West Indies contracts row July 23, 2009

Lloyd and Holding slam WICB, WIPA

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Clive Lloyd and Michael Holding have blamed the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) and the West Indies Players' Association (WIPA) for dragging West Indian cricket into a corner. The WICB and WIPA, which is negotiating on the cricketers' behalf, have agreed to resolve the impasse through mediation and the appointment of former Commonwealth secretary-general Shridath Ramphal as arbitrator but Lloyd and Holding said the problem would not be solved with a temporary resolution.

According to Lloyd, the leading West Indies players had become too "greedy" for their own good and their performances failed to measure up to the "obscene" amount of money they are getting paid. "When you say the West Indies team is going to withdraw from a series it is not that they are short of money. We have players who are millionaires with an average of 15.00 and they are a first-team pick," he said.

Lloyd was astonished about the fact that only three of the first-team players have a batting average of 35-plus [Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Ramnaresh Sarwan and Chris Gayle]. "We have players who are being paid $500,000 or more and they do not pay a cent in any tax. We are the only country where players don't pay any tax."

Holding, part of Lloyd's famous fast-bowling quartet that helped establish West Indies' dominance in the 1970s, said the blame lay with both WIPA and the WICB. "The WICB are a dysfunctional organisation that need to realise they are dealing with a modern game and changing times," he said. "They have been left behind due to their inept staff and an outdated board of directors, most of whom take up space instead of offering something to the organisation or the game."

As for the WIPA, Holding was not sure if certain individuals were using the players' body to actually settle personal scores with the board. "Have they [WIPA] ever produced a list of members to show whom they represent?," he said. "Are people involved with their organisation carrying chips on their shoulders or grouses with the board from their playing days?"

Lloyd was not far behind in criticising WIPA. "WIPA is not trying to achieving anything but strengthen their bank balance. When you have an association that caters to various needs of the players, you need to love the game and I do not think we have a lot of people at WIPA who are in love with the game," he said.

As an example Lloyd cites payments for West Indies' tour of England where, according to him, WIPA got away with ransom. His main grouse was why the board needed to pay the five players who had to opt out of the IPL mid-way to join England tour earlier this summer. "WICB received $2 million for the England series but our players wanted 600,000," Lloyd said. "Then we had to compensate someone for missing out on the IPL. What I can't understand why do we need to compensate and pay somebody to play for your country. That to me is nonsense. We moved up to $1.48 million but they stuck to their guns and said the board still had to compensate the players who missed out on the IPL."

Lloyd and Holding agree the WICB was, and has been, the original culprit in the case and both have had a pungent taste of the closed environment within the WICB ranks. A few years ago the pair were part of the cricket committee of the West Indies board, comprising former greats, formed to help pick West Indies cricket out of the rut it had found itself after the retirement of the Sir Viv Richards in the mid-1990s. Holding later resigned over differences of opinion with the board. Both now agree that the board needs a desperate infusion of modern professional methods of governance if the game has to progress in the Caribbean.

"It can't be a case where a board member is there for life. The honorary secretary has been around for 40 years," said Lloyd. "The solution is to include former players into its set-up as that would help administrators manage the game better once they understand clearly where the players are coming from."

Holding said the obvious damage to West Indies cricket is the way sponsors will look upon the entire entity. "The performances on the field have not been heart-warming and if the people entrusted to run the game, the people the sponsors will be interacting with directly, are made to look so incompetent, what will encourage them to get on board with West Indies Cricket?," he said. "Nothing works without sponsorship in the Caribbean. It is not a rich part of the world."

According to Lloyd, the only way for players to be on top of the bargaining is by "winning", but the WICB needs to take charge as well. "WICB needs to be in charge just like other countries' boards - Australia, England etc - are."

As a long-term solution, Holding suggested that both organisations first get their act together and become trustworthy. "They then need to copy the formula used by Cricket Australia to compensate their cricketers. It is a very equitable formula that is not a secret and both their players association and the board are happy with it."

Nagraj Gollapudi is an assistant editor at Cricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Trinitime on July 27, 2009, 19:44 GMT

    The problem goes beyond the contract negotiations. While I agree that compensation and performance are intertwined, WI cricket administrators have been far too shortsighted in their approach. The success of WI cricket during the 1976-1990 era was as a direct result of the Wes Hall Youth Coaching program. There was collaboration between the island governments, cricket administrators and WITCO. The program went into every corner of the region unearthing lads as young as age 14 and putting them through a well structured program that resulted in the Benson & Hedges annual youth tournament. We learned to play cricket the proper way and the result was manifested years later through players like Richars, Rowe, Kallicharan, Holding, Dujon, Haynes, Croft, Garner, Gomes, Logie, Julien and the list goes on. I have in the past, called for a replication of that program but alas the authorities seem to want an instant fix. If we prepare now, perhaps we can recapture glory in the next 5 to 7 years.

  • jahbless on July 25, 2009, 21:46 GMT

    I have to agree with Gustaq, these 2 made a name andliving thru west indies cricket, they fought the board for more money, better training, physio,travelling conditions and what was the result? WIPA!!! Now what would happen if WIPA was destroyed? Will things get better for players?, will they win more?, will the players even want to play under WICB? When we have a player who plays with his heart on his sleeves (Bravo), who staes that his Trinidad's Cricket club is run better than the West Indies, I have to put all the balme on the Board.Where is all the World Cup money, wat facillities have been improved. I dare say the game is nothing without the players, cause without the players there will be no money coming into our cricket. The only ones doing their job in this whole fiasco is WIPA. Mr. captain Lloyd (Dwayne Smith could have captain those teams and won), Mr. Holding, be thankful you played when it was ok to be slaved by the Control Board, but here in 2009 its time to collect dues.

  • bigerle on July 25, 2009, 3:13 GMT

    One must forgive Lloyd for not appreciating modern sporting arrangements. The nonsense about players earning obscene amounts of money must cease. Most sportsmen do not last beyond ten years. Often the money they make must last their life time if they are able to invest wisely. Concerning the situation in the West Indies, I am a tired and sad fan. Cricket is the only sport that interests me. I shall not however watch a second-string side when even the firststring is not very good. Moreover, there is no West Indian nation. There is too much insularity within the region. West Indies cricket should be disbanded. Hunte and Ramnarine has killed any enthusiasm I had for West Indies cricket. Let the islands play as single nations. Test cricket will die anyway.

  • hazeltine on July 24, 2009, 17:22 GMT

    I agree with everything that Holding and Lloyd said, but the truth is that it is up to the WICB to sort everything out and they have failed miserably. During the glory years of LIoyd and Richards they were just as pathetic, but we were winning, now that we are totally and utterly rubbish, they can play politics to their hearts content. It is up to the West Indies cricket commentators to challenge them, but all I ever hear are silly statements relating to god! I want constant constructive criticism about what is to be done to change the structure and the attitude of the players and until that is persistently addressed, the WICB will always feel that it can play politics because despite the criticisms they receive, they feel there is no challenge that is forcing them to change their attitude.

  • delboy on July 24, 2009, 14:09 GMT

    The likes of Lloyd and Holding respected former players as they are; should realise that even after they have left the game players are having to look after themselves, while they play and prepare for that day when they can no longer play. Not all are fortunate to ascend to positions of match summarisers, commentators and forge their way into the merry-go-round called the MIS_MANAGEMENT. Align the pay conditions of WI first class players with all the teams against who they compete, such is called a level playing field. Only then can we complain about underperformances. While there is money being generated by the game the people who put their lives at risk must be rewarded. Unfortunately bums on seat counts for very little as sponsorship and TV rights are the major revenue generators. Its about getting the sponsors name out there that counts!!! This happends before a ball is bowled.

  • Jeedan on July 24, 2009, 13:44 GMT

    The senior players need to put at least some pride back in our game, because at the moment we do not have any right now it is more about money than playing for pride like the south africans, australians ect. These teams when they play you can actually see that they have a motive to win but the west indies team have failed us it hurts at times to see that we loose. If they were winning often i would of supported thier actions but i can not these guys need to step up to the plate and play for pride, and i thinkthings will get better ask for Ramnarine i think he has a personal issue with the board and he is using this avenue to get back at them, i remember a statement he gave a few years ago. But the board needs to get it's act together and have some board members who have played the game to get the proper assistance that they need if this continues i feel soory for west indies cricket and the foundation that was built on it.

  • dwidfra on July 24, 2009, 5:09 GMT

    A basic rule of thumb for all of life, especially with regard to your arena of employment or business, is that you do not bite the hand that feeds you. Both WIPA and the WICB have inflicted huge bites on the cricket hand that feeds them. Having been bitten that hand should now be substantially withheld, both in terms of time and generosity. Fans, sponsors and TV rights purchasers, without which the game cannot survive, should be extremely shy to put their hands in their pockets for West Indies cricket until both WIPA and the WICB find the adult maturity to resolve their disputes, manage their affairs and improve their output appreciably. The upside to all this is that the withdrawing of the hand might be just what is needed for these two "chief players" in the regional game. It just might take starvation for them to finally and fully get their acts together. But then again we can only hope that the cricket hand lives up to the adage "once bitten twice shy."

  • RoosterPC on July 24, 2009, 4:13 GMT

    Gustaq's comparison of the current crisis in WI cricket and the circumstances during the Packer era (world series cricket) in the 1970's is overly simplistic. At that time the majority of players in world cricket were poorly paid and at levels that would put them barely above what might be considered minimum wage for playing sport full-time. As a consequence many players had to negotiate for themselves numerous contracts for work outside of cricket (such as media correspondece or consumer goods advertising) to supplement their average income. In the present situation we are talking about some guys who are perhaps earning as much as $500K (US) and not being satisfied with that as a salary. Salary at that level would put them in at least the top 5-10% of salary earners worldwide and I am sure provides for them comfortably.

  • Peligrosisimo3 on July 24, 2009, 3:23 GMT

    I realise that there are 2 sides to any story and that I may not understand fully the complexities of all the issues but I am more inclined to side with the WICB. In my view the whole purpose of Ramnarine is to embarass the WICB and the ICC. To not show up for the launch of the ICC T20 in the Caribbean and after a squad has been named to withdraw their services 2 days before a test match is just not acceptable anywhere and also disrespectful to the fans. I wonder how other international boards would react to something like this. Kp was stripped of the captaincy of England just for stating that he disagreed with the coach! And its not that the players don't have contracts but they refused to sign the contracts offered to them. I am sure that the leading players make enough money these days(more than the former greats who actually won matches.Not mediating first I think was an error.The board is not blameless in this tough. Its looking out for the players has left a lot to be desired

  • amigobyc on July 24, 2009, 2:45 GMT

    Wibbly is right on re Ramnarine. I suspect his pockets are allegedly also getting filled. The perception is - he is bed with the lawyers. Fire the Board and fire Ramnarine and then we can start to figure where to go next. We don't need this monstrosity of a Board... just 2 or 3 persons of integrity and there would also be no need for WIPA. The players would be treated fairly and their salary must have some connection to performamce. Australia and South Africa saw the importance of this long time ago... this is not like the boy Scouts..."once a scout- always a scout.' Amigobyc. Barbados.

  • Trinitime on July 27, 2009, 19:44 GMT

    The problem goes beyond the contract negotiations. While I agree that compensation and performance are intertwined, WI cricket administrators have been far too shortsighted in their approach. The success of WI cricket during the 1976-1990 era was as a direct result of the Wes Hall Youth Coaching program. There was collaboration between the island governments, cricket administrators and WITCO. The program went into every corner of the region unearthing lads as young as age 14 and putting them through a well structured program that resulted in the Benson & Hedges annual youth tournament. We learned to play cricket the proper way and the result was manifested years later through players like Richars, Rowe, Kallicharan, Holding, Dujon, Haynes, Croft, Garner, Gomes, Logie, Julien and the list goes on. I have in the past, called for a replication of that program but alas the authorities seem to want an instant fix. If we prepare now, perhaps we can recapture glory in the next 5 to 7 years.

  • jahbless on July 25, 2009, 21:46 GMT

    I have to agree with Gustaq, these 2 made a name andliving thru west indies cricket, they fought the board for more money, better training, physio,travelling conditions and what was the result? WIPA!!! Now what would happen if WIPA was destroyed? Will things get better for players?, will they win more?, will the players even want to play under WICB? When we have a player who plays with his heart on his sleeves (Bravo), who staes that his Trinidad's Cricket club is run better than the West Indies, I have to put all the balme on the Board.Where is all the World Cup money, wat facillities have been improved. I dare say the game is nothing without the players, cause without the players there will be no money coming into our cricket. The only ones doing their job in this whole fiasco is WIPA. Mr. captain Lloyd (Dwayne Smith could have captain those teams and won), Mr. Holding, be thankful you played when it was ok to be slaved by the Control Board, but here in 2009 its time to collect dues.

  • bigerle on July 25, 2009, 3:13 GMT

    One must forgive Lloyd for not appreciating modern sporting arrangements. The nonsense about players earning obscene amounts of money must cease. Most sportsmen do not last beyond ten years. Often the money they make must last their life time if they are able to invest wisely. Concerning the situation in the West Indies, I am a tired and sad fan. Cricket is the only sport that interests me. I shall not however watch a second-string side when even the firststring is not very good. Moreover, there is no West Indian nation. There is too much insularity within the region. West Indies cricket should be disbanded. Hunte and Ramnarine has killed any enthusiasm I had for West Indies cricket. Let the islands play as single nations. Test cricket will die anyway.

  • hazeltine on July 24, 2009, 17:22 GMT

    I agree with everything that Holding and Lloyd said, but the truth is that it is up to the WICB to sort everything out and they have failed miserably. During the glory years of LIoyd and Richards they were just as pathetic, but we were winning, now that we are totally and utterly rubbish, they can play politics to their hearts content. It is up to the West Indies cricket commentators to challenge them, but all I ever hear are silly statements relating to god! I want constant constructive criticism about what is to be done to change the structure and the attitude of the players and until that is persistently addressed, the WICB will always feel that it can play politics because despite the criticisms they receive, they feel there is no challenge that is forcing them to change their attitude.

  • delboy on July 24, 2009, 14:09 GMT

    The likes of Lloyd and Holding respected former players as they are; should realise that even after they have left the game players are having to look after themselves, while they play and prepare for that day when they can no longer play. Not all are fortunate to ascend to positions of match summarisers, commentators and forge their way into the merry-go-round called the MIS_MANAGEMENT. Align the pay conditions of WI first class players with all the teams against who they compete, such is called a level playing field. Only then can we complain about underperformances. While there is money being generated by the game the people who put their lives at risk must be rewarded. Unfortunately bums on seat counts for very little as sponsorship and TV rights are the major revenue generators. Its about getting the sponsors name out there that counts!!! This happends before a ball is bowled.

  • Jeedan on July 24, 2009, 13:44 GMT

    The senior players need to put at least some pride back in our game, because at the moment we do not have any right now it is more about money than playing for pride like the south africans, australians ect. These teams when they play you can actually see that they have a motive to win but the west indies team have failed us it hurts at times to see that we loose. If they were winning often i would of supported thier actions but i can not these guys need to step up to the plate and play for pride, and i thinkthings will get better ask for Ramnarine i think he has a personal issue with the board and he is using this avenue to get back at them, i remember a statement he gave a few years ago. But the board needs to get it's act together and have some board members who have played the game to get the proper assistance that they need if this continues i feel soory for west indies cricket and the foundation that was built on it.

  • dwidfra on July 24, 2009, 5:09 GMT

    A basic rule of thumb for all of life, especially with regard to your arena of employment or business, is that you do not bite the hand that feeds you. Both WIPA and the WICB have inflicted huge bites on the cricket hand that feeds them. Having been bitten that hand should now be substantially withheld, both in terms of time and generosity. Fans, sponsors and TV rights purchasers, without which the game cannot survive, should be extremely shy to put their hands in their pockets for West Indies cricket until both WIPA and the WICB find the adult maturity to resolve their disputes, manage their affairs and improve their output appreciably. The upside to all this is that the withdrawing of the hand might be just what is needed for these two "chief players" in the regional game. It just might take starvation for them to finally and fully get their acts together. But then again we can only hope that the cricket hand lives up to the adage "once bitten twice shy."

  • RoosterPC on July 24, 2009, 4:13 GMT

    Gustaq's comparison of the current crisis in WI cricket and the circumstances during the Packer era (world series cricket) in the 1970's is overly simplistic. At that time the majority of players in world cricket were poorly paid and at levels that would put them barely above what might be considered minimum wage for playing sport full-time. As a consequence many players had to negotiate for themselves numerous contracts for work outside of cricket (such as media correspondece or consumer goods advertising) to supplement their average income. In the present situation we are talking about some guys who are perhaps earning as much as $500K (US) and not being satisfied with that as a salary. Salary at that level would put them in at least the top 5-10% of salary earners worldwide and I am sure provides for them comfortably.

  • Peligrosisimo3 on July 24, 2009, 3:23 GMT

    I realise that there are 2 sides to any story and that I may not understand fully the complexities of all the issues but I am more inclined to side with the WICB. In my view the whole purpose of Ramnarine is to embarass the WICB and the ICC. To not show up for the launch of the ICC T20 in the Caribbean and after a squad has been named to withdraw their services 2 days before a test match is just not acceptable anywhere and also disrespectful to the fans. I wonder how other international boards would react to something like this. Kp was stripped of the captaincy of England just for stating that he disagreed with the coach! And its not that the players don't have contracts but they refused to sign the contracts offered to them. I am sure that the leading players make enough money these days(more than the former greats who actually won matches.Not mediating first I think was an error.The board is not blameless in this tough. Its looking out for the players has left a lot to be desired

  • amigobyc on July 24, 2009, 2:45 GMT

    Wibbly is right on re Ramnarine. I suspect his pockets are allegedly also getting filled. The perception is - he is bed with the lawyers. Fire the Board and fire Ramnarine and then we can start to figure where to go next. We don't need this monstrosity of a Board... just 2 or 3 persons of integrity and there would also be no need for WIPA. The players would be treated fairly and their salary must have some connection to performamce. Australia and South Africa saw the importance of this long time ago... this is not like the boy Scouts..."once a scout- always a scout.' Amigobyc. Barbados.

  • amigobyc on July 24, 2009, 2:31 GMT

    To some of us who for whatever reason, happen to know this as a fact - The players are getting paid as celebrities. Trust me. But, acting like spoilt brats and that is why I cannot support them and watch cricket now only FREE on TV.I know too much. The WIBC needs a complete overhaul by someone who has business acumen as it is big business now whether we want to admit it or not. I would appoint a person like Tony Cozier who has nothing to prove and loves West Indies cricket plus understnds business and the problem - let him the arbitrator to recommend a complete ovewrhaul. However, I know that is wishful thinking on my part...it makes too much sense for the Board to understand. Until, all concerned, can come to the place where we can accept this - we ain't going nowhere- ALL NEED FIRING. Amigobyc, Barbados.

  • gustaq on July 24, 2009, 1:27 GMT

    Lloyd & Holding the only two loose canons around the West Indies today. Does anyone recall the Kerry Packer ordeal. Didn't these very guys choose money over country? I am wondering who is jealous of who is making lots of money? If Holding & LLoyd were playing today they would have been $Ms too today, sorry that they were born before there time, but they have no right to criticize the current players for their good fortune. Also, I am wondering these two guys cannot stay in one organization for long without disagree and criticizing the others.

    The WIPA like any workers organization have a right to agitate for its members, that how change takes place, sorry that it is painful for a few, but ask those who don't have a union job how often their rights are been peeled away without recourse. Maybe if LLoyd & Holding had a WIPA in their days then they might have fared better against in the WICB. Is LLoyd still working for WICB?

  • dsuperguy on July 24, 2009, 1:24 GMT

    The West Indian cricket team's approach to cricket is as SAGABOYS or PIRATES . As sagaboys, they think they could 'LIME" late, MISS practices, POST a once in a while NICE SCORE in cavalier fashion to ACHIEVE a once-in-a-while victory. Not a single player can be relied upon to pull off a much needed victory and fans often end up so disappointed . As pirates, they hold the WIBC and the fans at ransom so their paychecks can get fatter.Even the gold on their necks are fatter. WIPA and players need to ask themselves how many of them could qualify to play for Australia,South Africa, England,India,Pakistan,New Zealand and Sri Lanka. WIPA you are milking the WIBC treasury, be careful that you won't end up WEEPING over your ill gotten gains. Perhaps when the team is relegated to the likes of Holland ,Canada and Kenya etc their standard might be lifted and their attitude might be more patriotic. Finally, the WICB should employ a coach and trainer for their own professional development.

  • royramdeo on July 24, 2009, 0:09 GMT

    Doesn't anyone care about the fans anymore? Or is it all about the money?

  • wibbly on July 23, 2009, 22:20 GMT

    the wicb must go and julien hunte will go down in history as a disgrace, but so will ramnarine. this man is a vindictive, destructive ego maniac and anyone can see that he has done quite well financially over the last few years, in spite of the fact that his job has been running a beneficial, non-profit organisation. oh for the days when there were gentlemen involved in west indies cricket, now all we have are these cretins, the whole game and the entire region are going to rot because we constantly allow people of no substance, but who talk the talk to take charge...fans always used to say that we would never see another viv or sobers in our lifetimes...however, it looks as if we may not see a decent west indian team for another millenium

  • ahmooooo on July 23, 2009, 18:46 GMT

    i totally agree too with with both Clive Lloyd and Michael Holding. The board is not being able to handle players well and the players all too greedy. They have to be dumped. And yeah it should be pay for performance.

  • askanth on July 23, 2009, 17:11 GMT

    IF WIPA means Players association, doesn't it include the so-called second string players also? Aren't they players also? Does this not amount to discrimination? Or does it mean "Worst International Players Association" of West Indies? Now there is going to be another association called as WIPA-Second String. I think it would be good for WI Cricket, if they play and take all the issues outside the cricket domain, like courts. And pay tax like everyone else. It is nothing wrong to be greedy, like any other major sportsperson of the world, but performance?

  • toolg on July 23, 2009, 17:10 GMT

    the whole west indies cricket board needs to be fired and then strict rules need to be implemented for the players to follow.they have to perform too for there money.

  • Kingracko on July 23, 2009, 17:08 GMT

    This conversation cannot just be about the WICB and WIPA dragging West Indies cricket into the dust.It aso has to be about what we have to do to stop it.When are we going to articulate our position in policy papers or when will there be an evaluation of the whole structure in the bid to finding and solving the problem.I look forward to the day when the Michael Holdings and the Clive Lloyds will stop criticizing but will put themselves in positions to make positive changes in the way West Indies cricket is run. We have to stop this mediocrity and recognize that we have to use our brains and stop alking foolishness.Just listen to the drivel we spue from our much vaunted intellects in some cases.

  • DenisM on July 23, 2009, 16:27 GMT

    What these two gentlemen ( whom I admire very much ) have to realize is that once there is money to be had they ( the players ) want their share of it. What if any one of them gets a career ending injury? Who will take care of them? They have to look out for themselves. As far as I understand it the WIPA is not doing this boycott just for the money, there are other issues that are of equal importance. Holding and Lloyd have been there and has seen it first hand. I admit country first but if they do not have a contract in place who takes care of them when they get injured. Bravo had to pay for his rehab out of pocket. My suggestion, CARICOM should order a disolving of the WICB and get those who are taking up space ( as Holding mentioned ) to get another occupation. Things will change only when the WICB is buried. Denis

  • sugakane on July 23, 2009, 16:24 GMT

    I am not in total agreement with Lloyd and Holding. Why is it that the WICB has to owe the player for such an extended period of time? Everybody does work for money, how come the WI had to fill the spot in England when the Sri Lankan players refused to go to England and instead chose to play in the IPL for the big money? I think it is also unfair to the player to have to defend the trophy we took 9 years to retain in such harsh conditions. Since the days of the two great men the WICB were making decisions that were not in favor of the players, I have to admit however they had more love for the game. Lastly I think that Mr. Ramnarine should not use the players to settle whatever personal dispute he has with the WICB.

  • idontknowidontcare on July 23, 2009, 15:18 GMT

    I would not be too sad if West Indies stopped playing cricket.

    There is only one problem, however. If the tier system is adopted for Test cricket, who will Bangladesh play with? Zimbabwe is anyway out, and there cannot be a Tier with only Bangladesh, so West Indies must stay otherwise the Tier system will have a problem.

  • ABP235 on July 23, 2009, 14:35 GMT

    The main cause for this specific trouble for WI cricket, and test cricket around the world, is specifically the IPL (and not much the T20 international variety). The way ICC in general and each cricket board in specific (including WICB) bowed down to the BCCI to rake in windfalls has caused major downfall as regards the cricketing standards around the world. The cricketers who think they stand a great chance to win lucrative contracts or auctions at the IPL are showing their money negotiating skills than the cricketing skills. As an Indian, but an avid cricket follower and analyst of the cricketing and commercial interests surrounding the game, I am shocked to see that the several countries have kept quiet due to the generous flow of money from BCCI. While WI cricketers are asking for compensation, others like Oram, Flintoff et al are opting to stay away from test cricket to be fit for the IPL. Dont blame anything for this impasse, its the IPL that is showing unreasonable payscales.

  • LRJ123 on July 23, 2009, 13:52 GMT

    I agree that these players like everybody else needs to pay taxes, it is only right that they do. Having said that i think is unfair that Mr. Lloyd seeks to question the payment for the england tour. In this day and age, with sports being the way it is, it is unfair that they should not have been compensated for missing out on the IPL. this thng is not about country vs IPl: Mr Lloyd and Holding were victims of the era in which they played, if they played now it would they would demand and do teh same thing these players are doing. WICB should not have oplayed that England series, Sri Lanka the original team pulled out to allow their players to play in the IPL. They should be compensated, if this was football they would have to be compensated. Yes we can now talk about performance based pay but West Indian Cricket structure needs to be improved to produce the quality cricketers Australia, South Africa and England are producing ,we are giving these players basket to carry water.

  • Dreadlocks on July 23, 2009, 13:38 GMT

    What contracts are you talking about??? That is the whole issue of the strike the players have no contract.

  • Fla_Me on July 23, 2009, 13:36 GMT

    The nature of professional sports today has it that players are paid what they're paid... it's their livelyhood and unlike many of us they're not otherwise qualified - one career threatening injury and they're done. We must stop using the wages as a wip - Westindians must wakeup!!

  • warneford on July 23, 2009, 13:25 GMT

    The people of the Caribbean deserves folks like Holding,LLoyd and Tony Cosier some where close to the ears of those who are making such a debacle of an institution so dear to the hearts of all the cricket loving West Indians where ever they may reside.There are a lot of us who remember the days when our ambasadors of the game played their hearts out for the sole purpose of making an entire diverse region proud.Surely they must have been paid and without doubt not very well,but i do not ever recall tbat being an issue. The problem today is purely power and money.The one organisation needs the absolute power to control the money the other wants the money to be the absolute power house in the arena.I get a sense of feeling that the whole issue stems from some lurking distaste in the mouths of some on the WIPAfor former personal beefs with the board and the board is resisting.Who ever wins it will be nothing more than a phiric victory.The loosers.....the peoples of the Caribbean.

  • Pratik_vodka on July 23, 2009, 13:11 GMT

    It is sad when you hear stories like these.Just saddens me from Inside. I am a lover a cricket and a great supporter of the indian team. Though in all honesty i have nothing to with this particular series, but i tried watchin it.i felt sad for both WI and bangladesh cricket. Even if Bangladesh won they can never enjoy it in its real sense just another number in the record books thats all the series was. WICB and WIPA are just in it for personal gains and no one really cares about the future of the game in WI anyway except may be the poor WI cricket fans/supporters but then again who really cares about them? i can always except there being a difference of Opinion amongst the boards and the players is fine but to go on strike and bring shame to your country is not acceptable. There are many who would pay to play for thier countries and the priviledged few who do geta chance just make nothing of it but bring disgrace to the game. Just hope Wi is not on ZImbabwe route of things.

  • Rampersad on July 23, 2009, 13:00 GMT

    While I truly admire Lloyd and Holding for their past cricketing prowess, I have to disagree with some of their comments. Holding questions WIPA's committment to the bettwrment of WI cricket by implying that they are trying to settle old scores - why not come out and say who he think is doing this? As for Lloyd's comments about paying players for leaving the IPL early to play for WI - does he not know that the players had no contract with the Board at that time - hence they went and signed contracts to play for teams in the IPL. As far as I am aware, when one is asked to break an existing contract - it is only natural/legal for that person to be compensated for breaking same. So, I don't think Lloyd has any legs to stand on in this particular argument. Having had my five cents worth - I still have complete admiration for both of them - they just have to realize that the real culprits in this matter is the WICB 100%.

  • samaroo on July 23, 2009, 12:29 GMT

    Mikey and Clive are sharp shooters "its about time we get them on the inside of WI Cricket"

    Holding the caribbean at ransom:

    Liat UWI WICB WIPA

  • amigobyc on July 23, 2009, 11:40 GMT

    I said virtually the same thing afew days ago. The Board is intellectually empty and WIPA is greedy. I would rather we lose with guys who want to play than to win with a bunch of jokers who are playing mainly for money. Holding's point re no tax being paid by the players just gets me more angry. To the players - you have lost any little support or sympathy I may have had for you. Go dig ditches. Amigobyc. Barbados.

  • moronosaurus on July 23, 2009, 11:34 GMT

    So they're giving the WICB 80 percent of the blame and WIPA 20 percent?

  • mdbajan on July 23, 2009, 11:04 GMT

    I am in agreement with both Clive Lloyd and Michael Holding. Both the WICB and the WIPA want to have power, but neither one knows how to use it, and the only victim is West Indies cricket. If the WIPA really represented the cricketers, the latest tests between West Indies and Bangladesh would naver have occerred. My reasoning; the West Indies team was basically on strike, but WIPA in all its glory allowed a second rate team to cross their picket lines and play. The result, an embarrassed West Indies. If the key players are on strike then no cricket. Who does the WIPA really represent, and what is the function of the WIPA if the WICB can just select any team to fill in?

    Cricketers are paid way too much. Go to pay for performance. There should be a basic salary, and then go from there. West Indies players should be West Indies first then IPL. I would hate to see the contract that these players have. Seems like the players have better lawyers than the WICB for contracts.

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  • mdbajan on July 23, 2009, 11:04 GMT

    I am in agreement with both Clive Lloyd and Michael Holding. Both the WICB and the WIPA want to have power, but neither one knows how to use it, and the only victim is West Indies cricket. If the WIPA really represented the cricketers, the latest tests between West Indies and Bangladesh would naver have occerred. My reasoning; the West Indies team was basically on strike, but WIPA in all its glory allowed a second rate team to cross their picket lines and play. The result, an embarrassed West Indies. If the key players are on strike then no cricket. Who does the WIPA really represent, and what is the function of the WIPA if the WICB can just select any team to fill in?

    Cricketers are paid way too much. Go to pay for performance. There should be a basic salary, and then go from there. West Indies players should be West Indies first then IPL. I would hate to see the contract that these players have. Seems like the players have better lawyers than the WICB for contracts.

  • moronosaurus on July 23, 2009, 11:34 GMT

    So they're giving the WICB 80 percent of the blame and WIPA 20 percent?

  • amigobyc on July 23, 2009, 11:40 GMT

    I said virtually the same thing afew days ago. The Board is intellectually empty and WIPA is greedy. I would rather we lose with guys who want to play than to win with a bunch of jokers who are playing mainly for money. Holding's point re no tax being paid by the players just gets me more angry. To the players - you have lost any little support or sympathy I may have had for you. Go dig ditches. Amigobyc. Barbados.

  • samaroo on July 23, 2009, 12:29 GMT

    Mikey and Clive are sharp shooters "its about time we get them on the inside of WI Cricket"

    Holding the caribbean at ransom:

    Liat UWI WICB WIPA

  • Rampersad on July 23, 2009, 13:00 GMT

    While I truly admire Lloyd and Holding for their past cricketing prowess, I have to disagree with some of their comments. Holding questions WIPA's committment to the bettwrment of WI cricket by implying that they are trying to settle old scores - why not come out and say who he think is doing this? As for Lloyd's comments about paying players for leaving the IPL early to play for WI - does he not know that the players had no contract with the Board at that time - hence they went and signed contracts to play for teams in the IPL. As far as I am aware, when one is asked to break an existing contract - it is only natural/legal for that person to be compensated for breaking same. So, I don't think Lloyd has any legs to stand on in this particular argument. Having had my five cents worth - I still have complete admiration for both of them - they just have to realize that the real culprits in this matter is the WICB 100%.

  • Pratik_vodka on July 23, 2009, 13:11 GMT

    It is sad when you hear stories like these.Just saddens me from Inside. I am a lover a cricket and a great supporter of the indian team. Though in all honesty i have nothing to with this particular series, but i tried watchin it.i felt sad for both WI and bangladesh cricket. Even if Bangladesh won they can never enjoy it in its real sense just another number in the record books thats all the series was. WICB and WIPA are just in it for personal gains and no one really cares about the future of the game in WI anyway except may be the poor WI cricket fans/supporters but then again who really cares about them? i can always except there being a difference of Opinion amongst the boards and the players is fine but to go on strike and bring shame to your country is not acceptable. There are many who would pay to play for thier countries and the priviledged few who do geta chance just make nothing of it but bring disgrace to the game. Just hope Wi is not on ZImbabwe route of things.

  • warneford on July 23, 2009, 13:25 GMT

    The people of the Caribbean deserves folks like Holding,LLoyd and Tony Cosier some where close to the ears of those who are making such a debacle of an institution so dear to the hearts of all the cricket loving West Indians where ever they may reside.There are a lot of us who remember the days when our ambasadors of the game played their hearts out for the sole purpose of making an entire diverse region proud.Surely they must have been paid and without doubt not very well,but i do not ever recall tbat being an issue. The problem today is purely power and money.The one organisation needs the absolute power to control the money the other wants the money to be the absolute power house in the arena.I get a sense of feeling that the whole issue stems from some lurking distaste in the mouths of some on the WIPAfor former personal beefs with the board and the board is resisting.Who ever wins it will be nothing more than a phiric victory.The loosers.....the peoples of the Caribbean.

  • Fla_Me on July 23, 2009, 13:36 GMT

    The nature of professional sports today has it that players are paid what they're paid... it's their livelyhood and unlike many of us they're not otherwise qualified - one career threatening injury and they're done. We must stop using the wages as a wip - Westindians must wakeup!!

  • Dreadlocks on July 23, 2009, 13:38 GMT

    What contracts are you talking about??? That is the whole issue of the strike the players have no contract.

  • LRJ123 on July 23, 2009, 13:52 GMT

    I agree that these players like everybody else needs to pay taxes, it is only right that they do. Having said that i think is unfair that Mr. Lloyd seeks to question the payment for the england tour. In this day and age, with sports being the way it is, it is unfair that they should not have been compensated for missing out on the IPL. this thng is not about country vs IPl: Mr Lloyd and Holding were victims of the era in which they played, if they played now it would they would demand and do teh same thing these players are doing. WICB should not have oplayed that England series, Sri Lanka the original team pulled out to allow their players to play in the IPL. They should be compensated, if this was football they would have to be compensated. Yes we can now talk about performance based pay but West Indian Cricket structure needs to be improved to produce the quality cricketers Australia, South Africa and England are producing ,we are giving these players basket to carry water.