Ireland news

Ireland submit plans for more ODIs

Ger Siggins

April 15, 2012

Comments: 47 | Text size: A | A

Craig Kieswetter fell to John Mooney as England struggled in damp conditions, Ireland v England, only ODI, Clontarf, August 25, 2011
Ireland want the chance to play the Full Members more often © Getty Images

Ireland would play 12 to 15 one-day internationals a year if the ICC approves their ambitious proposals to be given further challenges to take recognition of their rising standards.

Warren Deutrom, the chief executive, told the Cricket Ireland annual meeting that the ICC has received its submission and it will be go before the ICC board meeting in June for final approval. Under the proposals, ICC will help to identify gaps in the existing Future Tours Programme where Ireland can be accommodated for ODIs.

Cricket Ireland has made the case that it has rapidly outgrown its fellow associates and needs further challenges. The senior side, coached by Phil Simmons, has won 30 of its last 33 games against associate members of ICC. And in recent years Ireland has also beaten Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, West Indies and England.

Deutrom told the meeting that he hoped ICC would adopt the bulk of the Woolf Report, which he described as "better than our wildest dreams" and potentially the key moment in the history of the game's ambition to be a world sport.

While Ireland gets funding from ICC, Deutrom pointed to the disparity between its $685,000 grant compared to the $7-9million received by full members, who are also guaranteed participation in ICC tournaments and the FTP.

"Our battle is to convince ICC to fund cricket nations on the basis of merit and need, not of entitlement," Deutrom said.

The newly-announced plan also seeks ICC funding for an ambitious academy structure which will see the best young talent nurtured in both the north and south of the island.

While at times over the past decade the senior side has relied on naturalised players, the Irish system has produced some startlingly good players, with three - Ed Joyce, Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin - playing for England at various levels and new stars such as George Dockrell and Paul Stirling attracting the covetous ECB.

There are currently ten Irishmen contracted to English counties - which is more than Pakistan and West Indies put together when you discount the fly-in fly-out Twenty20 players.

The third item on Deutrom's shopping list is ICC's assistance in progressing the non-existent domestic first-class structure. At present the game is based on club leagues in three unions, based around Dublin, Derry and Belfast. The ambitious plan is to form these districts into an inter-provincial structure similar to the successful Irish rugby provinces.

This last point is seen as crucial for the development of the game and helping Ireland to continue to produce top players.

The AGM in Dundalk also elected Jimmy Joyce of Merrion as president for 2012-13. Joyce is father of five Irish internationals, including Ed, currently at Sussex, and Ireland women's captain Isobel. The respected veteran journalist Robin Walsh was named as president-elect.

© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.

Posted by murmur on (April 18, 2012, 15:16 GMT)

@clarke101 I am baffled by your comment about England not approaching players playing for other countries. They invited the Irish bowler Boyd Rankin to training sessions for fast bowlers, and then called him up to play for England Lions. How else would you describe that? And I am sure they will try it again for Paul Stirling. Players may make noises about being willing to play for England if asked (and why wouldn't they if they play for Associates - they have no choice if they want to play test cricket) but ultimately it is England's decision.

Whether you regard it as "acquisitive" or "giving opportunity" probably depends on which team you support. But you can't deny it happens!

Posted by shillingsworth on (April 18, 2012, 8:04 GMT)

@murmur - You state that England approach players who are representing other countries. There is no evidence of this. Nor does it make any sense. The ECB cannot offer an Irish player a place in the England side, any more than they can make a similar offer to any other qualified player signing their first county contract. You are correct that England do not have to select Irish players, even if they are qualified. I would suggest that they would not do so if it was actually damaging to the development of cricket in Ireland. The sole judge of this is Cricket Ireland, who have said nothing to encourage such a view. You appear to have given up on the idea that Strauss and Prior are South African in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Perhaps you need to apply the same standard to your statements about Irish players.

Posted by cricket2011 on (April 18, 2012, 6:14 GMT)

When BCCI invite IRELAND to India ? I wish to see their performance in India.

Posted by murmur on (April 17, 2012, 12:37 GMT)

@clarke501. Classifying England players on land of birth at least makes more sense than assuming all Irish players are foreign based on zero facts whatsoever, as done by Yevghenny in the post I was replying to. As to your other points - players gain residency because of day jobs playing in county cricket. However I can't imagine any kind of set up where anybody who is qualified by residency or birth to play for England can just turn up on the next tour. The invitation comes from England, not the other way around! The ECB doesn't have to approach players that are already playing for other countries. But they do. Don't know how you could describe it as other than acquisitive, given the wealth of talent already at their disposal.

Posted by AdrianVanDenStael on (April 17, 2012, 11:26 GMT)

@Meety: while I would like Ireland to get more matches against full members, I think the tri-series vs. bilateral series debate is more complicated than you suggest. I notice for instance that Cricket Australia can't seem to make up his mind which of these is better, and ditched the tri-series for a few series after 2006-7 (possibly in annoyance at Australia losing the final to England), before bringing them back this year. The problem with tri-series featuring one less prestigious or weaker team was illustrated by the series in England in 2005 and 2001; the qualification stage is basically a long formality, in 2005 only brightened up by Australia losing to Bangladesh, and in 2001 not brightened up at all because England were rubbish. By the way, while the last England-Australia ODI series finished 6-1 to Australia, the last such series in England finished with England winning the trophy. "7-0" has never happened in such a series; shutouts are more likely when England play Asian teams

Posted by Meety on (April 17, 2012, 11:16 GMT)

@Busie1979 - that idea comes up a bit, I wouldn't mind in T20s & maybe in List A, but I wouldn't want the Shield buggered up by having extra teams from another country. Whilst I would like to see Oz do it's bit, the only way I can see it happenning is via the Futures League. Maybe the recently completed Emerging/U19s comp recently held in Oz could be expanded for Affiliates? The ICC have got the pathways clearer over the last 5 or 6 years, with the Intercontinental Cup, which is dominated by Afghanistan & Ireland. The only thing the ICC hasn't got right is getting the "Star" up & comers like Afghanistan & Ireland regular top flight competition & a clear guideline of what boxes need to be ticked for Test status. Ireland are already better equipped than what Bangladesh were 12 yrs ago, but I think they are a long way from Test recognition.

Posted by Busie1979 on (April 17, 2012, 5:51 GMT)

The best associates could be invited to participate in list A / first class / T20 cricket competitions ala ireland and scotland in England, Netherlands in West Indies T20. They could play in Aus one season, NZ another, India the next etc. If they start making an impact, then they should progress and play more internationals against top nations. Not sure how realistic this is, but it would be a guage of how ready they are to compete .

Posted by Meety on (April 17, 2012, 3:40 GMT)

@Manmath Deshpande - yes good point re: Kenya. That being said, Kenya's plight did involve a lot of in-house issues. The Kenya situation however, IMO, led to the ICC getting more serious about development paths for the Associates to gain ODI/Test status. The Intercontinental got beefed up, & we had better pre-qualifying for major events for the Associates, I think Afghanistan & Ireland have benefitted the most from this. Lots of room for improvement, but this is one area the ICC have pulled their socks up on!

Posted by Meety on (April 17, 2012, 3:36 GMT)

Annoyed that my previous post didn't make it. So I'll start again. An EASY way to factor in more games for Ireland involves ditching 7-match bilateral ODI series. Most fans get bored of any bilateral series more than 3 matches with respect to ODIs. Take for example the upcoming Oz v England series, (who wants to see Oz thrash Eng 7nil? -LOL!) Instead of a 7 match bilateral series, they could make it a 6 match tri-series + a "Final" by including Ireland. Ireland have a respectable record against England- beating them inthe W/Cup & running them close fairly recently in Ireland. It would be each team plays each other TWICE, with the two top teams playing a final. Having a Final would be (IMO), far more marketable than any other individual match of a 7 game bilateral series. The only way it would flop in this instance is IF Ireland was too win thru to the final, (particularly at the expense of England). That scenario would boost overseas demand for the final - also cricinfo would meltdown!

Posted by Nerk on (April 17, 2012, 1:26 GMT)

Obviously Ireland should play touring sides. When a team tours England, they should play a first class fixture and a couple of ODI matches against Ireland. That would ensure Ireland had at least two international teams play in Ireland a year. Whilst it would be great for Ireland to tour other nations, the real problem is scheduling and finance. An annual series against England would be great however.

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 22:29 GMT)

@Yevghenny, are you serious?. Most of Ireland's players aren't from Ireland?.

Porterfield, Stirling, Joyce, Niall & Kevin O'Brien, Wilson, Mooney, Dockrell, Rankin, White are all Irish. Johnston & Cusack aren't from Ireland.

So where did you get this from?. The ICC promised Ireland 10-15 ODI'S the Test nations every year after the 2011 World Cup. While in 2011 we played three ODI'S and this year we have one ODI in our fixture list. How can this be fair?...

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 22:15 GMT)

They need tours with the lower teams such as the WI, NZ, Bang and Zimbabwe such as 3 ODI's and one T20 each year, one off games are stupid because the other teams don't take it seriously. Afghanistan should also be playing the lower nations in proper series.

Posted by shillingsworth on (April 16, 2012, 22:01 GMT)

@murmur - How do you conclude that the England team for the last test contained 4 'overseas players'? I understand the point regarding Trott and Pietersen, although both have dual nationality. Presumably you regard Strauss and Prior as overseas players on the basis that they happen to have been born in South Africa. Given that they both moved to England in childhood, are British nationals and have only played representative cricket in England, this is absurd. Please note also that England do not 'nab' any players. The player makes the decision to qualify for England.

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 18:51 GMT)

Ireland should get at least one ODI series in every alternate year against four bottom ranked teams of ICC ranking. Currently they are NZ, WI, BAN and ZIM. I am sure they'll learn a lot from these tours and we will be able to see improvement in their WC performances, when they join other biggies. Also, these tours should be criteria based, such as winning > 85% of matches against other Associates should automatically qualify any country for such kind of tours.

Posted by virendra_s on (April 16, 2012, 16:14 GMT)

It would be very difficult to get ODIs against IND,ENG,SA. Even against AUS there is only one ODI . The Best chance to play against a competitive team is against PAK . Ireland Go Grab it. All the best.

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 14:52 GMT)

i think yes they should play but i think they should be touring more Rather than other teams coming to Ireland as they will be playing in gaps of FTP and should don't disturb rests of other teams and will give them better exposure but other teams should also be going to Ireland but to play at least a 3 match series and maybe a t20 I. Will love to see Ireland do well

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 14:36 GMT)

Ireland should play more ODIs and try to raise their rankings. ICC has said that only top 8 teams will be automatically qualified for world cup.... 2020 is too far. Ireland should try to beome full member before 2019....

Posted by jaycee71 on (April 16, 2012, 13:54 GMT)

It would be good if every touring team to England played a 4 day game in Ireland instead of a meaningless warm-up against what usually turns out being a county 2nd XI. There could also be an annual 4 day match between Ireland and the England Lions. The ICC also need to give Ireland a clear road map leading ultimately towards Test status. The likes of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh were given Test staus on the basis of good World Cup performances, and there is no reason why Ireland should be held back. By the way, don't blame England for "nabbing" or "coveting" Irish players, if Irish players are willing to go through the qualification process to play for England, that is their decision, they still have to be good enough when the time comes to be chosen, but if a player (like Ed Joyce) wants to go back to Ireland, they shouldn't have to wait 4 years to do so.

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 13:48 GMT)

i m thinking about the tri series between Pakistan Ireland and Afghanistan in pakistan. if this happen in pakistan this will boast the moral of pakistan as it is a safe place for all test plying nation and also a good contest between them .

Posted by Abhishek.2626 on (April 16, 2012, 12:18 GMT)

Ireland definitely deserve a lot more. They shud be nxt in line to get test status. They ve developed the sport rapidly in their country and ICC shud encourage them even more. unlike BD which took ages to reach their current level, and still are not worldclass. Ireland along with Afghanistan are scripting a "srilanka" story, growing real fast thru the cricketing world. And coming to funding.. it shud be based on merit.. for example.. the top 3 associate nations each year should be getting a lot more than 600k . this would make the other associate nations strive even harder.

Posted by cricket2011 on (April 16, 2012, 12:01 GMT)

Not only Ireland But Also AFGHANISTAN, NEDERLANDS should play atleast 10-15 games against Test nations every year.

Posted by Anil_Koshy on (April 16, 2012, 11:56 GMT)

Ireland should be encourages to play more against test playing nations, in fact teams like Ireland,Nepal, Holland, Scotland, Afganistan, Kenya and Namibia should be encourage. These team have natural talent and do not rely on expatriates like Canada, UAE and USA. ICC please do something to ensure that Ireland does not go the Kenya way.

Posted by murmur on (April 16, 2012, 11:27 GMT)

@Yevghenny - Just looked at Ireland's last match (test against Afghanistan) and England's (2nd test at Sri Lanka). Ireland had three overseas players in there. England had four. So "most" of the Irish team not being Irish is clearly untrue.

England has plenty of home-grown players - constantly nabbing overseas players does seem a tad covetous. Especially when it seems they take more than they really need - how long before Morgan is deemed surplus to requirements, as Ed Joyce was - whereon they have to restart the long re-qualification process for Ireland again. You can't blame the players for snatching at the opportunity - but I think it's likely England will come sniffing at Boyd Rankin and Paul Stirling out of the Irish team soon which is very frustrating for anybody trying to build up Irish cricket. And how fair is that on the English players too?

Posted by Jafakash on (April 16, 2012, 11:16 GMT)

Ireland must be Test playing country as they have the potentiality....

Posted by cricket2011 on (April 16, 2012, 10:49 GMT)

For the first 5 years, Ireland should play at least 20-30 International games with Test nations.

Posted by Shafin1987 on (April 16, 2012, 10:39 GMT)

I want to see them playing against us (BD) more n more.........they r very good side.

Posted by Vilander on (April 16, 2012, 10:07 GMT)

Hope Ireland can become a test team soon, best of luck from India :)..BD has already become a good team next it would be Ireland..

Posted by Yevghenny on (April 16, 2012, 9:35 GMT)

A lot is made of Ireland's best talent playing for England, but none of them have gone on to any success in the test arena, and only Morgan you could say has done anything in the ODI side. Ireland will need a lot stronger pool of players to choose from if they take test cricket seriously. For all the talk of Irish playing for England, most of the Ireland team are not from Ireland themselves, so perhaps people should look a bit more closely at Irish cricket before laying into England for giving these players opportunities Ireland can't. At least by playing for England they get the chance to perform in the biggest games

Posted by loki897 on (April 16, 2012, 8:57 GMT)

Come on Ireland! If I was ICC or FTP manager I would put in tours with full members and tri-series with bangladesh and zimbabwe. I think ECB should stop being mean to Ireland by taking away their talented players such as Eoin Morgan, Ed Joyce. STOP IT NOW!!!!

You get the talent ireland. Can't wait to see a three test match series between Ireland and India.

GO IRELAND! GO and beat full members.

Posted by Irelandcricketfan on (April 16, 2012, 8:54 GMT)

Come on, ICC. Play fair and give us a crack.

Posted by shillingsworth on (April 16, 2012, 8:52 GMT)

The artricle refers to the 'covetous ECB' in the context of Irish players based in England. This is nonsense. An Irish player contracted to an English county is free to continue representing Ireland or to qualify for England. The ECB neither encourages counties to sign top Irish players nor forces those players to qualify for England and cease all contact with Ireland. It is the player's choice. Joyce played for England and has subsequently represented Ireland - hardly the actions of a 'covetous ECB'.

Posted by niyasindian on (April 16, 2012, 7:43 GMT)

Ireland should b given test status soon... its d time teams lyk india, aussie, eng, pak n all to play their A teams wt ireland.. Most of the test teams r doing something to promote associate countries.. lyk pak had a ODI Series wt afghanistan, Namibia is playing in South africa domestic cricket, Irish players,scotland n holland in Eng domestic, Canda in WI, And even Bangladesh playing Associate players in BPL, and moreover Kenya also helping Uganda to play in their domestic T20 league where uganda surprised most of the kenyan teams n reach in final.... BUT ...... I wonder why India, the most powerful Nation in d cricket world, not doing anything to promote Associate Countries????????????????????????????

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 6:41 GMT)

Kenya should have been given more and more One day games after reaching the semi finals of the World Cup in 2003, instead they played 2 games till 2006 from 2003! Ireland shouldn't go that way. Give them more games. And give Kenya more games too. Kenya were far better than Bangladesh in 2000- when Bangladesh got Test status. Kenya deserved Test status before Bangladesh.As late as 2003- 3 years into Bangladesh's Test status, Kenya were still far far better than Bangladesh- reaching the World Cup semi finals while Bangladesh lost 5 out of 6 games and 1 washout prevented a defeat to West Indies. Bangladesh even lost to Canada, while Kenya beat Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe (A very powerful Zimbabwe which had Andy Flower, Henry Olonga and all top players) and Bangladesh- 3 Test status granted teams. Kenya also gave a huge scare to India when India needed at 6.4 per over in the Super 6 match, and also a scare to Australia in the 2003 World Cup, and almost beat Australia in Sept 2002.

Posted by bonaku on (April 16, 2012, 6:21 GMT)

Great challenge for ICC. In the past ICC accused kenya for lack of ambitions. Now they can't use same for ireland. It would be interesting to see how they are going to handle this situation.

Posted by Alexei on (April 16, 2012, 6:15 GMT)

Ireland cricket is trying to build a course towards Test status... and why not? Their best talent is opting for England, they are by far the best among the associates and currently have players with experience.. The test status may not come for another 3 or so years tho.. But I'd luv to see in whites, but they'll need FIRST-class league and 4-day matches overseas as well as alot more funding

Posted by mihir_nam on (April 16, 2012, 4:42 GMT)

@China786 Well Pakistan has Good News Bangladesh is touring them, Pakistan can invite Ireland for T20 Tri Series or Odi Tri Series , they will have 2 international teams visiting them. Yes Ireland Should Play Bangladesh,Zimbabwe,West Indies in annually 3ODi series Home-Away. @Anton111 Test Status will be really good if granted soon rather than players make their way in World XI (England) just to play Test Cricket. Even if they play one T20 they cannot play for Ireland again for 4years.

Ireland should also request ICC for more A matches against Full Members like Pakistan,Sri Lanka,India,England.

Ireland Push for Test Status now rather than 2020

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 3:38 GMT)

Excellent Opportunity for PCB, Ireland need games Pakistan needs cricket at home. Invite Ireland for 3 game ODI home series. Cricket will be the winner certainly as Irish players will get a chance to showcase their talents and cricket hungry Pakistani's would get to see their team play at home.

Posted by sneeky55 on (April 16, 2012, 2:01 GMT)

icc are terrible for the associates, they never do anything useful.

Posted by Dashgar on (April 16, 2012, 1:43 GMT)

This definitely needs to happen. Afghanistan should get this as well. Ireland and Afghanistan should be treated by the ICC as future test teams. The game is popular enough in both countries for them to become powerful teams with the right development.

Posted by ultimatewarrior on (April 16, 2012, 1:01 GMT)

Why ICC should increase the grant, when they are getting almost no business from Ireland...Still if yes - then you have to increase grant for all associate countries or else you have to create some grading system...but still I can't understands why people wants to give Ireland a full status, can't they see Zim/BD are still struggling....also similar talks were raised when Kenya reached in Semifinal of World Cup 2003, but see where is Kenya today....just because of few performances people starts talking illogically........further still if people insists to accommodate Associate members with full members tours ICC have to cancel BD/Zim/WI Test status and reduce tests played by top nations as it is the only possibility..

Posted by   on (April 16, 2012, 0:56 GMT)

@ Ahmed...if you scrap the FTP boards like India, England and Australia will only schedule tours that will make them money. So smaller less profitable tours will be scrapped. Ireland will then miss out along with other established 'full' members. I the ICC need to proceed with the FTP and find opportunities for Ireland to play in gaps. A good example would be New Zealand...our summer starts in December but our earliest home tour was in January this year...Ireland could come down here at the start of our summer to kick things off. They would get a lot of support here as well!! Good on Ireland for pushing this and I hope the ICC can sort something out!!

Posted by China786 on (April 15, 2012, 23:53 GMT)

they should agree to play Pakistan in Pakistan, i am sure they can get good games there

Posted by anton111 on (April 15, 2012, 23:41 GMT)

Ireland should be granted conditional test status where the 5 day matches they play against teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and possible the West Indies would be given test status

Posted by nskaile on (April 15, 2012, 22:33 GMT)

Ireland can become a really really good side but icc needs to help them, which is highly unlikely

Posted by   on (April 15, 2012, 22:28 GMT)

Test Cricket is out of the question unless these Associate Teams can beat the top teams consistently in ODIs and T20s however these teams especially Ireland do actually deserve to play at least 10 if not more ODIs and possible some T20 games against any of the Full Members so they are not lagging behind. I know they are already playing a lot of ODIs and T20s already in the past 2-3 years especially this year but they were/are mostly against teams at their own similar level be whether its Associates or Affiliates but it should be mixed and include the Full Members if available. You could have say like a full series between Ireland and/or Bangladesh/Zimbabwe in 3 T20 games and 3 ODIs or 1 T20 game and 5 ODIs home and/or away. Cricket fans in general such as me will find this more interesting than an England v India/Australia series which constantly happens every 2 or so years. Ireland is a very young exciting team along with some of the other Associates.

Posted by   on (April 15, 2012, 22:16 GMT)

Absolutely Agree 100%! I like many others agree that the Associates should be given a lot of ODIs and T20 games against the Full Members so they can learn and develop and who knows? may produce an upset here and there but most certainly they will put up a fight even if they lose. Its boring seeing a lot of the Full Members playing each other over and over again and that's why Cricket loses interest at times and needs to be positive and bring one of the most popular sports in the World a lot forward. I personally think the FTP should be scraped and the boards along the approval of the ICC should decide how and when to make series at any given moment because the current FTP is a lot messed up and its already had an impact on Australia and Sri Lanka with the amount of games they had already. The associates especially Ireland should play teams such as Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, New Zealand and probably the West Indies if not the other higher ranked teams and these teams will won't mind.

Posted by   on (April 15, 2012, 21:57 GMT)

Sounds great, please pass it ICC!!!

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