August 23, 2012

LV= County Championship, Thursday August 23

5.30pm: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex
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5.30pm: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

Warwickshire have made some inroads after breaking a fine partnership between Chris Rogers and Dawid Malan but Middlesex had a lead of 253 when the score was 299-5 and another 50 runs will make it a difficult chase, which will be good for the title race, if not for Warwickshire.

After Ian Blackwell toiled for 20 overs without success it is Boyd Rankin who has done the damage in his spell since tea, accounting for Rogers, who cut him to slip, Neil Dexter, who was brilliantly caught by William Porterfield at gully, and Adam Rossington, who top-edged a pull.

Rogers made 109 in a stand of 203 with Malan, who went on to complete his second century of the season and remains unbeaten on 109. His wicket is key for Warwickshire, who could be knocked off the top by Sussex.

5.30pm: Ivo Tennant at Somerset v Sussex

Monty Panesar, ‘the Sultan’ himself, has match figures of 13 for 137. He has outbowled Abdur Rehman in this match and has given his county, Sussex, every chance of becoming champions. Sometimes he has seemingly tried to bowl as fast as Derek Underwood, fizzing the ball through on this responsive surface. But you can’t argue with such statistics. Sussex need 164 for victory.

4.45pm: Ivo Tennant at Somerset v Sussex

‘The Sultan’ has four more wickets to add to the seven in took in Somerset’s first innings. Monty Panesar is propelling Sussex towards…..the first division title? Who knows. But James Whitaker, the England selector who came to watch him, has seen enough. For Jos Buttler has also been and gone, cheaply. Whitaker has departed, no doubt to deal with the next KP crisis.

3.30pm: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

The Queen Elizabeth Hospital was part of the explanation for the helicopter, although it was not a case of a faulty satnav. Apparently, there is no open space close to the QE that is suitable for a Chinook, so this one landed in Calthorpe Park so that the patient on board could be transferred to an ambulance. The QE is the hospital that receives incoming wounded from Afghanistan.

There is no parting Dawid Malan and Chris Rogers, whose partnership at 176 is the second biggest for any Middlesex wicket this season, behind the 245 shared by Rogers and Joe Denly for the second wicket against Somerset at Lord's in June. Malan and Rogers have figured in all of the 10 highest Middlesex stands this season, although this is the first involving both. Middlesex are 201-2.

3.20pm: Ivo Tennant at Somerset v Sussex

The search is frantically on at the County Ground for the Somerset mascot, ‘Stumpy,’ who is required to perform before the cameras in Sky’s build-up to t20 finals day at Cardiff on Saturday. Unfortunately for them, he has done a runner. Requests have gone out to rather bemused club and media officials to find him. If he does appear, he will be running with David ‘Bumble’ Lloyd during the event, but otherwise a sub will have to be sent for, if one exists.

3pm: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

I can't seem to watch a game of cricket these days without the involvement of at least one helicopter. After the four spotted circling the ground on days one and two as part of some off-the-wall urban opera production, you might suppose the appearance of just one this afternoon was a lesser event, except that this was one of those twin-rotor Chinooks favoured by the military, which descended into Calthorpe Park -- barely 300 yards behind the Birmingham End -- and then took off again within a few moments, passing perilously close to the floodlight pylon behind the scoreboard.

Its destination was unknown. Speculation is that the pilot had been looking for the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and thought the enormous new pavilion stand here was it.

It was enough to cause a momentary pause in play, although Dawid Malan and Chris Rogers have not been distracted. They are proceeding swimmingly, their partnership for the third wicket currently worth 140 without much hint of a Warwickshire breakthrough. Rogers might have been caught at third man with an uppercut off Boyd Rankin but the ball carried beyond Keith Barker and into the seats for six. 169-2.

2.45pm: Les Smith at Durham v Worcestershire

At 2.15pm the clouds opened above Chester-le-Street and steady rain began to fall. Fortunately for Durham, at 2.05pm Dale Benkenstein had square cut Moeen Ali to the boundary to secure both a fourth successive County Championship victory and security in Division 1. After the mini-collapse at the start of the day, Durham had an ideal partnership in Benkenstein and Paul Collingwood, who both scored undefeated half centuries. Worcestershire, meanwhile, must lick their wounds before heading back to New Road and a crucial fixture against Middlesex next Tuesday.

1.40pm: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

Ian Blackwell opened his bid to become England's second spinner after 13 overs of the Middlesex innings, although he was interrupted after only two overs by lunch, which he may have been pining for anyway. He was Monty's sidekick when he won his only Test cap, in the first Test in Nagpur in March, 2005, when he bowled 19 overs for 71 runs over the two innings without taking a wicket.

Although I feel slightly uncomfortable commenting on body size issues, given that my waist measurement is not what it was, I have to say that Blackie is possibly as large as he has ever been these days and will have to take advice from Samit Patel if he is to rekindle selectorial interest.

Blackwell's real target, of course, does not go beyond making the most of being Warwickshire's first spinner, having been borrowed from Durham after Jeetan Patel was summoned by New Zealand. Speaking the other night, he did mention the 'fitness' word in his explanation as to why Scott Borthwick is the slow bowler of choice at Chester-le-Street. He is clearly hoping that a bunch of wickets will persuade Warwickshire to look beyond such matters and offer him a contract.

At lunch, Middlesex are 68-2. Sam Robson was caught behind and Joe Denly, dropped the next ball while on 0, was brilliantly taken at second slip by the excellent Rikki Clarke, both wickets going to Chris Wright.

1.15pm: Les Smith at Durham v Worcestershire

The crowds here at Chester-le-Street over the last three days have conformed with the County Championship stereotype: overwhelmingly male, and overwhelmingly middle aged or older. The women who are here are mostly with their husbands, and the younger men are mostly with their dads. Should this cause concern to lovers of the four day game about its long term future? Probably. The demographic will be significantly different next Monday when Durham play Hampshire in the forty over format.

Today started encouragingly for Worcestershire as Alan Richardson took three cheap wickets to reduce Durham to 35-4, but the elder statesmen Dale Benkenstein and Paul Collingwood have come together, got their heads down, and guided their team to within thirty runs of their victory target at lunch.

12pm: Ivo Tennant at Somerset v Sussex

James Whitaker, the England selector who is back at the County Ground, smartly turned out as always, is altogether a man of taste and decorum. He has skipped the newspaper stories on Prince Harry’s crown jewels and is concentrating on what Michael Atherton has to say. Sensible person.

11.50am: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

In the end, Warwickshire added 40 in 10.1 overs to their overnight, aided by Toby Roland-Jones bowling short to Keith Barker, who was dropped on the hook/pull on 19 but otherwise profited from the tactic before Tim Murtagh had him caught behind off an inside edge. All out for 333 (a number that will prompt press box colleagues of a certain vintage to recall a Kent freelance with a famous name), which gave them a lead of 46 that might come in handy. Especially if Ian Blackwell can launch a late push for a second Test cap later.

11.30am: Ivo Tennant at Somerset v Sussex

‘The Sultan,’ as England selector James Whitaker calls him, is no footballer. Monty Panesar, who took his career best figures of seven for 60 yesterday, prepared for action today – he hardly needed another bowl in the nets – by kicking a ball around the outfield with his Sussex team-mates. His passing was all over the place. But that hardly matters when he can perform as he did in Somerset’s first innings. Whitaker is back on the County Ground today. And no-one was more generous in assessing his worth than Marcus Trescothick, the one batsman to master his turn and bite on this helpful pitch. Monty will play again for England, for sure.

11.15am: Jon Culley at Warwickshire v Middlesex

Don't know about autumn -- whatever I'm sniffing in the air is making me want to reach for the hayfever pills. Anyway, Warwickshire have achieved their immediate objective, which was to secure a third batting bonus point. They did so in the 94th over, which creates a slight dilemma. They could go hell for leather for a fourth -- and both Chris Wright and Keith Barker are well capable of pushing on -- but that would risk losing their last two wickets cheaply. The ball is only 14 overs old. It might be more sensible for these two to proceed with a bit more circumspection in the hope of scratching out a lead on the assumption that this pitch will become more difficult to bat on. At 307-8, Warwickshire are 20 in front.

11.00am: Les Smith at Durham v Worcestershire

There was a discernible whiff of autumn in the air when I walked into town to get the weekly local paper this morning. (Front page splash: Local family has miserable holiday in Spain, bless them). I drove through heavy rain for a spell in North Yorkshire on the way to Chester-le-Street. Here now the overhead conditions have followed the same pattern as the first two mornings of this match, sunshine early on then cloud moving across as the start of play approaches. Worcestershire’s bowlers will be hoping it stays that way, because they are going to need all the help they can get. Even if we get some of the showers that are forecast, this is a good drying ground and, provided that thy go about their business sensibly, Durham should gain the additional 148 runs they need for a fourth successive County Championship victory by early afternoon. Mark Stoneman and Keaton Jennings have the task of giving their side a solid over the next half hour.

10.45am: Setting the scene

Third day is often moving day in the Championship but we'll also get at least one finish as Durham chase their target at Chester-le-Street. Warwickshire, meanwhile, have not had it all their own way at Edgbaston and neither have the Division Two leaders, Derbyshire, at Northampton.

Yesterday Monty Panesar took a career-best seven-wicket haul and it again ignites the debate about who should be England's second spinner this winter. Monty probably leads the way, but there is also James Tredwell who has had a solid season - and bowled well in the CB40 last night - plus the younger group of Danny Briggs and Simon Kerrigan. Feel free to post your thoughts.

I will leave you in the capable hands of our correspondents around the circuit.

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • pills for weight loss on January 26, 2013, 15:51 GMT

    oZ6SQd Wow, great blog post.Thanks Again. Great.

  • Darren Cook on August 23, 2012, 21:53 GMT

    Swann, Panesar and Tredwell will go to India with Samit Patel in the Squad!

    Although I would take Kerrigan rather than Tredwell.

  • Darren Cook on August 23, 2012, 21:52 GMT

    Swann, Panesar and Tredwell will go to India with Samit Patel in the Squad!

    Although I would take Kerrigan rather than Tredwell.

  • Graem on August 23, 2012, 17:54 GMT

    I've just listened to the latest edition of Switch Hit, where you managed to get through the whole 45 minute programme without mentioning the word 'Sussex' which takes some doing given that during the last week they registered wins in the championship to take them to 2nd, the CB40 to all but book their place in the semi-finals and are through to T20 finals day this Saturday. I suppose it could be put down to western bias. I am also surprised that the words "Matt Prior" were also absent which is odd given how he played in the last Test, the fact that he was England's player of the series and the fact that despite being the outstanding batter in the domestic T20 he has been left out of England's T20 squad. Still, at least Rikki Clarke and Glenn Chapple, Lancashire and Warwickshire got another good airing.

  • J on August 23, 2012, 16:53 GMT

    The spinners in India will be Swann, Panesar, and Tredwell. Tredwell is basically 'Swann-lite', but he's a clever bowler who turns the ball, can bat a bit, and is an excellent field

  • Graem on August 23, 2012, 16:51 GMT

    Last winter Monty played three Tests, bowled superbly in two and was a bit under par in the third after which he is dropped. He is a world class spinner and it would be worrying if England felt unable to pick him alongside Swann on turning pitches. For those of you who say England should play to their seam bowling strengths, that is what they tried to do in the 1st Test in the UAE and came unstuck. It is not rocket science, you play your best bowlers for the conditions. Indian batters would rather face Finn unable to get bounce, pace and movement than Panesar on a slow turner. Whatsmore Indian fans know this and will be nervouse about how their relatively inexperienced duo will measure up next to Swann and Panesar.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 16:19 GMT

    @Thomas - I still don't think two spinners is the way to go if one of them isn't one of your best bowlers; Swann's average against India is high (thanks almost entirely to how masterfully Dravid played him last year) but Monty averages over 50 against them, so I don't think it'd help much. Slow low pitches can help seam too - timing shots is hard, bounce gets uneven and England's tall bowlers can exploit that. Patel could be brought in for Taylor (who had a horror tour of the SC with the Lions over the winter anyway) to provide that back-up option. Broad's pace is a concern, but he bowled superbly against Pakistan and Sri Lanka in similar conditions, so I'd back him for the first two Tests at least. Incidentally I think his pace is down due to the injuries he's had over the last two years, something which people don't seem to pick up on. I'd love to see him crank it up again though - he's a much better bowler when pitching it up at close to 90mph than trundling in at 79!

  • Thomas Alcock on August 23, 2012, 16:09 GMT

    @Samuel - Its very much dependant on the wickets. If they prepare worn, slow, low turners then they have to play the spinners, if they are just slow and low then I understand your point. Even so, one spinner will not be enough, Patel has to be a 5th bowler.

    Broad played one test in India and took 2/134. He's a concern, after being so down on pace.

    Incidentally Swann now averages over 40 against Australia and India, and 39 against SAF. He though remains an excellent spinner, operating within the limitations of just being an orthodox finger spinner.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 15:56 GMT

    @Thomas - I don't think 2 seamers is enough. India play spin so well, especially at home - many a good spinner has gone to India and been sent home in tatters. Play to your strengths - Broad and Anderson were superb in the subcontinent last winter, and Finn was too in the ODIs. India have shown over the past year that they do not play swing and pace very well at all, so I think seam is the way to go. Quality spin, as opposed to quantity, is a better idea.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 15:56 GMT

    @Thomas - I don't think 2 seamers is enough. India play spin so well, especially at home - many a good spinner has gone to India and been sent home in tatters. Play to your strengths - Broad and Anderson were superb in the subcontinent last winter, and Finn was too in the ODIs. India have shown over the past year that they do not play swing and pace very well at all, so I think seam is the way to go. Quality spin, as opposed to quantity, is the way to go.

  • pills for weight loss on January 26, 2013, 15:51 GMT

    oZ6SQd Wow, great blog post.Thanks Again. Great.

  • Darren Cook on August 23, 2012, 21:53 GMT

    Swann, Panesar and Tredwell will go to India with Samit Patel in the Squad!

    Although I would take Kerrigan rather than Tredwell.

  • Darren Cook on August 23, 2012, 21:52 GMT

    Swann, Panesar and Tredwell will go to India with Samit Patel in the Squad!

    Although I would take Kerrigan rather than Tredwell.

  • Graem on August 23, 2012, 17:54 GMT

    I've just listened to the latest edition of Switch Hit, where you managed to get through the whole 45 minute programme without mentioning the word 'Sussex' which takes some doing given that during the last week they registered wins in the championship to take them to 2nd, the CB40 to all but book their place in the semi-finals and are through to T20 finals day this Saturday. I suppose it could be put down to western bias. I am also surprised that the words "Matt Prior" were also absent which is odd given how he played in the last Test, the fact that he was England's player of the series and the fact that despite being the outstanding batter in the domestic T20 he has been left out of England's T20 squad. Still, at least Rikki Clarke and Glenn Chapple, Lancashire and Warwickshire got another good airing.

  • J on August 23, 2012, 16:53 GMT

    The spinners in India will be Swann, Panesar, and Tredwell. Tredwell is basically 'Swann-lite', but he's a clever bowler who turns the ball, can bat a bit, and is an excellent field

  • Graem on August 23, 2012, 16:51 GMT

    Last winter Monty played three Tests, bowled superbly in two and was a bit under par in the third after which he is dropped. He is a world class spinner and it would be worrying if England felt unable to pick him alongside Swann on turning pitches. For those of you who say England should play to their seam bowling strengths, that is what they tried to do in the 1st Test in the UAE and came unstuck. It is not rocket science, you play your best bowlers for the conditions. Indian batters would rather face Finn unable to get bounce, pace and movement than Panesar on a slow turner. Whatsmore Indian fans know this and will be nervouse about how their relatively inexperienced duo will measure up next to Swann and Panesar.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 16:19 GMT

    @Thomas - I still don't think two spinners is the way to go if one of them isn't one of your best bowlers; Swann's average against India is high (thanks almost entirely to how masterfully Dravid played him last year) but Monty averages over 50 against them, so I don't think it'd help much. Slow low pitches can help seam too - timing shots is hard, bounce gets uneven and England's tall bowlers can exploit that. Patel could be brought in for Taylor (who had a horror tour of the SC with the Lions over the winter anyway) to provide that back-up option. Broad's pace is a concern, but he bowled superbly against Pakistan and Sri Lanka in similar conditions, so I'd back him for the first two Tests at least. Incidentally I think his pace is down due to the injuries he's had over the last two years, something which people don't seem to pick up on. I'd love to see him crank it up again though - he's a much better bowler when pitching it up at close to 90mph than trundling in at 79!

  • Thomas Alcock on August 23, 2012, 16:09 GMT

    @Samuel - Its very much dependant on the wickets. If they prepare worn, slow, low turners then they have to play the spinners, if they are just slow and low then I understand your point. Even so, one spinner will not be enough, Patel has to be a 5th bowler.

    Broad played one test in India and took 2/134. He's a concern, after being so down on pace.

    Incidentally Swann now averages over 40 against Australia and India, and 39 against SAF. He though remains an excellent spinner, operating within the limitations of just being an orthodox finger spinner.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 15:56 GMT

    @Thomas - I don't think 2 seamers is enough. India play spin so well, especially at home - many a good spinner has gone to India and been sent home in tatters. Play to your strengths - Broad and Anderson were superb in the subcontinent last winter, and Finn was too in the ODIs. India have shown over the past year that they do not play swing and pace very well at all, so I think seam is the way to go. Quality spin, as opposed to quantity, is a better idea.

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 15:56 GMT

    @Thomas - I don't think 2 seamers is enough. India play spin so well, especially at home - many a good spinner has gone to India and been sent home in tatters. Play to your strengths - Broad and Anderson were superb in the subcontinent last winter, and Finn was too in the ODIs. India have shown over the past year that they do not play swing and pace very well at all, so I think seam is the way to go. Quality spin, as opposed to quantity, is the way to go.

  • Thomas Alcock on August 23, 2012, 15:41 GMT

    If they do prepare bunsen burners, (which they are very much entitled to do) I'd play two seamers; Anderson and Finn and two spinners; Swann and Panesar, and Samit at 6, for a bit of variety.

    Kerrigan and Tredwell the other two leading options. Briggs doesn't do enough with it to be considered for Test Cricket.

    The spinners won't let England down in India, the batting might.

    Some really good cricket shaping up around the country today, Bears struggling due to lack of a quality spinner.

  • Steve Ward on August 23, 2012, 14:48 GMT

    Why on earth are people still talking about Rashid??

    Swann, Monty, Samit - plenty of variety amongst those three. We haven't got a leggie whose ready yet.

  • shahid on August 23, 2012, 14:21 GMT

    other contenders in my eyes for the england spinner roles are rashid maybe , borthwick and even rafiq

  • shahid on August 23, 2012, 14:21 GMT

    other contenders in my eyes for the england spinner roles are rashid maybe , borthwick and even rafiq

  • shahid on August 23, 2012, 14:21 GMT

    other contenders in my eyes for the england spinner roles are rashid maybe , borthwick and even rafiq

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 13:46 GMT

    Also, on the point of England's Lions selections muddying the issue of the replacements, my theory has been that the Lions is the place to test out youngsters and people on the fringes of selection. If the selectors know that Panesar and Davies are their first choice back-ups in their positions, then there's no need to look at them maybe? Although considering Davies' fairly average form this year and Kieswetter's superb batting for the Lions, I wouldn't be surprised to see Craig go to India as back-up keeper!

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 13:37 GMT

    That said, just because it's India doesn't mean England should pack their sides with spin. Overseas spinners have a history of struggling in India, and spin bowling is hardly one of our strengths. Anderson, Broad and Swann all bowled beautifully last winter in the UAE and Sri Lanka, and Finn will be able to exploit uneven bounce as the pitches break up out there. As Simon says though, whoever plays England need to start holding their catches again!

  • Samuel on August 23, 2012, 13:32 GMT

    They'll take Swann, Panesar and Tredwell to India. I'd prefer them to take Kerrigan to Panesar though - after all the talk of Monty's second coming last winter, Swann's figures were still better, and against the better players of spin that Sri Lanka have in Galle, even on a turning wicket Monty looked pretty average. Whether India is the place to throw a young spinner in is another question, but Kerrigan seems to be fairly solid temperamentally. I'd take him over Briggs as he's learned to bowl in the championship, as opposed to T20 - Briggs is a defensive bowler not suited to Test cricket yet in my eyes. If Kerrigan goes on tour I'd like to see him play - Rashid stagnated by going on winter tours and not bowling, so if a young spinner is taken, they have to play at some point. Tredwell goes whatever for me - as an off-spinner who bats, he is the replacement for Swann if he goes down injured, and is an underrated bowler in his own right.

  • Sybil on August 23, 2012, 13:31 GMT

    Written by Arthur Salway

  • Sybil on August 23, 2012, 13:30 GMT

    So never mind muscles and fitness And everything else on the list; When alls said and done, this game can be won By no more than a turn of the wrist.

  • Sybil on August 23, 2012, 13:27 GMT

    Soccer is won with cultured feet And rugger with grit and grist; But when cricket is played the difference is made By a delicate turn of the wrist.

    Our modern-day players are athletes But expertise doesn't consist Of power or pace: take W. G. Grace, It was all in his turn of the wrist.

    Give K.P. a well pitched up straight one That would bowl any batsman who missed, And it's off middle peg and down through long leg With a powerful turn of the wrist. When Warne thinks a batsman can read him He'll bowl one he cannot resisst. It isn't the grunt that gets him up front It's the well-disguised turn of the wrist.

    It helps if a chap's double jointed As slow motion replays will tell. In the instance of Murali, I fancy there's surely A turn of the elbow as well. It's not only batsmen and bowlers From artistry will not desist; "Owzat?" they all shout, and the mans given out With an elegant turn of the wrist.

  • Derek on August 23, 2012, 13:17 GMT

    Cockney Barrow - an average of 50 in India is pretty good going, better than most of the top 5! What a lad!

  • Cockney Barrow Boy on August 23, 2012, 13:14 GMT

    If we are talking about this winter's tour to India, I don't know why there is such a high regard for Panesar. His form against good players of spin is terrible. He averages comfortably above fifty in India and Sri Lanka. His perfrmance in Galle earlier this year reminded me of nearly all the other performances he made in that part of the world, flat and one diamensional. And don't get me started on his fielding.

  • Stevo on August 23, 2012, 12:44 GMT

    I reckon go for 5 seamers and we'll blast them away! I don't suppose we'll need a spinner but if we do I'm sure Straussy can knock out a few leg breaks. Anyway - why can't Evo Tenant write about the cricket at Somerset rather than various blokes he's seen in the croud?

  • Paul Clarke on August 23, 2012, 12:34 GMT

    It's Monty no doubt. He needs to bowl 4 mph slower so they'll work on that - but he's the guy. England to play 2 spinners in every game with one of the youngsters along for the experience. That's about it really. Except that Samit and maybe Rashid could come in for the one day stuff

  • Paul Clarke on August 23, 2012, 12:33 GMT

    It's Monty no doubt. He needs to bowl 4 mph slower so they'll work on that - but he's the guy. England to play 2 spinners in every game with one of the youngsters along for the experience. That's about it reall. Except that Samit and maybe Rashid could come in for the one day stuff

  • jimmer on August 23, 2012, 11:57 GMT

    Monty 2nd best by a long way.Briggs hardly gets a 4 day game for Hants so cannot really be considered for England.Would be nice to see Rashid back but some way to go there i think so Samit Patel for India as 3rd spinner would be best option

  • IGiveUp on August 23, 2012, 10:53 GMT

    If there was doubt about Monty in Andrew McGlashen's eyes, that may have something to do with the rather odd Lions selections of late. When Monty is not picked and Kerrigan and Tredwell bowl well for the Lions it rather confuses the picture and makes you wonder why our established reserves arn't getting picked. Our established reserve keeper is Steve Davies yet the selectors pick Kieswetter who then scores runs. Now with the emergence of Bairstow it is hard to imagine Davies getting the gig, yet he hasn't been given the chance to remind the selectors of what he can do.

  • Simon on August 23, 2012, 10:43 GMT

    Seriously tho, one thing that England will be looking at is fielding as the catching is something that has cost them against SA. Monty's lack of ability in the field will really count against him. And as Bres and Broady are both looking less capable with the bat and the likelihood of Finn playing - the tail is looking a bit long these days.

    Tredwell or Patel should be in or possibly Kerrigan at this stage. but, I think I'd take a punt on Patel, just for his batting.

  • Looey on August 23, 2012, 10:35 GMT

    It's a non-argument. Monty is undoubtedly the next best option and as Benny implies, he may be a better bowler than Swann as the latter's star descends.

    Kerrigan and Tredwell would seem to be the next in line. The former is very talented but still learning variation (then again, so is Monty!) and the latter a fiercely clever bowler who has the handy advantages of being able to bat and being a top-class slip fielder.

    I think they should take Tredwell as the 3rd spinner to India; Kerrigan, Wainwright and Azeem Rafiq for the Lions. Briggs is a one-day specialist dart bowler I'm afraid. Hants prefer to use Liam Dawson in 4-day games, so that tells you plenty about Briggs' test prospects.

  • Looey on August 23, 2012, 10:35 GMT

    It's a non-argument. Monty is undoubtedly the next best option and as Benny implies, he may be a better bowler than Swann as the latter's star descends.

    Kerrigan and Tredwell would seem to be the next in line. The former is very talented but still learning variation (then again, so is Monty!) and the latter a fiercely clever bowler who has the handy advantages of being able to bat and being a top-class slip fielder.

    I think they should take Tredwell as the 3rd spinner to India; Kerrigan, Wainwright and Azeem Rafiq for the Lions. Briggs is a one-day specialist dart bowler I'm afraid. Hants prefer to use Liam Dawson in 4-day games, so that tells you plenty about Briggs' test prospects.

  • Simon on August 23, 2012, 10:35 GMT

    Second spinner - surely it must be Pietersen

  • Momo on August 23, 2012, 10:34 GMT

    @Michael: Dockrell is a great talent but lets try and pick from the English guys eh? Who knows, he could be playing test cricket for Ireland at some stage, fingers crossed.

    @Derek: For me, Briggs is a limited overs spinner, he would not be as much of a threat to high class players of spin as someone like Kerrigan who, you know, actually turns the ball. His FC record is not bad, but I doubt he would trouble the Indians.

    Monty is easily the second spinner. Kerrigan third. I'd like to see Rashid back on the horse, or Will Beer or Borthwick. Be nice to have a wristy.

  • Ray W on August 23, 2012, 10:32 GMT

    The very unorthodox SLC spinner Michael Rippon of Sussex should be England qualified in what, 6 years, assuming he wants to play for England. And assuming he develops.

    It's extremely difficult to know which spinners will develop. Who 4 years ago thought Swann would be world class? You need a lot of qualities, including tons of confidence.

  • Wigs on August 23, 2012, 10:30 GMT

    Monty - no question. Given Swann's recent form, I would suggest that it is only Monty's liabilities in the field and lack of ability with the bat, with a team including Anderson and Finn in mind, that have stopped him becoming England's number 1 spinner. If England take three spinners, Briggs is one choice but don't rule out Samit Patel.

  • Guardian Refugee on August 23, 2012, 10:20 GMT

    "Yesterday Monty Panesar took a career-best seven-wicket haul and it again ignites the debate about who should be England's second spinner this winter." Seriously Nasher? Not one little bit in my view. I think Monty has been England's reserve spinner for a long while now and that there is still a very big gap between Swann & Panesat and the rest. If another spinner plays against India this winter then it will be Samit Patel for different reasons.

  • Derek Grabham on August 23, 2012, 10:13 GMT

    I will take three spinners to India as they will produce turning pitches (a home advantage trait!).

    My choice of three spinners are Graeme Swann, Monty Panesar and Danny Briggs. Two experienced (one right and one left arm bowlers, giving some variety to Strauss & Co) plus a beginner to learn the experiences.

    That makes sense to me!!

  • michael on August 23, 2012, 10:09 GMT

    in a few years time they should look at the irishman George Dockrell

  • Benny on August 23, 2012, 10:07 GMT

    Graeme Swann

  • Tony Jorna on August 23, 2012, 10:06 GMT

    I really do not think that either Tredwell or Briggs have delivered the level of performance in 2012 to merit inclusion. In many respects, David Wainwright has risen above both of these guys during the season, albeit after drifting out of the selectors' thoughts over the past couple of years.

    At the moment, I can't imagine the selectors will look further than Monty, but with an eye to the future, Kerrigan's star should be burning bright.

  • Tony Jorna on August 23, 2012, 10:06 GMT

    I really do not think that either Tredwell or Briggs have delivered the level of performance in 2012 to merit inclusion. In many respects, David Wainwright has risen above both of these guys during the season, albeit after drifting out of the selectors' thoughts over the past couple of years.

    At the moment, I can't imagine the selectors will look further than Monty, but with an eye to the future, Kerrigan's star should be burning bright.

  • William Franklin on August 23, 2012, 10:05 GMT

    Kerrigan got demolished by KP a few weeks back I think. Talking of which, great news for Surrey that he is avaliable for all their remaining matches.

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  • William Franklin on August 23, 2012, 10:05 GMT

    Kerrigan got demolished by KP a few weeks back I think. Talking of which, great news for Surrey that he is avaliable for all their remaining matches.

  • Tony Jorna on August 23, 2012, 10:06 GMT

    I really do not think that either Tredwell or Briggs have delivered the level of performance in 2012 to merit inclusion. In many respects, David Wainwright has risen above both of these guys during the season, albeit after drifting out of the selectors' thoughts over the past couple of years.

    At the moment, I can't imagine the selectors will look further than Monty, but with an eye to the future, Kerrigan's star should be burning bright.

  • Tony Jorna on August 23, 2012, 10:06 GMT

    I really do not think that either Tredwell or Briggs have delivered the level of performance in 2012 to merit inclusion. In many respects, David Wainwright has risen above both of these guys during the season, albeit after drifting out of the selectors' thoughts over the past couple of years.

    At the moment, I can't imagine the selectors will look further than Monty, but with an eye to the future, Kerrigan's star should be burning bright.

  • Benny on August 23, 2012, 10:07 GMT

    Graeme Swann

  • michael on August 23, 2012, 10:09 GMT

    in a few years time they should look at the irishman George Dockrell

  • Derek Grabham on August 23, 2012, 10:13 GMT

    I will take three spinners to India as they will produce turning pitches (a home advantage trait!).

    My choice of three spinners are Graeme Swann, Monty Panesar and Danny Briggs. Two experienced (one right and one left arm bowlers, giving some variety to Strauss & Co) plus a beginner to learn the experiences.

    That makes sense to me!!

  • Guardian Refugee on August 23, 2012, 10:20 GMT

    "Yesterday Monty Panesar took a career-best seven-wicket haul and it again ignites the debate about who should be England's second spinner this winter." Seriously Nasher? Not one little bit in my view. I think Monty has been England's reserve spinner for a long while now and that there is still a very big gap between Swann & Panesat and the rest. If another spinner plays against India this winter then it will be Samit Patel for different reasons.

  • Wigs on August 23, 2012, 10:30 GMT

    Monty - no question. Given Swann's recent form, I would suggest that it is only Monty's liabilities in the field and lack of ability with the bat, with a team including Anderson and Finn in mind, that have stopped him becoming England's number 1 spinner. If England take three spinners, Briggs is one choice but don't rule out Samit Patel.

  • Ray W on August 23, 2012, 10:32 GMT

    The very unorthodox SLC spinner Michael Rippon of Sussex should be England qualified in what, 6 years, assuming he wants to play for England. And assuming he develops.

    It's extremely difficult to know which spinners will develop. Who 4 years ago thought Swann would be world class? You need a lot of qualities, including tons of confidence.

  • Momo on August 23, 2012, 10:34 GMT

    @Michael: Dockrell is a great talent but lets try and pick from the English guys eh? Who knows, he could be playing test cricket for Ireland at some stage, fingers crossed.

    @Derek: For me, Briggs is a limited overs spinner, he would not be as much of a threat to high class players of spin as someone like Kerrigan who, you know, actually turns the ball. His FC record is not bad, but I doubt he would trouble the Indians.

    Monty is easily the second spinner. Kerrigan third. I'd like to see Rashid back on the horse, or Will Beer or Borthwick. Be nice to have a wristy.