England v New Zealand, 2nd NatWest ODI, Ageas Bowl June 2, 2013

England's CT plans hit by defeats, injuries

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England's plans for the Champions Trophy could need a significant rethink over the next few days following their two heavy defeats against New Zealand amid growing concerns over the fitness of Stuart Broad and Steven Finn less than a week before their opening match of the tournament against Australia.

Broad and Finn have missed the first two ODIs against New Zealand with knee and shin problems respectively. They are due to undergo fitness tests on Monday, although a clearer picture of their chances of making the Champions Trophy may not be available until Tuesday when the England squad reconvenes at Trent Bridge.

Broad's knee problem was picked up on the final day of the Headingley Test when he took a caught-and-bowled off Brendon McCullum. Finn's shin soreness suggests a more stress-related problem after his early-season workload. It would be a major, and almost unworkable, gamble for England to enter the Champions Trophy with two of their strike bowlers under injury clouds. Teams can replace injured players, subject to ICC ratification, at any time but once a player is removed he can't return to the 15-man squad.

"They are both a concern," admitted Alastair Cook, "but five or six days is still quite a long way away. They've missed two games and been out for a while, so we'll see."

However, even in the worst-case scenario where England lose both bowlers, Cook did not believe it had to be terminal to their chances. "I think that would be doing a disservice to the other 13 guys in the squad," he said. "If you take two premier bowlers out of any side it will hurt and you might have to change the way you play."

Cook gave a strong indication that England would consider moving away from the current balance of six batsmen and five frontline bowlers for the final ODI against New Zealand at Trent Bridge on Wednesday. When Broad and Finn are fit they make a strong bowling line-up alongside James Anderson, Tim Bresnan and Graeme Swann, but Jade Dernbach and Chris Woakes have struggled to fill the breach. Dernbach went for 87 in 10 overs in the second game and Woakes, albeit having suffered a dropped catch for the second match running, went wicketless again and was used for only seven overs.

As far as options go, quick bowler Boyd Rankin is part of the squad for the New Zealand series. Ravi Bopara, who has been made available for Essex's YB40 match against Surrey on Monday, would provide an all-round option and James Tredwell another spin choice.

"It's been a tough couple of games," Cook said. "Clearly when you lose bowlers of the quality of Stuart and Finny it leaves a hole. It has the given the opportunity to guys to show us what they can do. We've learned a lot about these players and us as a side. It's obviously a concern; the standards we've played to here haven't been good enough.

"You do tend to look, after a couple of defeats, at the balance and make-up of your side. We certainly have options to go both ways… at this point I'm sure we'll look at different combinations because the ones we've used haven't worked in these two games."

While conceding the series loss - and by such convincing margins - has dealt a blow to preparations going into the Champions Trophy, Cook remained upbeat that his team will be able to turn their form around.

"It's frustrating because you always want to build momentum and build confidence but as you look at the tournament from now you realise it's two weeks of cricket and you have to play your best for two weeks," he said. "Whoever does that will win the tournament. This will be of little relevance when we get there, but in an ideal world we'd have won these games. Sometimes when you lose good things can come of it."

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • on June 3, 2013, 4:29 GMT

    Millions of die hard English supporters though having lost all hope of winning the CT (if they are realistic) must now have two sets of fingers on both hands crossed behind their backs for the Ashes hopeing against all hope. 1. Hopeing that Finn, Broad and Anderson all stay fit for the entire 10 tests. 2. That Finn and Broad somehow manage to buck the trend of their careers to date by being consistently good in all conditions. I would almost rather have Australia's batting problems than England's bowling depth concerns ahead of 10 tests. A poor batting lineup can still take advantage of mediocre bowling but it is always a very long 2 days in the field for any substandard attack. Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!

  • on June 5, 2013, 21:05 GMT

    The CT does not matter a fig, we MUST set retaining the Ashes as our priority this Summer, nothing else.

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 5, 2013, 0:12 GMT

    I doubt the English have anything to worry about these Ashes. As yesterday's Australian performance against the Indians suggested, neither is the Aussie batting, nor is their bowling likely to threaten anybody, let alone the Poms who have more world class players (Pietersen, Prior, Swann, Anderson, Trott, Bell, Cook, Finn, Broad and Root) than them (Clarke, Watson, Siddle and Pattinson).

    Australia will be most fortunate to not lose by a margin of at least 0-8.

  • Meety on June 5, 2013, 0:00 GMT

    @LMcPaul - "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!" - like India's ODI line up yesterday? Man that hurts saying it! That said I have ALWAYS rated Yadav as a special talent.

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 16:43 GMT

    @Lyndon McPaul - Let's see how it all pans out. Our bowling attack depth is a concern and I think Australia have a very real chance but I just felt your post was very one eyed

    @AKS - I think Tremlett got injured in 2011 and has not played many games since coming back from injury and has done little of note since. Why would you pick someone who has come off a long injury lay off and has done little for Surrey to make you think he's as potent as he was pre injury? Simon Jones was probably better than most of our current crop and now he's just a county player

  • AKS286 on June 4, 2013, 16:04 GMT

    @JG2704 Fella Tremlett don't get a fair chance to prove. England have good pace bowlers in backbench the problem is that not well rotated or did't get international exposure.@ Lyndon McPaul on (June 4, 2013, 11:56 GMT) Australia is slightly above to England. Actually Australia rotation policy & international exposure is more than Eng. Australia tried too many bowlers and fail to manage them. Onion,Tremlett, M.Footit, CJ Wright, Sayers, Meaker, j.Brooks, C.Shreck, Trego, Roland jones, J.Harris are good back benches but the only thing is required is management. SA is having more powerful guns in deadly barrage but difficult to manage all.

  • on June 4, 2013, 11:56 GMT

    JG2704..oh and as far as most knowledgeable cricket commentators would agree; Australia has a far larger depth in pace stocks than England. At the moment we have 4 world class seamers + 1 highly talented (M.Starc) in the squad itself. Our number 1 shield wicket taker is outside the squad but in the A tour in England at the moment (Chadd Sayers). He swings the ball both ways accurately at pace, so were their to be 1,2 or even 3 injuries to our bowlers we could still find some potent replacements. Australia's depth will count more and more with Each of the 10 tests.

  • on June 4, 2013, 11:08 GMT

    @JG2704."Don't think you're arguments stack up that well. Australia seem to get the same injury probs with their bowlers that England get" I am not arguing; it is beyond argument that England have the injury concerns right now with their bowlers and that they dont have a clue as to possible replacements at least for the CT. Sport is a creature of the present never the past. In re to "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!" You mean like India's test bowlers? India's bowling was very hard to play for the particular conditions and the pitch preparations were contrived to strongly suit India's strength of spin bowling.Despite this (and no excuses) Australia still managed some good first innings totals but crumbled in the second innings as pitches that were turning square on the first day continued to deteriorate.My point however is that in conditions a lot more favourable to Australia's style of play; England has to bowl well to win!

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    @Meety on (June 4, 2013, 8:15 GMT) I'm not sure what Napier's shorter format form is overall but every time I see him on TV he seems to do something with bat or ball. I know he's a bits and pieces player but T20 in particular and 50 overs formats need these sort of players.

    @AKS286 on (June 4, 2013, 7:16 GMT) Broad has a slightly better ER and a much better average/SR in ODIs. Tremlett has done nothing of note since coming back

    @Un_Citoyen_Indien on (June 4, 2013, 4:55 GMT) a WC in the test format has been talked about but is extremely tough to organise. In England so many matches are rain affected. Obviously as heartbreaking as it is that you and your friends don't like the test format and it's not everyone's cup of tea , there are still many out there who see test cricket as the pinnacle

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    @Lyndon McPaul on (June 3, 2013, 4:29 GMT) Don't think you're arguments stack up that well. Australia seem to get the same injury probs with their bowlers that England get and re

    "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!"

    You mean like India's test bowlers?

  • on June 3, 2013, 4:29 GMT

    Millions of die hard English supporters though having lost all hope of winning the CT (if they are realistic) must now have two sets of fingers on both hands crossed behind their backs for the Ashes hopeing against all hope. 1. Hopeing that Finn, Broad and Anderson all stay fit for the entire 10 tests. 2. That Finn and Broad somehow manage to buck the trend of their careers to date by being consistently good in all conditions. I would almost rather have Australia's batting problems than England's bowling depth concerns ahead of 10 tests. A poor batting lineup can still take advantage of mediocre bowling but it is always a very long 2 days in the field for any substandard attack. Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!

  • on June 5, 2013, 21:05 GMT

    The CT does not matter a fig, we MUST set retaining the Ashes as our priority this Summer, nothing else.

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 5, 2013, 0:12 GMT

    I doubt the English have anything to worry about these Ashes. As yesterday's Australian performance against the Indians suggested, neither is the Aussie batting, nor is their bowling likely to threaten anybody, let alone the Poms who have more world class players (Pietersen, Prior, Swann, Anderson, Trott, Bell, Cook, Finn, Broad and Root) than them (Clarke, Watson, Siddle and Pattinson).

    Australia will be most fortunate to not lose by a margin of at least 0-8.

  • Meety on June 5, 2013, 0:00 GMT

    @LMcPaul - "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!" - like India's ODI line up yesterday? Man that hurts saying it! That said I have ALWAYS rated Yadav as a special talent.

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 16:43 GMT

    @Lyndon McPaul - Let's see how it all pans out. Our bowling attack depth is a concern and I think Australia have a very real chance but I just felt your post was very one eyed

    @AKS - I think Tremlett got injured in 2011 and has not played many games since coming back from injury and has done little of note since. Why would you pick someone who has come off a long injury lay off and has done little for Surrey to make you think he's as potent as he was pre injury? Simon Jones was probably better than most of our current crop and now he's just a county player

  • AKS286 on June 4, 2013, 16:04 GMT

    @JG2704 Fella Tremlett don't get a fair chance to prove. England have good pace bowlers in backbench the problem is that not well rotated or did't get international exposure.@ Lyndon McPaul on (June 4, 2013, 11:56 GMT) Australia is slightly above to England. Actually Australia rotation policy & international exposure is more than Eng. Australia tried too many bowlers and fail to manage them. Onion,Tremlett, M.Footit, CJ Wright, Sayers, Meaker, j.Brooks, C.Shreck, Trego, Roland jones, J.Harris are good back benches but the only thing is required is management. SA is having more powerful guns in deadly barrage but difficult to manage all.

  • on June 4, 2013, 11:56 GMT

    JG2704..oh and as far as most knowledgeable cricket commentators would agree; Australia has a far larger depth in pace stocks than England. At the moment we have 4 world class seamers + 1 highly talented (M.Starc) in the squad itself. Our number 1 shield wicket taker is outside the squad but in the A tour in England at the moment (Chadd Sayers). He swings the ball both ways accurately at pace, so were their to be 1,2 or even 3 injuries to our bowlers we could still find some potent replacements. Australia's depth will count more and more with Each of the 10 tests.

  • on June 4, 2013, 11:08 GMT

    @JG2704."Don't think you're arguments stack up that well. Australia seem to get the same injury probs with their bowlers that England get" I am not arguing; it is beyond argument that England have the injury concerns right now with their bowlers and that they dont have a clue as to possible replacements at least for the CT. Sport is a creature of the present never the past. In re to "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!" You mean like India's test bowlers? India's bowling was very hard to play for the particular conditions and the pitch preparations were contrived to strongly suit India's strength of spin bowling.Despite this (and no excuses) Australia still managed some good first innings totals but crumbled in the second innings as pitches that were turning square on the first day continued to deteriorate.My point however is that in conditions a lot more favourable to Australia's style of play; England has to bowl well to win!

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    @Meety on (June 4, 2013, 8:15 GMT) I'm not sure what Napier's shorter format form is overall but every time I see him on TV he seems to do something with bat or ball. I know he's a bits and pieces player but T20 in particular and 50 overs formats need these sort of players.

    @AKS286 on (June 4, 2013, 7:16 GMT) Broad has a slightly better ER and a much better average/SR in ODIs. Tremlett has done nothing of note since coming back

    @Un_Citoyen_Indien on (June 4, 2013, 4:55 GMT) a WC in the test format has been talked about but is extremely tough to organise. In England so many matches are rain affected. Obviously as heartbreaking as it is that you and your friends don't like the test format and it's not everyone's cup of tea , there are still many out there who see test cricket as the pinnacle

  • JG2704 on June 4, 2013, 9:20 GMT

    @Lyndon McPaul on (June 3, 2013, 4:29 GMT) Don't think you're arguments stack up that well. Australia seem to get the same injury probs with their bowlers that England get and re

    "Say what you like about Australia's batting but it still takes good bowling to get them out!"

    You mean like India's test bowlers?

  • Meety on June 4, 2013, 8:15 GMT

    @ JG2704 on (June 3, 2013, 21:53 GMT) - Napier was a name that I'd seen pop up in reports from time to time & I occasionally watch the odd Eng domestic 40 over game while I am waiting to pick my daughter up from work. Anyways seeing the 7 wicket performance - I read his cricinfo bio - he seems to be a desperately unlucky bloke, who every time he looks like getting selected he gets injured or loses form. Like others here, I think the Dernbach persistance is just plain bloody minded stubborness, - he'd be the only one that I'd change, but that would also depend on the real fitness levels of Broad & Finn. Broad's injury doesn't like much, (who knows?), but the Finn shin (sounds better as one word), injury seems to be more of a worry!

  • indiasucksgobd on June 4, 2013, 8:08 GMT

    As much as it pains me to say this England have absolutely no chance in the ct.without kp they are too defensive and don't take initiative.Joe root is overrated Nasir Hossain is miles better than him

  • baz72notout on June 4, 2013, 7:54 GMT

    England's choice of reserve bowlers for the Champions trophy is disappointing to say the least. When are Onions, Meaker and Tremlett going to be brought into contention? Rankin is brought in because of his height, yet he is "retired" from Irish internationals. Onions is a wicket to wicket bowler and although no great shakes with the bat, has the ability to keep the run rate low. Giles seems to be leaning towards any Warwickshire bowler he happens to have coached. Let's hope Andy Flower casts his net a bit wider when it comes to picking the Ashes squad: Dernbach has had a fair chance to prove himself and has been underwhelming for some time now. Time to let him prove himself in the county game.

  • AKS286 on June 4, 2013, 7:16 GMT

    I'll prefer Tremlett over Broad. If Tremlett is fully fit then why he is not in the squad? Dernbach struggled in every match he is the most expensive bowler. dernbach is ideal for test. Batsmen will not counter him and his mysterious line & length will produce good results in tests. Luke Wright should replace Woakes(wait for more 3 yrs).@RandyOZ on (June 3, 2013, 22:09 GMT) First find your Openers, Middle order batsmen, Wicket Keeper, Spinner, Captain & Selectors. T20 players in tests & test players in T20.

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 4, 2013, 4:55 GMT

    @ Kensohatter: Here we go again......so, test cricket is the 'pinnacle of the sport' eh? Care to explain why then is the Cricket World Cup is not played in the test match format.

    Oh and I articulate my thoughts about cricket just fine, so you needn't worry. It's just that neither I, nor my friends have got the time to waste watching (yawn) 5 whole days of test cricket. The format is just plain archaic and reeks of the nineteenth century. I watch it occasionally if say a Steyn or a Swann are bowling well or if a de Villiers or a Pietersen is batting well. So...yeah.

    Guess I just assumed where you're from. I pretty much had you figured for a Pom.

  • Mitty2 on June 4, 2013, 3:28 GMT

    @FFL, I've noticed a lot of double posting on your behalf alot, with the comments not to far apart with a slight change in phrasing... "Mr. 766" was a good one though... I'll give you credit for that

    But, could it be, Mr front_foot_lunge, that you spend your time at home before an article is even posted writing up new comments? And then when anything in retaliation from an Aussie fan comes along or just on an Aussie board... You pounce!

    But seriously, I love the evolution of your work with all the new stuff that's coming in, you're an artist. Back before the indian series, when we had lost 3 tests since the ashes compared to your 7, you're only calls were about history and the "5 long years of English dominance" (in which you leave out some ODI smahings but include the '12 series) and bagging the "seamer" Lyon and the not even a quarter of prior in Wade. And now, there's just too much to write about! You could only possibly keep a record right?

  • on June 4, 2013, 1:26 GMT

    I'm not sure why Dernbach is preferred to Onions; by any objective assessment the latter is a better bowler. Mind boggling. Then there is Mark Davies. Injury prone but probably the most accurate bowler in the country. Sad to see Woakes not fulfilling his potential. A bit down on confidence, perhaps.

  • kensohatter on June 4, 2013, 0:11 GMT

    @irishwolfhound.... interesting comments. I wondered what happened to Rankin as he really showed promise for Ireland. I think rules need to be in place for affilate teams that protect their players. How can they be expected to grow if their best players get poached. Id actually like to see players (probably at the ends of their career) with ties to an affilate country actually play for that country to help that team develop. The ICC should subsidise their payments

  • kensohatter on June 4, 2013, 0:06 GMT

    @citoyen... first up I never said i didnt enjoy one day matches i just said that this champions trophy is not a highly regarded trophy when compared to a world cup or the ashes and that england should be focussing their resources elsewhere. Secondly im australian so if the english are having problems explaining test cricket to frenchmen then so be it. Thirdly the reason the poms havnt won a world cup is that they have never had the players to do so... its the same reason they (and we) havnt won a football world cup. Lastly yes test cricket is the pinnacle of our sport and must be protected as such. As cricket fans its our duty to educate those around us and if you have trouble articulating this to your friends no matter what country you they are from then maybe you should follow a less complex and strategic sport (maybe shot put). Side note - I apologise to the shot putting fraternity im sure there are complexities to your sport I have not yet had time to appreciate!

  • Lmaotsetung on June 3, 2013, 23:29 GMT

    I haven't read all the comments or even the whole article knowing all the vultures will be circling camp England with this minor setback. I'm not worried at all about England's chances for the CT. All teams will go thru these injury scare at one point or another in the tournament. Afterall, despite their atrocious performances in the last World Cup, they always rise to the occasion when needed (see v India, v SA, v WI). No minnows in this tournament so no complacency from them this time :) BTW, please get rid of that horrible red jersey!!!!

  • RandyOZ on June 3, 2013, 22:09 GMT

    The stocks are seriously low if you are hoping on Broad and Finn, serial non-wicket takers, to get you through an Ashes series!

  • JG2704 on June 3, 2013, 21:53 GMT

    I've just been watching the Essex/Surrey game and Napier always seems to do something with bat or ball in televised games. He seemed to be finding the Yorker length with great regularity and has great variations (changes of pace etc). Although it would not be a like for like replacement , I wonder if Napier could do a job at number 7 or 8? Could he do worse than our pacers the other day?

  • JG2704 on June 3, 2013, 21:52 GMT

    @ddhillon21 on (June 3, 2013, 12:05 GMT) Broad is injury prone - period , but I think he was our best bowler in UAE

    @irishwolfhound on (June 3, 2013, 15:34 GMT) Not sure re Boyd , but I believe that ECB had put in place (admittedly after Morgan/Rankin and whoever else) last year where the qualification period is more lengthy etc. Obviously you were ok about all the imports playing for Ireland's football team in the 90s and Murtagh qualifying to play for your side because his grandfather was Irish , but then I guess it's different when it works in your favour?

  • JG2704 on June 3, 2013, 21:51 GMT

    @Varun Shukla on (June 3, 2013, 5:32 GMT) re doing nothing in T20 - does that include the world cup win in 2010? I always though fluke's were one off things. England beat India convincingly in the 2 test wins in India and India beat England convincingly in the other test. Their current form vs NZ is poor but their home form in ODI's in the last few years has been excellent and since India beat Eng 5-0 at the end of 2011 , I believe we've only lost one ODI series 3-2 in India and we drew the T20 2 match series. I'm not going to respond with any hissy fit stuff as India are a decent side - esp in the shorter formats - but is this sort of vulgar post really necessary?

  • Front-Foot-Lunge on June 3, 2013, 20:15 GMT

    With all the injuries, Captain Cook isn't having it easy at the moment. But let's face it, England won't lose sleep over limited overs cricket any time soon, and are just managing their training prior to the Ashes. Also, judging by some of the comments from some Oz fans here, they have clearly taken England's 5 + years of total dominance over them at test cricket very badly indeed. Australian pages miss the debate such posters stimulate, and with so many hot topics in Australian cricket at the moment (the fast tracking of passports, a top order in ruins, a captain humiliated, no spinner to turn the ball, no decent keeper let alone a keeper/batsman like Prior), it's a shame that green envy prevails. The summer can only see an intensity of this outpouring of lament before another Ashes defeat at the hands of England keeps certain ones away for a while....until England next play someone other than Australia of course :)

  • Cpt.Meanster on June 3, 2013, 19:53 GMT

    I would love to think England have a good chance of winning this competition but HONESTLY, I can't see that. For starter, their whole squad is inconsistent and average with the exception of KP, Trott and Bell. Their bowling has always been irrelevant in ODI cricket because opposition batsmen DO NOT fear the likes of Jimmy Anderson, Bresnan and Dernbach. Steve Finn is perhaps the only decent bowler for them IF he plays. Now let's discuss the batting; I have huge admiration for Joe Root but I strongly feel he's being overly hyped for no apparent reason. Still, England needs to open with an aggressive player and Root could do that for them. Bell should be the other batsman. How about Matty Prior ? Why do England always overlook him ? Also, I feel Trott should bat at no.3. KP should be 4 and then Morgan at 5. Also, England need to get rid of Dernbach and Tim Bresnan. They have all had their chances. They are getting nowhere in ODI cricket and nothing has been learned.

  • on June 3, 2013, 19:32 GMT

    What happened to Meaker, Tremlett, Onions?

  • 2.14istherunrate on June 3, 2013, 19:28 GMT

    Finn and Broad worry me with their fitness levels. Then there is Tremlett. 3 very tall bowlers who spend too much time out. Of course it is not just the tall ones-Onions and Bresnan-but my alarm bells are ringing with these. The understudies have made a pig's ear of it in the ODI's and I along with one or two others would probably go along with a second spinner. It is not at all clear who will be playing Champion's Trophy for us. The selectors seem though to be picking from a hat with seamers and I wonder who will appear next. Wright? Meaker? Anyon?

  • on June 3, 2013, 19:14 GMT

    Boyd Rankin should be playing for Ireland.

  • RoBoBobster on June 3, 2013, 19:14 GMT

    we should play: Cook, Root, Trott, Bairstow, Morgan, Wright, Patel, Bresnan, Broad/Finn, Swann, Anderson. 2 rocks -cook and trott, 4 players who can build sensible, possibly agressive innings, (Cook, Root, Bairstow, Morgan), and 3/4 excellent agressive middle order players, (Morgan, Wright, Patel, [Bairstow], and bowling 4 of there top 5 bowlers, and 10 overs from Wright, Patel, and Root. So the plan should be replace Finn or Broad with Wright or Patel, and injure somone with a "training" rugby match. Unfortunatelythis is unlikely to happen as any individual change would be bad so it is all or nothing. Spread the word

  • RandyOZ on June 3, 2013, 18:51 GMT

    Dernbach is yet another example of the failed so-called 'new wave' of South Africans, along with kieswetter, Meaker and Lumb. This is why they have now poached Rankin and Dockerill.

  • Dan9999 on June 3, 2013, 18:48 GMT

    It was only a few months ago we were all lauding England's bowling depth with the likes of Tremlett and Bresnan bowling consistently well. However, for me the problem is with the batting overall. NZ batsmen have no problems again our bowlers, yet the English have monumental struggles against the likes of Grant Elliott, Kane Williamson and Kyle Mills. Let's be realistic none of those guys are superstars by any stretch of the imagination yet they are loving bowling to our boys. Who knows what's going on, we are very fickle us Englishmen and I'm sure in a few weeks or months we will be back praising the strength and depth of country cricket.

  • on June 3, 2013, 18:47 GMT

    pakistan inshallah wins champions trophy

  • on June 3, 2013, 18:29 GMT

    Still why no Stuart Meaker? He is very good

  • Jaffa79 on June 3, 2013, 18:12 GMT

    @ Lyndon McPaul, it takes good bowlers to get Australia out? Bresnan rolled you guys in your own backyard didn't he? I doubt you think he is much cop do you? Bracewell ran through your batting as well (again on home turf) and he isn't even a first choice for the black caps. Jadeja picked up quite a few wickets against the hapless Aussies in India and he turns it less than Lyon! No mate...everyone takes wickets against Australia these days. It does not take a Dennis Lillee or a Malcolm Marshall to snare the scalps of Hughes, Cowan et al!

  • Front-Foot-Lunge on June 3, 2013, 18:10 GMT

    With all the injuries, Mr 766 isn't having it easy at the moment. But let's face it, England won't lose sleep over limited overs cricket any time soon, and are just managing their training prior to the Ashes. Also, judging by some of the comments here, Aussie fans have taken England's 6 years of complete and total dominance over them at test cricket very badly indeed. Australian cricinfo pages miss the debate such posters stimulate, and with so many hot topics in Australian cricket at the moment (the fast tracking of passports, a top order in ruins, a captain humiliated, no spinner to turn the ball, no decent keeper let alone a keeper/batsman like Prior), it's a shame that jealousy prevails. I sense the summer will see an intensity of this outpouring of lament before another Ashes thrashing at the hands of England keeps certain ones away for a while....until England next play someone other than Australia of course :)

  • on June 3, 2013, 17:36 GMT

    @Afnan Sheerazi..u never know,pak being so unpredictable may surprise everybody,Eng may still come good..only two team i see not reaching semifinal is india and SL..these two teams r too weak in bowling to trouble any other teams...

  • BRUTALANALYST on June 3, 2013, 17:26 GMT

    England really lack a power hitter in top 4 without KP, I feel Carberry should be opening in ODI's no question, the top3 are all stroke players on slower tracks they really struggle and need more power in the ever increasing aggressive short format. Derbach also should not be playing for England no mater the format give Rankin or Onions a shot if Broad/Finn are out.

  • on June 3, 2013, 16:22 GMT

    Aus vs Nz final confirm. Pak vs Ind aur Srilanka maximumly reach semifinal but Aus and Nz are best teams in CT.

  • trav29 on June 3, 2013, 15:54 GMT

    :irishwolfhound given rankin is actually british not irish then Ireland have been benefitting from the same rules you are now complaining about

  • wrenx on June 3, 2013, 15:34 GMT

    I think there's an excellent chance Boyd Rankin will get to turn out for the next game. It's a dead rubber, so it will allow the ECB to send a signal to Irish hopefuls that says "See? There is a place for you here. Go on, jump ship, you won't regret it" - an easy way to keep the pipeline open and keep draining talent from Ireland. A depleted pool of players for Ireland to choose from is going to continue as long as England struggles to produce home-grown cricketers of quality

  • Energetic. on June 3, 2013, 14:59 GMT

    Whether England have their first team players or not, they're still not going to win the ICC Trophy. Maybe a top class test side but in limited overs, they are mediocre and still yet to win a 50 over tournament yet :)

  • trav29 on June 3, 2013, 14:38 GMT

    :ddhillon21 well if you bother to look, broad's figures away to SC teams is actually better than his overall ODI record so that theory of yours is invalid

  • indiasucksgobd on June 3, 2013, 14:25 GMT

    Jadejafan ahmed shehzad is a Pakistani batsman perhaps u were talking about ajmal shahzad

  • on June 3, 2013, 14:21 GMT

    Something in the back of my head is telling me that the CT final will be another West Indies and Shri-Lanka show down. New Zealand already wiped out England's hope/light with black paint. Pakistan showed that they will not be an easy push over. Australia, India and West Indies haven't put the big guns on target as yet. Gentle folks...this tournament will be a war house!!!!

  • EnglishCricket on June 3, 2013, 13:51 GMT

    Its risky to use Broad and Finn less than 100% when the Ashes are around the corner. Rankin, Tremlett, Onions, Shehzad are much much better fast bowlers than Dernbach and Woakes so I do not understand why they were selected in the first place.

  • Jadejafan on June 3, 2013, 13:05 GMT

    Even Ahmed Shehzad should be used by England. He's very quick and accurate and for the one day form, I reckon he'll succeed.

  • yorkshire-86 on June 3, 2013, 12:30 GMT

    We can't rely on two players (Morgan and Buttler) to get all the runs every game. We need a top four capable of batting the full fifty themselves at a strike rate of at least a run a ball, and any runs from the sloggers and the bowlers should be a bonus

  • R_U_4_REAL_NICK on June 3, 2013, 12:23 GMT

    I agree with landl47 (post on June 3, 2013, 4:15 GMT): where the heck is Tredwell and/or even young Briggs? After all the talk and articles about Bopara and how he could be England's secret weapon, he's MIA! Dernbach's economy rates are shocking and I, like a lot of others, loved his variations for a while but am now fed up with his poor lack of control and consistency. Onion's treatment is becoming reminiscent of Australia's spin bowlers like Hauritz, which is disappointing. Favourites for Champions Trophy indeed? Maybe they were thinking of a Playstation game or something...

  • on June 3, 2013, 12:07 GMT

    Still no one even talking about Trego. Averaging 101 in the YB40 and is also a decent bowler.

  • ddhillon21 on June 3, 2013, 12:05 GMT

    @trav29: Dont really agree with you. yes broad might have better average. but then when's the last time he played in sub-continent. Malinga and Steyn played everywhere in world. Broad always seems to get an injury when team is visiting overseas. Something not right....

  • thekaz on June 3, 2013, 11:40 GMT

    It's pretty obvious Dernbach and Woakes aren't ready for international level. Woakes looks a better batsman giving his showings in the last two odi's. Dernbach doesn't even have a stock delievery. You need to be able to bowl a line and length and then develop variations not the other way round. The Boyd Rankin inclusion is baffling, watched him play a yb40 game the other night and he couldnt hit his line and length either, would rather see Graham Onions playing at least he can bowl the bowl in the same area consistently.

    As far as England batting, Bell has to go for me, never consistently scores runs, looks great and gets out, people criticising Trotts strike rate are silly, he averages 52 with a SR of 75. PERFECT no 3.

    If Broad and Finn are not fit, our chances have gone in this tournament. Cook, Hales, Trott, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Bresnan, Swann, Broad (Tredwell), Finn (Onions), Anderson.

  • on June 3, 2013, 10:57 GMT

    The bowling WAS horrendous, but I think England's major problem will be their snail paced batting. If the ODI format is to survive at all, England need to realise that 300+ will be the norm. Plodding along going for a score of 250 isn't going to win you anything in this T20 era.

  • on June 3, 2013, 10:56 GMT

    Never mind their fitness, both Broad and Finn urgently need a new tailor.

  • on June 3, 2013, 10:37 GMT

    Ashley Giles out.

    Choosing Rankin over Tremlett is bias at it's worse. Tremlett is in far better form and has far better statistics in List A cricket.

    My Nan is quicker than Woakes and Dernbach couldn't bowl two consecutive balls at the top of off stump if he tried.

    Woakes, Dernbach should be dropped.

    Tremlett, Harris should replace them.

    Hopefully Finn and Broad are fit but looks unlikely.

    Giles out.

  • trav29 on June 3, 2013, 10:32 GMT

    all the people making suggestions about dropping woakes or buttler etc etc seem to have forgotten we can only replace someone in the 15 for the CT due to injury now

    dernbach wasn't part of the CT squad anyway so a replacement for him wouldn't be required

    only places up for grabs seem to be broad or finn depending on whether they pass the fitness tests they are scheduled to have today I believe

  • bobmartin on June 3, 2013, 10:32 GMT

    England have already deservedly lost the ODI series v NZ, so whether the end result is 3-0 or 2-1 is irrelevent now. The major issues are the CT followed by the Ashes. My guess is that most, if not all, England supporters would be in favour of not risking Broad and Finn for the final ODI and even letting them miss the CT if it ensures their fitness for the Ashes. The final ODI would be an excellent opportunity to give some of the "fringe" players in the CT squad a run-out.. But knowing the less than adventurous nature of Flower, Giles and Cook, it's unlikley there will be any major changes.

  • Jagger on June 3, 2013, 10:26 GMT

    Seriously, does anyone really give England a chance to win a F50 tournament? Please! The only team other than New Zealand who hasn't won a World Cup lol.

  • jackthelad on June 3, 2013, 10:22 GMT

    England will resume their real bowling line-up and retain the Ashes both at home and away - and there is a simple reason for this: however stretched England become due to injuries, however shallow their replacement pool may be - it is still far better than Australia's. Over tenTest Matches, battled for a real cause, Australia are not even in the betting.('Betting' is maybe not a good word to use at this time ...

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 3, 2013, 10:22 GMT

    @ Kensohatter: ODIs for you are nothing more than "hit and giggle" cricket eh? Well, you should perhaps try explaining your favourite format (test cricket) to an American, or perhaps a Japanese or a Russian, but why speak to someone that far away? Closer home, you could try explaining test cricket to a Frenchman or a German and when you get to the part where you tell them that it lasts for 5 whole days and can at times result in 'neither side winning' the contest and all you get in return is an incredulous look if not outright guffaws, don't tell me I didn't tell you so.

    It is precisely this very attitude that some English fans have toward's ODIs that have prevented the English team from developing into a top notch ODI outfit. There are times when one feels that narcissism with regards to cricket is a uniquely English trait.

    Not everybody enjoys test cricket you know. There is a reason why the cricket World Cup is played in the 50 over format and not over 5 days.

  • on June 3, 2013, 10:22 GMT

    I wonder who made England favourite to win CT ? On current showing , I doubt they will go through Group stages ! India seems to be getting used to English conditions . Their batsman managed to chase SL score of 334 , last week ! I would put my money on India winning the CT ! Also remember India are current World ODI Champions and ranked No.1 !!

  • jackiethepen on June 3, 2013, 10:02 GMT

    Gagg - KP isn't playing due to injury. Or haven't you noticed?

  • StevieS on June 3, 2013, 9:35 GMT

    All this talk about 2 of Englands better players haven't been playing are forgetting that 2 off New Zealand better players (Vettori and Ryder) are also not playing.

  • on June 3, 2013, 9:30 GMT

    look you are all missing the point, the team that wins in England has the bowling attack for the conditions, South Africa, New Zealand and England with Broad and Bopara in the team are the favourites. The other 2 possibles are Australia and West Indies - watch and learn. NZ and England are most use to the conditions and the conditions suit SA, India and SL no show, Pakistan bowlers are always an unknown - watch and learn.

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 3, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    The trouble with England as an ODI outfit is the lack of flair they seem to perpetually suffer from. And this was especially true of earlier English sides where each player was about as generic as a door-knob. The current lot, barring K.P., Swanny, Morgan, Prior (and they don't even play him in ODIs, something that simply astounds me) and perhaps Finn, continue to lack the flair of say a Gilchrist or a Gayle or a Ponting or a Malinga or an Ajmal or a de Villers or a Kohli or a Dhoni.

    The best ODI nations in the world (i.e. nations that have won the World Cup more than once), have all had an abundance of flair in their ranks.

    For me, England are going to struggle to be a champion ODI side until they address this key issue.

  • FredJ000 on June 3, 2013, 9:14 GMT

    England weren't that good but New Zealand really were!

    I think the solution is simple. Drop Dernbach for Tredwell and put Onions or Tremlett into the squad as cover.

    I'd give Woakes one more shout as he's been OK but a bit unlucky. Luke Wright could replace him. We can get 6 overs out of either one with 4 from Root.

    Drop Buttler for Bairstow and give the Yorkshireman the gloves

  • on June 3, 2013, 9:12 GMT

    The wisest course of action for England is to give Broad and Finn a break ahead of the double Ashes and go for experience in the CT - Lancashire's Chapple and Worcestershire's Richardson. Tremlett is another option now that he is back and seems to have found form in Surrey's latest game.

  • trav29 on June 3, 2013, 9:03 GMT

    @naman gupta I would suggest you actualy know something about broad's performances in ODIs before saying things like that. his career figures compare with malinga in all categories and he has a better average and strike-rate as an ODI bowler than steyn

  • jackiethepen on June 3, 2013, 8:58 GMT

    Supporters pay good money and are then insulted when a team loses, Fluffykins? Is this cricket you are talking about? How far are we removed from the days when cricket stood for high standards of fairness and behaviour and you complain about attitude! What about the spirit of the game? In England we still applaud the opposition although in some countries that isn't the case. If the game becomes too partisan then supporters could end up following football into the mire. Cricket is by nature an up and down sport - as we County supporters know - England lost both tosses and are without two major bowlers. What should concern us are the replacements and our bowling stocks. All the batsmen were under scoreboard pressure except Trott who always bats the same innings unaffected by the match situation. England were beaten by a spectacular knock by Ireland in the World Cup. Are Ireland the better team?

  • LALITHKURUWITA on June 3, 2013, 8:46 GMT

    It is very disappointing the way Poms lost to Black Caps in England. I think Aussies are laughing. I hope it would be a different game when it comes to CT. Hope Poms will have Plan B against Aussies.

  • on June 3, 2013, 8:41 GMT

    Michael Holding said at the start of the game that the selection was flawed. We should be playing our best available bowlers, and Tredwell is clearly one - and he can bat. This apparent fear of diverting from the norm is what can cost England dear. "Thinking outside the box" is the expression that comes to mind, but I doublt that the selectors will have the courage. Luke Wright, Bopara and Tredwell can hardly be less effective than Woakes and Dernbach at the moment. That said, it's the longer game that is most important. Anderson needs resting until the main events.

  • Un_Citoyen_Indien on June 3, 2013, 8:37 GMT

    Injuries or no injuries, England have been the most consistent underachievers in the history of ODI cricket. I mean, it's hard to see how a so called 'top side' in world cricket has failed to win even a single World Cup even after ten editions of the premier ODI tournament.

    They simply lack the flair needed for this format and It's hard to see them go the distance this Champions Trophy.

  • Harlequin. on June 3, 2013, 8:28 GMT

    I'd say rest Finn for the Champions Trophy (we never had a hope in hell of winning it anyway!) and save him for the Ashes. Instead we should use the CT as a chance to see what Rankin can do against international quality batsmen, to give Meaker a bit of a run around, and to get the batsmen into some form. Eyes on the big prize - The Ashes.

  • on June 3, 2013, 8:27 GMT

    Is the problem really with the bowling? In the first game England made 227 only on a good wicket,Their batsman generally have struggled to take control as they really miss Pietersen who has the ability to collar the bowling.In fact even yesterday if Ronchi had not missed a couple of easy stumpings, they woulld not have made 200 even.The fact of the matter is that england do not have a good one day side, have not had one for ages .And Broad is more often bust than boom. But the larger worry is the ten tests and dependence on just a couple of bowlers. Australia have been plagued by injuries in the past and perhaps it is england"s turn now. Ramanujam sridhar

  • on June 3, 2013, 8:20 GMT

    Finn is a big loss, but losing broad won't make any difference. He is just an ordinary bowler, who is lucky to be in team above likes of finn, onions and tremblet.

  • venkatesh018 on June 3, 2013, 8:20 GMT

    England plays ODIs the way India plays Test matches... only because they are scheduled in the calendar. Cook, Flower & Co. will not be too unhappy not to reach the Champions Trophy knockouts, provided every player is fit and ready for the Ashes. They don't care about these NZ odis, their entire focus is on Test matches which in itself is not bad but why should they cheat the paying and watching public in the ground and on TV by playing these matches with deliberately under-strength sides.

  • Mitty2 on June 3, 2013, 8:11 GMT

    Ah my fellow Australians are out in force at the sign of English weakness... How it should be!

    @Lyndon, i don't think their depth is that bad, the selections are just terrible. However, with quality in the likes of meaker, woakes, wright, onions and harris, they are ALL more suited to the four/five day format and you can't see any of them really doing well in ODI's based on their techniques... So the ideal on selecting purely for ODI's is somewhat inhibited by the fact that the depth comes in the form of red ball specialists and not white ball specialists.

    The English shouldn't put woakes down, as said, he is quite clearly better in the longer form (just look at his figures!), however, their concern shouldn't be in the bowling, but the batting. For trott to have a strike rate of 100 when chasing 350... Is virtually pathetic. The top 3, whilst solid, look like they play for themselves and not for the team and purely cannot score fast enough. Without KP, England have no hope in hell.

  • itismenithin on June 3, 2013, 8:06 GMT

    time to remove all the England players from my fantasy league

  • Meety on June 3, 2013, 7:49 GMT

    @ landl47 - I was fascinated to know what you meant by "...Dernbach is the worst specialist bowler, statistically, in the entire history of ODI..." - after checking out the stats, I assume you mean by E/Rate. The only qualification is of bowlers to have bowled 1,000 ODI balls. I was sure there was a couple of Bangladeshi bowlers worse & maybe the off Affiliate stalwart - thanks for the chuckle, as I can't stand Dernbach, I really disliked the way he sledged a Kiwi tailender (McClenaghan?) in the NZ ODI series in NZ. I think he hit the tailender in the head was laughing about it & then seemed to walk around with his chest puffed out when he beat the bat a couple of times. He went straight to the bottom of the pile that day - IMO! @Lyndon McPaul - I think England have better bowling options in Tests than in ODIs. Bresnan is a better Test bowler than ODI. I think that they would be worried if something was to ever happen to Swann, as IMO, he holds the Test/ODI/T20 attacks together!

  • wnwn on June 3, 2013, 7:43 GMT

    If the weather stays as it is i don't think England has much hope in this tournament. It is a well known fact that the ball will swing a lot more in overcast conditions and the English bowlers are the best at doing this. When there is no cloud cover, the pitches become as flat as those in the subcontinent.

  • Fluffykins on June 3, 2013, 6:50 GMT

    Well done NZ much more up for the task, really disappointed with our attitude very poor and insulting to all supporters who paid money to see you and also the other side.

  • jonesy2 on June 3, 2013, 6:40 GMT

    wow, cook has to be the worst captain of all time, he has absolutely no idea. love this quote though haha "Clearly when you lose bowlers of the quality of Stuart and Finny it leaves a hole." the quality of broad and finn? you mean the poor quality? I don't get it, dernbach, woakes and bresnan have been doing a fine job keeping in line with that extremely poor quality of bowling you are missing cook.

  • sachin_vvsfan on June 3, 2013, 6:38 GMT

    If they were so much concerned about CT then why even arrange this pointless series against NZ at this time and risk injuring key players? If ashes series is paramount then they should have selected second rate players for CT and rest all main players. If some one comes good in CT then they can compete with main players in Ashes. I think ENG selectors are some what ruining their best chances of whitewashing a rapidly deteriorating Aussies(Test team).

  • on June 3, 2013, 6:04 GMT

    England will not risk losing thier best bowlers for the Ashes , and while Australia do have plenty in the fast bowling department ,thier batsmen have no answers to Swann and Panesar ,who are both more menacing than all the Indian spinners put together ,so Ashes advantage England...sorry Watson, this isnt T20, you don't stand a chance .

  • kensohatter on June 3, 2013, 5:57 GMT

    Why place emphasis on a outdated hit and giggle tournament? If I were an England selector id cut both Broad and Finn from the squad now and try and get some new bowlers blooded before the ashes. Australia will be praying they play cause the depth in Englands bowling is a massive concern. SA would have to go in favs but NZ could be the suprise packet.

  • GRVJPR on June 3, 2013, 5:54 GMT

    What about great depth of england that we keep hearing. They told us that they have bowling for next 20 years and they will dominate world cricket. Well, test ranking is already gone down and ODI performance is pathetic. Look at India, even with 7 players missing from World cup winning squad, they aren't crying for inexperience.

  • satishchandar on June 3, 2013, 5:43 GMT

    @landl47 : Well said mate.. Bopara and Tredwell couldn't do worse than Woakes/Jade.. At the same time, it makes me think why Samit was dropped.. He did play more handily than many others except for Morgan in the lower middle order and won some games too.. He might not be as agile as others on the field but very useful with the ball and affordable on the field.. England are trusting the likes o Baristows and Buttlers which is good but they need to bat with another proven hitter in the middle order like KP who can maintain tempo until the big hitters are settled and start to smack it around..

  • on June 3, 2013, 5:32 GMT

    Wow great to see English making excuses. Sound familiar story as you guys made fun of us when we lost in Aus and Eng last couple of seasons. England cannot win anything in ODI's and T20's, admit it. you guys have done nothing in these formats since they came into being. you can only win in tests and that too in English conditions. your 2-1 win in India was nothing more than a fluke. ODI's and T20's are not English's cup of tea and in my opinion England should quit ODI's and T20's and only play Tests and that too only Ashes as they only care about that urn. Least Indians don't brag about tests we only brag about ODI's and T20's where we have proved our supremacy many times. English stp making excuses and quit OID's and T20's.

  • Herbet on June 3, 2013, 5:27 GMT

    Would I take a first round exit from an ODI contest without Finn and Broad if it meant everyone was fit and well for the Ashes? I certainly would, every time. It will hopefully give the Aussies 2 weeks of practice swishing across the line on perfect batting pitches in wall to wall sunshine. Don't get used to it boys.

  • Jezinho on June 3, 2013, 5:17 GMT

    I agree with landl47. Dernbach may have a role to play in T20I games, but he is detrimental to England's chances in other formats in any game he plays. A Bopara or Luke Wright would have been far more effective. It was probably a 300-320 track yesterday. Dernbach and Woakes enabled the Kiwis to post a fabulous total that was always out of reach.

  • InfiniteWhite on June 3, 2013, 5:16 GMT

    Hey, they still have Monty, remember? Taking the leaf out of The Professor's book, they could try to use 2 spinners to restrict players from SA , WI and Australia and go back to 1 spinner when facing subcontinent countries.

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on June 3, 2013, 5:09 GMT

    Ha,ha England's CT plans ?? Wonder what those 'plans' were in the 1st place ?To put up a respectable show by not being knocked out losing all matches maybe. To be fair after the W/Wash by NZ it will be a morale boost for Eng if they conjure a win in one game somehow in their group considering there are 6-7 teams well above themselves in CT in ODI terms let alone posing a threat to top 4 S/F contenders SL ,Pak and NZ along with the favourites Aus .But on current form,don't see them eek out a win -:)

  • landl47 on June 3, 2013, 4:15 GMT

    It's not so much losing Broad and Finn, although that was a blow, as the replacements that are the problem. Woakes is a promising batsman but his bowling isn't up to international class yet . Dernbach is the worst specialist bowler, statistically, in the entire history of ODI cricket and why the selectors went back to him after he has proven time and again that he is not an international bowler defies understanding. Using Bopara would have given them a more economical bowler and a better batsman than either of them; using Tredwell would have given them a proven bowler and a change of pace to complement Swann.

    I really wonder what is going on here when someone who clearly isn't up to it is given so many chances. Bopara isn't a test player but his ODI record isn't bad-check out the Aus series in 2012. Tredwell is reliable and economical.

    Mind-boggling.

  • on June 3, 2013, 4:14 GMT

    It's a problem for England due to a lack of depth in their pace stocks. Australia could quite easily replace any one of their bowlers and still be condfident of their chances though were there injuries two 2 bowlers it might mean that they dip into their 'test only' bowlers such as Siddle and Pattinson (if they didnt want to rely on MJ).

  • on June 3, 2013, 4:14 GMT

    It's a problem for England due to a lack of depth in their pace stocks. Australia could quite easily replace any one of their bowlers and still be condfident of their chances though were there injuries two 2 bowlers it might mean that they dip into their 'test only' bowlers such as Siddle and Pattinson (if they didnt want to rely on MJ).

  • landl47 on June 3, 2013, 4:15 GMT

    It's not so much losing Broad and Finn, although that was a blow, as the replacements that are the problem. Woakes is a promising batsman but his bowling isn't up to international class yet . Dernbach is the worst specialist bowler, statistically, in the entire history of ODI cricket and why the selectors went back to him after he has proven time and again that he is not an international bowler defies understanding. Using Bopara would have given them a more economical bowler and a better batsman than either of them; using Tredwell would have given them a proven bowler and a change of pace to complement Swann.

    I really wonder what is going on here when someone who clearly isn't up to it is given so many chances. Bopara isn't a test player but his ODI record isn't bad-check out the Aus series in 2012. Tredwell is reliable and economical.

    Mind-boggling.

  • electric_loco_WAP4 on June 3, 2013, 5:09 GMT

    Ha,ha England's CT plans ?? Wonder what those 'plans' were in the 1st place ?To put up a respectable show by not being knocked out losing all matches maybe. To be fair after the W/Wash by NZ it will be a morale boost for Eng if they conjure a win in one game somehow in their group considering there are 6-7 teams well above themselves in CT in ODI terms let alone posing a threat to top 4 S/F contenders SL ,Pak and NZ along with the favourites Aus .But on current form,don't see them eek out a win -:)

  • InfiniteWhite on June 3, 2013, 5:16 GMT

    Hey, they still have Monty, remember? Taking the leaf out of The Professor's book, they could try to use 2 spinners to restrict players from SA , WI and Australia and go back to 1 spinner when facing subcontinent countries.

  • Jezinho on June 3, 2013, 5:17 GMT

    I agree with landl47. Dernbach may have a role to play in T20I games, but he is detrimental to England's chances in other formats in any game he plays. A Bopara or Luke Wright would have been far more effective. It was probably a 300-320 track yesterday. Dernbach and Woakes enabled the Kiwis to post a fabulous total that was always out of reach.

  • Herbet on June 3, 2013, 5:27 GMT

    Would I take a first round exit from an ODI contest without Finn and Broad if it meant everyone was fit and well for the Ashes? I certainly would, every time. It will hopefully give the Aussies 2 weeks of practice swishing across the line on perfect batting pitches in wall to wall sunshine. Don't get used to it boys.

  • on June 3, 2013, 5:32 GMT

    Wow great to see English making excuses. Sound familiar story as you guys made fun of us when we lost in Aus and Eng last couple of seasons. England cannot win anything in ODI's and T20's, admit it. you guys have done nothing in these formats since they came into being. you can only win in tests and that too in English conditions. your 2-1 win in India was nothing more than a fluke. ODI's and T20's are not English's cup of tea and in my opinion England should quit ODI's and T20's and only play Tests and that too only Ashes as they only care about that urn. Least Indians don't brag about tests we only brag about ODI's and T20's where we have proved our supremacy many times. English stp making excuses and quit OID's and T20's.

  • satishchandar on June 3, 2013, 5:43 GMT

    @landl47 : Well said mate.. Bopara and Tredwell couldn't do worse than Woakes/Jade.. At the same time, it makes me think why Samit was dropped.. He did play more handily than many others except for Morgan in the lower middle order and won some games too.. He might not be as agile as others on the field but very useful with the ball and affordable on the field.. England are trusting the likes o Baristows and Buttlers which is good but they need to bat with another proven hitter in the middle order like KP who can maintain tempo until the big hitters are settled and start to smack it around..

  • GRVJPR on June 3, 2013, 5:54 GMT

    What about great depth of england that we keep hearing. They told us that they have bowling for next 20 years and they will dominate world cricket. Well, test ranking is already gone down and ODI performance is pathetic. Look at India, even with 7 players missing from World cup winning squad, they aren't crying for inexperience.

  • kensohatter on June 3, 2013, 5:57 GMT

    Why place emphasis on a outdated hit and giggle tournament? If I were an England selector id cut both Broad and Finn from the squad now and try and get some new bowlers blooded before the ashes. Australia will be praying they play cause the depth in Englands bowling is a massive concern. SA would have to go in favs but NZ could be the suprise packet.