World Twenty20 2012 September 24, 2012

England look to learn but also forget

ESPNcricinfo staff
72

Not for the first time this year England were back in the nets trying to find a way to solve their problems against spin. The net session at the P Sara Oval was not a direct response to the demise for 80 against India - they had been scheduled for a likely training session in any case - but the events of the previous evening gave a clear focus to what was required.

Andy Flower and Graham Gooch, two outstanding batsmen of spin in their day, gave plenty of throw downs and shared plenty of advice as they have done throughout the year. On the evidence of how the current crop played Harbhajan Singh and Piyush Chawla not all of it is being absorbed.

The middle of a tournament is not the time to be trying to remodel techniques or radically change gameplans, but if England have serious ambitions of moving beyond the Super Eight stage they are going to have to adapt quickly. Their half of the draw has been termed the easier route to the knockout stage, yet each team they face will have bowlers to exploit their major weakness.

Sunil Narine will be first, when they face West Indies on Thursday, followed by the more orthodox but no-less-effective Daniel Vettori then back to mystery with a four-over trial from Ajantha Mendis. Do not rule out Sri Lanka throwing in their wild-card, 18-year old Akila Dananjaya, either. It is those future challenges, rather than what happened on Sunday evening, that is now the focus of the England team.

"It was a disappointing performance - we're human enough to say that and realise that obvious fact," Craig Kieswetter said. "We've played spin well; we've beaten Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan in the sub-continent before. It was just a bad performance.

"We're not getting too down about it. Confidence is still high; we're still playing some great cricket and we're pretty glad we've got that game out of the way at the best time possible."

Much like Stuart Broad's assertion that England do not have a problem against spin it was not entirely convincing from Kieswetter, who top-scored in the 80 with 35 made largely before the spinners came on, but the quick-fire nature of the tournament does at least offer a chance to move on quickly. Kieswetter will also remember that England were far from convincing getting out of their group in 2010 - squeezing through without winning a game - before surging to the title.

"What's done is done. We did what we needed to do and qualified and now we're through to the business part of the competition," he said. "Now you'll see the good teams put their hands up and actually put up performances that really matter."

But can England fine a way against spin? "You've got to be more streetwise, be prepared to score ugly runs. We've got to be adaptable to the wickets," he said. "We played across the line a bit too much. We should have played a bit straighter.

"We realise that; we've highlighted it and we're obviously going to learn from that. It's probably a good learning curve to have. It didn't turn as much and we probably expected, and we played for a bit too much turn. The ball's a bit more unpredictable here - it either spins or it doesn't - it's not as predictable as in England."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Front-Foot_lunge on September 26, 2012, 12:19 GMT

    As an England fan, the words 'Match practice' is the words that no-one is using here. Its fine to say 'we've handled spin before' but quite frankly, in a real match, England hasn't. In fact, in many occasions they have been made to look like first years being chastised by their Physics Master. Well, the flaw in England's setup is when do they get a chance to face bowlers of decent quality? You can turn the "Merlin' up to "Warne", but lets face it, facing Swann (who can only bowl a straight-un) in the nets in no preparation to actual match practice. His mouth offers greater variation than his bowling, and to me therein lies the rub. Team England, isn't about application, discipline and learining and applying your trade. Its about mouthing off and hubristic declarations of superiority underlined by our innate sense of entitlement. As soon as we lose that, then we can progress as a cricket team.

  • ashes61 on September 26, 2012, 10:37 GMT

    Any team left in can win this tornament. ANY team! Partly because there is no outstandingly good side & also no side which is obviously too weak to go through to the next round. That alone makes it intriguiing. But as it is also the lowest form of the pyjama version of the game, it has always been - & remains - a bit of a lottery. Any team can win a 20 over game & any team can lose it. Including a team which was thrashed only a few days earlier. This is so demonstrably true that it shouldn't need emphasising. ENG batted awfully the other day against some pretty ordinary slow bowlers. No-one denies that. They also batted with too little patience (if that's possible in a 20 over game).They are not the best in the world against spin but are also not normally quite as bad as that. Could they defeat a team packed with spinners in the next week or so? Yes. Could they succumb in similar fasshion? Yes. If they crumble again, will it be the end of the world? No - this is ONLY T20, remember!

  • 158notout on September 26, 2012, 7:52 GMT

    @cricindiaforlife - I agree entirely with you. There is no way I was denying England have a problem against spin. All I was trying to prove is that those posters that came on before and stated that CK was lying or mistaken should look at the evidence. He was referring to the T20 WC and talking about T20i's. Thats all. @Aksita - you made another common mistake recently. No one player can undermine team unity and get away with it. OK, KP played in those matches where we beat SL, Pak and India but so were 10 other players. @Rahulbose - see my previous post for the matches CK is talking about. @Vikneshwar Elango - jog on. No room for trolling here.

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:48 GMT

    @Anubhav Agrawal on (September 26 2012, 04:57 AM GMT) I'm worried about alot of things re the way we're going about this tournament. I have my doubts that we'll learn but time will tell

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:48 GMT

    @Vikneshwar Elango on (September 26 2012, 02:29 AM GMT) Is there really any point in dredging all of this up again? If my team had just lost 8 away tests in a row , most by an inns , I would not be commenting on any other team. India are in a better state in this tournament momentum/confidence wise at the moment but that can all change. We all start afresh from tomorrow onwards so maybe best to refrain from the gloats/snipes at this point. There's always the possibility - however remote - that Eng progress through the super 8s and India don't.

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:38 GMT

    @phoenixsteve on (September 25 2012, 19:15 PM GMT) We should at least have had a second spinning option in there - IMO a 3rd spinning option. I think we got carried away with how the faster short pitched stuff worked against Afghan on a faster pitch against more vulenerable batsmen and as is so often the case we had no plan B. Can you or anyone tell me that they think Briggs would do a lesser job than Finn or Dernbach? I think the next pitch is supposed to be pacier but even on a pacier pitch our seamers have to get their radar right which so far they have not done.

  • on September 26, 2012, 4:57 GMT

    If I was an english I would have been quite worried because Harbhajan and Piyush did not bowl any great bowl and neither of them are in form, Narine and mendis on the contrary are actually playing quite well. If England wins against any team that will be because that team did not play overall, because England's batting looks spineless against spin mostly because they are a young team and have almost no experience on sub-continental pitches.

  • on September 26, 2012, 2:29 GMT

    ENG is a minnow team and it is proven ... Every team almost wins only at home and loses in overseas.. But if u compare ENG with others, ENG is the worst.. losing to PAK when chasing 145 ... no team would have lost thIat match..getting all out to 72 in tests and 80 to t20s... ENG fans who made fun of IND , need to remember that we have made 250+ in every innings .... but poor minnows ENG struggling to make even 100+ ... If BCCI prepares square turners (how ENG prepared grassy pitches) , ENG will lose 4-0 ... u ppl said IND dint even make 300 .. but i would say ENG wont even make 200 in any innings if this happens ... 4-0 is on the way to ENGLAND ... poor minnows!!! shame to cricket since it is born in ENG

  • Chris_P on September 26, 2012, 0:07 GMT

    In this format, you are only as good as your next game. This format is the least likely success to use as a form guide. You would be very brave to suggest England will repeat their dismal last start effort. You don't get to #1 doing that every game, so get a grip on reality.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on September 25, 2012, 21:02 GMT

    Practising with toy equipment and rubber balls to get a nice photo there aint gonna help England!

  • Front-Foot_lunge on September 26, 2012, 12:19 GMT

    As an England fan, the words 'Match practice' is the words that no-one is using here. Its fine to say 'we've handled spin before' but quite frankly, in a real match, England hasn't. In fact, in many occasions they have been made to look like first years being chastised by their Physics Master. Well, the flaw in England's setup is when do they get a chance to face bowlers of decent quality? You can turn the "Merlin' up to "Warne", but lets face it, facing Swann (who can only bowl a straight-un) in the nets in no preparation to actual match practice. His mouth offers greater variation than his bowling, and to me therein lies the rub. Team England, isn't about application, discipline and learining and applying your trade. Its about mouthing off and hubristic declarations of superiority underlined by our innate sense of entitlement. As soon as we lose that, then we can progress as a cricket team.

  • ashes61 on September 26, 2012, 10:37 GMT

    Any team left in can win this tornament. ANY team! Partly because there is no outstandingly good side & also no side which is obviously too weak to go through to the next round. That alone makes it intriguiing. But as it is also the lowest form of the pyjama version of the game, it has always been - & remains - a bit of a lottery. Any team can win a 20 over game & any team can lose it. Including a team which was thrashed only a few days earlier. This is so demonstrably true that it shouldn't need emphasising. ENG batted awfully the other day against some pretty ordinary slow bowlers. No-one denies that. They also batted with too little patience (if that's possible in a 20 over game).They are not the best in the world against spin but are also not normally quite as bad as that. Could they defeat a team packed with spinners in the next week or so? Yes. Could they succumb in similar fasshion? Yes. If they crumble again, will it be the end of the world? No - this is ONLY T20, remember!

  • 158notout on September 26, 2012, 7:52 GMT

    @cricindiaforlife - I agree entirely with you. There is no way I was denying England have a problem against spin. All I was trying to prove is that those posters that came on before and stated that CK was lying or mistaken should look at the evidence. He was referring to the T20 WC and talking about T20i's. Thats all. @Aksita - you made another common mistake recently. No one player can undermine team unity and get away with it. OK, KP played in those matches where we beat SL, Pak and India but so were 10 other players. @Rahulbose - see my previous post for the matches CK is talking about. @Vikneshwar Elango - jog on. No room for trolling here.

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:48 GMT

    @Anubhav Agrawal on (September 26 2012, 04:57 AM GMT) I'm worried about alot of things re the way we're going about this tournament. I have my doubts that we'll learn but time will tell

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:48 GMT

    @Vikneshwar Elango on (September 26 2012, 02:29 AM GMT) Is there really any point in dredging all of this up again? If my team had just lost 8 away tests in a row , most by an inns , I would not be commenting on any other team. India are in a better state in this tournament momentum/confidence wise at the moment but that can all change. We all start afresh from tomorrow onwards so maybe best to refrain from the gloats/snipes at this point. There's always the possibility - however remote - that Eng progress through the super 8s and India don't.

  • JG2704 on September 26, 2012, 7:38 GMT

    @phoenixsteve on (September 25 2012, 19:15 PM GMT) We should at least have had a second spinning option in there - IMO a 3rd spinning option. I think we got carried away with how the faster short pitched stuff worked against Afghan on a faster pitch against more vulenerable batsmen and as is so often the case we had no plan B. Can you or anyone tell me that they think Briggs would do a lesser job than Finn or Dernbach? I think the next pitch is supposed to be pacier but even on a pacier pitch our seamers have to get their radar right which so far they have not done.

  • on September 26, 2012, 4:57 GMT

    If I was an english I would have been quite worried because Harbhajan and Piyush did not bowl any great bowl and neither of them are in form, Narine and mendis on the contrary are actually playing quite well. If England wins against any team that will be because that team did not play overall, because England's batting looks spineless against spin mostly because they are a young team and have almost no experience on sub-continental pitches.

  • on September 26, 2012, 2:29 GMT

    ENG is a minnow team and it is proven ... Every team almost wins only at home and loses in overseas.. But if u compare ENG with others, ENG is the worst.. losing to PAK when chasing 145 ... no team would have lost thIat match..getting all out to 72 in tests and 80 to t20s... ENG fans who made fun of IND , need to remember that we have made 250+ in every innings .... but poor minnows ENG struggling to make even 100+ ... If BCCI prepares square turners (how ENG prepared grassy pitches) , ENG will lose 4-0 ... u ppl said IND dint even make 300 .. but i would say ENG wont even make 200 in any innings if this happens ... 4-0 is on the way to ENGLAND ... poor minnows!!! shame to cricket since it is born in ENG

  • Chris_P on September 26, 2012, 0:07 GMT

    In this format, you are only as good as your next game. This format is the least likely success to use as a form guide. You would be very brave to suggest England will repeat their dismal last start effort. You don't get to #1 doing that every game, so get a grip on reality.

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on September 25, 2012, 21:02 GMT

    Practising with toy equipment and rubber balls to get a nice photo there aint gonna help England!

  • elimomin on September 25, 2012, 20:33 GMT

    this is england team without KP

  • Rahulbose on September 25, 2012, 19:57 GMT

    Remind me when did Keiswetter beat India and Pakistan in sub-continent. Must be a Star trek parallel universe episode I missed. The simple fact that Eng are having a panic session on how to play spin means they will probably struggle against them. It is amazing though how often Eng teams keep failing against spin.

  • Nadeem1976 on September 25, 2012, 19:38 GMT

    I am laughing that england is going to face mendis and narine in super eight. that will be fun to watch because english batsmen are hapless against spin. If england over come these two spinners then they will again face indian or pakistan spinners so no chance for england to win this WC. They should pack their bags and head home now. No chance.

  • JG2704 on September 25, 2012, 19:24 GMT

    @always_SA on (September 25 2012, 11:47 AM GMT) Why is it when we lose it's a genuine defeat and when we beat a team there's always some other reason? And did I say we beat India all the time? Although having said that I believe we've a fairly good record vs India in T20 but they were probably all flukes too right? In fact England have won more games than they've lost in this format so our fans can say every time they lose it's a fluke because it is more uncommon than winning?

  • phoenixsteve on September 25, 2012, 19:15 GMT

    If spin is such a deadly weapon in the sub-continent WHy aren't we (England) playing our spinners? One of them can bat too (Patel) but we seem to be fretting about facing spin. Strange for the no 1 T20 side and very negaitve thinking by England. For me the side should be made up of 2 quicks (Finn and Broad) and the three spinners (Swann, Briggs and Patel) and the batters need to be reminded about the basics! Forget these fancy paddle shots and reverse sweeps 'til at least the 11th over. If we are only 50 for 0 at the halfway stage then's the time to improvise? Pressure goes both ways and a bowling side that hasn't taken wickets is also under pressure! As Pakistan showed today committed running can turn almost any shot into a single? This frantic leming type style of batting should be confined to the final half - you can't over-estimate the value of a good start. COME ON ENGLAND!!!

  • perl57 on September 25, 2012, 18:23 GMT

    Let us say, English were mightily optimistic about their performance. They performed well at Home and once in Australia. I would like to see it this time around when they go for Ashes. First and foremost, England are pathetic when it comes to playing Spin. Second, they are not at all sportive. Heck, worse than Oz. First Sunil Narine will give them a pasting of a life time, then Vettori will roll them in mud followed by Mendis' mystery making them history. Good Luck.

  • knan on September 25, 2012, 17:29 GMT

    Eng batsmen seem to think that horizontal bat shots is the way to go against spinners bowling on wickets that aid some spin ( not turners ). This thinking is probably due to the presence of Andy Flower and Gooch in the coaching staff , both of whom were very good players of the sweep shot. Unless the Eng batsmen learn to use their feet to the spinners , they will not progress very far. It would be interesting to see how they negotiate Narine, Mendis , Herath etc in the Super 8 stage. Without KP this team looks like a county team and not an international side , who were champions in the past.

  • on September 25, 2012, 16:58 GMT

    No KP no win for Eng in big matches..

  • cover_drive12345 on September 25, 2012, 16:57 GMT

    Agree with FreddyForPrimeMinister, saying they are terrible playing is not really the brightest thin to say, it just shows a great gaping mental weakness that other teams will exploit, which is why staying positive is just for the media to swallow, I bet they all know that they have problems about spin, no need to yell about it. Does anybody else think that the Super 8 groups are a bit ridiculous though? Proteas, Ozzies, Pak and India in one group and Windies, England, NZ and Sri Lanka in another? A bit unfair maybe?

  • jango_moh on September 25, 2012, 16:49 GMT

    as an indian fan, i wish eng all the best.... ive noticed one thing about eng articles here, either its doomsday or its complete sycophancy... when will realistic views come in, atleast we hve some ppl like akash chopra and manjrekar who r realists!!! i just think fans shudnt read too much into these articles, i think eng is still a pretty good team, and it was just one bad game....

  • TheBengalTiger on September 25, 2012, 15:58 GMT

    I wish people would stop saying this pitch was a turner. It really really wasn't. It didn't even turn. England and Australia have to prepare as fast and as bouncy pitches as possible. Its why they struggle even in their home countries when the pitch isn't fast and bouncy.

  • Valavan on September 25, 2012, 15:58 GMT

    @always_SA,your last lines are really funny, England won a fluke T20 in India last year, but for a very long time,SA havent won any test or series in SL, which is also subcontinent, You must agree to RajGanesan as Oz won both bilateral ODI series in India back 2009 and 2007. The most funniest of your comment is Aus, SA, Ind and Pak for semis, that is just impossible as those 4 teams are gonna be in the same group, please check T20 fixtures to verify my words. what i can say SA can still choke, unfortunately that becomes the truth. cricinfo please publish.

  • Akshita29 on September 25, 2012, 15:25 GMT

    @158notout buddy all of those matches you are referring to had The one player whose name should not be mentioned performing for England . He scored A 50 against India in the Eden Garden . And he was the highest scorer and man of the series in the t20 series against Pak in UAE . So you cannot referr to them wrt world t20 2012 as he is not in the team but in the studio..

  • Akshita29 on September 25, 2012, 15:13 GMT

    To be honest England should not worry . They are really weak against spin . But they will be playing in Pallakele . It has not turned much there . So England can beat WI and NZ and go through to semis with ease .. However it wont prove that they can play spin well . They are weak and remain so ...

  • thebarmyarmy on September 25, 2012, 15:09 GMT

    Who cares about the last game. We ended up in a better super 8's group anyway :)

  • subbass on September 25, 2012, 14:52 GMT

    It's a mental thing no training or talking will solve it, only getting CONSISTENT results so the memory is happy.

  • wablo55 on September 25, 2012, 13:24 GMT

    Trying to stumble upon a 'blanket method' to deal with spin bowling is as nonsensical as sub-continental batsmen trying to do the same thing with short-pitched bowling. Instead batsmen should be equipped with all the tools necessary to treat each ball on its merits and to be able to deploy the necessary shot when required. Simply trying to sweep or reverse-sweep every spinning delivery does not work. How many of England's wickets on Sunday were lost to futile pre-meditation? There is little doubt that the England batsmen have the talent to cope with spin, but they need to stop being so lazy mentally; instead of relying on a blanket prescription, they should watch the ball and play it on its merits. Oh, and a bit of graciousness in defeat wouldn't go a miss Mr. Kieswetter. Sounding hubristic after you've received a pounding is at best, ill-advised.

  • cricindia4life on September 25, 2012, 12:22 GMT

    @158notout, it is not difficult to keep the formats separated. But when you're talking about incompetency against spin, it doesn't have to be format-specific. The following two statements are a fact: most English players struggle against quality spin bowling; most Indian players struggle against quality pace bowling. And both of these are true regardless of the format. In fact, the shorter the format, the easier it is for a team to hide their weaknesses. Also, if you has a good collection of T20i matches to draw stats from, it's easier to keep the discussion limited to those stats. But a one-off match here and there is not enough to conclude anything.

  • FreddyForPrimeMinister on September 25, 2012, 12:01 GMT

    For those people criticizing Kieswetter for being ridiculously over-positive about England's ability against spin, please try and use your brains a little. What do you expect him to say? "That was awful but frankly all our batsmen struggle against spin so hopefully the other teams will only select pace bowlers when playing us." Get real folks - there isn't a player in the world who'd do anything other than back his own team mates. I don't recall Dravid telling the press on India's tour of England how terrified the rest of his batting line-up were when faced by hostile fast bowling on pitches with bounce and conditions favouring swing bowling. Everybody knows English batsmen struggle against quality spin on the subcontinent - but in a T20 match it only takes one person to come good, so don't write off ANY team just yet!

  • always_SA on September 25, 2012, 11:47 GMT

    @JG2704 , yes i see the one of T20 match that India played with half strength and interest not wanting to kill a dead snake. It doesn't really count. If anything it is a fluke, a lucky win for England. They can't use that to say that they can beat India all the time. @Raj R Ganesan, I am not talking about series victories. Line up the stats of all visiting teams to India and you would see that SA is easily at the top. Even compared to Australia. We are the #1 in tests and we were #1 in all 3 formats not long back. We've got world class players for all conditions. The cup is ours. I think it would pan out like SA, Aus, Ind, Pak for Semis. SA vs one of the 3 teams for finals with SA winning the cup :).

  • ishandeoctopus on September 25, 2012, 11:42 GMT

    I cant wait for the English to come to India for the TESt series ODI and t20 i am confident we will return the drubbing we got there and the talk of who is number 1 will go out the window, no one can win outside of their home, except SA but we all know how they fare in major tournaments.

  • Nutcutlet on September 25, 2012, 11:40 GMT

    England's primary problem isn't with spin, it's with slow bowling. Most of the balls that get England batsmen out are straight or deviate a very small amount off the pitch. It's through the air that the panic seems to set in. Most of the time England's batsmen fail to time their strokes; they're either too early or too late, which suggests that many of the fatal shots are premeditated, or played by numbers. And, strewth, do they look ugly! I hope to see a better performance when Narine comes on: heads down, straight bats, use of feet, wrists employed. Playing spin, as Noman Khizar has noted, is matter of intelligence, not necessarily a test of power hitting, unless the poor ball presents itself. I'd be happy to see Narine's return be something like 1 for20 rather than 4 for 30. Now, let's see if all those (looped?) throw-downs have changed anything!

  • TheBengalTiger on September 25, 2012, 11:18 GMT

    I think the thing with England is, they didn't even give themselves a chance to be successful because of their shot selection. Even bad players of spin shouldn't be playing like that. They just have a mental block against spin, which they need to work on

  • ASHOK1253 on September 25, 2012, 11:12 GMT

    May be after seeing the match, i think England batsmen played too many false shots. It is very clear that they are lagging in playing the spin bowlers. It's absolutely nothing in the pitch, it's just selecting the wrong shots....And i think without Kevin Petersen the England team never win, because he is too good batsmen....After this world cup They need to play the Indians, so if they played like this they need to suffer the 4-0 defeat as it for India in the England. May be they need to take KP, BELL in the team because they are the best spin batsmen in the England team @always SA? Yeah...South Africa are the no.1 team but they don't win the Series in India, but may be in SA i will agree. Need see the Super 8 matches, they will be very interesting AUS,IND,SA,PAK in the same group...absolutely dangerous group nobody will guess who will goto the semifinals..4 teams have a fair chance. but in group1....SL,WI will goto the semi finals..Guessing IND,SA will goto semis. IND VS SL final

  • on September 25, 2012, 10:51 GMT

    @always_SA , i think you have treated this tournament as easy as a bilateral series where South Africa have been exceptionally good over the last 5-6 years.Buddy this is a world cup , a world tournament which is nothing but Achilles heel of South African cricket .Never count the chickens before they hatch .Adios

  • Damo_s on September 25, 2012, 10:50 GMT

    Cant really see us (England) getting past the super 8s. Narine will be looking to get his revenge for being ineffective in England. Chris Gayle is always a nightmare for us anyway. Mendis doesnt really turn the ball but is very effective against weaker players of spin (us) plus SL have home advantage. I think we have a good chance of beating new Zealand but struggle to see where the other result will come from.

  • on September 25, 2012, 10:48 GMT

    i just wanted to say that england batsman dont use their brain against spinners they play awful cricket when spinners are on just one thing they should do is to play the spinners with some confidence play the ball late as possible it will give the English batsman idea that how much the bowl is turning and try to use feet against the spinners to up set the rythem of he spinners.

  • on September 25, 2012, 10:47 GMT

    england will win world cup !!!!! go go england !!! come on !!! we are th best

  • adnanalee on September 25, 2012, 10:42 GMT

    I will only say that the tournament has not yet started, it will be started from Super Eights.. England is still one of the favorites for this tournament..

  • Rulaniya on September 25, 2012, 10:06 GMT

    Come on guys! That was colmbo and pallkele will provide home conditions for england, fast and good bounce, now i can bet that england will play in semie- final at least. What you say friends?

  • JG2704 on September 25, 2012, 8:33 GMT

    CTD - I think we were doomed when our gamble of having only one spin option backfired. I never thought we would chase 170 down against an attack which mainly consisted of spin and the only chance we had would have been to get significantly ahead of the game when the pacers were on but I reckon had we done that - unlike Broad - Dhoni would have brought one or 2 of the spinners on early. The one good thing is that this result counts for nothing apart from in confidence or momentum. Another thing - and I might be wrong here - but I also get the feeling that we are generally better at defending totals than setting them and I would have more confidence in defending a smaller total than chasing a larger total.

  • JG2704 on September 25, 2012, 8:33 GMT

    I'd say no player is going to admit they have a weakness against a particular style of bowling. I think one of England's major problems is their lack of adaptability. 1- Finn had a bad 1st over where he went for a number of runs and did not look at all threatening so why have him bowl a 2nd over straight after? 2 - The short pitch stuff worked well vs Afghan but that was on a pacier pitch vs more vulnerable batsmen. Why persist with it when it's not working? 3- Why have just the 1 spinning option here?- we still have Wright who can bowl a bit of medium/fast. Swann was miles ahead of anyone else and I know Swann is particularly good in this format but I'd back Briggs ahead of all our pacers to keep it tight. I'd even say that having both Briggs and Patel in the side - maybe in place of Bres and Finn might be our best option

  • JG2704 on September 25, 2012, 8:33 GMT

    @always_SA on (September 25 2012, 04:42 AM GMT) There was a one off T20 match after the 5-0 whitewash. Look up the result and it will show you

  • on September 25, 2012, 8:21 GMT

    @always SA? Are you sure that it was SA who had beaten india in india. Get your facts right mate. SA have won only a test series in 2000 but after that they have not won a single series in india. The tests in 2008 and 2010 were squared and they are yet to win a ODI series in India.The only team that had won a ODI series in india over the last five odd years was ? Any answer. Mate only Australia had managed to win an ODI series against India in India over the last 5 years.SA are the Ivan Lendl of wimbeldon in world tournaments,extemely good but always fail to deliver when it matters the most. I won't be surprised should this happen again in this tournament.cheers mate

  • correctcall on September 25, 2012, 7:58 GMT

    Of the four strips at Colombo is there a Srini special that is drier than the rest? What did Woolfe say about undue influence ?

  • Hira1 on September 25, 2012, 7:26 GMT

    Format of this world cup is designed in a way to suit England, they still have a very high chance of qualifying to the semi final even after this horrific performance.........Eng are in a relatively easier group and have to tackle only srilankan spinner and even they loose the other two teams are very weak. Best part is all their group matches are in Pallakele where wickets are relatively less spin friendly, if the matches were in colombo surely they had no chance.

  • sam_screaming on September 25, 2012, 7:25 GMT

    @Bilal: Do you even know how the groupings have been done for super 8. England wud have remained in their current group irrespective of a win or loss against india. Even though india have won but it has made no changes to the grouping of qualifying teams. Get your knowledge correct.

  • krishroxx on September 25, 2012, 6:39 GMT

    haha.. u r not gonna go past the super eights.. the pitches have dried up.. and are getting slower as the tournament is progressing.. do not take the initial assistance of seam and swing to play a major part now.. now u will see guys like ajmal, narine, ashwin, mendis giving the batsmen a hard time...

  • on September 25, 2012, 6:27 GMT

    its a day of India. spinners did really well bcos pitch had much turn. yearly in the innings swan had bowled beautifully 1-17 (4). So spinners use the pitch very well

  • 158notout on September 25, 2012, 6:10 GMT

    Just to help those who seem to think Kieswetter was lying or mistaken, also to help those who yet again seem incapable of distinguishing the difference between formats of cricket (the 5-0 ODI loss in India not relevant, nor the whitewasha cross all formats that India received in England last time around), here is the list of England away T20i wins - you can see the last four have been away to subcontinent teams

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/1.html?class=3;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=results

    Really, is it so difficult to ignore the other forms and just talk about the relevant one?

  • Mollakhel on September 25, 2012, 5:44 GMT

    Dear England Cricket Team it is very Sad that you all played very bad against India but don't worry it will get better after having practices

  • kitten on September 25, 2012, 5:34 GMT

    I think Keiswetter, as far as India is concerned, when England last toured India for the ODI`s and a one off T20, even though England lost the ODI`s 5-0, they won the T20 game (correct me if I am wrong). As far as Pakistan and SL are concerned, I am afraid I do not know the facts.

  • xylo on September 25, 2012, 5:32 GMT

    I had thought that England would see off India, but would face tougher challenges against Sri Lanka, South Africa, West Indies, and Pakistan (if their batting clicks). But given the last match, I believe I have to scale down my expectations quite a bit.

  • on September 25, 2012, 5:19 GMT

    Oh hello, that loss against India has done no harm to England, infact it has done them the goods, now they are in lesser competetive group for super eights and will play on more pacer-friendly pitches. That loss is history for them now that has done them a lot of favours for this tournament.

  • phoenixsteve on September 25, 2012, 4:56 GMT

    England's pathetic display in the last game is (hopefully) a freak result? Fortunately it hasn't done any real damage - other than that of damage to confidence? Maybe it has even done them a huge favour for now and for the upcoming test series against India? They have put their weakness on show (for all to see) and with Mushtaq as the coach SURELY they can work out a strategy against spin? T20 is over before you know it and an improvement by England against spin will certainly be needed. Fortunately their remaning games are against NZ, SL and WI so they've got the easier route? I wouldn't want to see them in the SA, Pak, Australia and India group? It's not over yet and there's plenty of time for England to rise...... COME ON ENGLAND!!!

  • MattyP1979 on September 25, 2012, 4:48 GMT

    Lots of people writing Eng off already. This was not a meaningless game after all. After losing to Ind we go into the easier group. Good to see forward thinking from the England camp. Seriously get real guys its hit and hope anything can happen.

  • always_SA on September 25, 2012, 4:42 GMT

    What is this guy talking about? "We've played spin well; we've beaten Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan in the sub-continent before. It was just a bad performance." When did they beat India in the sub-continent? No memory of that. Remember a 5-0 whitewash in favor of India when they last toured. Are they talking about the early 1980 team that they managed to beat with David Gower? So funny. The only team that has beaten India in India is South Africa. Go SA, the cup is yours.

  • landl47 on September 25, 2012, 4:13 GMT

    If a team is going to have a meltdown, then I guess the best time to do it is in a match that is meaningless as far as the result is concerned. However, the downside of having a team as young and inexperienced as England's is that performances aren't as easily shrugged off.

  • on September 25, 2012, 4:05 GMT

    What about India, They looked Fabulous against England.

  • pitch_curator on September 25, 2012, 3:53 GMT

    "The ball's a bit more unpredictable here - it either spins or it doesn't - it's not as predictable as in England." I think he should have replaced the ball with "the bowler". The bowlers spin it big or bowl the straighter one/doosra. In England the bowlers dont spin the ball. lol.

  • sramesh_74 on September 25, 2012, 3:51 GMT

    WI, SL, AUS and SA are front-runners for the last 4. India will have a tough time and will need to play out of their skins to make it to the semis. Bowling is still an issue...forget the England game..i would not read too much into it. Eng have always been suspect against spin.

  • on September 25, 2012, 3:25 GMT

    Seriously just try and score a single every ball and hit the bad ones to the boundary! If the batmen continue their "tactic" of playing 5 dot balls and then closing your eyes and swinging at the last ball they are doomed.

  • Sunman81 on September 25, 2012, 3:11 GMT

    Not Just Narine... Windies have Gayle and Samuels too... Andy and Co have lot to think about during the Super8... Windies and SL are defly the fav in this group...

  • Buggsy on September 25, 2012, 2:48 GMT

    Well this is T20 so anything can happen. I wouldn't write England off just yet, they'll be back.

  • gummadv on September 25, 2012, 2:33 GMT

    No one can master spin in a matter of days. ENG miss KP Ian bell big time thanks to happy dressing room.

  • Rulaniya on September 25, 2012, 1:56 GMT

    England will play in semi final

  • ammar7may on September 25, 2012, 1:07 GMT

    English can play spin, but cannot survive it. In T20, you need to play as well as survive for 20 overs.

  • on September 25, 2012, 0:49 GMT

    There's no way England is going to repeat their 2010 peformance without the KP. Period.

  • binojpeter on September 25, 2012, 0:14 GMT

    I am an Indian fan. But let us not be harsh on England here. Agreed that their batsmen played some poor shots. But pitch was dry and favored spin more than other matches. I think that match is still open for all 8 teams.

  • m1991vicky on September 25, 2012, 0:03 GMT

    What on earth is Keiswetter thinking????? When did England play spin well and when did they win against India and Pakistan in the sub-continent????? Certainly not in his time or mine........ Not in the past 25years or so....... Is he this very ignorant????

  • Meety on September 25, 2012, 0:01 GMT

    @Vikum72 on (September 24 2012, 23:52 PM GMT - I wouldn't be betting against England.

  • Vikum72 on September 24, 2012, 23:52 GMT

    The most likely teams to make it in to the semi finals from this group are WI and SL. The success SL have enjoyed against Eng, WI & NZ in the past in their home conditions would mean that they are likely to lead the group. Based on the composition of the team and most recent performances WI the next best bet. England most probably will finish at the bottom of their group, I fear.

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  • Vikum72 on September 24, 2012, 23:52 GMT

    The most likely teams to make it in to the semi finals from this group are WI and SL. The success SL have enjoyed against Eng, WI & NZ in the past in their home conditions would mean that they are likely to lead the group. Based on the composition of the team and most recent performances WI the next best bet. England most probably will finish at the bottom of their group, I fear.

  • Meety on September 25, 2012, 0:01 GMT

    @Vikum72 on (September 24 2012, 23:52 PM GMT - I wouldn't be betting against England.

  • m1991vicky on September 25, 2012, 0:03 GMT

    What on earth is Keiswetter thinking????? When did England play spin well and when did they win against India and Pakistan in the sub-continent????? Certainly not in his time or mine........ Not in the past 25years or so....... Is he this very ignorant????

  • binojpeter on September 25, 2012, 0:14 GMT

    I am an Indian fan. But let us not be harsh on England here. Agreed that their batsmen played some poor shots. But pitch was dry and favored spin more than other matches. I think that match is still open for all 8 teams.

  • on September 25, 2012, 0:49 GMT

    There's no way England is going to repeat their 2010 peformance without the KP. Period.

  • ammar7may on September 25, 2012, 1:07 GMT

    English can play spin, but cannot survive it. In T20, you need to play as well as survive for 20 overs.

  • Rulaniya on September 25, 2012, 1:56 GMT

    England will play in semi final

  • gummadv on September 25, 2012, 2:33 GMT

    No one can master spin in a matter of days. ENG miss KP Ian bell big time thanks to happy dressing room.

  • Buggsy on September 25, 2012, 2:48 GMT

    Well this is T20 so anything can happen. I wouldn't write England off just yet, they'll be back.

  • Sunman81 on September 25, 2012, 3:11 GMT

    Not Just Narine... Windies have Gayle and Samuels too... Andy and Co have lot to think about during the Super8... Windies and SL are defly the fav in this group...