England v SA, Champions Trophy, semi-final, The Oval June 19, 2013

Kirsten accepts that South Africa choked

ESPNcricinfo staff
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In his final act as South Africa coach, Gary Kirsten did not shy away from the team's uncomfortable history of failing at pressure stages in major events, accepting they "choked" against England, a term he called "horrible", and that it does not reflect well on his time as coach.

The word has been associated with South Africa since the 1999 World Cup when they fell at the semi-final stage in an agonising tie against Australia. It was the same hurdle that proved too much this time as they were thrashed by seven wickets at The Oval, having crashed to 80 for 8 on their way to 175.

Before the match, AB de Villiers spoke of it being a chance to shed the tag which has haunted them for more than a decade but instead the outgoing coach has ensured it will remain firmly associated with them until at least the 2015 World Cup.

"I think we did choke in the game," Kirsten said. "It's an uncomfortable word but you've got to make yourself comfortable with it. It's a horrible word, it does get used, we've spoken about it, we are open about it.

"We let ourselves down. You've got to accept that's what it is. They bowled exceptionally well but that doesn't mean your batting line-up should be 80 for 8.

"If we had the secret recipe to turn it around, we would certainly have packaged it and be selling it. We give it our best shot in our preparation, we try different things. It's definitely a dark mist that hangs over South African cricket in knockout events.

"At some point we are going to have to try and cross the line. It's going to require some real charisma, some real guts and glory to get over the line. It might not be pretty but at some point we are going to have to do it. It is an unfortunate thing. It's not for lack of trying. It does require an enormous amount of resilience, maybe certain types of individuals who can do it for us."

"These guys play really good cricket year after year. At some point, you need to cross the line because people will continue looking at you and saying you can't do it. I don't think as individuals they get emotionally hijacked because they play brilliantly for other teams. It will require some really tough individuals to overcome it."

Kirsten did not hold back during his press conference, where he attended instead of de Villiers, and admitted the team's lack of global one-day silverware did not show his tenure in a good light despite his achievements in the Test arena.

"We haven't improved, he said. "That's where the question mark needs to come over me so maybe it's not a bad thing I am leaving. As a coach you always want to take the team forward. There are some good signs. We are playing some good one-day cricket but in events of this nature, we haven't gone forward.

"We haven't been consistent. That's maybe because we've explored quite a lot of combinations over the last few years. We've broadened our base. When you play in important tournaments like this maybe you get exposed. We've given it our best shot to try and overcome it and we haven't."

Dale Steyn was forced to sit out the semi-final with a groin injury - following a side problem earlier in the tournament - which meant South Africa were missing four senior players; Jacques Kallis ruled himself out before the event, Graeme Smith pulled out due an ankle injury and Morne Morkel flew home after the first game.

When it was suggested that Kallis left a particularly large hole to fill, after his personal decision not to play the tournament, Kirsten said that the team could not rely on always having someone who is in the latter stage of his career.

"In high pressure games, you want your most experienced players," Kirsten said. "But at the same time they can have a lot of scarring from past events. South African cricket has got to move past Jacques Kallis.

"We've got to start finding other players, which I think we have. Our strength was our batting line-up and we focused our attention on the middle order. Bowling-wise, we've explored the talent. There is still more out there. At some point you need to find some stability."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    That wasn't a choke. It was an implosion. Without Steyn and Morkel we looked toothless, but the surprise failure was the batting. Jimmie A bowled two corkers to take out the openers, but the rest fell on their swords. With the exception of Petersen, Miller and Kleinveldt (surprisingly) there was no composure at all. That is a mindset problem and that falls on the coach and the captain. I'm not convinced about AB as a batsman, keeper and captain. He's world class at one out of three. Back to the drawing board.

    That said, England piled on the pressure and they bowled brilliantly. We were totally outplayed and destroyed.

  • POSTED BY doubledeckerbaas on | June 20, 2013, 5:12 GMT

    As an SA fan I think it's a discredit to your opposition to keep using the term choke. England completely outplayed SA and have beaten them on most occasions in ODI's in the last few years. England had one or two key players missing but SA had the guts of the team missing. England were big favourites and it was a good toss to win too. SA need to lose the term choke and pick up the notion that the side is not that good, and hasn't been getting good ODI or 20/20 results for the last few years.

  • POSTED BY on | June 23, 2013, 21:14 GMT

    What would one say when England lost the finals against India, were England too got choked. This time I felt South Africa was clearly missing good genuine opener who can give them good start. In bowling their main bowlers were injured at a knock out stage which was unfortunate. Rain help SA a little bit against West Indies, if not WI would have qualified for semis. Over all SA won only 2 games and lost 2 one in league and in semis. I feel SA must quickly find a solution for opening slot in batting. That is the only area they are having problem. Whether Kristen agrees that SA choked at bigger stage is matter of time. SA will win a major tournament if they sort all the areas like having a good openers, play better against spinning bowling. Surprisingly they were poor in form against swing bowling as well. With so many flaws in batting expect them to win against in form England side is not that easy. I hope SA will surely be improving in coming days. I wish them all the best

  • POSTED BY TommytuckerSaffa on | June 22, 2013, 14:18 GMT

    We are bunch of chockers in competitions. No doubting that. But this wasn't a choke we were outplayed by a much better team. I think AB should lose the captaincy and give the gloves to de Kock. AB is a nice guy but to me doesnt have the steel needed to be captain. Back to the drawing board...again.

  • POSTED BY on | June 22, 2013, 4:26 GMT

    SA batting did never deserve to the lineup they included. SA should have a Captain Like MS Dhoni who Stand tall in all such crunch situations. Why on earth Peterson came down as one down in this batting line up. One down should have been FAF /Duminy or AB himself as a captain like MS would have done in a similar match situation in order to take the team forward. Before next world cup SA should find a solid captain who can lead from front.

  • POSTED BY on | June 22, 2013, 3:50 GMT

    India faced similar "choking" issues against Pakistan when the two nations started cricket relationship in the late 1970s after many years. Asif Iqbal and company (Imran Khan later) were a handful for the lethargic Indians. It took a new breed of Indian cricketers to have the self-belief and confidence to get the monkey off their backs. The contemporary young Indians have this in ample measure which is demonstrated by their performance on the field. South Africa have to deal this problem in their own way. However, the sooner they devise a way out the better.

  • POSTED BY Wallaroo on | June 22, 2013, 2:29 GMT

    While I agree with most that in this instance the proteas didn't choke perse they have and do choke in most WC / high pressure games. The reason for saying perse is that in this particular game if one considers how they played from the onset they would have choked f they had batted second.

    The only way the proteas are ever going to overcome this mantle is to accept that they do fall prey to a nervous disposition which forces them to choke. If the proteas are to reach their potential and become known as greats they need to adopt a "not going down without a fight mentality" for every game and opposition faced. This requires letting go of the save face (conservative) mentality which most often results in lose face.

  • POSTED BY Crux777 on | June 21, 2013, 23:14 GMT

    Get Gibbs to coach them . He has the right mental attitude. Please don't ever bring Smith into the game . He only has one style of batting and they catch him out on it always . Duminy is history .

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 17:31 GMT

    It was a mistake not to appoint Johan Botha as captain of the ODI team a year ago.

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 16:31 GMT

    The problem with South Africa is that their batting is letting them down. After Greame Smith left as opener, they were not able to find good player as opener. That is the first problem, SA know the conditions against England but they were not able to handle Anderson. If they could have batted little patiently against him then they would surely would have put the good total on board. This match I do not think that was choked one, two players made the difference one is Kallis and then Dale Steyn. One more thing is that De Villiers is feeling pressure when given captaincy. The two semi final pitches weren't that great. Both the games were one sided that tells that team which won the toss have managed to win in the end. Let us see how finals would be. After having so many good players in the team SA was on the losing side in the end. Coaching staff too was top one and then also not able to win it is disappointing.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    That wasn't a choke. It was an implosion. Without Steyn and Morkel we looked toothless, but the surprise failure was the batting. Jimmie A bowled two corkers to take out the openers, but the rest fell on their swords. With the exception of Petersen, Miller and Kleinveldt (surprisingly) there was no composure at all. That is a mindset problem and that falls on the coach and the captain. I'm not convinced about AB as a batsman, keeper and captain. He's world class at one out of three. Back to the drawing board.

    That said, England piled on the pressure and they bowled brilliantly. We were totally outplayed and destroyed.

  • POSTED BY doubledeckerbaas on | June 20, 2013, 5:12 GMT

    As an SA fan I think it's a discredit to your opposition to keep using the term choke. England completely outplayed SA and have beaten them on most occasions in ODI's in the last few years. England had one or two key players missing but SA had the guts of the team missing. England were big favourites and it was a good toss to win too. SA need to lose the term choke and pick up the notion that the side is not that good, and hasn't been getting good ODI or 20/20 results for the last few years.

  • POSTED BY on | June 23, 2013, 21:14 GMT

    What would one say when England lost the finals against India, were England too got choked. This time I felt South Africa was clearly missing good genuine opener who can give them good start. In bowling their main bowlers were injured at a knock out stage which was unfortunate. Rain help SA a little bit against West Indies, if not WI would have qualified for semis. Over all SA won only 2 games and lost 2 one in league and in semis. I feel SA must quickly find a solution for opening slot in batting. That is the only area they are having problem. Whether Kristen agrees that SA choked at bigger stage is matter of time. SA will win a major tournament if they sort all the areas like having a good openers, play better against spinning bowling. Surprisingly they were poor in form against swing bowling as well. With so many flaws in batting expect them to win against in form England side is not that easy. I hope SA will surely be improving in coming days. I wish them all the best

  • POSTED BY TommytuckerSaffa on | June 22, 2013, 14:18 GMT

    We are bunch of chockers in competitions. No doubting that. But this wasn't a choke we were outplayed by a much better team. I think AB should lose the captaincy and give the gloves to de Kock. AB is a nice guy but to me doesnt have the steel needed to be captain. Back to the drawing board...again.

  • POSTED BY on | June 22, 2013, 4:26 GMT

    SA batting did never deserve to the lineup they included. SA should have a Captain Like MS Dhoni who Stand tall in all such crunch situations. Why on earth Peterson came down as one down in this batting line up. One down should have been FAF /Duminy or AB himself as a captain like MS would have done in a similar match situation in order to take the team forward. Before next world cup SA should find a solid captain who can lead from front.

  • POSTED BY on | June 22, 2013, 3:50 GMT

    India faced similar "choking" issues against Pakistan when the two nations started cricket relationship in the late 1970s after many years. Asif Iqbal and company (Imran Khan later) were a handful for the lethargic Indians. It took a new breed of Indian cricketers to have the self-belief and confidence to get the monkey off their backs. The contemporary young Indians have this in ample measure which is demonstrated by their performance on the field. South Africa have to deal this problem in their own way. However, the sooner they devise a way out the better.

  • POSTED BY Wallaroo on | June 22, 2013, 2:29 GMT

    While I agree with most that in this instance the proteas didn't choke perse they have and do choke in most WC / high pressure games. The reason for saying perse is that in this particular game if one considers how they played from the onset they would have choked f they had batted second.

    The only way the proteas are ever going to overcome this mantle is to accept that they do fall prey to a nervous disposition which forces them to choke. If the proteas are to reach their potential and become known as greats they need to adopt a "not going down without a fight mentality" for every game and opposition faced. This requires letting go of the save face (conservative) mentality which most often results in lose face.

  • POSTED BY Crux777 on | June 21, 2013, 23:14 GMT

    Get Gibbs to coach them . He has the right mental attitude. Please don't ever bring Smith into the game . He only has one style of batting and they catch him out on it always . Duminy is history .

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 17:31 GMT

    It was a mistake not to appoint Johan Botha as captain of the ODI team a year ago.

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 16:31 GMT

    The problem with South Africa is that their batting is letting them down. After Greame Smith left as opener, they were not able to find good player as opener. That is the first problem, SA know the conditions against England but they were not able to handle Anderson. If they could have batted little patiently against him then they would surely would have put the good total on board. This match I do not think that was choked one, two players made the difference one is Kallis and then Dale Steyn. One more thing is that De Villiers is feeling pressure when given captaincy. The two semi final pitches weren't that great. Both the games were one sided that tells that team which won the toss have managed to win in the end. Let us see how finals would be. After having so many good players in the team SA was on the losing side in the end. Coaching staff too was top one and then also not able to win it is disappointing.

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 14:21 GMT

    I think we choked against New Zealand last world cup, where we were in a position to win and threw it away against a side we should have beaten, but this was just a poor batting display against a good bowling attack with the ball doing a bit. We missed Kallis badly, or a guy like trott who stops the flow of wickets.

    Sri Lanka scored just about the same in the other semi-final, no-one calls them chokers. We're a good side, but we're not the best ODI side at the moment, so we cant expect to win and then call our team chokers if we dont.

    Still considering the talent we have, its not good enough. The interview pretty much says it all about Gary Kirsten, the man is a legend, and I wish him all the best.

  • POSTED BY on | June 21, 2013, 11:17 GMT

    SA are a good side, their batting and bowling line up can scare players, what they lack is imagination and creativity. They are predictable, Miller, Ingram, Morris and McClaren are good! I think SA need to rotate their player in accordance to who they come up against just like football/soccer teams do. I think SA could have beat England, maybe they need to take courses in mental preparation?

  • POSTED BY Newlandsfaithful on | June 21, 2013, 11:17 GMT

    Wasn't a choke. SA was poor in the ODIs at home against NZ, scraped through against Pakistan at home and was poor in the Champion's League. Before that they have been poor as well against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. SA just can't cut it at the ODI top level. There is something completely wrong in the think tank. Has been for a long time. Kirsten and the CSA fraternity are just in denial. Will fail again in upcoming competitions. Will fail in next world cup. The real choke is in the boardroom where focus needs to put on making SA competitive at ODI level. As is, SA will not win any ICC tournament in the foreseable future.

  • POSTED BY Biohazard7279 on | June 21, 2013, 10:49 GMT

    Let's be honest, many teams would've gone down the same way missing an opening batsman, stalwart number 3 and their opening bowlers. Imagine England without Cook, Trott, Anderson and Finn. India without Dhawan, Kohli, Kumar and Yadav. Sri Lanka without Dilshan, Sangakkara, Kulasekara and Malinga

    It's a lot easier to understand the huge hole in the South African side. I doubt any other side missing 4 of their best players would've progressed through to the final.

  • POSTED BY floorwalker007 on | June 21, 2013, 9:45 GMT

    We need a hard man in the team. Much like Gary Kirsten himself and like Kallis has been. A go to man that leads by example.

    We need to accept that AB is not the right captain (I think I actually saw him give a rueful smile after going out with a waste of a shot - compared to the Steve Waugh's where you'd actually feel their pain at failing through the screen).

    I think the right man (tough guy) for the job is Faf if it's not too late already and he's settled into the lax team spirit that seems to be showing. As much as we'd like to think that the teams enjoyment of the game will lead to success it won't, success leads to enjoyment.

    That being said a lot of players in the team are wet behind the ears which doesn't equate to the good tally of games they have played in a Protea shirt.

  • POSTED BY binrasheed on | June 21, 2013, 7:46 GMT

    I don't know whether it is a choke or not but SA cricket team should admit that they are very much predictible in world tounaments and specially in the final stages. Styne and Morkel should not be an excuse as india is performing very well with out tendulkar, sehwag, gambhir and co. They are no.1 in test but need to re think about their formets before the next 50 over wc or the next years T20 wc.

  • POSTED BY dil1986 on | June 20, 2013, 23:00 GMT

    heres my team for the upcoming sri lanka tour. Smith, Amla, Ingram, Kallis, Devilliers, Duminy, Miller, Mclaren/Filander/Morris, Robie, Steyn, M.Morkel.

  • POSTED BY Robster1 on | June 20, 2013, 20:24 GMT

    Add in Kallis, Smith, Steyn, Morkel, Philander and Abbott and SA look a vastly different side. That said, they were well beaten on the day.

  • POSTED BY whoster on | June 20, 2013, 20:03 GMT

    I agree with @geoffbrown. England, and especially Anderson, bowled brilliantly in helpful conditions. SA's batting was pretty poor also, but I think this was down to playing a strong England side without several integral players - and with the replacements not being up to it. Anyway, if SA really were chokers, they wouldn't be no.1 Test side in the world. I don't think Gary Kirsten's got this right, and if I were an England or SA player, I'd feel pretty insulted.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 19:08 GMT

    Chokers or not... I think the best 2 sides (purely based on the performance in the CT 2013) in the tournament are in the final right now. So losing to a worthy opponent is a little far fetched from choking. Problem with SAF is that now everytime they lose a big game - there are many memories that resurface.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 18:26 GMT

    AB and Amla are number 1 & 2 in the world but neither had a great innings in the tournament. A couple of 100s were needed by the top order and may have made the difference.

    The English bowlers were great after winning the toss and maybe a proper opening in Alviro was required.

    SA were not good enough - simple !!

  • POSTED BY kahvas on | June 20, 2013, 17:09 GMT

    Choke, haha. Sorry it wasnt a choke and Saf did not deserve to be in the finals w/ only 2 performing players out of the lot. They were chokers when they had gibbs, smith, etc because they won till the end then choked

  • POSTED BY dil1986 on | June 20, 2013, 15:35 GMT

    please make graeme smith the captain of the ODI side as well. he is the perfect leader to utilize the talent they' ve got at the right times. poor shot selections, poor batting order and poor bowling changes caused us the match. Smith has to take over the captaincy at least till the end of the 2015 WC. and please please players like steyn & Morkal i think you should consider about the physical fitness as well before doing too much in the IPL.

  • POSTED BY android_user on | June 20, 2013, 11:59 GMT

    It's one thing not to shy away from the term, "choke", but totally another thing to seek it out and attribute it to every single loss in a knockout tournament. I love Kirsten but it seemed needless to trott out the term to be used again when it feels more like SA were knocked back very early on in favourable bowling conditions and never managed to recover enough to post a decent total. it's not as though they were faced with a gettable run chase and fell apart under the pressure. That would have been a choke. England simply outplayed them.

  • POSTED BY Aussie_in_SAF on | June 20, 2013, 11:51 GMT

    There's a difference between being outplayed and choking. Yesterday South Africa were outplayed by some very good bowling. I don't believe they choked, they just weren't good enough given the opposition.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 11:24 GMT

    @Siddharth Baba. I think the word choke should be defined and you seem to define it well. The media and commentators seem to run to this word to sensationalise things. You're also spot on with the "professional" statement.

    Kirsten tried his best but he needed talent and time to get this team to an international level. The inconsistency from all the fringe players has place emmense pressure on the regular performers. Alviro was a better option to open. He's an accomplished player and has the experience playing in England. Run outs was a major factor in this tournament. SA looked like a bunch of school boy cricketers with running between wickets, fielding the ball and throwing to the wrong end, poor catching. De villiers isnt a keeper. He doesn't get in a good position to remove the bails or for catches (in his defense throws are so poor). SA need consistency or they gona be the next pakistan. Morris and surprisingly Mclaren were revelations. Y take players to warm the bench

  • POSTED BY denwarlo70 on | June 20, 2013, 11:03 GMT

    I'm a Sri Lankan cricket fan. Everyone calls SA chokers which I think is a bit harsh. yes, they lose when it matters but they're a quality side. Personally, I think AB isa good player but not skipper stuff. He should do away with the gloves too. As for our boys, today is an all important match for us, the semi's with India and we need to somehow win this, go to the finals and win. I'm sick and tired of our team been the brides maid at all major ICC tournaments lately (2007 CWC, 2011 CWC, WT20/12) etc., Come on boys, show us what you've really got....

  • POSTED BY Longhairrocks on | June 20, 2013, 10:47 GMT

    ODI cricket is not a a measure of a good or great side, test cricket is the yardstick. Having said that and I realise it is probably not a popular point of view but it could be South Africa were simply outplayed by England.

  • POSTED BY THE_MIZ on | June 20, 2013, 10:37 GMT

    @geoffbrown, I agree with you. This side is just not good enough. However, no matter what the conditions or missing players, to have some of the top batsmen in the world and be 80-8 in a crunch game (where have we seen that before?) speaks of a team unable to handle pressure. ! Credit to England, but to be outplayed that badly, despite being not too inferior to England means THEY CHOKED!

  • POSTED BY android_user on | June 20, 2013, 10:04 GMT

    please bring back Graeme Smith as the Captain. AB still needs to learn lot of things. by being around with Smith will help him a lot to learn. or it's time to give up on gloves and let young De cock have a go at it.

  • POSTED BY John-Orford on | June 20, 2013, 9:24 GMT

    I have doubts about Graeme Smith as captain - though certainly not as batsman - and the only explanation that is seldom given for all these strange failures is something in the captaincy. For me, Hashim Amla, a remarkable man as well as cricketer, would be the one to steady this fine team and bring them the results they deserve.

  • POSTED BY GlobalCricketLover on | June 20, 2013, 9:09 GMT

    I think this defeat reveals different lessons. SA should look at mental capabilities in additional to cricket skills. For example, JP looked terribly out of place in 2011 SF and he wasn't looking comfortable in this match as well. Doesnt matter how many runs he scores in other matches, you need players who has the stomach to face the situation. They should have gone with someone more 'gutsy' even if that player has slightly lower skills. I am fine with people getting out for ducks, that happens to everyone, but no point in going to a battle with people who do not have the stomach for it - that's inviting trouble.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 8:52 GMT

    Under Gary, India were a very strong test side, a not so strong (but still good) ODI side, despite winning the world cup which was knocked out of CT 2009, and a poor T20 side which failed miserably in world tournaments. Here it is something similar with SA getting knocked out of T20 world cup, failing miserably in CT semifinal despite losing all its big names, and an incredible test side. So the C word doesn't need to be brought up just because he is coaching SA. Overall Gary Kirsten: brilliant coach overall with some very minor flaws.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 8:42 GMT

    Geoff Brown I completely agree, it is time to say "we are not good enough" and to work on that. There are far too many passengers in a side for a tournament such as this, Faf, JP were short of game time and match fitness, Colin Ingrams stats belie his lack of technique, what happened to Alviro, a recognised opener already making boatloads of runs in the UK, Lopsy is clearly passed his sell by, date the questions go on and on. It seems that we left some talent back in SA. I am a huge AB fan but he has not impressed as a captain, but where is the leadership? Even the Sky commentators have been left bemused by some of his decisions. CSA owes SA a lot, we have spent our emotional capital!!

  • POSTED BY Tribal_Cricket on | June 20, 2013, 8:37 GMT

    I hope that next time a tournament takes place, SA are not called favorites by the so called experts. A team which has been choking for over 20 years can not be expected to be favorites in a tournament since their departure is almost certain. SA fans are also like the SA team, they are super confident at the beginning of the tournament but they themselves don't expect SA to win in the knockouts. But this time there is an advantage for them, they can blame their losses because some players didn't play or even better blame IPL. Sad.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 8:32 GMT

    SA team without Smith, Kallis, Steyn and Morkel can definitely be described as a second string team, atleast for now. You cant avoid injuries but Kallis playing the two month long IPL and skipping national duty...well....surprised why nobody so far has questioned this....being a great does pay!!!

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 8:05 GMT

    GARY can't see you there...you are a terrific coach ....south africa team is not the team who knows you better.... a fan from India....

  • POSTED BY Haleos on | June 20, 2013, 8:04 GMT

    Mr Kirsten - you say you haven't been consistent. But you have. You get consistently kicked out of knockouts. Pakistan team showed similar consistency in batting. In fact they do it all the time.

  • POSTED BY rajaram1105 on | June 20, 2013, 7:53 GMT

    I was having a high hope that SA will do well yesterday. I also liked the way AB took the word "choke" head on and not shying away. Such a brilliant team with great players. I notice when Hashim is not scoring, somehow SA is battling against England. A good fight after the fall of 8th wicket. Well done to England. Best luck to SA in their next outing. Gary should hold his head high despite yesterday's loss.

  • POSTED BY Namcricket on | June 20, 2013, 7:51 GMT

    Not so much chocking, as being throttled

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 7:46 GMT

    i dont think there is so called term 'choke' in any sport. its a media creation & unfortunately bieng sold for & exploited by opposition teams. as for this match give credit to england, they literally demolished SA. devillers said-luck played part in their qualifying for SF & ironically few of their batsman got out to freak dismissals. To me they dint desrve 2 qualify, WI did. it was a boring SF.

  • POSTED BY Sir_Ivor on | June 20, 2013, 7:42 GMT

    I am of the opinion that England won because they batted first. It is as simple as that. South Africa has been just unlucky in the major ODI tournaments from the time the came back in 92 to the international fold. So the word 'choke' is really just a word todescribe that unfortunate state of a team.The way England's bowling went against Sri Lanka is an indication of how they could go when the elements do not favour them.It is just as well that they win this edition of the Champions Trophy since it is the last one.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 7:33 GMT

    Definitely not Gary's fault - he is a brillian coach. India performed with / for him in all areas. We don't lack the skills but we seem to lack the passionate and hardened cricketers we had in the nineties (McMillan, Symcox, Rhodes, Richardson, Zulu, Fanie de Villiers etc.) - only Kallis is left from that Era. They were guys that just would not lie down and would give it back to the opposition in every way. I would rather have tough cricketers in our side with less skill than wimps who want to be nice all the time.

  • POSTED BY schathuranga on | June 20, 2013, 7:21 GMT

    the secret is england not contributed much to IPL.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 7:14 GMT

    It may be too late to say this . But one thing I would like to say here is " No doubt , Kallis is one of the greats to play this game. Smith, Steyn and Morkel are forced to sit out of this tournament . But Kallis decided to withdraw himself . You can opt to sit of any tournament if you feel you are personally not fit. But when you can play in IPL , you will be expected to play CT too. I am an Indian. I am sure any Indians wont like to see Kallis preferring IPL over CT or club over country. I wont even question if this is a normal bilateral series he decided to skip. But this is a global tournament and deciding to skip this is highly questionable " .

  • POSTED BY AAjmani on | June 20, 2013, 7:11 GMT

    A world class bowling unit totally outplayed an average team - That is not choke. England were simply superior and SA were average. Their is too much dependency on Amla and AB and if both fail, more often than not SA will not do well. The fact is SA are not a force in short formats, they were lucky to reach the SF. But notwithstadning their form in shorter formats, they are a world class test team and a dream team for any cricket lover. Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Kallis, Smith, AB, Amla, DuPlessis are at their bext in the longer format which matters the most. Can't wait for their test series to begin.

  • POSTED BY STEYNOHOLIC on | June 20, 2013, 7:03 GMT

    @Ferry Imaginative - This is not our test team - FAR FROM IT! Just take a look at the players who played(Don't need to be a genius to figure that one out!) Also, the Aussies that dominated cricket for so long, if I would hazard a guess, played mostly with the same team in both Test & ODI format - please correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, they dominated both formats - unfortunately, these days our (SA) Test personnel differs vastly from our ODI one.

  • POSTED BY AltafPatel on | June 20, 2013, 6:37 GMT

    @sidganesh yes correct. and same applies to Kallis as well. Steyn and Kallist get injured before IPL and dont play ODIs against Pak, then play full 16 matches in IPL, and then again get injured before CT.

  • POSTED BY AltafPatel on | June 20, 2013, 6:35 GMT

    they were outplayed by allround performance of England, nothing else.

  • POSTED BY crick_sucks on | June 20, 2013, 6:30 GMT

    Gary come back to India. We need you and will give you the results to match your coaching. SA wasted you.

  • POSTED BY Naresh28 on | June 20, 2013, 6:29 GMT

    SA should not worry - this happens to all teams even Australia have had it. It's not that you choked. There were several factors:- injuries, withdrawals,a transition, the TOSS,home advantage etc. It even happened to India when they last toured England for a test. There is no doubt that Anderson and Steyn are the two best bowlers in world today. Sometimes you win some and lose some. The day did not belong to you guys. No doubt ENgland are on the top of their game.Their batting and particularly their bowling is fantastic.CHOKING is more referred to in the last moments of the game.

  • POSTED BY twistatwistaa on | June 20, 2013, 6:26 GMT

    most dissapointing was way the AB devilliers got out not just in this match but also against india, he threw away his wicket on both the occasions , lots and lots of talent in africa but they need to play more cricket and wonder why philander never plays despite of him being one of the best africas bowler ,if he will only play test than there are very few test matches and his talent would b completely wasted

  • POSTED BY TheCricketeer on | June 20, 2013, 6:22 GMT

    I dont't know - there is no denying the choking tag but I am not sure about where the good one day cricket has been played in the last year or two. Overall South Africa have been abysmal in ODI cricket for 12 to 15 months now. They have been saved by the odd amazing batting performance from Amla and De Villiers but apart from that I have seen no consistency in batting or bowling performances and strategically AB is all over the place. Nobody knows what to do next. As I said there can be no denying that yesterdays batting performance was the pressure telling and the choke word is appropriate but someone has to step up and say we have gone backwards fast with AB at the helm. I really wish he pass on the captaincy to Faf.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 6:16 GMT

    It seems to me that the South Africans themseleves are giving more importance to this word than the others. In other words Kirsteen, devilieerss and company are publicising this word more than the rest of the world, atleast presently.

    Be done with it. Sometimes a country has a phase which can last for a few decades. So stop ths rubbish Gary, and move on

  • POSTED BY cosmos_kapil on | June 20, 2013, 6:13 GMT

    Why Albie is sidelines by SA? I think he will be much better than Morris. Sending Peterson at one down when batting first was also beyond thought. Alright he be used as a pinch hitter in chasing when you need to chase a big score, but after the fall of 1st wkt. in cheep there was no need to send him, instead of him AB should've come and handle the experience of Anderson. If he had been not promoted yesterday, there remains a good batsmen with tail and then SA could pass 200+. AB poor captaincy this time. However Morris can be used sometimes as a pinch hitter, because at the bottom most of time he's useless with bat.

  • POSTED BY ZuluDave on | June 20, 2013, 6:01 GMT

    I support South Africa but this choker tag won't go away. It has been pointed out that SA didn't really choke in this last match, they just never got started. No matter, big tournament, poor result, situation normal.

    If you look at just this year SA have played 13 ODI's and won just 6 of them, with 1 tie. That is not the form of a good team. Their ODI record is poor and has been for a while. 2012 was a good year for them but again they did not dominate, winning 8 out of 13 matches.

    The Test team is a powerhouse and the results are very strong, but the ODI team lacks the depth and experience of the test team. Do you remember those days when the opposite was true, when Gibbs and Smith could launch a full assault on the opening bowlers, when Zulu could smash 50 off the last 3 overs single handed, when deVilliers, Pollock et al could strangle the runs flow at the end ? Great in the short form of the game was the opinion at the time but lacking depth in the Test arena. How times change.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 6:01 GMT

    Can the media please coin another term for this performance because to call it choking too simplistic.Must every defeat we face be labeled as a choke because this team will certainly lose some games and I agree with Selwin Powel that we were never in a winning position to throw it away in the first place.Kirsten acknowledgement will help us move forward as some have said. The facts are this was an inexperienced team rocked by injuries. England were a better team on the day. If semi-finals and finals were played over two legs S.A would have certainly won their fair share of tournaments because they are exceptional on average.We must focus on our strengths as a nation which we showed the world a glimpse of in the greatest ODI ever played, the 438 game against the aussies. Go S.A Go

  • POSTED BY 5udh33r on | June 20, 2013, 5:53 GMT

    well , let me tell you one thing Mr.Kirsten , South Africa always do!!!

  • POSTED BY NP_NY on | June 20, 2013, 5:45 GMT

    @Cyril_Knight: You are probably right. The pressure levels can be different in international cricket than in the IPL. In that case, I think it is a big problem for SA because, if India with their billion cricket crazy fans can handle pressure, SA should be able to do it easily.

  • POSTED BY Rhygwyn on | June 20, 2013, 5:41 GMT

    England was definitely the better team but SA did "choke" in the sense that they UNDERperformed in a knockout game again. Winning the toss was 80% of winning the game but no matter how good the bowling 80/8 is your team freaking out. If we scored 250+ and England won it would be more palatable because batting first always put us way behind the score.

  • POSTED BY sidganesh on | June 20, 2013, 5:17 GMT

    It beats me how CSA allowed Steyn to play in the IPL! He played his heart out and was easily the best bowler but in the process was burnt out. It is ridiculous that he was available for an inconsequential domestic event whilst being injured for the most important tournament after the World Cup.

  • POSTED BY original818 on | June 20, 2013, 5:10 GMT

    Well Done! It was about time some looked at the elephant in the room. Not only did Gary stare it down but put a spotlight over it. The first step of fighting your demons is to first acknowledge them. SA has had far too much talent to never have won any marquee tournament ever. The journey begins......

  • POSTED BY sharidas on | June 20, 2013, 4:56 GMT

    Kirsten is not leaving the SA Coach job as a failure.....in fact the very word that he used " i think we did choke" is the admission that will take SA forward in future. It is always best to understand ones weaknesses to help correct it !

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 4:41 GMT

    you don't win games by bicycling in Amsterdam and climbing the alps.. as simple as that...

  • POSTED BY DC75 on | June 20, 2013, 3:21 GMT

    Agree with Kirsten's assessment that he could not improve the SA one day team. He did that with Indian team, both Test and One day teams and also with probably lesser talented resources, on that front, probably he failed, but still he is a great coach, you cannot take two teams to No.1 position and also win a World Cup without being very very good.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 3:11 GMT

    One of the BEST coach we have in cricket ..... SUCH A GENTLEMAN

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 3:04 GMT

    To choke you have to at least see or be within range of the winning line , in this case South Africa were never close to the winning line they lost the toss and batted ineptly , Miller and Kleinveldt apart . So just bad luck in my opinion with injuries too.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 3:01 GMT

    SA misses a man like DHONI ...

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 2:01 GMT

    No question they choked. And Kirsten said the word had been bandied about - I would say they obsess about it and have done for ages. Just STOP USING the term, SA, and get on with it! Place a ban on the word, dont dwell on it, and move forwards. Some say well down Kirsten for saying it as it is, I see that perspective but I say from this day on dont even utter the word, its just a state of mind. Play your normal game each and every game, the NOW is NOW and not the PAST.

  • POSTED BY klusenercronje on | June 20, 2013, 0:59 GMT

    I agree that they were completely outplayed today but still the mental pressure of loosing in big occasions was there.We can say that it has now become a phobia for them.They should have been patient for first 10 overs when the ball was swinging.They are the most inflexible team we have seen,can't adapt to changing situations.After loosing this one the frustration has deepened more.Now,what they need to do is find a strong captain from the domestic level who can lead them by example and take the pressure off others.AB is a good player but i feel he doesn't have captaincy qualities and it is also affecting his batting. GL for future games!

  • POSTED BY goldeneraaus on | June 20, 2013, 0:37 GMT

    This is ridiculous SA lost Kallis and Smith before they could plan for their absence, same for Steyn and Morkel, so ofcourse they were going to struggle..any team would without their BEST 4 players.. this has nothing to do with choking.. SA trying to "attack the problem" head on saying the word choke but its not choking when you get outplayed by a stronger team.. they were lucky to even qualify! Rare poor judgement from Kirsten here.

  • POSTED BY on | June 20, 2013, 0:26 GMT

    Well Played England..i like Kirsten straightforwardness

  • POSTED BY kalyanbk on | June 19, 2013, 23:34 GMT

    I have to agree with Jan that the toss was perhaps more crucial than it ought to be. I know that SA have choked in various tournaments. However I just feel that it was not that case today. There was no quirk in weather or rules. Sometimes one team has to lose and today South Africa had an off day. They were probably not helped by the absence of their key players and by losing the toss.

  • POSTED BY Chris_P on | June 19, 2013, 23:16 GMT

    @poms_have_short_memories, We probably have to disagree on this. The Boks have not shown great ODI form even when those guys played. The Kiwis beat them in their own back yard. That said, they have focussed on the real cricket & are where they should be. Kallis & Smith won't be around too much longer in this format anyway & Steyn, as has been pointed out, has never been a major force in one dayers. But agree with you on how well England played.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 23:01 GMT

    Still I love this team and really don't know why they don't perform on big stage. AB, Amla, Steyn needs to take the responsibility. They have to play like its now or never. Apply yourself.. kill the time on the crease, last 10/20 overs are yours.

  • POSTED BY Cover_drive_55 on | June 19, 2013, 22:29 GMT

    Agree to SinSpider and Kapil_Choudhary. Choking here means underperforming in a knock out stage of Major tournament due to big game pressure. And Kirsten is spot on. The first step for solving a problem is to acknowledge it.

    SA earlier WC exits like 1992WC was more of bad luck/rules. 1996 against WI was Lara heroics and on his day Lara can single handedly beat any opposition. But their performance in 2011 WC loss to NZ, today's match is more towards choking, is my opinion.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 22:08 GMT

    South Africa is a good team but the problem is that in ODI, they are totally dependent of Hashim Amla. I've been watching them over the last few years, if Amla scored, they have won easily, like last year against England, whenever he scored they won, against Pakistan the same and so on. At time, they play too many shots, I don't know why? either they want to be aggressive and become over aggressive or they think it's a T20 or may be some other reasons. When a team loses a couple of quick wickets, then the next step is to consolidate rather than attacking. Once the partnership is there, then no problem you can accelerate at any time. They've almost lost against WI, but rain helped them out. I still believe the are a good team and they can turn things around. Missing Kallis, is not an issue as they got 2-3 good all rounders who can bat and bowl and having the advantage of AB as keeper/batsman. But the thing is to focus and apply your self, be calm at the crease in such situation.

  • POSTED BY ScottStevo on | June 19, 2013, 21:59 GMT

    @John-Price, exactly! Where was Philander. How is it possible that a guy can do so much damage against Englands batsmen in test matches isn't good enough for ODIs when 3 top line bowlers aren't in the side? It's amazing how so many bowlers aren't considered good enough for ODIs whilst having amazing test careers. It always baffles me how many changes are made for teams between the formats. A countries best players are their best players and should be more than capable of adapting between all 3 formats - and generally are. A good team will have a majority core of players in each of the 3 formats with few changes made for each format and varying conditions...In this case, SA were seriously depleted and Kallis is a major loss for them. Plus, their all too familiar choke in majors kicked in....

  • POSTED BY cloudmess on | June 19, 2013, 21:46 GMT

    I think it was one of those English days when batting first was a disadvantage - not to say that England might not still have won. The bigger problem was clear to me when I saw the SA team line-up - no Smith, Kallis, Morkel, Philander or Steyn.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 21:43 GMT

    I would say its completely choked. It may be because the way SA played today, it's makes us think from history. I would also blame modern era cricket. Start from 1st over, all team start thinking about big score. Thats why early blow expedite collapse process very soon. I agree first 2 wickets were eye pleasing but apart from that its all given by SA to proove they chocked. I hope Kirsten will find out and fix it. Good Luck SA

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 21:35 GMT

    Honest and open assessment by Kirsten. Pity he leaves without some success in the shorter format. I'm not sure it was out and out choke..how come Kleinveldt and Miller could play with such fluidity and composure? But in that sense, if the top order are guilty of cracking under the pressure of very good bowling they likely did choke since they have plenty of talent. Or, they are just not talented enough for the 1-day format. And there I fully agree with the comment about lack of flexibility and innovation. I also think AB really blew it. Easy to say as a spectator, but I think he is trying too hard to do too many things. Give the captaincy to someone else and leave him free to innovate in his batting.

  • POSTED BY woodhaven on | June 19, 2013, 21:26 GMT

    its not choking, they just get thrashed. choking is totally different. this game was not saf's at all

  • POSTED BY SinSpider on | June 19, 2013, 21:18 GMT

    I think people are unable to see Kirsten's point of view. IMO, Kirsten is not talking about "choking" in the game per se. He is talking about "choking" as soon as SA enter a big stage. They manage to under perform and lose the game, which is true in todays match as well. As soon as the SA batting innings started, it looked as if they could not breathe (i.e., choke). No structure to the innings, no responsibility, no partnerships! All you can see was panic. That said, one should congratulate England for their superlative performance.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 21:10 GMT

    Outplayed by England, but I venture to say that had the toss gone the other way the match could have been a mirror image of what actually happened. Unfortunately cricket has the quirk that there are times when conditions render it almost impossible for the team losing this gamble to win the match. Perhaps this was one of those days.

  • POSTED BY Kapil_Choudhary on | June 19, 2013, 21:01 GMT

    Kirsten is awesome. Calling it as it is - and not shying away from taking on some blame himself. If SA have to ever shed this chokers tag, they first need to accept that there is a problem - and not treat every time it happens as just unfortunate or a one-off. Anyone - players, commentators, fan, journalists - who believe that SA are "unfairly" labelled as chokers are just living in denial. For God's sake - its got to the point where people argue that SA just took a thrashing as opposed to choked - and essentially imply that taking a thrashing is somehow BETTER than choking in a closely fought match. A no. of SA fans (and possibly even players) prefer just bowing out in the group stage as opposed to reach the knockouts and lose. The denial has reached epic levels and Kirsten is absolutely correct to call it out. SA need a coach that tackles the problem head on rather than fuel more denial. However, if Kirsten couldn't do it, I doubt if ANYONE else can. The problem is now too deep.

  • POSTED BY gibbs.175 on | June 19, 2013, 21:00 GMT

    OH ...no....Sa made mistake all the time ...if there is no good openning start ,you can not put good runs on the board........So call D.kock,Elgar ...give a chance to another youngester for Sri Lanka series.......1.D kock,2 AMla,3 AB ,4 Elgar ,5 J P (spin option ) 6.Farhaan/ 7 Miller,(HITTERS or finshers ) ,8 Moris,9.Robin /phyngiso 10,Kyle 11,Sobe ( Extras M.Laren ,Birch,alviro ) give some break to DALE and MORKEL

  • POSTED BY John_Mil on | June 19, 2013, 20:58 GMT

    I'm always a Fan of South Africa other than my Home country India.My simple advice for South Africa to not to look at the history back on failing Major events.Just keep it simple always as Cool Captain Dhoni says.Because you are a best team in all departments(Bowling,batting,Fielding,good attitudes etc).Though I support India always I do admire South Africa because of the way they approach all the events.South Africa is a tough team to beat.Team please Prove this on any critical situation on Major events.Be consistent.Then you will be Winner of Next worl Cup edition as you have a wonderful coach tool.Better Luck SA......Britto

  • POSTED BY John-Price on | June 19, 2013, 20:57 GMT

    The batting let itself down, but the bowling just looked inadequate. With Morkel, Steyn and Kallis not available, how can Vernon Philander possibly not be good enough for this squad? He bowled superbly in England only a year ago and no-one would have been more pleased with his omission than the English batsmen.

  • POSTED BY Tribal_Cricket on | June 19, 2013, 20:46 GMT

    Teams which don't win tournaments are not good sides in my opinion. With this yardstick, SA is probably one of the weakest sides. England have also been dismal in tournaments. Only Australia is a truly champion side when it comes to ODIs and have managed more tournament wins than anyone else. I don't think any other team can even come close to matching their record in the future.

  • POSTED BY poms_have_short_memories on | June 19, 2013, 20:33 GMT

    To be fair this was a 2nd rate Sth African team. There was no Steyn, Smith, Kallis, Morkel or Philander, I feel the result would have been different if they had fielded their best XI, but credit where credit is due, well played to England.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 20:31 GMT

    I have been watching South African cricket closely since that fateful tie in 1999. Here's my views on this choking phenomenon:

    1) This was not a choke, it was a case of being outplayed. A choke would be a case where SA had a chance to win, and at the last minute they squander it, like they did in 1999. So they played badly today!

    2) I don't think SA is an innovative team in general, at least in the ODI format. They are too structured, or too 'professional'; they always only seem to have a plan A and not something to change to quickly if the game situation demands it! Look at the Asian teams in ICC events in general, they do well because they let their flair come through to help them win, always willing to change their plans during the game! That's also why SA has been able to be no 1 in Tests because a structured, professional approach works in the longer format. It's ironic, but the results are there to prove it.

    3) Fact is they need to start being flexible and adaptable in ODIs

  • POSTED BY Abitha on | June 19, 2013, 20:12 GMT

    It is just one off day for SA I think they have learnt their lesson. A wounded tiger is always dangerous. Hope they will forget this and regroup ..they will be the winnersof World cup next edition. Good luck. Kashinath

  • POSTED BY Raghavendra_Prasad on | June 19, 2013, 20:09 GMT

    Though I am a supporter of India, I admire south african team especially for their bowling and fielding talent. I pity with their debacle in this ICC tournament. In 2015 WC, if not India, I would be extremely happy to see SA winning the title.

  • POSTED BY sportofpain on | June 19, 2013, 19:54 GMT

    I think of this differently. SA are often called chokers but in reality the team is not good enough. Certainly this team does not have the same calibre as teams past so just saying they were one of the favorites does not make them so. SA is a very efficient team that gets the most out of those resources but for success on the world stage you almost always need genius - Steyn is a genius. He didn't play. AB may be one too and he failed. So the resources were really thin. In every sport brilliance will defeat efficiency because the brilliant - Maradona, Federer, Ponting, MSD, Akram will raise their game - while the merely efficient will play to potential and get beat.

    On to specifics, SA does not have a single spinner who is a match winner - haven't had one ever since they reappeared over 20 years ago. Just medium pacers won't cut it. Even Steyn - that force of nature can only bowl 10 overs.

  • POSTED BY spot_on on | June 19, 2013, 19:54 GMT

    Learn to adapt.. Amla isn't better than Dravid... He is not a big match player like few of the Indian lads.. you will have to take a feather from every team if you want to overcome this kind of psychological setbacks !!!

  • POSTED BY android_user on | June 19, 2013, 19:52 GMT

    wow!! now people like us will teach Mr Kirsten what to say and what not. Then why don't one of us become thr SA coach...hehe.

  • POSTED BY 2.14istherunrate on | June 19, 2013, 19:48 GMT

    Is choking the same thing as coming up against a better side at a critical moment? It's your problem to work out the psychology of this phenomenon.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 19:42 GMT

    you have to get into a winning position first before you choke, they were totally outplayed in this game and never looked like winning in the whole tournament. the only game SA did was against Pak well :). The bowling attack backup got exposed without steyn, morkel and they were not batting well enough anyways

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 19:31 GMT

    I dont rate this loss as a choke... they simply dont have a team to win But the surprising thing is its not as bad team as someone to go onto 80/8

  • POSTED BY Amar_bw on | June 19, 2013, 19:22 GMT

    Choke is indeed a horrible word and certainly a coach should not use it for his own team. It is absolutely wrong for the coach. He should have simply accepted the fact that England were superior today.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:56 GMT

    SA were the 5th best side in the CT, be glad they made semi

  • POSTED BY cheeseburgers on | June 19, 2013, 18:51 GMT

    SA always win a bilateral tournament on most occasion(recently vs. Pak) and there players like Amla, AB... all accumulate runs and enhance their batting averages.....however if there is global tournament then they really choke. for eg; see JP Duminy dismissed in same fashion today as was against NZ in QF of WC 2011(instead of playing with straight bat earlier in his innings, he chopped on !!!!).

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:42 GMT

    its one game. best of three different story. One has to ask whether the IPL workload, all the cricket Steyn's played at his level, and some issues with SA mental prep scuttle them

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:32 GMT

    Agreed, they didnt choke but they were outplayed completely. South Africa is a good test team right now and that's about it. A good team dominates in all forms of cricket imo - test cricket, one day, etc. West Indies did that for a long while and Australia did that for a while. India comes behind them as a close third overall. All these teams won World Cups more than once. South Africa never did (nor England for that matter). I do feel for South Africa though.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:32 GMT

    Such a pity. SA has always been one of the best teams, and one of my favorites. Its heartbreakning to see them exit big events at the time it matters most. This is one side that we all agree has to have some big tournaments under its belt but luck does not favor them. Starts every tournament as one the favorites to win it, but in the end its the same story. Tough luck guys, we understand.

  • POSTED BY Cyril_Knight on | June 19, 2013, 18:31 GMT

    @NP_NY you cannot ever compare an IPL match with the pressure of an international knock out tournament. It is just wrong! There is no hard cricket in IPL there is always a second chance. No attack in IPL comes close to watch SA faced today.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:29 GMT

    I feel this is this most inexperienced, inconsistent South-African 1day team ever, guys like Ingram, Duminy and du Plessis who score a fifty once in a while and they really not consistent kinda what Australia has now. The signs were there when they lost a 1day series against New Zealand and almost lost the series against Pakistan, But I've notice people usually call them chockers when they lose a match no credit given to the opposition.

  • POSTED BY Harmony111 on | June 19, 2013, 18:11 GMT

    It may now be hindsight but I started watching this match one over late and by that time SA were already one wicket down and the first feeling I got as my eyes saw the score was that Here they go again. Even before ABD got out and even before Hashim Amla got out, with the very first ball I saw I had that feeling in my heart that SA have not started well and that familiar C word was clearly visible to me in the background. Add to it the way Amla got out, it was sign of indecision. As overs went by, I kept thinking that ok, this partnership will build some base for SA and I kept shifting that optimism to the next partnership. Then I stopped watching, went out and when I came back I saw SA were something like 95/8. I thought it was hopeless but then Millar & Rory made some good runs but in my heart I knew even 260 wasn't safe on this wicket and no way SA were gonna make 260 after being 80/8. The ease of Rory's knock showed me how confused SA were early on.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:05 GMT

    oH!!!! and time also to get rid of that performance manager... surely you can find a decent ex cricketer to watch the "performances" of the players..

  • POSTED BY NP_NY on | June 19, 2013, 18:02 GMT

    Honesty! That's what Gary Kirsten is all about. However I don't believe SA is a team of chokers though. Maybe some of them but not all. I've seen AB in pressure situations at RCB. He almost always delivers in those situations. Anyway, I like most neutral cricket fans feel for SA and hope they will shed this tag sometime soon.

  • POSTED BY espncricinfomobile on | June 19, 2013, 17:59 GMT

    Back to square one. Time to pick some new players and captain.

  • POSTED BY Front-Foot-Lunge on | June 19, 2013, 17:56 GMT

    South Africa didn't choke, they weren't chasing a total. South Africa were just beaten by a far, far superior England. That truth undermines any banter about 'choking'.

  • POSTED BY Front-Foot-Lunge on | June 19, 2013, 17:56 GMT

    South Africa didn't choke, they weren't chasing a total. South Africa were just beaten by a far, far superior England. That truth undermines any banter about 'choking'.

  • POSTED BY espncricinfomobile on | June 19, 2013, 17:59 GMT

    Back to square one. Time to pick some new players and captain.

  • POSTED BY NP_NY on | June 19, 2013, 18:02 GMT

    Honesty! That's what Gary Kirsten is all about. However I don't believe SA is a team of chokers though. Maybe some of them but not all. I've seen AB in pressure situations at RCB. He almost always delivers in those situations. Anyway, I like most neutral cricket fans feel for SA and hope they will shed this tag sometime soon.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:05 GMT

    oH!!!! and time also to get rid of that performance manager... surely you can find a decent ex cricketer to watch the "performances" of the players..

  • POSTED BY Harmony111 on | June 19, 2013, 18:11 GMT

    It may now be hindsight but I started watching this match one over late and by that time SA were already one wicket down and the first feeling I got as my eyes saw the score was that Here they go again. Even before ABD got out and even before Hashim Amla got out, with the very first ball I saw I had that feeling in my heart that SA have not started well and that familiar C word was clearly visible to me in the background. Add to it the way Amla got out, it was sign of indecision. As overs went by, I kept thinking that ok, this partnership will build some base for SA and I kept shifting that optimism to the next partnership. Then I stopped watching, went out and when I came back I saw SA were something like 95/8. I thought it was hopeless but then Millar & Rory made some good runs but in my heart I knew even 260 wasn't safe on this wicket and no way SA were gonna make 260 after being 80/8. The ease of Rory's knock showed me how confused SA were early on.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:29 GMT

    I feel this is this most inexperienced, inconsistent South-African 1day team ever, guys like Ingram, Duminy and du Plessis who score a fifty once in a while and they really not consistent kinda what Australia has now. The signs were there when they lost a 1day series against New Zealand and almost lost the series against Pakistan, But I've notice people usually call them chockers when they lose a match no credit given to the opposition.

  • POSTED BY Cyril_Knight on | June 19, 2013, 18:31 GMT

    @NP_NY you cannot ever compare an IPL match with the pressure of an international knock out tournament. It is just wrong! There is no hard cricket in IPL there is always a second chance. No attack in IPL comes close to watch SA faced today.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:32 GMT

    Such a pity. SA has always been one of the best teams, and one of my favorites. Its heartbreakning to see them exit big events at the time it matters most. This is one side that we all agree has to have some big tournaments under its belt but luck does not favor them. Starts every tournament as one the favorites to win it, but in the end its the same story. Tough luck guys, we understand.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:32 GMT

    Agreed, they didnt choke but they were outplayed completely. South Africa is a good test team right now and that's about it. A good team dominates in all forms of cricket imo - test cricket, one day, etc. West Indies did that for a long while and Australia did that for a while. India comes behind them as a close third overall. All these teams won World Cups more than once. South Africa never did (nor England for that matter). I do feel for South Africa though.

  • POSTED BY on | June 19, 2013, 18:42 GMT

    its one game. best of three different story. One has to ask whether the IPL workload, all the cricket Steyn's played at his level, and some issues with SA mental prep scuttle them