Spinners November 10, 2006

Kaneria must fly

Once more, the build up has been impressive
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Once more, the build up has been impressive. You almost believe the hype--again. We have been here before: the promise of Danish, the creation of a spin bowler's paradise, and an opposition deemed unskilled at the art of reading legspin. Danish Kaneria is Pakistan's main strike bowler, says Inzamam, and I suppose in the prevailing circumstances he has a point. But this is a much weaker hand than it could be. By now, Danish should be a deadly weapon. The fact that he isn't is one of the more perplexing issues that engulfs the current team. On the face of it he has it all: legspin, googly, drift, and attitude. Then why has Kaneria failed to fly?

Danish's record looks impressive enough but as ever the statistics obscure the real story of his career. When he emerged Danish looked to be a natural successor to Abdul Qadir and Mushtaq Ahmed. Indeed, he displayed extraordinary maturity and control for a rookie. A great future was promised. But Danish's career has been one of toil rather than thunder.

The best legspinners are able to run through a batting line-up, they are, as Inzamam says, an attacking option. Danish, however, has never managed to match the threat of Qadir or even Mushtaq, and the question is why? He has become more of a stock bowler than a strike bowler, and that is the wrong mode.

The best reason I have heard is that Danish doesn't really possess a topspinner or a zooter. Shane Warne, who barely has a googly, has become the world's greatest bowler on the threat of his ball that goes straight on. It is a delivery that Qadir and Mushtaq both possessed but Danish hasn't really mastered it. If the batsman does not fear for his stumps then he will bat with little fear.

Whatever the reason, Danish must run through teams more often. Lahore, a ground with a history of great legspin performances, should be inspiration enough. A career that promised wonders has got stuck in third gear. His country's ravaged bowling attack needs him. The judgement on his career hangs in the balance. Kaneria must fly.

Kamran Abbasi is an editor, writer and broadcaster. He tweets here

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Jessica on September 8, 2012, 20:55 GMT

    , If you would get your mind out of the gutter, you would be a betetr bowler. Naturally at first I was puzzeled, but he told me to concentrate on the goal of the 10 pin and not the hazards around it. Much later I realized he was talking about positive over negative thoughts. A quick flash of thought like, I hope I don't miss it, is a little prophecy that has already programed what I would do. It has proven to me to be accurate in all sports and many other life situations. So as part of my, on approach pre-shot routine after positioning myself, I ask myself how I feel and tell myself what I am going to do, then focus on my target and go. I will back off the approach if I don't feel right or if I have and negative feelings or thoughts, then start over. Since those days, I have had to quit bowling a few times for several years, starting again in 2004. Age has made it more difficult to get back abilities I once had. Case in point, last Monday in league I started the second game with a strike then an open. My opponet started with the first 7 strikes, then spares in the 8th, 9th and 10th. I was able to stay close by adding my own 7 bagger, but needing 1 more strike to acutally take the lead in the 10th frame. Unfortunately, knowing I didn't feel completely right, I threw the shot anyway. I went wide and left the 2 pin, spare, then a perfect shot to lose by 7 pins. Your article reminded me of what I learned as a youth above. What you are saying works! Thanks for teaching and old dog an old trick.

  • Kashif on November 22, 2006, 9:53 GMT

    Hi guys, I think enough have already been said still I w'd like to add 2 points here. Saqlain invented doosra and for first 3 years, stormed the world, Only spin bowler who used to bowl in last 10 overs. Thanks to TV cameras every body found and started doing what he used to do. Secondly Danish is not a match winner (only hyped by Inzi for reasons he may know himself. His figures in the ongoing match tells his story ... 5 for 183 :(

  • samad parkar on November 21, 2006, 11:04 GMT

    danish kaneria,not good enough. simple.he will not get in any other test team.not even bangladesh or zimbabve,why,becuse he cant bowl,bat or field.simple.the 3 disciplines of playing cricket.pakistan has the best leggie in the world who can bat & bowl,yet they will not pick him.i just can not understand,yet we have to watch kaneria.now when he bowls,i go out,becuse i know that he cant take wickets or bowl maidens or trouble the batsman,so what is it that the selectors see in him for the last few years.i have not seen anything for him to be in the team.ahh sorry the bowler i am talking about is mushtaq ahmed. YES, THE GREAT mushie.WHY IS HE NOT IN THE TEAM.ANOTHER 100 WKTS HAULfor sussex helping them to win the title.a match winner.something kaneria will never be.

  • Azfar Alam on November 17, 2006, 11:04 GMT

    Kamran, it is wrong to conclude that kaneria is overrated.He is still young. He has 172 wickets in 41 tests which is very good though he has a 30+ average.He will get better with age.Remember leg-spin is the toughest craft to master in Cricket. Leg spinners need great support from the captain to succeed.Qadir became a great bowler only under Imran. Warne has had a succession of captains who had full faith in him. I won't talk about kumble here because he is not really a leg-spinner.He is more of a top-spinner.We have seen many leg-spinners who succeeded at a young age and then fizzled out Hirwani, Sivaramakrishna, even Mushtaq Ahmad didn't fulfill the promise. Kaneria has been there for 6 years now. If he is handled with care by the captains he will have a long & fruitful career. I have a hunch that once Younis Khan becomes the captain Kaneria will come in his own and will become a world class match winner.......let's see if I am correct.....

  • Raza on November 15, 2006, 13:23 GMT

    We should all accept the Kaneria was unlucky in the last test against West Indies. In that last test numerous cathches were dropped, and Kamran Akmal messed up Chanderpaul's stumping when Chanderpaul was out of his crease chasing a flighted ball. And also, don't forget the number of overs Kaneria is able to bowl, you can just hand the ball to him at the start of the day till the end and he doesn't get too tired. This is the only reason why he's the bowler who gets the most runs scored on. But, obviously, he's not perfect, he does seem pretty predicatable at times. However, once compared to all the other spinners in the domestic season and the squad, I beleive he would be the only one who would catch the selectors eyes.

  • Chaudry Hashim Chatta on November 15, 2006, 13:20 GMT

    Forget Kaneria blame Abbasi for taking so long to put up another blog. Comon man we need another blog after the 1st test results.

  • Vamsi Akella on November 15, 2006, 7:39 GMT

    Hi friends...first of all i have to admit that Kamran has a very good point when he says Danish has not lived upto the expectations. But i also have to agree wid most of the commnets over here that he is one of the finest prospects of the art in world and will mould into a match winner provided he is handled wid care. I also have a important question for you kamran. even though Harbhajan is considered a good off spinner, dont you think he took some time to blossom..and as far as Australia is concerned..its a very difficult place to bowl especially for a legspinner. Australians for all the noise made abt them are very good players of legspin but tend to suffer aginst off-spinners and left armers case in point being success of Muralitharan and Harbhajan.Even Kumble had to wiat till his last tur to do well in Australia. To end my post, Danish is one player i would love watching and iam sure as expected by everybody he will certainly run through sides..may he be treated wid care

  • Zuhair on November 15, 2006, 5:26 GMT

    Kaneria is indeed a touch ovverrated. He looks no where near to Abdul Qadir or even Mushtaq Ahmed. He has no comparison whatsoever with Saqlain,. Saqqi was just too great a bowler to be compared to kanria. i still prsonally feel that saqlain becvame the victim of pakistan cricket politics, otherwise he could have been the first bowler to break wasim's ODI record. Coming back to kaneria, he has a lot to prove in his career. Inzi thinks very high f him and he has hardly delivered ( exceptions are everywhere). If pakistan is reluctant to play mushtaq ahmed in thier squad for some strange reasons, we still have arshad khan as a better choice. Kaneria seems to lack control. he gives a bit to many runs for those wickets he take.

  • Omar Khan on November 15, 2006, 3:04 GMT

    HENCE he could not fly. The fact is he has ample support from the Captain and the Coach and they will try him again and again. The irony is Danish Kaneria's replacement, SHAHID AFRIDI is not even in the TEST SQUAD. The team has won the first test there will be no change in the second. The least they would do is replace IMRAN FARHAT with Faisal Iqbal? Who knows.

  • Jawad on November 14, 2006, 22:08 GMT

    Please stop blaming everybody. So you say Saqlain was over-hyped. Well then I say you haven’t watched him bowl. He was the match winner for PAK. The only spinner in PAK side to bowl alongside legendary Wasim Akram in the last overs of a one-day international. As far as Kaneria is concerned I would say he need to be innovative and a good observer of the game. Well let him play. I support him. If we need to criticize something it’s our infrastructure. No academy, no proper coaching, no proper selection criteria etc. We need to improve here if we want better results. Peace!!!

  • Jessica on September 8, 2012, 20:55 GMT

    , If you would get your mind out of the gutter, you would be a betetr bowler. Naturally at first I was puzzeled, but he told me to concentrate on the goal of the 10 pin and not the hazards around it. Much later I realized he was talking about positive over negative thoughts. A quick flash of thought like, I hope I don't miss it, is a little prophecy that has already programed what I would do. It has proven to me to be accurate in all sports and many other life situations. So as part of my, on approach pre-shot routine after positioning myself, I ask myself how I feel and tell myself what I am going to do, then focus on my target and go. I will back off the approach if I don't feel right or if I have and negative feelings or thoughts, then start over. Since those days, I have had to quit bowling a few times for several years, starting again in 2004. Age has made it more difficult to get back abilities I once had. Case in point, last Monday in league I started the second game with a strike then an open. My opponet started with the first 7 strikes, then spares in the 8th, 9th and 10th. I was able to stay close by adding my own 7 bagger, but needing 1 more strike to acutally take the lead in the 10th frame. Unfortunately, knowing I didn't feel completely right, I threw the shot anyway. I went wide and left the 2 pin, spare, then a perfect shot to lose by 7 pins. Your article reminded me of what I learned as a youth above. What you are saying works! Thanks for teaching and old dog an old trick.

  • Kashif on November 22, 2006, 9:53 GMT

    Hi guys, I think enough have already been said still I w'd like to add 2 points here. Saqlain invented doosra and for first 3 years, stormed the world, Only spin bowler who used to bowl in last 10 overs. Thanks to TV cameras every body found and started doing what he used to do. Secondly Danish is not a match winner (only hyped by Inzi for reasons he may know himself. His figures in the ongoing match tells his story ... 5 for 183 :(

  • samad parkar on November 21, 2006, 11:04 GMT

    danish kaneria,not good enough. simple.he will not get in any other test team.not even bangladesh or zimbabve,why,becuse he cant bowl,bat or field.simple.the 3 disciplines of playing cricket.pakistan has the best leggie in the world who can bat & bowl,yet they will not pick him.i just can not understand,yet we have to watch kaneria.now when he bowls,i go out,becuse i know that he cant take wickets or bowl maidens or trouble the batsman,so what is it that the selectors see in him for the last few years.i have not seen anything for him to be in the team.ahh sorry the bowler i am talking about is mushtaq ahmed. YES, THE GREAT mushie.WHY IS HE NOT IN THE TEAM.ANOTHER 100 WKTS HAULfor sussex helping them to win the title.a match winner.something kaneria will never be.

  • Azfar Alam on November 17, 2006, 11:04 GMT

    Kamran, it is wrong to conclude that kaneria is overrated.He is still young. He has 172 wickets in 41 tests which is very good though he has a 30+ average.He will get better with age.Remember leg-spin is the toughest craft to master in Cricket. Leg spinners need great support from the captain to succeed.Qadir became a great bowler only under Imran. Warne has had a succession of captains who had full faith in him. I won't talk about kumble here because he is not really a leg-spinner.He is more of a top-spinner.We have seen many leg-spinners who succeeded at a young age and then fizzled out Hirwani, Sivaramakrishna, even Mushtaq Ahmad didn't fulfill the promise. Kaneria has been there for 6 years now. If he is handled with care by the captains he will have a long & fruitful career. I have a hunch that once Younis Khan becomes the captain Kaneria will come in his own and will become a world class match winner.......let's see if I am correct.....

  • Raza on November 15, 2006, 13:23 GMT

    We should all accept the Kaneria was unlucky in the last test against West Indies. In that last test numerous cathches were dropped, and Kamran Akmal messed up Chanderpaul's stumping when Chanderpaul was out of his crease chasing a flighted ball. And also, don't forget the number of overs Kaneria is able to bowl, you can just hand the ball to him at the start of the day till the end and he doesn't get too tired. This is the only reason why he's the bowler who gets the most runs scored on. But, obviously, he's not perfect, he does seem pretty predicatable at times. However, once compared to all the other spinners in the domestic season and the squad, I beleive he would be the only one who would catch the selectors eyes.

  • Chaudry Hashim Chatta on November 15, 2006, 13:20 GMT

    Forget Kaneria blame Abbasi for taking so long to put up another blog. Comon man we need another blog after the 1st test results.

  • Vamsi Akella on November 15, 2006, 7:39 GMT

    Hi friends...first of all i have to admit that Kamran has a very good point when he says Danish has not lived upto the expectations. But i also have to agree wid most of the commnets over here that he is one of the finest prospects of the art in world and will mould into a match winner provided he is handled wid care. I also have a important question for you kamran. even though Harbhajan is considered a good off spinner, dont you think he took some time to blossom..and as far as Australia is concerned..its a very difficult place to bowl especially for a legspinner. Australians for all the noise made abt them are very good players of legspin but tend to suffer aginst off-spinners and left armers case in point being success of Muralitharan and Harbhajan.Even Kumble had to wiat till his last tur to do well in Australia. To end my post, Danish is one player i would love watching and iam sure as expected by everybody he will certainly run through sides..may he be treated wid care

  • Zuhair on November 15, 2006, 5:26 GMT

    Kaneria is indeed a touch ovverrated. He looks no where near to Abdul Qadir or even Mushtaq Ahmed. He has no comparison whatsoever with Saqlain,. Saqqi was just too great a bowler to be compared to kanria. i still prsonally feel that saqlain becvame the victim of pakistan cricket politics, otherwise he could have been the first bowler to break wasim's ODI record. Coming back to kaneria, he has a lot to prove in his career. Inzi thinks very high f him and he has hardly delivered ( exceptions are everywhere). If pakistan is reluctant to play mushtaq ahmed in thier squad for some strange reasons, we still have arshad khan as a better choice. Kaneria seems to lack control. he gives a bit to many runs for those wickets he take.

  • Omar Khan on November 15, 2006, 3:04 GMT

    HENCE he could not fly. The fact is he has ample support from the Captain and the Coach and they will try him again and again. The irony is Danish Kaneria's replacement, SHAHID AFRIDI is not even in the TEST SQUAD. The team has won the first test there will be no change in the second. The least they would do is replace IMRAN FARHAT with Faisal Iqbal? Who knows.

  • Jawad on November 14, 2006, 22:08 GMT

    Please stop blaming everybody. So you say Saqlain was over-hyped. Well then I say you haven’t watched him bowl. He was the match winner for PAK. The only spinner in PAK side to bowl alongside legendary Wasim Akram in the last overs of a one-day international. As far as Kaneria is concerned I would say he need to be innovative and a good observer of the game. Well let him play. I support him. If we need to criticize something it’s our infrastructure. No academy, no proper coaching, no proper selection criteria etc. We need to improve here if we want better results. Peace!!!

  • Seth Chaudhry Ghulam Baksh on November 14, 2006, 16:10 GMT

    Kaneria was apalling in the 1st test against the West Indies!

    He simply does not have the ability to succeed. He should be given the boot now rather than later. Lets search for a good spinner.

  • Derek on November 14, 2006, 14:52 GMT

    Essex certainly missed Danish last summer. With him in the team, they would almost certainly have gained promotion to Division one of the County Championship

  • S. GUL on November 14, 2006, 13:48 GMT

    He has two problems. I will tell the second problem to start with. This is that he is predictable and batters dont worry to read him of the hand or in the air. Everybody knows that he has a great googly, probably better than anyone else's in the world at the moment. He tries to get the legbreaks going either from outside of the legstump or from the legstump, similarly the googly from quite outside of the offstump. Easy predicting. Pitched outside or on the legstump, its a leggie and outside the offstump, its a googie. In other words he wants to get them bowled. This is overattacking and the reason of giving away too many runs for less wickets. He does not bowl too many deliveries on and around the offstump so that not only keeper, slip and the closing fielders become attacking but also the batters then would try to read him also. And that starts creating doubt. The first and the worst problem is that he tries too many varieties in a short span of time and in fact in a single over. That is a lack of consistency. He should learn from Warne who rarely bowls the googlie or the flipper which when bowled becomes a wicket tacking delivery. He should learn from good fast bowlers who bowl a barrage of short pitched deliveries to put the batsman on the backfoot and then fire in a quick full pitch delivery to get lbw or bowled. One must not forget the fact that Murali was not as good a bowler as he is now before mastering the Saqlain-Invented "Doosra". So if he learns the straighter-one, and rectify his problems, he would become a world class bowler. Good Luck ti him and to Pakistan

  • taz on November 14, 2006, 12:59 GMT

    Pakistan need to decide how they want to want to go about their campaign in the World Cup otherwise they'll find themselves part taking in the Super Eight's just to make up the numbers without seriously challenging for a Semi-Final Spot.

    Do they invest their faith in the new found Gul, Rana and Rao or drop one of these guys and use Danish as an attacking spinner ? problem is he isn't in the same bracket as Murali or Warne, where people would just rather play out their 10 overs and not worry about taking too many runs off them as long as they didn't give them a sniff of a wicket. If Asif's and Akhter's bans aren't overturned in time for the World Cup, then Danish could very well find himself as being the attacking 'strike' bowler that woolmer and inzi often refer to. Maybe it's what he needs.

  • ali on November 13, 2006, 22:58 GMT

    although danish has been mediocre it is for a reason. he cant lead the attack. obviously he is no murali or shane warne but all good bowlers need other bowlers for help. u cant expect danish to get the openers out and the middle order as well. the one draw back with him is that it takes him a long time to get the breakthrough. he is more anil kumble than shane warne. but for danish's sake i wud say he hasnt had much help.warne has lee, mcgrath and the third bowler. if shoaib and asif were in there along with danish he could attack more. also sometimes i think danish bowls to slow making him easy to play off the pitch. he doesnt think too much out there like other spinners like even panesar.

  • maajid on November 13, 2006, 15:23 GMT

    Danish is upncoming.. blame the selectors, blame the PCB.. dont blame the players.

    We need better training faicilities, better selection processes, better scouting for new players. PLAYERS complain about sooo much cricket, having a bigger squad with more quality players will resolve this problem.

    ps. How can ONE spinner be a STRIKE bowler? More important is a strike bowling TEAM! TEAM being the most important word here

  • Asad on November 13, 2006, 12:39 GMT

    The only comment I want to make is if people are comparing Danish Kaneria to Shane Warne, who is the "best bowler" ever in terms of figures, then there must be a hell of a lot of potential in him as he has still not peaked in terms of his ptential

  • Gul Hameed Bhatti on November 13, 2006, 9:45 GMT

    Reader Ali Raza has beaten me to it, but I must reconfirm that Kaneria's first name is pronounced as Daa-nish and not Dee-naysh. In an interview with one of my newspaper's reporters, of which I happen to be the editor, Kaneria had confirmed that his father named him Danish because a Parsee friend of his told him about the adjectives 'Danishmand' and 'Danishwar' which in the Urdu language mean 'one with great intellect'. So Kaneria is not Dinesh, just because he is a Hindu, but Danish. And, perhaps, people do ask you Mr Euceph Ahmed to spell your name as Yousuf Ahmed as most people would do. You see, it is all a matter of personal preference.

  • Haseeb Kuwait on November 13, 2006, 9:01 GMT

    Danish is still young and learning and at this age he had achieved a lot , he still got 10 years of cricket with him. With the pace he is picking up wickets now, who knows he might break Murli's or Warne's record of highest test wickets. But offcourse captain need to encourage him and there is still lot of room for improvement in his bowling as Mr. Kamran had mentioned.

  • Ayaz on November 13, 2006, 8:26 GMT

    I feel Danish is highly overated. He has never proved to be dangerous. I think the opposite teams who praise Danish, fears that he might be dropped and they could not get one flat bowler to play against. Ha ha ha

  • Nadeem Shahzad on November 13, 2006, 4:53 GMT

    The fact that Danish has been ignored as an option in the One Dayers has to do with his mentality as well, In a Test match you have 5 Days to Toil and Toy around with batsmen giving him ample amount of time and a mindset of a work horse rather than an attacking spinner, Selectors should look to play him in one dayers against Windies if he is ever to be part of their world cup bowling squad which after recent events looks depleted and spineless. Danish needs to play ODIs to know how to attack when the heat is on, he will attack when hess given 10 overs instead of 50.

  • Saudapop on November 13, 2006, 2:24 GMT

    Danish is a decent bowler but cant field or bat what so ever.

  • Ali Raza on November 12, 2006, 23:33 GMT

    to Euceph Ahmed.

    No you clown it is DANISH not DINESH or some other name

  • Sameer Manazir on November 12, 2006, 22:43 GMT

    Hy all,Even though its not the issue, but i strongly disagree with people who think Saqlain Mushtaq was over rated.208 wickets in 49 test matches is no fluke. He was a genunie spinner and the creator of Dosara. Going back to the current article i think Danish has all the potential to be a strike bowler. Alot would depend on how Inzimam uses him. The captain and the team need to back him up. if they use him as a strike bowler then they should be prepared that he would be hit around the ground. dansih still has to to get out of his shell even more now with no shoaib and asif to soften the batsman. If Inzaman uses him well, he deliver. Sameer

  • MUHAMMAD IMRAN BHATTI on November 12, 2006, 19:42 GMT

    Dear all. What I think sir, that may be you are right to say that this is the time for Danish Kaneria to prove his authority in Pakistan test squad . But I think that this ia the age of One day cricket.Nobody bother about your test performance. If we want to win the world cup then we should prepare a good off-spinner who can keep a good line and length with wicket taking ability.Our team management has few months before world cup and they should do it. A leg spinner is not a option for one dayers as we know even Shane warne who is the best leg spinner ever produced in the cricket history is not playing one day cricket for his side. Thanks and bye .

  • Shahid on November 12, 2006, 17:22 GMT

    Wasn't he the secret weapon Gen. Tauqir Zia introduced us to? Mushtaq Ahmed was the actual weapon that was wasted by foolish and ignorant selectors. Wasim Bari obviously has connections, based on performance he has single handedly set back Pakistan Cricket a few decades.

  • Hamid on November 12, 2006, 15:29 GMT

    I have no doubts on Danish's abilities. I think he hasn't been given the right role. At first, too much was expected too early. Then with Inzy's eternally defensive attitude, he was forced to bowl trying to save runs rather than enticing strokes. The result was he was giving too little air and bowling a defensive line. Leg spinners are never a defensive option. Moreover, we must keep in mind that most of the times spin plays only a back up role or that of a surprise. Fast bowlers put the pressure, spinners harvest the fruit, as is the case with Warne. If you look back to the days of great indian trio of Bedi,Chandra and Prasanna (or Venkat), you will see that they won very few games for India on wickets not "made to order" for them, just because they lacked the softening up effect of fast bowlers. For Danish to succeed we must give him plenty of runs to bowl at, accept that he can be an expensive wicket taker and have enough of fontline fast bowlers. Do we have all the ingredients to support a legspinner?

  • Ahsan Raza on November 12, 2006, 14:33 GMT

    It is indeed true that Kaneria has seemed off colour in the last few months.In England,for example,his best moment was Pietersen's wicket and that chicken-dance.The rest of the tour went dry.Danish was not very impressive against India either,failing to fox his Asian archrivals.He simply seems afraid to toss the ball,unlike the rookie,Dave Muhammed.This is precisely the reason for his continuous failure in ODIs.

  • Mark on November 12, 2006, 14:00 GMT

    your all very critical n your all chatting rubbish how old is kaneria?? 26 i beileve well hes still got another 10 yrs time so none of you lot can say what hes like shane warne who is 36 10 yrs bigger than kaneria when shane warne was 26 did anyone hear about his success?? i think you will find the answar is NOOO!!!!! soo i dont think anyone has the right to accuse anyone else we should all look at our selves first before jumping to conclusions!!

  • Usman Ahmed on November 12, 2006, 13:01 GMT

    Kaneria is reasonably accurate and is deadly when a batsman can't read him(eg flintoff at qadaffi stadium in winter 2005 2nd innings). But as soon as a batsman start picking him then poor danish has no where else to go. I haven't seen him getting a well settled batsman out(that obviously picks him) with his flight and gayle. He just labours and labours with his same line and length bowling at which the batsman is comfortable. Only variation he has got is to come around the wicket . Thuis is the reason why he hasn't taken enough 'quality' wickets agansit good oppositions. It was sad to see in the recently concluding tour of england that 2nd rate player like bell and collingwood were playing him with utmost of ease. If danish can't do well againsit these sorts of players then how can he get the dravids or pontings. He only gets big players out if they try to attack him and play loosely(eg LARA in 2005's westindies tour first test when he made a splendid hundered and then was bowled through the gate playing an expensive cover drive!)

  • adeel khan on November 12, 2006, 12:38 GMT

    Agreeing on Danish being over-rated bowler, the lack i c is pace or u can say spice in his bowling. too often he bowls lifeless deliveries. he cant lead pakistani attack and he will go in histories as a once upon a time bowler...

  • Owais2010 on November 12, 2006, 12:08 GMT

    I think Danish may not be world class as of now but he is a quality leg spinner. He might not be an out an out strike bowler, but he is sort of next best thing for line up beset by injuries, doping problems, bowling action related bans etc. He is the ONLY bowler in the current bowling line up who is guaranteed a place in the side. Umar Gul is just next to him (in terms of being an automatic choice in case all the fast bowlers are fit, able to play and in-form). The bad luck in his case has been lack of quality bowler at the other end. See his record when Shoaib has been firing at the other end ! Lets not also forget, lot of catches have been dropped on his bowling in last series, and lots of his good LBW appeals have been turned down by Hair & Co. (similar ones and arguably couple of weaker ones from Warne & Co. would have been granted by the likes of Asad Raoof, Aleem Daar, Billy Bowden).

  • MFK on November 12, 2006, 11:45 GMT

    Afridi is a better bowler than Kaneria. Saqlain would have been a legend had he been with Australia or Sri Lanka. Paki field placements are horrible. With proper field Afrid could pick up 5 times the wickets that Kaneria gets. Period.

  • Ranjil Basnet on November 12, 2006, 10:11 GMT

    Kaneria (di-nesh or danish) can be a great bowler only if he is keen to strengthen his repertoire. With the likes of Asif and Shoib out for a while, it seems that Pakistan will need him more than ever and also he will have to bowl bulk of the overs. If he then does not add variety to his attack, i think Lara, Gayle and Co. will have him for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.

  • Ali Majid on November 12, 2006, 3:52 GMT

    Kaneria had a poor series in England. Along the same lines he also turned in ordinary performances against India and Ari Lanka earlier this year. All the talk of him being the next Shane Warne was very premature (much like Irfan Pathan being tipped as the next Wasim Akram). For Pakistan to win this series Kaneria definitely has to perform. He somehow has to find the form that he was blessed with against Australia and India away from home almost two years ago. He is undoubtedly a very good bowler but consistency is one thing that this young prospect needs to work on. For Pakistan to do well in this series and the next in South Africa he obviously has to turn in big performances.

  • Shahid on November 12, 2006, 3:30 GMT

    Hey Kamran, have to agree. I agree that Danish is overrated but its disappointing to see people saying that Saqi was overrated bowler. But, as is the case in all spinners, you always need a shrewd captain who knows how and where to user them, just as in case of Saqi it was Wasim who used to use him to the best of his ability. In case of Shane Warne it was Taylor, and in case of Kumble it was Azharuddin, in case of Mushi it was Imran Khan. I hope we can find a complete leg spinner which Kaneria is definitely not.

  • Ahmed on November 12, 2006, 0:51 GMT

    Mushtaq Ahmed, in my opinion, was a world class bowler for most of his career, it was only when he tried too much that he slipped from that pedestal...as far as selection policy goes...hell, this is Pakistan we are talking about...the unpredictable is predicted. Danish Kaneria is probably the exception, due to the continuous changing of the guard ...the shunting of the quickies, he is the only one who has put up his hand, time and time again...sure he might not have the variety of an Abdul Qadir, or the flair of a Mushtaq Ahmed, but he has determination and guts...and thats something most cricketers get by on.example:Allan Border. But really, its great that Pakistan is preservering with him..and giving him plenty of exposure, it takes time for a spinner to build up his repoitire, I recently read in Richie Benaud's autobiography, that it took him a couple of years to develop a leg spinner with which he could keep a batsmen quiet and also get the out. But time and time again, Danish has delivered cruical blows for the fast bowlers to roll up the opposition, and when everyone has been unfit, he has toiled away.Running in with the same intensity and determination, every ball.

    And I agree, that Saqlain Mustaq should be in the side, most definitely, thats is just such a shameful waste of talent.The most talented off spinner in the world is left out for no reason whatsoever.but then, as I said, its Pakistan....

  • Awais Misri on November 12, 2006, 0:25 GMT

    The PCB is hell bent on ruining the Pakistan team; first they don't pick a decent team! What on earth is Shahid Nazir doing in the team; ok, he took 3 wickets, but the issue is grooming some one for the future; Shahid Nazir does not have the pace required. We need an under-19 rookie; Wasim and Waqar where brought in as rookies, so was Afridi, why don't the PCB bring in Anwar Ali or Samiullah Niazi, and what ever happened to Riaz Afridi?? Anyhows, i also think saqlain should be rbought back; his record speaks for itself, give him a few games and he will be back in rhythm. PCB loves wasting players; mayeb it gives them a sense of self importance to go on power trips, and not select good players, and ban other players, when it is not even required by the ICC to do so. Obviously other Boards will laud the PCBs decision to ban asif and shoaib; they don't have to deal with them at the world cup, and probably never again with shoaib.

    STUPID STUPID PCB--It is ruining pakistan cricket, make imran khan head of the pcb, or bring back an Air Marshall Nur Khan as head of the PCB!!!!

  • Ghalib Imtiyaz Ahmad on November 11, 2006, 22:49 GMT

    Despite some bizzare claims of Kaneria being overrated i think he is one of the best leg spinners of this era. Warne had many umpiring decisions and always an excellent set of fielders and the best slip fielders at his disposal to claim as many wicket as he did. Kaneria on the other hand is not so lucky and he turns the ball a bit too much sometimes to get an edge whereas Warne gets wickets of the straigt ball in most of the test matches i have seen.

    In Shoaib Malik and Afridi we have some part time bowlers though they may ball their quote of 10 overs in ODI matches, by Test standards they are mediocre. McGill does not have exposure to ODI matches and he seldom makes Test appearences but he has always taken wickets and he always outperforms Warne when they are both playing in the same team. So i think exposing Daneria to the ODI version where the batsmen are prone to taking few risks to score runs quickly can do Kaneria's confidence no good and its imperative that he be confined to Test match arena only as he does not offer the batting depth badly needed in modern ODI matches. One thing i can not comprehend is the inclusion of Imran Farhat despite brilliant knocks from Yasir Hameed and Salman Butt. Mohammed Hafeez has shown yesterday how to apply himself for the longer version of the game and he has a very good temperament to play at this level because yesterday what was required was not to give your wicket cheaply. So i think Imran Farhat will definitely make way for Yasir Hameed in 2nd test unless he gets to bat in the 2nd innings and make amends.

  • pucitian on November 11, 2006, 22:45 GMT

    Some where I read that Pakistanis have batrayed the most to their cricketers.We found lot of natural cricketers but never able to recognise their talent!!! If some one is saying that Saqlain and Danish are overrated and is baffled on the selection of Shahid Nazir, then that reflects the amount of selfishness that he is possessed of. Kaneria is a quality bowler but in a country where we cant prepare the pitches to the international standandards and our crutors prepare dead tracks,how can we expect from some one to take wickets ?????Indian pitches affer assistence to the spin bowlers and there He(Danish) bowled better than Indian bowlers ,besides he bowled out against the players who are the best players of spin bowling!!!!! So ,I think we should not whine and better if we concentrate eliminating the politics in our cricketing system !!!!!

  • Zarrar Khan Niazi on November 11, 2006, 22:35 GMT

    It seems Butt SahaB Jee has lost it. To call saqlain mushtaq overrated and defensive, containment bowler is by far the most bizzare cricketing comment iv ever heard. Sir, you need to set your cricketing knowledge straight, shane warne (the greatest spinner of all time) had him in his test and one-day X1's aghead of Murali. Saqi was one of the best off-spinners this game has ever seen, who has won Pakistan many matches through his ability to rubn throufg any batting line-up.

  • Hasan on November 11, 2006, 22:10 GMT

    I think that Danish Kaneria is one of the best leg spinners in modern day cricket. He is definetely Pakistan's strike bowler and should be backed by all of us. A few poor tours doesnt mean that he is a bad bowler, if it wasn't for him we would have lost against England at home and could have lost against India aswell. He should be used in the ODI line up aswell as tests to give him some more exposure to both types of the game. Now with Shoiab and Asif gone we nearly need a wicket taking bowler and if used in the right manner by the team, he could become one of the worlds most feared bowlers. I think that Danish is our best bowler and should be backed by all of us.

  • Omer Admani on November 11, 2006, 21:58 GMT

    What is hard for to understand is that why wasn't Shahid Nazir in the team before. Anybody who saw the tests against England should know that Shahid Nazir was the only positive for Pakistan. I always backed him. But the problem with PCB is that it is too prone to "young talent", the likes of Sami and Afridi, which have been the major hinderance of the Pakistan's progress. We groom them for 3,4 years to find that they are nothing performers. As any good team, Pakistan needs a blend of youth and maturity, and this overdependence on an inconcievable notion called talent has to be forgone.

  • Faraz on November 11, 2006, 21:49 GMT

    Here is the recipe: Pakistan: you need to play more test matches like the rest of the world high quality teams.

  • Moto on November 11, 2006, 21:04 GMT

    Guys get off Danish's back, he's only 25/26 yrs old and hasn't played many tests so give him time to learn and develop and support your countrymen rather than bad mouthing them. Also i am disappointed by the PCB sacking Mushtaq Ahmed as 1 of the many coaches we has, Afridi and Danish could have learned alot from him about bowling leg-spin and its variations. Also what puzzels me is the inclusion of Shahid Nazir, altho I have nothing against the guy and he isn't all that bad but there are better choices and I am surprised the Rana isn't included as he could do with practise before the world cup with Asif and Akhtar out. Also people get off Sami's aswell, he's a great bowler, but its the pressure that has destroyed him. If the pressure disappears he will return to his former self. So support your country and the players rather than bad mouthing them, every1 has bad days they are only human afterall.

  • Faisal Shahzad on November 11, 2006, 19:09 GMT

    Danish is no doubt a really good bowler and in the future will be heralded as one the best bolwers but rite now he still is lacking thst "spark" required but a great player. Although Inzi is a good captain, but his over reliance on Danish and touting him as Pakistan's main strike bowler is having a toll on "Dani". As a result his bowling just TOO many over in a given innings which makes him give away over 100 runs. Wat this means that "Dani" isnt evolving as fast as the team requires. With the "AsiKther" debacle, Danish will need to up the ante, but the other bolwers shud be also properly handled with likes of the new and upcoming Gul or the expricanced Rana and Nazir (domestic wise)

  • Ibrahim on November 11, 2006, 18:37 GMT

    I heard Michael Atherton make a point on Danish Kaneria and i would agree with HIM. He IS not a world class bowler but certainly has the sting and the passion to become One ... He bowls magnificently when he's in rhythm but sometimes get over agressive and loses it , he should act more like shane Warne(Ice in the Mind, Fire in the Belly), at least on the pitch :). Secondly, and apart from this michael atherton's comment which i totally agree with, he experiments quite a lot. He shoould keep a consistent line and length and set up the batsman for a google, flipper or the arm ball and try and bamboozle them with his "variety" and not throw the "variety" on them. Being a leg-spinner myself and being an effective one playing for my school,i know this trick works really well in the longer version of the game no matter who the batsman is!

  • Aftab Qureshi on November 11, 2006, 18:35 GMT

    That Kaneria must fly, as you say, is a must for him; otherwise, both he and the team will suffer. And I have a reasonale expectation that he will. Talking about his potential, I think he can certainly deliver on South Asian pitches. But it would be wrong to expect that he will run through good batting sides. Equally, I think it is unfair to say that he is overrated. He has actually performed against some good batting. So, to me, he is somewhere between a top class and a second class test match bowler, qualified enough to be a part of the team under suitable pitch conditions.

    Now a word about Saqlain. To suggest that he was overrated borders on being cruel....let's not forget that he is the inventor of the "doosera", and his figures speak for themselves.

  • Mohammed on November 11, 2006, 16:52 GMT

    Danish has been ineffective in Pakistan's last 2 test tours vs India and then England. He has been given ample chances in test cricket and has not been consistent enough to be the strike bowling spinner that Pakistan need. In addition to the absence of a good top spinner, I feel he lacks patience and consistency required for a good leg-spinner: he gives too many loose balls and tries to experiment too much. Mushtaq Ahmed is the best leg spinner in Pakistan currently, and is the strike bowler that Pakistan really need. Why have the Pakistan selectors not choosen him given his current performance in England coupled with Danish's lack of success?

  • dr.syed nasim hyder on November 11, 2006, 15:44 GMT

    Success of a spinner needs a superb support from close in fielders specially.On first day of this ongoing test two definite chances were spilled by close in fielders off his bowling.As Intikhab mentioned today that right arm wrist spinners are always little expensive.He needs healthy support which Inzi is no doubt giving.

  • Zed Fazel on November 11, 2006, 15:00 GMT

    I beg to differ. When you mention Shane Warne, you have to take into consideration the support he receives from the wicket-keeper and fielders. A spiiner comes into his own once he gets the 1st wicket. How many times catches have gone a begging when Kaneria is bowling. Just take the recent test series between England v Pakistan. How many catches/stumping chances were missed. Abdul Qadir was backed by an excellent wicket keeper; Salim Yousuf. Mushtaq Ahmed & Saqlain Mushtaq had also very good keepers; Moin Khan & Rashid Latif. Also if the ground fielding is upto standard, Kaneria would have better figures for his efforts. In my opinion is rating is high as a spinner after Warne,Murlidharan,Kumble and Harbajan Singh. Let Pakistan improve their fielding and then a correct assessment can be made on Kaneria's capabilities.

    Kind regards,

  • Gohar Ayub on November 11, 2006, 13:55 GMT

    There is no doubt that Danish possesses the best googly as compared to Warne and other leg spinners. But in order to be successful he must learn the floater (a delivery which goes streight on) as without this kinda delivery we can't deceive world class batsmen on regular bases. I guess Danish is not a quick observer as by now he should learned floater by seeing Warne.

    Secondly, he should learn to bowl from side ways like Qadir and Warne. He got a front-arm action which of course is good for pace bowling but not for leg spin.

  • inqlabi on November 11, 2006, 13:49 GMT

    Well Danish is best. Even warne was not able to stop England from winning Ashes. Try to understand todays batsmen especially english and aussie are more skilled in playing legspin then ever. Forget the days of Qadir.

  • mawali on November 11, 2006, 13:40 GMT

    I beleive his problems lie more with the level of confidence and support then technique. Danish, needs an all out help and support from the Coach, capitaan and the team to get the proverbial monkey off his back. Peace!

  • saleem on November 11, 2006, 12:20 GMT

    I agree with Kamran, danish needs to deliver now. It seems that he has become more like Ashley Giles of pakistan. He can not get into pakistan one day side becuase he can not take wickets like Shane warne, murali, mushtaq or saqlain. these players use to take wickets and control the flow of runs aswell. Kaneria can not do any of these things. on top of that he is a complete liability in the field and batting. to out weigh these deficiancies he needs to win matches for pakistan. I think pakistan should look for a spinner who could become part of our one day side by taking wickets like mushy(1992 w/cup)warne(2 w/cups), murali.

  • Rizwan on November 11, 2006, 11:42 GMT

    I think Danish has been given enough opportunity to prove his mettle, he is a great let down. He is highly overrated. Even Afridi can pick 3-5 wickets if he gets to bowl 30 odd overs on the trot, which is exactly what Danish does, his strike rate is poor and his avgs seems ok thanks to Bangladesh.

  • shah on November 11, 2006, 11:20 GMT

    The problem with Kaneria is that he is not good enough a bowler to run through a side.He has only once run through westindies that was in 2005 when he took 5 for 45 in 2nd test match. other thanthat he has taken a lot of wickets against minnows.Perhaps time has come for pakistan to try another spinner from outside.

  • sarmad on November 11, 2006, 9:56 GMT

    I think we are being a unfair with Danish. We must remember that he bowled decent spells in India (where even Shane Warne has struggled). Yes, he doesnot always live upto his expectations, he surely has a long way to go but this lad has not disappointed either. Also, can someone justify his exclusion in the One dayers?

  • Inam ul Haque on November 11, 2006, 9:55 GMT

    Kamran

    I think you need to take a cold shower. There is no need to bang on about the negatives in the team and in selectors. Wasim Bari has also been at helm when we won the series against England, India and Sri Lanka. This is a common theme in Sports and cricket analysis - kick a man when he is on the ground.

    I think we need genuine debate on the Pak spin, not just whingeing and player bashing. Lets be positive and support the team we have. We banged on about how useless Inzi was and that we need Younis as the captain. Once he was gone, we all saw that we desperately need Inzi.

    Lets show respect to our players. They represent our country and deserve our support + criticism as warranted - not more pressure.

    Inam

  • Talha Ahmed on November 11, 2006, 8:42 GMT

    AFAIK Danish is the correct name although he is a Hindu by religion. Living in a Muslim majority area, it is not uncommon for non-muslims to keep similar names as any of their friends. Besides, Danish only means "Brains", which Danish needs to put more of into his bowling. He can be pacier in the air than Mushtaq ever was, so there is his clear advantage. And although he doesnt get the amount of turn McGill and Shane Warne does, he fundamentally seems to have most the toys that Abdul Qadir had. He just needs to develop the Anil-Kumble-like patience and intensity to ensure that he ends up with decent figures more often than not. We must allow him to go on and keep up the hype around him.

    Part of the problem with Danish has been that Inzamam is too defensive a captain. A condition that goes against a leg-spinner and effectively eliminates his advantage in the one-days. With Inzamam most-probably retiring after the world cup, and the kinds of captains we have waiting in the wings, we will need to have already been invested in attacking spinners like Kaneria and Saqlain to lead our attacks.

    Saqlain, in my opinion, has been another "almighty waste". Many people whose minds are etched with his last one day performance would disagree. But who so ever remembers his performances in India against India, would say why not!

  • Riaz Husain on November 11, 2006, 8:19 GMT

    The leg spinners art, as I suppose any bowling art is intimately connected with reading the batsman's mind and outfoxing him. It is here more than anywhere else that Dinesh is deficient. I remember Shane Warne advising him to slow down between deliveries to gather himself as much as sow doubt in the batsman's mind and gnaw away at his mental reserves.

    He may as someone has said earlier lack a top spinner, I haven't watched enough of him to confirm, but supposing he does he has the great Qadir running the Qadir Academy right next to Gaddafi Stadium in Lahore to advise him. I think it is appaling that Qadir is not the bowling consultant or mentor to Dinesh. I saw an interview of Qadir's last summer where the old fox was explaining how he grew a mesitophelian beard introduced a back step at the start of his run up and various other ruses to appear a mysterious magician as part of his weaponery against the batsmen he bowled to. I am sure Dinesh needs to learn lots from him. The sooner the better.

  • usman tahir on November 11, 2006, 6:46 GMT

    I reckon, exposure is one problem the Danish is facing, playing test matches is one thing, but they are few and far in between. He needs to play one dayers, one day game can help him by forcing him to steady & restrain his reportoire of delivery, u cant expirement much in one dayers and need to stop runs forces one to bowl a steady line. Maybe that would help danish, i do agree with a point mentioned above that wickets have hardly suited him in pakistan. if i am not mistaken, he did well in India.

  • niaz ahmed on November 11, 2006, 6:32 GMT

    Any spinner who has done well against india in india, a feat even the great shane warne cannot be proud of, cannot be ordinary. Danish, according to his own standards might have not had a good tour of england, but every cricketer goed thru ups and downs. He should be handled properly and should not be wasted like Saqlain and Mushtaq.Pakistan cricket seems to have a knack of losing good players. imran nazir,saqlain and mushtaq are examples.

  • Yasir on November 11, 2006, 5:55 GMT

    I think, the real problem with many Pakistani players at this time including Danish is that they are not improving. I have seen Danish taking 5 wickets in an innings but at the expense of bowling 30-40 overs and giving away 150 or more runs. So if Danish is bowling 30-40 overs means that the batting team played around 120 overs which are fair number of overs to get a decent score.

  • Faesal on November 11, 2006, 5:39 GMT

    I would like to clear something first that Kaneria's first name is not Dinesh, one may be inclined to think that because he is a hindu. But it is mentioned as Danish on his cricinfo profile too.

    Secondly, some people called Saqlain or Kaneria over-hyped, they would do well to look at their records. Saqlain is the quickest to reach 150, 200 and 250 wicket mark in ODI history (pace or spin), has 10 wicket hauls against the likes of Australia and India in tests. I would say he is the most underrated bowler ever. PCB, true to its tradition, has already wasted him. Let's not do the same with Kaneria. As Kamran said, he has it all! Talent as well as attitude. What he needs from PCB is to place confidence in him and let it be known. It works wonders for the performance of the player. He should also be a part of our ODI squad as an attacking option.

    Having said that, for the life of me I can't understand the inclusion of Shahid Nazir in the team. He never was an extraordinary talent, he is not now nor will he be in the future. It is in plain sight, how come Mr Bari is not able to see it, unless his job depends on it (which doesn't pay him anything anyway). The brightest prospect on the horizon seems to be Yasir Arafat. He took 7 wickest in the first class match against England and has been doing very well in county cricket with the ball and bat. Talent he has, no doubt about that. Why not groom him? He wasn't able to perform very well with the ball against South Africa but was easily the best performer with the bat. You can't expect wonders from anybody from the very first day. One shouldn't be condemned to obscurity on the basis of a single performance, which I suspect will be the case with Arafat. Asif is a case in point.

  • aboysa on November 11, 2006, 4:08 GMT

    Kamran, I agree with you that Danish lacks the straigher, but despite that he has done well in the past with his variety balls. There are players who may not have all the skills in the players, but they are still able to achieve success by playing within their limitations. Just look at Kumble. I think the problem with Danish is overconfidence. With some fine performances in Australia, in India and against England in Pakistan, I feel the success got to his head. I was not really impressed with some of his pre-series claims. I hope he gets some humility and does not fizzle like Rana.

  • Xijian on November 11, 2006, 4:04 GMT

    Here's a quote from Richie Benaud the last time Pakistan toured down under on Kaneria: He has too much variation in his bowling overs. That could be it really, since he interjects around 2 googlies an over along with his stock leg-break. If you compare the three leading leg spinners currently: Warne, MacGill and Kumble, you would see that they use googlies or other variations sparcely.

    Warne hardly bowled a googly or a flipper during the 2005 ashes and he took nearly 20 wickets at an average of 18

    MacGill mainly relies on huge turns in his stock leag break, and his career average and strike rate is lower than Warne's (who has two more variations than MacGill: the flipper and slider).

    Kumble relies on subtlety of spin and dead on accuracy to achieve his 500+ test wickets at a reasonable average of around 30. If you care to look at his pitch deviations, you would see that his leg break and slider that vivid in difference.

    Kaneria needs to work on the basics, and stop his run up with all these weird hand flaps that resemble a peacock performing a mating dance.

  • AYAZ KHAN on November 11, 2006, 3:39 GMT

    The statistical record of Dinesh is nothing to be sneezed at. 169 wickets at almost 4 wickets per test is good. When India had the spin quartet they prepared wickets to suit them and they ran through opposition. In Comparison poor Dinesh hardly had any supporting act from the wicket. He is the best that we have and we have to develop and support him. I also hink Dinesh needs another strike spinner from the other end to give his best. England can just be an abberration and I am sure he is going to perform against Wesy Indies.

  • Arslan Shaukat on November 10, 2006, 19:25 GMT

    I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion about Danish's dip in form being due to not possessing a straighter delivery. Warne has only developed his straighter delivery/slider in the last five years. Initially in his career, he possessed a nasty flipper, but due to shoulder injuries was forced to abandon it. Between the Flipper and the slider, in the late 90s, he was still as successful as ever in taking wickets through variations in flight.

    First and foremost, a wicket taking legspinner needs to out think his opponent. Even though Danish possesses great control plus a wide variety of deliveries in his arsenal, he is impatient and tries to bowl all his varieties in one over. I have rarely seen him planning a dismissal and enticing a batsman in playing a false stroke; something that Warne is a master at.

    Danish also bowls a defensive line (offstump). Whereas Warne’s line (middle-leg) not only makes slider more effective, but forces batsmen to play at every delivery.

  • JAVED A. KHAN MONTREAL, CANADA on November 10, 2006, 17:39 GMT

    We always say that so and so is over-rated after Qadir and Saqlain its now Danish's turn. As the English expression goes, "If pigs could fly... OR If wishes were horses.........

    The point is Danish is a very good bowler, still young and inexperienced and it is also true that he tries too many variations in one over, that makes him predictable.

    Good teams like Australia and England have studied his action, his variety by using technology and watched him bowling on video and now they are well prepared.

    I still believe that Inzamam should use an attacking field when Danish is bowling. He is at his best when there is an attacking field with a slip, two close in fielders to make the batsman think twice before sweeing his googlies or doosras.

    Another important thing is to see how good Kamran Akmal would be behind the stumps. Lately he has shown poor display of form in both aspects of his game i.e., as a wicket keeper and as a batsman. If he doesn't let off any chances then not only Danish, even the fast bowlers would be bowling with their tail up !!!!!!

  • Malik Delawar Khan Cheema on November 10, 2006, 16:55 GMT

    I'm not sure if I agree Euceph. Dinesh (as he's now called) does not have the skill to be a world class bowler. It may be the fact that he's being compared to Shane Warne. Warne does not have the traits that you describe @ Euceph, neither does Murli. These guys are serious cricketers unlike Qadir, who was a bit of a clown anyway!

    Muchtaq Ahmed has been the most talented spinner Pakistan has produced for a while since Iqbal Qasim.

  • Hussain on November 10, 2006, 16:40 GMT

    Beggars are not choosers. Whether kaneria performs or not, at this stage, we only have him to salvage some pride in our bowling attack. One thing I never understood was recalling Shahid Nazir everytime one of our strike bowlers are not available. Even if he does perform (which has never been the case), what future does he have? He is way past a fast bowler's prime age. Why not experiment with a young fast bowler (since we are in a deep mess anyways) Anwar Ali who played for the Pakistan under 19 seems like a good prospect. Give him a chance. Umar gul on the end is an excellent support bowler. Afridi's exclusion from test squad is baffling too

  • Euceph Ahmed on November 10, 2006, 16:10 GMT

    Well, first things first. HIS NAME IS "DINESH" (DEE-NAYSH) not "Danish" (DAA-NISH) Kaneria.

    I think that legspinners, like poets, are creatures who are just born with the gift. It's the attitude of a legspinner that dictates his art. They're wily craftsmen for whom no high is bigger than outwitting their opponents. They drool when they see nervous batsmen. Javed Miandad was a batsmen with a legspinners nature (if I remember correctly he bowled legspin too). Dinesh has the craft but he lacks the attitude, and attitude is not a learned trait. As a legspinner you have to be able to laugh at the batsmen. You have to ridicule them, challenge them, poke fun at their moves along with your close-in fielders. Poor Dinesh keeps learning and learning because he's in the company of so many experts and so-called "seniors." He needs to be given a free hand to enjoy the funny side of things legspinners tend to bring into the game. I can vividly remember the smiles Abdul Qadir's antics brought. Wicket or no wicket, how he always broke the monotony. All of a sudden cricket would become memorable... fun to watch.

    I think that Dinesh, in addition to being a strike bowler, could also be a support bowler in the sense that, as all great legspinners, he could nag the batsmen enough to be picked up at the other end. He needs the exclusive guidance of Abdul Qadir, and he needs to be given a total free hand to bring some fun to the game without worrying about winning or losing.

  • Syed Waqqas Iftikhar on November 10, 2006, 12:48 GMT

    We are being a little premature in passing a judgement on Kaneria's effectiveness. The guy is still young and as we all know, spinners achieve maturity at a much older age. He has done quite decently in tests and his record, though not stunning is still very very good. As for the fact that Shane Warne has been more successful without having a googly etc, you also need to take into account the often inept standards of fielding in the Pakistan team. Whereas Shane Warne had people like Mark Taylor and Mark Waugh in his slip cordon (who could basically snatch a fly out of thin air), Kaneria has Imran Farhat (who it seems has come to the conclusion that he can only take one out of every five chances that come his way or all hell will break loose)

  • Qasim on November 10, 2006, 12:10 GMT

    Hi all,

    It's sad to hear this from you all that Danish Kaneria and even Saqlain Mushtaq were over hyped. Pakistani players are the most under rated players compared to other nations.

    Danish kaneria is a very good bowler with a potential to be one of the best of this era. Saqlain Mushtaq was perhaps the creator of Doosra and is considered among the finest of Off spiners in history not because he was hyped but because he could run down any side on his day.

    Sadly, Saqlain Mushtaq was wasted by Pakistan, i still think he should be Pakistan's premier spiner along with Danish Kaneria. India have two spiners aswell and they do well. Although unfortunately and because of Sami droping that catch against India, we will never see this great player again in a Pakistani shirt.

    Kaneria however has a chance to write his name among the best, lets hope he takes it. He has decent enough spin support from Hafees and Malik (if they play). Hafees has a great line and length while Malik has experience and can bowl the Doosra.

    I still wouldn't write Pakistan off... they can still produce a win but if only they stick to their strengths.

    They would need to use Umar Gul with care and make sure he isn't over used and given appropiate breaks during the day.

  • partha on November 10, 2006, 11:39 GMT

    Dear Kamran, dont you think that Pakistan needs to induct some new talent in pace department. You know very well that leg spinners however talented they might be dont have good strike rates. They need atleast 65 balls to strike. Even great bowlers like kumble need 80 balls to strike if i am not wrong. SO expecting Danish to run through can backfire, because he needs support at other end also. Pakistan should go for broke. Prepare green tops, Umar gul and abdul razzaq can get wickets. That is a better option than going for placid wickets which will help west indians. Remember, it was very recently that India beat West Indians with some good swing bowling.

  • Butt Sahib Jee on November 10, 2006, 10:04 GMT

    Danish Kaneria is the most over rated cricketer since Saqlain Mushtaq. We were promised wonderful things from Kaneria during Pakistan's last trip to Australia. Kaneria's statistics look reasonable due to him bamboozling the Bangladeshis. His major success's have come against the weaker opposition. The only exception being his last tour to India.

    The problem for Kaneria is that like Saqlain before him, he is unable to lead a bowling attack. He is a containing option. He needs someone like Shoaib at the other end to soften the bastman up. With Shoaib and Asif out, Kaneria should lead the attack, as he is Pakistan's best hope. He may well do but West Indian batting is not the best in playing leg spin.

    Pakistan desparately need to find a winning spin bowler of a world class nature.

  • §unny on November 10, 2006, 9:33 GMT

    I personaly feel Danish is overated. He though take wickets but more then often he gives more then 100 runs per inning which is not a sign of world class bowler. The second problem which I feel is lack of control over spin, he most of the times dont have a slightest of idea when to bowl which kind of delivery or how much to spin on certain ocassions. His drawback is that when he joined the team there wasnt any geniun spinner playing for Pakistan who could guide him

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  • §unny on November 10, 2006, 9:33 GMT

    I personaly feel Danish is overated. He though take wickets but more then often he gives more then 100 runs per inning which is not a sign of world class bowler. The second problem which I feel is lack of control over spin, he most of the times dont have a slightest of idea when to bowl which kind of delivery or how much to spin on certain ocassions. His drawback is that when he joined the team there wasnt any geniun spinner playing for Pakistan who could guide him

  • Butt Sahib Jee on November 10, 2006, 10:04 GMT

    Danish Kaneria is the most over rated cricketer since Saqlain Mushtaq. We were promised wonderful things from Kaneria during Pakistan's last trip to Australia. Kaneria's statistics look reasonable due to him bamboozling the Bangladeshis. His major success's have come against the weaker opposition. The only exception being his last tour to India.

    The problem for Kaneria is that like Saqlain before him, he is unable to lead a bowling attack. He is a containing option. He needs someone like Shoaib at the other end to soften the bastman up. With Shoaib and Asif out, Kaneria should lead the attack, as he is Pakistan's best hope. He may well do but West Indian batting is not the best in playing leg spin.

    Pakistan desparately need to find a winning spin bowler of a world class nature.

  • partha on November 10, 2006, 11:39 GMT

    Dear Kamran, dont you think that Pakistan needs to induct some new talent in pace department. You know very well that leg spinners however talented they might be dont have good strike rates. They need atleast 65 balls to strike. Even great bowlers like kumble need 80 balls to strike if i am not wrong. SO expecting Danish to run through can backfire, because he needs support at other end also. Pakistan should go for broke. Prepare green tops, Umar gul and abdul razzaq can get wickets. That is a better option than going for placid wickets which will help west indians. Remember, it was very recently that India beat West Indians with some good swing bowling.

  • Qasim on November 10, 2006, 12:10 GMT

    Hi all,

    It's sad to hear this from you all that Danish Kaneria and even Saqlain Mushtaq were over hyped. Pakistani players are the most under rated players compared to other nations.

    Danish kaneria is a very good bowler with a potential to be one of the best of this era. Saqlain Mushtaq was perhaps the creator of Doosra and is considered among the finest of Off spiners in history not because he was hyped but because he could run down any side on his day.

    Sadly, Saqlain Mushtaq was wasted by Pakistan, i still think he should be Pakistan's premier spiner along with Danish Kaneria. India have two spiners aswell and they do well. Although unfortunately and because of Sami droping that catch against India, we will never see this great player again in a Pakistani shirt.

    Kaneria however has a chance to write his name among the best, lets hope he takes it. He has decent enough spin support from Hafees and Malik (if they play). Hafees has a great line and length while Malik has experience and can bowl the Doosra.

    I still wouldn't write Pakistan off... they can still produce a win but if only they stick to their strengths.

    They would need to use Umar Gul with care and make sure he isn't over used and given appropiate breaks during the day.

  • Syed Waqqas Iftikhar on November 10, 2006, 12:48 GMT

    We are being a little premature in passing a judgement on Kaneria's effectiveness. The guy is still young and as we all know, spinners achieve maturity at a much older age. He has done quite decently in tests and his record, though not stunning is still very very good. As for the fact that Shane Warne has been more successful without having a googly etc, you also need to take into account the often inept standards of fielding in the Pakistan team. Whereas Shane Warne had people like Mark Taylor and Mark Waugh in his slip cordon (who could basically snatch a fly out of thin air), Kaneria has Imran Farhat (who it seems has come to the conclusion that he can only take one out of every five chances that come his way or all hell will break loose)

  • Euceph Ahmed on November 10, 2006, 16:10 GMT

    Well, first things first. HIS NAME IS "DINESH" (DEE-NAYSH) not "Danish" (DAA-NISH) Kaneria.

    I think that legspinners, like poets, are creatures who are just born with the gift. It's the attitude of a legspinner that dictates his art. They're wily craftsmen for whom no high is bigger than outwitting their opponents. They drool when they see nervous batsmen. Javed Miandad was a batsmen with a legspinners nature (if I remember correctly he bowled legspin too). Dinesh has the craft but he lacks the attitude, and attitude is not a learned trait. As a legspinner you have to be able to laugh at the batsmen. You have to ridicule them, challenge them, poke fun at their moves along with your close-in fielders. Poor Dinesh keeps learning and learning because he's in the company of so many experts and so-called "seniors." He needs to be given a free hand to enjoy the funny side of things legspinners tend to bring into the game. I can vividly remember the smiles Abdul Qadir's antics brought. Wicket or no wicket, how he always broke the monotony. All of a sudden cricket would become memorable... fun to watch.

    I think that Dinesh, in addition to being a strike bowler, could also be a support bowler in the sense that, as all great legspinners, he could nag the batsmen enough to be picked up at the other end. He needs the exclusive guidance of Abdul Qadir, and he needs to be given a total free hand to bring some fun to the game without worrying about winning or losing.

  • Hussain on November 10, 2006, 16:40 GMT

    Beggars are not choosers. Whether kaneria performs or not, at this stage, we only have him to salvage some pride in our bowling attack. One thing I never understood was recalling Shahid Nazir everytime one of our strike bowlers are not available. Even if he does perform (which has never been the case), what future does he have? He is way past a fast bowler's prime age. Why not experiment with a young fast bowler (since we are in a deep mess anyways) Anwar Ali who played for the Pakistan under 19 seems like a good prospect. Give him a chance. Umar gul on the end is an excellent support bowler. Afridi's exclusion from test squad is baffling too

  • Malik Delawar Khan Cheema on November 10, 2006, 16:55 GMT

    I'm not sure if I agree Euceph. Dinesh (as he's now called) does not have the skill to be a world class bowler. It may be the fact that he's being compared to Shane Warne. Warne does not have the traits that you describe @ Euceph, neither does Murli. These guys are serious cricketers unlike Qadir, who was a bit of a clown anyway!

    Muchtaq Ahmed has been the most talented spinner Pakistan has produced for a while since Iqbal Qasim.

  • JAVED A. KHAN MONTREAL, CANADA on November 10, 2006, 17:39 GMT

    We always say that so and so is over-rated after Qadir and Saqlain its now Danish's turn. As the English expression goes, "If pigs could fly... OR If wishes were horses.........

    The point is Danish is a very good bowler, still young and inexperienced and it is also true that he tries too many variations in one over, that makes him predictable.

    Good teams like Australia and England have studied his action, his variety by using technology and watched him bowling on video and now they are well prepared.

    I still believe that Inzamam should use an attacking field when Danish is bowling. He is at his best when there is an attacking field with a slip, two close in fielders to make the batsman think twice before sweeing his googlies or doosras.

    Another important thing is to see how good Kamran Akmal would be behind the stumps. Lately he has shown poor display of form in both aspects of his game i.e., as a wicket keeper and as a batsman. If he doesn't let off any chances then not only Danish, even the fast bowlers would be bowling with their tail up !!!!!!

  • Arslan Shaukat on November 10, 2006, 19:25 GMT

    I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion about Danish's dip in form being due to not possessing a straighter delivery. Warne has only developed his straighter delivery/slider in the last five years. Initially in his career, he possessed a nasty flipper, but due to shoulder injuries was forced to abandon it. Between the Flipper and the slider, in the late 90s, he was still as successful as ever in taking wickets through variations in flight.

    First and foremost, a wicket taking legspinner needs to out think his opponent. Even though Danish possesses great control plus a wide variety of deliveries in his arsenal, he is impatient and tries to bowl all his varieties in one over. I have rarely seen him planning a dismissal and enticing a batsman in playing a false stroke; something that Warne is a master at.

    Danish also bowls a defensive line (offstump). Whereas Warne’s line (middle-leg) not only makes slider more effective, but forces batsmen to play at every delivery.