Politics June 12, 2007

To sue or not to sue, an unworthy question

Now that the Jamaican police have reversed their verdict on Bob Woolmer's death his family can complete the mourning process
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Speculation about the possible cause of a high-profile death never ends and it my just be the trigger for a legal dispute--take the example of Princess Diana whose family endured a further television documentary this week. Unreasonable media intrusion or reasonable public interest? It is a debate that forces polarisation.

Now that the Jamaican police have reversed their verdict on Bob Woolmer's death his family can complete the mourning process. And if anybody should sue for damages it should be them, although you suspect they will have too much dignity to begin down that road.

This blog doesn't have a great record of agreeing with Nasim Ashraf and disagreeing with Imran Khan but on this occasion I say Chairman Ashraf has made the right call. While a gut reaction does urge some kind of retribution for the way Pakistan's players were publicly vilified--and the British media, even some 'thoughtful' broadsheet writers, were some of the worst--the sensible response is to let the matter rest. If nothing else then out of respect for Bob's family.

Pakistan cricket needs to move on and those writers who spent a merry few weeks publicly maligning Pakistan cricketers, their character, and their country owe Pakistan cricket an apology. But I guess that is as likely as Cricinfo being bought by Disney--oops, miracles do happen.

Kamran Abbasi is an editor, writer and broadcaster. He tweets here

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 21, 2007, 10:54 GMT

    Whatmore do you want? I have a feeling that a stage has been set to appoint Dav Whatmore especially after reading his post interview comments on cricinfo and the way he was treated and interviewed last by the PCB officials and now he is going to meet the King of the PCB in Islamabad ..... its a sign of the inevitable and a predictable result unfolding so, whatelse or whatmore do you expect from a pied piper?

  • Irfan on June 21, 2007, 9:20 GMT

    Kamran, you have a point, but a point that seldom counts out here. It is another case of how we were humiliated throughout the world and now that we have been proved to be clean, its high time that we get it out as rigorously as the initial propaganda was propagated.

    But i know its Pakistan and we have the great PCB another symbol of ADHCOISM in Pakistan!!

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 20, 2007, 15:08 GMT

    To sue OR not to sue is an issue related to pride & prejudice, izzat & honour. BUT, the issue of selecting or not selecting a foreign coach for the national team by breaking and bending the rules is another matter. Its a shame that the PCB can do this very openly and so boldly assuming that the people of Pakistan are dumb, naive, ignorant and simpleton.

    The point that Javed Miandad is raising now upon Geoff Lawson's interview that, Lawson did not apply for the post and was approached by the PCB, which is not only true but, it is a straight forward violation of the PCB's own policies, rules and the framework which it has announced recently that, "only those candidates will be considered for an interview who have applied for the post." Miandad and Intikhab Alam did not apply under protest hence they were ruled out and not called for an interview. Whereas, the PCB has another set of rule for a foreign coach. Wow, this so bureaucratic and diplomatic, in other words its called her ami pun or so over pun but, in any case you cannot call it a pun or a joke, because this is a serious matter and serious people are involved innit and that too in a very serious manner.

    The other thing that I am unable to understand is the role of the ad-hoc committee. How long will this country be running on the basis of ad hoc·ism? There is a Chinese expression that: "if you have pebbles in your shoes, you cannot look at the stars" i.e., at a time when you are supposed to be looking inwards you are looking outwards! Until and unless they sort out their internal petty problems how can they solve the other problems? Mr. Nasim Ashraf thinks that there is too much politics internally, so to neutralize it, he needs a foreign coach. Thats his imagination and "fishful' thinking that all the problems would be solved instantly, its not that simple, there is no magic wand and there is no fairy God mother accompanying the foreign coach. The foreign coach has other issues to tackle with and his biggest problem would be "communication." They are assuming that by appointing a coach from the short list of three FC's, IF any one of them is selected, he can not only manage well but, will transform the team into a winning combo. This is an assumption based on Dav Whatmore's previous jobs in handling Sri Lanka and Bangladesh teams. I think there is a big difference between those players and that of Pakistan team in understanding English with a heavy Australian accent. Probably he will have to take Urdu and Punjabi lessons and that would be a better option.

    The next problem the foreign coach would be facing is about his lack of awareness of the players' performance especially in selecting the new, young, upcoming and budding players at the domestic level. How is he going to evaluate them and select them or induct them in to the national side? Will he be having so much time at his disposal OR the PCB or any other sub-committee or a new ad hoc committee be spoon feeding the coach or backseat mothering him to choose a player from the new and raw talent or will they simply be issuing orders? I think there will always be a tug of war, push and pull tactics and petty politics based on jingoism and regionalism if the coach is not independent also, if the PCB is not run independently. When are they going to make a constitution which is being promised for the last so many years?

  • Muhammad Asif on June 20, 2007, 14:57 GMT

    Big scores are responsible for one-sided contests & lack of interest even in one day cricket. Its right time to remove the field restrictions. Cricket is about bat, ball & wicket(pitch). Nowadays the balance has tilted in favour of batsmen. Limited overs cricket started to have a result on the same day. In Test cricket batsmen used to spend as much time as possible on the crease because the psyche was that the more time you spend on crease the more runs you will score. So in the begining we saw two restrictions for bowlers in favour of batsmen: one, Restriction of overs per bowler; two, field restriction for a one-third of total overs. Now the limited overs cricket is matured so one should atleast reomove the field restriction, since the batsmen have adapted themselves to limited overs cricket very well. One should have good balance between bat & ball to have a fair contest & good cricket.

  • Moon on June 20, 2007, 13:50 GMT

    you take 4's and 6's out of the game then no one will come to watch Gavaskars and Miandads playing for singles

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 20, 2007, 9:23 GMT

    Pra Muhammad Asaf - what a shot ! What a beauty. "I am agree you" this 4x6 is like, Penulty corners hacking the beauty. And you are right, there are too many corners in hockey thats why they say, plenty corners 'nowadys'. You are absolutely right in saying; cricket is like a sheep on Hockey's path and one day they too will climb up the wall and, like Hockey's fall, cricket will come tumbling after!

    Save this blog from dying ......... oops I mean save the beauty ....

  • Muhammad Asif on June 19, 2007, 15:46 GMT

    Cricket is following the same path as Hockey's Fall. Field Goals & Dribbling was Hockey's beauty. But the abundance of Penulty corners hacked its beauty, Nowadys players moto is to get a plenty corner to score a Goal. The same thing is happening with cricket. The abundance of 4's & 6's are hacking the beauty of cricket. Nowadys bowlers moto is not get hit a 4/6. So we are missing some good cricket. Save the cricket from dying.......

  • Awas on June 18, 2007, 21:09 GMT

    Quite interesting observations in his posting by Gulab Khan.

    I mentioned in my earlier posting that litigation by PCB would achieve nothing as it would end up losing and filling lawyers’ boots. I mentioned suspicion or “damage to honour” alone is no grounds for a court case. The police never said in clear cut terms “we suspect Pakistan Team”, only said “we can rule no one out”. Isn’t that normal in a suspected murder case botched however it may be?

    Some bloggers, even the learned regulars, are harping about “let’s sue them”. Someone wrongly mentioned earlier “……but the only ones whose finger prints and DNA samples were taken were from the [Pakistan] team….” Not so. Irish Team was DNA tested and so were people staying in the hotel floor where Woolmer was; including Brian Lara and perhaps many others. Unfortunately, biased journalists only concentrated on reporting what they thought was newsworthy. Maligning Pakistan team was more fun for them. The fact is all people closely associated with “suspected murder” are naturally suspected. As I previously mentioned spouses are prime suspects in a homicide unless ruled out. If I were Inspector Clouseau, I might suspect, say for example, Kamran Abbasi has committed a heinous crime ;-). Neither can I charge Mr Abbasi on that basis alone nor can he sue me for suspecting. Should I wrongly charge him though and the court decides he is innocent then there might be a case for him on the basis of wrongfulness and damage to his reputation, stress etc. The reason Imran took Botham and Lamb to court was when the duo did not succeed in a defamation lawsuit and Imran in turn sued them for wrongful accusation, damages etc. A completely different situation. Further, if a defamation case such as this failed then what are the chances of PCB succeeding in fighting a court case for “wrongful suspicion or damage to honour”?

    Where there could be a case then it perhaps is against certain journalists for their salacious reporting and hideous innuendos against the Pak team. I read that Dr “Error” (aka Dr Death) is still adamant that he was right. Because of his sheer bloody minded arrogance, he wouldn’t accept that he screwed it up. That is where PCB should infact take a stance and if necessary sue him. After all three other pathologists from three different countries have said it was a natural death.

    I wonder why Salman Butt has been named a vice captain? Isn’t it likely that in the current crop of players he is perhaps most competent to communicate in English with the imminent appointment of a foreign coach? Definitely not because he is an automatic choice for an opener.

  • Muhammad Asif on June 18, 2007, 13:02 GMT

    Another step inright direction:

    Organisers pledge 'spectator-friendly' 2011 World Cup

    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/298463.html

  • EAMIRAN on June 18, 2007, 13:00 GMT

    Irfan:

    I refer to Shields and that obstinate pathologist as Cluseau and Cato; however even that may be too flattering because Cluseau always got his man in the end!

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 21, 2007, 10:54 GMT

    Whatmore do you want? I have a feeling that a stage has been set to appoint Dav Whatmore especially after reading his post interview comments on cricinfo and the way he was treated and interviewed last by the PCB officials and now he is going to meet the King of the PCB in Islamabad ..... its a sign of the inevitable and a predictable result unfolding so, whatelse or whatmore do you expect from a pied piper?

  • Irfan on June 21, 2007, 9:20 GMT

    Kamran, you have a point, but a point that seldom counts out here. It is another case of how we were humiliated throughout the world and now that we have been proved to be clean, its high time that we get it out as rigorously as the initial propaganda was propagated.

    But i know its Pakistan and we have the great PCB another symbol of ADHCOISM in Pakistan!!

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 20, 2007, 15:08 GMT

    To sue OR not to sue is an issue related to pride & prejudice, izzat & honour. BUT, the issue of selecting or not selecting a foreign coach for the national team by breaking and bending the rules is another matter. Its a shame that the PCB can do this very openly and so boldly assuming that the people of Pakistan are dumb, naive, ignorant and simpleton.

    The point that Javed Miandad is raising now upon Geoff Lawson's interview that, Lawson did not apply for the post and was approached by the PCB, which is not only true but, it is a straight forward violation of the PCB's own policies, rules and the framework which it has announced recently that, "only those candidates will be considered for an interview who have applied for the post." Miandad and Intikhab Alam did not apply under protest hence they were ruled out and not called for an interview. Whereas, the PCB has another set of rule for a foreign coach. Wow, this so bureaucratic and diplomatic, in other words its called her ami pun or so over pun but, in any case you cannot call it a pun or a joke, because this is a serious matter and serious people are involved innit and that too in a very serious manner.

    The other thing that I am unable to understand is the role of the ad-hoc committee. How long will this country be running on the basis of ad hoc·ism? There is a Chinese expression that: "if you have pebbles in your shoes, you cannot look at the stars" i.e., at a time when you are supposed to be looking inwards you are looking outwards! Until and unless they sort out their internal petty problems how can they solve the other problems? Mr. Nasim Ashraf thinks that there is too much politics internally, so to neutralize it, he needs a foreign coach. Thats his imagination and "fishful' thinking that all the problems would be solved instantly, its not that simple, there is no magic wand and there is no fairy God mother accompanying the foreign coach. The foreign coach has other issues to tackle with and his biggest problem would be "communication." They are assuming that by appointing a coach from the short list of three FC's, IF any one of them is selected, he can not only manage well but, will transform the team into a winning combo. This is an assumption based on Dav Whatmore's previous jobs in handling Sri Lanka and Bangladesh teams. I think there is a big difference between those players and that of Pakistan team in understanding English with a heavy Australian accent. Probably he will have to take Urdu and Punjabi lessons and that would be a better option.

    The next problem the foreign coach would be facing is about his lack of awareness of the players' performance especially in selecting the new, young, upcoming and budding players at the domestic level. How is he going to evaluate them and select them or induct them in to the national side? Will he be having so much time at his disposal OR the PCB or any other sub-committee or a new ad hoc committee be spoon feeding the coach or backseat mothering him to choose a player from the new and raw talent or will they simply be issuing orders? I think there will always be a tug of war, push and pull tactics and petty politics based on jingoism and regionalism if the coach is not independent also, if the PCB is not run independently. When are they going to make a constitution which is being promised for the last so many years?

  • Muhammad Asif on June 20, 2007, 14:57 GMT

    Big scores are responsible for one-sided contests & lack of interest even in one day cricket. Its right time to remove the field restrictions. Cricket is about bat, ball & wicket(pitch). Nowadays the balance has tilted in favour of batsmen. Limited overs cricket started to have a result on the same day. In Test cricket batsmen used to spend as much time as possible on the crease because the psyche was that the more time you spend on crease the more runs you will score. So in the begining we saw two restrictions for bowlers in favour of batsmen: one, Restriction of overs per bowler; two, field restriction for a one-third of total overs. Now the limited overs cricket is matured so one should atleast reomove the field restriction, since the batsmen have adapted themselves to limited overs cricket very well. One should have good balance between bat & ball to have a fair contest & good cricket.

  • Moon on June 20, 2007, 13:50 GMT

    you take 4's and 6's out of the game then no one will come to watch Gavaskars and Miandads playing for singles

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 20, 2007, 9:23 GMT

    Pra Muhammad Asaf - what a shot ! What a beauty. "I am agree you" this 4x6 is like, Penulty corners hacking the beauty. And you are right, there are too many corners in hockey thats why they say, plenty corners 'nowadys'. You are absolutely right in saying; cricket is like a sheep on Hockey's path and one day they too will climb up the wall and, like Hockey's fall, cricket will come tumbling after!

    Save this blog from dying ......... oops I mean save the beauty ....

  • Muhammad Asif on June 19, 2007, 15:46 GMT

    Cricket is following the same path as Hockey's Fall. Field Goals & Dribbling was Hockey's beauty. But the abundance of Penulty corners hacked its beauty, Nowadys players moto is to get a plenty corner to score a Goal. The same thing is happening with cricket. The abundance of 4's & 6's are hacking the beauty of cricket. Nowadys bowlers moto is not get hit a 4/6. So we are missing some good cricket. Save the cricket from dying.......

  • Awas on June 18, 2007, 21:09 GMT

    Quite interesting observations in his posting by Gulab Khan.

    I mentioned in my earlier posting that litigation by PCB would achieve nothing as it would end up losing and filling lawyers’ boots. I mentioned suspicion or “damage to honour” alone is no grounds for a court case. The police never said in clear cut terms “we suspect Pakistan Team”, only said “we can rule no one out”. Isn’t that normal in a suspected murder case botched however it may be?

    Some bloggers, even the learned regulars, are harping about “let’s sue them”. Someone wrongly mentioned earlier “……but the only ones whose finger prints and DNA samples were taken were from the [Pakistan] team….” Not so. Irish Team was DNA tested and so were people staying in the hotel floor where Woolmer was; including Brian Lara and perhaps many others. Unfortunately, biased journalists only concentrated on reporting what they thought was newsworthy. Maligning Pakistan team was more fun for them. The fact is all people closely associated with “suspected murder” are naturally suspected. As I previously mentioned spouses are prime suspects in a homicide unless ruled out. If I were Inspector Clouseau, I might suspect, say for example, Kamran Abbasi has committed a heinous crime ;-). Neither can I charge Mr Abbasi on that basis alone nor can he sue me for suspecting. Should I wrongly charge him though and the court decides he is innocent then there might be a case for him on the basis of wrongfulness and damage to his reputation, stress etc. The reason Imran took Botham and Lamb to court was when the duo did not succeed in a defamation lawsuit and Imran in turn sued them for wrongful accusation, damages etc. A completely different situation. Further, if a defamation case such as this failed then what are the chances of PCB succeeding in fighting a court case for “wrongful suspicion or damage to honour”?

    Where there could be a case then it perhaps is against certain journalists for their salacious reporting and hideous innuendos against the Pak team. I read that Dr “Error” (aka Dr Death) is still adamant that he was right. Because of his sheer bloody minded arrogance, he wouldn’t accept that he screwed it up. That is where PCB should infact take a stance and if necessary sue him. After all three other pathologists from three different countries have said it was a natural death.

    I wonder why Salman Butt has been named a vice captain? Isn’t it likely that in the current crop of players he is perhaps most competent to communicate in English with the imminent appointment of a foreign coach? Definitely not because he is an automatic choice for an opener.

  • Muhammad Asif on June 18, 2007, 13:02 GMT

    Another step inright direction:

    Organisers pledge 'spectator-friendly' 2011 World Cup

    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/298463.html

  • EAMIRAN on June 18, 2007, 13:00 GMT

    Irfan:

    I refer to Shields and that obstinate pathologist as Cluseau and Cato; however even that may be too flattering because Cluseau always got his man in the end!

  • O'Neill on June 17, 2007, 23:54 GMT

    I still wonder whether the response of Jemaican police would have been different if the team involved was not Pakistan.

  • Gulab Khan on June 17, 2007, 22:22 GMT

    we should move on and ignore this.

    If we sue because we are correct this time then what will be happened when we will wrong. And mostly we are wrong?

    We do ball tempering, match fixing, races comments and sex scandals.

    I think deserving players like Asim Kamal, Yasir Hamid, Zulqurnain Haider and other should sue Inzamam & PCB, who kept them out from the team for no reason?

    We should sue Pakistan cricket team management or captain because they lost against Ireland (weakest team in World Cup). Still is hard to believe. Public was really hurt.

    We should sue sue Shoaib Akhtar for ........reasons etc. Bottom line sue when you are correct? First we need to check our self, how pious are we?

    This sue style created by Imran Khan, when he was playing cricket. He never realized his mistakes, we lost world cup 87 because of his poor captain ship. He gave chances to fail Mansoor Akhtar just becusue he was his friend. Some one should sue Imran Khan for it.

    Inzi wanted to divert public attention from his and his team performance in the last world cup so he is giving cheap statement. If he has little shame he should keep his mounth shut and show sorry for his and his team performance in the world cup and before the world cup (SA tour). But he wanted to play more test cricket not for Pakistan just to break record of Great Javed Miandad, who just played for his country not for the records. Karan Akmal dropped 14 catches against SA and he was the part of world cup squad, Inzi never gave chance to second wicket keeper Zulqurnain. I think Zulqurnain should sue Inzi.

    Gulab Khan Peshawer

  • khansahab(A.A.Khan) on June 17, 2007, 18:59 GMT

    Still no apology from the Jamaican authorities, it is almost like they have done a favour to Pakistanis by stating that there was insufficient evidence that would point towards Woolmer’s murder.

    This reminds me of Oval Test fiasco where it was not stated that, “Pakistani players are innocent” but it was stated by British media that, ““there is insufficient evidence” to support any possibility of ball tampering”. Whereas the two statements are not broadly distinct, they do evoke distinct implications. It was almost as if the British media was indicating that Pakistani players are culpable but unfortunately no proof can be had. I remember a photo of Mohammad Asif holding the ball in his hand, on a popular British tabloid, with the headline, “What is he doing!?” I didn’t know holding a ball in your hand and looking down at it means that one is tampering with it. That is the view which will be adopted however by the common British folk who are all but oblivious of cricket.

    Inzamam has stated that Miandad is the “best choice” for the position of coach. If there was a choice between Miandad and Intikhab Alam, I would choose Alam because Miandad has had a few unsuccessful stints as coach. Both of them have publicly stated they do not want the job. I don’t know why Geoff Lawson is being considered, being a fast bowler. We have plenty of support for the fast bowlers in the form of Waqar, Aaqib, Imran Khan and Wasim. We really need someone to train our openers and improve our fielding standards. This is not to say that a former fast bowler cannot be a good fielding or batting coach, but we are talking about a proper coaching job for an international team, so someone who can ameliorate our team’s main weaknesses (opening and fielding) must be considered.

    I do not support the exclusion of Mohammad Hafeez from the Scotland squad as he can be a good all rounder if used as a middle/lower order batsman. I want to know though why Razzaq, Sami and Imran Nazir are still in the squad!?

  • Ali Asim - Saginaw, Michigan USA on June 17, 2007, 17:30 GMT

    We've been undergoing multiculturalism for decades, if in slow motion, what the historians would describe as "the collapse of the old older, the sudden realization that the universe of a given community has lost its center". What we've witnessed in this debacle of "Woolmer Murder Theory" is shrewd acts of "verbal terrorism" by certain groups of thoughts. It is not by any means anything new, infact, it has been in effect since the days of crusades and witch-hunting age. We are only able to notice it so clearly now because of the rapid and cheaply available media of this age. This also brings attention to the power of the almighty media, the real "verbal terrorist" of this era. In this(woolmer) fiasco, we observed that how decieving and manipulating the media can be, and could easily realise how forcefully and efficiently the "super nations" of today's world are using this "weapon of mass distruction" against the voiceless world of East, or should I call them with their pet name, "Islamist Terrorists". How easily everyone bought the horseshit Shields was selling and then printed it all over the world with spices and their own speculation and sensational theories. And how easily everyone, including the mighty media, forgot about the issue after it was admitted by the culprits that the whole circus was nothing but a hoax and moronic attempt to blame someone non-white and preferably a Muslim. It was a deliberate attempt, they wanted and abruptly assumed that Woolmer was murdered and were hell bent passionate about holding someone, from east and preferably a Muslim, responsible for it. How blindly the western and indian media not only followed their lead, but also added their own version of racism and anti-Muslim flavor to it. I waited for a few days to write this comment, after their press conference, because I wanted to believe that there should be someone from their ranks who would rise up and admit the guilt and tell us that how shambolic the whole scenario was, but to my utter disappointment, no one, and I repeat no one from either the western world or india gave a single word out to condemn it. This shows that how Isolated we've(Muslims) become on this planet. And as for the western world and our neibours, SHAME ON YOU!

  • Mohammed Munir - Sharjah, UAE. on June 17, 2007, 7:38 GMT

    PCB is not a sole-proprietorship entity of some expatriate Pakistani, however, it is running as one. PCB is a sports governing organization of an independent country, and at times you have to do things just to keep your pride and self-esteem intact as a nation, rather to please everybody around you.

    In spite of spending millions on legal experts, no action was taken against Mr. Hair, when the time was right. Similarly, ICC was also not made to feel our stand and were let-off cheaply on the whole test fiasco. At the same time, England Cricket Board sued PCB for the damages arising out of the forfeited test, and, in response, PCB agreed to play a match to compensate ECB. What a bold decision.

    This was all done under the resign of Nasim Ashraf, and only to please ‘others’ at the stake of bring discredit and disgrace to Pakistan.

    Now, Dr. Nasim Ashraf says “it is time to move on ”, well yes, there sure, is time for you to MOVE ON

  • saleem khan on June 16, 2007, 7:34 GMT

    Dear mrAbbasi Regards ,Our detectives deserve appluse these experienced o0fficers must be commended for making RIGHT judgement within no time & any tehnical help we lost world cup but not the investigational contest .We may help Jamacian Police by sending these officers there on deputation,weldone cops you made me &my countrymen proud. We love you for the task made so coplex &difficult by their pathologist&police yet solved promptly you guys.May AALAH always help you in performing your duties HONESTLY. Weldone &Keep it up.

  • Irfan on June 15, 2007, 21:33 GMT

    EAMIRAN,

    Who are you refering to as Closeau and the sidekick? Interesting to know?

  • khansahab(A.A.Khan) on June 15, 2007, 15:30 GMT

    If the Indian pathologist has had a history of ineptness, why was he assigned this task by the Jamaican authorities in the first place? This was such a high profile case; was he the most qualified man to be given this task?

    The Jamaican authorities are the real culprits whether that is their police, their government or their doctor. They are the culprits firstly because of lack of security at the Pegasus hotel, secondly because they delegated this task to the Indian pathologist who was not the best man to conduct the investigation and thirdly because they made many conflicting reports, took too long, and generally dealt with such a high profile case very negligently and indifferently. I know Jamaica is not as developed as USA or UK but there are some standards of professional competence that have to be adhered to by all authorities and media, anywhere in the world.

    I mentioned earlier that in my opinion the reason PCB is not treating this issue as urgent is because of the doping scandal where the ICC made some noise but individual cricket boards and rest of the world did not raise much of an outcry.

    I have been very hurt that the media has not written about how difficult this ordeal would have been for Pakistani players and their families and how the Jamaican authorities and media need to apologise to them. What the PCB should do now is to release a statement which should go something like: “Having received no apology or sympathy from the Jamaican authorities, we have decided to sue them in order to claim damages for the stress and anguish caused to our players during the biggest cricket tournament in the world when they were being labelled as murder suspects and for the global tarnishing of the our players’ and country’s image owing to Jamaican authorities’ incompetence and negligence.”

  • Rauf on June 15, 2007, 14:24 GMT

    To Mike Holmans: Why is it that in ordinary life you will be fired for screwing up on your job while the same rule does not apply to police and politicians?

    To Deano el Beano: "Take the high road for once"

    Sure why not... ONLY when the same rule "innocent until proven guilty" applies to everyone. Currently this rule applies to a "select few" while the rest of the world is always "guilty until proven innocent". Level the playing field and you will have a point.

    To WASIM SAQIB: Good NY times article. Dr. Ere Sheshaiah should be investigated and must be fired from his job if found negligent. Why? because either he is biased against Pakistan or he don't know what he is doing.

  • WASIM SAQIB on June 15, 2007, 8:42 GMT

    The pathologist Dr. Ere Sheshaiah is still insisting that it was a murder,when several other doctors have ruled otherwise, even if his intentions were not malafied,I think his lack of professional knowledge and stubborness has caused a huge controversy and he is still not giving up, Owais has already quoted the article published in New york times,which states his previous brushes with controversy.For those of you who have not read the article here's the link.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/13/world/americas/13cricket.html

    I think a medical commission should review his practice and if found negligent his medical licence should be revoked.

  • trump on June 15, 2007, 8:39 GMT

    Y can't accept honest comments???

  • WASIM SAQIB on June 15, 2007, 7:35 GMT

    Captain Swing:

    Can you quote one single example where England was wrongfully accused only then you can relate with our situation,Mike artherton was guilty whereas Pakistan team has been wrongfully accused in Oval and wrongfully suspected and tried by the media in Bob woolmer's murder controversy.I hope you can understand the difference between the two situations.

  • EAMIRAN on June 14, 2007, 23:01 GMT

    If I was a Pakistani cricketer, I would sue the PCB for not representing them properly, and in timely fashion, during the crisis.

    As for Inspector Closeau and his pathologist Cato - they got their 5 minutes of fame. Criminals beware!

  • Dawar, LA USA on June 14, 2007, 22:26 GMT

    This is a part of cricket business. Just ignore and move on.

    Dawar LA USA

  • Omer Admani on June 14, 2007, 22:10 GMT

    Moving on is absolutely ridiculous. The whole of British Media had it on the first pages of their news when Woolmer died; not any opportunity was missed to defame Pakistan (whatever the motivation, monetary or otherwise). PCB should take legal action....and if it doesn't, then the next time something like the Hair incident, or something else happens, they have only themselves to blame. Nasim Ashraf should leave the cricket board, please. He is acting oversmart. That has been his problem all along: A person educated from America, in his mind, should think differently.

  • N.R.Khan on June 14, 2007, 21:24 GMT

    Yes,it is easy to say let this one go! What I am surprised is not the amatuerism and unprofessionalism displayed by the Jamaican Police but the hypocricy dispalyed by the press in the UK. The so called assumption that you are innocent until proven guilty went down the drain or perhaps once again they displayed racism. It seems to be in their blood. Will they show any professionalism by apologizing? But then how many people really consider them to be professionals? Hypocricy and double standard seems to be the norm.

  • A Khan on June 14, 2007, 19:54 GMT

    The decision to sue always depends upon the chances to win. Lets say if PCB sue Jamaican police, what are the chances that they will really win? Legal experts please

  • Usama Sarwar on June 14, 2007, 19:07 GMT

    I dont think there's any need to sue. Although I'm 100% sure that if this whole episode had occured in Pakistan, the opposing team would have sued each and everyone involved, I believe there's no real need to sue. If something isn't right, then you shouldn't do it no matter what. I think everyone who thinks rationally knew that this was a natural death, not some great conspiracy. Bob Woolmer has never given any indication that he's someone who would get involved in the shady 'underworld' of match fixing in any way. The reason for this whole fiasco was the incompetence of the Jamaican police, and Mr. Shields's desire to make a name for himself. The way the police were going about their jobs could be seen from the fact that they seemed to be 'playing to the gallery'. They seemed to be following what the media were speculating, and producing 'statements' which the media wanted to present to the people. The media took full toll of this, and all the major papers in India, Australia and England tried to outdo each other in ways to produce 'masala' stories and lambasting the Pakistani team. But it is over now. It was particulary sad to see that many people genuinely fell into the media trap, and started considering it an accepted fact that Woolmer was killed. Oh well. I guess cricket isnt as exciting as we thought it was after all!

  • Nabeel on June 14, 2007, 18:44 GMT

    I think Imran Khan's suggestion about sueing is correct because he recognises that there will be no apology forthcoming from any quarter. A lawsuit might just redress some of the humiliation suffered by the players at the hands of the Jamaican authorities who are responsible for the whole charade in the first instance. I think Mark Shields should be put on the dock so that he knows what it is to squirm when the world's eyes are trained on you. I think a lawsuit will also announce to the world that Pakistan does not take blows to reputation lightly and without a fight.

    Finally, for those who don't know; ESPN is owned by Disney.

  • mirza sahib on June 14, 2007, 18:16 GMT

    Screw the apology to our players, the nation or the board. We got what we deserved by being booted out when we did.

    However, we SHOULD SUE! The Jamaican police should be pressurized by all our diplomatic might (whatever that may be) to make a full and public apology to Mr. Woolmer's family who had to face a nightmare of an ordeal during this time.

    This can be Pakistan's way of thanking Gill for lending us a gem of a person and a wonderful coach, someone who gave his life for our country.

  • Hamed on June 14, 2007, 17:40 GMT

    I definately disagree with you, I dont think you understand the aftermaths of these incidents, this incident definately gave a bad name to Pakistan and Pakistan cricket,You need to watch Mark shields panorama on BBC, he was so certain from day 1 on this one, also the way Pakistan team was treated like criminals, Kamran you need to learn from great Imran khan regarding understanding the situations better and then start a blog on issues and their aftermaths, there was not even an offical opology from Jamaican police on this to Pakistani team or Pakistan. Naseem Ashraf himself doesnt even qualify for the post he acquired in PCB, his stance on this issue is irrelevant.

  • Ed Smythe on June 14, 2007, 16:29 GMT

    Kamran, you are a much bigger man than I am, to be able to forgive and move on, esp. since some of the stuff in the media must have hurt you personally. I for one am all for nailing the English media to the wall. It was so predictable that this unfortunate incident would become just another excuse to talk in dark terms about 'Pakis' and terrorists, etc., etc. Of course no one uses these words, but we all know what they mean. This is as reprehensible an act as if Bob were actually murdered, and we must start holding the closet bigots in the media to account.

  • P.Satish Kumar on June 14, 2007, 16:01 GMT

    marcus, you are absolutely right they will question the players. Even people around a person who dies of a stroke for no palpable reason are questioned.

    The issue is here it was treated as murder. Which means all those who last saw him, which would have been most probably the players, must've been immediately suspects.

    Also from what all I read the three independent pathologisits consulted did not seem to have any amubiguity of the cause of death.

    The police seemed to have built the theory of murder on the Jamaican pathologist's report instead of their own investigations concurring with the post-mortem report.

    There is a difference between "just doing their job" and "playing CSI".

  • Hari on June 14, 2007, 15:46 GMT

    Well I remember very well when Hansie Cronje was accused of match fixing by the Indian Police. There was hue and cry and accusations that Indian Police was incompetent. There were also cries that Hansie Cronje should sue for defamation. All of them backtracked and shut up very quickly when the Indian police produced the evidence. Still South Africans took a long time to let Herschelle Gibbs and Boje testify. There was very little cooperation.

    In contrast the Pakistani players and Pakistan board behaved in a mature fashion. Their players were maligned and there were a whole bunch of innuendos, yet they cooperated and now there is no evidence there was even foul play.

    I dont know whether they should sue or not but I think it should be up to the players to decide whether they were defamed.

  • Irfan on June 14, 2007, 15:38 GMT

    An interesting observation by Captain Swing, seems reasonable. BUT we won't be Pakistanis unless we create hysteria, chaos and mayhem about certain situations. We are spice eaters. Work ourselves up into a frenzy when it’s least needed, decide with our heads instead of our hearts/emotions, should lead with some kind of objective such as national pride or integrity.

    To all you conspiracy theorists out there, objective journalism is a thing of past, we live in the age of sensationalism! LIVE and LEARN. They did what they had to do! and would still have done the same had it been any other country! Period. It is in how quickly you muster your resources to cope with a certain situation and that is our BOARD (reacting instead of responding). How quickly you analyze a worsening situation and your level of preparedness to response. They wouldn’t know where their left foot is, even if their life depended on it. Analysis and strategy are words that do not exist in their dictionary

    Perks! Now that is something Nasim Ashraf will understand, because he was hot hoofing different countries at the time this drama unfolded. He didn’t have time to put together a team that could be made up of personnel who would be equipped to handle this situation. Have a strategy in place. NO they will never learn! Even now they will just let it go.

  • Sriram Dayanand on June 14, 2007, 14:56 GMT

    There are only two things at work here - utter forensic incompetence and more disturbingly, a vulture-like mentality of the media.

    What the police did after the blunder of the pathologist is perfectly normal and acceptable. DNA testing and questioning of all and sundry in the hotel was perfectly par for the course as far as police work went - when operating under the assumption of murder. let us not forget that Brian lara, who was staying in the room opposite Woolmer's, was also DNA-printed.

    The really disusting thing in this whole episode has been the sensationalist, insensitive, incompetent and thoughtless interpretations of the media - and here, the British media stand head and shoulders above the rest, with the Indian press and TV coming next. Sly inuendos, subtle accusations and direct speculation of who might be involved and what their motives might have been, were pumped up to such a level so quickly that I can only imagine how the Pakistani players and officials might have felt at the time (on top of dealing with their own disastrous showing at the World Cup). It is also important here to mention the amount of air time everyone gleefully gave to Sarfraz Nawaz. Why is it that his standard conspiracy-laden-fests are so eagerly lapped up by the highest of the mightiest of journalistic institutions ?

    I don't know about the legalities that can be involved here, and I am sure Brian Lara, for example, would have the same legal course of action that the Pakistani players might have, but what the Pakistani team is owed is an unconditional apology by all the newspapers and TV channels that had any part to play in making sure that their lurid accounts of what might have transpired propelled this story to even the headlines at North American news outlets like CNN.

    Shame on them..

  • Suhaib Jalis Ahmed on June 14, 2007, 14:29 GMT

    But one funny aspect is that Pakistani investigators went to Jamaica a few days after Woolmer's death, and came back in a week concluding that there is no evidence of murder.

    I never thought I would say this but... I guess our guys are not that bad, eh? :)

  • Suhaib Jalis Ahmed on June 14, 2007, 14:24 GMT

    Well, first of all, it is comforting to know that Bob Woolmer was not murdered.

    I believe that Jamaican Police should issue an apology not only to Pakistan Cricket, but to the world of cricket, because they managed to completely ruin anlready lifeless World Cup because of this murder theory.

    I dont think that Pakistan should sue the Jamaican authorities. What is there to gain from that?

    But the PCB should issue a strong statement clearly saying that any future baseless accusations of this kind will be dealt with by taking legal action. It should be made clear that we wont tolerate such humiliation in the future.

    Our players played extremely badly, but they are still a source of pride for us.

    If there is one person who should be sued it is that pathetic mistake for an expert they call SARFARAZ NAWAZ.

  • R.H.Rizvi on June 14, 2007, 14:09 GMT

    Marcus u have to understand that honour is all we Pakistanis have.Naseem Ashraf should go.And an ex army general with guts should replace him.

  • Zakir Khan on June 14, 2007, 14:05 GMT

    Well Kamran I strongly feel that PCB must ask atleast for a public appology from Jamaican Police in particular and the Western Media as a whole that they were busy in mud slinging over not only the Pakistan Cricket but the whole nation.I leave here in UK and i saw derogatory remarks in some of their Tabloids newspapers about Pakistan as a nation and its cricket team.even in their electronnic media they didnt hold back from maligning Pakistan as a nation.different theories were put forward by these so called ''Civilised'' people that Bob Woolmer was killed by Islamic Extremists and so on. SHAME ON U. they definetly must appologies for their sickening behaviour. at the same time I totally agree with Imran Khan that cheapsters like Sarfaraz Nawaz should be tried in Courts because initially it was he and the Indian Media who didnt leave any stone unturned to malign Pak team for Match Fixing and all the rubbish in the world.to me ppl like S Nawaz should be banned from media in Pak as we shouldnt give any coverage to publicity hungry cheapsters like him.at the same time we shouldnt be expecting any good from Indian Media. Like all Pakistanis I am happy and relieved that the truth came out at the end.

  • Englebert on June 14, 2007, 13:08 GMT

    It never ceases to amaze me how some bloggers believe that everything was OK with the way this case was handled by the police.

    So, I ask, if the same situation were to happen all over again, would you prefer to see the authorities continue to handle it he same way they did ?

    Anyone who believes this was not a badly botched bungled case by bozos is either being naïve or has very low standards.

    Ultimately, there is one truth that no one can argue against: Before you point the finger, you'd better be damned sure of yourself.

    Especially when international sensitivities are involved.

  • JAVED A. KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on June 14, 2007, 13:06 GMT

    To say 'let it go' or bygones are bygones or to show to the world that we are very forgiving kinda people hence we forgive. Or, to say there is a delay in justice but its not denied, 'dare hai andhare nahee' is all fine when the case is being dealt at an individual level, 'coz then its up to the individuals. But, when the whole nation is accused or maligned for no reason and only on the basis of suspicion, then the citizens of that country have the right to express their views, some may call it absurd and some say its righteous to sue. There will never be a total agreement. I think the justice was delayed but the accusations have dented and tarnished the image and the honour of the players and the country and a simple apology won't suffice even that will be hard to come from them. Until and unless you stand up and slap them on their face, they won't stop doing this again.

    My opinion is Pakistan must come back on them very hard and not let this thing go like the case of, "Hair today gone tomorrow." D' Hair should have been sued too but, he was pardoned and forgiven and, why? For doing all that he did intentionally to bring disgrace to the Pakistani team by changing the ball at his own will on the notion that it was tampered? What were the implications of that action? He indirectly called Pakistani's as cheats by that ball tampering accusation and in some sections of the media, the word "cheats" was actually flashed very boldly. On records Pakistan lost the test match which they were winning comfortably. Besides, that man had a history of showing hate, remorse and racism. So, what was the point in forgiving him especially since it was not a mistake but a deliberate attempt to defame a team and the country. On top of that he had the audacity to demand half a million dollar to settle the matter. If Pakistan had set an example then by suing him and sending a message across that any malign intent from anyone to bring ill-repute or tarnish the image of their players or the country shall not be taken lightly and shall be dealt according to the court of law. This so-called mystery murder case may not have gone this far.

    The reason Imran Khan is in favour of suing is 'coz, he is talking from his own experience, when Ian Bothom and Allan Lamb pressed the libel charges against him and dragged him to the court and when they failed to prove and lost the case, Imran sued them back and claimed the damages. They or anyone else will not dare to do that again. And what was the point of Nasim Ashraf hiring a £30,000 a day lawyer from London to defend the ball tampering case and then also call him to Pakistan to defend the PCB against their own players Shoaib and Asif. And now, what is wrong in suing those who have tried to ruin the careers of some players and once again tried to tarnish the image of the country based on their stupid notions and speculations and the ever changing theories on how he must have died. And who knows whether they were stupid or it was all planned and intentional?

    Is it not a possibility that Dr. Ere Sheshaiah had some maligned intentions to do this along with his other culprits? If one wants to speculate why they must have done this, there could be many theories, and it could be a deliberate ruse to make financial and personal gains, to become more famous and to stay in the limelight etc. So, why should one consider them to be honest, innocent or ignorant? They did a very BAD professional job! Here, some experts are talking about suspects and, in their view everyone associated with the deceased is a suspect. So what if the team was considered as suspects? "Everyone associated with the deceased" has a very broad meaning, his wife and family are the closet associates but they were not on the scene so they are not suspects. But, in that hotel there were several hundred people, apart from the team and no one else was treated with suspicion, why? Although, they say that they interviewed so may of the hotel staff who went in to his room or who were in contact with him, but the only ones whose finger prints and DNA samples were taken were from the team, why not the hotel staff? And why not the other team members from other countries staying in that hotel?

    Btw, the Deputy Commissioner of Police and the Pathologist are deemed to be very responsible people and before they make any public announcement, they must be 100% sure of what they are announcing instead of throwing out speculative theories in public. Its OK to discuss such theories in a forensic classroom or inside their chambers but, not in public. Therefore, for not being professional, they must resign or the authorities must sack them. But, thats not gonna happen. Therefore, it is imperative that the PCB take a stance and sue them. But, thats too much to ask from Mister Peter Piper who can only dance at the tune of His Master's Voice.

  • Owais on June 14, 2007, 12:42 GMT

    I believe Dr. Ere Sheshiah should be fired by Jamaican government. It clear that he did not have enough evidence for calling it a murder. Mark Sheilds should also be fired for saying that he was "100%" sure that it was indeed a murder. He kept saying that right till the end. By the way, people who think it was a cover-up should explain why none could find a single suspicious action, let alone an evidence, that justified murder investigations ? Obviously that Dr. was the reason. Other doctors have said that although post mortem is not an exact science, in case of manual strangulation, its very easy to judge if that were the case. One small broken bone is not enough of an evidence. Please read New York times article today which states that same Dr. Sheshiah was involved in another controversical post mortem of 7 murders - the objections were raised by Amnesty International over the procedures followed. Summary: Fire Sheshaih, fire Shields !

  • omer on June 14, 2007, 12:33 GMT

    I think it's not Mr Shields fault, it's that useless and incompitent, Pathologist who is the problem here. He should be investigated for the reson behind wrong report. Was it sheer incompitence or something else.

  • trump on June 14, 2007, 11:45 GMT

    Pakistani players should given english training and training to handle the media well, the cricketers' inability to communicate gives negative idea

  • Rajan on June 14, 2007, 11:45 GMT

    I think the pathologist should add a few more letters to his first name. It shold be changed from Ere Seshiah to Eerie Seshaiah. Mistakes do happen and all that, but he seems like a scary dude. First a misdiagnosis and then he tries to brazen it out.

  • Shifan on June 14, 2007, 11:37 GMT

    I think pakistan media are not persuasive enough, they should try to come up with new ideas to neutralise the bad image created, especially by indian media.

  • Ammar on June 14, 2007, 11:25 GMT

    Here I heard all the stories and rumours in the media, they gave it enough coverage.

    The new findings he DIED of NATURAL causes only got 10 secs at best, on talk back radio for the last 2.5 months, from Pakistan to Islam everything was given an unfair name. Now there are no apologies, its been swept under the CARPET.

    Time to STAND UP FOR YOURSELF, if not that FOR YOUR COUNTRY, Inzy should have sued Hair and he should sue Jamiacan Police, think about what any other country what do ?

  • marcus on June 14, 2007, 9:33 GMT

    I agree with Deano el Beano, Mark S, Raza and Captain Swing. At the time, the police thought that Woolmer had been murdered. As such, it was only natural that they question the people closest to him- namely, the team and support staff. It's absurd to talk about suing them for doing their job. At the same time, it's just as absurd to bring "Pakistan's honour" into this.

  • Abdul Kalam - Chicago on June 14, 2007, 7:47 GMT

    Jamaica with its Interpole Police Chief is still a Banana Republic so we can't really blame them for this pathetic drama that was played. But just for the sake of a lesson for the future, I say GO ahead with the litigation. I am in favor of involving the Jamaican Government Officials who gave these statements on the record as well as their media conpirators who tried to make this look like a revenge of a team member upon his beloved coach. They made it look like this was another "clash of civilizations". PCB or at least any player should start thinking about this seriously or we will be paying the price for the "Darrell Hair" controvercy for a long time. -May Allah rest the soul of late Bob Woolmer.

  • Khizar Hayat Khan on June 14, 2007, 7:45 GMT

    For me the first priority is to clean our own Augean stables. I mean black sheeps like PJ Mir who was not short of giving new ideas to the media and Jamaica Police about our team. He thought very highly of himself and said he fears for his life (imagine!).

  • saleem khan on June 14, 2007, 7:22 GMT

    dear Abassi we as acricket loving nation remained on the recieving end since test series in England till finalisation of investigations by Jamacian Police. Let us now show to the biased British&Indian media in particular &the world in general that TRUTH can not be hidden.We should respect BOB's faimly no doubt ,but protect own self respect. No media whether British Or Indian will tender any appology to our cricters or public.They have such unwritten rules for themselves,please wakeup & REPLY.

  • Anupam on June 14, 2007, 6:40 GMT

    Dude, wake up!!! Can't you see this is a cover up? Bob was murdered, and that's a fact. But too much political pressure has resulted in a final clean chit. The truth, I guess, will never come out.

  • Haroon on June 14, 2007, 6:19 GMT

    You cannot blame an organisation I guess for lack of professionalism. But they should definately take some action against Sarfraz Nawaz!!! How can a man make such wild accusations and get away with it??? The media are always looking for juicy stories ... and Sarfraz is the juice mixer!!!

  • marcus on June 14, 2007, 4:35 GMT

    I have a question for P. Satish Kumar. Given that the police were treating Woolmer's death as murder, do you think that they SHOULDN'T have questioned the Pakistan team?

    Jamil, who are "they" and what is this so-called conspiracy?

    Captain Swing- bravo.

  • Imran Iqbal on June 14, 2007, 2:47 GMT

    Kamran, I'm afraid that you didn't get right even this time. Well, apology or suing Jamaican police may not be appropriate as one can argue this may happen during the course of investigation. It is good to see mud is finally on the face(s) of Jamaican police and yellow jounalists across the world. As many people are pointing to the fact that other cricket boards would have provided full & prompt legal support to their players, how come we let PCB & DrAshraf go. He was quick to close chapter before figers being pointed to him. This is so typical of Pakistani mentality where we screw our own people on minor grounds (losing world cup) and smile at foreignersto show our big heart. If Nasim Ashraf does not seek apology from Jamaican Police then he better apologize to all players and Pakistan Cricket. If someone should be fired, it must be from PCB & Co. But they might sit another committee to investigate PJ Mir's dictatorship this time

  • Raza FROM NJ on June 14, 2007, 2:12 GMT

    Its time to move on and let Bob Chacha rest in peace! Sue who and why. Police investigation always looks at the closet people around the victim. If a wife is murdered the husband is the 1st suspect! So for the Paki team to be suspects was a normal conclusion. Ireland team, West indies team and scottish team were all finger printed and DNa samples taken. Jamaican authorities let pak team go home so they immeditley were ruled out as suspects. I don;t like shields or the jamaican police but they did not directly acuse pak team of murder. The media came up with these theories of poison, champagne bottle, snake venom, strangulation, and pesticide. Let Bob rest in peace and move on pak fans. Its time to pay respect to bob and look fwd to Malik's era

  • Asim Kamran on June 13, 2007, 23:48 GMT

    Not suing is acceptance of guilt by Pakistan that hoepfully something more does not come out ( more murder enquiry, match fixing, illegal handling of ball etc.)

  • Mark S on June 13, 2007, 23:21 GMT

    First and Foremost people have to come to grips with reality. Fingerprinting and DNA tests are an integral part of modern day crime scene investigation. We are not living in a medieval age anymore. I still think that "Murder was the Case"....the case has been botched up and has been a cover-up by some powerful people, whoever they may be. It is a sham of the worst kind that you can imagine. It makes me sick to the stomach to even comprehend that the killers are still at large.

  • Osaid on June 13, 2007, 23:06 GMT

    I don't really see what good is going to come out of a lawsuit. Maybe someone commenting after me can clarify that. Forgive and forget. And let's concentrate on cricket please.

  • Awas on June 13, 2007, 22:36 GMT

    I agree with Kamran Abbasi and Dr Nasim Ashraf on this as I believe a litigious court case will achieve nothing but satisfy some egos. But perhaps the most striking thing of all was that Inzamam, who was in the mix of all this, also wants to let it go. No one is in a better position to judge the degree of humiliation and what the team and the captain went through than the captain himself. Very honourable of Inzi indeed.

    Basically, it was a trial by media due to incompetent handling of the case by Mark Shield’s team, exacerbated by Dr Ere’s erring. I am though quite flabbergasted by some bloggers mindless verdicts of “let’s sue them”. On what grounds? Suspicion? In a suspected murder case everyone associated with the deceased is a suspect. If a close family member had been around they would have been suspect too. As is usual in a murder case a close family member such as spouse is suspected first. I don’t recall the police ever saying “Pakistan team is suspect”. On the other hand it was some PCB officials making statements that the players are no longer suspect whilst the investigation was still going on. Upon which Mark Shields made statement that we have ruled no one out yet. Isn’t this usual in a criminal investigation to rule no one out until a suspect is actually found? There is no justification for a court case as it would achieve nothing except to make some lawyers very rich.

    Most sensible comments were perhaps made be Mike Holmans, in his first three paragraphs, earlier in his blog that everyone around was suspect and that our board should have been more supportive of our team and the investigation process.

    Bob after all was our coach. Many players said after his death that he was “like family”, “like a father to us” etc etc. Younis Khan’s reason to run away from all this probably had a lot to do with the hurt he must have felt after Bob’s death and don’t forget he had already lost his father and a brother not too long ago.

    For me there were two disappointing aspects: Firstly, in the news conference when the police commissioner was announcing that the case is closed and rightly offering condolences to Bob’s family, but no mention of the hurt that the Pakistan team must have felt after losing their coach and a “father figure”. And the second, Sarfraz Nawaz making irresponsible claims. Wasn’t it Dr Nasim Ashraf suing him for defamation and rightly so.

  • Deano el Beano on June 13, 2007, 22:32 GMT

    Jamaican police should not be sued for doing their job. They had to investigate all possible leads and scenarios in determining Mr Woolmer's death. They didn't accuse anyone in the Pakistan team of anything, they just investigated and tried to get evidence. If Pakistani cricket authorities try to take legal action action the Jamaican police, they will just look churlish and even suspicious. Take the high road for once.

  • Ali Javed on June 13, 2007, 22:00 GMT

    I think PCA should sue the jamican police. Also, the PCA should sue Mark Shields. His false reasoning behind bob's death affected alot of Pakistanis aroud the world. He should appologize to PCA. I think there should be a way that every major news channel, newspaper, and journalist who did reports, and wrote articles in which there main concept was that pakistan was too mad behind pakistan getting out of the world cup earlier should also appologize to all pakistanis. all the things that specifically the western media said about pakistani cricket and fans made life a bit harder for us. It is time that they appologize and rewrite the correct events that happened after Bob's death. Thank you.

  • Amjad on June 13, 2007, 21:10 GMT

    Well, I disagree because I have seen in the UK that any wrong allegations and press without proof, is taken to the court and legal settlements (both financial and apologies are obtained). it is a normal practice. Why to leave a door open for those paid journalists?, who would throw dirt at any time they would sense an opportunity. I strongly urge to tackle the issue once and for all.

  • Faesal on June 13, 2007, 21:06 GMT

    Any self respecting team or cricket board can't let this go without any kind of retribution. It was embarrassing the way the whole farce was handled and how shabily the players were treated. At the very least the pathologist and Mark Shields must be shown the door. But it all looks like a pipe dream because I am certain the PCB doesn't have a spine either.

  • Dr KM Husain on June 13, 2007, 21:05 GMT

    Right on, I could not agree more! Let's again respectfully remember Mr. Woolmer for all he did for Pakistani cricket and move on. There is only one best way to silence the detractors, and that is to be THE winning team. Let us remain focused on that in Bob's memory. Thank you!

  • Haroon on June 13, 2007, 20:24 GMT

    The Jamaican Police, cricket writers and Sarfraz Nawaz should be ashamed of themselves. During the Woolmer saga in Jamaica, Pak team conducted with decency and great character. I have been to Kingston Jamaica, in my opinion, one of the worst place on planet earth if not the worst. Expecting their police to have a clue is expecting a miracle. Let's close this chapter and move on. The world knows who have egg on their face.

  • Vivek on June 13, 2007, 18:48 GMT

    People shouldn't forget the role played by the racist British / Aussie media - Their reports were slanderous, irresponsible and mischievous. Even now they're playing the racial card, referring to "Indian born pathologist" while ignoring lily white, incompetent, attention-seeking UK born police chief Mark Shields

  • jamil on June 13, 2007, 18:27 GMT

    whenever they get chance they hurt the poor nations economically by freezing assets ,santions .We know clearly who is behind this conspiracy.

    Why trying to be kind hearted,forgiving against the merciless evil.they will be laughing their hearts out at ouy stupidness of nottaking any legal action

    but no, we are trying to prove how great we are like film heroes that forgive. we are stupid,unfortunately and nothing can be done about that

  • Captain Swing on June 13, 2007, 18:17 GMT

    first of all Dr Abbasi, congratulations on the Journal for the RSM - always interesting. I'm an Englishman and I have been reading this blog now for about a year.

    At first I thought that Pakistani fans were just like English ones: hang the administrators, shoot the selectors, flog the errant fast bowler (Harmison/Shoaib) and sack the captain. All healthy stuff.

    Then I got a little bit concerned that the honour of Pakistan seemed to be involved so much. When Mike Atherton, as England's captain, was caught with ball tampering sand in his pocket, we all thought the honour of Mike Atherton was involved rather than England's. When the dislikeable Mr Hair fined the Pakistan team for unproven ball tampering, we were all (including the press) on Inzie's side; but we didn't understand why the honour of Pakistan was involved. After all, when Afridi did a few little twirls on the pitch in his spikes, the honour of Pakistan never came into it.

    Next came the appalling disaster of defeat by Ireland. i can certainly understand the outrage, and could think of no words of comfort. Following that up with the farce of a murder theory for poor Bob Woolmer's death was close to unbearable. As an aside, I'm a long time Kent supporter and watched Bob play often. He had rare courage and skill in facing fast bowling in the helmetless age.

    Fate has been cruel (and very much so for Bob's family), and I think it right that Pakistan's representatives should demand an inquiry that would lead to sacking the idiots involved.

    BUT the honour of Pakistan is not involved. The world is not plotting against Pakistan.

    You, even now, have some great batsmen and some promising bowlers. Stop being so hysterical, put a good side together and win some Test matches. If you lose some (and even the Australians do) I promise you it won't damage the honour of Pakistan.

  • Englebert on June 13, 2007, 18:02 GMT

    Not sure why Holmans defending the police and attacking PCB / Imran.

    If anything the image of the police took a battering. They handled this case with all the competency of the Keystone Cops. Firstly they did not bring in the experts, said it was manual strangulation, then possible poisoning, perhaps a bit of both. Then said the videotape was telling, then nothing. Said the Pak players were not clear, then clear, then not clear...and now, no murder.

    Anyone with half a brain cell would've questioned the credibility of the cops mid-way thru the investigation based on their utterances and bungling behaviour.

    Imran, the PCB and Pak cricketers have every right to complain. That is a natural reaction to false allegations. If you, your kin or close ones were put in a similar situation...you'd be bleating too.

  • srini on June 13, 2007, 17:40 GMT

    Dude, After the incident, the obvious course of action was the murder investigation. There is no escaping the fact that what happened before Bob's death had a bearing on the death itself. And whom would you suspect but the Pak team, match fixing allegations, etc??? Now that this result has come out, Pak people should be relieved and thank their stars that it was not a murder. Blaming the reporters for what they reportes shows a hypocritical attitude. In fact, there is a large group of people who beleive that a major cover up operation involving several agencies has taken place here.

  • Ali Asim - Saginaw, MI USA on June 13, 2007, 17:36 GMT

    I respect your thought, but can't agree with you on this matter Kamran. Just imagine how would things be if it was any of the western cricket playing teams accused of this propaganda. We can't go after certain biased medias and there is no point in doing so as it will change nothing. But we can go after the reason that triggered this mayhem. Someone said it correctly above me that these culprits, jamaican police and their so-called pathologist, need to be made example of and some hard action needs to be taken against them to show that it was'nt alright to treat Pakistani National team like criminals, it was'nt right to impose someones blood intentionally on us by falsely engineered and fabricated allegation. These people should be taught a lesson that will send a clear signal to the whole world that we are not a bunch of panzies who will take shaft from anyone for no reason and keep bending over for one after another. We should protect our self pride and fight for it, and if someone attacks it then its our national duty to make sure that they don't get away with it unquestioned.

  • Asad Faizi on June 13, 2007, 17:26 GMT

    Kamran,

    The problem with the logic of taking higher ground is that the water continues to rise, and forces you to keep taking higher and higher ground. At some point, you will have to build a damn to shut the flow.

    It is a consistent pattern with Indian and British media of malign Pakistan every opportunity they get. What is our defense against it, if not a leagal recourse? Or should we just turn our other cheek?

    Asad Faizi

  • Saif Aly on June 13, 2007, 17:05 GMT

    I have followed Cricket for the last 45+ odd years of my life. I have seen Cricketers from Cricket playing nations compete at the world cup level, but having said that, I want to say that with all the hoopla high esteem that surrounded the Pakistani and Indian national Cricket teams before leaving for West Indies for the World Cup, and the way in which both these teams were eliminated from the 1st round by minnows - Pakistan by Ireland and India by Bangladesh - I ask the Cricket loving fans in both these countries to step up and ask why all this commotion? Face it: your players just didn't stand up to it and played cricket to world cup standard. Even after investing millions of dollars (or call it Rupees whatever) over the last 4 years in building cricketing facilites for training and getting your players up to par world standards, I feel that you lot were cheated by your own players. It's time to quit Cricket and move on to a different sport - how about Football or Rugby or track and field events. Even your national field hockey team have let you down. Unheard coutries like Argentina and Fiji are making a big mockery of your players the game you once held in high esteem. And then there is Squash - Pakistan dominated this game for 2 decades (70s and 80s) and then what happened...you lot just crashed out. In the last 10+ years, no world class squash players has emerged from pakistan. So take my advise to you lot is move on and try a different sport. May be in next 10+ years from now, we will hear of a Pakistani or Indian having won a Gold medal in 400 meters hurdles or Javeling or something of that sort at the next Olympics. This can only happen if you try a different sport. Cricket is becoming an out-dated sporting event around the world. Face the facts. How many countries play this game? Only a handful? Then ask how countries in this world play Soccer? I would say around 80%.

  • I Agree on June 13, 2007, 16:46 GMT

    I agree with Kamran.

  • Shaun S Ali Washington DC on June 13, 2007, 15:42 GMT

    I agree with the PCB; it is time to move on. Pakistan Cricket needs to show some class and not run for the stick every time someone (ie British/Indian media) takes a potshot at it. Also, mistakes do happen; I am sure the Jamaican police have faced enough embarrassment. It is not the PCB’s job to point out the faults in the operation, let’s leave that to the West Indian authorities. We need to find the compassion, especially at this juncture where a Pakistan hero has died, and just lay this issue to rest now so that we may finally find peace of mind. Suing them accomplishes nothing other than proving that Pakistan cricket carries a huge chip on its shoulder.

  • Adib Ghaznavi on June 13, 2007, 15:26 GMT

    I personally think that the Jamaican authorities should send a formal apology to the Pakistan Cricket team, specially to each and every player who were put through hell. The media also should be ashmamed of themselves who openly through indirect comments suggested that the Pakistan team were guilty and were made to feel as criminals. This would never have happened if it was any other cricket team (take a guess) and I feel that the PCB and the Pakistan Govt have to ask themselves questions as to why they left it so late in the day to send representation. The guys were left to defend themselves.

    The only thing that the players should now request is for all the DNA test conducted to be destroyed and if not then question the legality of why it should be kept.

    Finally Bob rest in peace and give your family the strength to carry on with normal life.

  • Osman Ali Khairi on June 13, 2007, 15:00 GMT

    Nasim Ashraf, standing up for Pakistan and its honor, is something that will never happen in our lifetime. The guy was made to please the westerners. I have accepted it-) That and how he will continue to stay in power, come what may.

  • Gugu on June 13, 2007, 14:57 GMT

    While I agree that let's leave things for the good of their family and calm it down and move on, I have to say at least the PCB should take some action against Sarfaraz Nawaz. First, he went on disgusting his country by accusing them of match fixing without any proof. Second, (although I don't like to write about politics here), to weaken Imran's position he went to London to give rubbish claims about Imran. A person who is sports committee member of political party comprised of all those who have eaten millions in corruption should be shame of barking all the time about match fixing. This guy does not know to respect the country and his hobby is to ridicule everybody all the time. We must sue him for linking Pakistan team and match fixing mafia to the death of Woolmer so that he understands how to behave in future on someone's natural death.

  • Faraz Rafi on June 13, 2007, 14:08 GMT

    FYI: ESPN is owned by Disney.

  • Englebert on June 13, 2007, 12:45 GMT

    There isn't enough egg to go around....

    The first thing that Shields should've done was to bring in experts from abroad, seeing that this is an 'international' issue.

    Inzi again showed his class by taking the 'let it go' position. Many things one may not like about him, but this is admirable.

    For all those feeding frenzy media, sportswriters, bloggers, ex-cricketers, posters who pointed an accusatory finger..... SHAME ON YOU !

  • Adnan Masood on June 13, 2007, 12:36 GMT

    I do NOT agree with Kamran Abbasi. Unless PCB sues the living daylights of the Jamaican police, if something like this happens again, the whole media circus will jump on the 'malign-Pakistan' bandwagon again. The lawsuit now is a safeguard against future problems.

  • Mike Holmans on June 13, 2007, 12:34 GMT

    Cheema appears to believe that if the England coach had suddenly died under somewhat suspicious circumstances and the England team had come under suspicion, all sorts of legal action alleging defamation would ensue.

    I wonder why?

    Anyone with half a brain cell would realise that a police investigation into a death they regard as suspicious will immediately put the close associates of the deceased under suspicion. It is nothing to do with national honour and everything to do with how suspicious deaths should be investigated.

    The likely reaction of the ECB would have been to issue a statement along the lines of "We have every confidence that none of our players or support staff were involved in the sad death of the coach, but they have nothing to hide and will all be co-operating fully with the police investigation and we hope and expect that the matter will be cleared up as soon as possible."

    The bleating of the PCB and Imran Khan about gross insults and terrible treatment have done nothing to enhance the image of Pakistan cricket to the world at large: it has simply made them look arrogant and gives the impression that they think they are above the law.

  • omar hussain on June 13, 2007, 12:24 GMT

    After so many months of varying opinions Mr.Woolmer's death is still being compounded:it is time this stopped and may the worthy man rest in peace.He will always be a part of Pakistan and we are honoured to have had such a man as a coach.As for the British and Indian media we know from past experience how much sympathy they have for Pakistan but let that go for 'freedom of speech is universal'.

  • Abbas Jaffri on June 13, 2007, 11:33 GMT

    I absolutely agree with mister Satish Kumar.

    I would like to add: The problem is less likely the Jamaican police but rather the press. The press is ruled by the CNNs' and BBC's but even worse: SKY. An example once again here of how the media has manipulated its viewers and how it has sensationalised something so terrible - a murder. Correspondents are always prepared to pinpoint someone in the crowd, and to be true they have the tendency to do this in a disgraceful manner.

    Pakistani's were mourning at the death of their coach. We are glad that this investigation has come to a close. But, we did want to know, just like anyone else in the world, who had murdered Bob Woolmer. If the terrible news would have been that it indeed was a Pakistani, I among many of my friends would have been devistated.

    I think it would be appropriate for the Pakistani cricketers to show strength and keep their chin up. They should do this by playing to the best of their ability and show the world what their true strength and character is.

    Therefore, show respect to the Woolmer family and deal with this case in a graceful manner so not to heart them any further.

  • Shahzad Yaseen on June 13, 2007, 10:49 GMT

    PCB chairman can give hundreds of reasons not to sue the responsible ones, but the fact is that the whole controversy has dented the image of Pakistan Crikect and Pakistan as a whole very badly. Any sensible person would atleast ask the jamaican police why without any solid proof the DNA tested the Pakistani Cricket team? This is mere insult. And yes, if it were the Australians or the Englishmen, who would have done the same things to them. PCB should sue the jamaican police and ask them to publicaly apologise for what they did to Pakistan Cricket and for what they did to us as a nation. Because in future things can be even worse if no action is taken this term.

  • khansahab(A.A.Khan) on June 13, 2007, 9:32 GMT

    If we think about principles then whoever intended to malign Pakistani players or authorities must be sued. What would need to be established of course is what sources the media was considering during its reporting and where those sources originated. Looking at the anti Pakistani and anti Muslim climate around the world it would not be a bad idea to make some noise and complain, although PCB might not decide to sue when they have to make the ultimate decision.

    The reason why PCB has taken a preliminary (or is it final?) decision to put this matter to rest is because they want the international cricket community to put the matter of Shoaib and Asif to rest as well, in my opinion. So let’s say we’re even now. Mark Shields was involved with Scotland Yard and if he adopted his stance owing to any bias then Britain’s reputation as the preserver of justice and fairness around the world will be damaged to a certain extent.

    I want to know why Woolmer’s wife was so adamant that it was a murder situation. I spoke about this before, when she rebutted her earlier statement stating that Pakistani players had an excellent relationship with Woolmer and could not be involved. Her later comment was that there was some friction and owing to the zealous nature of Pakistani public, the possibility of murder should not be ruled out. How can one consider these two conflicting viewpoints within the course of one week?

    I will not jump to any conclusions and say that there is a significant bias, be that the Indian pathologist, Jamaican media, English media or Indian media, because I want to know the facts before I come to any sound conclusion and my parents have taught me not to hate people for the sake of their different skin, religion, lineage or mother tongue to me and believe it or not that is also what Islam predicates. But I do feel that if PCB have a sound case in law (I think if they raise the argument about players’ stress and anguish being considered as “murder suspects” during the all-important and pre-eminent World Cup, they can claim damages) they should pursue a legal remedy. But as I stated earlier, this is more because of the anti Pakistani and anti Muslim feelings around the Western world, than anything else.

  • khansahab (A.A.Khan) on June 13, 2007, 8:51 GMT

    I thought Mr Abbasi was a seasoned and unbiased individual but I may have been very wrong. I am upset that my reasonable comments are not being allowed whereas biased comments of individuals like Wasim Saqib are being allowed who want to attack anyone who has different opinions to them.

    I developed a soft heart for Wasim Saqib and treated him with respect but I am shocked to see his comment that people who have roots in India are defending the Indian media. What a stupid thing to say. Mr Saqib, it seems people with similar roots like you do not really know what “fairness” and “justice” means and all you care about is “apnayism” and parochialism. That is why when someone who has a different opinion to you voices his opinion, you just think he does not belong to your country. The truth is that you have to accept that non Punjabis belong to your country although they don’t belong to your province. But I guess people like you think Pakistan is just “Punjab”. Try and speak out for what is right and stop taking accusations personally. Pakistan was not created by your father or my father. It was created for all of us. You do not own Pakistan. We all do. If you really want to be a proud Pakistani and work for the benefit of your country, adopt the values of sharing, peace and tolerance. I am more “Pakistani” than you firstly because I believe Pakistan was made for all Muslims which includes Indian Muslims too and not just for Punjabis, secondly because I believe in secularism and equal minority rights which were the topic of Jinnah’s first speech as Governer-General of Pakistan, and thirdly because I am a Muslim and for me all Muslims are equal. Mr Saqib, if you call yourself a Muslim then I should enlighten you with the fact that in Islam it is a sin to discriminate on the basis of lineage and language but you do that all the time. Being a keen observer of Indian and Pakistani media both, I can tell you with conviction that Pakistani media has always been more biased against Indians than vice versa. I never stated that Indian media is “unbiased”; all I said was that their bias is being over-exaggerated by Wasim Saqib who made it seem like the sole purpose of Indian media and Indians is to destroy and malign Pakistan.

    And Wasim Bhai, for the record, you also once had roots in “India” when present day Punjab was part of the Indian Punjab. Many people in Pakistani Punjab share their roots with Indian Punjab. But I guess you will hold an exception to them because they speak the same language as you and share the similar culture. In other words they are your “apnays” so they become “special” for you without any qualification.

  • Tif on June 13, 2007, 8:44 GMT

    To be honest it seems as if the Jamaican police proceeded more or less as they should have with the investigation once the coroner's report said that Mr Woolmer had been murdered. Mr Shields had repeatedly asked the media not to speculate so wildly about the murder. It was the behaviour of the media that was so shameful. Having said that I doubt if anyone can make charges stick against the various newspapers that speculated so wildly. I agree with you - all this talk of suing should be dropped, with the possible exception of Sarfaraz Nawaz who really concocted a whole series of lies to get in the limelight and sparked off the media frenzy. Someone should really take him to task for it.

  • I Wonder on June 13, 2007, 8:32 GMT

    There are going to be a lot of theories about Bob’s sad demise and rightly so. The ICC is involved and their hand is all over this investigation. Bob was around when Hansie admitted to match fixing, him and Bob were close and when Hansie was despatched Bob was very upset. Now Bob has gone, and there has been a massive U turn on the investigation, it will be interesting to see if Mark writes a book about the investigation. If he tells the truth I think a lot will come out, especially the pressure he was under to drop the murder investigation.

    So now Hansie is gone, Bob is gone, who is next? Gibbs? Crookes? Mark? If I was them I would look over my shoulder.

  • Imran A Javed on June 13, 2007, 7:58 GMT

    Personally Kamran, I think board has made the right decision of not taking any legal action after this new findings or conclusion about the bob case.

    Having said that, the PCB should however lodge a protest to the Jamaican Govt. and request them to find out the motive behind the initial conclusion made by the INDIAN ORIGIN Jamaican pathologist Dr. Ere Seshaiah and that of Mark Shield.

    It can be a professional error as well and the latest conclusion showed that it was. After this do the pathologist and the police commissioner still deserve to be where they are? In case if they are then in our next tour of West-Indies, we should play matches all over WI but in Jamaica. I am sure at-least this we can do.

    Our all the precious consolations to bob’s family were a consolation from suspected murderer’s consoling the family. After Bob’s natural death conclusion by the police we as nation should let Bob’s family know how deeply we miss the wonderful person like Bob. This is one more area where the board should approach the bob’s family and convey them Pakistan’s feeling.

  • P.Satish Kumar on June 13, 2007, 7:36 GMT

    Pakistan has to drag Jamaican Police to court!! They should end the careers of each and every officer involved in this "investigation"!! Can you imagine what would've happened if three other independent pathologists were not brought in? It would've been a case of picking a Pakistani's name from a hat and we could all have seen him hanged!!

    It is unthinkable that an innocent be treated like a murderer.

    Even in India it was sick to listen to people discuss "You think Inzamam might have killed him? He is a big man, you know..", "Maybe Younis did...He is a temperamental guy".

    Jamaican police has to pay the price for this defamation.

    Ideally no innocent person would like to be accused of any wrongdoing. However, given a choice I am sure no one would like to be associated in any shady way to a murder.

    As such, Pakistani cricket has had a hard time. How many people do they keep forgiving? First it was Hair and his perverted umpiring, then it was the Jamaican police and what next?

    Jamaican police has to be made an example of.

  • Saif Abbasi on June 13, 2007, 7:28 GMT

    MR Abbasi, if it was woolmers family suspecting the pakisani team then one would have immagined not to take any legal action becuase of the mental stress that surfaced due to their family members death. This is alltogether a different story, here the officials who were supposed to be impartial, have done their level best to find woomers blood on pakistani flag, therefore to salvage our pride and stop it happening in future PCB should take legal action against the concerned authorities. I strongly aggree with Mr Amir Akhund about Sarfaraz nawaz, his mouth is always open for rent and he never waste any oportunity to bring shame for our team and Pakistan. I dont know why he is always on the panel, discussing cricket on every channel. Thanks Allah this page is free from him. Saif Abbasi

  • Imran From Rawalpindi on June 13, 2007, 7:28 GMT

    Salaam Kamran I would start by saying on record that we are happy to hear that woolmer death was natural causes and it appear from long distance from git go that this was the case but jamaican police could not let go this opportunity to get their 15 minutes fame. I would demand an apology from jamaican police for making hasty and cheap decisions on a high profile case. There is protocol for dealing with international players when situation like this occurs this is where jamaican police lacked the professionalism and deciplin. I would ask indian channels to cut the bull C**** and start behaving like good neighbours ( I said that in reference to what they showed on their T.Vs in regards to woolmer death and giving impression that pakistani player had anything to do with it) We want nothing short than an apology from jamaican police for treating our national team in shame way and doing nothing but giving out daily leeking dose of sensational news to the world and we should not sue them because they are not worth it.I do not expect anything from pakistan cricket board becasue all the board member they treat pakistan cricket as their (ghar ki londi) Allah hafiz

  • Lavie on June 13, 2007, 7:22 GMT

    Aint got no time to read all these posts. So here's my bit. I personally am somewhat embarrassed by all o this. It shows the numerous inadequacies in the Jamaica justice system. At least this large scale erosion of our reputation will force the authorities to make long over due improvements. Suing aint gonna help. Who gonna b able to pay all those possible millions of dollars? What that money should be used for is to improve on the resources that are lacking. Besides money aint gonna buy a tarnished reputation. Paying d Pakistan fraternity jus gonna make them look even worse and its not gonna improve the bad publicity they've gotten over the past few months. Sad to say the situation marred the world cup, cant buy that back either. I think though the Pathologist should resign or be kicked out and we need more than one pathologist. He basically swayed d investigation in that direction. But if he doesnt resign he aint gonna b fired. That too is like Disney buying Cricinfo. Anyway thoroughly regret the whole situation. Hope d reputation of d Pakistanis and of Jamaica can recover. Im outtie!

  • Cheema on June 13, 2007, 7:11 GMT

    Just imagine: instead of Pakistan's Cricket team it was either Australian, English, NZ, or South African then what would they have done to defend their team and honor.

    Now imagine if it was Indian, Bangladeshi, or SL cricket team, what they would have done?

    The answer is: In the first scenario, they would have sued every single soul related to Jamaican authorities, World Cup organizers, and the ICC. Whereas in the second scenario if the team was from the subcontinent (as in reality!) then the NOTHING would have been done by their respective cricket boards or the governments. Instead the victim team would have apologized and offered their full support to the offending Jamaican authorities.

    Such is the difference between "self-respecting" nations and the "self conscious" subcontinent nations.

    So to answer to your question: To sue or not to sue? lies in the above paradigm!

  • the antichrist on June 13, 2007, 6:55 GMT

    Sorry gentlemen, but Pakistan have absolutley no grounds on which to sue the Jamaica police force. Time to grow up.

    You might, however, prevent any memeber of the Jamaican police from ever umpiring in a test involving Pakisatn, like you did with Mr Hair.

    Cheers.

  • zain_toronto on June 13, 2007, 6:06 GMT

    I don't want to take legal action simply out of respect for Bob Woolmer. He needs to be put to rest. BUT there is also the fact that the whole issue was brooded with maligned intentions from the start. Someone wanted Pakistan to be somehow responsible. They tried really hard to make it soo too, they looked for ways for it to be so. I am all for legal action because it was simply the most EVIL of wishes to hold someone from Pakistan responsible. The last piece that was investigated was Bob Woolmer's neck bone, and it turned out that it wasn't broken so strangulation was out of the question. They should have acknowledged that FROM THE START and put an end to it then and there. But they decided to focus on what they wanted it to be. I say the Jamican police department responsible for handling this first be fired then taken to court. I don't think many people realise what kind of stress they put the Pakistani players through. Sorry Mr. Abbasi but Mr. Ashraf got this completely wrong and Imran Khan has nailed it on the head. And all the people the were overjoyed when Inzamam-ul-Haq stepped up to Derral Hair and decided to protest his accusations of Pakistan cheating need to realize what the Jamaican police department did here. They were accusing Pakistani players of murder. Hello, get up and smell the coffee. Take them to the court!!!

  • Naresh on June 13, 2007, 5:46 GMT

    I haven't seen the official press release from the Jamaican police - but from cricinfo it seems concerned only about "Gil Woolmer and her sons" - no mention of a bunch of poor Paki cricketers facing any trouble during that time. So the only people that metter seem to be .... well, nothing new. (Call it some kind of "white" lie maybe;)

    While legal action may not be needed, some kind of strong public statement should be made - its rather condescening on the part of Shields not to apologize to the Pakistan team for this.

    Somehow all through this case, we heard about how it would need "someone with great physical strength to do this and that" and so on - nobody thought that Woolmer was naked - so what was the implication - that he let someone in with no clothes on - so he was gay?

    The "Indian pathologist" that made the statement that Woolmer was nurdered: an interesting angle. This guy reported a broken bone - now who the f... should conclude that its a murder? He or the police? Did he go to the crime scene - did he know where woolmer was and was he to conclude that the bone broke from a fall or was it some thing that the glorious Mr Shields should have figured out? Talk about scapegoats. (More "white" lies?)

  • rahat Baloch on June 13, 2007, 5:45 GMT

    Well said mate. I am fully agreed with you. Let's try to to forget this whole issue and make it example for future. Our cricket board or whole Government performance in this whole episode been not upto the mark. And especially our ex cricket our enemy of state Sarfarz nawaz deserve must have gained very cheap publicity from issuing the statement about match fixing. He instantly became the most honest and outspoken person for the whole forign media. This man should be ban forever. I hope our whole cricket team and cricket board should sue him before taking any legal action against jamican police.

    Cheers

  • mansoor on June 13, 2007, 5:33 GMT

    well well well. this is another farce of a story for pakistan cricket. the thing that hurts me much more than any thing else is the fact that indian media( beleive me i am not an indian basher but if you have seen indian channels during all this hypo drama of woolmer s death, you will agree with me) have very successfully used this event to divert their viewers from the pathetic performance of their team to woolmers death. as a result you can see that the entire structure of Pakistan cricket is changed but in india not even a single change occured. they totaly turned all the heads to the different direction. Sad thing is that our media simply followed their lines. we did nothing to protect our players at any level. you will not beleive that on one indian TV channel, i heard that the DNA tests of pakistani players were taken for the reason that Woolmer was involved in some homosexual activity with pakistani players which have caused his death. our media was as dumb ass as ever and mission successfully completed for them. we should send our media professionals for training to India. This is an open disscussion, i would love to hear responses and if Mr. kamran can make it part of any further column, it would be good.

  • Tughral T Ali on June 13, 2007, 5:32 GMT

    As a Pakistani, i can only feel relief at the finding. at least now all the ridiculous speculations can be put to an end (we hope).

    As a Pakistani i also feel disgusted to the core at the way my team was treated by the world media at large over the last few months. the implication had been clear right from the start; the unstated accusation that the pakistani players had something to do with the 'murder'. we even had some local opportunists like Sarfraz Nawaz jumping in with their own accusations of match fixing (what he wouldnt do for a stint in the limelight).

    i guess its part of a larger debate about racist attitudes. what made it all so believable for a lot of people around the world was that it was a pakistani team involved. had it been the english, australian, south african, sri lankan etc teams, i dont think people wouldve been as ready to jump to the murder theory. sad but true. i guess theres no point in suing anybody. you cant change attitudes thru legal action. at the very least the pakistani team is owed an apology by all those who gleefully piled on accusations. but then again racists are not usually known for being apologetic.

  • MK Beg on June 13, 2007, 5:24 GMT

    I say sue their pants off, not for money but for a unconditional apology to the Pak cricket team and the nation.

  • Raashid Shunthoo on June 13, 2007, 5:03 GMT

    Well, it is high time we close this issue and move on.It will be much wise on part of PCB to treat this issue dead and buried.One can clearly understand how much ordeal Pakistan players have faced during the investigation of this case by Jamacian police.In my opinion the event was much unexpected and both PCB and Govt. of Pakistan were caught on wrong foot.Only later they had worked out some plan of action which diluted the situation in favour of players.Speculations will be always there, but it is high time to forget and forgive for the sake of betterment of Pakistan cricket.

  • Aamir Akhund on June 13, 2007, 4:42 GMT

    I cant say that I am pleased but I sure am relieved that Bob died from natural causes. moving ahead I would like to pass on my condolenece to his family and hope that they would finally find some sort of peace.

    I would also like to take this oppurtunity to make a call on each and every one of cricket lovers in pakistan and around the world to voice a strong voice and make that stupid Sarfaraz Nawaz realize that educated illiterate people ( parhey likhey Jahil loog) should not be talking about our cricket team an its matters.

    I live in Canada and after that insane person went public about the match fixing involvement i had to face all kind of comments from my friends and even my coworkers.

    Finally Kamran bhai i would also appeal you to write some thing on this blog about Mr. Whistle Blower. And for those who dont know Sarfaraz Nawaz is the President of PML- Q sports wing.

  • Akshay on June 13, 2007, 4:13 GMT

    That is a very sensible comment. no point in mud slinging and in any case two wrongs do not make one right. the so-called "thoughtful" writers should be left cleaning chicken on their faces.

  • WASIM SAQIB on June 13, 2007, 0:24 GMT

    If PCB wants this matter to rest and they do not want to start a legal battle against Jamaican Police,its understandable,but they should atleast put pressure on Jamican government through our foreign office that they should hold an Independant Inquiry against Mark shields and that moron pathologist,his medical licence should be revoked or at least he should be fired. These culprits should get punished in some manner, As far as the media is concerned I have already said a lot about that and specially about the role, the Indian Media played during this controversy,although some on this Blog were defending the Indian Media for I dont know what reason,may be they still have some roots in India or they think that Pakistanis don't have the right to defend themselves,whatever the case may be I think as a nation we should never be shy to take a stand for our country.

  • Rauf on June 12, 2007, 23:59 GMT

    Miracles do happen Kamran... may not be Disney but ESPN will do just as well ;)

    I will have to disagree with you on this one. Although some may want to take the approach of "Now that this thing is over with... let's move on from here", they are also leaving the door wide open for Pakistani team to be put through another grinder if another scandal erupts, I hope not on the same scale as this one.

    Either Jamaican police was correct in their first assumption then the killer/s are still on the loose and must be captured and punished... and if they were wrong in their first assumption (which is proven now) through incompetency or for cheap publicity then someone needs to walk the plank for this one. I am afraid if Pakistan just let this one go without taking some legal action then the person or persons in the Jamaican police who were involved in this investigation just got a get-out-of-jail free pass and that is a shame.

    This may also bring some relief to Bob's family to see the perpetrators brought to justice who through sheer incompetence turned this investigation into a circus.

    Just imagine how many heads would have rolled if this was Australian or English team instead of Pakistan. They most likely would not even have been finger printed or questioned as they would have had immediate legal advise from their boards... as opposed to the poor Pakistani team, left to defend themselves. What a farce.

  • Moon on June 12, 2007, 21:52 GMT

    come on Javed, khansaab, wasim, dawar, awas , start talking to each other, you got another platform. Kamran do you also post here with one of above names?

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  • Moon on June 12, 2007, 21:52 GMT

    come on Javed, khansaab, wasim, dawar, awas , start talking to each other, you got another platform. Kamran do you also post here with one of above names?

  • Rauf on June 12, 2007, 23:59 GMT

    Miracles do happen Kamran... may not be Disney but ESPN will do just as well ;)

    I will have to disagree with you on this one. Although some may want to take the approach of "Now that this thing is over with... let's move on from here", they are also leaving the door wide open for Pakistani team to be put through another grinder if another scandal erupts, I hope not on the same scale as this one.

    Either Jamaican police was correct in their first assumption then the killer/s are still on the loose and must be captured and punished... and if they were wrong in their first assumption (which is proven now) through incompetency or for cheap publicity then someone needs to walk the plank for this one. I am afraid if Pakistan just let this one go without taking some legal action then the person or persons in the Jamaican police who were involved in this investigation just got a get-out-of-jail free pass and that is a shame.

    This may also bring some relief to Bob's family to see the perpetrators brought to justice who through sheer incompetence turned this investigation into a circus.

    Just imagine how many heads would have rolled if this was Australian or English team instead of Pakistan. They most likely would not even have been finger printed or questioned as they would have had immediate legal advise from their boards... as opposed to the poor Pakistani team, left to defend themselves. What a farce.

  • WASIM SAQIB on June 13, 2007, 0:24 GMT

    If PCB wants this matter to rest and they do not want to start a legal battle against Jamaican Police,its understandable,but they should atleast put pressure on Jamican government through our foreign office that they should hold an Independant Inquiry against Mark shields and that moron pathologist,his medical licence should be revoked or at least he should be fired. These culprits should get punished in some manner, As far as the media is concerned I have already said a lot about that and specially about the role, the Indian Media played during this controversy,although some on this Blog were defending the Indian Media for I dont know what reason,may be they still have some roots in India or they think that Pakistanis don't have the right to defend themselves,whatever the case may be I think as a nation we should never be shy to take a stand for our country.

  • Akshay on June 13, 2007, 4:13 GMT

    That is a very sensible comment. no point in mud slinging and in any case two wrongs do not make one right. the so-called "thoughtful" writers should be left cleaning chicken on their faces.

  • Aamir Akhund on June 13, 2007, 4:42 GMT

    I cant say that I am pleased but I sure am relieved that Bob died from natural causes. moving ahead I would like to pass on my condolenece to his family and hope that they would finally find some sort of peace.

    I would also like to take this oppurtunity to make a call on each and every one of cricket lovers in pakistan and around the world to voice a strong voice and make that stupid Sarfaraz Nawaz realize that educated illiterate people ( parhey likhey Jahil loog) should not be talking about our cricket team an its matters.

    I live in Canada and after that insane person went public about the match fixing involvement i had to face all kind of comments from my friends and even my coworkers.

    Finally Kamran bhai i would also appeal you to write some thing on this blog about Mr. Whistle Blower. And for those who dont know Sarfaraz Nawaz is the President of PML- Q sports wing.

  • Raashid Shunthoo on June 13, 2007, 5:03 GMT

    Well, it is high time we close this issue and move on.It will be much wise on part of PCB to treat this issue dead and buried.One can clearly understand how much ordeal Pakistan players have faced during the investigation of this case by Jamacian police.In my opinion the event was much unexpected and both PCB and Govt. of Pakistan were caught on wrong foot.Only later they had worked out some plan of action which diluted the situation in favour of players.Speculations will be always there, but it is high time to forget and forgive for the sake of betterment of Pakistan cricket.

  • MK Beg on June 13, 2007, 5:24 GMT

    I say sue their pants off, not for money but for a unconditional apology to the Pak cricket team and the nation.

  • Tughral T Ali on June 13, 2007, 5:32 GMT

    As a Pakistani, i can only feel relief at the finding. at least now all the ridiculous speculations can be put to an end (we hope).

    As a Pakistani i also feel disgusted to the core at the way my team was treated by the world media at large over the last few months. the implication had been clear right from the start; the unstated accusation that the pakistani players had something to do with the 'murder'. we even had some local opportunists like Sarfraz Nawaz jumping in with their own accusations of match fixing (what he wouldnt do for a stint in the limelight).

    i guess its part of a larger debate about racist attitudes. what made it all so believable for a lot of people around the world was that it was a pakistani team involved. had it been the english, australian, south african, sri lankan etc teams, i dont think people wouldve been as ready to jump to the murder theory. sad but true. i guess theres no point in suing anybody. you cant change attitudes thru legal action. at the very least the pakistani team is owed an apology by all those who gleefully piled on accusations. but then again racists are not usually known for being apologetic.

  • mansoor on June 13, 2007, 5:33 GMT

    well well well. this is another farce of a story for pakistan cricket. the thing that hurts me much more than any thing else is the fact that indian media( beleive me i am not an indian basher but if you have seen indian channels during all this hypo drama of woolmer s death, you will agree with me) have very successfully used this event to divert their viewers from the pathetic performance of their team to woolmers death. as a result you can see that the entire structure of Pakistan cricket is changed but in india not even a single change occured. they totaly turned all the heads to the different direction. Sad thing is that our media simply followed their lines. we did nothing to protect our players at any level. you will not beleive that on one indian TV channel, i heard that the DNA tests of pakistani players were taken for the reason that Woolmer was involved in some homosexual activity with pakistani players which have caused his death. our media was as dumb ass as ever and mission successfully completed for them. we should send our media professionals for training to India. This is an open disscussion, i would love to hear responses and if Mr. kamran can make it part of any further column, it would be good.

  • rahat Baloch on June 13, 2007, 5:45 GMT

    Well said mate. I am fully agreed with you. Let's try to to forget this whole issue and make it example for future. Our cricket board or whole Government performance in this whole episode been not upto the mark. And especially our ex cricket our enemy of state Sarfarz nawaz deserve must have gained very cheap publicity from issuing the statement about match fixing. He instantly became the most honest and outspoken person for the whole forign media. This man should be ban forever. I hope our whole cricket team and cricket board should sue him before taking any legal action against jamican police.

    Cheers