West Indies v Pakistan, 2nd Test, St Kitts, 5th day May 24, 2011

Richards concerned by Ajmal's doosra

95

Saeed Ajmal, the Pakistan offspinner, has had his bowling action called into question by Viv Richards. Ajmal was the Man of the Series for his 17 wickets in two Tests against West Indies, but concerns have been raised over the legality of his action.

"Let me put it as mildly and as diplomatically as it can be put," Richards told ESPNcricinfo. "When you look at bowling actions for offspinners in the world at present, the [15 degree] rule made by the ICC has bred what we've seen this series. I wouldn't be blatant as some others, but the rules have helped the freaky stuff we have at present. It accommodates doosras and things we see like that."

The decision to allow a bend in the arm up to 15 degrees was introduced after biomechanical experts found the majority of bowlers had a minor flex in their actions. It is felt, however, that some offspinners struggle to deliver the doosra within those limits. Richards is the latest to voice concern over Ajmal's action, with former fast-bowler Michael Holding and veteran West Indian journalist Tony Cozier having spoken out on the doosra during the course of the series.

Though West Indies may feel uneasy about Ajmal, they also batted woefully against Pakistan's other spinners. During the 196-run defeat at St Kitts, 15 of the 20 wickets fell to spin, with Ajmal taking three in each innings. The batsmen were not much better in the first Test in Guyana, which West Indies won, losing all but three wickets to Pakistan's trio of spinners.

"The problem is that whenever they [West Indies] are confronted by top-class spinners they freeze," Richards said. "It's creating a paranoia and someone needs to ask the batsmen what's needed. I think they need to prepare for the bowlers they are going to face better and watch them more regularly. [At the moment] they just go out and rely on guesswork."

Despite the lost opportunity to win the series, Richards backed the management of the captain Darren Sammy and coach Ottis Gibson. Both had been under intense scrutiny after a poor World Cup and the shambles over Chris Gayle's exclusion and his decision to play in the IPL.

Sammy answered many of his critics with a match haul of seven wickets to deliver victory in Guyana, and Richards felt that performance was crucial to his survival as captain. "What's been on peoples' minds is his contribution to the team as a player," Richards said. "The match in Guyana helped to eradicate some of that stuff. When he was first touted as captain I backed him because I thought he would bring a bit more thought to the role.

"He said the right things about moving the team forward and I backed him to bring camaraderie and togetherness as a leader. Recently his lack of form was concerning people but he silenced that."

His support of Gibson was more reserved but he was happy with the appointment of former opener Desmond Haynes as batting consultant for the series. "I don't doubt [Gibson's] ability as a coach but Ottis needed some help when he started. I felt he needed assistance, as they have done with Desmond Haynes leading on the batting side of things. Ottis can add something to the bowlers, who are in need of help."

Viv Richards was speaking to ESPNcricinfo to promote Fire in Babylon which was released in UK cinemas last Friday but will be out on DVD on June 6.

Sahil Dutta is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • usmanmansur on May 27, 2011, 6:53 GMT

    richards n holding have a point only one offspinner bolwed a doosra without his action being questioned and that was saqlain rest were dubious so if saqlain can do it without the 15 degrees then why cant the others aswell

  • on May 26, 2011, 11:21 GMT

    Ajmal's reply to Richards is the picture in this article. He'll let his fingers do the talking ;)

  • shawnsundar on May 26, 2011, 1:48 GMT

    So they can't bat spin, but then choose turning wickets and only play one spinner. Then they complain.

  • on May 25, 2011, 23:34 GMT

    Just pathetic comment by Viv. I support Saeed Ajmal on every ground. And if we're talking about fairplay, bend the rules of cricket so that they're favorable to both batsman and bowler and not just batsman. What the hell is wrong with you guys. You want a grill a bowler to such an extent that he just comes and becomes and puppet for a batsman. Just ridiculous!

  • dragline on May 25, 2011, 23:33 GMT

    i would like to suggest the following team selection for the series against india;

    T20( Gayle, Simmons, Darren Bravo, Samuels, Kirk Edwards, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Taylor, Rampaul, & Bishoo)

    ODI ( Gayle, Simmons, Darren Bravo, Deonarine, Samuels, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Rampaul, Roach & Bishoo)

    Test (Gayle, Barath, Darren Bravo, Sarwan, Samuels, Simmons(wk), Dwayne Bravo, Sammy, Rampaul, Roach & Bishoo).

    i think we would need to find a way to play Fidel Edwards in ODI and Test.

  • Molu14 on May 25, 2011, 23:21 GMT

    The way I see it, bowlers are no longer needed in the game of cricket, according to the general public. Sides should pick eleven batsmen each and then face bowling machines; the side that makes more runs wins and te bowling machines couldbe set to a constant pace to avoid controversy...and Jonathan Swift thought he was the master of satire he he he

  • dragline on May 25, 2011, 21:46 GMT

    ajmal may have an action problem, but the fact remains that our batsmen continues to freeze against spin bowling and much work needs to be done in this area. maybe against india we can get lara to also asist our guys with their game in this regard.

    i must applaud ottis for his reccommendation for desmond haynes as batting consultant, i believe it is step in the right direction. i would like to see a fielding coach, and a spin bowling coach to work with bishoo (may be the likes of a shane warn). we must invest in our players if their game is going to improve.

    i hope we will allow lindl simmons to keep in all format of the game to allow the extra batsman to play- he can't do worst than bough. i also would like to see deonarine of guyana back in the team, he has serve west indies cricket well and he is also fit. he is also a more worthy investment than chanderpaul.

    i wish the guys all the best for the upcoming tour.

  • Redbacks_Bite on May 25, 2011, 18:32 GMT

    @Hoque Saiful Islam -@- Dude you're funny. Bernard Bosanquet actually bowled Googly in 1903. ask ur elders. Also, the reverse swing pratcised in 1940's in England with little success. So basically you're so called inventors came way too late in the game. :)

  • imran1970 on May 25, 2011, 15:27 GMT

    Please let's not call the legends sore loosers or lets not hurl abuse at each others. We all olve the beautiful game. We all are lover of cricket here. I myself was a first class cricketer about 19-20 years ago. What I'm trying to say is to make the game more interesting give more to "bowlers". Let's play in uncovered pitches again. But Please make sure Bowlers are bowling not throwing. Dusra, Tisra or whatever ... Please let them bowl it, not throw it. For me strighting of albow is throwing. In the name of making it interesting don't say the "let's have the fielders on horse back". I sure all will understand what I'm trying to say. Qadir, Lacker, Imran, Hadlee or any of those bowlers did not need the 15 degree rule.

  • on May 25, 2011, 15:10 GMT

    I guess Australians and Englishmen played Ajmal well. West Indies batsmen are poor against spin yet they prepared pitches which turned. It's a shame that Legendary players like Viv and Holding are questioning action of a player when the batsmen themselves are incapable. Moreover it's an art of bowling and within the legal implications, which is fair considering the dominance of bat in recent years.

  • usmanmansur on May 27, 2011, 6:53 GMT

    richards n holding have a point only one offspinner bolwed a doosra without his action being questioned and that was saqlain rest were dubious so if saqlain can do it without the 15 degrees then why cant the others aswell

  • on May 26, 2011, 11:21 GMT

    Ajmal's reply to Richards is the picture in this article. He'll let his fingers do the talking ;)

  • shawnsundar on May 26, 2011, 1:48 GMT

    So they can't bat spin, but then choose turning wickets and only play one spinner. Then they complain.

  • on May 25, 2011, 23:34 GMT

    Just pathetic comment by Viv. I support Saeed Ajmal on every ground. And if we're talking about fairplay, bend the rules of cricket so that they're favorable to both batsman and bowler and not just batsman. What the hell is wrong with you guys. You want a grill a bowler to such an extent that he just comes and becomes and puppet for a batsman. Just ridiculous!

  • dragline on May 25, 2011, 23:33 GMT

    i would like to suggest the following team selection for the series against india;

    T20( Gayle, Simmons, Darren Bravo, Samuels, Kirk Edwards, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Taylor, Rampaul, & Bishoo)

    ODI ( Gayle, Simmons, Darren Bravo, Deonarine, Samuels, Dwayne Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Rampaul, Roach & Bishoo)

    Test (Gayle, Barath, Darren Bravo, Sarwan, Samuels, Simmons(wk), Dwayne Bravo, Sammy, Rampaul, Roach & Bishoo).

    i think we would need to find a way to play Fidel Edwards in ODI and Test.

  • Molu14 on May 25, 2011, 23:21 GMT

    The way I see it, bowlers are no longer needed in the game of cricket, according to the general public. Sides should pick eleven batsmen each and then face bowling machines; the side that makes more runs wins and te bowling machines couldbe set to a constant pace to avoid controversy...and Jonathan Swift thought he was the master of satire he he he

  • dragline on May 25, 2011, 21:46 GMT

    ajmal may have an action problem, but the fact remains that our batsmen continues to freeze against spin bowling and much work needs to be done in this area. maybe against india we can get lara to also asist our guys with their game in this regard.

    i must applaud ottis for his reccommendation for desmond haynes as batting consultant, i believe it is step in the right direction. i would like to see a fielding coach, and a spin bowling coach to work with bishoo (may be the likes of a shane warn). we must invest in our players if their game is going to improve.

    i hope we will allow lindl simmons to keep in all format of the game to allow the extra batsman to play- he can't do worst than bough. i also would like to see deonarine of guyana back in the team, he has serve west indies cricket well and he is also fit. he is also a more worthy investment than chanderpaul.

    i wish the guys all the best for the upcoming tour.

  • Redbacks_Bite on May 25, 2011, 18:32 GMT

    @Hoque Saiful Islam -@- Dude you're funny. Bernard Bosanquet actually bowled Googly in 1903. ask ur elders. Also, the reverse swing pratcised in 1940's in England with little success. So basically you're so called inventors came way too late in the game. :)

  • imran1970 on May 25, 2011, 15:27 GMT

    Please let's not call the legends sore loosers or lets not hurl abuse at each others. We all olve the beautiful game. We all are lover of cricket here. I myself was a first class cricketer about 19-20 years ago. What I'm trying to say is to make the game more interesting give more to "bowlers". Let's play in uncovered pitches again. But Please make sure Bowlers are bowling not throwing. Dusra, Tisra or whatever ... Please let them bowl it, not throw it. For me strighting of albow is throwing. In the name of making it interesting don't say the "let's have the fielders on horse back". I sure all will understand what I'm trying to say. Qadir, Lacker, Imran, Hadlee or any of those bowlers did not need the 15 degree rule.

  • on May 25, 2011, 15:10 GMT

    I guess Australians and Englishmen played Ajmal well. West Indies batsmen are poor against spin yet they prepared pitches which turned. It's a shame that Legendary players like Viv and Holding are questioning action of a player when the batsmen themselves are incapable. Moreover it's an art of bowling and within the legal implications, which is fair considering the dominance of bat in recent years.

  • Afridipak on May 25, 2011, 14:29 GMT

    They loose this is why they are saying that

  • IPSY on May 25, 2011, 14:16 GMT

    I don't know what is Sir Viv's beef with Ajmal. I think the great man should refrain from attacking bowlers with his comments/mouth now, because he was too great at doing them that with his bat, during his time. That's what he did when he played and what he should be encouraging the WI batsmen to do now; and leave the ICC and the umpires do their job. I think this is a fair comment because both he and the Gt Brian Lara (the two best we've seen) have demonstrated to all the other batsmen in the world that the best way to deal with any bowler is not to bother with their action and their sledging; but instead, present them with the most ferocious of shots from the middle of their bats. That is what the WI batsmen should have been doing Ajmal and Co. But asking any other batsman to do what Viv and Lara did, might be asking too much; but they must try - Ajmal is not not even a fraction as effective as Murali, I think one of them with the right attitude might have been able to counter him.

  • satishbabuk on May 25, 2011, 14:01 GMT

    People start picking at bowlers when they cant/don't know how to bat against. I think what technically sound batsmen like sachin and dravid will do is , they start thinking of how to handle the bowler. So better Richards should start teaching their batsman that first.

  • on May 25, 2011, 13:50 GMT

    I agree! let's tie their knees together and put castes on their arms so we can make certain that batsman do not have the problem with respect to getting out!

    Same on you Viv and Holding for your pathetic display of crying...

  • tezo35 on May 25, 2011, 13:26 GMT

    Again it appears as if individuals are trying to pull the wool over their eyes. The issue here is not the comments by Holding and Richards. The issue here is the action. If it is suspect then it should be analyzed. I do agree that the West indian batsmen do need to learn to play spin but playing within the rules of cricket should be the objective. If when the bowler (any bowler for that matter) is analyzed and he is shown to be clean, we can rest the matter. But if it is not clean then steps should be taken to ensure fairplay. On the ability to bowl the doosra fairly, evidence shows that the exponents of this art form do not do so with the greatest of ease. This lack of comfort can promote a bending of the arm in an effort to ease that comfort. Replays also have shown that there is some suspect appearances to the delivery. Please let us be objective in our statements and promote fairplay instead of bashing others differences in opinions.

  • on May 25, 2011, 12:47 GMT

    @ Down_Under , Googly is what South Asian countries called a Doosra.....mr.u dnt know wht is googly ( by abdul quadir) or wht is dosra...ask ur elders. googly is by a leg spinner...bowl other direction but same action.....n Dosra( by Saqline mustaq) is by offspinner ....bowl other direction in same action...two grt bowler of histry blessed cricket with their creativity..so as sarfaraz nawaz who invented the lethal Reverse swing wht others can do in 2011,so u r taking it legally but..but ib dosra n googly world is still poor so they talk more abt it.brother plz learn to encourage who can do innovative.tnk u all.

  • on May 25, 2011, 12:04 GMT

    As a West Indian fan I am ashamed to say that Viv Richards and Michael Holding are behaving like a bunch sour grapes

  • on May 25, 2011, 12:03 GMT

    A typical statement from a looser and batsman, keep on eliminating privilages that bowlers should have give it all to batsman dead tracks to play at you cant bowl more thn allowed bouncers cant take more thn 2 man behind squre common man what is goin on kill the bowlers and hit sixes on straight delivires wont help cricket, T20 is goin to dent crricket badly if it is not controlled.

  • Lahori_Munde on May 25, 2011, 11:38 GMT

    Also to add, Googly is what South Asian countries called a Doosra. Googly is bowled for years, way before Suqlain and Harbajan were even born. The facts of the matter is that Ajmal's action is illegal when he is bowling Doosra. I am sure BCCI will help him come clean once again, just the way they did with Soaib and Murali.

  • 1_234 on May 25, 2011, 11:34 GMT

    eliminate bowlers from cricket, introduce matches with batsmen playing bowling machines bowling straight deliveries.

  • imran1970 on May 25, 2011, 10:37 GMT

    rustyryan: Yes you're right bowler should be allowed to bowl not throw doosra. beautiful: Yes the gome should be allowed to proceed, but the game will be killed by allowing bowlers to throw and not bowl.

  • imran1970 on May 25, 2011, 10:33 GMT

    Like it or not, the legends are right. I don't have a problem with doosra but the way it's thrown is not roght. Yes, it's clearly thrown... I really don't understand this 15 degree thing. For me it's throwing or bowling.

  • Stark62 on May 25, 2011, 10:19 GMT

    Umm........

    He had the latest technology tests done on him in Aus whether, his action was legal or not and the results were positive hence, why his still playing.

    But if people like you, who think they know more then scientists and technology itself then, please do become a scientist and conduct a test for yourself!

  • reality_check on May 25, 2011, 9:40 GMT

    Memo to Mr. Richards and Mr. Holding. Doosra is an art just like reverse swing. Bowlers have to master these arts. Not every offspinner can bowl doosra within 15 degree limit allowed by ICC. Richards is implying that "just because bowler can bend the arm 15 degrees, they can bowl doosra at will". WRONG !! or else every offspinner will be bowling doosras at will with the accuracy of Ajmal. Botha is trying but he is not there yet as Ajmal. Instead of criticizing a bowlers action, WI should concentrate on playing spin... any kind of spin.

  • on May 25, 2011, 9:18 GMT

    It would be better if Richards concentrated on being the great batsman he was, rather than a sore loser.

  • beautiful on May 25, 2011, 8:59 GMT

    Viv Richards was not used to Doosra because it did not exixt in his time. So don't he keep quiet and let the game proceed. When you cannot read doosra like the WI batsmen than you complain. Be sporting and accept reality.

  • drnn29 on May 25, 2011, 8:56 GMT

    I guess before pointing finger towards Ajmal, Richard should see the bowling action of Murli.

  • on May 25, 2011, 8:45 GMT

    its a shame when legends of cricket like Viv Richards & Michael Holding say such things, in the interview itself, Viv admits "The problem is that whenever they [West Indies] are confronted by top-class spinners they freeze," so is it really Ajmal's fault or WI batsmen's? Pakistan has produced some great bowlers, throughout our history we've been bowler heavy, from pacers to spinners, why cant the batsmen learn to bat, the cricket is already too much batsman friendly!

  • 1_234 on May 25, 2011, 8:25 GMT

    Let us also ban fast bowlers bowling over 80 mph. Let us also ban batsmen playing reverse sweep.

    Only under arm bowling should be allowed: no 15 degree, no dosra, no spin ...

  • SachinLara1 on May 25, 2011, 7:54 GMT

    Nothing wrong with ajmal's doosra...batsmen can hit any shots thn y not bowler show some variation....

  • simonviller on May 25, 2011, 6:35 GMT

    This test match could easily have been drawn or ended more in West Indies favour had it not been for irresponsible batting in the first innings by the two most settled batsmen on two occasions . When a batsman is settled ,he has to think of the team and in so doing ,stay at the crease in this case as long as possible instead of going for big hits like Samuels and Sammy did ,this could have made the difference . It shows that the pitch was good for batting , as shown by the lower order West Indians and all the Packistan players . We have to work on these things W.I ,if we are to move up .

  • rustyryan on May 25, 2011, 6:35 GMT

    If the batsmen are allowed to play reverses sweep, why not bowlers shouldnt be allowd to bowl doosra.

  • AjSilverblack on May 25, 2011, 6:32 GMT

    Imagine legalizing chucking? Will any team score more than 100 runs in a test match... Maybe that should be the way forward with the bashing going on in T20 cricket. Batsmen will complain about everything. Go play in the by lanes, streets and fields and then you can watch the ball properly and gauge and handle any turn, bounce or skidders. Grow up batsmen. Make cricket interesting. If all you are capable is hitting sixes of half volleys and full tosses, shame. There might have been only two or three sixes in the entire Indian premier league which would have been hooked of shorter deliveries. The rest would have been ducked by these so called great batsmen. Before anyone goes ballistic, I play and enjoy batting, bowling and fielding. Westindies cricket has lost out to baseball, basketball, football and athletics. Wish that was same in India.

  • SachinLara1 on May 25, 2011, 6:22 GMT

    Ajmal is better bowler than swann but he s underrated.he has good variations...from Indian

  • rumcork69 on May 25, 2011, 6:20 GMT

    Vic Richards should put the blame on the management of cricket grounds in the West Indies and not on the Saeed Ajmal Doosra. This tour should have been a home series for West Indies but it turn out to be a home series for pakistan. Hats off to the West Indies for winning the first test. But Viv and legends need to call it as they see it, not blame by Ajmal. The wickets in the west indies with the exception on Barbados, has been very poor for a long time.

  • simonviller on May 25, 2011, 6:15 GMT

    " like the Phoenix we shall rise from the ashes " ; so shall it be to all you non believers who are now bashing our team, past and present players. We shall return with vengeance against our tormentors ,we shall crush the weak and destroy the strong and that will be very soon ,for you know not what you have done . Beware of this wounded lion , for it has had enough !!! Go West Indies !!!

  • on May 25, 2011, 5:55 GMT

    Richard has gone mad....The series was full of art of quality spin bowling from Team Pakistan...

  • on May 25, 2011, 5:43 GMT

    My dear Viv, forget Ajmal and get ready to face Indian wizards. I am sure on turning pitches like these, Harbajan and Co. will make mesh of WI batting.And be ready Sir Richards, Indian Batting does not crumble like Pakistan in first test, so stop whining and prepare yourself for total brown wash of 1 T20, 5ODIs and 3 tests. Meanwhile Holding and you can think excuse for Indian Sonami.

  • on May 25, 2011, 5:34 GMT

    since Australians, South Africans, West Indies can't play the ball given by South Asian bowlers they always have an excuse that the action has a problem like when they could not face now known as reverse swing they had an excuse that the bowl got old so what is going to be next excuse.

  • on May 25, 2011, 5:33 GMT

    Such complaints would be more credible from a team that has won the match. How come they didnt say a thing after the first test? Get over it WI and win the next one for Carib pride.

  • heat-seeker on May 25, 2011, 5:29 GMT

    @Clint Nelson - Lara was brilliant against spin, but even he was clueless against Saqlain's doosra in the 1997 tour of Pakistan. Saqlain was the real inventor and master, not Murali. Murali hadn't even developed his doosra in 2001 when Lara brilliantly dominated him. (And don't forget that the great Viv Richards himself struggled to pick the variations of B Chandrasekhar of India, though he didn't have a doosra, and had acknowledged him as one of the toughest bowlers to face)

  • KINGIFILL on May 25, 2011, 5:28 GMT

    @ Sheraz Younus if u cant recall shane shillingford is an off spinner n when he did his set of damage in sri lanka seris last year with his doosra n normal delivery he was force to change his action that a fact so check yours. plus i also believe it only West Indians are made to change their action, and the day ajmal does his damage against the top ranked teams with his doosra is when he will have to change his and that day will come very soon and another thing why do you think he only bowls 1 or 2 doosras against AUS n ENG?

  • heat-seeker on May 25, 2011, 5:28 GMT

    @Clint Nelson - Lara was brilliant against spin, but even he was clueless against Saqlain's doosra in the 1997 tour of Pakistan. Saqlain was the real inventor and master, not Murali. Murali hadn't even developed his doosra in 2001 when Lara brilliantly dominated him. (And don't forget that the great Viv Richards himself struggled to pick the variations of B Chandrasekhar of India, though he didn't have a doosra, and had acknowledged him as one of the toughest bowlers to face)

  • Badreshian on May 25, 2011, 5:27 GMT

    I think Ajmal, Hafeez, Rehman and Afridi, all should be banned from bowling spin and should only be allowed when learn how to bowl fast..... Very disappointing by Great Viv what we also expects from some other Cricketing nations,,, Aus...Eng...

  • anver777 on May 25, 2011, 5:25 GMT

    A googly by Richards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • em.umair on May 25, 2011, 5:23 GMT

    If you can't play it, it's illegal. But if you can bowl it, that's legal. Cool strategy!!

  • cricpolitics on May 25, 2011, 5:18 GMT

    Ajmal has been bowling for a long time now and he is being criticized only because he has taken wickets against a team who just can not handle spin be it doosra or normal delivery. Why not just ban every kind of tricky delivery so that batsmen can just play as long as they want. Come on and let this debate go now so that we could have some balanced game between the batsmen and the bowlers. If you want to ban doosra then you must also ban the batsmen palying a reverse sweep or some other freaky shots since it is also a doosra from the batting point of view. If fielders are not allowed to change their positions while the ball is being bowled then how come a batsman is allowed to change his stance during the same course. The balance is just too much in favor of the batsmen so Doosra must stay since it's a skill which not every bowler can master. If you ban doosra today then there will also be a campaign to ban reverse swing one day. Let the game be interesting.

  • vineetkarthi on May 25, 2011, 5:15 GMT

    Many of those criticizing Viv Richards here have mixed up two separate points - poor WI batting and poor bowling actions. Yes, the WI batsmen struggle against any quality bowler and so on. But does that make bent arms legal. I think not. the doosra should be banned irrespective of who is bowling it (so let it not become a regional issue). Pitches should be improved and made even for both batsmen and bowlers. And if that cannot be enforced, why not go the full distance and make chucking legal - why stop at 15 degrees, whatever that may mean.

  • on May 25, 2011, 5:09 GMT

    If you take away the doosra it will take away the excitement of watching a good offspinner, as long as the action is within the 15 degrees rule i have no worries with doosra's or offspinners. if you take away the doosra, it is too hard for a ofspinner to force a wicket, he would be relying on the batsman mistake/ patients too much, look at some spinners (vettori) bowls full, line and length all on stumps, keeps run down, doesnt spin it, no doosra, still gets wickets but he has to bowl all day for 3 or 4 wickets = BORING TO WATCH, every shot "forward defence" with some "nudged around the corner" or "down the ground drives" Its just boring. When the ball is spinning both ways and batter can't pick it , then it is so exciting to watch as it looks as if the batsman could get out off nearly every ball and it is a great contest

  • DeenNimash on May 25, 2011, 4:59 GMT

    So far no bowler complaint about doosra or any action, only the batsman complaining because they can´face these diliveries, If you Can´t play doosra as a batsman you should not play cricket, batsman can play any shot like revers and scoop ect, why can´t bowler try something else, if WI win this match I don´t think any issue raise againts Pak bowlers everytime subcontinent team win they always come up with some short of illigal thing.

  • on May 25, 2011, 4:44 GMT

    Did i heard someone is crying now... typical Mr Mike and Viv couldn't win but cant take the loss and blame it on the bowler. INSTEAD OF CRYING ON SPILL MILK WHY DON'T YOU GIVE YOUR COUNTRY SOME BETTER PLAYERS WHO CAN ACTUALLY PLAY. I bet if bishoo knew Dosra these 8 year old Kids were saying something totally different.

  • Navaid-Hussain on May 25, 2011, 4:35 GMT

    In 70s and 80s most of the WI fast bowlers action were suspected and most batsmen's were unable to cop and victim of that. At that time many questions were raised. Richard and Holding were the part of that, but never said anything. Simply they have and they are the part of that. Now situation is different they do not have and they are questioning it. It's batter to let ICC decide. One day we may heard for some corner that guglee should be banned because modern batsmen's are unable to read.

  • on May 25, 2011, 4:25 GMT

    doosra is called doosra bcoz it could not be accomplished with the normal "pehla" bowling action

  • on May 25, 2011, 4:25 GMT

    I don't see anything wrong with Saeed Ajmal's doosra, looks pretty ok in normal speed, certainly better then a Johan Botha and Harbhajan Singh's off spinners. If you start slowing down the speed and start checking, as Mark Taylor once said, only leg spinners and medium pacers would be left in cricket.

  • on May 25, 2011, 4:18 GMT

    @CandidIndian...right. Whole cricket is trying to protect the batsmen but no one is looking after the bowlers. I have listened to Saeed Ajmal and he tells that he CAN NOT bowl within 15 degrees limit because he has a fracture in the elbow. Its not that he does not want bowl within 15 degrees. By the way, he is already cleared by ICC that he can bowl upto 23.5 degrees legally because of fracture.

  • nzcricket174 on May 25, 2011, 4:13 GMT

    Yeah let's ban the doosra. Let's also ban googlies and flippers. Hold up, let's also ban spinning the ball. While we're at it we'll drag in the boundaries another 8 metres and introduce a new rule where its illegal to call a batsmen out unless he is clean bowled.

  • on May 25, 2011, 4:06 GMT

    West Indies is no longer the side decorated with half a dozen Knighthoods. But even at that, they rarely produced spinners just as their problem facing them. Today, their overall plight is a different one and sad- hopefully they can return half as good - they are a happy lot who enjoy their cricket.

    As to Pakistan's Ajmal, he is not the first who is/will be on the radar- they have already lost a few - seamer Shabbir was a great find. The problem is, they are sooner replaced by others. If any example of double standard - take Murli Dharan. Some body's disability- another's handicap- the result - all time best spinner. Now how wld. you beat that?

  • Hindh on May 25, 2011, 4:04 GMT

    The match was lost by the windies when they let last wicket stand for pak in 1 innings. and dropping catches in 2nd innings. So it was more of Windies losing the match than pak winning it. but overall Pak wud be disappointed that they were only able to draw a series against a weak windies team.

  • CandidIndian on May 25, 2011, 3:39 GMT

    Well i dont agree that Doosra comes in the category of freaky stuff, game is too much in favor of batsman and such variations are important to level the game to a certain extent.Also its clear that ICC had to change the rules because Doosra cannot be bowled without bending the arm.If Ajmal has suspected action, i think the switch hit which Peterson bowls is totally wrong too.This so called freaky stuff got invented as most of the pitches are made in favor of batsman and not bowlers.Actually such statements just puts pressure on the bowler which is totally uncalled for, Murali was the worst victim of this debate, then Harbhajan , now questions are being raised about Ajmal's action, i think its totally unfair.However no disrespect meant here for Great Viv Richards.

  • JohnMcClean on May 25, 2011, 2:58 GMT

    The Doozra s hould be banned because I truly believe it pushes the bowler to bowl an illegal delivery. I got bowled with an illegal Doozra while playing last week. The guy actually pelted the ball at me and it turned square and knocked my leg stump.

  • KSurin on May 25, 2011, 2:19 GMT

    It is not about individual bowlers, since the ICC's remediation system is flawed. The tests of a bowler's suspect action take place in a university biomechanical lab, and of course any bowler will be on their best behaviour there. The real test has to be in actual match conditions, and with today's video technology this can be done. Today's tv replays showed Ajmal's doosra to involve at least 30 degrees of arm flex. The ICC has to hold the line at the 15 degrees of flex or else have no line at all. What it can't allow is some bowlers to exceed this standard while others are required to bowl within it.

  • NaveenBL on May 25, 2011, 1:50 GMT

    @ Clint Nelson - Please read the article carefully. Viv never said that it's the flawed action of bowlers why the batsmen can't bat. He is only talking about how the rule has allowed some freaky stuff. He never related it to the performance of batsmen (or lack of it). Again, read before commenting, especially when you are talking about the great Viv....

  • on May 25, 2011, 1:44 GMT

    Whatever said and done, Johann Botha, Saeed Ajmal and Harbhajan Singh should not be allowed to bowl... Doosra or normal deliveries..

  • NAP73 on May 25, 2011, 1:40 GMT

    There may not haver been many pure quality bowlers, but it feels like there is a growing number of questionable bowler techniques these days... Like most things, if boundaries are extended then there will be some that will further test their extent. Either don't allow such a wide tolerance and have the guts to suitably enforce it, or just allow everyone to "chuck" and be done with it...

  • Randy_Wilson on May 25, 2011, 1:07 GMT

    @ mdaakash Sarwan is in the Team, he didnt do nothing at all.

  • bigrishi on May 25, 2011, 0:52 GMT

    the unfairness of it all !!! several years ago 2003 to be exact australia came to west indies and trashed the wi side in three test matches. in the fourth jermaine lawson who had played for the entire series took seven wickets and west indies chased down a record total to win the match. questions were then raised about the legality of his action, he underwent remediation, and when he played against india he looked totally ineffective

  • on May 25, 2011, 0:22 GMT

    I don't think bowlers' actions should be blamed for the demise of opposition batsmen these days. It takes batsmen of an extraordinary talent to play a good exponent of the doorsa; but many aren't playing the game now. Since its advent, I think everyone who bowls it has a so called suspect action when they do so; and I think it's here to stay. But while every other batsman in modern cricket has been blaming bowlers' flawed actions as their reason for not being able to play it, I have seen the Gt Brian Lara, arguably the best batsman the world has ever seen, destroy delivery after delivery tossed up by the best ever exponent of the skill (Muri) with so much ease and 'arrogance' that I wonder, what the hell the rest are complaining about? I am a bit surprised that Viv of all persons is agreeing (implicitly) with batsmen that it's the flawed action of bowlers why they can't bat! Viv met all the different types during his time. At that time it was bowlers who complained. Ask Viv or Lara how

  • on May 25, 2011, 0:03 GMT

    The day when Windies will get of spinner who will be able to bowl doosra, Mike and viv will stop complaining

  • Dr_SC on May 24, 2011, 23:35 GMT

    Why didn't Michael Holding or Viv Richards speak up when Ajmal took 11 wickets in the first test match? Right - it's because WI won that test. Sour grapes anyone?

  • mdaakash on May 24, 2011, 23:25 GMT

    Bring gyle and sarwan back in the team.

  • on May 24, 2011, 23:16 GMT

    @Zahidsaltin mike holding has been voicing his opinion of the doosra long before this series began so its not a case of finding reasons for the windies loss for him

  • ark40 on May 24, 2011, 22:07 GMT

    Sounds like sour grapes to me. The bottom line is Ajmal has been cleared by ICC, and like it or not the 15 degree bend is a done deal and here to stay, folks need to move on. Every off spinner is bowling a doosra these days. Interestingly when Murali triggered the "bent elbow" debate and ICC finally tested a whole slew of bowlers Glenn McGrath was one of the quicks who was found to be bowling with a bent elbow. The 15 degree number was cooked up to accommodate (legitimize) the likes of Murali and McGrath. I don't remember any Windies greats complaining about him. I think spinners get scrutinized more because their arms move slower through the delivery and any variations are more noticeable to the naked eye.

  • TeamSelector on May 24, 2011, 21:23 GMT

    The answer is simple, Viv should tell Sammy to start bowling the doosra too. Maybe then he (Sammy) will have a reason to justify his place in the team -:)

  • Zahidsaltin on May 24, 2011, 20:49 GMT

    Although it feels rather auckward to negate my own cricket hero, but I would like to respectfully say to Viv Richards; Even the greatest fast bowlers of your time were found to be bending their arms at more than 12 degrees, and that was used as a reason to come up with a 15 degree limit. Ajmal has been cleared by the ICC and blaming him for WI inability to bat is not a fair assesment. And secondly, why do you and Micheal find it now at the end of a test loss? why couldn't u spot it 1st test or in earlier matches. Doosra is a wonderfull cricket delivery which has added some weight to bowlers in a totally batting friendly cricket of today. My country has given cricket some extraordinary developements in bowlers arsenal in the shape of late swing and doosra and we are proud of it.

  • maddy7869 on May 24, 2011, 20:46 GMT

    Grapes are sour Viv and Holding so take a deep breath and swallow this defeat and take it on the Chin as gone are the days when WI were supreme now they have crap as cricketers lol ...... stop crying over the 15 degree rule as Ajmal has already been cleared, just because Ajmal is way too talented for WI cricketers to pick his delieveries ..... shame on both Viv and Holding ....

  • on May 24, 2011, 20:38 GMT

    Saeed Ajmal has played one 50 Over World Cup and two T20 Wc, "Sir" Viv Richard you are very late. If your batsmen cant pick doosra that dosent mean its illegal. Think before you speak

  • Mr.Marston on May 24, 2011, 20:37 GMT

    Viv Richards sir with all due respect, these statements only suit ever winging Aussies. You sir, were above all this or so I thought. And Mr Holding rather than questioning a talented spinner you much rather focus your thoughts on resolving on going issues with selection and selectors in WI. Thank you very much.

    @wiiCricket a very good and just comment mate/

  • mushira on May 24, 2011, 20:34 GMT

    Instead of pointing fingers, learn the art of doosra and get prepare to play them West Indies. WI batsmen technique needs to be corrected, please teach them Sir Richards.

  • on May 24, 2011, 20:25 GMT

    y is it so tht whenever pakistan winz a test match , our players are accused of some thing or the other? is our victory to hard to digest for the rest of the world?

  • InnocentGuy on May 24, 2011, 20:12 GMT

    Bah. The only time a bowler is questioned is after he takes a match/series winning haul of wickets. Until then no one even notices the bowler let alone his action. Ajmal gets 17 wickets and suddenly he is violating some random rule? Can't find the rule in the ICC book? No problem. Add a ridiculous rule now and ban Ajmal retrospectively! Idiots. Viv can't digest the fact that WI cricket has become worse than kindergarten cricket. That's just sad for a great player like him.

  • atharsherwani on May 24, 2011, 20:04 GMT

    Here we go again! This is typical response by a batsman, however great Viv Richard was, who thinks that all odds should be stacked in favour of batsman as the bowlers are there only to bowl so batsman can accumulate runs. All great batsmen were and are able to handle any sort of bowling, only average and mediocre ones struggle against good bowlers of any variety.

  • S.N.Singh on May 24, 2011, 20:03 GMT

    I HAVE SEEN AJMAL BOWLED IN A LOT OF MATCHES. I AM NOT TO RICHARDS I AM NOT IN RICHARDS CALIBER, BUT I AM CETAIN THAT AMJAL BOWLING ACTION IS GOOD. THIS IS A PROBLEM WE ARE GETTING WITH CRICKETERS. AMJAL BOWLING IS DECEIVING. THATS ALL. THE SAME YOU WILL WANT TO SAY ABOUT ASHWIN. THE SAME WAS SAID ABOUT HARBHAJAN. THE ONLY ONE WHO HAD SOME SUSPICTION WAS MURLI AND THIS WAS ANALYSED BY THE TECHNICAL BOWLING DEPARTMENT OF ICC IN AUSTRALIA. THE FACT IS MR. RICHARDS, IF AMJAL GET PEOPLE LIKE WHAT THE WEST INDIES HAVE HE WILL GET 700 WICKETS IN A SHORT WHILE. WHEN TONY LOCK WAS "PELTING" THE BALL, GARY SOBERS AND ROHAN KANHAI NEVER COMPLAINED, THEY GO OUT THERE AND SMASH THE BOWLING. THE TWO GREATEST OF ALL BATSMEN, SOBERS AND KANHAI I HAVE EVER SEEN. THEY HAD THE BEST OF BOWLERS TO FACE. THESE BOWLER THAT WE HAVE NOW COULD NOT BOWLED TO KANHAI AND KANHAI. THEY NEVER COMPLAINED ? S N SINGH FLORIDA.

  • likeintcricket on May 24, 2011, 20:02 GMT

    I think with Gayle and Simmons as openers and both bravos, Sarwan and Chanderpaul in the team the batting looks technically good.And with Rampaul, Roach, Sammy, Edwards, Taylor and off course Bishoo they have got enough fire power to challenge Indian team or any team on any wicket. But it is their attitude which is troublesome. Whenever they ( or the grand daddy England) lose against a sub continent side they find some excuse for that. Ajmal has played 11 Test matches and #s of one days but no one has said anything about it till now. Instead of applauding him for his wonderful effort they are just creating a fuss about it. In fact Pakistan lost the first Test because of sub standard wicket in the fourth inning where the bowl is keeping low on the third day and six LBWs were given because of that . WI should concentrate on playing against Indians now who have got better batsman very good quality spinners in their side. I think with a better mindset WI can still give a fight to Indians.

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:59 GMT

    has it ever occured to these former WI players that the current crop of players cant really play spin at alll, leave alone the doosra, they could barely read hafeez and ajmal is a bowler of great quality ecen Sachin struggle dto read him in the world cup semi. if his ddosra was unplayable and being bowled with an illegal action then , when ajaml was being hit a plenty by mike hussey and aus , then why didnt thjis come up . jus bcauz hes taking wickets and the windies dont have a clue how to play they make these excuses. sore losers i call em

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:44 GMT

    Suraj Ghosh are you serious WI revival in the next 2 years wit Sammy as captain oh please give me a break the guy does not have what it takes to whole down a place as a permanent captain period and if he continues we`ll surely be last in the cricket rankings

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:28 GMT

    I respectfully concur. This line in the article pretty much seals the deal, "Though West Indies may feel uneasy about Ajmal, they also batted woefully against Pakistan's other spinners."

  • ABRAR-JANJUA on May 24, 2011, 19:23 GMT

    With all due respect to Viv Richard where he was when W.I won the 1st test match and 2ODIs + Only T20?? Viv Richard and Michael holding are showing doubts about Ajmal's doosra when W.I lost badly and were totally helpless against him..???For their kind information that ICC already cleared him in this particular case…Thanks God that both M.Holding and Viv Richard did not show any concern about Abdul Rehman's bowling action...

  • G4rgoyle on May 24, 2011, 19:21 GMT

    Viv should file a petition to ICC in order to change the 15 degree rule, not undermine a talented bowler's performance by creating doubts about his action ...

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:20 GMT

    Just learn to play the dosra first and stop talking about the action...Ajmal u rock bro!! keep it up

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:18 GMT

    I tell all the foreigners ......U are scared of Pakistan's talent!! You all are.....we have the best bowlers in the world.....even tendulkar struggled against ajmal but unfortunately wasn't given out by the poor prediction of the hawk-eye.....Ajmal has class and the talent far better than any other off spinner going around....Vettori is the second one but he can't ball dosra so Ajmal in NO.1....just learn how to play him and u will get better...don't do this coward stuff

  • Rakim on May 24, 2011, 19:17 GMT

    All top-class spinners in the world has mastered doosra. So WI can't blame their loss to doosra. Cricket's evolved since Viv's ancient times. So let's all support it and IF Pakistan win a match, people just don't recognize Pak's players effort.

  • mohamedamin on May 24, 2011, 19:16 GMT

    12 runs 26 balls, 9 runs frm 18 balls, 16 runs frm 26 balls, 41 runs frm 56 balls. 2 for 16 frm 12 ovrs, 5 for 29 frm 17 overs, 2for 70 frm 28 ovrs, 1 for 64 frm 23 overs

    Viv: first of all - all the shots that sammy played rite thru the series hav been like batsmen who now learning to play cricket.....as for his bowling well the pitch was helpful for his bowling..both of them...if u realised only when the team came to guyana then he performed....come on viv ohh i forgot ure not a cricket analyst...sammy blocking space in that team...we all know that...how can u drop a player like Gayle an play sammy??????? see what Gayle doing in IPL????

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:12 GMT

    he has had his action cleared in the past and hes been playing all forms of crkt all over the world. now that hes taken a bunch oh wkts they've started questioning his doosra

  • wiiCricket on May 24, 2011, 19:10 GMT

    Dude! Can't batsman work with this 15 degree angle? In Cricket they (batsmen) get all the liberty to slaughter the bowler and when bowlers come up with innovations such as doosra and reverse swing all legality talks kick in. And nobody is bothered by free-hit, batsman-friendly pitches, small boundries, no-more-than-one-short ball an over, and many more comforts that batsmen now enjoys, which is just ridiculous and so obvious to favor batsman only. The bowlers in Cricket are like slave-child or a mere toy. Or to say it nicely, they are just a tool.

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:07 GMT

    i back this WI team as i want to see the past glory being brought back to WI, they are a great cricketing nation and my respect for Sammy and Co. for not losing spirit. Yes the the batsmen has got to do a lot of hardwork to achieve even a fraction of the success of its predecessors, but success and failure come in cycles, i look forward, optimistically, to a great revival in WI cricket in the next 2 years under Sammy. Cheers!

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  • on May 24, 2011, 19:07 GMT

    i back this WI team as i want to see the past glory being brought back to WI, they are a great cricketing nation and my respect for Sammy and Co. for not losing spirit. Yes the the batsmen has got to do a lot of hardwork to achieve even a fraction of the success of its predecessors, but success and failure come in cycles, i look forward, optimistically, to a great revival in WI cricket in the next 2 years under Sammy. Cheers!

  • wiiCricket on May 24, 2011, 19:10 GMT

    Dude! Can't batsman work with this 15 degree angle? In Cricket they (batsmen) get all the liberty to slaughter the bowler and when bowlers come up with innovations such as doosra and reverse swing all legality talks kick in. And nobody is bothered by free-hit, batsman-friendly pitches, small boundries, no-more-than-one-short ball an over, and many more comforts that batsmen now enjoys, which is just ridiculous and so obvious to favor batsman only. The bowlers in Cricket are like slave-child or a mere toy. Or to say it nicely, they are just a tool.

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:12 GMT

    he has had his action cleared in the past and hes been playing all forms of crkt all over the world. now that hes taken a bunch oh wkts they've started questioning his doosra

  • mohamedamin on May 24, 2011, 19:16 GMT

    12 runs 26 balls, 9 runs frm 18 balls, 16 runs frm 26 balls, 41 runs frm 56 balls. 2 for 16 frm 12 ovrs, 5 for 29 frm 17 overs, 2for 70 frm 28 ovrs, 1 for 64 frm 23 overs

    Viv: first of all - all the shots that sammy played rite thru the series hav been like batsmen who now learning to play cricket.....as for his bowling well the pitch was helpful for his bowling..both of them...if u realised only when the team came to guyana then he performed....come on viv ohh i forgot ure not a cricket analyst...sammy blocking space in that team...we all know that...how can u drop a player like Gayle an play sammy??????? see what Gayle doing in IPL????

  • Rakim on May 24, 2011, 19:17 GMT

    All top-class spinners in the world has mastered doosra. So WI can't blame their loss to doosra. Cricket's evolved since Viv's ancient times. So let's all support it and IF Pakistan win a match, people just don't recognize Pak's players effort.

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:18 GMT

    I tell all the foreigners ......U are scared of Pakistan's talent!! You all are.....we have the best bowlers in the world.....even tendulkar struggled against ajmal but unfortunately wasn't given out by the poor prediction of the hawk-eye.....Ajmal has class and the talent far better than any other off spinner going around....Vettori is the second one but he can't ball dosra so Ajmal in NO.1....just learn how to play him and u will get better...don't do this coward stuff

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:20 GMT

    Just learn to play the dosra first and stop talking about the action...Ajmal u rock bro!! keep it up

  • G4rgoyle on May 24, 2011, 19:21 GMT

    Viv should file a petition to ICC in order to change the 15 degree rule, not undermine a talented bowler's performance by creating doubts about his action ...

  • ABRAR-JANJUA on May 24, 2011, 19:23 GMT

    With all due respect to Viv Richard where he was when W.I won the 1st test match and 2ODIs + Only T20?? Viv Richard and Michael holding are showing doubts about Ajmal's doosra when W.I lost badly and were totally helpless against him..???For their kind information that ICC already cleared him in this particular case…Thanks God that both M.Holding and Viv Richard did not show any concern about Abdul Rehman's bowling action...

  • on May 24, 2011, 19:28 GMT

    I respectfully concur. This line in the article pretty much seals the deal, "Though West Indies may feel uneasy about Ajmal, they also batted woefully against Pakistan's other spinners."