England news September 3, 2014

Broad shrugs off World Cup spin threat

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Butcher: England's attitude to ODIs wrong

It is probably stretching the notion to suggest England's problems against India's spinners are part of a cunning plan to lull oppositions, but Stuart Broad certainly sees the team's current predicament with a glass half-full view.

Broad, who will undergo surgery on his knee on Thursday but remains confident of being fit for the World Cup, watched from the Trent Bridge stands as England fumbled their way to 227 in the second ODI, losing their way almost as soon as MS Dhoni decided to take the pace off the ball. Something very similar happened a few days earlier in Cardiff and, in truth, has regularly been happening to England teams in one-day cricket for much of the last two decades while other nations have taken the format to new levels. As if to reinforce the point, the performance at Edgbaston was even worse.

It has become the standard answer from an England player to point out that spin is not expected to play a huge role in Australia and New Zealand - although Deepak Patel with the new ball in 1992 should not be forgotten - but it will surely be tempting for sides to play at least two frontline spinners against England almost regardless of conditions. That is not a prospect that Broad is concerned about.

"To be honest, I think that will play into our hands in Australia and New Zealand because it doesn't really turn," Broad said. "You'd imagine the players of the quality playing for England will be able to rotate the score off the spinners because it just skids on.

"You look at James Tredwell who has a really good record in England, he struggled in Australia and I wouldn't expect regulation finger spinners to cause any team big problems down there. In 1992 Mushtaq Ahmed had a really good tournament but he was a legspinner. As an England side we didn't play the spin well at Trent Bridge, but come the MCG or Wellington I can't see that being top of our worry list."

The recent performances by England have only gone to fuel the comments made by Michael Vaughan and Graeme Swann during the washed out match in Bristol, when everything from the captain to the tactics was ripped apart. Alastair Cook responded with his "so-called friend" comment about Swann while there is a certain siege mentality among the squad with regards to how they are playing one-day cricket.

"I don't think those comments would have come if the sun was shining at Bristol. I think it was bored comments watching the rain fall," Broad said during the final of the NatWest U-19 T20 club finals at his former home ground of Grace Road. "We haven't played as well as we'd want but we are building towards the World Cup. I've no doubt we can be really competitive in the World Cup. I've got full belief we are playing the right way, the guys just need to show more skill."

"I've been very fortunate to play 70-odd Tests and 100-odd ODIs, but England-Australia at the MCG to open the World Cup, it's as big as you get."
Stuart Broad

Of more immediate concern for Broad is a date with the surgeon on Thursday when he will undergo an operation to try and eradicate tendonitis in his right knee which has caused increasing problems for him since the Ashes in Australia. It became touch-and-go during the first two Tests against India whether he would make it through the series, but the brevity of India's innings in the last two outings meant he finished feeling in decent shape.

But Broad knows it is a problem he needs to get sorted if he wants to be a central figure in the congested year England have in 2015, starting with the World Cup then into a West Indies tour, a home summer including an Ashes then a tour of UAE to face Pakistan and a trip to South Africa.

Surprisingly, for a fast bowler who pushes his body to the limit, this will be the first time Broad has gone under the knife for anything. "I'm looking forward to getting it sorted but got to be honest I'm a bit nervous as I've never had an operation before, so there's a little bit of the unknown coming my way," he said. "The likes of Freddie and Goughy needed quite of surgery so I've been lucky.

"There have been times when it's been tough in the night and I've needed to get in hot baths at 3am. It has been a struggle so it will be relief to get it done. It's also a good period for me to get refreshed and strong for what's a really busy 18 months after Christmas."

He has been busy researching what will happen and he has been picking the brain of his close friend Luke Wright who has had the same operation, while also taking solace from seeing Toby Roland-Jones and Stuart Meaker return to action after also having the repair work done.

Broad has been told he could be back in the gym on the bike as soon as two or three days after the operation while the entire rehab programme is expected to take 14 to 15 weeks which brings him towards the end of the year.

"With knees you don't quite know until you get inside," he said. "You can only show much a scan will show. The key is the rehab afterwards to get everything really strong. It's a good time to do it this week because it gives me a four-week period where the season is still on where I can work with the physios.

"It is expected to be a 14-15 week rehab on the knee, maximum, so that January 6 flight to Australia for the tri-series is certainly very achievable. There's a huge amount of time."

And whatever pain, sweat and hard work Broad has to go through over the next few months there is the prospect of opening the bowling against Australia at the MCG on the opening day of the World Cup.

"I've been very fortunate to play 70-odd Tests and 100-odd ODIs, but England-Australia at the MCG to open the World Cup, unless you get to the semi or final, it's as big as you get," he said. "It will be one of those sporting occasions that even if you were just in the crowd you'd say you were there - so the chance to play in it will be very special."

Quite what state England are in when that first ball is bowled remains to be seen.

Stuart Broad was speaking at the NatWest U19 T20 Club Final at Leicestershire CCC. NatWest are committed to sponsoring T20 cricket from grassroots to the top of the professional game. To find out more go to natwest.com/cricket

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • humdrum on September 5, 2014, 4:22 GMT

    Broad's attitude is a telling comment on the current mindset of the present bunch,who simply refuse to believe that a problem exists,let alone try to rectify it.If guys like Swann or Vaughan give advice,the attitude is to shoot the messenger.Well,no wonder Eng have not achieved anything in this forrmat in the last two decades and,by the looks of it. will comfortably stay that way.

  • JG2704 on September 4, 2014, 20:42 GMT

    I thought this thread was meant to be about England's (ability/lack of ability) to play spin.

  • on September 4, 2014, 19:28 GMT

    Broad's commenf goes on to show why England never produced any world class spinner other than swan. Cricket has changed and more so one day and twenty 20. Spinners have a role in all format of the game and day Englanx and ECB realise that will be the day England will progress in World cricket of limited over.

  • StevieS on September 4, 2014, 16:10 GMT

    Cpt.Meanster if test cricket goes then it might as well be renamed because no other format is true cricket. Personally I would like to see unlimited time tests brought back! Nothing better that a 10 day test to test the ultimate in human concentration and determination.

  • fwd079 on September 4, 2014, 15:11 GMT

    Broad's comments has weight. But, need to see who are actual favourites, its not England, but its Australia or more importantly, SA, I don't see any answer for Stayn by any team, except Australia with Mitchell, so SA might just win this one. England however, might reach Semis, even that's a stretch.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on September 4, 2014, 13:23 GMT

    @Cpt.Meanster: You go your way, and let others go theirs. Would I be correct in saying that South Africa once topped the rankings in all three formats? And Australia and England have come close to doing the same, albeit very short lived for England... What I'm trying to say is there is scope + huge desire for all three formats, and if played correctly and players hit some great form, countries can succeed in all three. England/ECB do care about short formats; we just suck at them and seem reluctant to admit it or changes things around. Equally, I'd say India/BCCI care a great deal for tests, but the loss of so many star players virtually all at once is showing. Time is a great healer though. Don't think I've seen a single nasty comment from England fans about players like Kohli & Pujara as we know what they're capable of. They're just in poor form... has that never happened to other players before, even in your short formats? Shorter the format, the more volatile; luck is big factor.

  • Selassie-I on September 4, 2014, 12:07 GMT

    Well, he was hardly going to say 'we're awful against spin and if all the teams pick 3 spinner we're basically done for' was he? although that does appear to be true.

  • SirViv1973 on September 4, 2014, 11:53 GMT

    @dunger.bob, Well said, there was a time when I enoyed posts from @capt Meanster as he could be quite amusing but has been playing the 'get rid of test cricket' card for far too long now so I don't tend to read many of his posts nowadays. @Hogwarts - Not sure if you are a regular poster or if you read all of @dunger bob's post, but he did state that he is from NSW which is Aus and not Eng where FC cricket is the shield & not county championship. If you were referrring to English cricket then the reason for bigger crowds in T20 compared to county cricket is simple. T20's are played at a time which is convient for many ie in the evening after work or on a we afternoon. The fact that the game only lasts around 3 hours is also important to getting the crowds in. 4 day CC games last all day and are generally played during the week when most people are at work.

  • Sameer-hbk on September 4, 2014, 10:54 GMT

    This is funny in a way because it is not "really turning" right now in England either. Yet, England find all new ways to choke against spin in ODI cricket. And yes, the ball might not turn a whole lot in Aus/NZ. But it is not like English batsman can play against quality spinners on those tracks as well. If Ashwin and jadeja trouble them then Mendis, Ajmal or Naraine will do even better. So yes come MCG, spin won't be on top of England's worry list and yet, it will most likely be the reason why they bow out.

  • Boycott_Boycott on September 4, 2014, 10:32 GMT

    I also feel. Some of it is decided by luck and smartness. Duckworth Lewis is one. The pitches should have a balance of both seam, spin and bounce otherwise the matches are not exciting. In Australia the grounds are big and this definitely adds to Australia's favour and they are extremely competitive too. In my opinion, it is a period of change for India and the current lot will get better in tests too. England has these kind of upheavals on and off. This test series was decided on verbals for most of the part. One side did not turn up after the kind of decisions taken hurt their minds. Mind games are going to be a plenty. India had beaten Srilanka quite comfortably before the 2007 World cup and lost to them and Bangladesh quite comfortably since Greg Chappell had taken charge. So these triumphs and failures are just for the moment. The strong teams become better as the tournament progresses. In the last world cup till the last but one game before the knockouts it looked pretty even.

  • humdrum on September 5, 2014, 4:22 GMT

    Broad's attitude is a telling comment on the current mindset of the present bunch,who simply refuse to believe that a problem exists,let alone try to rectify it.If guys like Swann or Vaughan give advice,the attitude is to shoot the messenger.Well,no wonder Eng have not achieved anything in this forrmat in the last two decades and,by the looks of it. will comfortably stay that way.

  • JG2704 on September 4, 2014, 20:42 GMT

    I thought this thread was meant to be about England's (ability/lack of ability) to play spin.

  • on September 4, 2014, 19:28 GMT

    Broad's commenf goes on to show why England never produced any world class spinner other than swan. Cricket has changed and more so one day and twenty 20. Spinners have a role in all format of the game and day Englanx and ECB realise that will be the day England will progress in World cricket of limited over.

  • StevieS on September 4, 2014, 16:10 GMT

    Cpt.Meanster if test cricket goes then it might as well be renamed because no other format is true cricket. Personally I would like to see unlimited time tests brought back! Nothing better that a 10 day test to test the ultimate in human concentration and determination.

  • fwd079 on September 4, 2014, 15:11 GMT

    Broad's comments has weight. But, need to see who are actual favourites, its not England, but its Australia or more importantly, SA, I don't see any answer for Stayn by any team, except Australia with Mitchell, so SA might just win this one. England however, might reach Semis, even that's a stretch.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on September 4, 2014, 13:23 GMT

    @Cpt.Meanster: You go your way, and let others go theirs. Would I be correct in saying that South Africa once topped the rankings in all three formats? And Australia and England have come close to doing the same, albeit very short lived for England... What I'm trying to say is there is scope + huge desire for all three formats, and if played correctly and players hit some great form, countries can succeed in all three. England/ECB do care about short formats; we just suck at them and seem reluctant to admit it or changes things around. Equally, I'd say India/BCCI care a great deal for tests, but the loss of so many star players virtually all at once is showing. Time is a great healer though. Don't think I've seen a single nasty comment from England fans about players like Kohli & Pujara as we know what they're capable of. They're just in poor form... has that never happened to other players before, even in your short formats? Shorter the format, the more volatile; luck is big factor.

  • Selassie-I on September 4, 2014, 12:07 GMT

    Well, he was hardly going to say 'we're awful against spin and if all the teams pick 3 spinner we're basically done for' was he? although that does appear to be true.

  • SirViv1973 on September 4, 2014, 11:53 GMT

    @dunger.bob, Well said, there was a time when I enoyed posts from @capt Meanster as he could be quite amusing but has been playing the 'get rid of test cricket' card for far too long now so I don't tend to read many of his posts nowadays. @Hogwarts - Not sure if you are a regular poster or if you read all of @dunger bob's post, but he did state that he is from NSW which is Aus and not Eng where FC cricket is the shield & not county championship. If you were referrring to English cricket then the reason for bigger crowds in T20 compared to county cricket is simple. T20's are played at a time which is convient for many ie in the evening after work or on a we afternoon. The fact that the game only lasts around 3 hours is also important to getting the crowds in. 4 day CC games last all day and are generally played during the week when most people are at work.

  • Sameer-hbk on September 4, 2014, 10:54 GMT

    This is funny in a way because it is not "really turning" right now in England either. Yet, England find all new ways to choke against spin in ODI cricket. And yes, the ball might not turn a whole lot in Aus/NZ. But it is not like English batsman can play against quality spinners on those tracks as well. If Ashwin and jadeja trouble them then Mendis, Ajmal or Naraine will do even better. So yes come MCG, spin won't be on top of England's worry list and yet, it will most likely be the reason why they bow out.

  • Boycott_Boycott on September 4, 2014, 10:32 GMT

    I also feel. Some of it is decided by luck and smartness. Duckworth Lewis is one. The pitches should have a balance of both seam, spin and bounce otherwise the matches are not exciting. In Australia the grounds are big and this definitely adds to Australia's favour and they are extremely competitive too. In my opinion, it is a period of change for India and the current lot will get better in tests too. England has these kind of upheavals on and off. This test series was decided on verbals for most of the part. One side did not turn up after the kind of decisions taken hurt their minds. Mind games are going to be a plenty. India had beaten Srilanka quite comfortably before the 2007 World cup and lost to them and Bangladesh quite comfortably since Greg Chappell had taken charge. So these triumphs and failures are just for the moment. The strong teams become better as the tournament progresses. In the last world cup till the last but one game before the knockouts it looked pretty even.

  • hogwarts_cricket on September 4, 2014, 9:12 GMT

    @dunger.bob - if you have so much of leisure time then how come you don't have more attendance for 4 day county games lately. Your domestic T-20 competition is drawing a lot more crowd. It gives you an idea or what people in England prefer.

  • PPL11 on September 4, 2014, 8:49 GMT

    @din7 - Dude do you know the team who visited NZ, SA, England is new Indian team visiting these countries first time? yes agreed we struggled in NZ and SA but that does not mean this bunch of players are incompetent, They are only going to improve when they will visit next time !!

  • PPL11 on September 4, 2014, 8:42 GMT

    @vatsap - "Their strength has traditionally been the longer form" - Are you really serious England is mediocre test team at moment, they had good last 3 years (Before Touring Australia) when they had trot, KP, Swan fully firing now they are gone with 5 - 0 thrashing, So England is now basically back to a time where they are no good in any format. Don't worry too much about India, we know how to perform on a big stage.

  • vatsap on September 4, 2014, 8:23 GMT

    I don't think England has anything to worry. Their strength has traditionally been the longer form, with the rare ODI/T20 streak. They won the games that mattered in this tour and that's how this tour is going to be remembered.

    India has done well in the ODI's. It will be good to get a 4-0, however India did not win a single game in NZ nor SA, in fact most games were lost by huge margins. Team India has serious work to do if they are to be considered World beaters, which they certainly are not.

  • Boycott_Boycott on September 4, 2014, 8:20 GMT

    England may well win the world cup. It has been playing the ODI world cup since 1975 and so I think this time it wil be England as God must be an Englishman. However satire apart, England do prepare well for tournaments and bring some new tactics into the game. They become quite predictable because they stick to the game plan and hence if the game changes the tempo they do falter. Bowling needs to improve with James Anderson being kept out of the side as he is not a good ODI bowler. Broad is a good bowler and he has not been smacked for six sixes since the 2007 world cup. In the 2003 world cup they said something to the Indians and they went berserk. In the 2007 world cup, Broad irritated Yuvi and he was bashed for it. So if they want to be knocked out I do hope they say something to the Indians, Pakistanis, Australians. If the rain does not impede we shall see some good games. All the teams have been rebuilding and matches will be quite exciting. Drop Cook. Bopara should captain.

  • on September 4, 2014, 8:17 GMT

    as big as you can get - I cant laugh enough on that. The two countries currently in dismal form in the one-dayers. I agree both the sides have quality fast bowlers and some sparkling batsmen in Maxwell and Hales. But I dont see them being even close to being a complete team. The players are being way too inconsistent for being confident. The opening match is almost boring if you ask me. It is high time England players stopped singing the denial tune and talked about their improvement plans and maybe even gave due consideration to the older players comments. Sometimes they can be harsh critics but many times they might be right cause they have seen and played as much which you should respect.

  • sidh78 on September 4, 2014, 7:46 GMT

    Dear indian team bashers who call india flat track bullies please note the record of india on fast bouncy seaming tracks out side SC 1.india won 2 WC in 1983(ODI)&2007(T20)in eng & SA respe. 2.finalist in 2003 WC in SA 3.won CT 2013 in eng without loosing a single match(including warm up matches) 4.won CB series in aus defeating strong aus team having hayden ponting symond in 2008 in straight 2 finals 5.won Nest West trophy in eng in 2001 6.won U-19 WC in aus in 2013. 7.won test series in eng,NZ,WI 8.Draw test series in SA in 2011(1-1).nearly won that series but kallis inning save SA from defeat but india totally dominate that draw test match 9.nearly draw the test series in aus 2-2 in 2008 if umpiring in that series was not poor. 10.won tri series in WI in 2013. 11.india A team played very well in SA in 2013. Also india won many series & tournaments SL Ban. So if india is flat track bullies how can india have such good records on fast bouncy seaming pitches.

  • SirViv1973 on September 4, 2014, 7:44 GMT

    If spin won't be a factor in Aus/NZL for the WC, can someone please tell me why we are heading off to Sri Lanka in November to play not 3 or 4 or 5 or even 6 but 7 ODIS? on what will surely be rank turning surfaces against a team who will no doubt pack their side 4 or 5 spin options?

  • dunger.bob on September 4, 2014, 6:36 GMT

    @ Cpt.Meanster: "It's a long, boring format which realistically speaking is so early 20th century-ish. This is a modern world where things happen quickly with excitement and drama." This is about the tenth time I've seen you write something along those lines. The first nine times I just let it go through to the keeper, but this time I feel compelled to smack it for six. .. It's just so damn presumptuous. You're an expert on the socio-economic factors that drive peoples leisure time in northern NSW (where I hail from), or Bloomfentein in SA, or Leeds in England are you. You know what our disposal income is, how much leisure time we enjoy and how we choose to spend it do you? .. Mate, unless you happen to be a respected academic in the field you're not in a position to comment about that sort of stuff. .. like I said, it's highly presumptuous and you, one solitary person, are trying to speak for the rest of us as if you actually knew anything about it.

  • on September 4, 2014, 6:08 GMT

    Broad is an extremely competitive fellow and he is very much similar to Freddie in my view.

  • JohnOfCourse on September 4, 2014, 5:32 GMT

    The least convincing post match interview in the history of Cricket. I don't think even Alistair Cook believed his own mantra.

  • din7 on September 4, 2014, 5:26 GMT

    spot on from broad! spin isnt goin to play huge role in aus, nz unless bccci puts pressure to prepare dry tracks so that our dont get knocked out early, eng will perform better than this series as they did in champions trophy in SA right after losin odis to aus one sided, yes they do have problem with slow play etc etc which they will have to look after, still dont understand why ballance wasnt selected from 1st odi despite in good form in tests....@alokkumar hahahah new to cricket? or short term memory loss? ashwin and jadega have fared well only in eng becuase of dry wickets...if they have performed so well outside the subcontinent as u say...why were india blanked in nz 4-0 and SA 3-0..where were they! MEdiocre

  • on September 4, 2014, 5:24 GMT

    Why is Broad acting all high and mighty? The man got hit for six sixes in an over and that too in South Africa. Not exactly breathing fire on faster, bouncy pitches one would say. These English players are more talks than actions. With the red ball no doubt they are menacing but only in English conditions. And the way they played spin in this ODI series , I doubt they would play spin well anywhere, even on ice, let alone Austalian pitches.

  • on September 4, 2014, 5:11 GMT

    "It is probably stretching the notion to suggest England's problems against India's spinners are part of a cunning plan to lull oppositions", now this must be the most hilarious of the reasons we must have heard till now. I am still laughing my guts out. Forget about their batting, their bowling, which Broad might probably be a part of, is also getting trashed left right and center. How can they justing that things will play into their hands.

  • johnathonjosephs on September 4, 2014, 4:52 GMT

    Lol @CaptainMeanster saying that Tests are boring just because India got humiliated. Test Cricket has survived 100+ years, including 2 world wars. Its not going anywhere anytime soon and will always be the superior format as long as the players view it as the superior format (and believe me, all players still do)

  • sweetspot on September 4, 2014, 4:50 GMT

    It doesn't matter what you bowl at England, they do not have the audacity to blast their way up to huge totals. The game has changed as Ian Botham has pointed out, and England have been left behind, woefully behind. Their flair players don't get the respect they should get in the ODI selections, because the 'respected' Test players show up, time after time.

    So Broad thinks leg spinners will do well? Great! India will play Amit Mishra and Karn Sharma against them in Australia!

  • on September 4, 2014, 4:42 GMT

    so - england have batted badly against a strong spin atack and this is good news? you may be on message, stuart broad, but it's a deluded message. england's best chance of doing anything in the world cup is to sweep away the test-centric players (cook, bell, anderson in the main) and replace them with young players who really understand limited overs cricket. why is it that everyone but the england players and selectors don't realise this?

  • WristyFlick101 on September 4, 2014, 4:00 GMT

    Very delusional Mr. Broad.

  • Cpt.Meanster on September 4, 2014, 2:40 GMT

    At some point in time. test cricket needs to go. It's a long, boring format which realistically speaking is so early 20th century-ish. This is a modern world where things happen quickly with excitement and drama. I mean no offence to anybody but tests have had their shot. ODIs should be the only format played internationally. T20s can remain in the form of club cricket like the IPL/BBL etc. If necessary, tests could be played on a periodic basis, say every 4 years for some iconic encounters like the Ashes, India v Pakistan etc. If they want, they can make these contests 5 test affairs at home and away in the same year. But beyond that, tests should be minimized. If England want to win a world cup, they better get 'better' in the best format of the game. Sadly, most of the English public think winning the Ashes is the most important thing compared to a 'world' cup. Even my 5 yr old nephew knows how ludicrous that idea is.

  • dunger.bob on September 4, 2014, 2:08 GMT

    Hmmm. I think Stuey's got it a bit wrong. In Test cricket, sure. Australia is an absolute graveyard for all but the very best spinners and sometimes even they struggle mightily here but LO cricket is a bit different. Our LO pitches WILL take spin and there is a role for the spinners in the World Cup. The best of them will still probably do very well. The dartsmen will still be able to contain but might find it harder to pick up regular wickets. That will be the major difference imo.

  • jb633 on September 3, 2014, 22:32 GMT

    cont... alongside the facts our batsmen are not drilled from a young age to play spin, this creates vast numbers of very average spinners who find taking wickets in club/school/county/university cricket relatively easy. Most young spinners just need to land it on the dot (spin is irrelevant) and the batsmen will do the work for them. When our spinners front up to guys born and bred on a diet of spin (ie India, SL) they are marmalised. I have hammered on this point for 2 years now but the issues with facing and bowling spin in this country is the greatest obstacle to us being a top cricket nation. Without it we are effectively removing wins in half of the cricketing world. We need to look at the SA model of how to create real class. Guys like AB, Du Plessis, Amla can play any bowling on any surface and prosper. Why can we not produce players consistently of this calibre??

  • jb633 on September 3, 2014, 22:26 GMT

    Lets look at facts, Jeetan Patel of Warwickshire seems to be tying batsmen down across the board and is considered the danger man in all 3 formats. Look at his international record, it is very poor. Our young guys are making a failed international player look top draw. What do we really expect to happen when we pick from this pool of players and then our guys go out and have to face Jadeja, Herath, Ajmal et al? There is only going to be one winner. Something our media never like to dwell on is the fact that playing spin is an issue that will not go away. Having recently completed a level 2 ECB course I can tell you there was not one session in the 8 scheduled to pass the course that covers playing spin. So basically our coaches are clueless at how to combat it, so when lads from the ages of 11-15 are growing up they will be drilled to face right arm medium pace. Hence why in county cricket guys can plunder it. However in international cricket right arm medium pace rarely gets a look i

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on September 3, 2014, 22:25 GMT

    I don't really like Broad, and one of the biggest reasons why is because he is so deluded. To be honest I don't think he'll be missed from the teams in short formats - I mean does the guy even know what a yorker is, other than a nickname for a guy from Yorkshire? Can't deny he's become an integral part of the test attack, but in short formats I don't understand the hype over him at all.

    I know it was tests, but does he already forget the trouble Lyon caused with his bounce and awkward speed/angles? Broad's not the only player, past or present, to say/think that spin wont play a role in the WC, but the stats and player rankings for bowlers in short formats tells a completely different story, and a very worrying one for England given their ineptitude at facing them and lack of any wrist-spinners themselves. A clear sign that England are once again burying their heads in the sand and are simply clueless about tactics/conditions for short format cricket.

  • jb633 on September 3, 2014, 22:21 GMT

    The fact of the matter is though it is not just spinners but any bowler of quality. Basically any bowler that doesn't dish up dross will take wickets against England. First it was Ajmal, then it was Herath then it was Philander/Steyn, next it was Boult /Southee then Harris then Johnson and now Jaedja/Kumar. This is not just in ODI cricket but in all 3 formats. The last time England came through against a bowling attack in good form was the UAE ODI series against Pak in 2012 with Ajmal, Afridi et al. Since then we have only been capable of beating sides with weak bowling attacks. When we have been tested by conditions or the quality of bowling we have succumbed. I honestly think the standard of the county game is abysmal. The quality pros no longer exist as they can make enough with IPL contracts and the young players coming through are playing in a pool of mediocrity. Broad can say what he likes but no England fan will believe for a second things look good.

  • on September 3, 2014, 21:57 GMT

    Lol... the only place where spin does not work are the flat lifeless pitches. Spinners are always handy on green tops as well as dusty turners.. Have you not noticed how not so great Ashwin and Jadeja have been more successful outside sub continent off late while stuggled to keep the run rate down and take wickets on some of the flat Indian pitches.

  • on September 3, 2014, 21:50 GMT

    Yet another example of this England set-ups delusional attitude towards their recent one-day failings. It's like they are in their little bubble where everything is fine, it actually comes across as contempt for the regular England fan who can see how badly we are going to do in the World Cup if things don't change.

  • on September 3, 2014, 21:37 GMT

    Broad is right about pitches over there but still we need to learn to play spin and should be able to because many specialise against spin in preparation for future tournaments

  • Big_Poppa_94 on September 3, 2014, 21:23 GMT

    @myStraightTalk: Shame Test Cricket is completely irrelevant and doesn't draw revenues. The ICC would be better off scrapping it. If the poms and aussies want to fawn over Test cricket in the name of fighting over a silly urn, then more power to them. But the ICC should really spare the public from the torture of 5 days of lame.

  • Puffin on September 3, 2014, 21:19 GMT

    That seems alarmingly complacent. Australia and NZ have produced many excellent spinners: if spin was so useless there, they would be forgiven for not bothering.

  • JG2704 on September 3, 2014, 21:08 GMT

    I like Broad but he is a deluded talker at times.

    In ODIs I'm of the belief that ER (as a bowler) and SR (as a batsman) are a very important part of the game.

    Check out the ERs from both teams bowlers from the last ODI series in Australia and tell me that

    A - Spin/slow bowling doesn't work in Australia B - England have no problems in conquering spin in SFs

    Broad says about Tredwell struggling. Yes he took no wickets but the nearest pace bowler to him was .7 an over down on his ER. Over 50 overs that's 35 runs which is quite alot of runs in ODIs. Honestly I feel it's a myth that as a bowling side (in SFs) you need a bowling attack so biased in pace. Also , the way most of our batsmen played some of India's part timers I reckon India should try and get someone in from the crowd to bowl a few overs. I reckon they'd still go at about 4rpo

  • landl47 on September 3, 2014, 20:44 GMT

    Broad just ruled himself out as the captain who will take England where they need to go in ODIs.

    Unfortunately, that does not mean he will not be captain.

  • warnerbasher on September 3, 2014, 20:01 GMT

    Broad might not be concerned about spin in the World Cup but it should be noted that their batsmen did not play pace very well in Oz last summer either. So they can't play spin or pace. Unless they are playing teams with a collection of county style medium pace trundlers they will struggle even against the minnows

  • samincolumbia on September 3, 2014, 19:44 GMT

    There is no guarantee that pacers will be effective in Australia/NZ. As evidenced by Kohli mauling the Lankan trundlers in Hobart couple of years ago, the pitches are not pace friendly either. Granted, SL bowlers are nowhere near aussie or Kiwi standards, no bowler is safe when a batsman is in good form and plays with an open mind, which is not the case with even a single english batsman.

  • CodandChips on September 3, 2014, 19:39 GMT

    (continued)

    Lumb and Ali in the Windies played as accumulators who rotated strike often and scored boundaries when available. This allowed them to score at 6 an over while at the same time providing stability. I don't know what the stats were for their partnerships but I'm sure that they would look better than any recent combination involving Cook or Bell. Of course I'm going on a very small sample size against a poor opposition, but it still remains that the opening combination did well and England won matches. I wonder if the 2 things are linked?

    Hopefully Broad will bolster the bowling but I doubt just the one player will make the difference.

    The problem is that while the batsmen fail to score 300 on a good day, (only if the openers fail does it happen since the more aggressive players have more time to bat), England's bowlers leak runs too often, and so against good batting lineups have no chance of reducing the opposition to less than England scored/will score.

  • CodandChips on September 3, 2014, 19:16 GMT

    Who does Broad think he's kidding?

    I guess you could sort of support Broad's view that England will be fine as spinners won't be effective in Australia/New Zealand. But I can't help but think he comes across terribly.

    First and foremost the loss in the recent ODI wasn't due to spin. The loss in Australia wasn't due to spin. The home losses to Australia and New Zealand weren't due to spin. But I'm sure somebody within the England setup will be able to excuse these all.

    Also it seems like a pretty silly thing to say. Basically we can't play spin but that's not a major issue as not all spinners are successful in those conditions. So is everything all rosy now?

    England are fundamentally flawed but for far more than spin-issues. Lack of runs amongst batsmen is a general one, let alone the pace they're scored at (a point I made pre-series). Last hundred of Cook/Bell? Last time either lasted 30 overs plus? Compare to Lumb and Ali in West Indies (where England won!).

  • perl57 on September 3, 2014, 18:47 GMT

    The real test for cricket is ODIs. Gone are the days when Tests were real test. That was pre-Kerry Packer days. If you really want to test yourself then you need to question, how much money are you getting to your board and what kind of performance are you putting. To answer both is unfair for england. For it is a team which cannot play ODI leave alone slow bowling or fast bowling. Any team can easily score 350 against England and also win convincingly on any ground on earth. Whether it spins or not. Bottom line: As your media correctly points out - England is a laughing stock in ODI cricket.

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on September 3, 2014, 17:50 GMT

    Totally endorse his views.On those all round sporting Aus,NZ pitches,teams relying on spin are going to be fodder for batsmen.A team like Ind whose 'attack' consists of Ashwin,Jadeja,couple of p/timers will be easliy be milked for 350 by same Eng team.

  • SinSpider on September 3, 2014, 17:34 GMT

    Broad's comments are typical of the English players who seem to approaching the game based on hope rather than skill and strategy. It is expected that the pitches in the WC may not be perfect for spin. However the pitches in this ODI series were not big turners either. It is just the inability of the English spinners against the spin/slow bowling that is costing them the matches. They can mask this failure with as many reasons they want, it will only lead to their debacle.

  • myStraightTalk on September 3, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    Any cricket playing nation is judged by the skills in Test Matches and not by the shorter version of the game (ODI and T20). India need a good captain for Test. Both Dhoni and Fletcher has to go or resign from Test cricket. Dhoni want to shine in IPL and he use this ODI as a testing ground.

  • brusselslion on September 3, 2014, 16:50 GMT

    I wish Broad all the best with his operation and recovery. IMO, if fit, he should be part of the England ODI team, however, please spare us the head in the sand, party line comments.

    "You'd imagine the players of the quality playing for England will be able to rotate the score off the spinners" Why? Recent evidence suggests the exact opposite.

    "I don't think (Swann/ Vaughan's) comments would have come if the sun was shining at Bristol. I think it was bored comments watching the rain fall," Again, why not? They were only stating what most England fans feel.

    "We haven't played as well as we'd want but we are building towards the World Cup. I've no doubt we can be really competitive in the World Cup. I've got full belief we are playing the right way, the guys just need to show more skill." Well, at least the first & last phrases are correct!

    Anyway, so everything's rosy. As the captain of the Titanic didn't say: "Nothing to worry about. The sun will soon melt that iceberg!"

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  • brusselslion on September 3, 2014, 16:50 GMT

    I wish Broad all the best with his operation and recovery. IMO, if fit, he should be part of the England ODI team, however, please spare us the head in the sand, party line comments.

    "You'd imagine the players of the quality playing for England will be able to rotate the score off the spinners" Why? Recent evidence suggests the exact opposite.

    "I don't think (Swann/ Vaughan's) comments would have come if the sun was shining at Bristol. I think it was bored comments watching the rain fall," Again, why not? They were only stating what most England fans feel.

    "We haven't played as well as we'd want but we are building towards the World Cup. I've no doubt we can be really competitive in the World Cup. I've got full belief we are playing the right way, the guys just need to show more skill." Well, at least the first & last phrases are correct!

    Anyway, so everything's rosy. As the captain of the Titanic didn't say: "Nothing to worry about. The sun will soon melt that iceberg!"

  • myStraightTalk on September 3, 2014, 17:17 GMT

    Any cricket playing nation is judged by the skills in Test Matches and not by the shorter version of the game (ODI and T20). India need a good captain for Test. Both Dhoni and Fletcher has to go or resign from Test cricket. Dhoni want to shine in IPL and he use this ODI as a testing ground.

  • SinSpider on September 3, 2014, 17:34 GMT

    Broad's comments are typical of the English players who seem to approaching the game based on hope rather than skill and strategy. It is expected that the pitches in the WC may not be perfect for spin. However the pitches in this ODI series were not big turners either. It is just the inability of the English spinners against the spin/slow bowling that is costing them the matches. They can mask this failure with as many reasons they want, it will only lead to their debacle.

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on September 3, 2014, 17:50 GMT

    Totally endorse his views.On those all round sporting Aus,NZ pitches,teams relying on spin are going to be fodder for batsmen.A team like Ind whose 'attack' consists of Ashwin,Jadeja,couple of p/timers will be easliy be milked for 350 by same Eng team.

  • perl57 on September 3, 2014, 18:47 GMT

    The real test for cricket is ODIs. Gone are the days when Tests were real test. That was pre-Kerry Packer days. If you really want to test yourself then you need to question, how much money are you getting to your board and what kind of performance are you putting. To answer both is unfair for england. For it is a team which cannot play ODI leave alone slow bowling or fast bowling. Any team can easily score 350 against England and also win convincingly on any ground on earth. Whether it spins or not. Bottom line: As your media correctly points out - England is a laughing stock in ODI cricket.

  • CodandChips on September 3, 2014, 19:16 GMT

    Who does Broad think he's kidding?

    I guess you could sort of support Broad's view that England will be fine as spinners won't be effective in Australia/New Zealand. But I can't help but think he comes across terribly.

    First and foremost the loss in the recent ODI wasn't due to spin. The loss in Australia wasn't due to spin. The home losses to Australia and New Zealand weren't due to spin. But I'm sure somebody within the England setup will be able to excuse these all.

    Also it seems like a pretty silly thing to say. Basically we can't play spin but that's not a major issue as not all spinners are successful in those conditions. So is everything all rosy now?

    England are fundamentally flawed but for far more than spin-issues. Lack of runs amongst batsmen is a general one, let alone the pace they're scored at (a point I made pre-series). Last hundred of Cook/Bell? Last time either lasted 30 overs plus? Compare to Lumb and Ali in West Indies (where England won!).

  • CodandChips on September 3, 2014, 19:39 GMT

    (continued)

    Lumb and Ali in the Windies played as accumulators who rotated strike often and scored boundaries when available. This allowed them to score at 6 an over while at the same time providing stability. I don't know what the stats were for their partnerships but I'm sure that they would look better than any recent combination involving Cook or Bell. Of course I'm going on a very small sample size against a poor opposition, but it still remains that the opening combination did well and England won matches. I wonder if the 2 things are linked?

    Hopefully Broad will bolster the bowling but I doubt just the one player will make the difference.

    The problem is that while the batsmen fail to score 300 on a good day, (only if the openers fail does it happen since the more aggressive players have more time to bat), England's bowlers leak runs too often, and so against good batting lineups have no chance of reducing the opposition to less than England scored/will score.

  • samincolumbia on September 3, 2014, 19:44 GMT

    There is no guarantee that pacers will be effective in Australia/NZ. As evidenced by Kohli mauling the Lankan trundlers in Hobart couple of years ago, the pitches are not pace friendly either. Granted, SL bowlers are nowhere near aussie or Kiwi standards, no bowler is safe when a batsman is in good form and plays with an open mind, which is not the case with even a single english batsman.

  • warnerbasher on September 3, 2014, 20:01 GMT

    Broad might not be concerned about spin in the World Cup but it should be noted that their batsmen did not play pace very well in Oz last summer either. So they can't play spin or pace. Unless they are playing teams with a collection of county style medium pace trundlers they will struggle even against the minnows

  • landl47 on September 3, 2014, 20:44 GMT

    Broad just ruled himself out as the captain who will take England where they need to go in ODIs.

    Unfortunately, that does not mean he will not be captain.