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Integrity at stake over doosra - Inverarity

Daniel Brettig

October 26, 2012

Comments: 186 | Text size: A | A

Graeme Swann celebrates after taking a wicket, Sri Lanka v England, Super Eights, World Twenty20, Pallekele, October 1, 2012
John Inverarity highlighted Graeme Swann as a conventional spinner who has had plenty of success in recent years © AFP
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Nothing less than Australian cricket's integrity is at stake over the question of whether or not young spin bowlers should be taught to deliver the doosra, the national selector John Inverarity believes.

As a burgeoning flock of overseas spinners capitalise on the ICC's rules allowing 15 degrees of flex and thus the kind of flicked delivery required to bowl the offspinner's "other one", Inverarity said Cricket Australia needed to stay true to its previously stated view that the doosra would not become part of the spin coaching lexicon down under.

This trenchant position does not reflect a growing attitude among Australian players, particularly those who took part in this year's World Twenty20 in Sri Lanka, that the textbook approach to spin bowling is less effective, particularly in the shorter formats on the subcontinent. The T20 captain George Bailey said as much on his return from the tournament, but Inverarity disagreed.

"The question is being asked now about 'do we develop the doosra bowlers or not'. That's a question of integrity for Cricket Australia. I don't think we do," Inverarity told an Australian Cricket Society lunch in Melbourne. "I just think it's a serious issue, and I think we've got to keep our integrity and teach our bowlers to bowl properly."

At a 2009 spin summit at the Centre of Excellence in Brisbane, slow bowling coaches including the late Terry Jenner and Ashley Mallett were unanimous that the doosra should not be taught because they felt it cannot be delivered legally. Inverarity said he was happy for the doosra to be bowled legally, but said its future exponents in Australia needed to be tested to ensure they fell within the 15 degrees now legislated.

"I'm all for them learning it, but it's got to be within the rules. I think the integrity of the game, the integrity of our Australian cricket heritage is important," he said. "We've had some wonderful bowlers with different grips, Max Walker bowling how he did, Jeff Thomson how he did, Jack Iverson, Johnny Gleeson. I'm all for that, but we'll always run a measure over them to make sure they're bowling legitimately. I'd love to see someone bowling differently, but we'd scrutinise them to make sure they're bowling properly."

"I'm all for them learning it (the doosra), but it's got to be within the rules. I think the integrity of the game, the integrity of our Australian cricket heritage is important"

The question of whether a bowler's action is legitimate or not when delivering the doosra was far from the front of Bailey's mind on his return home from Sri Lanka. He was quick to suggest the encouragement of unorthodox spin bowlers was a way for Australia to improve on its semi-final appearance at the World T20.

"As a nation we still talk about whether guys have legitimate actions or not and at the end of the day that's really not for us to be arguing about," Bailey said. "If that's the rules and that's how bowlers are bowling now and having success in international cricket then we've got to start developing those players and developing them at 10-11 years of age and we start to have some bowlers who do bowl like [Muttiah] Muralitharan or [Saeed] Ajmal or [Sunil] Narine.

"You're hoping that a few of our spinners were watching the tournament [World T20] and seeing the type of spinners that were having success. I think the way our coaching system is set up it's going to be tough for some spinners to get through because the way a lot of the spinners who have had success bowl in the subcontinent, you're probably not going to be playing much cricket in Australia if you bowl like that. There's a balancing act there."

How long Australia can continue to be puritanical about the development of spin bowlers is a matter for debate, particularly as CA's quest to diversify the game should encourage the emergence of a greater bevy of slow bowlers of Asian or subcontinental backgrounds.

For now, Inverarity is convinced that the orthodox path is best, holding up the example of Graeme Swann, much as Shane Warne did earlier this week.

"Swann does very well, Ashley Mallett was a terrific bowler, Bruce Yardley was a terrific bowler, Tim May was a terrific bowler, and there were never any doubts about them," he said. "They didn't bowl doosras."

Daniel Brettig is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo. He tweets here

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Posted by Rohan_K on (October 29, 2012, 8:52 GMT)

If Micheal Clarke can nick a ball to first slip and stand there for the umpire to give him out, isn't that a breach of so called Integrity where he knows he is out but wants to wait until the umpire gives him. Similarly if a bowler feels he has bent the arm more the 15 degrees( cannot measure in a match) should he go to the umpire and admit it and ask for a no-ball. Its something Aussies cant have post Macgill - A good spinner...This is why the fuss.

Posted by Dhumper on (October 29, 2012, 0:29 GMT)

Mate you have a choice. You can teach your bowlers on the art of doosra now or live without this amazing delivery. Eventually you will end up teaching them one way or the other. Long live Saqlain the inventor..and now Ajmal the Jadoogar.

Posted by Vikum72 on (October 28, 2012, 23:25 GMT)

@mixters on (October 28 2012, 10:16 AM GMT): the 15 degree tolerance was established, not to accommodate spin bowling or one type of delivery as you seem to suggest, but it was scientifically proven that this is the limit that anyone could flex without being detected by the human eye. And it is a misconception that only spinners or doosra bowlers flex close to 15 degrees, even fast bowlers or medium phase bowlers who people think have flawless action could also come close to this.

Posted by jay57870 on (October 28, 2012, 10:33 GMT)

Just as the word "doosra" suggests, John Inverarity is talking out of both sides of his mouth! Especially the wrong side, the "other one"! Nothing illegal though about double-speak. Politicians do it all the time. Except that it sounds so phony with his "integrity at stake" sermon. Or maybe John's confused. Perhaps he's flash-backing to fellow Aussie Greg Chappell's "underarm" bowling episode in 1981. That's when captain Greg ordered brother Trevor to deliver the last ball underarm to prevent NZ from scoring a 6 to tie the ODI match. Yes, the "gutter ball" slid swimmingly - to borrow a "doosra" phrase from the (other) bowling alleys - and Oz won! The action was legal at the time, notwithstanding the "most disgraceful" controversy it created. Soon after it was banned in limited overs cricket by ICC for being "not within the spirit" of the game. So maybe John's wistfully wishing the now legal "doosra" will be banished for good by re-igniting the "integrity" controversy! Nice try, John!

Posted by   on (October 28, 2012, 10:31 GMT)

Well unorthodoxy has paved the way for many exciting inventions in the sporting history.One woman bowled an overarm bowl because of her long skirt gave rise to the standard cricket delivery.No one questioned her intergrity. Rugby was invented because during a football match no one could kick the ball due to poor weather conditions.No one questioned their integrity either.Why this question of integrity when something come up from the sub continent. Give it time. In twenty years time it will be in coach manuals and will be a must skill to be developed in competitive cricket. Don't waste time arguing about this as everyone has the freedom to follow what they want and believe.

Posted by mixters on (October 28, 2012, 10:23 GMT)

@screamingeagle Dan Cullen who played some ODIs for Australia had a doosera but in the post Warne era the pitches in Australia dont turn so much anymore like the ones in Asia. So he became inefective like most fingerspinners bowling in Australia even the good ones. He cant even get a game for his local team these days so being able to bowl the doosra is great only on a pitch that takes turn it would seem!

Posted by mixters on (October 28, 2012, 10:16 GMT)

Over the years the Lords of cricket have changed many rules, the question I ask myself is have they been for a specific tactic like the old leg theroy or the bouncer rule. In the past they have all been to improve the game. Was the 15 degree rule change for the good of all of cricket? I honenstly cant make up my mind if it will or has made the game better. I love great spin bowling I love great fast bowling I love Great swing bowling. This rule change only seems to benefit one type of bowling. I would like to here other opinions on this Gentelmen?

Posted by screamingeagle on (October 28, 2012, 9:56 GMT)

What would we do if we did not have such men of integrity in Aussie cricket? I hope some Aussie will bowl a doosra and then we get an amended definition of integrity.

Posted by Meety on (October 28, 2012, 9:17 GMT)

@ mixters on (October 28 2012, 04:15 AM GMT) - good comment. The good news is, within a few years (already available & potentially trialled) is some technology that will enable on-field analysis. I would imagine it would lead to players with suspect actions being required to wear the probes during a game. The technology I am led to believe is less obtrusive than strapping. @Lalanka de Silva - just bear in mind also said he needed to be scrutinised & when I first saw his technique I thought there was no way it was legal. I'll abide by the ICCs ruling. Murali the man is a champion.

Posted by Vikum72 on (October 28, 2012, 7:59 GMT)

@Vijay Srinivasan: Mate all bowlers flex. How many do you think bowl without flexing? ABSOLUTE ZERO!!! So with a zero tolerance, there won't be anyone to 'bowl' in cricket. Without 15 degree policy not many will be left. Yes we are fooling ourselves if we are thinking about bowlers without flexing.

Posted by   on (October 28, 2012, 7:20 GMT)

@ Meety, appreciate the supportive comments in regard to Murali, I totally agree with you!!!

Posted by   on (October 28, 2012, 5:35 GMT)

If u want to be the best spinner u can be u have to have some sort of "other one" whether its a doosra or wrong un or even one that just slides on. Watch Ajmal, Murali, mendis and narine and see how many wickets they pick up with the "other one" and its a big chunk of their wickets

Posted by   on (October 28, 2012, 4:38 GMT)

Yup .. I agree Dossra by an offspinner can never be a legitmate ball .. end of the day it is chucking .. this 15 degree flex is alll but nonsense .. we are all just fooling ourselves ...

Posted by mixters on (October 28, 2012, 4:25 GMT)

@getsetgopk thank you for confirming that Ajmal straightens his arm up to 8 Degrees when he bowles I do that every time I throw the ball to. That is Invereritys point he thinks the rule is wrong and so wont accept Aussie bowlers doing it. I may be wrong but is that the deffinition of INTEGRIDY

Posted by mixters on (October 28, 2012, 4:15 GMT)

Saying Australian bowlers wont be developing the doosra is silly yes but sour grapes no. Its just a blind spot and stubborn follow of the rules. The Aussies rubbed out Ian Mekiff and another player at first class level for throwing with actions not even close to 15 degrees. The straight arm action was the intention of cricket in the first place. It is the real difference between throwing and BOWLING. However how to police it the old rule was umpires call benefit of doubt going against the bowler. That interpritation did not work just ask ross emmeson. So they change the rule if Inverarity wants to develope bowlers to the old rule it is not sour grapes just old fashion stubborn and no ones bissness but his own. PS the fastest of them all Jeff Thompson had the all time straightest arm action as I recall. The only advantage to be gained by the 15 degree rule will be spinners

Posted by RogerC on (October 28, 2012, 4:09 GMT)

Similar things were said when Imran Khan and his army were the only ones who bowled reverse swing. I bet an Australian spinner will bowl the doosra very soon and then it will all be within integrity. I only hope they don't include underarm bowling within their integrity rules.

Posted by rickyvoncanterbury on (October 28, 2012, 4:08 GMT)

bats got em, pads got em, sunscreen got it, balls got em,... protractor got it.

Posted by Vikum72 on (October 28, 2012, 3:39 GMT)

There is a saying in my country which says that the crab walk sideways but try to tell its offspring to walk strait. In an era in which it is scientifically proven that most bowlers (phase & spin) do in fact straiten their arm when bowling any type of delivery, John Inverarity single out a particular delivery, thereby singling out the handful of very clever bowlers who could bowl that particular delivery. If his intentions are honorable, Inverarity should ask all Aussie bowlers to wear a cast when bowling!

Posted by gyusuf6 on (October 28, 2012, 0:38 GMT)

I feel dejavu all over again!!!! In late 80's thru mid 90's certain boards questioned the reverse swing as illegal/cheat and all sort of things and now the same boards are calling it an ART. I vividly remember, Wasim Akram and Waqar Yunis were accused of cheating in Newzealand because of their reverse swing. Integrity Issue will go away when Doosra becomes an every spinners(Aus included) weapon and eventually will becaome an ART. My suggestion, get over it and enjoy cricket.

Posted by Meety on (October 28, 2012, 0:03 GMT)

@ getsetgopk on (October 27 2012, 23:24 PM GMT) - so cutting all the garbage out about whether Murali was a chucker or not. The ICC had to do something, the clarifications they used "15 degrees" etc, legitimised what was to the naked eye an illegal action. If you line up all the spinners who have played Test & FC cricket over the last 150 years & watched footage of them (I know we didn't have TV coverage the premise is IF we could), then saw footage of Murali - there is no way anyone could tell me that he shouldn't of been scrutinised. He had to be, the ICC rightly or wrongly has ratified him - now we have the holder of the most wickets in test cricket, the most prolific Test wicket taker of all time, legitimised - as opposed to be labelled a chucker/cheat. BTW - for clarification, I would say Murali would be the last human on this planet to attempt to cheat.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 23:53 GMT)

@getsetgopk on (October 27 2012, 23:24 PM GMT) - you have quoted me - but then went on to add supposition. The context I was talking about when I said "...the rule was there for a very long time before it was changed.." was in relation to saying that rules change all the time. It was an intelligent comment I was replying to, & I tried to answer intelligently. The reason why the rule was changed OR could be said to have been CLARIFIED is that the ICC had a bowler who was destined to become the leading wicket taker the Test world has ever seen, with an action so outside the "normal" that it HAD to be dealt with. I ACCEPT Murali's action has been tested, I ACCEPT that other bowlers have flex in their elbows, I ACCEPT that they have "approved" his technique. Being the person I am (inquisitive) - I would like to see future persons with questionable looking actions tested DURING MATCHES. That is NOT to say people have FUDGED in the past, but are not subject to possible GAME changing scenario

Posted by getsetgopk on (October 27, 2012, 23:24 GMT)

@Meety: You wrote "the point hyclass is making is that the rule was there for a very long time before it was changed" probably to accommodate someone? Well this is a very tricky one and let me explain why. The assumption here is that bowlers before both fast and spinners had actually zero degree bend in their arms and hence no straightening. That is impossible! Because the forearm is attached to the arm through elbow which is quite flexible. Bowlers and fast bowlers especially rotate their arms pretty quickly before releasing the ball, I am 'assuming' there will be atleast a few degrees of elbow flexing. Hope such equipment is made available sooner to monitor every bowler in live match but I am of the opinion that it is not possible to deliver ball with absolutely zero degree of straightening. The bowlers before im sure also had some level of flexing. The 15 degree elbow straightening set by ICC is there for a reason besides, 15 degree hardly gives u any help in extra pace or accuracy.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 23:13 GMT)

For those who cant master the art of bowling doosra.....Grapes are sour

Posted by mak102480 on (October 27, 2012, 23:11 GMT)

In what world was Tim May a "terrific" bowler? That's like saying Darren Sammy is a "terrific" bowler.

Posted by mak102480 on (October 27, 2012, 23:05 GMT)

@Aussie Selection panel: Just because you don't know how to bowl doosras legally, does not mean that they cannot be bowled legally. You need talented spinners to do that.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 22:07 GMT)

Seriously. "The is the law" argument has been used so many times it is ridiculous. Slavery, child labour, sexual discrimination, capital punishment etc. Just because the law says it is OK doesn't mean that it is OK. If the 15 degree regulation is wrong say it is wrong. Just because the 15 degree toleration is the current law doesn't mean it has any moral superiority. It might be allowed within the ICC playing conditions but it does not mean it is right.

Posted by rksr75 on (October 27, 2012, 22:01 GMT)

agree @xylo.. the grapes are sour!!!!!!!

Posted by Chris_P on (October 27, 2012, 20:53 GMT)

You know, when a legend such as Bishen Bedi states the same thing, what say all of you then? This type of bowling (as Hammond would confirm being a junior coach) is stamped out of bowlers at a very early stage, they just don't get through the system with "wonky" actions & believe me I have seen plenty try! So, no, you will never see an Aussie spinner with this action in the near future.

Posted by Chris_P on (October 27, 2012, 20:49 GMT)

When they change rules to accommodate certain "actions" that's where it ends for me. Totally agree with Invers on this. Got no problem with reverse swing if there is no outside objects used to scratch up the ball. Actually never heard any Aussie complaining about that except just when bottle tops were used.

Posted by Chris_P on (October 27, 2012, 20:45 GMT)

re:sledging. This is chatter, talk, spoken to create doubts in batsmen minds. This is NOT abuse. Never has been. I have played & still playing for over 30 years & there has always been sledging. In Sydney grade it was massive, but it is there everywhere. I think possibly only once was there abuse in all that time. It is a human characteristic used in ALL sports. I actually thrive on it, makes me concentrate more, as it does with most people. If you can't handle it, then try playing a solo sport.

Posted by xylo on (October 27, 2012, 19:30 GMT)

One day, an ostrich walked to the beach. And it put its head into the sand, and thought that the world was dark.

Posted by FRRR on (October 27, 2012, 18:26 GMT)

@Navindra Persad ,,, Ajmal is the best mystery bowler because he can bowl the straight one and dosra one without any change of actions and the rotation of ball seems similar in both cases. No one did it before like ajmal, neither saqlain not murli.

Posted by inzisaloos on (October 27, 2012, 17:13 GMT)

@ Jonathan Jono Lane: I would agree with a lot of the comments on here which specify that it would add to the level of knowledge about the mechanics of bowling actions if a method of on-play monitoring could take place in the course of a game. As things stand though, I still prefer lab reports over the subjective decisions of an umpire in the middle. We have seen in the recent past the calamitous repercussions of a bowler like Murali being called for throwing out in the middle, despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. Umpires are not in the best position to know the biological make-up of each and every bowler in order to understand whether or not they are breaking the rules. Appearances can be deceptive as has been proved in the cases of Shoaib, Murali, and Ajmal, to name just three. By all means, as happens already, umpires should be able to raise concerns about bowling actions, but I would rather trust the reports of the scientists as to whether a bowler 'throws' or not

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 15:41 GMT)

LOVING some of the comments made here-> Original (international) bowler to bowl the doosra was Saqlain Mushtaq he never chucked. Murali wasbest of the doosra because he was a freak of nature able to contort his body the way he did esp his shoulder which is why he and only he could have ever bowled the doosra with that much turn and pace without chucking. Others can bowl it legally as well but will not get that turn or pace on the ball. As for Ajmal (my opinion is that he chucks:->but it is legal) the ICC clarified that he has his arm bent when he delivers and according to the rules chucking is if you straighten your arm by 15 degrees, bowls with elbow bent remains bent only straightening by about 10degrees so tech that is legal. Narine bowls his doosra by pitching the ball like it he was playing marble pitch; his action is legal and can be copied by young bowlers if you don't learn this at a very very young age and be willing to get clobbered around for awhile till you master it.

Posted by OttawaRocks on (October 27, 2012, 15:25 GMT)

Am enjoying this. Inverarity's guidance will doom Australia to never producing any spinners over the next 20 years.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 14:18 GMT)

r u serious Mr. Inverarity? I am a big Oz fan, bcoz dey play to win and give the opponents a fair chance, playing positive attacking cricket. But sledging is an integral Oz lexicon. Doosra requires pure skill. The carrom variant is perfectly legal. I can understand such snobbery coming from a pom. But from an Oz is really surprising

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 14:15 GMT)

when a batsman can play a flip shot, why not a spinner bowl a doosra. Yes as many have said here,the degree of angle should be well within the limit. And where does the word integrity come from? Shane warne, one of the greatest, the world cricket have ever seen, used to bowl flippers and wrong ones. When a leg spinner is allowed to try differently, why not an offie?

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 14:06 GMT)

Sour Grapes; who is talking?

Posted by warneneverchuck on (October 27, 2012, 14:00 GMT)

Warne u r the best way ahead than any other spinner in the history of game

Posted by bigwonder on (October 27, 2012, 13:39 GMT)

@seniorgators, you are trying to defend what is clearly mentioned in the article. Either English is your first language or you are a die-hard Australian fan. Here's what article noted "The question is being asked now about 'do we develop the doosra bowlers or not'. That's a question of integrity for Cricket Australia. I don't think we do". This eludes to the fact that Australian cricket sees developing doosra as a lack of integrity. Additionally, the article notes "I'm all for them learning it, but it's got to be within the rules. I think the integrity of the game, the integrity of our Australian cricket heritage is important" . So tell me, why would a normal sane person who understand English not conclude from this article that Cricket Australia sees developing doosra as a lack of integrity. It stops short of saying the countries with doosra bowlers lack integrity for cricket, when the entire cricketing world knows that sledging also shows lack of cricket integrity. I rest my case.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 13:33 GMT)

People really need to define what a 'doosra' is before they start arguing about it. A doosra is the leg break bowled with an off break action using the technique invented by Saqlain. This involves turning the wrist to face the batsmen and in an autonomically normal person requires the bending of the arm. Go to the nets and try it yourself. That is why not all off spinners bowl doosras in the same way all leg spinners can bowl googlies. This flexing of the elbow is easier in bowlers that have locked bent arms such Murali and Ajmal but they still have to deliberately bend their elbows, which is the definition of a throw. The finger flicked 'Inverson' ball or carom ball as bowled by Mendis or Narine is not a throw because the spin on the ball is generated from the finger not the wrist and the elbow like the doosra. The 15 degrees was meant to be a margin of error for unintentional bending, not a licence for bowlers to start throwing. The 15 degree toleration therefore needs to be reduced

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 13:10 GMT)

Question of integrity. First Australians should stop doing sledging then they should look at other integrity options. Sledging is also not related to sportsmen spirit. I could not stop myself laughing out loud after reading the so called INTEGRITY NEWS. Mr John Inverarity should inculcate such culture in Australian Academies that eradicates sledging

Posted by warneneverchuck on (October 27, 2012, 12:58 GMT)

Warne u r the best. Bowlers like murli shud have banned long ago

Posted by cricketcarl on (October 27, 2012, 12:58 GMT)

integrity is helping a little old lady cross the road, bowl the doosra, batsmen switch hit, the doosra is a brilliant counter attack, why should it just be a batsmens game!!

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 12:51 GMT)

See now for sure doosra ll be legal delivery dont worry bhajji n ajmal noone ll complain ur action..

Posted by cricraz on (October 27, 2012, 12:38 GMT)

If we are talking Integrity of the game, How about Australian sledging? or like they want to call it "banter" if disciplined about it. How can a country defend Sledging but has problems with " Doosra" because they cant find bowlers that can bowl it. How are they ok with the " switch hit" or Scoop? Because they have Warner and others who can play these trick shots and hence dont bend the Integrity rule? If a sport has to move forward, change is inevitable and the ones that adapt to change are the winners! It is sheer hypocrisy for Inverarity to use the integrity argument.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 12:31 GMT)

Murali was a checker pure and simple. A lot of nonsense has been stated over the years that he had a deformity in his arm hat didn't allow him to straighten it. This was an assertion that didn't stand up to reality.

One only had to witness Murali fielding in the deep to realise that he was more than capable of straightening his arm. Many a time I witnessed Murali rocket the ball from the deep to the keeper. That is not possible if a person cannot straighten his arm. Try it yourself. Throw a ball with your arm bent throughout the action and you will find that it cannot be done with any real speed. Murali had a fine throw when he needed it which proved that he was indeed capable of straightening his arm.

The change in the rule to 15 degrees was purely a political decision. The careers of a couple of umpires were destroyed. It was a very sad day for cricket. The disease of the bent arm is spreading. Now some want it to be the "natural" bend plus 15 degrees. That means up to 30 degrees.

Posted by AK_25 on (October 27, 2012, 12:18 GMT)

IF Saqlain Mushtaq can bowl doosra with legal action and with integrity...thn whats wrong to learn

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 12:15 GMT)

Just because you dont know how to teach it and are worried about someone from the subcon taking your job, dosent mean you should question the integrity of other cricketers and nations. Maybe australia should stick to teaching the under arm ball.. You know, for the integrity of cricket in australia

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 12:11 GMT)

The "Doosra" cannot be bowled with a legitimate bowling action. Most of the leading off-spinners who expertised with "doosra" have dubious bowling action. I agree with John Inverarity on his views and the Australian Cricket Academy is strictly following this. They do not advocate this stuff to the upcoming spinners. Take the case of our own Erapalli Prasanna, who never tried this stuff and he did develop his own variety along with subtle variations in flight/trajectory etc., Most of the present day Off-spinners what we see have doubtful action which a novice can make out

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 11:44 GMT)

Arjuna Ranatunga has a lot to answer for.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 10:52 GMT)

@ Vikum72 on (October 27 2012, 06:44 AM GMT) - valid point re: Murali bowling legspin. I have sympathy for the Umpire Emerson, contrary to what some people think, he was doing his job to what he felt was correct. I do think that to call Murali for bowling a no ball when he was bowling legspin was a mistake though, as it is supposed to be impossible. I'd have to see the footage again of his legspin deliveries, maybe they too looked rubbery - I can't remember clearly.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 10:46 GMT)

@ getsetgopk on (October 27 2012, 06:45 AM GMT) - READ MY POSTS!!!! I KNOW that you can have a bent arm like Ajmal & bowl legally. I accept that. I am however dubious about elbow flexing & would like to see that monitored in GAME SITUATIONS! If you are going to criticise something I say - at least understand what I wrote in the first place!! I have basically said I don't have a problem with Ajmal's bent arm. On (October 26 2012, 23:59 PM GMT) I said "A bowler like Ajmal bowls with a bent arm - as he can't physically straighten it, when he bowls, is arm doesn't straighten, so in my mind he's ok." What's wrong with that????????????

Posted by Mervo on (October 27, 2012, 10:36 GMT)

All credit to John Inverarity - a of intellect and wisdom. However, this is not about Australia, the doosra is chucking and should be banned. If 15 degress is Ok, then who not 30 and why not 45? It makes lesser spinners who cannot master flight and length look like world beaters. Let's stop the chucking and have some cricket again.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 9:29 GMT)

@ inzisaloos: I understand that the scientists do their best to ensure that the lab bowling action matches the on-field one. However, the same scientists, in justifying the 15 degree limit as being an acceptable elbow extension, made the point that below 15 degree extension coincides with what is detectable by the naked eye as legitimate. An extension of greater than 15 degrees is seen by the naked eye as illegal chucking. If this is the case, then why shouldn't the umpire be able to call a no ball? It's quite simple either it looks like chucking, in which case he calls it, or it doesn't. In the majority of cases the umpire is going to be right. To be safe, a bowler should ensure he is within the 15 degree limit and therefore appears not to be throwing. This is a pragmatic on-field application of the current law.

Posted by mixters on (October 27, 2012, 9:26 GMT)

As for the guys going on about reverse swing there are rules about what you can and cant do to a ball on the field to help it to start to reverse. I dont think rubbing soil from your pocket or biteing it to rough up one side like Affridi did are leagle. To all those hypocrites the rules are the rules and that is what the article is about keeping the bowlers within those rules not changing them to suit a certine few!

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 8:12 GMT)

in proper practise sessions and a good brain can develop doosra to deliver in a legal action..!

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 8:00 GMT)

This is just stupid. Inverarity will soon become like those before him. It's this kind of thinking that would have seen things like T20 not rise. Get with the times. Every nation has bowlers like this. West Indies, India, Sri Lanka, heck even South Africa. It isn't just the sub-continent nations. Whilst England, NZ and Australia might not have any spinners like this at the moment, with time they will emerge and they will be selected based on performance. These guys will succeed as some point as shown by Ashwin, Mendis and co.

The 15 degree role is fair. Having 23 degrees in Ajmal's case a bit over the top. If Australia can still produce quality leg spinner's then great. But from what I can see, traditional off spinners aren't going to get wickets. Swann's time is over. In the age of T20, these versatile spinners will get the accolades

Posted by seniorgators on (October 27, 2012, 7:09 GMT)

@ inzisaloos Not sure what article you read my friend but it surely is not the one above. NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE does Inverarity say or imply that that learning the doosra delivery lacks "integrity". I quote from the article "Inverarity said he was happy for the doosra to be bowled legally, but said its future exponents in Australia needed to be tested to ensure they fell within the 15 degrees now legislated."I'm all for them learning it, but it's got to be within the rules. I think the integrity of the game, the integrity of our Australian cricket heritage is important," he said". That is SO way removed from your conclusion, me thinks you are either being mischievious or English is not your natural tongue. In short, he is NOT casting aspersions on anyone who bowls it. He is simply saying we need to be careful about it and "we" meaning Australia. Surely only those who are seeking to be offended could take offence at that!

Posted by getsetgopk on (October 27, 2012, 6:45 GMT)

@landl47: You dont get it do you neither does Meety. The bent arm does not constitute throwing or chucking, its the degree to which you straighten it once you roll your arm up in the final delivery process. Straightening is chucking and that should not be allowed. If Ajmal starts with 8 degrees bent or whatever degree it is, is irrelevant here. On average he straightens his arm by 8 degrees, well within the limits set by ICC.

Posted by Vikum72 on (October 27, 2012, 6:44 GMT)

@hyclass: Mate you seems to have a very short & confused memory! Are you hinting about Murali or Saqlain, because the latter introduced the Doozra. Why do you think Ross Emerson called Murali when he was bowling the leg spinner? which 120 year old rule was he trying to safeguard then? Also what about modern technology proving all fast bowlers are throwing including the Aussie bunch? Didn't see Mc Grath or Bret Lee retiring did we?

Posted by m0se on (October 27, 2012, 6:21 GMT)

I think Narine bowls his doosras without looking like he's bending elbows at illegal levels. I don't know why they say doosaras cannot be bowled without bending the elbows. Why wouldn't the coaches take to experimenting to find out ways of bowling the doosra without bending or flexing the elbows rather than shut it out as an question of integrity? After all, there are bowlers who bowl it looking normal!

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 6:19 GMT)

The problem is not with the Doosra, it is with the action of a particular bowler. Saqlain Mushtaq was the inventor of doosra without ever having any questions asked about his action. And Murali or Ajmal's actions seems unusual even when bowling the off break.

Posted by landl47 on (October 27, 2012, 6:02 GMT)

As far as I'm concerned, the tests prove nothing. They only show that a bowler CAN bowl legally. The test is whether he DOES bowl legally in a match. As Meety says, what must be done is for every bowler's action to be monitored during a match, to ensure that he is not throwing. I also have considerable problems with the 15% rule being interpreted to mean 15% on top of whatever natural bend a bowler has in his arm. Ajmal claims that he is allowed to bend his arm 23% because he has a natural 8% bend to start with. That's nonsense, in my view. If he starts with 8%, he has 7% left to play with. The fact that his arm is 8% bent is what's important. How it got to 8% is irrelevant. I'm entirely with Inverarity on this and it's sad to see Australians disagreeing with him.

Posted by seniorgators on (October 27, 2012, 5:43 GMT)

Would be good if more than half the comments came from people who actually read the article in full and understood the meaning of integrity "in the context of which it was stated". I am reading all these comments where the word integrity is being quoted ENTIRELY OUT OF CONTEXT. I quote from the article "Inverarity said he was happy for the doosra to be bowled legally, but said its future exponents in Australia needed to be tested to ensure they fell within the 15 degrees now legislated."I'm all for them learning it, but it's got to be within the rules. I think the integrity of the game, the integrity of our Australian cricket heritage is important," he said".

Posted by heathrf1974 on (October 27, 2012, 2:51 GMT)

If it's legal then we should teach it and this word 'integrity' is very much a subjective word. Inverarity should stop being so high and mighty and focus on making Australia number 1 again within the rules of the game.

Posted by inzisaloos on (October 27, 2012, 2:02 GMT)

Oh my goodness. Some of the comments on here just beggar belief! People need to be a little bit more scientifically clued-up before they start making such ill-judged comments about the 15 degree rule being some sort of 'legitimized throwing.' Not only is this illogical - how can bowling within the rules be seen as a 'deliberate throw" (in fact this is as illogical as Inverarity's comment that bowling "within the rules" - as the best exponents of the doosra like Ajmal do, and as Saqlain and Murali before him did - can lack "integrity", but it also overlooks the fact that there is a clear process by which these actions are checked and measured. I would urge anyone who wants to engage with the science on this matter (instead of irrelevant comments about "integrity" or preposterous ramblings about "legalised throwing") to read George Dobell's story: "The facts about Saeed Ajmal" dated from Feb 8 this year.

Posted by   on (October 27, 2012, 1:49 GMT)

I think I have heard this kind of response from Cricket Australia before (in fact there was a recent TV series about it) - it was called World Series Cricket or what ultimately became One Day Cricket.

The establishment digging it's head in the sand and not seeing that the game has moved past them - doesn't matter if it is 'cricket' or not, because it is now part of cricket and is not going anywhere.

If you don't develop the bowlers, then our batters will not be exposed to the bowling whilst they are developing and not only do you miss out on the bowlers, but you have batsman that can't handle it.

Get with Inverarity, or go the way of the Dinosaurs.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 1:46 GMT)

@Gizza on (October 26 2012, 23:59 PM GMT) - top comment IMO. The only bit i disagree with is - the bit about the bent arm. A bowler like Ajmal bowls with a bent arm - as he can't physically straighten it, when he bowls, is arm doesn't straighten, so in my mind he's ok.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 1:43 GMT)

@ haq33 on (October 26 2012, 14:00 PM GMT) - lighten up! I don't recall Ozzys EVER claiming reverse swing was illegal - wrong country, it was the Poms! As for the Googly - explain how that could be considered illegal. I agree that it was not specifically about the Doosra, rather we had a bloke was destined to end up being the #1 wicket taker in history had what LOOKED like an illegal action. The reality is, whether you love him or loathe him, his action was out of this world different & looked like it was a chuck. My grandfather who was on the verge of sinility at the time - could hardly get a word out of him, start chuckling the first time he saw Murali bowl. He'd just look at us & say no-ball! I think Murali is a great human being, but the reality is the ICC had a big problem. An action that LOOKED so far illegal it wasn't funny, was on track to become the most prolific wicket taker ever, they set a parameter that accomodated Murali - allowing for biomechanics.

Posted by Meety on (October 27, 2012, 1:37 GMT)

@Ujjwal Deb on (October 26 2012, 12:40 PM GMT) - good comments although I disagree. In 1862, the game was still evolving - I think they were still playing with 2 stumps & a single bail at the time. To run a batsmen out, the keeper had to put the ball in a hole between the 2 stumps before the batsmen's bat, this all changed due to the increasing number of hand injuries - LOL! The point @Hyclass is making, is that this is a rule that has been stuck with for a very long time. == == == To the people banging on about Lab tests proving this or that, the real test will occur shortly when the ICC will look to approve inobtrusive monitoring devices on the field. So live action can be monitored. I liked Murali - I have always been dubious about his action - it was so widly different. I accept he had unique biomechanics - which were easily proven. I accept that his action can LOOK deceptively illegal, my only wish was that his Doosra was monitored during an actual match.

Posted by KosalaDeSilva on (October 27, 2012, 1:17 GMT)

Answer to " disco_bob on "

Well well , I think they, ICC should publish every bowlers details.How much they bending the arm. Think not many people forgot that research found some fast bowlers from those countries bend arm more than Murali did. I think no one want to publish as it will hurt their legendary ( so called ) fast bowlers . It's about time to get over it !!!! Murali never used drugs, wasn't on news for other things than making record.

By the way , what's original? Is that under arm bowling? LOL

"Posted by disco_bob on (October 26 2012, 22:51 PM GMT) Now that Murali has retired, why not just get rid of the 15º rule and reinstate the original."

Posted by me54321 on (October 27, 2012, 1:11 GMT)

Watching a few of the 'bowlers' these days, it does seem pretty obvious that they're exploiting the deficiencies of the testing system, and something does need doing. However, there isn't going to be much enthusiasm for change from certain countries as things stand.

Posted by Gizza on (October 26, 2012, 23:59 GMT)

Maybe the angle rule should be extended in T20 to 30 or 45 degrees. It will make the Americans feel at home since the ICC is trying so hard to desperately promote the game there lol. It is true the underarm/overarm rule changed early on the history of Test cricket. But I think the word "bowling" carries with it a meaning that the arm has to be straight. If bent arm releases of the ball are to be made legal then a different word should be used to describe the action. Anyway, the best players of spin in the 2000's (India and Australia) handled Murali with ease so the extra weapon can be thwarted with quality batting.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 23:52 GMT)

The problem with the current 15 degree rule is that it is too lenient. A toleration limit for bending of the arm should be there to account those that bend their arm unintentionally and as a margin of error. However with the 15 degree rule you now have bowlers who have managed to find a way of throwing deliberately but within the 15 degree toleration. That is not what the 15 degree toleration was designed for. A deliberate throw should always be no balled and has no place in the game. Imagine would happen if a new breed of fast bowler learnt how to bend their elbow within the 15 degree limit and started bowling the Charlie Griffiths type throat ball again? All hell would break loose because of the physical danger posed to the batsmen. The solution to all this is to reduce the toleration to a level were bowlers are not able deliberately throw and get away with it. 12.5 or maybe even 10 degrees. The toleration limit should be a margin of error not a charter for throwing!

Posted by Mervo on (October 26, 2012, 23:30 GMT)

Murali is gone from the game and he had a unique physical capacity/deformation. Others don't and they are benefitting from being about to part 'throw' the ball. Bedi, Gibbs, Laker and many others rose to be world champions without this aberration and we should now carefully examine its execution every year for every bowler that uses it. This is nothing like reverse swing bowling which was an innovation but not breaking the rules. The doosra is either side of the chucking rule and we need to be very vigilant. In reality it is taking the art out of off spin bowling and can be seen as a lazy approach.

Posted by inzisaloos on (October 26, 2012, 22:52 GMT)

It seems incredible that there are people on here who seem to be arguing for the primacy of the "naked eye" of umpires during a game over tests done in a lab! That is not 'common sense" as they keep saying, it is just plain anti-scientific. These are players careers we are talking about. It helps to have some sort of rigour to the process, instead of the variables of an umpire's "naked eye." Also, why do people assume that lab experiments are places where players can easily hoodwink the sports scientists as though the latter are a bunch of simpletons who do not understand the difference between a controlled environment and the field of play! Bowlers are required to bowl different types of delivery and then an assessment is made for each one. It's not a case of just turning up and duplicitously bowling with a straight arm and that being an end to the matter!

Posted by disco_bob on (October 26, 2012, 22:51 GMT)

Now that Murali has retired, why not just get rid of the 15º rule and reinstate the original.

Posted by aamir187 on (October 26, 2012, 22:44 GMT)

Lol at this absolute joke. I seem to remember the English saying something similar about reverse swing...until they managed to figure out how to bowl it and then they shut up ;)

There is definitely something about countries like England and Australia. They hate to accept that the Asian countries can do something better than they can.

Posted by inzisaloos on (October 26, 2012, 22:40 GMT)

Inverarity's comments are riddled with inconsistencies. He states outright his support for bowlers who bowl within the rules, but in the same token implies that learning the doosra delivery lacks "integrity". This is just muddle-headed. Either a bowler bowls with a legal action or he doesn't. To use the word "integrity" here is a red-herring. If a bowler is outside the permitted 15 degree rule he will be stopped from bowling until his action is remedied. These are matters of science, not some knee-jerk invocation of "integrity". The doosra is a special delivery bowled to great effect only by very special players. As the recent article on cricinfo regarding Saeed Ajmal's action proved, he does not throw when he bowls the doosra. This is not conjecture. It is scientific fact, and anyone who questions it may as well be a luddite.

Posted by FRRR on (October 26, 2012, 22:31 GMT)

@rickyvoncanterbury ,,,, ODI world cup is with India, The so called No.1 T20 side (SA) got their respect handed over to them in World T20 ,,, Pakistan destroyed England in Test cricket. We all know what happened to AUS ...

"AUS, ENG and SA rule cricket" ,,, I do not think so ,,,,you need to correct your history.

Posted by FRRR on (October 26, 2012, 22:26 GMT)

@Haleos ,,, Saqlain invented dosraa ,,,, He should be given his due respect for inventing this delivery. Ajmal will always be known as the first established mystery spinner because he has perfected this art. mendis is good no doubt, but Ajmal is the face of mystery spin. As far as, who invented it first, well then we should give credit to Saqlain ....

Posted by UK_Chap on (October 26, 2012, 22:09 GMT)

rickyvoncanterbury : You talk a load of rubbish, there have been ten world cups England and South Africa between them, have won none. it is only Australia that has won three. All the other world cups have been shared between the other teams. As for Test matches, England has become good at test cricket in the last 7 years. South Africa and Australia are great test match cricket teams. Performances have fluctuated up and down over the decades and this still applies today.

Posted by Advice_For_All on (October 26, 2012, 22:05 GMT)

Why an innovation like first of all reverse swing started by Pakistani bowlers is seen with concern as if there is something wrong with it. All games are evolving and to make it more interesting new things should be accepted with appreciation and especially in bowling as cricket is becoming more of the batsmen's game. If there are some genius in cricket who introduce something interesting in the game it should be accepted as long as it's within the game's rules. Australia is a great cricketing nation but the truth is subcontinent is it's future and to globalize the game of cricket let's make it more interesting.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 21:50 GMT)

Not sure why people keep mentioning England here... the only posters backing up the Aus selector are other Aussies... No English/Western conspiracy. Every cricket lover over here that I've ever spoken to loved watching Murali bowl for example. Ajmal the same. Watching the WI quicks when we had Willis as our spearhead, the same.

Posted by inthebag on (October 26, 2012, 21:34 GMT)

Good on 'em I say. Australia was one of the few countries that spoke out against changing the rules to allow the chucking and for good reason. We don't want to lose the art of proper spin bowling by teaching our kids to chuck. If other countries do then they can live with that but we won't, and if it means that we lose a few games of cricket here and there well so be it.

Posted by rickyvoncanterbury on (October 26, 2012, 21:25 GMT)

with or without integrity, with or without chuckers, South Africa, Australia and England will always rule cricket, call them sour if you want.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 20:57 GMT)

I don't believe Aussies or English can bowl doosra.

So I suggest all Aussies and English bowlers firstly learn how to bowl doosra then if you feel it's against your integrity then don't use it in the match.

After all under pressure only Australian team bowled underarm so I have no reason to doubt their integrity.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 20:41 GMT)

@Andy Plowright .The old laws meant that if a bowler appeared to be chucking (to the umpire's naked eye) he was no-balled. A delivery that complies with the 15 degree law is also acceptable to the naked eye. Irrespective of whether a bowler's action has been cleared in a lab, it follows that if the umpire sees what looks like a throw, he should be able to call a no-ball. But this no longer happens, there is instead a process to be followed. The bowler is allowed to continue bowling, goes for assessment, where miraculously he doesn't exceed the 15 degree measurement. Back onto the field and back to chucking as per the naked eye. The point is that before the law change, most bowlers actions were acceptable to the naked eye. Now a bowler can bowl illegal deliveries with impunity and then hide behind the 15 degree law and fool the process. So I stick by my assertion that the rule was bent to accommodate certain bowlers. Read and learn all you want. I'll stick with common sense thank you.

Posted by Harvey on (October 26, 2012, 20:37 GMT)

When throwing is legalised, which I believe is the only possible way of enforcing the Laws of Cricket in a fair manner, England and Australia will be left at a disadvantage if they continue not to allow the doosra. Let's allow it and put an end to the hypocrisy and inconsistency that has been allowed to reign for so long over what is a legal delivery. Underarm was eventually replaced by roundarm because it had become difficult to tell a legal underarm delivey from an illegal round-arm one. Roundarm was quickly superceded by overarm, because it had become impossible in practice to differentiate between a legal roundarm delivery and an illegal overarm one. It is even more impossible in a match situation today to tell a legal delivery from an illegal throw. It's time to move on again. Cricket will survive, and allowing throwing won't stop bowlers from continuing to use traditional styles. It will simply give the batsman more to think about, which is no bad thing.

Posted by Hammond on (October 26, 2012, 20:25 GMT)

There is no double standards here. You have to remember (and no-one does) that the decision on throwing used to be with the umpire alone and by eye sight alone (from square leg). Based on the old law, Murali was called for throwing in a test match. The laws have since changed. but this doesn't mean that we in Australia are still not going to cull bowlers with suspect actions from our first grade cricket system. We would rather err on the side of caution rather than see people chucking the cricket ball consistently, all through the different levels of cricket. If you watch footage of Indian children playing in the street in India, many of them are chucking the ball. If that happened in Australia, someone would come and teach them how to bowl correctly. That is the difference. And as I've said before and will say again, throwing will never be legalised, because of the benefit that this will provide our pace bowlers.

Posted by pawaramol22 on (October 26, 2012, 19:56 GMT)

Australia and England are doing what they can to hide their weakness against spin

Posted by salmanzaffar on (October 26, 2012, 19:32 GMT)

Spoken like a true joker. Reminds me of the time when reverse swing was a crime and against "integrity". Wonder what his views will be when he will have the choice to pick someone who can actually bowl a doosra !

Posted by Biggus on (October 26, 2012, 19:03 GMT)

@Jayco-Nothing new about the so called 'Carrom ball' mate, Iverson was bowling it in the late 1940s. When I was young it was known as the 'Iverson method' and I see no reason to change the name of it now, no matter how much some complain.

Posted by cricraz on (October 26, 2012, 18:54 GMT)

If you cant produce spinners of high calibre, Then invoke "Integrity". That is typical Western political rhetoric! Why does Inverarity not call KP reverse or McCullum scoop as illegal and against the spirit of the game? Because some of the australian batsman can play that shot. As far as Swann being a great spinner, I disagree because he has performed well in English and Australian conditions after his fast bowlers have taken out the top order and put pressure on batsman. It is always difficult to face a spinner when you are under pressure. Swann will be exposed when he bowls in India where the fast men are going to get no assistance.!! Inverarity invariably gets it wrong when it comes to modern day cricket. Change with times or you will be a dinosaur!!

Posted by ProdigyA on (October 26, 2012, 18:37 GMT)

As long as you dont bowl with full sleeves on you are ok.

Posted by Haleos on (October 26, 2012, 17:04 GMT)

@FRRR - Mendis made his debut before Ajmal. So Mendis is the original mystery spinner.

Posted by ARad on (October 26, 2012, 16:53 GMT)

No reasonable person should trust Mr Inverarity's eyes over tests performed on the field to track how much a fast bowler's arm flexes when he bowls so, if anyone agrees with Mr Invararity's logic, he or she should argue that Australians should abandon fast bowling as well to be consistent since LOGIC IS ALL ABOUT CONSISTENCY (since tests shows that fast bowlers flex their arm, yes, including the great Glenn McGrath!) I am willing to see how many leg spinners Australians would be lining up against South Africans this summer (since, you know, leg spinners are the ones who deemed to have the least amount of flexing according to tests conducted in actual playing conditions.) Can Aussie commenters educate me about CURRENT LEG SPINNING STOCK IN AUSTRALIAN STATE CRICKET please?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 16:49 GMT)

This is really funny.Some one said that the art of spin in Australia has ended with McGill, but I'd say it ended with Warne.Yes its true that the on field umpires cant pick the >15degrees in real time, but linking it with integrity is very strange.If we talk in the same breath, then the "Mental Disintegration" should also be considered as breach of integrity,but hey who are masters in that? So the rule is simple here if you cant do it - mark it against integrity. I feel its a dig at Ajmal, but instead of finding a reasonable solution, this argument I must say is really on the wrong note

Posted by waza1234 on (October 26, 2012, 16:45 GMT)

And when you learn how to do it you will describe it as the greatest delivery ever invented.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 16:33 GMT)

True Swann is a good bowler. But innovation should be allowed. Slinging action, reverse sweep, switch hit are not in traditional cricket. So if you cant blend into the new system its your problem.

Posted by Balumekka on (October 26, 2012, 16:14 GMT)

Sour Grapes for Aussies it seems!!!!

Posted by sams235 on (October 26, 2012, 16:04 GMT)

Hahaha. Is this guy serious?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 16:01 GMT)

@ jonathan Grapes are sour mate!! Aussie CANNOT SPIN THE BALL.. dont call them spinners..i feel sorry for u guys.

Posted by mrmonty on (October 26, 2012, 16:01 GMT)

What we can't do must be illegal or dishonest.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 15:51 GMT)

Cricket has evolved many changes have been introduced over the years. If it was not for these changes, cricket would have been a boring game. We must understand that new styles of bowling must be allowed to keep this game alive. People got to accept and embrace them.

Posted by Jayco on (October 26, 2012, 15:50 GMT)

Inverarity is a nice bloke, but this confirms the Australian view of spin is very out of date. The art of spin has moved on from the Doosra, which is nearly a 15 year old issue! The problem is, it's really not about doosras anymore. Now, bowlers use many more variations such as the carrom ball (which Aust cricket public was very slow to notice) and 'mystery spinners' such as Narine and Mendis who took the most wickets at WorldT20, are mixing up offies and leggies regularly. And these are the type of 'mystery' bowlers Bailey was talking about.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 15:50 GMT)

Aus and Eng are just jealous because they keep getting owned by these type of bowlers and cant produce their own. If Aus had an Ajmal, I dont think they would be question ing 'integrity'. What does he mean by 'integrity'? If it is within the laws of the game how is it violating 'integrity'?

Posted by Nutcutlet on (October 26, 2012, 15:37 GMT)

There is the problem of the umpire knowing on sight, at the instant, whether or not the flexion of a bowler's arm has exceeded the allowable limit of 17 degrees. Just because a bowler has been 'passed' by lab examination or whatever, doesn't automatically mean that EVERY delivery bowled by that bowler with a perceptible elbow-kink in his delivery action is always to be regarded as staying within legal limits. This is the trouble with relaxing the straight-arm rule in the first instance. Call it angle creep. It's certain that it happens & in due course, several years down the line, bowlers may as well be baseball pitchers. This is what happens when the original rules are relaxed. Brave the umpire who makes a stand, esp in the subcontinent! This, for me, is the clinching argument. Umps should call any bowler whose arm appears to be SIGNIFICANTLY BENT. In another age, when the authority of the umpire was accepted without question, that was precisely what happened. And it was right.

Posted by The_Cube on (October 26, 2012, 15:31 GMT)

It's time for Inverarity to go if he is incapable of keeping up with the game. I'm a traditionalist and am disgusted that the rules were changed to allow the chucker(Murali) to stay in the game, but the reality is that the rules have changed and we have to change with this.

On the Aus A team, I say that this is another reason why Inverarity should go. Why pick a bunch of clowns that are no chance of ever playing test cricket when we should be picking a team of players that are trialling for a place in the top side. This team is just going to give South Africa confidence leading into the first test and we'll get smashed in that and the second before changes are made. It's quite obvious that the 1st test squad will be Warner, Cowan, Watson, Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Wade, Siddle, Pattinson, Hilf, Cummins, Starc, Lyon.

Since none of the Aus A players are being considered for test cricket I wish Ponting and Siddle were in that side.

Posted by nigoltruth on (October 26, 2012, 15:29 GMT)

truth be told, it wasn't so long ago that we proclaimed with all certainty ''Reverse Swing'' was impossible to acheive legally. Well, that was until we learnt the"'Art''... After which all talk of çricket's integrity totally dissapated.

Posted by fr600 on (October 26, 2012, 15:13 GMT)

It's called GOOGLY in English. Commentators nowadays don't know that, apparently the writers too.

Posted by keptalittlelow on (October 26, 2012, 15:09 GMT)

They can't accept the great Murali's 800 wickets it's as simple as that. It's nothing new my friends, the skills Australians or English cant master after trying their best that becomes an issue of integrity. Grapes are sour, I guess, Doosra is an art, just like once Reverse Swing was, Pakistanis mastered the Reverse Swing before Australians or English could do it so they cried foul. Wait a few years, tomorrow's cricket fan will laugh at Inverarity's spun gospel of integrity.

Posted by mcsdl on (October 26, 2012, 15:08 GMT)

This guy havent got a clue. Doosra is the best thing to come after slice bread...! Maybe Aussies dont have the talent or skill to master this style of bowling...!

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 15:02 GMT)

@Jonathan Jono Lane. Wrong. The laws weren't changed to accommodate controversial actions. Scientific analysis found that the overwhelming majority of bowlers had a degree of flex in their action. Under the old laws, the like of Gillespie, McGrath, and Pollock all exceeded a 10 degree flex of the arm. Go to Google, hunt for the Cricinfo article entitled "The 15-degree question". Read. Learn! There has always been a degree of flex in bowling actions.

Posted by sam_m on (October 26, 2012, 15:00 GMT)

Integrity will not help you win tournaments nowadays. The guys with bent arms (within the allowable ICC limits) are out there getting wickets and confusing batsmen. Here is a pro tip: develop good spinners and teach the doosra as an additional delivery. If they can bowl and get away with it, who cares?

Posted by dsirl on (October 26, 2012, 14:45 GMT)

Interesting that Inverarity cites Swann, Mallet, Yardley and May. The first 3 have test bowling averages of roughly 30 and May's is mid 30s. Good averages but by no means outstanding. Who, I wonder, is the last (i) traditional finger spinner and (ii) Aus/Eng/NZ finger spinner to average nearer to 25 than 30?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 14:39 GMT)

Well said Invers and well said Angry Angy, QFT:

'The king of the doosra at the moment basically has a broken elbow which he can't straighten. The guy before him had a congenital deformity. What is to teach about that? The international game tells us not that all finger spinners must use a doosra, but that uniqueness is crucial. Among mortals, Saqlain faded into obscurity after he was picked, Harbhajan hardly bowls it and Botha has certainly gotten into much trouble over it and his action in general.

Is all this really necessary to bowl finger spin? Just stick to leggies, methinks.'

Posted by muneeb2012 on (October 26, 2012, 14:37 GMT)

fact is that aus dont need mystery spin ....they have got fantastic fast bowling talent that will serve them for atleast 10 years.... Fast bowlers are d elite class of cricketers even today ... Just keep on producing quality pacers and forget about developing mystery spinner

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 14:24 GMT)

Before teaching the doosra they should teach their bowlers the art of spin first. If they can't do that then there's no hope. What's wrong with teaching change of pace, arm ball and changes in line and length? I watched Phangiso in the champions league and not once was there a mystery delivery. They need to develop these guys to have a true spinner's brain. There are also variations that don't need flex-ion. Ashwin bowls the carrom ball which Sunil Narine has made his own variation of "knuckle ball". This delivery comes from the front of the hand and need no flex-ion. You can't teach these things either. It's up to young bowlers themselves.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 14:19 GMT)

cricket has developed over the ages and the view of CA inverarit yisn't fair because he terms bowlers who bowl unconventionally as cheats which isn't fair ..

Posted by SpinLizard on (October 26, 2012, 14:19 GMT)

I don't think it is necessary to bend your elbow to bowl a doosra, I have bowled them. I never thought Saqlain had a suspect action. There is nothing suspicious about what Ashwin and Narine are doing with the flick. Keep spinning it.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 14:17 GMT)

Pakistanis invented reverse swing, all other countries called it illegal but when they had learnt how to do it, it was admitted as an ART by same those countries. again Pakistanis(saqlain mushtaq) invented Doosra it's illegal for only those countries who can't bowl it, so let them learn Doosra it will become all legal soon... :) grapes are sour!!

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 14:16 GMT)

Vinay Parisa, I agree with you that "Doosra" in an innovation and I don't think that bowlers bent their arm more when they bowl a "Doosra". If they do so then why the batsmen who watch all the time the hand and arm of the bowlers can pick it. Infact this is the biggest truth that these bowlers like Ajmal never change his bowling action or bent his arm more when bowl a Doosra. And thats the problem that they have a similar action for all of their variety. That make the batsmen fool.

Posted by haq33 on (October 26, 2012, 14:00 GMT)

Ridiculous by hyclass.....the rules of cricket were not changed to accommodate the doosra.....they were changed to accommodate elbow flexion angles, which many Aussie fast bowlers were equally guilty of exploiting long before the doosra was coined. Get of the high horse. This wreaks of Aussies vs the rest of the world syndrome. It was all fair game when Aussie quicks did it, or when Pietersen switch hit or when traditional swing bowling arose, or the googly.....but of course, reverse swing was cheating, the doosra was cheating etc etc. It's days like this that I think thank goodness the power is shifting away from Aus and over to India because it isn't much longer that we will have to put up with such old establishment grumpiness. Why do the subcontinental teams not complain about switch hits and sledging nearly as much as dinosaurs like Inverarity harp on about a legitimate bowling variation??

Posted by InnocentGuy on (October 26, 2012, 13:54 GMT)

Well, if you want to keep giving excuses for your inability to find a good spinner, no one's complaining. Have at it.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 13:46 GMT)

It is sad that the rules of the game have been bent (no pun intended) to accommodate controversial bowling actions. The rule that disallowed extension of the arm during the delivery was there quite simply to prevent throwing, which was deemed an unfair advantage for the bowler. To anyone who thinks that Murali, Ajmal or Lee's actions are acceptable, I ask "why stop with 15 degrees?" It's now impossible for the umpire to decide on the legality of bowling during play, so why have a limit at all? Clearly the game would be completely different if any kind of throw was allowed, so ask yourself whether that is what you want. Maybe we'll see baseball pitching in place of bowling in a few years time, and today's throwing coaches will be tomorrow's bowling coaches. Let's start a breakaway game called "traditional cricket" with no bent (arm) bowlers, no sledging, white clothes, batsmen who walk, and fielders who can be trusted when a catch is grassed.

Posted by jigerz on (October 26, 2012, 13:32 GMT)

@prasad Reddy. Boy you have nailed it. What a strong counter argument. I would like to listen what people talking integrity stuff has to say about this. I am sure most people talking about integrity stuff has very little knowledge about what throwing is and how ICC came up with 15 degree limit. As already pointed out if 15 degree limit was not there, brett lee and some other prominent bowlers would have been banned. so where was your integrity then. The main issue right now is that you don't have skills to do it and thats why you are finding excuses.

Posted by FRRR on (October 26, 2012, 13:27 GMT)

Grapes are sour, i guess. Mystery spin is a new art, just like once reverse swing was. Pakistanis mastered reverse swing and the whole world cried, shouted because they couldn't bowl. Same case with mystery spin ,,,, Ajmal is a true first master of mystery spin

Posted by SrilankanTamil on (October 26, 2012, 13:26 GMT)

Is there a List with names of the bowlers and and the degrees they flex?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 13:22 GMT)

As long as this guy is the chief selector, god save Oz cricket...

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 13:17 GMT)

The doosra should be banned, or more specifically the ridiculous law allowing bending of the arm that has led to the explosion of these types of bowlers. If a long term, traditional law needs to be changed to make it legal, then that's just not cricket. Proud that Australia isnt heading down the path of cheating that others have.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 13:15 GMT)

Agree completely and I'm a Pom

Posted by David_Boon on (October 26, 2012, 13:11 GMT)

George Bailey is all worked up, big deal. Who is George Bailey? No Australian should ever resort to chucking, regardless of what the ICC says is legal. Stick to the convention, Warnie never needed to chuck and he was the G.O.A.T.

Posted by Musafir18 on (October 26, 2012, 13:11 GMT)

And with one statement, all the "doosra" bowlers of the world are termed cheats. Way to go.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 13:07 GMT)

Lack of Innovation kills a company/sport/nation/world. Doosra is an innovation and must be treasured. If Doosra is a quesiton of Integrity, so is switch hit, so is leg glance and so is sledging which Australians love to do..

Posted by PadMarley on (October 26, 2012, 13:02 GMT)

Sorry, I think I had somes serious laugh to end my day on a cold friday. :-) What on earth is this guy talking about? Point one, Doosra and integrity relationship .. integretiy is compliying with the rules... and there is a governing body for it. 15 degrees is 15 degrees. On the other hand, Ajantha Mendis has one of the straightest arms in the game...and he does a nice doosra... so that is lack of integrity? lol .. I bet another few years down the line, there will a good doosra bowler from your home town mate ... when that day comes, you will bite your toungue and find another silly argument to justify it. Once upon a time reverse swinging used to be cheating..

Posted by Selassie-I on (October 26, 2012, 12:53 GMT)

The doosra is redressing the balance between bat and ball, the batsman have been innovating, should the bowlers not be able to do the same, within reason? Move with the times or get left behind as they say, I have no problem with his stance, hopefully he will push the Australian team into years more decline. Also I think it is incredibly insulting to basically say that all the sub-continental teams have no integrity by bowling what is now a legal delivery.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 12:53 GMT)

We have a problem with your double standards Hammond. Even McGrath's bowling action used to breach the original 'chucking' rule of cricket (don't believe me? Look it up on Google!) and so did Tait's and Lee's. if integrity was such a big issue then why allow your fast bowlers 'throw'?? The truth is that the world would laugh at them if they play a bowler who bowls the doora after their behaviour with Murali which is why they wouldn't want to play someone who bowls the doosra. Plus doosra is an 'art' which is not easily perfected by too many bowlers around the world!

Posted by AngryAngy on (October 26, 2012, 12:48 GMT)

The king of the doosra at the moment basically has a broken elbow which he can't straighten. The guy before him had a congenital deformity. What is to teach about that? The international game tells us not that all finger spinners must use a doosra, but that uniqueness is crucial. Among mortals, Saqlain faded into obscurity after he was picked, Harbhajan hardly bowls it and Botha has certainly gotten into much trouble over it and his action in general.

Is all this really necessary to bowl finger spin? Just stick to leggies, methinks.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 12:42 GMT)

Grapes are sour, and I repeat (to cross the 25 words limit), GRAPES ARE SOUR

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 12:40 GMT)

@hyclass, the rules of cricket are not a constant. In 1862, Edgar Willsher deliberately bowled overarm in a first-class match at the Oval and was no-balled 6 times in an over by the umpire. Willsher and his professional colleagues then staged a walkout , leaving the amateurs scratching their heads. Play continued the next day after the umpire had been withdrawn. The MCC then changed the rules to allow overarm bowling from the next cricket season onwards. Despite the rule change, many in England (and in Australia) saw the new rules as being abhorrent to the spirit of cricket and continued to bowl round-arm and under-arm. It seems that Inverarity and a few others may be in a similar "roundarm" camp here :)

Posted by Freerider1 on (October 26, 2012, 12:40 GMT)

I think the Aussies prefer bowling under arm when a 6 is required for the opposition to win the match.

Posted by MunafAhmed811 on (October 26, 2012, 12:23 GMT)

As an Indian I still feel he is right. Saqlain the inventor of dooosra and perhaps inventor of these doubtful actions and now Bhajii, Ajmal, Murli and others have made off spin bowling a suspicious art .

Posted by Antomann on (October 26, 2012, 12:19 GMT)

The laws of sports change over time. People used to bowl underarm, now they bowl overarm. People used to bowl with a straight arm, now it's bent. So it goes.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 12:11 GMT)

Do R Ashwin and A Mendis bowl doosra? I'm sure Ashwin does not bowl doosra and also does not wear full sleeve.. I think this is same case with A Mendis.. their variations are bit different.... at least I'm sure about Ashwin, his variation is carom ball...

Posted by malepas on (October 26, 2012, 11:53 GMT)

This is the same argument we heard when PAK fast bowlers started to bowl reverse swing,,it was called cheating,,but then English bowlers managed to do that,,it became an art,,so this is a pathetic argument saying that anybody can just perfect the art of Doosra where this is not as easy to teach let alone learn and still the execution part is more difficult,,if you look from Asia, only very few bowlers managed this art, so bringing in the Integerity and moral is laughable,,this is noting to do with that,,the laws of cricket with its game has evolved and people should learn to evolve with it and no point living in dark ages. Aus need a good conventional bowler which they ahven't been able to produce and they moaning about Doosra,,comon.

Posted by Ulcer on (October 26, 2012, 11:53 GMT)

Just an excuse to hide inability

Posted by Valavan on (October 26, 2012, 11:52 GMT)

@Uppercut07, your uppercut is caught in the slips, haha, greame swann hammered in subcontinent, 40 wickets in 6 tests at 26 a piece is absolute hammering as per you. is it so what you will say about harbhajan who averages 33 per wicket in Asian conditions, look at stats before crowing here. take a walk instead.cricinfo please publish.

Posted by ham1990 on (October 26, 2012, 11:50 GMT)

I don't really think this is a question of teaching your spinners how to bowl the doosra. I highly doubt the likes of Ajmal, Narine, Harbhajan were coached those deliveries. These are bowlers who have developed their craft and individually worked on bettering themselves and developing new deliveries. The difference is these bowlers are allowed to come through the ranks in their respective countries. Look at the story of Akila Dananjaya, 18 year old just plucked out of the nets, and he is playing for his country. Australia are much less likely to produce one of these bowlers, but if one should come up even in grade cricket, then they should be taken on board and not changed. Not to mention, it is much easier for sub-continental background spinners to bowl the doosra.

Posted by Impactzone on (October 26, 2012, 11:44 GMT)

Rules are rules. If the doszra is allowed then if someone can bowl it, good luck to them. Inv' if he wishes to get the delivery outlawed should go that route rather than tell our youth it's a stinky delivery. Until then don't throw stones at those who possess a skill within the laws of the game.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 11:39 GMT)

This is so very true. I hope ICC reads this and does something about the farce that is going on. Dusra.. come on, one who knows cricket knows that this is illegal !!!

Posted by rickyvoncanterbury on (October 26, 2012, 11:37 GMT)

Siddle, Pattinsen, Starc, Cutting, Coulter nile, hilfi, Cummins, Butterworth, Geeze plenty of room for a spinner of Okeefes abilty, or go with 4 left armers right armers, swing bowlers, seam bowlers and let Clarke throw down a few

Posted by Rabbito on (October 26, 2012, 11:31 GMT)

i know how to fix this problem!!...get another leggie!!

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 11:29 GMT)

HAHAHHAHA.. Grapes are sour.....

Posted by Rabbito on (October 26, 2012, 11:28 GMT) think brett lee bowled illegally do you??...explain...sure your not jealous??...if he did, why is he one of the most popular cricketers of all time??

Posted by 1_234 on (October 26, 2012, 11:20 GMT)

Current australian spinners can not win a match for them therefore it is better they ask ICC to ban spinners all over the world, till they find a match winner spinner.

Posted by bonaku on (October 26, 2012, 11:15 GMT)

It should not be about people's opinions, it should be about the right and wrong.Given that we have pitches friendly to batsman, we need to give some thing extra for bowlers as well. I am not saying it should be dossara, but should keep this in the mind.

Posted by doosraopinion on (October 26, 2012, 11:10 GMT)

This statement by Mr. selector is code for: "We do not currently have resources to train our young spinners to develop a doosra".

You can bet if tomorrow a spinner emerged of the calibre of narine or ajmal, the selectors will be the first to get him on the team.

Posted by PFEL on (October 26, 2012, 11:05 GMT)

"teach our bowlers to bowl PROPERLY" . . . that won't be controversial at all . . .

Posted by golgo_85 on (October 26, 2012, 10:32 GMT)

And who exactly were going to help them to "develop doosra bowlers"?? What a joke that statement was! It's more about an individual skill than absolutely anything else. I would've loved to see Steve Waugh's Aus national team handle Ajmal and I'm sure they would've played him a lot better. This new lot comes off as rather novices playing slow bowling in general which is what they should look into to begin with instead of questioning the legality of major assets of world cricket. How about we disallow first bowlers to send down the occasional slow delivers as they do fool the batsmen from time to time. Pathetic and pointless argument.

Posted by Fleming_Mitch on (October 26, 2012, 10:22 GMT)

This comment shows how out of touch our 70 year old selector is, while we teach our spinners how to bowl correctly the spinners in other countries will continue to embarass us, get rid of him and get some younger selewctors who are not living in the 1960s. and yes Hauri should be in the team, he bowled beautifully today

Posted by Wynand80 on (October 26, 2012, 10:11 GMT)

@rickyvoncanterbury - hahahaha, the funniest thing I have heard in ages. No team in cricket has really gone to no.1 on the back and basis of just one player, spinner, pacer or whoever. Even if we were to argue that were untrue, lets take the case of Swann, his average is near 30 and if anything this reflects quite rightly on his standing in the pantheon of modern spinners.To say that he "took" England to no.1 is really streching things.Warne-now he has a better case although I would say that a combination of Warne,McGrath,Waugh/Ponting and Gilchrist took Australia to no.1.(we are leaving out Langer, Gillespie and Lee already here)!! Coming to whether bowling Doosra reflects poorly on integrity, the law of cricket as of today states 15 degrees are allowed-thats that, to say notwithstanding the law I am going to stand by a higher moral and ethical standard, noble indeed but you could start with playing the game fairly without sledging! btw Swann does not bowl doosra because he cant!

Posted by raufranjha on (October 26, 2012, 10:04 GMT)

what integrity its all excuse they can make they simply cant product the spiner who can bowel the dossra and neither they can play it very well so it is better they practice and try to learn the art this is what you have to work very hard so please dont make this kind of stupid statement play the cricket within the law and fair

Posted by hyclass on (October 26, 2012, 9:21 GMT)

The measure of whether the so called 'doosra' is legitimate, is that the rules of cricket had to be changed to accommodate it. Those rules stood for 120 years before a single player became responsible for its introduction. That player had very little success in this country, despite having that delivery. Official umpires, Ross Emerson and Daryl Hair received death threats, simply for upholding the more than century old rules, by which all countries and bowlers were previously required to abide. Many have tried to make this about race or culture. It isnt and I applaud Inverarity for his stand. The first player to be no-balled out of Test cricket for throwing was Mekiff by an Australian umpire. He took it with good grace and retired. Cricket has withstood the ages and retained its popularity because it transcended country and culture and became an edifice upon which national virtues were espoused and communicated to its youth. This is THE defining issue - integritys dilution vs money.

Posted by Hippiantor on (October 26, 2012, 9:13 GMT)

@Hammond could not have said it better!

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 9:08 GMT)

If I were ACB I would worry more about developing conventional spinners and forget about unconventional spinning for now.

Posted by mcheckley on (October 26, 2012, 8:58 GMT)

I rather doubt that may people are able to bowl the doosra legally, but doubtless some can depending on the architecture of their bowling arm. That said, the doosra is not the only way in which an offspinner can make the ball leave, or appear to leave, the right-handed batsman. The "slider" or "drifter" which "goes with the arm" has long been a prime weapon in the finger spinners armoury and is in my view more useful because it is more controllable, easily delivered legally, and aids the development of the classic "arm ball" when bowling around the wicket to a left handed batsman. I'm not against the doosra for those who have the arm to bowl it, but it should not be allowed to eclipse the classic drifter as a coaching focus for teaching finger spinners to make the ball fo the other way.

Posted by correctcall on (October 26, 2012, 8:48 GMT)

@hammond you are SpotOn with that observation !

Posted by Green_and_Gold on (October 26, 2012, 8:48 GMT)

All he is saying is that he wants to play/teach the game according to the laws - which is fair comment. I also agree with the statement about stock bowlers doing well. Its as much about the bowlers skill rather than how many options he has to bowl. It only takes a slight variation to get a wicket - so train players to make the most of the text book stuff. If a player has the ability to spin one the other way legally then support it. Aus have a plethora of fast bowling options at the moment - we dont need a strike bowler just a tidy one to bowl overs while the quicks do the work.

Posted by rickyvoncanterbury on (October 26, 2012, 8:44 GMT)

Shane Warne and to a lesser extent Swann are the only spinners that i can think of in the last 30 years to take their team to number 1. i am sure some Indian supporters will prove me wrong.

Posted by Hammond on (October 26, 2012, 8:39 GMT)

Why does everyone else find it so strange that we dissuade our young blokes here in Australia from throwing the cricket ball?

Posted by Yevghenny on (October 26, 2012, 8:35 GMT)

I think people should just accept the doosra and move on.

Posted by jmcilhinney on (October 26, 2012, 8:26 GMT)

@Prasad Reddy on (October 26 2012, 06:52 AM GMT), the argument is not that it "is" illegal, but that it "should be" illegal. That said, I'm not sure that that argument holds up either, given that testing has shown that various fast bowlers have just as much flexion in the actions as some "mystery" spinners. There's talk about "mystery" spin in both England and Australia at the moment. Personally, I'd be all for this "integrity" stance if it would make a difference to the ICC regulations, because I think that they have made the rules to suit the players rather than making the players obey the rules. The fact is it won't make any difference though, so holding yourself to a "higher" standard than the rules require is really just stupid. If the rules weren't relaxed then Brett Lee would have been banned from bowling, so where was Inverarity's integrity then?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 8:25 GMT)

No integrity at stake over playing Tait and Brett Lee?? This is simply stupid!!

Posted by Uppercut07 on (October 26, 2012, 8:23 GMT)

"Graeme Swann as a conventional spinner who has had plenty of success in recent years"----- :D)) Inverarity must ve missed the last English tours to sub-continent and the world cup matches. Swann absolutely got HAMMERED in the sub-continent and in the recent SA test matches :D))

Posted by Happy_AusBang on (October 26, 2012, 8:08 GMT)

What a bogus argument? Now they have an excuse - they chose integrity over skill.

If anything needs to improve in Australia it is the standard of umpiring.

Posted by Aristotle01 on (October 26, 2012, 8:06 GMT)


Posted by Ashish_514 on (October 26, 2012, 8:06 GMT)

If a batsman can practice a switch hit, scoop over keeper, reverse sweep etc., why can't a bowler learn to bowl a doosra. No question that a bowler can be successful even without the doosra, but it is a good variation to have in a batsmen friendly environment.

Posted by vikasverma on (October 26, 2012, 8:04 GMT)

I am not very sure if its about integrity, the question is do they have any quality conventional spinner at all forget the unconventional one.. I am alo confused about that they want to develop spinners,, can any one help me understand this,, HOW ON EARTH YOU DEVELOP SPINNERS, you can only look for little adjustments,

Posted by Vikum72 on (October 26, 2012, 7:38 GMT)

What about all fast bowlers straitening their arms? Doesn't that affect the integrity of Australian cricket?

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 7:37 GMT)

Integrity? Where does it go when there players sledge on the field? If thats all about winning, then so is Doosra. Besides, who is going to teach these 10-11 year olds how to bowl it ?? :)

Posted by EngineerKhan on (October 26, 2012, 7:06 GMT)

Totally agree with Prasad. What about Sledging? Brad Hogg's chinaman was not being picked by even Indians - best players of spin and thatswhy he at age of 42 was by some distance best bowler from Aussies in World T20. I think spin bowling has died in Australia since Stuart McGill has hanged up his shoes.

Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (October 26, 2012, 6:58 GMT)

So all pace it is. Good choice. Australia doesn't have any world class spinners anyway.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 6:52 GMT)

Integrity is questioned in bowling Doosra??? Most strangest line of argument I ever heard. Assuming that one has to flex to the max of 15 degrees to bowl Doosra, when that limit is legally allowed where is the question of the Doosra being illegal.

How about the sledging? Let us talk about integrity after stopping sledging.

Posted by   on (October 26, 2012, 6:49 GMT)

Maybe Australia should worry about whether or not they find a successful test spinner first and foremost, in all formats of the game, rather or not whether they can bowl one ball.

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Daniel Brettig Assistant editor Daniel Brettig had been a journalist for eight years when he joined ESPNcricinfo, but his fascination with cricket dates back to the early 1990s, when his dad helped him sneak into the family lounge room to watch the end of day-night World Series matches well past bedtime. Unapologetically passionate about indie music and the South Australian Redbacks, Daniel's chief cricketing achievement was to dismiss Wisden Almanack editor Lawrence Booth in the 2010 Ashes press match in Perth - a rare Australian victory that summer.
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