New Zealand in South Africa 2012-13

Philander ruled out of second Test

Firdose Moonda

January 8, 2013

Comments: 99 | Text size: A | A

Vernon Philander took five wickets in the first five overs he bowled, South Africa v New Zealand, 1st Test, Cape Town, 1st day, January 2, 2013
Vernon Philander will miss the second Test after taking his eighth Test five-for in Cape Town © AFP

Vernon Philander has been ruled out of the second Test against New Zealand in Port Elizabeth, which starts on Friday, after suffering a recurrence of the hamstring injury that had him in doubt for the first Test. Rory Kleinveldt will replace him.

Philander bowled 30 overs in the Cape Town Test and took seven wickets. His six overs in the first innings saw him claim his eighth Test five-for. He had to leave the field after his final five-over spell on the third day when he felt pain in his left hamstring.

The same injury forced him to pull out of a first-class match two weeks ago and he required a two-week rest period but was ready for the first Test. With the second niggle coming so soon after the first, team management have decided not to risk Philander.

"Vernon's hamstring strain will require a seven to 10 day recovery period at the very least," Mohammed Moosajee, South African team manager - who is also a medical doctor - said. "Although he is responding to treatment received over the past few days, we feel it's unlikely that he'll recover in time for this week's Test match. With the Pakistan series less than a month away, it's not worth the risk of aggravating the injury."

South Africa's three Test series against Pakistan starts on February 2 and Philander will target that to make his return. He will have missed three of the 16 Tests since he made his debut in November 2011 through injury. He missed the Boxing Day Test against Sri Lanka in 2011 with a knee problem, the Adelaide Test against Australia because of back spasms and now this coming match with a hamstring problem.

As a result, Kleinveldt will play his third Test for South Africa. Kleinveldt debuted in Brisbane where he was so nervous, he overstepped 12 times in the match and went wicketless. But he kept his place ahead of Philander in Adelaide and, despite another 11 no-balls in the match, redeemed himself by removing the Australian top three in one second-innings spell. He has only played two first-class matches at St George's Park and this will be his first Test on home soil.

Firdose Moonda is ESPNcricinfo's South Africa correspondent

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Posted by SurlyCynic on (January 10, 2013, 19:35 GMT)

Another classic bit of analysis from LillianOZ - find reasons to ignore the series that SA easily won, then state that SA 'limped home' on the last day to take the series. Of course, it wasn't the real last day, it was the 3rd day as SA won in 3 days. And they won by 5 wickets which is a big margin in a match where no innings reached 200. But once again don't let facts get in the way of a good rant!

Posted by goutamaniad on (January 10, 2013, 12:19 GMT)

@maaanii: Whatcha doing to me, eh? laying out a sorta challenge, eh?

So listen up good, Saffas have withstood naysayers, even inarticulate ones as urself, for long and come good in consequence. And we dun mind close encounters with opponents; it suffices that our team's been winning them.

Maaanii, me maan, do me a favor and dispel ur doubts about the efficacy of Pakistan's great bowlers vs S. Africa. Do pore through the records of the 90s n be prepared to be shocked. Even their creme de la creme bowlers in Waqar n Wasim couldn't prevent a Symcox-ian barrage. Now as for ur 2007 series, u need to judge with a more unbiased eye, got that?

As for u, LillianThomson, i'll rest my case for now. I trust that u're here to be a helpful critic to Saffa cause, right?

Posted by ReverseSwingMaster on (January 10, 2013, 7:59 GMT)

@ goutamaniad: Your comments " Her ulterior motives notwithstanding, she's got the Pak supportive argumentation on as she's having this insightful feeling that a "fully deployed" Pak resources-team ought to finally KO our Saffa team.Now when has Pakistan (continually) threatened to upset S. Africa in all these years since 1992, even when they were blessed with all major assets deployed? "

When was the last time SA win comprehensively from PAK. There are always be closely fought series, now that means what. I remember 2007 series when SA had pulled their skins to just overcome only one bowler M.ASIF. And in that series GUL was injured and SHOAIB AKHTAR had played only second test which PAK had won.And still SA managed to win by 2-1. Now it shows what. I would love to see you here after PAK Vs SA series.

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 10, 2013, 3:30 GMT)

@Goutamaniad I'm not sure why Pakistan features so prominently here - I just commented on the quality of their bowlers being similar to SA's.

But some of SA's best home series since 1992 have been v Pakistan, if you exclude the corruption-tainted 94-95 Test and the 02-03 series which most of Pakistan's best players boycotted.

The 97-98 series was wonderful: 1-1, with Azhar Mahmood and Fanie de Villiers turning in legendary performances. Jacques Kallis survives from that series.

The 06-07 series was a very similar low-scoring classic, with South Africa limping home on the last day of the final Test to prevail 2-1.

If the forthcoming series is half as good, we will all be very lucky.

Posted by   on (January 10, 2013, 1:58 GMT)

S.A has a great bowling attack and I think Morne is the most dangerous bowler around at the mo, followed by Junaid Khan & Steyn. Also I think Robyn is becoming a good spinner, always attacking and not afraid to toss it up. As a Kiwi (living in AUS)its a bit hard to watch sometimes but I think it is important for these young guys to face the best in the world no matter what the outcome. Once we have Ryder,Taylor & Southee back I see some hope for us. @ Jayzuz you Aussies make me laugh, S.A were not playing their best cricket and Aus still could not win as they were just outclassed its that simple. If it was the other way round you guys would say the same. Luck is part of the game but you always have to take the opportunities when they come and ram home the advantage when you have it, something NZ desperately needs to learn.

Posted by ThemanID on (January 10, 2013, 1:37 GMT)

@LillianThomson saying duminy and du plessis are medicore. And as for England fast bowling, only Anderson is good. Broad, Bresnan, tremlett and Finn are average.

Posted by RaadQ on (January 9, 2013, 23:21 GMT)

The 3 musketeers (Phil, Steyn, Morkel) are going to dominate the Pakistani top order at home. Hopefully Pak has the sense to demote Hafeez to #4, similarly to Watson, to give him protection against the moving ball, which he cannot play. Pak also need to start grooming Jamshed for test match (improve fitness/footwork), as Taufeeq also has an ability against moving ball. In terms of Pakistani bowling, Junaid has become a complete bowler after developing the inswinger, and if they play Wahab who is good on seaming tracks & has a deadly reverse swinging yorker (best in the game right now), with the experience of Umar, they can do well. If they play Mohammad Irfan, they can say bye-bye to any hopes of even drawing the match.

Posted by Bring_back_Wright on (January 9, 2013, 22:47 GMT)

@Lillian: I asked how you compare players in different FC competitions and decide who is the best (you didn't name 10 from each country by the way - I would have thought you would have known them of the top of your head judging by your original statement). Even though you didn't answer that, it is quite clear it is just your opinion, with nothing to back that opinion up. Despite what you may think, your opinion is only as valid as the next persons.

I'm not saying Kleinveldt is a good test bowler - I think it is too early to judge him (as with many on your list). Aus definitely have a lot of potential, but mostly unproved as yet (I would add Bird to your list). Pakistan also have potential there, but Asif & Amir ruined their own careers, Gul is not in the same league as the SA bowlers (in tests), and the others, as yet have not proven themselves. Broad is hugely overrated, Anderson slightly overrated, Bresnan a decent allrounder that bowls ok, but I do like the look of the others.

Posted by goutamaniad on (January 9, 2013, 19:54 GMT)

@AnandSingh: Whatever she is, is irrelevant.

Ms. Thomson's here on one bogus modus operandi of "I like the S. African team a lot, i wanna see them do well, golly yes!! Positively!"

...and then once comfortably ensconced, opens up with the Naysayers act.

Her ulterior motives notwithstanding, she's got the Pak supportive argumentation on as she's having this insightful feeling that a "fully deployed" Pak resources-team ought to finally KO our Saffa team.

Now when has Pakistan (continually) threatened to upset S. Africa in all these years since 1992, even when they were blessed with all major assets deployed?

LillianThomson, go figure.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 18:36 GMT)

well LillianThomson is a pakistani quite clearly..dont mistake him for a kiwi

Posted by Vindaliew on (January 9, 2013, 17:33 GMT)

We've already seen so many fast bowlers in recent years lost to injury - Tait, Bond, Malinga etc.. hopefully Philander makes a full recovery and sorts out what it is he needs to do to stay injury free. Dale Steyn is currently the best not only because of his bowling ability, but also because of his conditioning and fitness which has seen him have quite an uninterrupted career.

Posted by kathers on (January 9, 2013, 17:08 GMT)

@bonobo They are both injured

Posted by bonobo on (January 9, 2013, 15:04 GMT)

Kleinveldt and Elgar havent impressed me in the few games ive seen them, but if the SA team has faith in them, they should back them. But am a bit curious about Duminy and De Lange/ Duminy had a great series in England and De Lange looked reallt dangeruos against the Sri Lankans last year. Are they injured

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 13:45 GMT)

@Jayuz, my comment wasn't about the 2nd test only. About the 2nd test, Yes, AUS played well but still didn't win, that's what I am trying to say. SA played well to save the match too. The result is draw. Doesn't matter who took how many wickets. Both team played their part.

Was AUS given only 1 chance to win in the Adelaide test? Weren't they playing the other 2? They couldn't win any of the tests. SA and AUS were given equal chance, SA came on top.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 13:26 GMT)

As an old South African fan, I am ecstatic to see our team finally living up to our potential. It sad and somewhat laughable to see so many people making rash comments on with very little merit other than their own mediocre opinions. Steyn is not getting on, fair enough he hasn't been firing with his usual tenacity but its tough when you have VP stealing all the wickets. Steyn will come into form again just like a De Villiers is coming into batting form again. Thats the nature of the game. Kleinveldt I must admit does not impress me however I will give the benefit of the doubt because lets face it we could beat New Zealand with our SA 'A' team....we have already. So lets see what the Plumstead boy can do.

Posted by Jayzuz on (January 9, 2013, 13:17 GMT)

@Shaihan Murshed, who has ever taken 20 wickets with 3 bowlers for all but 9 overs at Adelaide, the best batting track in the world? Close enough to impossible. Australia took 18 (far more than SA), and had numerous decisions overturned on the last day (du Faf given out twice, for example). That was actually a decent performance, given the circumstances. SA didn't come close to taking 20 wickets the entire Australian tour, till the last game. They were actually belted everywhere most of the time, including against Australia A. Very, VERY lucky to get away with that series, I have to say. Anyway, good luck to Kleinveldt. He can't do any worse than in AUS (but Vern was also mostly harmless). Morkel was by far SA's best bowler.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 12:50 GMT)

Some people can be really one eyed. What's the point of so called domination when they can't win the match? That just shows how poor they are. Last time I saw domination don't count into the result. If you can't win then don't whine about domination. Stop giving excuses about not being able to select your best 11. You are allowed to choose the team for yourself, it's up to you whether you choose best 11 or worst 11. No mention where SA batted out in the 2nd test to save the match. So called AUS domination couldn't take 20 wickets!!! SA won the series just accept it, don't give hypothetical statement about what could have happened. Fact is that didn't happen and at the end the result counts not how you dominated a game.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 12:38 GMT)

Is Marchant de Lange still injured then?

Posted by THE_MIZ on (January 9, 2013, 12:30 GMT)

@SurlyCynic, Well said, mate! Had me in stitches with your last post. Truly Cynical, indeed.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 12:18 GMT)

Steyn: 304, 23.68,42.1 Asif:106,24.36,48.7 #last game 2010# Siddle: 141,28.51,56.6 Morkel:168,29.86,54.4 Anderson: 288,30.39,58.8 Johnson: 205,30.63,54.7 Broad: 172,31.93,62.9 Gul: 158,33.66,58.4

Philander: 74,17.40,36.1 Junaid: 27,26.70,55.4 Tremlett:49,26.75,54.8 Finn: 70,28.22,46.7 Hilfenhaus: 99,28.50,61.3 Amir:51,29.09,56.2 #last game 2010# Starc: 28,29.32,49.2 Onions:32,29.90,50.1 Meaker:?

Posted by SurlyCynic on (January 9, 2013, 12:04 GMT)

LillianThomson: Sorry, but anyone who rates Broad 'a level above' Morkel is not being objective no matter how you try to dress it up. I agree that Amir is extremely promising, he could go on to have a great career. But Steyn has had a great career, here are quickest to 300 wickets (balls): Waqar: 12602, Steyn: 12605, Donald: 13690, Marshall 13755, Trueman 14599, Lillee 14942. That says it all.

It's also rather boring hearing how Australia 'deserved' to win the series against SA, despite being unable to take 20 wickets (the, er, point of test cricket) in either of the first two tests despite playing at home. And yes, SA lose the occasional test, they aren't perfect, but they haven't lost a series in 4 years. When Aus were dominating world cricket I suppose you were posting on here stating 'yes, they won, but England are rubbish these days', and 'besides I can go back 14mths and show you a test Aus lost'? SA aren't as good as that Aus team but your argument could be made against them

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 12:01 GMT)

LillianThomson, your rankings are hilarious. Here are the stats for some of the players you mentioned. Who is Meaker??

wkts,avg,sr Steyn: 304, 23.68,42.1 Asif:106,24.36,48.7 #last game 2010# Siddle: 141,28.51,56.6 Morkel:168,29.86,54.4 Anderson: 288,30.39,58.8 Johnson: 205,30.63,54.7 Broad: 172,31.93,62.9 Gul: 158,33.66,58.4

Philander: 74,17.40,36.1 Junaid: 27,26.70,55.4 Tremlett:49,26.75,54.8 Finn: 70,28.22,46.7 Hilfenhaus: 99,28.50,61.3 Amir:51,29.09,56.2 #last game 2010# Starc: 28,29.32,49.2 Onions:32,29.90,50.1 Meaker:?

Posted by highveldhillbilly on (January 9, 2013, 11:53 GMT)

@LillianThomson. Regarding Cook's opinion, Amir and Asif of history, their fault. Whether Amir would have been able to continue his great start is anyone's guess it can't be assumed he was going to be brilliant. Cook had only played one series aginst SA at that stage and that was in England in 08 and Steyn bowled poorly and was injured. Who cares about 2 test home defeats we didn't lose either series.

Posted by RyanStephen on (January 9, 2013, 11:44 GMT)

@Maani: "Most South Africans fans here are not able to understand what Lillian Thomson actually means. One thing is for sure SA backup fast bowlers are not as good as... The point is Does Kleinveldt have impressed many? According to me is NO."

We understood fine, and have already responded to that point you mention. Did you read my post earlier? It looks like I will have to repeat myself: How do you know how good SA backup bowlers are when you've only watched them play in one test? Why no mention of DeLange who got a 7 for on debut? I pointed out that Kallis, Steyn and Amla were all rubbish in their first test. Kallis and Amla took a long time before they showed any promise, they looked the same as Dean Elgar looks today. If LillianThomson was commenting those days, she would've adjudged Steyn and Kallis to be terrible cricketers after watching them play in one Test match. How can we take you seriously?

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 11:31 GMT)

Lermy seems to forget that not so long ago England were ranked 8th amongst test playing nations ('99)!! It was only by playing all the other teams that we progressed so quickly. Saying only the top 5 sides should play test cricket is daft. There does need to be 2 divisions of 6 teams each maybe, but the top sides still need to play the lower ranked sides occasionally. This would then fit nicely into the associate members competition, to form a proper structure for cricket.

Posted by MightyOne on (January 9, 2013, 11:09 GMT)

@lillianthomson - Any team in international cricket fields eleven players chosen to represent their country (or franchise, these days) to the best of their ability. It is not up to South Africa to prove they are the strongest team in the world right now, they've done that. Its up to the others to knock them off their perch. If other teams put out teams that exclude star players, SA simply have to say "Thanks" and win the match regardless.

Further, by your peculiar standard, I could argue that they didn't dominate the game, the other teams were just rubbish: rubbish selections, shambolic preparations, poor execution... except, oh thats right, no-one cares!Tell you what, let's have some fun with your idea and re-write the history of all the tours that Aussie side won (or why stop there, how about Lloyd's Windies?), after all, they didn't really win them did they, other team lost? It wouldn't be hard at all to make that case. Oh, and Aus top 4 fell 2 wkts short in Adelaide, innit? :O

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 9, 2013, 11:01 GMT)

@SurlyCynic - I thought I was being quite charitable to Dale Steyn.

I was flicking through old Test Match Special podcasts in the car today, and heard Alistair Cook in 2010 describe Asif and Amir as the best two fast bowlers he had ever faced. And Dale Steyn was considerably more dangerous in those days than he is now, so we have one of the world's top batsmen clearly placing Steyn at the peak of his career below two other bowlers.

My list was a subjective list of fast bowlers, and I'd have thought it was obvious that I rate the top two groups highly but that I think that the third group downwards (Morkel, Gul, Siddle et al) would not be Test players in a higher quality era.

As I keep saying, I congratulate South Africa for their win in England last year and for beating Australia narrowly after having been dominated by them for the first 2/3 of the series.

But South Africa's lead over the next 3 teams is very narrow, and you only have to rewind 14 months to see 2 home Test defeats.

Posted by proteasfan99 on (January 9, 2013, 10:45 GMT)

LillianThomson seems to have ignored the fact that we did beat Australia without their first four paceman but that was because we created tht by over bowling them and making them toil in the series so whose fault. They could have done that to our bowlers but couldnt and they failed to beat us with one man down in Brisbane and Adelaide where Kallis batted in pain. And talk about Pietersen not being around when we beat England in the final test, wasnt he around when we beat them in the first test? Please show Alviro some respect, he would walk into the New Zealand team if not captain it. A guy who has 4 test centuries in 20 matches and averages over 40 which is better than McCullum. I am a Proteas fan but I guess the comment made that Ross Taylor is not in the class of our batsmen is a bit untrue. Ross is a world class talent and so is McCullum. The feeling is that they play in a non competitive country league which does not allow them to grow as they dominate weak bowlers.

Posted by ReverseSwingMaster on (January 9, 2013, 10:43 GMT)

Most South Africans fans here are not able to understand what Lillian Thomson actually means. One thing is for sure SA backup fast bowlers are not as good as AUS, ENG and PAK have. Bowlers like STEYN,CUMMINS, STARC, AMIR, ASIF, JUNAID, WAHAB, BOND etc impressed many on their debut or in start of their career. The point is Does Kleinveldt have impressed many? According to me is NO.

Posted by SurlyCynic on (January 9, 2013, 10:42 GMT)

LillianThomson: Another mindblowingly biased post from you, entertaining trolling. Meaker who has never played a test is on a level with Morkel who is in the top 10 in the world? Broad who has a significantly worse average than MM is a level above him? Amir who is promising but has only played a few tests is on a level with Steyn? Nice going.

And keep stating that SA only beat England 'without KP', that way you won't have to remember the Oval, when SA beat a full strength England by statistically the biggest margin in test history.

Posted by GermanPlayer on (January 9, 2013, 10:23 GMT)

@LilianThomson It is not that SA does not have depth. It is just that the players performing at the test level are just too good. And the others are not getting the chance to prove they are as good. 5 of the 6 SA test batsmen average above 49. Peterson is the worst averaging 43. You call the foll players mediocre: Elgar, Rudolph, Duminy, du Plessis, Peterson. The truth is they will easily walk into any side in the world, except maybe Elgar who hasn't proved it yet. Your ideas about SA cricket are completely wrong. Even if you are right, why do you bother? Let us enjoy the short moment of glory we are having. We will choke again at the next world cup and lose to NZ in the next test 'at home'. That will make you happy but till then plz let us stay happy.

Posted by THE_MIZ on (January 9, 2013, 10:20 GMT)

@Lilian, surely if you can criticize SA cricket (as a Kiwi?), we can criticize your opinions? I really do believe that while you actually make good points, it seems you ALWAYS deliberately manipulate and overlook facts. As for injuries, when SA have had injuries in every series in the past few years! Why you mention draws without stating that most were rain-affected is beyond me. First you say, Aus were without their first choice attack and then call Hilfenhaus their 6th choice bowlers, even though he kept Mitchel Starc out of the team. I don't understand this obsession people have of 140+ kph bowlers. We've got hundreds here in SA, but unlike Eng & Aus we don't thrust them into test cricket so that everyone oohs and aahs just to watch them to break down within a few tests (Cummins, Pattinson).We learnt this after De Lange. As for your hilarious conclusion that Du Plessis is mediocre, forgot his first two tests already, have you?

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 9, 2013, 10:08 GMT)

@Ragrant - it's a weak era because there aren't many very good players in world cricket and there are no truly great ones as Kallis fades. I've been watching since 1975, and I've never seen it anywhere near so weak.

@Bring_Back_Wright (and yes, I agree with your handle). Markedly (not marginally) better quick bowlers than Kleinveldt in other countries? Quickly off the top of my head in less than sixty seconds, with the bowlers in descending order of quality. And I'll insert the initials of where I place the SA attack too ENGLAND: Anderson (=D Steyn), Finn, Tremlett, Broad (=VP), Onions, Meaker (=MM), Bresnan AUSTRALIA: (DS) Pattinson, Cummins (=VP), Starc, Siddle, Johnson, Hilfenhaus (=MM), Hastings, Cutting PAKISTAN: Asif + Amir (=DS), Junaid (=VP), Gul, Sadaf, Irfan, Wahab Riaz (=MM), Cheema, Tanvir.

Level 1: Steyn, Anderson, Asif, Amir.

Level 2: Philander, Junaid, Finn, Broad, Tremlett.

Level 3: Morkel, Onions, Meaker, Starc, Siddle, Hilfy, Mitch, Gul, Irfan, Riaz, Sadaf.

Posted by letsgoproteas on (January 9, 2013, 9:31 GMT)

LillianThomson - why is it a weak era?

We've been through this before and proved you wrong (again)...

Posted by Bring_back_Wright on (January 9, 2013, 9:20 GMT)

@Lillian...give it up, SA are deservedly the best test team ATM, give them the credit they deserve. Beat Aus and Eng away this year - making excuses about who was not playing is pathetic. Using that logic you could argue that if SA cricket politics had been different, KP would be playing for SA, not England. SA also had injuries in Australia, but using that as an excuse would also be stupid in my opinion (but the fact Duminy played no part in a whole test was unlucky!). Excuses are for losers.

I'm as disappointed as you about what has happened within NZC, but I would suggest you worry about the depth in NZ cricket, rather than your supposed lack of depth in SA.

Hope we can perform better in the 2nd test, but suspect the Pakistan series will make for a much better series.

P.S. you didn't answer my question about how you came to that conclusion re: Kleinveldt???

Posted by ian45 on (January 9, 2013, 9:01 GMT)

@sameold, you actually believe this test will see day 4, thats sad, another inside 3 days Proteas special coming up, aka clean sweep, pity its not 4 tests

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 8:46 GMT)

@Lilianthomson. New Zealand test Cricket is a joke compared to the likes of SA, England and Aus. Having said that, The only team that has beat us consistently is Australia and I have no problem with that because in they are a Test Cricket Superpower. So are England but so are SA and right now we have the greatest team in the world. Ross Taylor is not even in the same league as our top batsman and him not being there makes no difference to what the outcome of the results barring bad weather which saved NZ from humiliation in the last series. Heads up, SA 38 and NZ 4 with 13 drawn. Ouch.

Posted by grug76 on (January 9, 2013, 8:22 GMT)

bad hamstrings generally stem from a bad back which is bad news for a bowler

Posted by grug76 on (January 9, 2013, 8:21 GMT)

philander fastest to 100 test wickets??? may not play enough tests to take 100 wickets...

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 9, 2013, 8:00 GMT)

@Bring_Back_Wright I don't recall ever claiming that this ill-chosen NZ team would beat South Africa. I do remember offering to be the executioner for New Zealand's coach and selectors, although in retrospect that was slightly harsh and a long sentence of hard labour would be more appropriate.

I find it a little sad that in a weak era teams are not putting out full-strength sides. Due to the stupidity of some players we will be deprived of Amir, Asif and Butt in the Pakistan series, which would have been the Test World Championship.

And we are similarly deprived of Taylor and Ryder who are fit right now, and Vettori whose "recovery" from injury seems remarkably slow, and likely to be related to his own well-known disaffection.

I really would have been applauding South Africa as a great team if it was defeating full-strength opponents. But they won the last Test - and series - in England with KP absent, and at Perth they beat Australia without any of its first four bowlers.

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 7:30 GMT)

i want him to be fit before Pak SA Test Series as he will be a big test for Pakistani Batsman & Pakistan will have to face him with big heart . It will be good for game.

Posted by pops2 on (January 9, 2013, 6:55 GMT)

@ Lillian. You flatter yourself. Andrew Hudson certainly knows what you know, you however don't know what he knows.

I am always amazed how some of those that criticise selections somehow believe they know exactly what is happening in the change room, the domestic scene, of course the minds of the selectors and are privy to the team sentiment.

In your case, you have quite startling insight in all of these matters.

I can absolutely assure that the size of the cricket playing population is the last thing on Andrew's mind, nor is he concerned with it, because that is the province of CSA's Jacques Faul.

Having an opinion is one thing, being arrogantly opinionated is another entirely.

Posted by MrGarreth on (January 9, 2013, 6:39 GMT)

I think LillianThomson bases his opinions on very little knowledge of our countries quicks and the dynamics that are vastly different to the likes of England and Australia. I suspect you don't know of any other SA speedsters beyond Steyn, Philander, Morkel, de Lange and Kleinveldt. Which probably makes sense because you haven't looked past the players who have graduated to test level. Chris Morris, Hardus Viljoen, Ayabulela Gqamane would be a better attack than any NZ could put out (with all due respect) and yet they await their test arrival. I can tell you now that the Aussies and the English would have fast tracked those 3 into their side. As for the batting, even if it were true that we only have those 4 you mentioned, why don't you go check the rankings for where those 4 are. And if Alviro is that bad well... I hope he continues to score hundreds being that bad. Maybe you should look up Heino Kuhn, Quinton de Kock, Dane Vilas, Rilee Rossouw and back your comments up on research.

Posted by venkatesh018 on (January 9, 2013, 5:30 GMT)

@Handalf and @ the MIZ...Let me get one thing straight...I never said Steyn has become a bad bowler. I am just stating that he has lost his lethal late outswing and his best days are behind him. At his peak, Steyn's late outswing started from middle and leg stump line. Now the balls pitched on that line just go straight and only the balls pitched outside the off stump swing away, mostly harmlessly. With respect to the ball he bowled to Michael Clarke, he bowled atleast four such deliveries every over in 2010-2011.Just keep S Africa's 2012 trip to New Zealand as a benchmark and compare his strike rates before and after that series. They will be decent(41 in 10 tests)but not "Steynish". I will be very glad if Steyn proves me wrong in the future Tests because Steyn steaming in to bowl is one of the sights of World cricket.

Posted by SameOld on (January 9, 2013, 5:27 GMT)

Bad luck for Vern & SA. Good luck for NZ & anyone who wishes to see what day four looks like. Also good luck for Kleinveldt, who NZ should not underestimate. I watched the spell when he took 3 in AUS, and it was good. Very good.

Posted by Marktc on (January 9, 2013, 5:18 GMT)

Greats like Warne and Steyn had poor starts to their there it little to bas e knocking Lienveldt for.....besides...our domestic cricket is loaded with promising is the batting I fail to see Lilian's logic... Further..Steyn still has a lot to offer and like every player, is not always on top of his game now and then...but writing him off would be foolish. Sour grapes...SA are the best team and they deserve to bask in the glory while it lasts.

Posted by anver777 on (January 9, 2013, 5:04 GMT)

Philander "THE PERFECT LANDER" will be missed by SA team in the 2nd test !!!!

Posted by   on (January 9, 2013, 4:13 GMT)

Thank God! As a Kiwi I have to be happy but as a watcher of cricket I have to be disappointed. He is the best I have seen for many years!Reminds me of Sir Richard Hadlee.

Posted by ian45 on (January 9, 2013, 4:04 GMT)

@lilianthomson, judging by your past and present comments, no matter what we (South Africa) do people like you will always find fault, I bet everytime you hear the name of that poisonous flower (PROTEAS) your stomach turns like a tumble dryer, well get used to it dear, we are going to rule test cricket for a very very very long time, if you dont like it well guess what too bad, HA HA HA, lilianthomson = sour grapes LOL LOL

Posted by Gizza on (January 9, 2013, 3:05 GMT)

gzaf187, Philander averages 19 in FC cricket while Kleinveldt averages 28. Unless you mean maybe only this season or something, I don't know how you can say RK is averaging better than Philander.

Posted by Bring_back_Wright on (January 9, 2013, 1:57 GMT)

@LillianThomson: your initial argument that Kleinveldt wouldn't be in the top 10 for England, Australia, or Pakistan - what do you base this on? Gut feeling? Stats? Please do share. Surely someone as astute as you wouldn't base it on 2 tests on flat tracks against one of the best teams in the world??? Mind you, you were rubbishing Philander and talking up NZ before the first test, so really you have very little credibility in my eyes.

I agree there is a weakness in their attack, but it isn't the pacemen. In the tests you mention the frontline SA pacemen out-performed their Aus and SL counterparts (30 wickets @25.1 compared to 21 @ 30.62 for Aus/SL combined). The specialist spinner meanwhile took 7 @ 40.43, compared to 13 @ 18.23 from the Aus/SL spinners. However I think the batters were more to blame in those 2 losses, but even very good teams lose sometimes!

Kleinveldt will have a point to prove, I hope we can play him as well as Aus did, but lets not judge him too soon!!!

Posted by C.A-SA1987 on (January 9, 2013, 1:20 GMT)

@Posted by LillianThomson on (January 08 2013, 21:56 PM GMT)

Although i don't always agree with your comments, i can see that you're not a "troll".

Your comments are genuine and thoughtful, although ill-timed on occasion.

We, as Proteas, are a humble and cautious bunch. We have been burnt before, and as such, we are skeptics by nature.

However, recent fortunes have led us to perhaps become a bit more boisterous in our support as we have seen Indian, English and Aussie fans slag us off time and time again, claiming that "we're not worthy" (as if they are..pffft)

Steyn this, Philander that.. Yes, our team is not perfect, its not the best of all time or anything silly like that. Injuries happen, people retire, and key players lose form. This is not unique to us, but applies to all teams (clearly).

So when people in glass houses toss stones at us, we tend to want to hurl boulders right back at them.

This explains the "misunderstood criticism".

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 9, 2013, 0:31 GMT)

@Pops2 I think Andrew Hudson knows precisely what I know.

Which is that South Africa has a small cricket playing population base and is blessed with 4 really good batsmen (Smith, Amla, Kallis, de Villiers), one superb fast bowler who is slightly past his best (Steyn), one very good medium-pacer who is lethal on helpful surfaces but mediocre elsewhere (Philander), one slightly above average tall, bouncy bowler (Morkel) and one upcoming raw speedster (de Lange).

That is good enough in a weak era to narrowly be the number one Test side.

But he also knows that the back-up in terms of batting is mediocre (Elgar, Rudolph, Duminy, du Plessis, Peterson), the spin bowling is useless and the back-up quicks are inferior to the other major nations' back-up quick bowlers.

Australia's 6th and 7th choice quicks are Hilfenhaus and Johnson. England's are Tremlett and Onions. But Kleinveldt is South Africa's 5th choice.

Posted by Lermy on (January 8, 2013, 23:37 GMT)

Only the top 4 or 5 nations should play test series against each other. The rest should play themselves for the right to then play a promotion-relegation series against the lowest ranked of the top sides. That way we do away with these pointless one sided series that no one wants to watch. In all honesty this NZ side has more chance of flying to the moon by flapping their arms then in beating SA. Only the morbid fascination of seeing whether they can be dismissed for less than 26 keeps me watching!

Posted by gzaf187 on (January 8, 2013, 23:00 GMT)

@Lilian x2: Also, I think you're only looking at SA's 2012 results from a biased point of view. If you look at the 5 draws, you get: - 2 vs NZ, which would have been W's if the rain had not interfered - 1 vs Eng, which required probably the 2nd best innings of 2012 (the best being Amla's 196 in perth) from KP to deny SA. Fair play to him - sometimes great batsmen can deny great bowlers. - 2 vs Aus, 1st test - Flat flat wicket. 2nd day rained out with SA on 280/3, game destined for a draw. I seriously doubt SA would've played the way they did, if day 2 was not rained out, but I guess we'll never know. Also, SA played with 10 batsmen and big Vern injured. Still, I don't see how Aus was even remotely close to winning this game. 2nd test - Another super-flat wicket. Warner and Clarke have a day where EVERYTHING comes off for them, great innings both, but extremely lucky as well. Aus score 500 in day 1 and ... still do NOT win the test 3rd test - 1st non-flat wicket = total annihilation

Posted by gzaf187 on (January 8, 2013, 22:47 GMT)

People dismiss averages of 30 in completely flat wickets like it's not an achievement .. boggles my mind how little they understand cricket. Do you understand that an avg of 30 equates to a score of 300 all out, in a FLAT wicket!! .. which means sides are on average being bowled out in 1 day, more or less. I'll take that any day of the week, in a flat wicket! Would be interesting to see how much worse (and I'm sure its worse) the opposition have fared on these kind of wickets. And I'm tired of hearing how SA could have lost the first test in Aus .. if you knew anything about cricket, you would know that that match was destined for a draw as soon as the 2nd day was rained out. Just because Aus got a few more wickets when SA was trying to up the run rate and make a game out of nothing, doesn't mean that the aussies deserved to win that game. Please, enough of this!

Posted by gzaf187 on (January 8, 2013, 22:42 GMT)

@Lilian: I'm sorry, I fail to grasp what you are getting at. Are you actually trying to argue that SA's bowling line-up is weak?? Are you telling me that Aus, Eng, NZ, Ind, Pak, etc etc wouldn't kill to have the bowling attack that SA has? Come on .. I know you're sour about the defeats - but hold some perspective! Jeez.

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 8, 2013, 21:56 GMT)

I don't understand the posts on here which criticise my comments.

Everyone agrees that the wickets in 2012 on which South Africa played were marginally limited in terms of pace and bounce, which is why both Philander and Steyn were reduced to averaging 30 runs per wicket except in NZ where the opposing batsmen were sub-standard.

South Africa's results in 2012 were:

In NZ: W1 D2 In England: W2 D1 In Australia: W1 D2

So they won 4 Tests and drew 5 (of which they could have lost 2 easily).

Good results. But if you rewind just 2 days further back into 2011, they lost at home to Sri Lanka in Durban by 208 runs. Rewind back another 5 weeks, and they lost at home to Australia at The Wanderers.

The SL defeat was to a team which scored 338 and 279. The Australia defeat was to a team which scored 296 and 310-8.

This tells me that in the last 13 months, SA has twice lost home Tests by its inability to finish off the opposition for low enough totals.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 21:50 GMT)

Kleinveldt only replaced Philander in Adelaide because Philander was injured. Misleading article from Moonda as usual.

Posted by cricketlord2011 on (January 8, 2013, 21:36 GMT)

Well at least Kleinveld in for Philander might even it up ever so slightly. NZ selectors should've been on the phone to Taylor & Ryder immediately asfter 1st test and swallowed their pride and gotten them to play.

Posted by LordKratos on (January 8, 2013, 21:28 GMT)

Maani is right!! Its the South african batters that win games for this team!! The bowlers have done nothing whatsoever!! Its the batters that bowled out the Wallabies for 163 in Perth and the bowlers had absolutely nothing to do with it!! Absolutely nothing!!

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 20:06 GMT)

Where's maaanii? I bet 99% of test boilers wish that their respective home stats could be as good as the Vern's away stats. Oops, just pulled a maaanii by using a made up stat (i.e. 99%). Sorry for being so maaanii-like.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 19:48 GMT)

Geez guys. Relax, RK is merely an injury replacement and it's not a case of Vern, Steyn or Morkel falling out of favour for cricketing reasons. RK has averaged under 20 for the last couple of seasons at domestic level. In fact 17,4 this season. He also took 5 wickets at 20,2 in the one match he played for SA A vs Sri Lanka A during the off-season. Additionally, given MdL 's injury, I struggle to see why his selection, to replace an injured player, is so mind-boggling. Remember MdL has match figures of 1/151 in his second (his last) test. Let's maintain some perspective here chaps.

Posted by THE_MIZ on (January 8, 2013, 19:15 GMT)

@ScumsieFraudneer, to answer your question please look at RK's stats for the last 3 seasons in domestic cricket and in particular this season i.e. Average of 17.4! If that's not good enough, then what is? Don't mistake me for being his greatest fan but if one looks at those stats, its not hard to understand his selection. I also agree that Morkel doesn't have much to show for his career stats but if you recall, he was the best bowler on the Aus tour and has been consistently good this past year. For those out there (Non-Saffers) worrying about SA's bowling depth, what a joke! Just follow the domestic scene and you'll be put at ease.

Posted by gzaf187 on (January 8, 2013, 19:09 GMT)

Amazing to see how many ppl are JUDGING RK based on 2 test matches!! There is a reason why this guy has been called up .. he was averaging better than Philander in FC cricket! Then again .. big Vern is completely useless, I forgot.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 18:36 GMT)

There's an element of truth in doubting Rory's credentials in test cricket and he will need to find his feet plus get his confidence up.It will be interesting to see the role he plays and whether he gets the new ball.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 18:30 GMT)

@maaanii. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself? You're on a site with access to all the cricket stats that you need and you still spew garbage "Philander who only take wickets in SA". Well try this for size. Philander stats are: home (away) 5(8) tests 37(37) wickets @ 12,97(21,83) runs/wicket Yes you're right, his away form is shockingly under par compared to his home form. Regarding Kleinveldt, of course we cannot judge him as world class. How can anyone be judged as world class or completely useless after only two tests. Given the rationale used by some to judge world-class potential, Kallis and Amla are also NOT world class, given their respective first two (and more) tests. NO, I am not saying that RK will become some world class super hero bowler. I'm just questioning how quickly people are to consign a player to the sub-standard or scrap heap. We accommodated Rudolph for a 2nd mediocre stint in test cricket, RK deserves more than 2 tests before being judged either way.

Posted by PaulJvR on (January 8, 2013, 18:24 GMT)

What has kleinveldt done to get into this team, another one of our selectors mind boggling selections which is based on lord knows what yet we will get told he was selected because he "hits the deck hard" or some such garbage. SA currently cannot afford to lose philander or stein and god forbid as we will be in dire straits. For all Morkels hype his record is hardly that grand for a "strike" bowler, its a real pity marchant is injured but at least Gqamane looks promising. Sadly for Tahir he must wonder what the SA brains trust is thinking with the fields he has to bowl to, which Shane Warne and other commentators (Not Supersports cliche and state the obvious specialists have been confused by. Never mind the fact we must be the only team in history who has a legspinner being ask to bowl round the wicket on day one of a match to an empty offside field (Mark Taylor actually stated it is impossible to bowl to) yes hitting with the spin and pretty much rendering his goggly (best ball) void

Posted by SICHO on (January 8, 2013, 17:45 GMT)

one thing that I've noticed is that people claim SA doesn't have world class bowlers, Steyn's glory days are over blah blah blah......... aren't Saffers (obviously). But then you look at their teams' bowling line-ups (Ind, NZ), you wonder how they know what world class bowlers are because they don't have them. Keep on consolling yourselves, at least it makes you feel better lol.

Posted by Jabulani on (January 8, 2013, 17:35 GMT)

@maaanii - hahahaha...oh...haha...aahhh... ...oh wait were you being serious?

Posted by SurlyCynic on (January 8, 2013, 17:22 GMT)

venkatesh018: Yes, Steyn has no outswinger and only gets tailenders out. Guess I imagined the best delivery of the Aus series which got Clarke out in Perth!

Posted by THE_MIZ on (January 8, 2013, 17:14 GMT)

@venkatesh018, A bit more respect for Dale Steyn, who remains World no.1 fast bowler! The truth is, Philander is picking up so many wickets and Morkel is just getting more potent by the game. He hasn't faded, its just his teammates are getting better! Did you watch the 3rd Test vs Aus? That will clear your misconception...As for his vicious outswing, WATCH CLARKE's DISMISSAL in that test i.e. the ball of the series! As someone mentioned, in the IPL Steyn bowled 150kph+. He has learnt to control his pace and use it when needed. Thats why he is also the fittest fast bowler for years. As for Smith's 'go-to' man...please read the article regarding this issue. Steyn IS our attack leader!

Posted by ReverseSwingMaster on (January 8, 2013, 16:48 GMT)

I completely agree with Lilian Thomson. Kleinvelt not world class, Steyn time has gone, Morkel inconsistent, SA have no quality spinners and Philander who only take wickets in SA. And South Africans called this bowling attack world Class. They mostly win because of their batting, their batting is very solid and have great players. Recent example is in AUS where they survive because of their batting.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 16:43 GMT)

ohh so with Vern injured its might take 4 full days to beat New Zeland instead of 2. oh well more entertainment for us

Posted by mahjut on (January 8, 2013, 16:38 GMT)

Steyn is getting on now but still managed a few wickets in aus .. even on the featherbeds. they were, of course, merely middle oreder wickets of Ponting, Clarke and hussey but wickets nevertheless ... ;) Infact, Morne and Steyn bowled pretty well there on pretty flat wickets (Starc - and Johnson - have better series stats but they only played the last game on the only competitive wicket) - Steyn got 3 of the top 4 in that game. fact is people see what they want to see ... and i want to see Steyn stick around for at least 2 more years - and hopefully try to find the inswinger (which he still does ... less than before) as it really did increase his deadliness and he's not exploiting it (maybe it takes a little more effort than the others).

Posted by Gareth_Bain on (January 8, 2013, 16:21 GMT)

You guys are seriously underestimating Kleinveldt based on his debut on a flat pitch in a foreign country. Those are trying conditions for any debutant to adjust to. There's a reason why he was outperforming Philander in the early season domestic matches... He has learned the same style of bowling as Philander has only he has a bit more pace only not quite the same ability to move the ball. Mind you a lot of people on ESPNCricinfo are still in denial about Philander too.

A year ago I'd have said after Kleinveldt and Ryan McLaren our bowling options drop off dramatically, but quite a few younger bowlers have put their hands up recently... Morris and Abbott for instance (though both are injured) and I'm quite intrigued to see Savage and Gqamane (though he seems too darned short!)

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 16:19 GMT)

venkatesh: I doubt you've been watching SA play over the past two years, then, mate. Case in point: South Africa versus Australia, 3rd Test. Smith wins the toss, bats, and SA are skittled for 225. Smith needs someone to do something special. Cue Dale Steyn. He gets Cowan before stumps on the first day, then returns the next morning with a masterful display of controlled late outswing to rip the heart out of Aus's batting line-up with three quick wickets, including a rip-snorter of an outswinger that squared Michael Clarke up like a grade-school novice, leaving Aus dangling at 45/6. So don't forget who the real strike force is when Smith's looking for something special. Vern's had incredible success over the past year, yes, but much of that can be attributed to the danger that Steyn poses at the other end. Batsmen relax a bit when he's not steaming in. Even when he bowls well within himself at 135kph his line, length, and swing are difficult to contend with, as are his bouncers.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 15:57 GMT)

The more people slag this South African bowling attack for being overrated, the more I enjoy their success. Big Vern is extremely skilled and will continue to excel - though not to these extreme levels - for years to come in all conditions. That's what happens when you have perfect control over line and length and can get just enough movement from a prominent new ball seam to nip about a bit. Morkel is only just hitting his prime now, and Dale Steyn hasn't lost pace - his 150kph spells during last year's IPL are clear evidence of that - he just saves his all-out bursts for when the time to strike is ripe. It's clever resource management and the sign of a truly savvy craftsman. This attack combines all the variations you need from a pace trio (pace, bounce, seam movement, swing, etc.) into a strike force which is developing a true instinct for the kill. So keep it up, doubters - it's highly entertaining watching you all chew on your own feet!

Posted by venkatesh018 on (January 8, 2013, 15:55 GMT)

@highveldhillbilly-I wasn't discussing Safrica's batting line-up but just stating my opinion on what I see on TV. Many may disagree but Dale Steyn's glory days are over unless he somehow miraculously recaptures that Late Outswing with which he cleaned up Michael Vaughan in his first season or with which he produced his unforgettable spell against India at Cape Town 2 years ago, troubling everybody including the little master. Steyn will still get the odd wickets every innings(mostly the tail and lower middle order) but he will take far more overs to get those wickets. Philander is S Africa's best Test match bowler by a country mile and he is the go-to man for Graeme Smith when he needs a wicket. Smith & Co. will miss him the most.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 15:47 GMT)

Yikes! Is Kleinveldt the best we have as backup to the big 3? We need a fit Marchant back.

Posted by Mitch1066 on (January 8, 2013, 15:36 GMT)

Yeah clearly South Africa are poor team not! Only got best bowling unit in world! And there batsmen are quality kallis best all rounder in world!. Shame bout veron get over your injury and come back with your best game . I'm English fan yet I see South Africa team for amazing unit they are. Only three positions I'm not sure about the opener with smithy is pietersen right man? Spinner you don't seam have any world class spinners and number six as. Smith amla kallis. Avb faf etc are top knotch . But don't get me wrong pietersen good player though.

Posted by Toxicbite on (January 8, 2013, 15:03 GMT)

Lillian just makes me laugh. Come on people. A troll is a troll. Haters gon hate. Let's keep it moving...

Posted by EnglishCricket on (January 8, 2013, 14:57 GMT)

New Zealand are missing so many key players Taylor, Ryder, Vettori, Southee etc otherwise you wouldn't be seeing 45 all out.

Posted by highveldhillbilly on (January 8, 2013, 14:57 GMT)

@venkatesh018 & Lilian Thomson. And AB is an awful batsmen now that he keeps, Kallis is over the hill, Amla has been very luckly for the past 4 years, Smith is useless etc etc. Wow now that I have read your amazing analysis I now know SA is actually a poor cricket side. And for the past 6 months I've been thinking they're #1 in the world and undefeated away from home for the past 7 years. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Posted by TommytuckerSaffa on (January 8, 2013, 14:57 GMT)

Im gutted that Big Vern is out as I want him to break the record for the fastest to 100 wickets. In saying that its better he is fully fit for PAK who are looking pretty good these days and to me are the 3rd best team in the world at the moment.

I think Kleinfeld was very poor on debut but in this 2nd test he really bounced back strongly with repectable figures in the 2nd innings in Adelaide. SA have to much talent coming back from injury and emerging that im not bothered. Look forward to seeing Gqamane and de Kock in national colours at the highest level.

Posted by shanks1987 on (January 8, 2013, 14:30 GMT)

Lillian I thought by now after reading all your posts before the first test you might reconsider your cricket opinion and possible swallow your words but doesnt seem so. Before the first test SA were a good side who were just lucky to catch others in a time of transformation with a few decent players in your opinion.Yet in the last year we dethroned England at full strength! The Auzzies tried 3 different bowling lineups to win a test and SA are still number 1. Now we are against a terribly underpar NZ team. I am not sure who you support but let us SA supporters worry about our own lineup and you about yours? Either way if Kleinveldt is as poor as you say, he would be the number 1 seamer in the NZ side.

Posted by SICHO on (January 8, 2013, 13:46 GMT)

I don't know why most people think NZ might have a chance with Philander absent, matter of fact this series is only for our cricketers to better their averages both bowlers and batsmen. NZ is far from competitive even without our star players. I wouldn't be suprised if the upcoming test also ends on day 3 or 4.

Posted by GermanPlayer on (January 8, 2013, 13:37 GMT)

@LilianThomson Dude, let's agree that Kleinvelt won't make it into the top 10 of those countries. Philander we know is an over-rated bowler, will fail in the subcontinent. Steyn has lost the pace and Morkel is highly inconsistent. Add to that the fact that SA have no quality spinner in their line up. Now also remember that barring Philander who is a recent arrival, SA have used more or less the same attack for the last 6 years. THey still continue to remain unbeaten away from home. I fail to understand why that is when they have such bad bowlers?

Posted by SurlyCynic on (January 8, 2013, 13:36 GMT)

Unlike LillianThomson I actually follow SA domestic cricket, and when the likes of Morris and De Lange return from injury and Gqamane gets some more experience I think we're well covered in terms of bowling depth. Kleinveld is a solid workhorse rather than an impact bowler, but that's the role he needs to perform to balance the attack. You wouldn't replace Philander with De Lange, he would be backup to Morkel.

Posted by DeckChairand6pack on (January 8, 2013, 13:34 GMT)

SA selectors have been pretty good with giving new guys a decent run and opportunity to show what they can do. As pointed out, DS, JK and HA were woeful in the beginning of their careers. Not a lot to gain by discarding Kleinveldt so quickly. He was awful on debut but this would be the perfect opportunity to give him another go. Just please pitch it up!

Posted by 2nd_Slip on (January 8, 2013, 13:34 GMT)

@lilianthompson i dont see how that would bother kleinveld or anyone for that matter england australia and pakistan are far inferior to south africa so making to a better side surpasses making it in a nation with less competitive resource. And i dont need to remind you about what you said about philander before he ripped your weak new zealand apart , i wish kleinveld does the same

Posted by pops2 on (January 8, 2013, 13:19 GMT)

Lillian, Andrew Hudson & co seem to know something you don't. I wonder what that might be.... perhaps cricket and cricketers?

Posted by letsgoproteas on (January 8, 2013, 13:18 GMT)

LillianThomson - you could argue the top 10 paceman for eng, aus and pakistan wouldnt make it into the sa team.

Move along - your posts are the same old drivel every time.

And before you post... lets see how many of the kiwi wickets Kleinveldt takes.

Posted by   on (January 8, 2013, 13:12 GMT)

@LillianThomson: How would you know? Dale Steyn, Jacques Kallis and Hashim Amla were all pretty rubbish in their first Test matches

Posted by venkatesh018 on (January 8, 2013, 13:08 GMT)

I agree with Lilian Thomson. Kleinveldt is definitely not international standard. Steyn is not the force he used to be 18 months ago(his late outswing has disappeared since last years tour to New Zealand). Morkel looks the only wicket-taker and he too is highly inconsistent. The Kiwi batsmen should use this opportunity to score big in the second Test.

Posted by Highflyer_GP on (January 8, 2013, 12:48 GMT)

Some good news for NZ :D

Posted by LillianThomson on (January 8, 2013, 12:35 GMT)

I understand that Marchant de Lange is not yet fit, but if Rory Kleinveldt is next in line then South Africa has a major problem lurking down the track.

Kleinveldt wouldn't be one of the top ten pacemen in England, Australia or Pakistan, in fact he arguably wouldn't make the top twenty in any of those countries.

Posted by Shazli on (January 8, 2013, 12:15 GMT)

well he secured himself for Pakistan series....nice to c him in cracking series against Pakistan....who let down india in indian soil....

Posted by shortsillypoint on (January 8, 2013, 11:49 GMT)

Hooray for NZ - I think? With the NZ lineup the No 8 bowler might be too dangerous though.

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