Invitational XI v England XI, Tour match, SCG November 13, 2013

Wicketkeeping duo repel England

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CA Invitational XI 271 for 5 (Carters 94*, Nevill 75*) vs England XI
Scorecard

Stuart Broad's location of something like his best form was counterbalanced by largely indifferent displays from Steve Finn and Boyd Rankin as the England tourists were frustrated by Ryan Carters and Peter Nevill on day one of the tour match in Sydney.

Cricket Australia had bowed to ECB pressure to bolster what would have otherwise been a New South Wales Second XI, but the strongest resistance was ultimately provided by two men who would have been playing regardless. Carters and Nevill, each behind Brad Haddin in the NSW wicketkeeping order of preference after moving from Victoria, combined for an undefeated stand of 178 to raise a few questions for the England team director Andy Flower.

Chief among these was how to choose between Rankin, who was tidy without claiming a wicket, and the more profligate but also penetrative Finn as the two had an opportunity to press for the final pace bowling spot in the first Test.

During the 2010-11 Ashes tour, Finn lost his place to Chris Tremlett after claiming regular wickets in the first two Tests but releasing the pressure being built up at the other end by offering liberal helpings of the short and wide. He did so again at the SCG, and not even a sandy, top-dressed outfield could prevent plenty of his deliveries scuttling away to the fence.

Broad's performance was altogether more reassuring, showcasing his speed, bounce and increasing command of the correct lengths for each pitch he encounters. He admitted later to feeling sore in the legs due to the heavy nature of the outfield, but otherwise appears ready for the Gabba.

Graeme Swann appears less so, though he was not helped by a surface that seems to have lost its previous attraction for slow bowlers. There were fewer full tosses than he had delivered rustily in Hobart, and there will need to be fewer still against an Australian batting line-up now stacked with right-handers to counter him.

England's priorities for the match were made clear the moment Cook won the toss and sent the locals in to bat, despite a surface that looked amenable to run-scoring and a refreshingly blue sky after two days of rain which had detracted from the tourists' training. The last place in the bowling attack remains open, and after Tremlett completed the second of his two matches in Hobart it was now the turn of Rankin and Finn to state a claim following jetlagged displays in Perth.

They could take precise cues from Broad, who quickly built up a decent head of steam from the Randwick End while finding the sort of fuller length at which he is most menacing. Aaron Finch was unable to cope, edging an away seamer through to England's Brisbane wicketkeeper-elect Jonny Bairstow, and so maintaining his maddeningly poor first-class record despite increasingly promising limited-overs outings for Australia.

Another to suffer from a similar lurgy is Callum Ferguson, who has never been truly close to Test contention, although equally accomplished when granted the chance to play ODIs. Batting at No. 3 for a team that has at various times been the NSW Second XI, a NSW Invitational XI and ultimately a CA Invitational XI, Ferguson was probably out lbw to Broad a few balls before he was given out in the same fashion, both deliveries seaming back towards the stumps.

Ed Cowan, still without a first-class century since what had seemed a breakthrough innings against South Africa in Brisbane a year ago, made a neat enough start. He lost another partner when Kurtis Patterson followed a Finn ball angled across him and snicked into the England cordon, but then formed the kernel of a decent stand with the older, wiser Ben Rohrer.

They took the hosts to lunch without alarm, but soon afterwards Rohrer fell to a rasping catch at backward point by Michael Carberry, his outstretched right hand stopping a cut shot on what had seemed an inevitable path to the boundary. Next over Cowan fell to another full-blooded but airborne stroke, pulling Finn straight to midwicket, and walked off cursing himself at passing 50 for the 10th time since the Gabba century without once going on to three figures.

At 5 for 85 Cook and Carberry harboured thoughts of batting around tea time, but they were to find doughty adversaries in the form of two men who should be rivals. Nevill and Carters and the Nos. 2 and 3 NSW glovemen behind the Australian vice-captain Haddin, but on this day they became batting allies, presenting straight bats and patient attitudes to prolong the innings.

They played without undue haste but enough scoring intent to prevent England's bowlers from settling, rotating the strike neatly against Swann while capitalising on errors of length from Rankin and Finn. Cook resorted to Jonathan Trott and Joe Root in the overs leading up to the second new ball, but the honeytrap did not distract either batsman. Several figures in NSW cricket expressed surprise when the equivalent WA XI declared their first innings five wickets down two weeks ago, meaning Carters and Nevill are likely to resume with the intent of keeping the Englishmen in the field for some time yet.

Daniel Brettig is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo. He tweets here

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • BiggerAl66 on November 13, 2013, 12:04 GMT

    I think we will see a completely different England team in the tests. The warm up games are a little disappointing, but there are plenty of positives to come from them. I predict a very close series with a scoreline of 2-2 with 1 draw with England retaining The Ashes. Still can't believe Onions wasn't selected as our third seamer options are 3 very similar bowlers. We will have difficulties if Broad or Anderson get injured.

    I have every confidence in Jonny Bairstow if he plays as keeper/batsman. The number 7 slot might just suit him as, hopefully, we will have plenty of runs on the board when he comes out to bat.

    Panesar isn't playing because he is purely there as back up to Swann and will only get a game if Swann gets injured or suffers a dramatic drop in form. No way will we play 2 spinners unless we opt for a 5 man bowling attack which seems unlikely.

  • Mitch1066 on November 15, 2013, 18:53 GMT

    Yeah clearly England got put to sword when they made 400 and they made 303 . Likely end in draw but England played well enough all proper batsmen minus carberry made a score and tail ended added few runs too . Though carberry already made runs . I stand by my earlier comments if England make 400 plus run Aussies are in trouble as they need match or better it .

  • JG2704 on November 14, 2013, 22:14 GMT

    @milepost on (November 14, 2013, 14:57 GMT) Fair call. I guess I must have missed those posts or they were written in invisible ink but I noticed you posted a balanced piece today so I'm counting 2 in 1 day.

  • milepost on November 14, 2013, 14:57 GMT

    @JG2047, there's quite a big difference, at least I hope so! I often say really nice things about England because I am a cricket fan. A number of my favourite players are in the England side and 2005 was my all time favourite series (during which time I lived in England and believe me I copped plenty of stick). The best cricket though, it was awesome. So I accept if people think there's a few barbs here and there but I give credit where it is due - like today the English batsman played well and I won't blame the attack or the pitch - they are very good players. Is that different enough!?

  • Rowayton on November 14, 2013, 11:19 GMT

    Yorkshirepudding - the whole argument about non native players is pretty silly, but I reckon your figures are misleading. Quite a few of Australia's overseas born were 19th century, when a large percentage of the Australian population were immigrants from the UK ( including my ancestors). I'd be interested to see the comparative percentages from 1900 on. By the way, seeing the side is called 'England', did you include Denness, Croft etc as foreign born?

  • JG2704 on November 14, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    @milepost on (November 14, 2013, 7:33 GMT) And how exactly do you differ from FFL? Only difference is one constantly downplays one country and the other another

  • Hammond on November 14, 2013, 8:46 GMT

    @RandyOZ- you are right, Australia will be in plenty of trouble when the real thing starts. Gee, I hope you have your excuses ready. Can't wait to hear them!

  • milepost on November 14, 2013, 7:33 GMT

    @trainstationer is the new lunge huh? At least lunge does taunt us with facts occasionally! Good to see England among the runs, they need to be on this track against this attack. Getting excited, only a week to go. Not keen on getting up at 3 in the morning but.....

  • VivGilchrist on November 14, 2013, 5:39 GMT

    Harris, Siddle, Johnson, Pattinson, Starc, Cummins, Bird, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Faulkner, plus a number yet to debut. I don't get the "no depth" thing.

  • 2MikeGattings on November 14, 2013, 1:13 GMT

    @ xtrafalgarx lol yes in 5 years time England might have a new look attack, and Australia might have lost 6 Ashes series in a row.

    P.S. how old is Ryano? how old is Mitch? how many times have they been sidelined with injury in their careers already? and the youngsters not proving so robust already.

  • BiggerAl66 on November 13, 2013, 12:04 GMT

    I think we will see a completely different England team in the tests. The warm up games are a little disappointing, but there are plenty of positives to come from them. I predict a very close series with a scoreline of 2-2 with 1 draw with England retaining The Ashes. Still can't believe Onions wasn't selected as our third seamer options are 3 very similar bowlers. We will have difficulties if Broad or Anderson get injured.

    I have every confidence in Jonny Bairstow if he plays as keeper/batsman. The number 7 slot might just suit him as, hopefully, we will have plenty of runs on the board when he comes out to bat.

    Panesar isn't playing because he is purely there as back up to Swann and will only get a game if Swann gets injured or suffers a dramatic drop in form. No way will we play 2 spinners unless we opt for a 5 man bowling attack which seems unlikely.

  • Mitch1066 on November 15, 2013, 18:53 GMT

    Yeah clearly England got put to sword when they made 400 and they made 303 . Likely end in draw but England played well enough all proper batsmen minus carberry made a score and tail ended added few runs too . Though carberry already made runs . I stand by my earlier comments if England make 400 plus run Aussies are in trouble as they need match or better it .

  • JG2704 on November 14, 2013, 22:14 GMT

    @milepost on (November 14, 2013, 14:57 GMT) Fair call. I guess I must have missed those posts or they were written in invisible ink but I noticed you posted a balanced piece today so I'm counting 2 in 1 day.

  • milepost on November 14, 2013, 14:57 GMT

    @JG2047, there's quite a big difference, at least I hope so! I often say really nice things about England because I am a cricket fan. A number of my favourite players are in the England side and 2005 was my all time favourite series (during which time I lived in England and believe me I copped plenty of stick). The best cricket though, it was awesome. So I accept if people think there's a few barbs here and there but I give credit where it is due - like today the English batsman played well and I won't blame the attack or the pitch - they are very good players. Is that different enough!?

  • Rowayton on November 14, 2013, 11:19 GMT

    Yorkshirepudding - the whole argument about non native players is pretty silly, but I reckon your figures are misleading. Quite a few of Australia's overseas born were 19th century, when a large percentage of the Australian population were immigrants from the UK ( including my ancestors). I'd be interested to see the comparative percentages from 1900 on. By the way, seeing the side is called 'England', did you include Denness, Croft etc as foreign born?

  • JG2704 on November 14, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    @milepost on (November 14, 2013, 7:33 GMT) And how exactly do you differ from FFL? Only difference is one constantly downplays one country and the other another

  • Hammond on November 14, 2013, 8:46 GMT

    @RandyOZ- you are right, Australia will be in plenty of trouble when the real thing starts. Gee, I hope you have your excuses ready. Can't wait to hear them!

  • milepost on November 14, 2013, 7:33 GMT

    @trainstationer is the new lunge huh? At least lunge does taunt us with facts occasionally! Good to see England among the runs, they need to be on this track against this attack. Getting excited, only a week to go. Not keen on getting up at 3 in the morning but.....

  • VivGilchrist on November 14, 2013, 5:39 GMT

    Harris, Siddle, Johnson, Pattinson, Starc, Cummins, Bird, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Faulkner, plus a number yet to debut. I don't get the "no depth" thing.

  • 2MikeGattings on November 14, 2013, 1:13 GMT

    @ xtrafalgarx lol yes in 5 years time England might have a new look attack, and Australia might have lost 6 Ashes series in a row.

    P.S. how old is Ryano? how old is Mitch? how many times have they been sidelined with injury in their careers already? and the youngsters not proving so robust already.

  • xtrafalgarx on November 14, 2013, 0:29 GMT

    @Train Stationer: Time will tell mate, but at the moment from what i can see, i'd rather be on our side of the fence.

    @Engerland: The truth is,you would be lucky walking on any Australian street and find even a second generation Australian. "We all came here." is the saying in Australia.

  • on November 14, 2013, 0:03 GMT

    o @Train staioner doesn't rank Harris... He was by far the best bowler from both teams in the recent series (as the stats confirm). Clarke wouldn't make the England team? He's past it? Look at his averages. Over the last two years he has averaged better than any of the English batsmen. Unless you are tongue in cheek, you know nothing about cricket. I would only pick Cook, Pietersen Bell, Swann and Borad in a combined team. Haddin can't bat as well as Prior but his keeping in England was far superior and Prior's form is down. anderson was ordinary after trent bridge (as was Siddle to be fair).

  • dunger.bob on November 13, 2013, 23:51 GMT

    @ Train Stationer: "The worrying thing for Australia is that they seem to have nobody coming through" Young Caters seems to be 'coming through' all right. To the tune of 96 n.o. He's a bloke who can't get a run in f/c cricket at the moment. Also, keep your eye on a Qld'er by the name of Chris Lynn. Alex Doolan just needs to tighten up around off stump and he'll be a cracker.

    There's something morbidly fascinating about seeing your side struggle to drag itself up by it's boot straps. It's hard work just staying in the game and getting a win is like pulling your molars out with a pair of fencing pliers. .. Just the same though, the wheel is slowly starting to turn. We can feel it in the air down here.

    Sooner or later we will rise again and when we do we have a tendency to go ALL the way. One of these days mighty England will be a mere bug on our wind screen again.

  • Moppa on November 13, 2013, 23:40 GMT

    Don't really know why the nationality debate came up again. My 2c worth: I apply the 'accent test' to determine whether someone is 'really' a Pom, Australian etc. in cricketing terms. Most sensible fans accept that players are born in many places due to the family circumstances but grow up and learn their cricket in the same country they represent. Examples of these players include: Strauss and Prior for England, and Khawaja, O'Keefe and Andrew Symonds for Australia. On the other hand, the players that 'fail the accent test' are imports that have learnt their cricket elsewhere and don't really represent home-grown talent. KP and Trott are examples of this, along with many many past England players. The only prominent Australian examples are Clarrie Grimmett (1920s!), Kepler Wessels (1980s) and Fawad Ahmed. The Irish Rankin, Morgan etc are a special case as they can't play Test cricket for their native country.

  • YorkshirePudding on November 13, 2013, 22:31 GMT

    All this talk of a united nations side playing for england is tosh.

    In Total 61 "Non-English" players have played for England since the first test in 1877, out of a total of 657 Caps.

    Australia in comparison have fielded 22 players born overseas out of 434 Caps that have been awarded.

    That means 9.3% of all Englands caps have gone to overseas players, and about about 5% of australian test caps.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on November 13, 2013, 22:18 GMT

    Please Bresnan... get well soon! SOS... Either that or England should strongly consider playing two spinners (i.e. forget another seamer - play Panesar instead!). Australia will not have predicted that...

  • JG2704 on November 13, 2013, 22:09 GMT

    jmcilhinney on (November 13, 2013, 9:34 GMT) Hopefully Eng will not struggle so much tomorrow with the ball and can make early inroads. Depending on time , I'd keep the batting order the same (maybe moving KP up a place due to him having the least time out in the middle) and if our openers get 50s they retire out

  • ShutTheGate on November 13, 2013, 22:03 GMT

    @ Train Stationer - I've seen some ridiculously inaccurate comments on this board but I think yours takes the cake. I doubt that even FFL would agree with you.

    I'd love to see you pad up and face our "joke bowlers" as you put it. It could make an interesting couple of minutes on the cricket show which is shown during the lunch break.

    I sincerely hope that the English players share your arrogant attitude, that will give us a great opportunity to catch them off guard.

  • JG2704 on November 13, 2013, 22:03 GMT

    Disappointing day from Eng's point of view after having the hosts 5 down for less than 100. Too many rubbish unbalanced comms from both sets of fans - some regulars/some freshers.

    But

    @Matt Stokes on (November 13, 2013, 11:34 GMT) I agree that our 3rd bowler looks to be a serious weak link from the 3 warm up matches we've seen. There is still hope but when you look at how Broad and Jimmy have performed compared to the others it does look worrying if either get injured.

    Re the top order being out of nick - I'd strongly disagree. Of course pre series form does not equate for similar form in the test arena and our top order (due to weather) have not had as much time out in the middle as they'd have liked but being that our top 5 will likely be Cook,Carberry,Trott,KP and Bell - only one of those players has failed to contribute anything of significance and he has only had 1 innings.

  • RandyOZ on November 13, 2013, 21:33 GMT

    This VIIth string side put England to the sword, they are in big trouble when the real stuff starts

  • Shaggy076 on November 13, 2013, 21:24 GMT

    Cyril_Knight; Im sick of that tired old excuse we didn't play well in England - Just leave it at what it was 3-0 to England, each team was prepared for the series and performed to there maximum for what the opposition let them. Im sick of hearing but we didn't bat well, all credit should go to the bowlers.

  • Shaggy076 on November 13, 2013, 21:20 GMT

    Train Stationer ; Three of those four have a average very similar to your best in Anderson. Harris just averaged 19 against England in England and was clearly the best bowler of the entire series - calling him a joke you have just lost all credibility.

  • No_1_again on November 13, 2013, 21:19 GMT

    Train Stationer on (November 13, 2013, 20:13 GMT): Better stay on your feeding bottle. WHen did you stat watching cricket. Did you follow last ashes, we lost because of our batsmen not due to bowlers. We have bowlers to take 20 wickets. Only Bell made the difference.

  • CodandChips on November 13, 2013, 20:59 GMT

    @Train Stationer grow up. You can't honestly think Clarke wouldn't get into our side. Slot him in at 5 and Bell 6. Also I'd take Harris and Siddle over Broad & unknown lanky. I also would consider Haddin over Bairstow.

    Also Starc and Pattinson are good prospects for Aus, fitness permitting.

  • jb633 on November 13, 2013, 20:37 GMT

    @Englishfan, I hear you mate. I have similarly not bought into the sentiment that this will be a repeat of the last tour down under. Our bowling attack on flat wickets was woeful in New Zeland and I have not seen anything from this tour to suggest we have changed that. It will be very tight all series I think. No clear favourite at this stage.

  • on November 13, 2013, 20:13 GMT

    @xtrafalgarx

    Australia don't have a bowling attack capable of taking 20 wickets

    harris, siddle, starc and patto are joke bowlers

    The worrying thing for Australia is that they seem to have nobody coming through

    This is a poor team that looks like getting worse , not better

    Not a single Aussie would make the England team, not even clarke . he's past it

  • Englishmanabroad on November 13, 2013, 19:53 GMT

    I tend not to make predictions. I prefer to take each match, regardless of format, as it comes.

    Obviously, We hope from the best from our team, but often, rather than cheering for them to win, we find ourselves simply hoping that they don't lose, or hoping that the rain will stop, or start, depending on the situation.

    Regardless, the real beauty of the game is the unpredictability of it (which is why I dont think much of predictions.) How many people watched the end of the Pakistan/SA ODI last week. Pakistan coasting to an easy win (50 off 40 balls and 5 wickets standing) 10 balls and 4 wickets later, they were fighting for survival (a fight they lost).

    That is what its all about. Whole games can turn in literally minutes. So keep your predictions. I'll just wait for the games.

  • Front-Foot-Lunge-Needs-A-Hug on November 13, 2013, 19:20 GMT

    This whole nationality thing is silly. Of course you change nationality. Can you really change you allegiance? I don't think so. Either way, we should respect the players that turn out for their chosen country without question.

  • Engerland on November 13, 2013, 19:16 GMT

    Posted by Front-Foot-Sponge on (November 13, 2013, 17:11 GMT)

    May be England could draft in one of the keepers that punished them with the bat today? Then us Aussies could really dominate your English/South African/Irish/possibly Australian 11. Lol, good times!

    --------

    You do realise that in the last few years Australia have had players born in Pakistan, Portugal, NZ and ENGLAND don't you?? And of those several had no Australian heritage whatsoever, but qualified purely on residency? Did you know this? Are you a cricket fan at all?

  • CodandChips on November 13, 2013, 18:16 GMT

    @FFS "your English/South African/Irish/possibly Australian 11" is a really naive and disresctful comment. Are you honestly saying that nationalities is purely on birth alone? In that case you can wave goodbye to Khawaja, Ahmad, Henriques. Also what about Symonds? O Keefe?

    I have some freinds who were born in various countires, moved here before/during secondary school, so consider themselves half and half (bear in mind they are in late teens). The same applies to players like Matt Prior and Gary Ballance.

    I have friends born here who support their parents' country in sport. KP, IJLT, Kieswetter, Lumb and Compton all have an English parent (or two), and were born with English passports.

    Rankin is northern Irish, so it's highly conceivable he was born with a Brtiish Passport.

    Morgan made a decision as a late teenager to come to England and play test cricket (interview with Nick Knight).

    All countries have used/ do use players born in other countries. Don't be so naive.

  • milepost on November 13, 2013, 18:06 GMT

    So much love, so little time to prepare. Where is Onions, Compton and your best keeper whose name I forget? A long hot summer, what a bummer.

  • CodandChips on November 13, 2013, 18:05 GMT

    Feeling very nervous and concerned. Our batting looks decent, but Carberry is unproven and if Pietersen gets injured, Balance or Stokes may have to make their debuts. Bairstow is obviously not as good as Prior, but has experience, and Prior wasn't exactly scoring many runs. I'd hope that Cook and Trott are good enough to counteract the Aussies' plans from the summer.

    But bowling is where I am really worried. Anderson was getting less effective as the previous series went on. Broad is unreliable, and can go a while without taking a wicket before he produces a match winning spell and everyone forgets that he struggled. Rankin, who I assumed England would pick, has had a hard time. Finn, who is my personal favourite, has the tendency to be wayward. Tremlett is bowling medium pace at the moment (a bit like Broad this time last year). With the Aussies on the way up, this series could be a lot closer than many England fans are willing to admit, and it is one in which I fear we could lose.

  • Mitch1066 on November 13, 2013, 17:27 GMT

    I question sound thinking of having naturally aggressive batsmen opening test matches as by there nature they take risks which give chances to get them out . I think Watson and Warner possibly be better as counter attacking lower order batsmen . Sure Australian selectors have a plan

  • Mitch1066 on November 13, 2013, 17:20 GMT

    I think with two series so close together that Australian bowling plans could be found out by English batsmen. People who claim Australia have better bowlers then ones selected by England I divulge to selectors who know more about cricket then fans do . I think for Australia to win they need bat well with bowling well and get competitive score in 450 range . I think personally the pitches in England apart from old Trafford were bowling pitches hence why both bowling units did well. However I hear Australian pitches offer stuff for both bowling and batting so I reserve judgement on England batting / Australian bowling til after the series . However I still question the depth of Australian batting when going get tough only got one true class batsmen and couple of battler in rogers and hadden rest all set on potentional

  • Front-Foot-Sponge on November 13, 2013, 17:11 GMT

    May be England could draft in one of the keepers that punished them with the bat today? Then us Aussies could really dominate your English/South African/Irish/possibly Australian 11. Lol, good times!

  • xtrafalgarx on November 13, 2013, 15:53 GMT

    @Cyril_Knight: Another sentiment i do not quite understand. You can say the English batsmen didn't play to their ability, which i concede to some degree as they all batted below their average except Bell and maybe Pietersen.

    But is it that they didn't play well, or only played as well as they were allowed to by the Australian bowlers? I think by the end of this series, we will find out for sure what's what. If the English batsmen "don't fire" again, then it is safe to say that the Australian bowlers have kept them tied down.

  • Jaffa79 on November 13, 2013, 15:49 GMT

    The 3rd seamer spot is a problem for England and I think it could be a crossroads for England; Finn has been around for 4 years now and needs to start developing consistency. If he doesn't step up, do England start looking elsewhere? It is clear this is last chance saloon for Tremlett, who is well down on pace and Rankin is hardly a spring chicken. I hope Finn does a 'Jimmy' and has an amazing second half of his career. If England don't have 5 bowlers or even 4 reliable ones, then it does put extra emphais on Broad and Jimmy and that is when injuries occur. Same goes for Aus; Watson bolwed some excellent containing spells for Aus last summer and it is important he and Siddle can do a holding job. Mind you, if MJ misfires as we all know he can and/or Watson does not bowl, then Harris would be overburdened and that could spell the end for him.

  • Cyril_Knight on November 13, 2013, 15:24 GMT

    Australia have to produce quick pitches with life in them if they are to stand any chance of winning 3 Tests, but in doing this they are playing into the hands of Anderson and Broad, and even giving assistance to the weak third seamer, the big tall bowler, whoever is picked.

    Add to this, if England's batters play to their full ability, which they didn't in the summer, then we must be looking at similar results to the last two series. 3-1 or 4-1 for England.

  • Bamber on November 13, 2013, 15:04 GMT

    @Matt Stokes. Sorry mate, couldn't disagree more about the top order. Cook, Carberry, Trott and Bell have all made hundreds in the warm-ups so far; KP rarely does it in warm-ups but saves it for the big stage so that's the Top 5 sorted. The problem is the middle order, Joe and Jonny. JR's class but JB's got something to prove. The 3 big lads have all been inconsistent but they all have talent, Yes, even Tremlett. Now they just need to show it and grab their opportunity. With the odd recent Aussie weather, our boys should feel right at home - conditions 'like Durham in April'... I fervently hope and believe the series will be a good contest with England emerging victorious, weather permitting!

  • xtrafalgarx on November 13, 2013, 15:04 GMT

    @Train Stationer: This is a sentiment that i fail to understand. Where do the English supporters get the idea that their second string bowlers are better than the Austraian ones? The way I see it, Rankin would be 9/10th in our pecking order, Tremlett wouldn't be in our side, he is past it, Finn would be in and out.

    On top of all of this, isn't Tremlett 32? Rankin 29 and yet to make a debut? Bresnan late 20's? Tredwell, Panesar are in their 30's as well as Swann and Anderson. In 5 years, you guys will have lost all of your fire power and the only youngsters i have heard of in England are Overton, Topley, Mills and Kerrigan who are decent but nowhere near what you guys would need.

    To me, i say we have 5 first choice bowlers injured yet we are still able to put up a decent bunch of guys capable of taking 20 wickets. Although they are ageing, by the time they are gone we have already blooded the likes of Pattinson,Cummins,Starc,Hazelwood and they should come on in the next five years..

  • on November 13, 2013, 14:09 GMT

    id pick onnions instead of tremlet in this squad how can you have a man taking if i remember well 70 odd wickets in the county championship and not get selected, he may not have extrem pace but look at phillander he proved you dont need pace just consistency and a bit of seam movment tremlet havent done enough for me to pick him, he didnt even play the full season my memory isnt the best but i think he played 2 6 innings and took 72 wickets how can u ignore that

  • on November 13, 2013, 14:09 GMT

    @Matt Stokes A couple of big hundreds from the openers seem to indicate that the top-order is in splendid knick

    Our bowling depth is such that our reserves are stronger than the Australian first string

    Tremlett is a world-class 3rd seamer who would be a shoe-in for any international side

  • landl47 on November 13, 2013, 14:05 GMT

    England's bowlers needed the work, so it's not a bad thing that Nevill and Carters showed some backbone and dug in. Broad looks to have found a good length and rhythm. At the moment the third seamer position seems to be a toss-up between Rankin and Tremlett's steady but no wickets and Finn's wickets but poor economy. If there was any chance of the ball turning at the Gabba I'd go for steady, but since Aus seems to have decided that spinners aren't worth bothering about when it comes to preparing wickets (tell me again that Aus doesn't doctor wickets- I've never known the SCG not to take spin until now) then Finn might be the pick. He does bowl better the more he plays, so that might not be a bad thing.

    So far the 3 wickets England has been played on have been roads, and slow roads at that. I hope that's not what we'll get in the tests or it's going to be dull watching.

  • milepost on November 13, 2013, 13:08 GMT

    @Matt Stokes, good common sense comments. There's no depth, in fact there's not even a third seamer and considering Broad has a knack for going 40-50 overs at a time without a wicket there should be concerns. It is simply not enough to 'believe' they are a better team. I think it will be a good contest.

  • CricketChat on November 13, 2013, 12:53 GMT

    Convinced Finch and Rohrer are not made for longer version of the game. They should be considered for ODIs and T20s going forward.

  • 2.14istherunrate on November 13, 2013, 12:51 GMT

    I think this game really highlights the status to which tourist games have fallen-old timers talk a lot about the tourist games being a highlight of the year for the non international players, and world wide it would be good if that was revisited. We do it too, to be fair. Actually our counties even do it to our own team-viz Essex. It would have been better if we had played NSW at near full strength, though mention of Ben Cutting in despatches as a possible Test candidate would suggest the cupboard for bowling is not that full for OZ. The score here too might suggest our dearth of real quality; get well soon, Tim. However so long as Broad is on song there is something to be thankful for and if the rest are being challenged now then it is just as well. Who will get 3rd seamers spot is I suspect a matter of choosing the least unimpressive candidate. Rankin is at least tidy, and I have yet to be convinced by Finn now. Re Swann and the right handers:has he not already won the battle?

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 12:37 GMT

    @ Chris_P on (November 13, 2013, 11:09 GMT) fully agree re nevill the problem with throwing a name in the ring on this site is "statistics" champions are show ponies, they do not play shield games unless it is an important game But look at Bailey the show pony loves an audience, but everyone says he will fail his average is only 30 or so in front of 1000 people at a shield game , they never take into account the showpony effect.

  • jmcilhinney on November 13, 2013, 12:04 GMT

    @SamRoy on (November 13, 2013, 10:44 GMT), actually, the England attack may be looking better in 5 years, or at least more complete. The loss of Anderson in a few years will hurt because he has become one of the best bowlers in the world but hopefully Broad will continue to improve his consistency and take over as spearhead. There are a number of young fast bowlers in the County Championship who should be well and truly ready for international duty by that time. Probably the biggest question is who will replace Swann. Simon Kerrigan is a much better bowler than he showed in his awful debut but even if he does prove to be international quality he will still have trouble living up to Swann's record, which has been a major factor in England's success.

  • on November 13, 2013, 11:34 GMT

    I'm a big England fan but I have zero confidence ahead of this series - the top order remain woefully out of nick, we lack a decent 3rd seamer and prior/kp injuries are a concern.

    The lack of depth in the squad is worrying.

    Many lean years lie ahead.

  • Chris_P on November 13, 2013, 11:09 GMT

    @SamRoy. Peter Nevill's first class average is 40, not 20, & he continually gets a start in the NSW side as batsman, even when Haddin plays, so it's not like he is a bunny. Carters is an extremely talented young keeper batsman who scored 68 against England in his FC debut as a teenager last tour. He is also not a bunny with the bat. It looked a good hit-out for the Pom opening bowlers initially, but Finch is totally out of form at first class level. Cowan did all the hard work & tossed it away, again. I'll duck down for the last session tomorrow to have a look at England batting.

  • Rowayton on November 13, 2013, 11:06 GMT

    @dunger.bob - the report says that Carters moved from Victoria which is truish. In fact, he is a Canberra boy - played with Nathan Lyon at Wests in Canberra, before going to Melbourne to try to break into the big time. He is a fine young player, good enough to make it as a batsman without the wicketkeeping.

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 11:03 GMT

    @ SamRoy on (November 13, 2013, 10:44 GMT) That's the secret Samroy they do not know how to bat, it completely bamboozals the bowler.

  • Jagger on November 13, 2013, 11:03 GMT

    I cross my fingers, toes, arms and legs for Finch every time he bats. Of all the batsmen in the world, Rohit Sharma scored an ODI double century against Australia. I am now convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt. Had Bradman played limited overs cricket, they wouldn't have got him out.

  • SamRoy on November 13, 2013, 10:44 GMT

    I still don't get how people averaging in their high 20s are getting 50+ scores against English attack continuously. Ok it is not their best I know but what happens if Anderson and/ or Broad gets injured? I am not too sure how good the English attack will be in another 5 years time. I have a sneeking feeling that Australia are going to win back the Ashes if they get their team right (even though this Australian Team except Clarke really doesn't know how to bat).

  • on November 13, 2013, 10:41 GMT

    Why isn't Panesar getting a game?

  • Front-Foot-Lunge-Needs-A-Hug on November 13, 2013, 10:38 GMT

    @Geoffreysmother, we all knew Bairstow was a keeper, what is beyond doubt now is that he is not a test quality batsman. I mean people can argue all they want about it but the fact is he misses balls on the stumps, frequently, and that is normally a bit of a giveaway about a players ability. The idea of having to iron out such a flaw with a professional cricketer is absurd. Oh well it's one less wicket for the Aussies to worry about. Finn, Trenlett, Rankin.... does it matter, your two seamers will sort it out right?

  • azzaman333 on November 13, 2013, 10:34 GMT

    Desperately hoping England pick Finn to offset our Johnson blunder.

  • jb633 on November 13, 2013, 10:28 GMT

    None of the three big quicks England have on this tour should be near the test team. Ever since the rule change about hitting the stumps becoming a no ball Finn has been dross. Rankin bowls far too short and Tremlett is military medium. I can see any option we choose leaking a lot of runs during the ashes.

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 10:27 GMT

    @ dunger.bob on (November 13, 2013, 9:49 GMT) I have been buying carters watches up the cross for years. I reckon if you think they did not try to break that partnership..... I will get you a watch.

  • GeoffreysMother on November 13, 2013, 10:20 GMT

    Presumably those people who express surprise that Bairstow was tidy behind the stumps are not aware he is a wicketkeeper who has kept wicket for four years in County cricket and keeps to a varied range of pretty good and some erratic bowlers - Sidebottom, Starc ( left hand seam) , Brooks and Patterson (right hand seem), Plunket (right hand erratic), Rashid (leg spin) , Rafiq (off spin) .

    Davis, Kieswetter and Foster are really his only challengers but with the ball so rarely finding the edge of opponents bats at Surrey, Essex and Somerset this year we really don't know how good they are at the moment.

  • dunger.bob on November 13, 2013, 9:49 GMT

    I'll fess up, I've never heard of Carters. Nevill of course but not Carters.

    5/271 is still a good days bowling and I wonder if there might have been some throttling back when they got to 5/85. It's hard to imagine they seriously couldn't bust the partnership. .. If they really couldn't, they might have a few problems they didn't count on.

    Nevill looks to be in pretty good touch. He batted well in the Ryobi as well whenever I saw him.

  • Mitty2 on November 13, 2013, 9:42 GMT

    Oh and England, please select Finn. I watched some of the live stream and his rhythm as usual was pretty terrible. He just lacks certainty in his run up and bowls far too short. Expensive as always. he really needs to be left to work in the CC, he doesn't look up to it. More inaccurate than MJ atm. Rankin was tight, which Eng need for their third seamer as shown by Bresnan's success in the last Ashes, and with his height and more than good enough pace, he'll always have large wicket taking abilities. Tremlett's not quick enough and isn't in form, Rankin's the only one who ticks enough boxes so unless Eng stupidly want Stokes as their third seamer or to have two spinners, Rankin has to play, and good luck to him.

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 9:39 GMT

    I said this on the Pietersen story thinking it was the report but I have to repeat myself, why bowl! playing on Aussie pitches is so different to the UAE, India or the breathtakingly slow wickets of England last ashes ( plenty of bad weather ) so unless the pitches had some life at home against the saffers 18 months ago they have no form on all types of bowler helpful wickets (swan excepted obviously) so you would think that with Anderson Broad and Swans experience they would give the rookie opener, rookie keeper and out of form Trott along with the injured Pietersen the chance of 2 bats, now that is gone.

  • Mitty2 on November 13, 2013, 9:36 GMT

    I feel this is going to happen in the Ashes a lot like it did with SA last year. Eng will inevitably make the inroads with us as usual being down at 3 for not many, but Clarke and instead of Hussey, Bailey stabilising. That is probably heaping too much pressure on Bailey but he's done it numerous times in ODIs in saving our order and he has the temperament to do it. Anderson and Broad will damage the top order but I feel they have far much less firepower in the middle overs, as showcased by their efforts in NZ recently. These pitches will be roads, and the key for our batting has to be not losing wickets early as that's where Eng will get the upper hand - it's why i've always supported Cowan and why Rogers is a must opening. Handy having less left handers to Swann. The only batsman who Swann did well against who was right handed was had din, who's in terrible form anyhow.

    Good to see Neville scoring runs here as, despite being from NSW, he's got all the attributes.

  • jmcilhinney on November 13, 2013, 9:34 GMT

    Friday's forecast has improved but it looks like they'll be lucky to get a full day in on Saturday. I wonder whether Cook and Carberry will open. It may depend on how long CAIXI bat tomorrow. If they don't then who will? Trott and Bell with KP at #3 maybe? They could open with Root but that may be confusing given that we know that he'll bat down the order in the Test. They'll also want to make sure that Bairstow gets some time in the middle. I reckon Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Root, Cook Carberry. Speaking of Bairstow, the report doesn't mention any blunders with the gloves and he seemed to acquit himself well enough in what I saw of the day. That's a good sign at least, although it's obviously no guarantee of anything come the first Test. Regardless of anything else, I'd like to see him make a score in Brisbane and reassert himself as a contender for a middle-order spot. KP might be leaving one open soon.

  • jmcilhinney on November 13, 2013, 9:26 GMT

    A funny old day it was. The England bowlers came out of the gates well - Broad in particular - but seemed to run out of steam in the afternoon. It's interesting that the report says that the pitch was relatively friendly to batsmen because it looked a little green to me on the CA web feed. It might be a good thing that the two NSW keepers put up a fight because the England bowlers do need some overs before the first Test, although I'm sure that they'd like to have taken another wicket or two. Broad seems to have hit his stride but the 3rd seamer's spot is still up in the air. I don't really see Finn being any more economical than he was last time and he was dropped then but he does seem more dangerous than Rankin at the moment. Fitness permitting, I'm expecting to see Bresnan back for the tour game following the first Test and probably for the second Test as well. A first day pitch after yesterday's rain would not have helped Swann at all but he also got to bowl some much-needed overs.

  • milepost on November 13, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    Another great day for Australia's preparation I think it's fair to say. Broad was very good but he should be. Apparently Bairstow was tidy behind the stumps which is good for England. The others smashed around by a 23 year old with a first class average of 20. Nice work. Bat out tomorrow and let England spend their prep playing checkers in the dressing room for 2 days. There's a test match next week where Australia haven't lost since 1988. No one can predict what will happen but I won't have anyone convince me England will find the supermen inside themselves and roll an Aussie team picked on great form. It will be a test match.

  • milepost on November 13, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    Another great day for Australia's preparation I think it's fair to say. Broad was very good but he should be. Apparently Bairstow was tidy behind the stumps which is good for England. The others smashed around by a 23 year old with a first class average of 20. Nice work. Bat out tomorrow and let England spend their prep playing checkers in the dressing room for 2 days. There's a test match next week where Australia haven't lost since 1988. No one can predict what will happen but I won't have anyone convince me England will find the supermen inside themselves and roll an Aussie team picked on great form. It will be a test match.

  • jmcilhinney on November 13, 2013, 9:26 GMT

    A funny old day it was. The England bowlers came out of the gates well - Broad in particular - but seemed to run out of steam in the afternoon. It's interesting that the report says that the pitch was relatively friendly to batsmen because it looked a little green to me on the CA web feed. It might be a good thing that the two NSW keepers put up a fight because the England bowlers do need some overs before the first Test, although I'm sure that they'd like to have taken another wicket or two. Broad seems to have hit his stride but the 3rd seamer's spot is still up in the air. I don't really see Finn being any more economical than he was last time and he was dropped then but he does seem more dangerous than Rankin at the moment. Fitness permitting, I'm expecting to see Bresnan back for the tour game following the first Test and probably for the second Test as well. A first day pitch after yesterday's rain would not have helped Swann at all but he also got to bowl some much-needed overs.

  • jmcilhinney on November 13, 2013, 9:34 GMT

    Friday's forecast has improved but it looks like they'll be lucky to get a full day in on Saturday. I wonder whether Cook and Carberry will open. It may depend on how long CAIXI bat tomorrow. If they don't then who will? Trott and Bell with KP at #3 maybe? They could open with Root but that may be confusing given that we know that he'll bat down the order in the Test. They'll also want to make sure that Bairstow gets some time in the middle. I reckon Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Root, Cook Carberry. Speaking of Bairstow, the report doesn't mention any blunders with the gloves and he seemed to acquit himself well enough in what I saw of the day. That's a good sign at least, although it's obviously no guarantee of anything come the first Test. Regardless of anything else, I'd like to see him make a score in Brisbane and reassert himself as a contender for a middle-order spot. KP might be leaving one open soon.

  • Mitty2 on November 13, 2013, 9:36 GMT

    I feel this is going to happen in the Ashes a lot like it did with SA last year. Eng will inevitably make the inroads with us as usual being down at 3 for not many, but Clarke and instead of Hussey, Bailey stabilising. That is probably heaping too much pressure on Bailey but he's done it numerous times in ODIs in saving our order and he has the temperament to do it. Anderson and Broad will damage the top order but I feel they have far much less firepower in the middle overs, as showcased by their efforts in NZ recently. These pitches will be roads, and the key for our batting has to be not losing wickets early as that's where Eng will get the upper hand - it's why i've always supported Cowan and why Rogers is a must opening. Handy having less left handers to Swann. The only batsman who Swann did well against who was right handed was had din, who's in terrible form anyhow.

    Good to see Neville scoring runs here as, despite being from NSW, he's got all the attributes.

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 9:39 GMT

    I said this on the Pietersen story thinking it was the report but I have to repeat myself, why bowl! playing on Aussie pitches is so different to the UAE, India or the breathtakingly slow wickets of England last ashes ( plenty of bad weather ) so unless the pitches had some life at home against the saffers 18 months ago they have no form on all types of bowler helpful wickets (swan excepted obviously) so you would think that with Anderson Broad and Swans experience they would give the rookie opener, rookie keeper and out of form Trott along with the injured Pietersen the chance of 2 bats, now that is gone.

  • Mitty2 on November 13, 2013, 9:42 GMT

    Oh and England, please select Finn. I watched some of the live stream and his rhythm as usual was pretty terrible. He just lacks certainty in his run up and bowls far too short. Expensive as always. he really needs to be left to work in the CC, he doesn't look up to it. More inaccurate than MJ atm. Rankin was tight, which Eng need for their third seamer as shown by Bresnan's success in the last Ashes, and with his height and more than good enough pace, he'll always have large wicket taking abilities. Tremlett's not quick enough and isn't in form, Rankin's the only one who ticks enough boxes so unless Eng stupidly want Stokes as their third seamer or to have two spinners, Rankin has to play, and good luck to him.

  • dunger.bob on November 13, 2013, 9:49 GMT

    I'll fess up, I've never heard of Carters. Nevill of course but not Carters.

    5/271 is still a good days bowling and I wonder if there might have been some throttling back when they got to 5/85. It's hard to imagine they seriously couldn't bust the partnership. .. If they really couldn't, they might have a few problems they didn't count on.

    Nevill looks to be in pretty good touch. He batted well in the Ryobi as well whenever I saw him.

  • GeoffreysMother on November 13, 2013, 10:20 GMT

    Presumably those people who express surprise that Bairstow was tidy behind the stumps are not aware he is a wicketkeeper who has kept wicket for four years in County cricket and keeps to a varied range of pretty good and some erratic bowlers - Sidebottom, Starc ( left hand seam) , Brooks and Patterson (right hand seem), Plunket (right hand erratic), Rashid (leg spin) , Rafiq (off spin) .

    Davis, Kieswetter and Foster are really his only challengers but with the ball so rarely finding the edge of opponents bats at Surrey, Essex and Somerset this year we really don't know how good they are at the moment.

  • rickyvoncanterbury on November 13, 2013, 10:27 GMT

    @ dunger.bob on (November 13, 2013, 9:49 GMT) I have been buying carters watches up the cross for years. I reckon if you think they did not try to break that partnership..... I will get you a watch.

  • jb633 on November 13, 2013, 10:28 GMT

    None of the three big quicks England have on this tour should be near the test team. Ever since the rule change about hitting the stumps becoming a no ball Finn has been dross. Rankin bowls far too short and Tremlett is military medium. I can see any option we choose leaking a lot of runs during the ashes.