Australia in India 2012-13 March 6, 2013

Lyon's role still up in the air

50

Nathan Lyon's immediate future in the Test side remains unclear after the coach Mickey Arthur indicated he had been disappointed with Lyon's season, not just his performance in the first Test. Lyon was dropped for the second Test in Hyderabad, and during the match Arthur said there were technical aspects of his game that Lyon needed to work on, as well as regaining confidence after collecting 4 for 244 in Chennai.

However, among those wickets was a beautiful delivery that turned through the gate to bowl Sachin Tendulkar before MS Dhoni began his vicious assault. Lyon's replacements, Xavier Doherty and Glenn Maxwell, failed to collect a wicket on the second day of the Test when Cheteshwar Pujara and M Vijay ran away with the game, although they fought back the following day to claim seven victims between them.

Lyon had been Australia's first-choice spinner since his Test debut in Sri Lanka in 2011 and he took only one Test longer than Shane Warne to reach 50 Test wickets. But since the start of the Australian summer Lyon has had less impact, and in seven Tests during that time, he has collected 23 victims at the inflated average of 45.08. His best figures in that period were 3 for 41 against South Africa at the WACA.

"I think Nathan still has a massive future and he probably is up there as our best spinner at the moment, but you fluctuate in and out of form and he's learning the game at international level, which is a really tough gig for him," Arthur said. "He only played four first-class games before he played a Test match, he hasn't played many after that and truth be told he hasn't gone well this year.

"We persisted with him because we put a lot of faith into Nathan but there came a point where we felt he needed to be taken out of the team and allowed to work on the things that we think he should be working on outside of competition games. We will re-assess where he is but he is doing everything right, he is not lacking in any preparation."

Asked if it would be possible for Lyon to do enough before the third Test in Mohali to earn a recall, Arthur said: "To answer that truthfully, I'm not sure. We will have to have a look and see where he is over the next couple of days. I'm not sure on that, time will tell I guess."

Arthur's comments raise the possibility that Doherty might be retained for the Mohali Test, perhaps in partnership with Maxwell again or maybe as the sole spinner alongside a pace-heavy attack. Doherty turned a few balls past the bat on the second day as Pujara and Vijay put on their 370-run stand but few of his deliveries were seriously threatening until later in the innings and he finished with 3 for 131 from 46.1 overs.

Maxwell was costly on the second day and although he eventually broke the Pujara-Vijay partnership, by then India were well and truly in control of the match. He ended up with 4 for 127 from 26 overs, at an economy rate of 4.88, and his lower-order batting was not a factor either, with scores of 13 and 8.

"Doherty did what we know Doherty can do," Arthur said. "He ran in, he went at under three an over and he caused problems when there was stuff for him to work with. That was exactly Xavier Doherty. Maxi was probably a little bit too loose. He's taken four wickets, he's created opportunities, but he's gone at over four and a half an over.

"You need the two of them bowling in a partnership, you need the two of us being able to stop the game with our spinners and we weren't able to do that because Maxi leaked a little bit. There's a massive amount of potential in Maxi though. Do we go back to three quicks again? I think conditions will determine that when we get to Mohali."

The Australians took part in a centre-wicket training session on the Test pitch in Hyderabad on Wednesday, on what was supposed to be the final day of the match. The spinners and the fast men who didn't play in the Test, Mitchell Johnson and Mitchell Starc, did plenty of bowling. The Mohali surface is expected to offer a bit more bounce for the fast bowlers.

The squad will travel to Chandigarh on Thursday and will then have two days off to clear their heads away from cricket before resuming training on Sunday. The third Test starts on Thursday next week.

Brydon Coverdale is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo. He tweets here

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • ajetti on March 6, 2013, 19:57 GMT

    The Australians seem to invest in some players and wish them to succeed. Example - Phil Hughes (tears spring to my eyes every time I see him bat and fail), Lyon (to an extent), Maxwell (ooh! I've run out of words here!). No amount of push and lip service is going to make players with limited talent and skills succeed at test level. ODI and T20 - yes! Tests - no! I would not blame the players. They are doing their best. But that's the sad truth - they have no more to give than their best. On this tour, they can choose any spinner but will get the same result - 200 runs per test, maybe 2 or 3 wickets after the Indians have run away with the game. They need to focus on their batting. Combat the spinners. Put up a score of 450+ and that will be a real test of the Indians' skills.

  • Pablo23 on March 8, 2013, 15:29 GMT

    well maxwell got 4 top order wickets and should have had a five for on debut if cowan didnt drop a sitter, doherty's wickets were only consolation tail end wickets. They need to give them both another chance though. I dont think any kind of selection changes will alter the result on those wickets at this stage. The batsmen just need to dig in and be patient if necessary like india are. India arent concerned with their run rate being 1.8 for 20 overs or so.They dont get flustered. It is a 5 day game. Just get a big total any way you can & create some scoreboard pressure. Hughes does need to go though

  • on March 8, 2013, 7:10 GMT

    lets face the cold hard facts the Australian team has very little experience, particuarly in Indian conditions. N.Lyon had a dream start to his career. But now he has lost his bowling mojo. Flight and grip variations seem to be missing. He does not use the crease well and lacks confidence. This can happen to any spinner. But realistically his figures over the last 6 months have not been flattering. The batting seems in dissaray with the exception of M.Clarke, who is receiving little support. My choice to open would be Warner and Watson, remembering their job is to get the team off to a good start. M.Clarke should bat at 3 ( time to shore up that position )

  • Timoff74 on March 8, 2013, 3:26 GMT

    So basically what Mickey Arthur is saying is that Lyon is out of the side because he leaks too many runs, not because he is not taking enough wickets, and Doherty is in the side because he can keep an end tight and go for under three an over, whether or not he takes wickets, and that Maxwell is in danger because he is going for too many. My goodness, is it any wonder that the only spinner of note in South Africa during the Arthur years was Paul Harris, the perfect example of "keep an end tight and any wickets are a bonus" player. Forget about Australia having attacking spinners with that mindset, I pity Lyon.

  • Mitcher on March 7, 2013, 23:35 GMT

    @FFL: So true mate. Could you pass on some specialist English advice about seam bowling. I mean, your guys are really towelling up the mighty Kiwis right now aren't they? Oh... hold on. Scrap that.

  • pat_one_back on March 7, 2013, 20:34 GMT

    Lyon in for Maxwell, Patto will probably have an enforced lay-off so Johnson is due his chance, if there's bounce then keep Patto on light duties or bring back Starc. The Indians have not been under pressure since Tendulkar survived Lyon's convincing appeal on Day 2 of the series, Aust need to overcome their instinct to drive the pace of the game, cricket in India is a bake off, not a pie throwing contest (hence Maxwell not required).

  • AKS286 on March 7, 2013, 17:13 GMT

    @Posted by anilkp on (March 6, 2013, 20:04 GMT) Bhajji falls on wicket column and also because Ashwin is in paradise. Ashwin is not a good bowler but that heaven pitch give him the crown. Jadeja bowls beautifully. about Kreja i gave you the 3 stats for judging. maidens are less but his stats did't show the tight bowlng OK but if you were watched that match then you understand that whenever required he delivered on that match. and also check out the dismissals buddy.

  • Morgan78 on March 7, 2013, 12:22 GMT

    Disappointing stuff from Arthur here. Lyon would have had a much more productive summer with a competent gloveman behind the stumps. Very worried that Lyon will get forced back to bowling defensively and ultimately have his career ended for not taking enough wickets. It feels like a scapegoat is being prepared for what has so far been an ignominious tour for Aus.

  • tomjas on March 7, 2013, 10:41 GMT

    Some of you guys must be Indian players if you're recommending that Oz go with 3 spinners

    We dont have one decent one atm let alone 3

    @Front-Foot-Lunge - why would Oz select a spinner to take advantage of reverse swing?

  • maddy20 on March 7, 2013, 9:56 GMT

    To be honest Maxwell was pretty alright. You cannot expect a debutant to deliver instantly on conditions alien to him. He did will to comeback on day 3. Dropping him now would be the worst decision the Aussies can make now. Doherthy wasn't that bad either and he kept things pretty tight. Aus may be better off playin both Lyon and Doherthy along with Maxwell as an allrounder. If you back them to do well, they will get better. Dropping spinners after one game or two is the mistake CA has made time and again. Kreza, Hauritz etc., have all disappeared the same way. Pattinson and Johnson should comprise the pace attack. Johnson's experience in these conditions and his ability to reverse swing would be the key for them if they are to bounce back and atleast put up a fight if not win.

  • ajetti on March 6, 2013, 19:57 GMT

    The Australians seem to invest in some players and wish them to succeed. Example - Phil Hughes (tears spring to my eyes every time I see him bat and fail), Lyon (to an extent), Maxwell (ooh! I've run out of words here!). No amount of push and lip service is going to make players with limited talent and skills succeed at test level. ODI and T20 - yes! Tests - no! I would not blame the players. They are doing their best. But that's the sad truth - they have no more to give than their best. On this tour, they can choose any spinner but will get the same result - 200 runs per test, maybe 2 or 3 wickets after the Indians have run away with the game. They need to focus on their batting. Combat the spinners. Put up a score of 450+ and that will be a real test of the Indians' skills.

  • Pablo23 on March 8, 2013, 15:29 GMT

    well maxwell got 4 top order wickets and should have had a five for on debut if cowan didnt drop a sitter, doherty's wickets were only consolation tail end wickets. They need to give them both another chance though. I dont think any kind of selection changes will alter the result on those wickets at this stage. The batsmen just need to dig in and be patient if necessary like india are. India arent concerned with their run rate being 1.8 for 20 overs or so.They dont get flustered. It is a 5 day game. Just get a big total any way you can & create some scoreboard pressure. Hughes does need to go though

  • on March 8, 2013, 7:10 GMT

    lets face the cold hard facts the Australian team has very little experience, particuarly in Indian conditions. N.Lyon had a dream start to his career. But now he has lost his bowling mojo. Flight and grip variations seem to be missing. He does not use the crease well and lacks confidence. This can happen to any spinner. But realistically his figures over the last 6 months have not been flattering. The batting seems in dissaray with the exception of M.Clarke, who is receiving little support. My choice to open would be Warner and Watson, remembering their job is to get the team off to a good start. M.Clarke should bat at 3 ( time to shore up that position )

  • Timoff74 on March 8, 2013, 3:26 GMT

    So basically what Mickey Arthur is saying is that Lyon is out of the side because he leaks too many runs, not because he is not taking enough wickets, and Doherty is in the side because he can keep an end tight and go for under three an over, whether or not he takes wickets, and that Maxwell is in danger because he is going for too many. My goodness, is it any wonder that the only spinner of note in South Africa during the Arthur years was Paul Harris, the perfect example of "keep an end tight and any wickets are a bonus" player. Forget about Australia having attacking spinners with that mindset, I pity Lyon.

  • Mitcher on March 7, 2013, 23:35 GMT

    @FFL: So true mate. Could you pass on some specialist English advice about seam bowling. I mean, your guys are really towelling up the mighty Kiwis right now aren't they? Oh... hold on. Scrap that.

  • pat_one_back on March 7, 2013, 20:34 GMT

    Lyon in for Maxwell, Patto will probably have an enforced lay-off so Johnson is due his chance, if there's bounce then keep Patto on light duties or bring back Starc. The Indians have not been under pressure since Tendulkar survived Lyon's convincing appeal on Day 2 of the series, Aust need to overcome their instinct to drive the pace of the game, cricket in India is a bake off, not a pie throwing contest (hence Maxwell not required).

  • AKS286 on March 7, 2013, 17:13 GMT

    @Posted by anilkp on (March 6, 2013, 20:04 GMT) Bhajji falls on wicket column and also because Ashwin is in paradise. Ashwin is not a good bowler but that heaven pitch give him the crown. Jadeja bowls beautifully. about Kreja i gave you the 3 stats for judging. maidens are less but his stats did't show the tight bowlng OK but if you were watched that match then you understand that whenever required he delivered on that match. and also check out the dismissals buddy.

  • Morgan78 on March 7, 2013, 12:22 GMT

    Disappointing stuff from Arthur here. Lyon would have had a much more productive summer with a competent gloveman behind the stumps. Very worried that Lyon will get forced back to bowling defensively and ultimately have his career ended for not taking enough wickets. It feels like a scapegoat is being prepared for what has so far been an ignominious tour for Aus.

  • tomjas on March 7, 2013, 10:41 GMT

    Some of you guys must be Indian players if you're recommending that Oz go with 3 spinners

    We dont have one decent one atm let alone 3

    @Front-Foot-Lunge - why would Oz select a spinner to take advantage of reverse swing?

  • maddy20 on March 7, 2013, 9:56 GMT

    To be honest Maxwell was pretty alright. You cannot expect a debutant to deliver instantly on conditions alien to him. He did will to comeback on day 3. Dropping him now would be the worst decision the Aussies can make now. Doherthy wasn't that bad either and he kept things pretty tight. Aus may be better off playin both Lyon and Doherthy along with Maxwell as an allrounder. If you back them to do well, they will get better. Dropping spinners after one game or two is the mistake CA has made time and again. Kreza, Hauritz etc., have all disappeared the same way. Pattinson and Johnson should comprise the pace attack. Johnson's experience in these conditions and his ability to reverse swing would be the key for them if they are to bounce back and atleast put up a fight if not win.

  • Nutcutlet on March 7, 2013, 9:44 GMT

    If Lyon has 'technical aspects to work on, as well as regaining his confidence', as reported here, I take it that everyone else, esp. the batting bar the captain, is technically sound & has no confidence deficit! It's beginning to look as if there is another agenda re: Nathan Lyon.

  • on March 7, 2013, 9:30 GMT

    He's still a better spinner than Doherty & Maxwell. Learn to provide trust to your players, Mr. Arthur. Poor guy has played only 1st test in India. Shane warne himself struggled in India.

  • Front-Foot-Lunge on March 7, 2013, 9:18 GMT

    Australia need to bring back Lyon as there isn't a seamer in Aus capable of replacing him. There may be some reverse swing around in the 3rd test, so Lyon should get a chance to exploit this.

  • Pete_AU on March 7, 2013, 9:05 GMT

    I do feel a little for Lyon but he has had far more license and far more time to prove himself than Jason Krejza, who if you will recall took twice as many wickets for about as many runs as Lyon did in his last test, and was dropped regardless. I think two (proper) spinners should have been used in one of the last two tests, but now to be totally honest I have no idea how the pitches play in the next two tests so cant comment. Seems a bit rough that Doherty gets picked with a little spin support in Maxwell but Lyon is sent out to fend for himself in the ultimate of spin-friendly conditions.

    It's a shame to be going back to Steve Smith, especially when his state teammate and supposedly best spinner in the Sheffield Shield at the moment (Stephen O'Keefe - who can bat a bit incidentally) was not even apparently on the radar. Selectors should do a bit of explaining I feel.

  • MikR on March 7, 2013, 6:36 GMT

    I don't think the inclusion of Khawaja or Smith would make much of a difference. In the second test Aus went in with 8 batsman but still failed to put up a big score. There is no point on having 8 guys who cannot play spin...the only way to improve is by continuously playing spin in nets not by replacing or increasing the number of batsman. I think a more balanced side would be Cowan, Warner, Clarke, Watson, Henriques, Wade, Maxwell, Siddle, Pattinson/ Starc (may need to rest Pattinson because he is prone to injuries and also bowled a lot of overs in the first 2 tests), Doherty and Lyon. I don't think Aus should leave out Doherty or Maxwell because that will dampen their confidence level. They definately need to bring Lyon back...although he leaked runs in the first test but he still bowled brilliantly to take 4 crucial wickets. Also since Doherty is more of an economical bowler, Aus need an aggressive spinner which is Lyon.

  • Rahul_78 on March 7, 2013, 6:03 GMT

    Instead of denting confidence of his resource in whom a lot has already been invested, Arthur would have done well to understand that Indians are bloody good players of spin bowling. India is a same place where legendary Warne was made to look ordinary again and again. He did remarkably well in Sri Lanka but failed to produce results in India for long time. He was also expensive. Compared to Warne we are talking about mere mortals in Lyon, Maxwell and Co. This is a same Indian side which got a massive hiding in Australia. Where conditions suited Aussie attack. Nothing much has changed and only thing is boot is on the other foot. Little surprised at seeing a coach discussing his resources lacking in technic in public.

  • on March 7, 2013, 5:03 GMT

    The first real problem is the Aussie lineup includes four openers. They have to bite the bullet and pick 2. Hughes was starting to show good technique in Australia so will go to England. Maxwell is fine for the flashy forms of the game. An all-rounder has to be worthy as a bowler or as a batsman. In Smith and Maxwell neither is at test standard as bowler or batsman. Watson was a better bowler (at test level) than batsman. Watto isn't bowling he shouldn't be there. Still questions on the warners technique for real test cricket. India best side: Cowan, Marsh, Clarke, Khawajah, Bailey (or other tried and tested lower order batsman) Henriques, Haddin, Johnson, Siddle, Starc, Doherty

    England Side: Cowan, Hughes, Clarke, Khawajah, Bailey, Henriques, Haddin/Paine, Harris/Hilfi, Siddle, Starc, Doherty/Lyon

  • CantFindMyScreenName on March 7, 2013, 3:22 GMT

    Maybe if there was a half decent keeper behind the sticks his performance and figures would have been far better this summer.

    How many chances has Wade missed this year off Lyon alone?

  • on March 7, 2013, 2:36 GMT

    I cant believe folks here are talking about Bajji being a better bowler than Ashwin. One has 3 wickets in 2 tests and the other has 18 wickets. And taking past records is like saying that Sehwag should be considered based on his 2005 performance. Bhajji and Sehwag are done. There are tons of good talent who are unfortunately sidelined ( rahane, dhawan, tiwary, rayudu, ohja, rahul sharma ) and a few who are given chances based on PAST ( really past ) performances ( Bhajji, Sehwag, NohitSharma ). Sad state of affairs...

  • tfjones1978 on March 7, 2013, 2:19 GMT

    Australia in the first test should have gone in with: Two specialist pace, one medium pace alrounder, one specialist spinner and one spinning alrounder. If Lyon was rested for the second test then he should be return for the third test as Lyon and Doherty need to take turns being the specialist spinner. That said, Australia should look at whether they can have two specialist spinners and a third spinner in the side. I would rest Maxwell for the third test and return him for the four test unless Smith does well. My side would be: Warner, Cowan, Watson, Clarke, Khawaja, Wade, Henriques, Smith, Siddle, Patterson, Lyon. This would give Australia two pace, two spin and one medium. It would also mean that our batsmen would be solid until number eight. That said, if three spinners is needed I would put Maxwell in instead of Khawaja.

  • Cricket1960 on March 7, 2013, 2:08 GMT

    Why does Lyon cop all the crap?? If Wade had held onto all the chances he dropped and/or missed this summer, Lyon would have had heaps more wickets, and his figures ok. Wade is the weak link - why is he never mentioned in all this. Get rid of him, and get a decent keeper who can actually keep. Making a few runs, here and there, doesn't make up for what he's given away. Very poor attitude as well.

  • AidanFX on March 7, 2013, 1:57 GMT

    Has anything changed post argus - a guy has a bad day in India (which can happen to any spinner) and he is axed. Lyon has been servicable since he came into the side. He has done his job complementing a team which has an emerging pace attack. The selection was a complete mistake. A better move may have been to add Doherty at the expense of Starc to complement Lyon. In any case I think 3 pace attack plus Lyon is Australia's best bet. Yet here we go again - we have a decent improving spinner (has the odd bad game but otherwise doing his job soundly) and he is axed because he is no Warne. Now we turn to a guy with fairly poor international and FC record who is much older? What is with the selection Policy ? - now we hear Smith is on the radar. He no longer identifies himself as alrounder. He did have potentionial as a bowler but the guy gave it up. The only thing is (and I go by word of mouth) is apparently he can play spin well. But he is not really a top order batsmen.

  • PeteB on March 7, 2013, 1:11 GMT

    Arthur's statements are confusing. Lyon has a future yet he has been disappointing. Seems like Arthur wants a new Paul Harris for Australia. It's the South African mistrusting of spinners that's coming out.

  • popcorn on March 6, 2013, 23:09 GMT

    It was TOTALLY INCORRECT to leave out Nathan Lyon and take Doheerty in his place. Worse still, tasking Glenn maxwell. I hope the Selectors will see good reaon to take Lyon, and drop Maxwell.

  • MenFromMarts on March 6, 2013, 21:42 GMT

    Tell Watson if he doesn't want to bowl he doesn't get to play ( my Dad is bigger than your Dad school stuff isn't it?). Brings some age and resilience into the batting line up. D.Hussey, M.North, C.Rogers B.Haddin, N Hauritz.These are the "older generation" literally, who tend not to take things for granted . One of the reasons Clarke is so good now is that he was the young guy amongst older heads. Now he is a relatively young guy but the oldest head with too many young heads under him. This ageist policy the selectors have adopted is ridiculous !! Go back to the + 34 year olds and toughen up princesses !!!

  • handyandy on March 6, 2013, 20:51 GMT

    The fact that they selected 5 pace bowlers and only 3 specialist spin bowlers in this squad speaks volumes about the selectors. How useful would a third spin option be to the selectors right now.

    The only good thing about this disaster is that it should insure that O'keefe will get his chance in the ashes series.

  • anilkp on March 6, 2013, 20:04 GMT

    @AKS286: Did not I say, "An expert bowler may not succeed while a lesser one would"? That emphasizes on the randomness of taking the wicket. That explains Vaughan. However, by christening the pitch as "heaven for spinners" you are generalizing pitches and spinners to an unbelievable, impracticable extent. Tell me, why did Bhajji fail in "the heaven"? Also, Krejza took "8 wickets with lots of maiden and tight bowling", right? Did you care to check the scorecard? Here it is: JJ Krejza 43.5-1-215-8-4.90; a solitary maiden in almost 44 overs at almost 5 runs per over. That is tight bowling, right? Thank you.

  • AKS286 on March 6, 2013, 19:46 GMT

    @Posted by anilkp on (March 6, 2013, 17:43 GMT Also about Steyn- He is the WOrld's best fast bowler in the history of cricket. and also AFRICAN DEADLY BARRAGE (steyn, morkel, phil, lonwabo, abbott) destroys any fortress anywhere anypitch. H.Singh bowls tightly atleast. about ashwin every indian fan and expert don't want him in the before the series. Ashwin's performance against POMS & during Oz tour was horrible. check out ashwin record in overseas matches and check H.singh record.

  • AKS286 on March 6, 2013, 19:35 GMT

    @Posted by anilkp on (March 6, 2013, 17:43 GMT Fella a spinner has three roles in the team. 1. Taking wickets, 2. bowls tightly, 3. bowls maidens to create pressure. Lyon fails in all three. And about SRT wicket would you remember how M.Vaughn bowled tendulkar, vaughn delivery was like Warne's off spin magical delivery from wide to middle stump. Means what M.Vaughan is a great bowler.and on that time real SRT was playing not the current old one. one more thing lyon is encourage & motivate by everyone but remember Kreja was critisized by eveyone and he bowled out THE WALL's defence. he took 8 wickets with lots of maiden & tight bowling.

  • Rahulbose on March 6, 2013, 19:09 GMT

    Australia do have a problem with finding quality spinners in the current crop. But the job of the coach is to get the best out of his players. Arthur seems to have no clue on what separates a good spinner from a part timer. He is only looking at the numbers and hurting the one good spinner he has. India also have done some of that by the way Dhoni has treated Bhaji in the last two test matches. But unlike Dhoni, Aus can't afford to take a dump on their best spinner on tour.

  • hhillbumper on March 6, 2013, 19:03 GMT

    Lyon is a as good as Swann. Trouble is that would be Alec Swann

  • Fine_Legs on March 6, 2013, 18:39 GMT

    Whoever you pick - Lyon, Doherty and Maxwell - and in any combination, the spinners have probably got to pitch the ball a bit further up, with a little more loop. That's one thing even college spinners are taught in India - you have to pitch closer to the batsman so that he has less time to deal with whatever happens after pitching - fizz, bounce, sharp turn - whatever. Doherty would have picked wickets with some of his fizzy stuff if he had at least bowled the same balls on off and middle, rather than well outside off. These same spinners with just a couple of things ironed out could just come out with different results, honestly speaking.

  • broken_chairs on March 6, 2013, 18:12 GMT

    @Ozcricketwriter ... so you're comparing averages between lyon and doherty based on 1 test match a piece... and you think you're making a convincing argument?

  • street_smart on March 6, 2013, 17:46 GMT

    Coach like Mickey Arthur & John Buchanan are all rubbish. They always had a gr8 teams to coach. I'm not sure what's their contribution at all. Most of the time the way they speak, as if they know every technical aspect of cricket which I worry they dont have in their sleeves. They need to help the cricketers to explain the technical aspect rather than asking them to find out a solution to their problem which they may not be aware off.

    Arthur & Buchanan just sit & earn hell lot of money .. goes out in media & gives lecture on technical aspect...What rubbish..

  • anilkp on March 6, 2013, 17:43 GMT

    @ AKS286: If you are right--that these conditions are like heaven for spinners--then what about Bhajji? Is he not a better spinner than Lyon? You--and several others including the Aussie Team Thinktank--need to take note of two things. (1) Extracting life from a pitch--helpful or not--depends on the skill and technique of the bowler. An expert bowler may not succeed while a lesser one would. Steyn was unplayable on that Motera dustbowl where the Indians were skittled out for a paltry score. (2) The Indian batters are far more efficient in playing spin than are the Aussies. So, even if Lyon did well--he took out Sachin with a beauty, didn't he?--he was negated by more skillful batters who were willing to invest with patience. The bottom line was: the Chennai Test was marred for the Aussie by a once-in-lifetime Dhoni knock. The Aussie intelligentsia panicked, committing selectorial blunder. That's it. Seems they are hell bent in committing more blunders!

  • blink182alex on March 6, 2013, 17:17 GMT

    The more Micky Arthur speaks the more rubbish he comes up with. If they want to have a look at first class records this summer, check out which spinner took the most wickets - Lyon with 30 wickets in 12 games, not great but he was our leader wicket taker in the series versus South Africa.

    Doherty on the other has 5 wickets in 5 first class matches, if they think Lyon hasn't gone well how can they think Doherty has!

    Oh yeah, because he was reasonable in odi and T20 games this summer, apparently average performances in one day cricket is good enough to get you a gig in the test side, ask Glenn Maxwell he should know. Maybe this tour is being used as preparation for the Champions Trophy?

  • Ozcricketwriter on March 6, 2013, 16:59 GMT

    @Webba84 - I did check, Doherty averaged 39.83 for the tour while Lyon averaged 47.33. In tests, Doherty averaged 43.67 while Lyon averaged 61.00. I could go on about these but in every conceivable aspect, Doherty has significantly outperformed Lyon this tour. The reality is that Lyon shouldn't have even been on this tour, let alone played the first test.

  • anilkp on March 6, 2013, 16:56 GMT

    Lyon has played the majority of the recent Tests in Australia; name me a spinner (other than SW and SMcG) who has fared better than 23@45 in one summer there. Every spinner would love to play in the subcontinent, but, hey, the batsmen there are best players of spin. So, Lyon had not much of a chance. Mickey forgets that the greats Warne/Murali had disappointing tours in India; and he surely does not rate Lyon as high. No matter what, Lyon is your best spinner. Period. You got to support him-or, don't play a spinner at all, and stick to your strength--the quicks. Besides, he batted very well; much better thahn Hughes. Running a musical chair of the spinners tells volumes about the collective intelligence of the Aussie selectors and administrators. Stick to your best squad, support them when they need it most, have patience, realize the ground reality and challenges, and try to motivate your them with care. They will surely make you smile sooner than later.

  • David_Boon on March 6, 2013, 16:17 GMT

    You know who else need their season's performance reviewed? Mickey Arthur.

  • CricketMaan on March 6, 2013, 16:16 GMT

    Is Arthur messing up with Australia big time? Gary coached SA to No.1 in no time, what is Arthur doing with Aus? Why not Lehman, Moody, Baylis, Shipperd as coach? Is there a dreath of Aus coaches in the system? And if Greg chappel is considered guru by Aus media, why not he picked to coach them? I know he messed up his relationship with Pup, just like he did with Sourav. I've also wondered why no Bailey in that middle order. He ain't that bad in whites!

  • on March 6, 2013, 15:58 GMT

    Lyon should get chance in next 2 matches. He is best bet for Aussies....

  • ThatsJustCricket on March 6, 2013, 15:48 GMT

    @Ozcricketwriter, not sure I get it. If Lyon is a good bowler overall, the subcontinent wickets should help him be a better weapon bcoz they tend offer more turn for the spinners. Why is he not suited for Indian wickets? As for Doherty, well, he is a good ODI bowler, nothing more than that. I guess it comes down what is expected from him. If his role is to just tie up one end and may be look for 2/3 wickets on Day 4 or 5 then he should be the man. But even on turning tracks on day 4/5, would you back Doherty to run through a batting line up? I might rather back Lyon for that.

  • JimDavis on March 6, 2013, 15:47 GMT

    Typical - a lot of opinion but nothing by the way of a plan from the Australian brains trust. Australia will not progress until we admit that all our spinners are crap. Pick the least crap and then give him all the support and encouragement we can give - a la England with Giles. It was Giles who lead the way for England to at least work a spin option into their team set up, paving the way for Swann.

  • David_Boon on March 6, 2013, 15:45 GMT

    @ phunny_game Probably the last time that pitch will be used for the season, no harm in it. Not like India would mind after the crushing they just dished out.

  • on March 6, 2013, 15:32 GMT

    The whole world knows we've got an incredible pace attack. We should utilize it more and play to our strengths instead of trying to match India spin for spin regardless of pitch conditions.

  • AKS286 on March 6, 2013, 15:27 GMT

    @Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (March 6, 2013, 13:52 GMT) you said "these conditions are wrong for lyon"- Really These pitches are heaven for spin bowling, dream pitch for every spinner, Career changer pitch. just simple he is a Legend, future captain & coach.

  • bumsonseats on March 6, 2013, 14:57 GMT

    Ozcricketwriter i dont how or why you say lyon style was not suited to indian conditions. hes an off spinner similar to ashwin has all the attributes to get wickets more than maxwell. if he was your # one in oz why was he not your # one when you get to india. the biggest surprise was the selection of smith a spin bowler who does not spin the bowl.

  • phunny_game on March 6, 2013, 14:50 GMT

    why were they practising on centre wicket anyway... is that even allowed??? Never heard such a thing before...

  • Webba84 on March 6, 2013, 14:48 GMT

    You might want to check Lyon and Doherty's performances in the warm up matches again, mate.

  • Ozcricketwriter on March 6, 2013, 13:52 GMT

    Pre-tour it was widely talked about that Lyon's style didn't suit Indian conditions, while Doherty's did. This was supported by Lyon's record on the subcontinent and against subcontinental teams, which is not a good record. In the warm up matches, Doherty's performances were significantly better than Lyon's. The question is not why was Lyon dropped but rather why was he in the side in the 1st test. I can understand him going on the tour but he shouldn't have played in the 1st test. Similarly, why was Peter Siddle in the side? (same reason for Lyon - Siddle simply isn't suited to these conditions) And why wasn't Mitchell Johnson, who is in form, and has an amazing record in India, playing from the 1st test? I agree that Lyon's record is overall good and in the right kind of conditions he has been a useful backup bowler to the pacers. But we have seen before this tour that in unhelpful conditions Lyon is not very good. These conditions are wrong for Lyon.

  • Ozcricketwriter on March 6, 2013, 13:52 GMT

    Pre-tour it was widely talked about that Lyon's style didn't suit Indian conditions, while Doherty's did. This was supported by Lyon's record on the subcontinent and against subcontinental teams, which is not a good record. In the warm up matches, Doherty's performances were significantly better than Lyon's. The question is not why was Lyon dropped but rather why was he in the side in the 1st test. I can understand him going on the tour but he shouldn't have played in the 1st test. Similarly, why was Peter Siddle in the side? (same reason for Lyon - Siddle simply isn't suited to these conditions) And why wasn't Mitchell Johnson, who is in form, and has an amazing record in India, playing from the 1st test? I agree that Lyon's record is overall good and in the right kind of conditions he has been a useful backup bowler to the pacers. But we have seen before this tour that in unhelpful conditions Lyon is not very good. These conditions are wrong for Lyon.

  • Webba84 on March 6, 2013, 14:48 GMT

    You might want to check Lyon and Doherty's performances in the warm up matches again, mate.

  • phunny_game on March 6, 2013, 14:50 GMT

    why were they practising on centre wicket anyway... is that even allowed??? Never heard such a thing before...

  • bumsonseats on March 6, 2013, 14:57 GMT

    Ozcricketwriter i dont how or why you say lyon style was not suited to indian conditions. hes an off spinner similar to ashwin has all the attributes to get wickets more than maxwell. if he was your # one in oz why was he not your # one when you get to india. the biggest surprise was the selection of smith a spin bowler who does not spin the bowl.

  • AKS286 on March 6, 2013, 15:27 GMT

    @Posted by Ozcricketwriter on (March 6, 2013, 13:52 GMT) you said "these conditions are wrong for lyon"- Really These pitches are heaven for spin bowling, dream pitch for every spinner, Career changer pitch. just simple he is a Legend, future captain & coach.

  • on March 6, 2013, 15:32 GMT

    The whole world knows we've got an incredible pace attack. We should utilize it more and play to our strengths instead of trying to match India spin for spin regardless of pitch conditions.

  • David_Boon on March 6, 2013, 15:45 GMT

    @ phunny_game Probably the last time that pitch will be used for the season, no harm in it. Not like India would mind after the crushing they just dished out.

  • JimDavis on March 6, 2013, 15:47 GMT

    Typical - a lot of opinion but nothing by the way of a plan from the Australian brains trust. Australia will not progress until we admit that all our spinners are crap. Pick the least crap and then give him all the support and encouragement we can give - a la England with Giles. It was Giles who lead the way for England to at least work a spin option into their team set up, paving the way for Swann.

  • ThatsJustCricket on March 6, 2013, 15:48 GMT

    @Ozcricketwriter, not sure I get it. If Lyon is a good bowler overall, the subcontinent wickets should help him be a better weapon bcoz they tend offer more turn for the spinners. Why is he not suited for Indian wickets? As for Doherty, well, he is a good ODI bowler, nothing more than that. I guess it comes down what is expected from him. If his role is to just tie up one end and may be look for 2/3 wickets on Day 4 or 5 then he should be the man. But even on turning tracks on day 4/5, would you back Doherty to run through a batting line up? I might rather back Lyon for that.

  • on March 6, 2013, 15:58 GMT

    Lyon should get chance in next 2 matches. He is best bet for Aussies....