 when they lost 4-0 to England in England. 2011 was the year when India won the World Cup after 28 years. Add to that, irresponsible remarks by Dhoni. So can we conclude that he has lost appetite to win after World Cup and thinks that there is nothing else to be achieved? Thus lacking motivation.

  • on August 11, 2014, 5:19 GMT

    Sidharth i don't agree with you.. rain or no rain Seeing the India's overseas record this was going to happen and i think India's cricket management is very mach responsible for this... if you keep trusting the people who failed you before you will keep getting the same result. i think India should look for a big change for there overseas team.

  • joseyesu on August 11, 2014, 5:16 GMT

    To say rain has saved the match for India is not somebody can boast of. Anyway india did not give that chance

  • ishaan1997 on August 11, 2014, 5:14 GMT

    @sridhar How can you call rahane hyped and inconsistent? He is 4th on top run scorer this series and his century was IMO the main reason India won. Moreover, all his international tours have been good. And he has the best technique to handle England bowlers. One bad shot and he becomes hyped? He has only played 9 test matches so for and he hasn't done that bad. Also, if you know, he and pujara are the most determined persons in this team. They rarely repeat mistakes.

  • raj_n on August 11, 2014, 5:10 GMT

    A test match is intriguing because it gives the players a chance to show their true character. Temperament, skill,patience, acumen, grit, determitation and other qualities are tested. This is the reason a test match is interesting and also the reason why only genuine cricket lovers watch the game. So Dhoni is mistaken in saying that there is no difference in losing in 3 days over 5 days. There is a definite lack of determination in this team and this needs to be remedied. Having said that if any other Indian eleven had taken the park the result would not have been much different.

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:54 GMT

    "What is the difference how many days it takes you to lose; a loss is a loss." For all the supposed brilliance of the captain, it is amazing how inane some of his statements are! Are we seriously supposed to believe that the quality and manner of defeat forms no part of the so-called 'process'? Are there no differences in the lessons you learn from one defeat versus another? The Brazilian soccer team has lost many times, but rarely have you seen their fans crying their heart out as they did during the 1-7 loss to Germany. There is a big difference Mr. Dhoni!

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:51 GMT

    Indian team lack leadership. Manager, Captain, Senior Players provide the foresight and fortitude. Leadership is weak and its on field tactics lack purpose and imagination.

  • Rahul_Singh on August 11, 2014, 4:42 GMT

    It needs to be firmly said which all legends of Indian cricket refrain from saying that it is time to look beyond Mr Dhoni as our test cricket captain and player. Both his wicket keeping and captaincy are letting India down, he remains a fighter contributing with bat despite not being equipped technically to deal with moving ball but is it really enough?.

    There are some very great omissions from the Indian test team, it is a matter of debate whether Ashwin is the best off-spinner and why is repeatedly being picked despite return in form of Harbhajan Singh.

    It is a well known fact that very few Indian openers have survived such tough foreign tours however Virender Sehwag has provided time and again that he can provide momentum and positive energy as a opener. He has had some failures but is punished more.

    Its high time for for Captain to take responsibility for team's repeated abject failures but will it happen, maybe not.

  • landl47 on August 11, 2014, 4:42 GMT

    I don't see any lack of talent in the Indian side. They are missing some vital qualities as a result of the way cricket is played in India, but it's for them to decide whether to rectify that situation. The most obvious lack is that of stamina; playing T20 cricket doesn't equip players for 5 back-to-back 5-day tests. By the end of the England innings, Bhuvi, Aaron and Pankaj were bowling with no fire or aggression. Aaron took his 3 wickets early and finished with 3-97. Pankaj was down to medium pace (80-82mph). Bhuvi wasn't getting the swing and nip off the pitch that he was earlier. The batsmen were tired after 4 sessions in the field spread over 3 days and played tired shots.

    The other thing is that they don't get top quality FC cricket in the Indian system. Too many mediocre players, no imports; how else does Jadeja get 3 triple-centuries?

    Bring in a tougher FC system and play more FC cricket. That's the solution. However, since there's no money in it, it's not going to happen.

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:31 GMT

    If the No.8 Batsmen Ashwin can play for 2 hours why not Rahane,Virat and Pujara could n't do it. Its really pathetic and over hyped players of Rahane , Virat and Pujara who does n't have consistency.

  • murali623 on August 11, 2014, 4:29 GMT

    Sack Dhoni from team, India is losing because of his premature statements after wold cup 2011 win. He was said that will continue inn all the three formats 2013. He looks over selfish, their people who can lead India in his absence. He wants to control the team in all departments, which he can't after 2013. Come-on Dhoni, u should have quit test cricket by 2013. it is not your style of game.

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:28 GMT

    i realiy dis pointed team india players at least we play 4th day

  • titus_p on August 11, 2014, 4:27 GMT

    Sometimes players complain we go overboard when criticizing them, but when they play like this, they deserve this 10 times more. Poorest batting seen in recent times. Nothing is going to change.. I hope the selectors are reading these comments. Sincerely hope Dhoni is not the captain for the Australian series, players should be selected only on current form and not on reputation. Look how England changed Matt Prior mid of the series and what a change the team went through. It seems the series is ending 3-1. Supposed to be the best batsmen against spin. Couldn't keep even that reputation intact.

  • crazytaurean on August 11, 2014, 4:23 GMT

    It amazes me how perspectives change. On the eve of the India test win the whole world was baying for Cook's blood. Doubts were being cast on Bell's presence, Robson's presence et al. Such speculation and over reaction after a test loss in English conditions. India has always bee vulnerable in Eglish conditions and no you donot have the Dravids and the Tendulkars around to pull you out. It is a young side and each member is trying to establish himself. The root cause will throw up some interesting points. India has been devoid of any good opening stands. Get good opening stands and invariably you are in steady state. Dhoni needs to look into this aspect. Murali is Ok. But who partners with him? Pujara would be a good choice for the Oval.

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:17 GMT

    if we batted till third day,fourthday full rain and we have fifth day india still loss

  • m_ilind on August 11, 2014, 4:13 GMT

    Why should we allow the weather to hide our team's shortcomings? This Indian team needs to be shown in it's true colors, only then things will change! Firstly, India should accept DRS like all other countries... that way they can't blame poor umpiring, as MS has done in the past.

    It was a golden opportunity for Dhoni to apply his defensive mindset and save a Test match, but this team doesn't know how to put up a fight! The team needs to show some character, till then there are no superstars in this team.

  • on August 11, 2014, 4:11 GMT

    Dhoni, please go out of the test team. We admire Dhoni for the fight he shows every time you play. But, unfortunately you lack the skills and the nous required to play or be a captain in tests. But it hurts to hear ridiculous excuses over and over again...

    India should hand the test captaincy to Virat or Gambhir and drop Dhoni, Shikar Dhawan and Ravidra Jadeja from the test team. They just dont have the technique or the mindset to play tests

  • ramz_01 on August 11, 2014, 4:10 GMT

    well if india scored 300 in 1st inn no need to read dis artical 2day bt seems like indian selecters doing same mistake again and again whr gambhir s body language shows how much low in confidant he is, to be honest india nvr gona do well unless test captain change.

  • schathuranga on August 11, 2014, 4:03 GMT

    India again proved they cant stand outside the subcontinent .sri lanka and Pakistan far better than them.

  • Cool_Jeeves on August 11, 2014, 3:49 GMT

    I dont understand what the big fuss is. As long as Dhoni is captain all these defeats should be expected. I think after Brazil Germany, the next 7-1 will be this year's England+Australia test series. What a record, 8-0 last time and 7-1 now...!

    Now if Dhoni were removed from captaincy, and anyone else, just anyone else, were made captain, you would see the very same set of players do much better. The team would have a chance of doing its best, regardless of whether that proves to be good enough or not. But right now, we are not really serious about Tests, with Dhoni at the wheel.

  • on August 11, 2014, 3:48 GMT

    Stopping T20 or F50 are not the options because cricket game is evolving and the 3 formats like test cricket, t20 & f50 (LOL - my own term for fifty-fifty overs ODI) are good for the growth of this game. Let us not forget that we are talking about democracy - these games are played among democratic countries and not among kingdoms so it is the majority of the people what decide it counts, if you look at the stadium full spectators and people glued to the TV etc it clearly shows that there are lots of people enjoy the shorter versions of the cricket too so banning ipl etc is not a choice. Those who wish to play well in all 3 formats will put their best effort and will continue to play, look at De Villiers of South Africa - you give any version of cricket to him he will try to excel in all formats so the shorter versions do not spoil test skills if one knows how to play test cricket properly. In fact having more versions makes this game more challenging, competitive & exciting.

  • mayank_mickey16 on August 11, 2014, 3:43 GMT

    As a cricket fan, I generally do not get easily bothered about if India wins or loses. It's the way they do it. The last two tests , Indian batsmen have shown themselves to be weak . That doesn,t mean they lack the talent required at the highest level. Remember Johannesburg last year, perhaps the most difficult pitch to bat on first, more recently Lords. Indian batsmen are generously blessed in terms of batting talent, it's the application thats lacking. Remeber sydney 2004, Tendulkar was almost getting dismissed in the same fashion as Kohli. He got his game face on and with a steely grit scored a double ton. I think people like ganguly and dravid should get involved with the national team to bring the best out of our players. Hopefully by the time oval test arrives , the team has learnt from its mistakes.

  • Realistic_cri_fan on August 11, 2014, 3:36 GMT

    Poor batting display for 1/2hr in one match.In 1st innings in 13 mins they lost 4 wickets for 0 runs.In 2nd innings in 15 mins they lost 5 wickets.What is going on in this team?They don't have the mental stability to bat long.Look at Ian bell and Root.They batted beautifully and save their team.In my opinion Joe root is ten times better than Kohli.He has no weakness against swing and spin.He has the ability to bat all day and he can bat with the tail too.Indian batsmen have learn from Bell and Root.I doubt this brainless and unstable cricketers will ever do that.Next match I'm tipping for another innings win for England.

  • _-Will-_ on August 11, 2014, 3:35 GMT

    I can appreciate, to some extent, that captains may wish to put a certain spin on things during their interviews. Dhoni has a reputation for the bizarre when it comes to post match interviews. He often uses highly spurious logic when interpreting results. He is free to do so, and the public is free to "make of it what you will", as Monga invites us to do.

    "60 overs is a big target" - really? it is only two thirds of a standard day's play in tests, or two out of a potential 15 sessions of play, 13.333% of a test match. The message? Any batting innings that lasts over 60 overs must be anomalous. Thus, when opponents bat out 60+ overs, they have achieved a "big target", and probably a score too big to attempt to chase down.

    This just raises other questions, one being: what is Dhoni telling the bowlers?

    I'm a tad curious - what are Angleo Matthews and Hashim Amla are telling their batsmen? Or is it just dumb luck that those teams manage to bat out 100+ overs to win/save test matches?

  • vimalmutha on August 11, 2014, 3:30 GMT

    We all are very sad on the defeat of 4th Test. Inida played like a school team and now it is time for Inidan Selectors to retrospect and take steps to build a new team for next world cup.

  • on August 11, 2014, 3:27 GMT

    In these circumstances the coach should step up and he should have anticipated this bad weather. Understand our players are not performing but the truth is our coach is not doing his job his well...

  • on August 11, 2014, 3:23 GMT

    Unless IPL is banned, nothing will Improve. As far India is concerned, everyone are trying to fix Problems for short term.

    Kholi should change his entire approach towards Cricket. He should be respectful (of opponents), humble and more steely inside, less showy outside.

    Pujara and Rahane have to work more on (mental)temperament. Rahane could be groomed for future Captaincy.

    Vijay need a better opening batsman as partner.

    But most important issue, is we should find a genuine allrounder and spin bowler along with decent backup fast bowlers. Bhuvanesh and Aaron can be earmarked as Fast bowlers in combination for future.

  • Sniper on August 11, 2014, 3:22 GMT

    Team India just showed how poorly off they were in English conditions. Kohli and Pujara have failed too often to be in the team. Dhoni is getting old and his wicket keeping is not upto the mark.Sanju Samson should be brought in. Anew Captain is the need of the hour. Kohli in his present form is not suitable. Maybe Rahane or even Ashwin may be a better choice. Team selection should be based on current form and not on past performances. This will do a world of a good to Team India. Sniper

  • BigDataIsAHoax on August 11, 2014, 3:13 GMT

    Finally, we are giving enough attention to the fact that Dhoni is a redundant part of this team. I have been screaming for his head since 2011 but nobody cares. Not the ones with power, anyway. I mean just have a look at his batting, keeping and captaincy records overseas. It is a no-brainer. We need a fresh mind to take charge. New ideas, aggressive cricket, attacking cricket. Not a captain who pushes the field back at 150/6. Agreed, India's batting was horrible this innings. But, Virat, Pujara and Rahane have shown enough over the foreign tours of SA, NZ and now England. They are very young in TESTs, mind you. Remember how India crumbled in Australia and England when Sachin was young ? The problem is DHONI. HE HAS TO GO!! We need a genuine wicket-keeper batsman. GET Saha!! He has gone on record to say the 35 he scored in Adelaide meant lot more to him than the IPL final 100 this season!! That's what we should look at in a test cricketer!! DHONI PLEASE...GO!!

  • hnlns on August 11, 2014, 3:10 GMT

    To remove this careless attitude, this bunch of Indian cricketers, especially the batsmen, need someone like Greg Chappell to discipline them. He would have been very harsh on such rashness seen on Saturday, but then these cricketers are too pampered and overrated and do not want to listen to some frank and justified criticism. This is the real problem with this bunch of cricketers. Having played so well at Lord's on the liveliest conditions, this kind of give away is inexplicable. Now, all England have to do to inflict another sound thrashing is to ask the Oval curator to produce a fast bouncy pitch and roll over this dispirited Indian side in another one-sided test.

  • glen1 on August 11, 2014, 3:06 GMT

    Wadekar, who brought the best of overseas victories in West Indies and England, gave up captaincy after the English tour that led to a 42 all out. Dhoni is in his second humiliation in England; unless some miracle works at Oval, he needs to resign from Test Cricket forever, and not go to Australia. It is better to lose under another person, even an Ashwin as Captain, but not Dhoni. It is ridiculous to persist with him because there is nobody else; he simply lacks the guile, attention span, and skill sets to play or captain the longer format; additionally, his keeping is a major liability.

  • on August 11, 2014, 3:05 GMT

    Playing in ' V ' suit in conditions in Indian Subcontinent where the swing is minimal and bounce in wicket is up till waist high. But in places like England where the ball swings enormously and bounces at shoulder level of an average heighted Indian player, the players will have to learn to play horizontal bat shots and also to leave plenty of balls (in Tests) when the opponents line of attack is outside the off stump.

  • on August 11, 2014, 2:52 GMT

    I would like to see a young and performing captain, one who can inspire by his own performance. Dhoni is simply not that good right now to be a test captain. Ajinkaya Rahane is one player whom I would like to see as a young Test captain. Somehow I feel that playing at number 6 or 7, you can't inspire the team with your performance, no matter how good you are.

  • subcontinent-expert on August 11, 2014, 2:49 GMT

    "This is similar to the time in Australia in 2011-12, when with one match to go in the triangular ODI series India had an ......" you remember what haopened next....???

    HOBART 320+ score inside 40 overs..!!! (chasing)

    What that tells..?? These guys are currently under some pressure but when they makes a come back.. they do it in HARD-WAY...

  • on August 11, 2014, 2:36 GMT

    Biggest problem for Indian batsmen are their overconfident. for first two test they are much more aware of english situation and they played according to that. But if u see next two tests they simply not followed strategy they used in first two tests. just look at dismissal of Vijay, Rahane. They are looking to score runs immediately when they arrived on crease.

  • Sexysteven on August 11, 2014, 2:27 GMT

    India I do blame the selectors a lot for blowing this series had they got the balance right from the start I believe they still would have a chance of winning this series I do believe dhonis days as a keeper in test cricket is over he just makes to many errors he can play as batsmen maybe I would also take the captaincy off him at the end of the series and give it to kohli and I so would bring in Samson he's ready for test cricket he's aclass act already get him in I say kohl is approach would be more aggressive and that would be handy against the Aussies if dhoni stays as captain India has no chance of winning outside of India

  • nareshgb1 on August 11, 2014, 2:18 GMT

    well it is very curious - England pretty much threw away the second test with their "hooking frenzy" and India have done the same in the next two. The way they did it in this test was nothing short of sinister. Remains to be seen what twist England put forth in the last test.

    I have a good mind to bet on India.

  • on August 11, 2014, 2:11 GMT

    early on in the year i was talking to a friend n i told him that Nz, Aus, Sa & Eng should just stick to fast bowling because their spinners 'read slow bowlers' suck!. but this 1 moeen ali seems like he can do the job for england. it was good to see aron bowling well , he should have been in the 11 from the beginning in my opinion. y umesh yadav was left out of the squad was beyond me as well. India need fast bowlers who have pace , not dibbly dobblers like binny & pankaj singh. Kumar is the exception to the rule as he has been bowling well . if ishant isnt fit for the oval then yadav should get a call up to take over from pankaj & mayb ashwin/ sharma / rahane could open with vijay . jadeja n ashwin could do the job 4 india @ the oval as well . my 11 - rahane, vijay , pujara, kohli, sharma , ashwin, jadeja, dhohin, kumar , aron , yadav

  • on August 11, 2014, 2:09 GMT

    Doni's luck ran out at least in this test. How far luck can help one, one needs to take smart decisions too, doni could call a tennis player or chess player to come and bowl and that player would get him a wicket, give me a break, some luck is fine and we all need some luck in life but so much luck? look at sachin when he was captain - sachin's batting average was better when he was captain, he used to score very big runs (many big centuries, half centuries etc frequently) and he used to take decisions at least as good as doni takes as a captain but sachin would lose almost always, i have never seen such unlucky captains as sachin. even saurav, rahul etc also did very great as captains and batsmen but they were not at all lucky as doni. This doni wins most of the matches because of his luck, but in this test luck did not favor him, rather it ditched him. All he was supposed to do was to avoid any silly rash shots by himself and same other batsmen too & rain was expected

  • sray23 on August 11, 2014, 2:08 GMT

    There's no easy fix to India's problems. The main problem is the current team cannot take 20 wickets consistently. And this is nothing new - since 80 years of playing Test cricket, never once has India had a genuinely feared bowling attack. The reason? The sad trend of flat pitches making for boring cricket continues to this day in Ranji trophy. As a result, fast bowlers are brought up not to bowl at 100% and beng their backs and spinners get no purchase so just start darting the ball - two things that get ruthlessly exposed at international level. There's no overnight solution to this. Dhoni is actually on the right path in picking 5 bowlers - because that is the strategy which gives us the best chance to take 20 wickets - and I hope he doesn't abandon this strategy because of this one loss. After that, us fans will just need to suck it up because there is probably more pain to come.

  • Siva_Bala75 on August 11, 2014, 2:04 GMT

    The two best Indian batsmen Murali Vijay and Rahane. Even they are not good enough. Murali Vijay got run out in the last test and in the second innings, when Woakes was bowling he does not play with the same way that he does Anderson or Broad. Rahane gets out to Moeen Ali. I don't know about the commitment but definitely this Indian team is not smart.

  • jmcilhinney on August 11, 2014, 1:58 GMT

    For Dhoni to imply that his batsmen don't need to be told to bat for time because they are experienced is simply not true. We are all human beings and human beings are great at not seeing what's right in front of them. You would think that the England bowlers are too experienced to have been told to pitch the ball up on or about off stump at Lords and yet look what happened there. Dhoni goes on to say that they tell the batsmen to break up their innings into small goals. If you think they need to be told that then surely you believe that at least reinforcing that they need to bat for time is a good idea. If they already have it in mind then you do know harm but reinforcing what's important is never a bad thing. Mind you, given that Dhoni himself didn't seem averse to taking a risk, maybe it didn't even occur to him. Mind you, Dhoni I can forgive little, just as with Matt Prior's hundred against NZ, Dhoni doesn't have the defence to last long blocking. Those before him are different.

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on August 11, 2014, 1:51 GMT

    @Vishal Thakkar- Sehvag as captain?Last thing India needs now ,i.e a 'non playing' captain a.k.a Brearly of Eng.Considering Ind play a lot of o/s tests in coming time.We all know he struggles to last 4 overs those conds.More so now.Vinay K's a better opt.

  • sudhindranath on August 11, 2014, 1:48 GMT

    The last time the two teams played at the Oval, the scores were:

    Eng - 591/6 Ind - 300 & 283 (lost by inns and 8 runs)

    There were only 26 overs possible on Day 1. On Day 2, there were 97 overs. Day 3, 63 overs. Day 4, 96 overs and Day 5, 56 overs (by the time India lost the match).

    So, even though a full day's play (91 overs) was lost due to rain, India still managed to lose the match with 34 overs remaining on Day 5.

    India can't count on rain to bail them out at the Oval. It is still early days but as of now, there is forecast for some showers on Day 1, but Days 2-5 are all expected to be partly cloudy with little or no chance of rain...

  • on August 11, 2014, 1:48 GMT

    Even in this so called humiliating defeat, India has taken a revenge of sorts. By finishing the game with in 3 days, they have inflicted a financial injury to ECB in terms of match revenues.

  • on August 11, 2014, 1:46 GMT

    Rainy or sunny ,india will loose with an inning runs....

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on August 11, 2014, 1:10 GMT

    Well!This just puts even more perspective into magnitude of defeat,does'nt it?Albeit the series score book will show 'just' an 'inngs and 54 runs' loss in 3 days.Safe to say with this showing they did'nt deserve outside chance of an escape.And they did'nt

  • on August 11, 2014, 1:08 GMT

    blaming dhoni for everything ,batting failure dhoni is the problem,do we have one quality fast bowler dhoni is the problem

    who are you gonna give captincy,didnt he bat in 1st innings getting half team score

  • on August 11, 2014, 0:17 GMT

    now Indain team wish that Rains dont pour down in the next test match so that they could focus on their game seriously and without any interreuption,only to bounce back with renewed and rejenuvated fire power,to level up the series and save them from embarssment and disgrace.

  • Test_Match_Fan on August 11, 2014, 0:06 GMT

    India deserves to get beaten. After 1st test I posted comments to drop Kohli: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/760283.html?comments=all#usrcomment

    Send Kohli, Jadeja and Dhoni back to Ranji Trophy. Sorry but 20/20 is entertainment and not cricket Did the think tank not know all this? then fire the think tank also.

  • Selfishkar on August 10, 2014, 23:04 GMT

    Rainy day are not good for sight seeing but great for shopping indoors. Indian team won't regret one bit.

  • Selfishkar on August 10, 2014, 23:02 GMT

    @Ninad Dixit: Sachin, Dravid, Harbajan, Laxman and Co were part of the team that lost 0-4 in 2011, current team at-least won at Lord and drew first test.

  • on August 10, 2014, 22:33 GMT

    And People constantly criticize the South African team (No 1 in the world) for not playing for the win! Well we just saw the difference between recklessness and cautioned planned batting. Teams like India have no match awareness in Test cricket these days! South Africa know when to take the game to their opponents and when to hold back to get what they can. That is what has made them the most consistent team of the last 5/6 years in Test cricket.

  • whirlaway on August 10, 2014, 22:00 GMT

    @R_U_4_REAL_NICK: After seeing how much time was lost on Day 2, it was clear to me that England was in a race against the weather. When it comes to things like remnants of a hurricane, the rains don't have to be heavy. However, it will not be brief showers followed by sunshine but a steady pitter-patter rain all the time. There is zero chance for cricket under such conditions. I realized that in such a case, the best scenario would be 2-3 hours of play on Monday, if at all.

    But India helped England beat the weather and ended the proceedings on Day 3 itself with about 25 overs to spare! Congratulations! ;-)

  • MarvinX on August 10, 2014, 21:52 GMT

    It is not too late to make changes for the fifth test. India cannot win or draw with the current team. So why not gamble and get a younger unit out there that can show some spirit? The commentators have repeatedly ridiculed Dhoni's field placings and bowling changes, here and in NZ and AUS. For the sake of the indian team can they not go up to Dhoni and advice him? There was absolutely no pressure on the England batsmen while the indian batsmen had a Silly point and 2 short legs for Moin. Duncan Fletcher should be removed ASAP and replaced by senior indian players.

  • voyrison on August 10, 2014, 21:52 GMT

    It just happened to England in Australia - outplayed and too mentally down to put up a fight. Now its India's turn to suffer with England way on top.

  • whirlaway on August 10, 2014, 21:45 GMT

    @ crindo77: "Yup 0-4,0-4,0-1,0-1,1-2..."

    That is India - "Win one, lose a dozen (or two)"! LOL

  • whirlaway on August 10, 2014, 21:40 GMT

    Even though it is like shuffling a pack of cards all of which are jokers, still it is a good idea for India to make the MAXIMUM number of changes for the next Test: Dhawan for Gambhir, Binny for Jadeja, R. Sharma for Kohli/Pujara, Ojha for Dhoni, I.Sharma/Pandey for Singh. If Kohli is not dropped, make him the captain, and if he is dropped, make some wildcard like Binny to be the captain.

  • glen1 on August 10, 2014, 21:39 GMT

    Test cricket requires grit and determination and an understanding of the heavy burden imposed by the fans. Sadly, Indian team lacks it and India will never be a first rate test playing nation; however it will always be good at the short form of the game. This has happened to Windies and now India; only SA, AUS, Eng, NZ are suited for the long attritional format, which is going through its own sustenance pains. The day when crowds stop watching one day cricket, the sport will be dusted.

  • on August 10, 2014, 21:35 GMT

    since duncan fletcher has come india has lost 5 n full chance of 6 n won only 3 . 2 of which against W.I n N.Z resp. n dhoni should resign capt. happily from test if nt thn bcci shld take serious step against dhoni test capt.dhoni says we wil hav two days of rest which is gud den give him permnnt rest frm d test.let c wht kind of impact u can give of tht two days rest.shame on u if u lose dis series

  • on August 10, 2014, 21:17 GMT

    Dhoni is a poor captain in this format of cricket. With defensive mindset and lack of imagination have cost India tests from winnable positions. The last test could have been saved, but there doesn't seem to any awareness of the conditions within the team. Its high time to replace the coach as well.

  • on August 10, 2014, 20:54 GMT

    What I cant fathom are these team selections. They take out a guy who atleast shows guts at the top and can last 10 overs against the new ball in favour of a guy who struggles at the nets these days and thinks the leading edge is the side of the bat you hit the ball with. Then the 5 bowler theory with 2 spinners. On hard unresponsive english wickets its utter folly. Why cant we pick 4 seamers? The seamers do most of the bowling anyway in both the innings. And then we give 19 wickets to a part time spinner and bat like Englishmen against this guy who doesnt even spin it. And then the 2 days extra rest jibe. I wonder if this team even cares about their performances anymore.

  • on August 10, 2014, 20:41 GMT

    Ind 4/8 in 1st inn was soly due to Dhoni's terrible decision to bat first.

    Dhoni gave poor fields to bowlers not encouraging them to bowl full which is Indian bowling's only possible way to take wickets

    Dhoni operated with part timers vs Balance & Cook in 3rd test allowing Cook to regain form & confidence consequently Eng to pile up huge total. When opponents is on mat don't let him stand up

  • UnbiasedCricFan on August 10, 2014, 20:31 GMT

    Some very delusional comments on Dhoni being kicked out the test team, I get captaincy but he was the only consistent player making runs for india even though they were not big knocks. He is a mediocre test captain BUT in this test he played well for his 70 and 27 (Despite the last shot he got out), He went a little defensive during ENG end of innings which was poor but his captaincy did not lose us the game, his top order did. That too and he soaks up all the pressure from the media on his regards.

  • mukhedi on August 10, 2014, 20:22 GMT

    India deserve to loose. They have unilaterally refused to accept the DRS rule. Had they done so they could have challenged the lbw decision against Pujara which may have stemmed the rot. Not accepting the DRS rule gives the impression that the team does not subscribe to fair play.

  • cavd on August 10, 2014, 20:20 GMT

    No more talk about resting players. India should sack Dhoni . His Test record is awful, particularly given India's immense, bloated resources.

  • glen1 on August 10, 2014, 20:20 GMT

    Sid: India lacks the ability to play with weather, modulate accordingly, or to snatch a draw when chips are down. It only lives in clear victories and defeats. Yes, it is absolutely cultural and representative of the bigger picture. If the team has any grit left, it will show in the next match, otherwise, this is what it is. Dhoni could have looked skyward and chosen to field; he could have dropped Jadeja and picked Pandey and so on. But the fact remains that India will never be good at the long format; there is neither the stamina, nor the grit to fight it out. The bird has flown, and there is no point worrying. I think they will continue to do well in the shorter formats staying near the top forever; and this is good for World Cricket.

  • k243_gsa on August 10, 2014, 20:19 GMT

    definitely viru paaji....whatever b the case...teams truely are afraid of him....pitches/conditions/bowler/situation...really dont change his game...india are wasting such a wonderful wonderful batsman.....if ishant/jadeja/rohit/dhawan...etc...can be so long in the team w/o any real performance...then why viru and bhajji are kept out..bhajji has far bettr record than ashwin in away tests...cheer for sehwag..bring him back his best is on the way.

  • mukhedi on August 10, 2014, 20:12 GMT

    India deserve to loose. They have unilaterally refused to accept the DRS rule. Had they done so they could have challenged the lbw decision against Pujara which may have stemmed the rot. Not accepting the DRS rule gives the impression that the team does not subscribe to fair play.

  • baskar_guha on August 10, 2014, 20:09 GMT

    What induces such behavior is lack of consequences for irresponsible performances. The selection committee if it has any standing should put a team on the field which has fight as losing doesn't hurt as much as lack of fight. Rest Kohli, rest Jadeja, make Ojha open and keep and let MSD know it is now or never for him as captain. The problem is it wont happen as the ailment that affects the team is also what affects rest of Indian cricket -- too proud and stubborn to admit that we have a problem.

  • on August 10, 2014, 20:04 GMT

    I am happy that India lost rather than getting saved by the rain Gods because that would again have helped BCCI push things under the carpet. It is a known fact that Dhoni is a poor test captain and in fact doesn't even deserve a place in the test team. With Srinivasan out of them helm, I hope someone does have the spine to call a spade a spade and takes an authoritative decision of bringing in fresh leadership as far as tests are concerned. Someone who has the wherewithal to think out of the box and be aggressive in their approach and not subside into their shell at the first sight of offensive from the opposition.

  • on August 10, 2014, 19:59 GMT

    It is hard to see these players achieving the greatness of the likes of Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly and Co. There is no doubt about their talent, but they don't seem to play out of their skin to win or save the game. Even Gambhir had a marathon innings in NZ during 2010 to save the game which led to the series win. For all their skills and athleticism, the test team does not show the same caliber of their predecessors. Dhawan and Kohli have been worked out by English bowlers. They don't seem to be bothered by the fact that they get out in the same fashion over and over again. Indian cricket team is moving back into early 90's situation again.

  • crindo77 on August 10, 2014, 19:54 GMT

    Yup 0-4,0-4,0-1,0-1,1-2, and the process continues. Need to stop processing further. Very interesting article on internet; transcripts of Dhoni's post match conferences after the losses since Lords 2011. You cannot tell which match each is from. Same cryptic drivel in the form of process and more process.

  • on August 10, 2014, 19:42 GMT

    Please let Sir Jadeja, who can neither Bat or Bowl outside Sub-continent, rest and give Rohit Sharma a chance. But as Jadeja plays for CSK which means he is bound to get another 4-5 chances. I still do not understand the logic of playing Ashwin and Jadeja together in playing 11. Do they qualify because both are from CSK. Drop Jadeja and keep Ashwin atleast he can bat better than Sir.

  • ABKhanISB on August 10, 2014, 19:28 GMT

    India can still fight and try to win the next test, only if England drops 10 out of its 11 players.

  • on August 10, 2014, 19:18 GMT

    What is Jadeja doing in the team? He does not belong to Test Arena at all. His career will finish once Dhoni resigns from Test captaincy.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:59 GMT

    Will somebody go and tell Dhoni on his face that why is he preferring Jadeja against all odds. He is neither a batsman nor a wicket taking bowler. He is just a liability on India team. Dhoni is just insulting Indian fans by selecting Jadeja who can just score 5 to 10 runs and not capable of taking wickets outside sub continent.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on August 10, 2014, 18:55 GMT

    It's times like this I'm very glad I'm not a betting man; I would have thrown everything down for the draw. Yes the weather forecast in U.K. is dubious at best, but when half the game time has been consistently predicted lost to rain for quite some time (our very own Arun Bose was already predicting a washout during the previous game), you'd have thought/hoped that either team (let's face it - could just as easily have been England that capitulated) could have held out for the draw.

    It's all about how/if India can bounce back next game now. That will be the ultimatum of this series. 3-1, 2-2 and 2-1 all equally possible in my mind.

  • Herath-UK on August 10, 2014, 18:44 GMT

    It was raining & gusty the whole day.The collapse was similar to Cardiff collapse the Sri Lankans had in the previous tour.But to be fair to them it was their first game straight from the IPL but the indians have no such excuse.England a bowler down Ali not the best of spinners the subcontinent teams have it was unbeleivable the indian's collapse if not for being demoralised & panicky for reasons known to them.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:41 GMT

    All the Indian batsmen failed yet you all want Dhoni to go. Yes, he seems tired and should consider stepping down but who should he hand it over to? Kohli who has been utterly arrogant and a failure in this series? Sharma maybe? Who? May be we could bring Sehwag back. Or even Venkatraghavan.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:39 GMT

    Losing 4-0 each in England and Australia couple of years back did not worry the BCCI. These defeats will neither....

  • Herath-UK on August 10, 2014, 18:36 GMT

    Whatever reason India lacked a fighting spirit greatly exhibited by the Sri Lankans.Sri Lanka had much more worse issues off the field with their coach being snatched away right on the beginning of the tour to the very opponents & the Mankad issue & Senanayake being called & not able to be selected to the Tests & what not.But the whole team rallied round with camaraderie.Are their dressing room issues among players in the indian camp one wonders.Need real shake up but for one I think Dhoni needs to continue in his role.

  • vishalthakkar22 on August 10, 2014, 18:35 GMT

    just like Kumble held captaincy for sometime before Dhoni took over, time is ripe for Sehwag to take over for 2 years. Dhoni and some of his CSK team-mates dont make a good Indian test team.

  • Puffin on August 10, 2014, 18:30 GMT

    What might have been with some determined and sensible batting. Surrendering a 200 first innings lead didn't help, to put it mildly, but teams have avoided defeat in such circumstances with the aid of rain before.

    But instead the batting was "pathetic" as Michael Vaughan put it.

  • ZkAneela on August 10, 2014, 18:28 GMT

    Virat Kohli is a flat track bully although he scored hundred in SA but that pitch was also very flat.MSD as a test player and captain has done nothing for India.Jadeja is not a batman nor a bowler.Gambhir has not improved.Pujara is out of form.Rohit and Dhawan also comes in FTB.How India will win???From SA fan.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:24 GMT

    kohli played really well in this series

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:19 GMT

    Well. ..we see similar stories....aren't we used to it by now? ...team india always fail abroad and the graph is ever increasing. ...God knows what is the world's richest board with all the amenities are doing ....how can they impart fighting spirit...

  • Farce-Follower on August 10, 2014, 18:13 GMT

    Dhoni as a captain has been a abject failure, mollycoddled by the board and media for too long. He has pitiable Test cricket instincts and looks very disinterested in this format. Indians deserve better than this bunch of lethargic duds.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:12 GMT

    No that the team has got 2 days extra cant it be possible to squeeze in a 2 day practice game.This is really help some of the Indian batsman and will allow the team to try new bowling combinations

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:12 GMT

    In an ideal world the coach Duncan Fletcher would drag them players by their coattails and take them to Old Trafford and show them what might have been. In current world that we have got, he will probably want to defend them saying 'It was a tough pitch to bat upon'.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:11 GMT

    dhoni is a great character but it has nothing to do with test match captaincy. i think he should resign from test match and most importantly india wont progress in test match unless there will be pitch that offers something to fast bowlers in india..u will never knw wat u cant achieve unless u dnt achieve it :) it is endless loop kinda problem..indian batsmen and bowlers need to practise on such tracks otherwise they will remain beginners on overseas pitches and frustration for indian fans..wen will management realise that v need some bouncy and bowler friendly pitches ??

  • TRAM on August 10, 2014, 18:11 GMT

    Well written & good points. And we know that there many more examples. If the "process" was good, we wont have players who can come in to the team even though they did not prove to be top in the first class cricket. If the process was good we wont have players continuing to play without performing. Most of all, If the "process" was good, the fielding quality would have shown it for sure. The non-diving wicket keeper, the non-diving batsman (when running to his danger end), the close-in fielders standing too deep and not staying low when the ball is hit, etc etc show their will to learn, and their will to win DO NOT EXIST.

    May be they are in some trance doing some meditation even while playing cricket.

    What good is a process if the players dont have the will to improve and win? How many players in the current India team have IMPROVED their skill since they first came to the team? Can we point to ONE?

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:10 GMT

    Please send Duncan Fletcher packing already..? Could anyone tell one good thing he has done to the team? It's been totally downhill since he took over the reigns.. Find another Gary Kirsten or John Wright. Time to groom the youngsters properly!

  • AGilchrist on August 10, 2014, 18:10 GMT

    Agreed that no team can win always. Wins and losses are part and parcel of any game. But the way this test was lost is totally unacceptable. And the sad part of all this is that nothing will change in the setup. The captain and the star players are too strong to be touched by the selectors.

    In the past, test cricket used to be the barometer to attain greatness but sadly in Indian cricket T20 and ODI is the barometer. A good test cricketer can be a good limited over cricketer but not the other way round. It is no good scoring 15-20 hundreds in ODIs, if you cannot survive one session. Despite the so-called bravado and aggression of the younger generation, no one had the gumption to fight it out for just even a single session.

    People like Kohli, Dhawan, Rahane, Sharma and the likes should take a leaf out of Joe Root. He may not be as flamboyant as these but delivers for the team when it matters.

  • AlpineWalker on August 10, 2014, 18:09 GMT

    Dhoni has to go from the test captaincy. We dont' know of any replacement. We might as well lose with a different captain. If the results are the same again and again, we might as well try a different guy and see.

  • Parousia on August 10, 2014, 18:08 GMT

    dhoni needs to retire from test cricket, his game doesnt have the temperment to last in test matches

  • mikkkk on August 10, 2014, 18:08 GMT

    One thing I thought was as shocking as it was telling was Dhonis quip at the after match interview that at least they would have an extra two days off. The bloke just doesn't seem bothered if they lose. The Indian team just seems to be a means to an end for him. I wonder how deep that attitude runs through the team because, by the way they gave up without a fight, it seems it runs very deep.

  • sunny.davera on August 10, 2014, 18:03 GMT

    Bingo!! Very nice article. This whole process oriented approach by Duncan Fletcher, MSD and co. has made the environment so defensive that its difficult to digest the fact that such an indian line up can surrender so easily within a session. It has to do with the mindset and the hunger to stay and fight which sadly is not there in this team any more.

  • pratit on August 10, 2014, 18:01 GMT

    Yeah. utterly stupid display. And God knows when Dhoni will stop uttering such trash as process etc. Whatever the process is,if it involves Ravindra Jadeja as a test cricketer, you know it will never work.

  • on August 10, 2014, 17:57 GMT

    India's top order should have kept that in mind.Virat should have left balls outside off stump.Pujara should have played Moeen of the back foot.Dhoni was playing well and should have rotated strike.These things could have frustrated England.

  • No featured comments at the moment.

  • on August 10, 2014, 17:57 GMT

    India's top order should have kept that in mind.Virat should have left balls outside off stump.Pujara should have played Moeen of the back foot.Dhoni was playing well and should have rotated strike.These things could have frustrated England.

  • pratit on August 10, 2014, 18:01 GMT

    Yeah. utterly stupid display. And God knows when Dhoni will stop uttering such trash as process etc. Whatever the process is,if it involves Ravindra Jadeja as a test cricketer, you know it will never work.

  • sunny.davera on August 10, 2014, 18:03 GMT

    Bingo!! Very nice article. This whole process oriented approach by Duncan Fletcher, MSD and co. has made the environment so defensive that its difficult to digest the fact that such an indian line up can surrender so easily within a session. It has to do with the mindset and the hunger to stay and fight which sadly is not there in this team any more.

  • mikkkk on August 10, 2014, 18:08 GMT

    One thing I thought was as shocking as it was telling was Dhonis quip at the after match interview that at least they would have an extra two days off. The bloke just doesn't seem bothered if they lose. The Indian team just seems to be a means to an end for him. I wonder how deep that attitude runs through the team because, by the way they gave up without a fight, it seems it runs very deep.

  • Parousia on August 10, 2014, 18:08 GMT

    dhoni needs to retire from test cricket, his game doesnt have the temperment to last in test matches

  • AlpineWalker on August 10, 2014, 18:09 GMT

    Dhoni has to go from the test captaincy. We dont' know of any replacement. We might as well lose with a different captain. If the results are the same again and again, we might as well try a different guy and see.

  • AGilchrist on August 10, 2014, 18:10 GMT

    Agreed that no team can win always. Wins and losses are part and parcel of any game. But the way this test was lost is totally unacceptable. And the sad part of all this is that nothing will change in the setup. The captain and the star players are too strong to be touched by the selectors.

    In the past, test cricket used to be the barometer to attain greatness but sadly in Indian cricket T20 and ODI is the barometer. A good test cricketer can be a good limited over cricketer but not the other way round. It is no good scoring 15-20 hundreds in ODIs, if you cannot survive one session. Despite the so-called bravado and aggression of the younger generation, no one had the gumption to fight it out for just even a single session.

    People like Kohli, Dhawan, Rahane, Sharma and the likes should take a leaf out of Joe Root. He may not be as flamboyant as these but delivers for the team when it matters.

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:10 GMT

    Please send Duncan Fletcher packing already..? Could anyone tell one good thing he has done to the team? It's been totally downhill since he took over the reigns.. Find another Gary Kirsten or John Wright. Time to groom the youngsters properly!

  • TRAM on August 10, 2014, 18:11 GMT

    Well written & good points. And we know that there many more examples. If the "process" was good, we wont have players who can come in to the team even though they did not prove to be top in the first class cricket. If the process was good we wont have players continuing to play without performing. Most of all, If the "process" was good, the fielding quality would have shown it for sure. The non-diving wicket keeper, the non-diving batsman (when running to his danger end), the close-in fielders standing too deep and not staying low when the ball is hit, etc etc show their will to learn, and their will to win DO NOT EXIST.

    May be they are in some trance doing some meditation even while playing cricket.

    What good is a process if the players dont have the will to improve and win? How many players in the current India team have IMPROVED their skill since they first came to the team? Can we point to ONE?

  • on August 10, 2014, 18:11 GMT

    dhoni is a great character but it has nothing to do with test match captaincy. i think he should resign from test match and most importantly india wont progress in test match unless there will be pitch that offers something to fast bowlers in india..u will never knw wat u cant achieve unless u dnt achieve it :) it is endless loop kinda problem..indian batsmen and bowlers need to practise on such tracks otherwise they will remain beginners on overseas pitches and frustration for indian fans..wen will management realise that v need some bouncy and bowler friendly pitches ??