Trivia - batting August 7, 2008

The new unbowlable

Although he is not the most dynamic batsman going around, Shivnarine Chanderpaul has been carving himself a most unusual statistical place in recent years
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Although he is not the most dynamic batsman going around, Shivnarine Chanderpaul has been carving himself a most unusual statistical place in recent years. His career has been studded with extraordinary spells where he becomes near-impossible to dismiss. Since overcoming a foot problem and undergoing surgery in 2000, he has made a habit of stringing unbeaten innings together, so much so that he has batted for more than 1000 minutes between dismissals on four separate occasions, twice in the past year. His last four Test innings, in the series against Australia, spanned 1115 minutes before until at last he fell lbw to Stuart Clark.

For comparison, consider that only five other batsmen have ever gone unbeaten for over 1000 minutes, none of them more than once.

Longest batting between dismissals
Player Minutes Balls Runs Scores
S Chanderpaul (2001/02) 1513 1051 362 67*, 101*, 136*, 58
JH Kallis (2001/02) 1241 908 456 157*, 42*, 189*, 68
SR Tendulkar (2003/04) 1224 879 497 241*, 60*, 194*, 2
R Dravid (2000/01) 1145 791 473 41*, 200*, 70*, 162
S Chanderpaul (2007/08) 1115 689 313 107*, 77*, 79*, 50
S Chanderpaul (2007) 1074 677 322 116*, 136*, 70
S Chanderpaul (2004) 1031 698 371 101*, 128*, 97*, 45
N Hussain (1999/2000) 1023 744 231 70*, 146*, 15
Shoaib Mohammad (1990/91) 1007 634 308 203*, 105

These are all relatively recent events, thanks partly to the fact that over-rates are much slower than in olden days. But if we turn to balls faced, Chanderpaul still leads. He is the only batsman to ever face 1000 balls without getting out.

Most balls faced between dismissals
Player Balls Minutes Runs Scores
S Chanderpaul (2001/02) 1051 1513 362 67*, 101*, 136*, 58
WR Hammond (1928/29) 980 703 296 119*, 177
Hanif Mohammad* (1957/58) 930 973 337 337
JH Kallis (2001/02) 908 1241 456 157*, 42*, 189*, 68
SR Tendulkar (2003/04) 879 1224 497 241*, 60*, 194*, 2
L Hutton (1938) 847 797 364 364
GS Sobers (1957/58) 800 876 490 365*, 125
R Dravid (2000/01) 791 1145 473 41*, 200*, 70*, 162
KF Barrington (1964/65) 780 913 323 54*, 148*, 121
*Balls faced for Hanif is an estimate.

A striking feature is Chanderpaul’s highest score in these purple patches is only 136 not out. It is a sign of the general weakness of his team’s batting, as well as his defensive nature, that he so often is left unbeaten without making huge scores. It could certainly be argued West Indies are losing out on potential runs because of this; perhaps he should bat higher in the order.

Curiously, the 362 runs he scored in that 1000-ball sequence is not even in the Top 20 for most runs between dismissals, which is led by Tendulkar (497) and Sobers (490) in the tables above. Chanderpaul is in the Top 20 thanks to his 371 runs in 2004/05, but well down the list.

One reason for his success is that Chanderpaul has become the nearest thing to an unbowlable batsman seen in Test cricket. This has developed in recent years as his technique has changed. Even though he has been out bowled in 11% of his dismissals, not an especially low figure, many of these dismissals came earlier in his career. From 2004 to 2007, Chanderpaul played a sequence of 57 innings without being out bowled. He scored 2629 runs, faced 5693 balls, and batted over 138 hours without anyone hitting his wicket! Javed Miandad (2055) is the only other batsman to score over 2000 runs without being bowled, although Kumar Sangakkara is now right in the hunt for this record, having scored 1983 runs since he last heard the death rattle. Adam Parore of New Zealand batted 77 times before he was out bowled for the first time in a Test match, scoring 1937 runs.

One other curiosity: Chanderpaul is known for his caution, yet has made one of the fastest Test centuries of all time. His normal scoring rate is just over 43 runs/100 balls: among current batsmen, only Rahul Dravid has scored more runs at a slower rate. Yet Chanderpaul has to his credit the fastest century ever scored against Australia, and the fourth-fastest in all Tests, 69 balls in Georgetown (his home ground) in 2003. Has anyone ever batted quite so “out of character”? Perhaps not. The next fastest century by Chanderpaul, 140 balls (in the same series) is less than half as fast as his best, and the average of his other centuries is 212 balls. No other major batsman has a fastest century so unlike all his others.

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Chirag on August 15, 2008, 22:29 GMT

    rember chanderpaul averaged 45 after ten years, and its only in these last few years his average has improved but statiscs dont tell that much about consistency, ie look at sehwag his average is 50+ only given the fact his centuries are very big and is not a consitant performer,

  • Mohamed Rahaman on August 15, 2008, 20:56 GMT

    Shiv plays with the card he is dealt. If anyone deserves to be selfish once in a while, it's Shiv. They shuffeled him in as opener, 1st down, 2nd down etc. Since teh India series in teh WI several yeras ago, when he scored several centuries and was left Not out several times, I have been saying that Shiv should bat at least 1 place earlier in the batting order. To me Shiv has surpassed the great Lloyd and Kanhai as Guyana's best. Sadly however, race is still a problem in WI cricket, especially amongst some of Shiv peers and it is my humble opinion, that they will never give Shiv his full due. Amongst most of the fans of all races and religions, however, he is seen as the Rock and he continues to win converts. I think the author or any writer would be wise to compare Shiv's determination and courage to the situation under which he grew up in Guyana...hard times indeed and one does whatever it takes to survive. We are proud of our Shiv. He bats like no one else can.

  • Abiose on August 15, 2008, 19:01 GMT

    Chanders is a really good player, i played with him in his under 16 and 19 days for GCC. I was at the other end when he scored his first century for GCC UNDER-16 team. What i remember most about our parthnership was that i could hardly get any strike and yet we added 100plus. He was excellent at farming the strike. There is some value in farming the strike....... See Sir Viv 189 not out. I believe he should do that more with the tail, at the end of the day is the spectator's entertainment that matters, not records.

  • lil R on August 12, 2008, 4:46 GMT

    Shiv is the most dedicated cricketer in world.The man just love cricket and he keep making runs,earlier on in his career he used to do a better job keeping the strike with the tail.But i think he is fed up with a tail that never produce. To know Richie Richardson try his best to keep shiv out of the Side and he is still there tells you about his determination. Its a shame someone like Richie is considered a legend and not shiv...Its a joke I tell you.

  • Marcus on August 11, 2008, 5:33 GMT

    Markc

    Chanderpaul averages 48.4 against Australia- on par with everyone else on your list.

  • markc on August 11, 2008, 0:39 GMT

    Lets not get carried away, Shiva might be a hard bloke to dismiss and carry around a high average due to many not outs but for people to say he ranks behind sachin and lara is stupidity. I think you will find blokes like Kallis and Shewag, Dravid, Vaughan, Pietersen, Yousuf and Sangakkara have much better records against Australia then him then you can add Ponting and Hayden and you have an easy 8 players of this time that are better than him. He may be great for Wind cricket and he does give them that rock in there batting order but does he destroy bowling attacks on a regular basis or does he 9 times out of 10 play for Chanders and not the Windies.

    [Response: the original post is not about Chanderpaul's ranking but about some unusual aspects of his career. Please no more general comments on whether he is a better or worse player than x or y.]

  • sanjay on August 10, 2008, 20:00 GMT

    test cricket is a game of attrition..where the real batsmen are truly tested..chanderpaul is one such player..he may not be the flambouyant entertainer as lara but he is the most solid an consitent batsman in cricket rite now who can adapt to any situation whose skill is only surpassed by his humility..an for those lara haters..d man is d greatest

  • salim on August 10, 2008, 14:25 GMT

    @ : rajesh ....i didnt suggest that Tendulkar was inconsistent, my comment was more aimed at 'Steven' talking a loud of nonsense. Lara and Tendulkar have been very consistent over the years. However i wonder if Tendulkar has ever had such a poor series i.e. 95 runs in 6 innings? Can anyone confirm this?

  • American on August 10, 2008, 13:53 GMT

    Shiv has been a loyal servant of WI cricket for a long time now. If WI had 2 Shiv's, then Lara's records would have been double.

    For those of you who stupidly calls Shiv, selfish, then you really don't understand cricket. Batting with WI lower order is arguably the most frustrating job in cricket.

    If Lara was in a team with batters like Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag, then he would have scored 100 test centuries.

    It begs the question, was hasn't Tendulkar scored more runs and centuries.

    Shiv and Lara had and has the burden of carrying the batting all by themselves, and to succeed to the extent they have,means they were and are great.

    In contrast, Tendulkar never faced a critical media, never faced a cricis everytime he came out to bat, like Shiv and Lara before him, had those pan cake subcontinental pitches to bat on, yet he cannot break the record- that he and India is praying for-

    Sachin is selfish, Lara and Shiv were and not.

  • American on August 10, 2008, 13:52 GMT

    Shiv has been a loyal servant of WI cricket for a long time now. If WI had 2 Shiv's, then Lara's records would have been double.

    For those of you who stupidly calls Shiv, selfish, then you really don't understand cricket. Batting with WI lower order is arguably the most frustrating job in cricket.

    If Lara was in a team with batters like Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag, then he would have scored 100 test centuries.

    It begs the question, was hasn't Tendulkar scored more runs and centuries.

    Shiv and Lara had and has the burden of carrying the batting all by themselves, and to succeed to the extent they have,means they were and are great.

    In contrast, Tendulkar never faced a critical media, never faced a cricis everytime he came out to bat, like Shiv and Lara before him, had those pan cake subcontinental pitches to bat on, yet he cannot break the record- that he and India is praying for-

    Sachin is selfish, Lara and Shiv were and not.

  • Chirag on August 15, 2008, 22:29 GMT

    rember chanderpaul averaged 45 after ten years, and its only in these last few years his average has improved but statiscs dont tell that much about consistency, ie look at sehwag his average is 50+ only given the fact his centuries are very big and is not a consitant performer,

  • Mohamed Rahaman on August 15, 2008, 20:56 GMT

    Shiv plays with the card he is dealt. If anyone deserves to be selfish once in a while, it's Shiv. They shuffeled him in as opener, 1st down, 2nd down etc. Since teh India series in teh WI several yeras ago, when he scored several centuries and was left Not out several times, I have been saying that Shiv should bat at least 1 place earlier in the batting order. To me Shiv has surpassed the great Lloyd and Kanhai as Guyana's best. Sadly however, race is still a problem in WI cricket, especially amongst some of Shiv peers and it is my humble opinion, that they will never give Shiv his full due. Amongst most of the fans of all races and religions, however, he is seen as the Rock and he continues to win converts. I think the author or any writer would be wise to compare Shiv's determination and courage to the situation under which he grew up in Guyana...hard times indeed and one does whatever it takes to survive. We are proud of our Shiv. He bats like no one else can.

  • Abiose on August 15, 2008, 19:01 GMT

    Chanders is a really good player, i played with him in his under 16 and 19 days for GCC. I was at the other end when he scored his first century for GCC UNDER-16 team. What i remember most about our parthnership was that i could hardly get any strike and yet we added 100plus. He was excellent at farming the strike. There is some value in farming the strike....... See Sir Viv 189 not out. I believe he should do that more with the tail, at the end of the day is the spectator's entertainment that matters, not records.

  • lil R on August 12, 2008, 4:46 GMT

    Shiv is the most dedicated cricketer in world.The man just love cricket and he keep making runs,earlier on in his career he used to do a better job keeping the strike with the tail.But i think he is fed up with a tail that never produce. To know Richie Richardson try his best to keep shiv out of the Side and he is still there tells you about his determination. Its a shame someone like Richie is considered a legend and not shiv...Its a joke I tell you.

  • Marcus on August 11, 2008, 5:33 GMT

    Markc

    Chanderpaul averages 48.4 against Australia- on par with everyone else on your list.

  • markc on August 11, 2008, 0:39 GMT

    Lets not get carried away, Shiva might be a hard bloke to dismiss and carry around a high average due to many not outs but for people to say he ranks behind sachin and lara is stupidity. I think you will find blokes like Kallis and Shewag, Dravid, Vaughan, Pietersen, Yousuf and Sangakkara have much better records against Australia then him then you can add Ponting and Hayden and you have an easy 8 players of this time that are better than him. He may be great for Wind cricket and he does give them that rock in there batting order but does he destroy bowling attacks on a regular basis or does he 9 times out of 10 play for Chanders and not the Windies.

    [Response: the original post is not about Chanderpaul's ranking but about some unusual aspects of his career. Please no more general comments on whether he is a better or worse player than x or y.]

  • sanjay on August 10, 2008, 20:00 GMT

    test cricket is a game of attrition..where the real batsmen are truly tested..chanderpaul is one such player..he may not be the flambouyant entertainer as lara but he is the most solid an consitent batsman in cricket rite now who can adapt to any situation whose skill is only surpassed by his humility..an for those lara haters..d man is d greatest

  • salim on August 10, 2008, 14:25 GMT

    @ : rajesh ....i didnt suggest that Tendulkar was inconsistent, my comment was more aimed at 'Steven' talking a loud of nonsense. Lara and Tendulkar have been very consistent over the years. However i wonder if Tendulkar has ever had such a poor series i.e. 95 runs in 6 innings? Can anyone confirm this?

  • American on August 10, 2008, 13:53 GMT

    Shiv has been a loyal servant of WI cricket for a long time now. If WI had 2 Shiv's, then Lara's records would have been double.

    For those of you who stupidly calls Shiv, selfish, then you really don't understand cricket. Batting with WI lower order is arguably the most frustrating job in cricket.

    If Lara was in a team with batters like Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag, then he would have scored 100 test centuries.

    It begs the question, was hasn't Tendulkar scored more runs and centuries.

    Shiv and Lara had and has the burden of carrying the batting all by themselves, and to succeed to the extent they have,means they were and are great.

    In contrast, Tendulkar never faced a critical media, never faced a cricis everytime he came out to bat, like Shiv and Lara before him, had those pan cake subcontinental pitches to bat on, yet he cannot break the record- that he and India is praying for-

    Sachin is selfish, Lara and Shiv were and not.

  • American on August 10, 2008, 13:52 GMT

    Shiv has been a loyal servant of WI cricket for a long time now. If WI had 2 Shiv's, then Lara's records would have been double.

    For those of you who stupidly calls Shiv, selfish, then you really don't understand cricket. Batting with WI lower order is arguably the most frustrating job in cricket.

    If Lara was in a team with batters like Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag, then he would have scored 100 test centuries.

    It begs the question, was hasn't Tendulkar scored more runs and centuries.

    Shiv and Lara had and has the burden of carrying the batting all by themselves, and to succeed to the extent they have,means they were and are great.

    In contrast, Tendulkar never faced a critical media, never faced a cricis everytime he came out to bat, like Shiv and Lara before him, had those pan cake subcontinental pitches to bat on, yet he cannot break the record- that he and India is praying for-

    Sachin is selfish, Lara and Shiv were and not.

  • Sanku on August 10, 2008, 13:49 GMT

    just to add some thing about protecting the tail!. just how do you plan to do that by playing out 5 balls of an over and take a single off the last... man if you have been watching the west indies team for a while you know ow good these tailenders are .. they way they bat.. i think it was in england with chanders on 90 odd and three tai enders got out.. you can understand the good balls , but howbout going for heaves and grtting caught at mid-on. any man can think enoughs enough now let me get my runs.

    At least he turns out for every other inings and gives the best that he can. and take a look at the cards thats all windies have got left. i ived my life lookin upto windies cricket , hes all thats left to keep me comin back to the tv whe theres a game on.

    he may not be a giant! but he's what he's and theres no denying him.

    All i can compare im is to Tennyson's Ullysses.

  • kenny hassan on August 10, 2008, 12:53 GMT

    Instead of critizing Shiv. the real focus should be on finding another batsman like him. That would be awesome for the West Indies. He is an amazing batsman;I have seen him on numerous occasions literally tore the opposing attack apart.His track record speaks volumes; so,please STOP looking at the negative and focus on the positives.

  • jucock on August 10, 2008, 5:24 GMT

    I,ve been watchin cricket 4 over 20 years .I have seen a lot of dominating batsmen but never one as concistence as shiv , he value his wicket the team should build themself a round him ,not him fanning the balling.shiv cant be blame 4 the tam failure ,imagine if one or two ither players batted like him where would the westindies cricket team be.for to long we have been losing matches while batting last and most times its mediocre scores ,so come on all you shiv haters get on the the back of the other players .Where is the supporting cast ?Guess a million light years away.Carry Shiv you are the tiger ,a true champion .The muhhamed Ali The pele ,the micheal Jordan ,Tiger Woods ,jessieOwens of the west Ingies all roll up in one .Until some one else step up thats who you are ,thats what you are and that who and what you will be known in history .When the day is done Shiv ,arise u deserve a knighthoood ,arise sir shiv ,cricketing great.Mr .consistency.

  • jucock on August 10, 2008, 5:24 GMT

    I,ve been watchin cricket 4 over 20 years .I have seen a lot of dominating batsmen but never one as concistence as shiv , he value his wicket the team should build themself a round him ,not him fanning the balling.shiv cant be blame 4 the tam failure ,imagine if one or two ither players batted like him where would the westindies cricket team be.for to long we have been losing matches while batting last and most times its mediocre scores ,so come on all you shiv haters get on the the back of the other players .Where is the supporting cast ?Guess a million light years away.Carry Shiv you are the tiger ,a true champion .The muhhamed Ali The pele ,the micheal Jordan ,Tiger Woods ,jessieOwens of the west Ingies all roll up in one .Until some one else step up thats who you are ,thats what you are and that who and what you will be known in history .When the day is done Shiv ,arise u deserve a knighthoood ,arise sir shiv ,cricketing great.Mr .consistency.

  • Naz on August 10, 2008, 4:49 GMT

    WICB's perception of Richards, Haynes, Lara, etc. indicates that anyone is dispensible. Therefore so is Chanderpaul. For those of you who feel that the batsman is selfish, then simply replace him with a selfless batsman found in the West Indies.

    In defence to his concentrated guard of his wicket, he is unselfish because he allows WI bowlers to rest longer between innings. Which other batsmen on that team can make such contribution? I have a recommendation, if you want batsmen to stay long at the crease, then the board should pay them a bonus based on the number of balls faced. A generous bonus.

  • kepu on August 10, 2008, 4:05 GMT

    Sangakkra is the best ....

  • Josh on August 10, 2008, 3:44 GMT

    Please, let's get our minds out of the 20/20 mindset. Scoring rates are not important in tests with a few exceptions-if a team have a short time to reach a fourth innings target or are trying to score quickly and declare. 100 from 100 balls is no better than 100 from 250 in most situations.

  • Deosaran Bisnath on August 10, 2008, 2:13 GMT

    With this WI team, Shiv is almost always in a lose-lose situation. He sets an example for the higher order batsmen but most of them are insecure prima donnas who showboat with little patience to build an innings. Shiv gave up shepherding tailenders because they hit out after defending for a ball or two. A few years ago, Shiv would farm the strike and keep the tailenders out of strike, except for the last ball or two. What happens next? Mr. Stupid Tailender takes an almighty swing... Shiv has tried many times but these guys, with few exceptions, don't carel they don't paying attention to the game. What's the point in Shiv protecting them and then they give it away. Even now, Shiv still tries but you would not belive the reckless WI batting.

    I watched cricket for decades - this team for the past decade has been the most immature and undisciplined team in world cricket. Even Lara couldn't save them, Shiv can't. WI cricket administrators are bumbling fools. Start here, don't blame Shiv

  • Preedeep on August 10, 2008, 2:09 GMT

    From my perspective what Dravid is to sachin was chanderpaul to Lara. Its always going to be an argument to pick the best between sachin and lara. Leaving those greats, I believe Dravid, chander ,kallis ,ponting ,inzi ,sanga are equally great contributors and genius in their own right. For me Dravid is touch above than those players because of his commitment to the team and his humbleness despite being a name which has been reckoned with sachin. That doesn’t mean he is less fabulous in his cricketing skills. Yes coming to chander I admire him, it’s not an easy task to shepherd the west Indian team of last 2 decades. Chander is one of the few players in the world who is capable of playing both spin and pace at equivalent easy. Let us enjoy and feel happy that we are blessed to see these wonderful guys performing like everyday’s sunrise. Hats off to chanderpaul who keeps the world to follow the west Indian cricket. Thanks.

  • Amandeep Singh on August 9, 2008, 21:54 GMT

    I believe Chanderpaul is next only to Sachin & Lara in this generation of batsmen and is better than both Ponting & Dravid. I have never seen Dravid dominating high quality bowling(The Mcgraths, Warnes et al) like Chanderpaul can on his day. And unlike Ponting, Chanderpaul is equally adept at playing fast and spin bowling. Moreover He is much more than a flat track bully & murderer of mediocre bowling attacks. Good to see some recognition for 1 of the 2 most underrated batsmen of this era(The other is but of course Very Very Special Laxman).

  • Geoff Bethell on August 9, 2008, 20:56 GMT

    Who from the current world players would you choose to bat for your life? Well there's this little guy from Guyana who was mucked about during the early stages of his career. Latterly, with experience, he has worked out a method of batting which suits him and suits the game called test cricket. Nobody can get him out. The opposition (and supporters) groan when he walks to the wicket because they know the real battle has commenced. As for protecting the tail? Well sometimes the best way to do that is to set an example at the other end. This is what we're going to do - follow me.

  • rajesh on August 9, 2008, 20:06 GMT

    i know that shiv can score faster but he needs 2 bat higher in the order 3 r 4 n needs some 1 2 bat with him preferably 3 or more of his team mates

  • CHA on August 9, 2008, 19:27 GMT

    HI... L4zybugg3r mentioned a commentator's name so thought ill add to it... bn following the INDO-SL series. I must say Arun Lal, Ian Bishop and Waqar Yunis are absolutely fantastic.. Waqar cald e Galle match to e tee.. he was the 1st to say that chasing 200 wil be next to impossible (at e start of e 2nd day) and fast Indian fast bowlers will get wkts in e 4th innings (end of the 3rd innings).... given the pitch was a near dust bowl twas surprising but nonetheless proved to be correct.. Ian Chappell is considered by many to be the best around but im curious to know if commentators have some sorta rating system o if any commentator-related blogs ve bn posted

  • lakshya on August 9, 2008, 17:20 GMT

    To sali,: Sachin is cosistent and it is just he gets out in 90s a lot. Gosh please. He has been in terrific form bar sri lanka, and chanderpaul is undoubtably the most consistent batsmen in windies at moment. Pity rest of windies cant match him!

  • Admirer on August 9, 2008, 16:00 GMT

    Shiv Chanderpaul is a great batsman in his own right,he has scored runs against every team in the world. He needs to scored hundeds in Australia,NewZealand and Sri Lanka to complete the cycle. I see the guy play he always plays for the team.When WI was in England 2003-2004 when Siv was batting at Lords and was on 97not out, when Tino Best made a wild swing and got out,left the man on the 97 not out.He was left not on many occassions due to the reckless batting of the others. I think if Sarwan plays his cricket right, he can help Shiv with alot I think he needs to bat at four and not Five. I think the selectors needs to start looking at Narsingh Deonarine to bat below Shiv who will complement because they both play for Guyana. I think they have tried enough of Morton and Ganga, give somebody else atry. Thank You.

  • Gordon on August 9, 2008, 15:15 GMT

    One more like chanders and the west indies would have a better win lost draw record. Without him it would have been worst. Keep on batting chanders

  • nadir on August 9, 2008, 13:55 GMT

    what i think the west indians in most cases dont respect their greats. may be even at times they look for a jamaican or trinidadian or blah blah... that is the reason lara couldnt concentrate at many point of his career. may be same is going to happen with shiv. i am a bangladeshi but a great fan of lara and wi cricket. but to be honest in the present wi team there is none who can be followed with passion less shiv. and of course it was lara who gathered many fans for his team like me.

  • MikeP on August 9, 2008, 11:18 GMT

    Dedication and hard work are not qualities admired generally by West Indians. We like flair and flamboyance. It is like a woman preferring the idle "sugar daddy" to the husband who shoulders his responsibilities like a true man.

    The quicker we start demanding more from the "shottas" like Chris Gayle, Runako Morton, and yes Ramnaresh Sarwan, the better it is for the W.I. team. Being aggressive and wanting to play your "natural game" is for me a cop out; an excuse for failure.

    What is wrong with treasuring your wicket and wanting to bat long? You cannot score in the pavilion!! If Shiv had only 1 other player with the same dedication and sense of responsibility, the WI team would not be the in this sorry state we are in, langusihing behind Bangladesh & Zimbabwe!!

    Sobers, Kanhai, Lloyd Richards, Lara etal must be overburdened with grief at the sorry state of our batsmanship.

  • riverlime on August 9, 2008, 8:35 GMT

    Steven, saying you're West Indian means nothing. And if you ARE West Indian, then you should be able to tell me which part of the West Indies my name suggests I'm from! Remember the the whole world laughs at WI cricket for forcing out the world's greatest batsman, who arguably had 2 more years of Test cricket left in him, and was producing runs, unlike his only contemporary (81 in SIX innings!). Chanderpaul has nothing to prove and you can see that in his demeanor. He just bats. He acts as though he has just bought the land around his wicket and is planning to build a house on it. Two such "drop-anchor" men in a team and they would not ever lose another Test match.

  • capricorn on August 9, 2008, 7:48 GMT

    Dear all,

    If anyone is saying that shiv is a selfish and limpet cricketer, I would call him/her a novice at cricket. How could one forget his century against australia in 69 balls, his 150 against south africa in ODI in 136 balls, his 149 (I don't actually remember the exact score, but I hope it is 149) against India in 136 balls when everyone in his line up were falling like a pack of cards. Even Sachin tendulkar and Lara haven't scored such quickfire hundred against australian attack (Lara has scored in 80 balls. I don't know about tendulkar's).

  • The Truth on August 9, 2008, 5:04 GMT

    To all the Shiv Haters: He's #2 in the world and gunning for #1. He's not worried about you doubters, he just goes out there and bats all day without losing his wicket. Don't be madd because your favorite batsmen throws his wicket away or lacks the concentration and focus that Shiv has.

    It was a gift for me to be able to see that man bat live and fun to see him outlast Brett Lee and the aussies this past month or so. Too bad Sarwan, marshall, runako and bravo couldn't do the job and help him during their series against Aus.

    Don't forget how Brett Lee laid him out, yet he still got up and fought back.Maybe I'm wrong, and all the haters are right so then I guess selfish players like to risk further injury by continuing to play and trying to help their team win huh?

    And lets not forget the 10 (1 six and 1 four) off the last two balls against SL this year off of Vaas to win the game for them.

  • rajiv on August 9, 2008, 2:53 GMT

    Apparently many of u dont know the meaning of the word selfish. Shiv is an amazing player. he has always been an amazing player but the greatness and flambouyance of Lara always over-shadowed Chanders. If you look at the score cards when Lara played chanders was always among the runs (most of the time). When Lara left shiv brought it upon himself 2 bring some sort of dignity 2 west indian cricket. Many of u may say he doesnt sheperd the lower order. Must he do everything!!!?? Shiv iz in a class of his own. He plays cricket the way it should be played, i.e. with his bat and his mental and physically enduring strength, unlike other players. NOTE: the best shot shiv ever played waz the audacious 6 he hit off Andre Nel during the Champions Trophy!!

  • L4zybugg3r on August 9, 2008, 2:51 GMT

    I must be going mad but is that 'Tony' as in Greig. Seriously now, Shiv is obivously very valuable to Windies and has a great record. Perhaps maybe he could lift the tempo depending on the game situation to give the side so more momentum. Having said that he does work very hard for his runs so full credit to him.

  • Rushied on August 9, 2008, 1:40 GMT

    Firstly,our family is just in awe of chandrapaul. Secondly,our family is just in awe of chandapaul. The world stops for us when shiv is batting.

  • mastablasta on August 8, 2008, 23:15 GMT

    I have been honoured to play with (against) Shiv once. You do not find anybody as humble as he is. Even though it was small league in US, he came played with us. Luckily he got out on 50. Next guy got injured and guess what? He came as a runner. How he can be selfish? He should be sent one down or two down. To me he is real superstar.

  • Indian on August 8, 2008, 22:55 GMT

    'selfish' is a title that great West Indian batsmen have to hear in these times. In a mediocre WI batting line up, if one person stands above the rest and does not want to throw his wicket away, he is considered selfish. Lara had the tag, now it is passed on to Chanderpaul!!

  • mastablasta on August 8, 2008, 22:24 GMT

    I have been honoured to play with (against) Shiv once. You do not find anybody as humble as he is. Even though it was small league in US, he came played with us. Luckily he got out on 50. Next guy got injured and guess what? He came as a runner. How he can be selfish? He should be sent one down or two down. To me he is real superstar.

  • Tony on August 8, 2008, 19:45 GMT

    Following on from Salim,I totally agree with you on the consistency of Lara. But have you notice how many times Shiv have been left not out.Unlike Lara, who had shiv at the other end many a times when he was batting.had it not been for the west indies ridiculously long tail he would have had many more centuries to his name.As far as sheparding the tail he should be fed up. Adding the inconsistency of the west indies top order along with the tailenders which seems to start right after shiv comes into bat and the fact that they don't even know which end of the bat to hold, why should'nt he.On that note.Beside all his flaws shiv has done what every batsman should do and that is score runs and consistently so under difficult circumstances too many a times ever since his tripple hundred to get him into the west indies team. Kudos to you Shiv!!!

  • Ken Persaud on August 8, 2008, 18:29 GMT

    No one can deny Shiv Chanderpaul's myopic dedication but I have to admit along with most members of this blog...yes..Shiv does seem to care more about his wicket than analyse the Game situation itself.We are left many times scratching our heads wirh him taking a single off the first ball of an over when the other batsman is a NO 10 or 11.Sometimes batting for averages and aggregate is not everything..but the team should take precedence.

  • sgi on August 8, 2008, 18:03 GMT

    Shiv values his wicket and hence the number of not out innnings that he has. Currently he is the only world class player on a weak Windies team. I do not think that he is a selfish player

  • SGI on August 8, 2008, 17:28 GMT

    I appreciate and admire Shiv. Let's focus on him and stop always making pokes at Lara. The reason people feel obligated to knock Lara is because they know if they are honest with themselves he must be regarded as one of the greatest. That being said where would Windies be now without Shiv. Just for the record I respect Tendulkar but am not a big Tendulkar fan,however I do not try to pull him down at every opportunity. Let Lara be, let Tendulkar be and also let Shiv be. We can only speculate on the motives behind these players actions.

  • Steven on August 8, 2008, 15:03 GMT

    Let me just ask this ? Who who you have on your team .Mr. A who scores 40, 52 ,45 and 40 over two tests or Mr. B who scores 20 , 11, 25 and 200*. Granted Mr. B with the 200* has scored a century during the series , scored more runs and even has a higher average than Mr. A. However, in my book Mr. A is the more consistent batsman. So to suggest that since a batsman has scored 16 centuries over 62 innings and another has scored 8 in the same 62 that makes him more consistent is ,in my opininon, a fallacious statement since we don't know what other contributions were made by the players during their entire 62 innings. Furthermore ,as I illustrated earlier its quite easy to maintain a consistant average simply by making one big score during a series. This is why I consider Chanderpaul to be a more reliable batsman than Lara . And yes I'm a West Indian.

  • Neil on August 8, 2008, 13:36 GMT

    Chanderpaul is an unlikely hero,slight of build and not tall in stature(may be to his advantage,see Bradman,Border,Gavaskar etc.)His stance is crablike and his movements at the crease are stuttering and awkward. But,what he lacks in grace he makes up for in ticker and temperament.It's hard to come up with a player in test history whose record so surpasses his natural gifts.Matthew Hayden does come close though.The real test of any player is his record against the best team of his era. Against Australia in the modern era Shiv(ave.48.4)compares very favourably with some much brighter lights,Lara 51,Dravid 45.8,Laxman 50.6 and Vaughan 48 and he is greatly admired here. He's the modern Larry Gomes. Aussies revere Tendulkar ave.56 for the same reason. Conversely, they don't rate Kallis, ave 38.3 for the same reason that West Indians in the 1980s thought Botham was a dud. A little known 80s Aussie called Bruce Laird (ave.45) is discussed more in Kingston pubs than the mighty "Both" is.

    [Response: thanks: interesting comment.]

  • Salim on August 8, 2008, 12:58 GMT

    Following on from Steven, eddy and Terry let me add my five cents worth. Steven prefers consistent batsman like Shiv and Tend over 'inconsistent' Lara. Does 6 tons in 62 innings since 2004 sound consistent to anyone out there, and what batsmen am i alluding to? People really should do some homework before posting nonsense.

    Just for a balanced view Lara made 13 tons from his last 62 innings and Shiv has made 8 tons from the last 62 innings.

    WHO'S CONSISTENT?

  • Kavir on August 8, 2008, 12:48 GMT

    I have been following Shiv since inception. I would have to say that over the past 3 years or so, he stopped giving a dam about protecting the tale. It's something that he has done many times in the past, and unlike Lara, he seemed to just get fedup of doing it...and I honestly don't blame the man or anything, playing in a second string side for almost his entire career and always in the shadow of someone else. Shiv has done enough of the shepherding the tale most of his career and now he is just focusing on himself and after what he's been through I don't blame him. Think about it, it's really only now Shiv seems to be getting the recognition he somewhat always deserved. At the cost of what? Putting the highest price on his wicket? Come on ppl, know your cricket.

  • Mayur Baruah on August 8, 2008, 10:18 GMT

    I think Courtney Walsh deserves a place in the list provided above....!!

  • Terry on August 8, 2008, 9:44 GMT

    Steven your quote..'I would prefer to have an always reliable Chanderpaul on my team than an inconsistent great player,like say a Lara' is, using your own words, 'ridiculous'. It appears that your admiration for Tendulkar is at the expence of Lara. Ive seen you argue in previous blogs about Lara and even in a piece about Shiv Chanderpaul you find time to have a dig at Lara. You know you CAN actually like and respect both Lara and Tendulkar!

  • Conrad on August 8, 2008, 9:42 GMT

    I only have one problem with Chiv and I believe that this is the reason he has not yet received the status of "GREAT": He bats too low down the order. He needs to trust himself more, come in at number 4 and let the team bat around him. Personally, I believe he is good enough to bat 1, 2 or 3 and still be not out!!!

  • eddy on August 8, 2008, 8:32 GMT

    @ Steven...you obviously havent read the piece written by Ananth Narayanan about peaks and troughs of batsman. It proved that Lara WAS a very consistent batsman. Please get the your facts right.

  • Ska on August 8, 2008, 8:18 GMT

    I happened to read articles about Sanga, G. Smith before this .. couldn't help notice that despite them & Shiv being great batsmen their own countrymen are not a proud lot. I'm from India and I'd absolutely love to have all/any of them on my side and even if they fail once in a while or score slow or bat irresponsibly/aggressively .. I'd admire them no matter. What is wrong with people? How can anyone just write Shiv is selfish? Everybody wants to win, if they can't, they try not to lose and that's what Shiv determination not to give his wicket away brings to the WI team.

  • Vivek on August 8, 2008, 6:00 GMT

    Interesting. If this analysis was done for ODIs, would Michael Bevan be somewhere close to top?

  • David on August 8, 2008, 4:48 GMT

    It is so surprising that despite all the above mention people can still find some way to make a bad comment. It amazes me that people could still make ridiculous statemants such as " he does'nt shepherd the tail". Firstly he is always lower down the batting order and secondly and the lower order still must be able to bat. If they cant bat then they cant bat. To say a statements such as that is silly unless your saying west indies is chanderpaul.

  • Marcus on August 8, 2008, 2:06 GMT

    If George Headley was the Black Bradman, Chanderpaul must surely be the Black Border! Both of these players have remarkeably similar Test stats, and both faced the same team situation- Border holding the Australian 80's team together after the retirement of Greg Chappell, Chanderpaul doing the same for the post-Lara Windies. Few batsmen can have been as valuable to their teams as Chanderpaul, undoubtedly one of the all-time greats.

  • Sunita on August 8, 2008, 0:04 GMT

    I would like to point out to Sebastian that in Test Cricket, when the rest of the batsmen are getting out cheaply, its foolish to score 50 in 10 overs and get out. Because the earlier the team is out, the more the time the opposition gets to score runs and have a second go. Considering the situations that shiv has batted in I think he has done exceptional service to westindies cricket. Instead of being a armchair critic and calling a selfless grinder as shiv selfish, I would request you to also analyze the situations in which he has put in those efforts. You will suprised by what you find.

    [Response: thanks for your comment, but a polite reminder. Chanderpaul's 'selfishness' or 'selflessness' are not relevant; no further comments on the subject of selfishness will be posted.]

  • Steven on August 7, 2008, 22:33 GMT

    Chanderpaul's stats illustrates, that although yes he is an amazing cricketer with immense powers of concentration and is arguably the most consistent batsman around today; he will always linger on that border between a good cricketer and a truly great cricketer since unlike a Tendulkar, for example, he does not score very quickly (regularly) . However , even in saying that (I know some might find this ridiculous) I would prefer to have an always reliable Chanderpaul on my team than an inconsistent great player,like say a Lara.

  • Longmemory on August 7, 2008, 21:02 GMT

    I've long been an admirer of Chanders and his indomitable will. He stands out in a Windies team that is mostly filled with flamboyant one-match wonders with little or no commitment. However, I've also felt that Chanders high number of not-outs in recent years is boosted by the fact that he never farms the strike; is quite happy to grab the single off the first ball and leave nine-ten-and-jack to face the music. Steve Waugh popularized this tough-love with tailenders but it works when you have eleven Aussies who never give their wicket away. When Chanders does it, it sometimes seems just selfish.

  • Sebastian du Plessis on August 7, 2008, 17:43 GMT

    Undoubtedly, Shiv is a true 'limpet', but I don't think most bowlers mind bowling at him as he refuses to shepherd the tail and, invariably, he will take any singles on offer and expose the tail. My greatest complaint about Shiv is that he is a selfish player and is more concerned with protecting his wicket (and it is not anathema to believe that he is playing for his stats) than the position of his team. True, reason would suggest that the longer he stays in, the more runs his team will score (which is especially true in an ailing side that frequently gets bowled cheaply), but he can be a wonderful attacking batsman when he wills it, and a quick-fire 50 in 10 overs can frequently be more useful to a team than a 100 drawn out over 2 days. I also seem to recall that he has the unenviable caveat of being one of those batsmen who has had his partners run out most often, a bit like other famous limpets, Inzi and Boycott (that would be an interesting article, too!)

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  • Sebastian du Plessis on August 7, 2008, 17:43 GMT

    Undoubtedly, Shiv is a true 'limpet', but I don't think most bowlers mind bowling at him as he refuses to shepherd the tail and, invariably, he will take any singles on offer and expose the tail. My greatest complaint about Shiv is that he is a selfish player and is more concerned with protecting his wicket (and it is not anathema to believe that he is playing for his stats) than the position of his team. True, reason would suggest that the longer he stays in, the more runs his team will score (which is especially true in an ailing side that frequently gets bowled cheaply), but he can be a wonderful attacking batsman when he wills it, and a quick-fire 50 in 10 overs can frequently be more useful to a team than a 100 drawn out over 2 days. I also seem to recall that he has the unenviable caveat of being one of those batsmen who has had his partners run out most often, a bit like other famous limpets, Inzi and Boycott (that would be an interesting article, too!)

  • Longmemory on August 7, 2008, 21:02 GMT

    I've long been an admirer of Chanders and his indomitable will. He stands out in a Windies team that is mostly filled with flamboyant one-match wonders with little or no commitment. However, I've also felt that Chanders high number of not-outs in recent years is boosted by the fact that he never farms the strike; is quite happy to grab the single off the first ball and leave nine-ten-and-jack to face the music. Steve Waugh popularized this tough-love with tailenders but it works when you have eleven Aussies who never give their wicket away. When Chanders does it, it sometimes seems just selfish.

  • Steven on August 7, 2008, 22:33 GMT

    Chanderpaul's stats illustrates, that although yes he is an amazing cricketer with immense powers of concentration and is arguably the most consistent batsman around today; he will always linger on that border between a good cricketer and a truly great cricketer since unlike a Tendulkar, for example, he does not score very quickly (regularly) . However , even in saying that (I know some might find this ridiculous) I would prefer to have an always reliable Chanderpaul on my team than an inconsistent great player,like say a Lara.

  • Sunita on August 8, 2008, 0:04 GMT

    I would like to point out to Sebastian that in Test Cricket, when the rest of the batsmen are getting out cheaply, its foolish to score 50 in 10 overs and get out. Because the earlier the team is out, the more the time the opposition gets to score runs and have a second go. Considering the situations that shiv has batted in I think he has done exceptional service to westindies cricket. Instead of being a armchair critic and calling a selfless grinder as shiv selfish, I would request you to also analyze the situations in which he has put in those efforts. You will suprised by what you find.

    [Response: thanks for your comment, but a polite reminder. Chanderpaul's 'selfishness' or 'selflessness' are not relevant; no further comments on the subject of selfishness will be posted.]

  • Marcus on August 8, 2008, 2:06 GMT

    If George Headley was the Black Bradman, Chanderpaul must surely be the Black Border! Both of these players have remarkeably similar Test stats, and both faced the same team situation- Border holding the Australian 80's team together after the retirement of Greg Chappell, Chanderpaul doing the same for the post-Lara Windies. Few batsmen can have been as valuable to their teams as Chanderpaul, undoubtedly one of the all-time greats.

  • David on August 8, 2008, 4:48 GMT

    It is so surprising that despite all the above mention people can still find some way to make a bad comment. It amazes me that people could still make ridiculous statemants such as " he does'nt shepherd the tail". Firstly he is always lower down the batting order and secondly and the lower order still must be able to bat. If they cant bat then they cant bat. To say a statements such as that is silly unless your saying west indies is chanderpaul.

  • Vivek on August 8, 2008, 6:00 GMT

    Interesting. If this analysis was done for ODIs, would Michael Bevan be somewhere close to top?

  • Ska on August 8, 2008, 8:18 GMT

    I happened to read articles about Sanga, G. Smith before this .. couldn't help notice that despite them & Shiv being great batsmen their own countrymen are not a proud lot. I'm from India and I'd absolutely love to have all/any of them on my side and even if they fail once in a while or score slow or bat irresponsibly/aggressively .. I'd admire them no matter. What is wrong with people? How can anyone just write Shiv is selfish? Everybody wants to win, if they can't, they try not to lose and that's what Shiv determination not to give his wicket away brings to the WI team.

  • eddy on August 8, 2008, 8:32 GMT

    @ Steven...you obviously havent read the piece written by Ananth Narayanan about peaks and troughs of batsman. It proved that Lara WAS a very consistent batsman. Please get the your facts right.

  • Conrad on August 8, 2008, 9:42 GMT

    I only have one problem with Chiv and I believe that this is the reason he has not yet received the status of "GREAT": He bats too low down the order. He needs to trust himself more, come in at number 4 and let the team bat around him. Personally, I believe he is good enough to bat 1, 2 or 3 and still be not out!!!