South Africa news August 20, 2013

Kallis commits to more ODIs for South Africa

ESPNcricinfo staff
101

Jacques Kallis has committed to playing ODIs for South Africa on a more regular basis, as he looks to stay in the team's plans in the build-up to the 2015 World Cup in Australia and New Zealand. The coach Russell Domingo hopes to have Kallis back for the home ODIs against India later in the year, but cautioned that his workload will still be monitored, given his recent history with injuries.

"Playing for my country has always been both a huge honour and a privilege," Kallis said after meeting Domingo on Tuesday morning. "It remains my aspiration to be available for the 2015 World Cup but, at the same time I know as an allrounder approaching my 38th birthday, I will need to assess my future in the game season by season.

"At the moment I am feeling mentally and physically refreshed and I am looking forward to carry on playing for my country as long as possible."

Kallis, 37, hasn't played an ODI since February 2012 and Domingo's predecessor Gary Kirsten had deemed it "no longer necessary" for him to figure in bilateral series because he was too important to South Africa's Test ambitions. Kirsten had left the door open for Kallis to make a return in major events but Domingo stated that if the allrounder still had hopes of playing the next World Cup, he needed to play sufficient ODI cricket.

"We will manage Jacques' career season by season and take it game by game," Domingo told ESPNcricinfo. "There is no set number of ODIs he will play before the World Cup, but the closer to the tournament we get, the more he will play.

"Forget about his runs and wickets, to have someone of Jacques' experience - whether he makes the World Cup squad or not - will be very important for the developing of younger players. No-one is guaranteed a place in the side and no-one is guaranteed a place in the World Cup squad. It all depends on fitness and form.

"He looks very fit, he has been doing a lot of running. It was good to talk about his ambitions. We will have another formal discussion at the end of the season to plot the way forward."

Kallis has been injured in each of the last five Test series South Africa have played. His' last match for South Africa was the Cape Town Test against Pakistan in February. He missed the third Test of that series due to injury and the one-dayers that followed. He took part in the IPL but opted out of the Champions Trophy despite initially indicating interest in playing.

In Kallis' absence, Domingo had begun the process of identifying batsmen for slots in the top order, with JP Duminy, AB de Villiers and Faf du Plessis marked for Nos 3, 4 and 5 respectively. However, Domingo said this arrangement wasn't set in stone and that Kallis would be accommodated anywhere at the top of the order.

"Jacques can bat at No. 3 or No. 4 and maybe AB can bat at No. 5 so this doesn't really change our plans," Domingo said. "We will try and find some balance. There will still be a lot of opportunities for younger players."

Haroon Lorgat, Cricket South Africa CEO, welcomed Kallis' decision to commit to the ODI squad. "Jacques is an extraordinary player who appreciates the ODI team-building process that is currently under way," Lorgat said. "His availability is welcomed and CSA will do everything possible to help him achieve his personal ambitions while building a new generation ODI team."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 22:15 GMT

    @kartik356: When did I say that SR is the only criterion? We aren't talking about tests here; the question is what's the value of Kallis The Batsman in ODIs. Does he provide anything special? Does he ever make an impact as a batsman? Does he play as per the situation? Check his SR in that 434 match. Check his SR in the SA-Aus league match in WC07. Both were high intensity matches and most others scored at much faster than 100 as per the situation but what did Kallis The Batsman do there? SR of <100 both the times.

    Kallis played so many matches cos he was picked as a AR, that is his value. He won't have been picked as a batsman for so many matches. You are trying to use the effect as the cause.

    In IPL2013, Kallis' SR was 97, is that your proof that he scores runs rapidly in IPL?

    Your bowling analogy is misplaced but even there, his SR would be 6, isn't that awesome? And in a T20 match, econ of 8 isn't that bad. In any case, that was a pretty poor & confused analogy.

  • Shoobhit on August 20, 2013, 13:20 GMT

    Given the significance of World Cup trophy in public perception, it does not come as a surprise that Jacques has decided to continue with his aspiration to win the trophy. The decision, of course, deserves some merit as well. It is even so in the light of recent struggle that SA team put up against SL in their ODI sojourn. Lacking the stability, the team took too literally the concept of "floating batting order". The only thing that was stable in that batting line up was its instability. With enormous experience to his credit, and a recent spurt in his strike rate(even IPL can do some good to cricket)Jacques will surely like to contribute positively towards his team overcoming its Achilles hills.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 22:12 GMT

    @Ragav999:

    A loose & extempore definition for SR would be to see how much the team would score on that SR. If that team total 'seems something to defend" then that SR is quite close to the optimal SR.

    Around 92, totals around 210-220 used to look stiff. India scored 216 vs Pak in WC92 & Pak were under pressure all the time. In those days, 4 RPO was good so anyone whose SR was 65-70 in those days would have done well.

    Of course this is a very fluid situation with several parameters. Some days even 400+ isn't safe & some days teams can defend even 167. But we are talking about the perception whether a given total means something for the bowlers or not.

    SA would score ~220 at the SR of Kallis. 220 was a winning total in 1992 but this is 2013. Even in 2003, 220 wouldn't have been all that stiff a chase.

    Caveat: This is a very loose definition and needs a lot of refinement.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 22:12 GMT

    @SA_Cric69:

    Nice to see that you talking about specific roles for specific batsmen. Easy for me to show why this "specific role" of being his team's backbone doesn't hold for Kallis The Batsman.

    My reply is a combo of my prev comments…

    1.

    Sans Kallis SA score more runs at better SR (35.93@5.06 vs 36.31@5.25).

    If Kallis is the backbone of his team then without this backbone SA Batting should collapse/suffer, isn't it? But the above stat shows that not only does SA batting not suffer but they bat even better in the absensce of this "Backbone".

    2.

    Incl Kallis, SA win 64.87% of their matches.

    Exc Kallis, SA win 63.72% of their matches.

    If Kallis is the backbone of his team and plays a "specific role" then without this backbone the results should show significant dip, isn't it? But the above stat shows that the dip is about as thick as water levels in Sahara.

  • Ragav999 on August 27, 2013, 16:35 GMT

    @Harmony111: First off, I agree that strike rate is important in ODI's and T20's. But what exactly is the optimum strike rate and average in these two formats according to you? Below that would you consider dropping everyone under the sun without any bias?

    After that line is drawn in the sand, everybody can draw their swords and start digging in to the stats to reveal flaws of many of the current generation players.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 16:17 GMT

    @Keith Waters:

    Nice try for a comeback by you by talking about that 50 by Kallis. Did you notice against whom it came? It was Zimbabwe + At Home. Indeed a testament to the supreme batting prowess of Kallis if he needs his home knocks vs Zimbabwe as proof of how good a batsman he is.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 16:17 GMT

    @Keith Waters: I have made a claim, presented several stats to back that claim, presented plenty of context for those stats, have rebutted your counterpoints, haven't received rebuttals for those rebuttals and all this while the sole argument of the Kallis fans has been his high avg and high agg but I have rebutted even that argument a number of times here.

    It would be easy for you to imagine that I have some major dispute with Kallis but it isn't the case. Had I been making wild claims without corroborating them or making a single nasty comment and then running away then one might have called me a troll or a baddie but clearly that isn't the case. I have responded to almost everyone who has replied to me here.

    This article would be locked for comments anytime now, I just want to say that while others may have been doing so, I certainly haven't been moving in vain circles.

    And I repeat I don't dislike or hate Kallis.

  • SA_Cric69 on August 27, 2013, 13:34 GMT

    @Harmony111.... I don't think that your way of using stats to prove your point means much at all. Although it might backup what you're saying about kallis, I believe you're focusing on the wrong thing. As much as SR's are important in ODI's I think they're overated. If everyone in the team needed a high strike rate then there wouldn't be a role for a pinch hitter and no need for openers to face a brand new ball. My point is that everyone has a role in the team and kallis' role has always been to provide the backbone, and every team tries to or should have one of these players. It's built into the number 3 or 4 position. If everyone had high strike rates without one of these players in the team, they would fail quite a lot more with lower scores. By comparing Kallis' pace of playing or strike rates with those of say ponting are irrelevant because ponting went in to bat with a different role for the team. I think that a backbone in ODI's is taken for granted since T20.

  • on August 27, 2013, 12:39 GMT

    actually in all fairness Harmony111 this is pointless We're just going round in circles! best to agree to disagree. You keep thinking Kallis is a poor batsmen I'll keep thinking he is a great player and hopefuly for us Saffa'sl he will just keep doing what he has done for 15+ years

  • on August 27, 2013, 12:07 GMT

    @ Hamorny111 amazing how you keep ignoring the same arguement because it doesnt fit in with your idea? Ok try this Robin Uthappa SR 91 only played 38 games before being discarded Adam Voges SR 90 (20 games) discarded David Hussey (69 games) 91 would you really want him than kallis? Kieswetter SR 89 discarded (46 games) Albie Morkel SR 100 discarded, Devon smith SR 91 in and out of team - so it would seem that to achieve longevity in the game SR is not the be all and end all like you try to make out.

    Oh and heres a little interesting side bit Fastest test 50 in terms of balls? yep you guessed it that man who can't change gears Mr Jacques kallis

    "@Keith Waters: Sans Kallis SA score more runs at better SR (35.93@5.06 vs 36.31@5.25) but concede more runs (26.45@4.64 vs 27.97@4.82)."

    Huh???????????sorry I dont get it who is Sans? think you'll will need to clarify a bit more for me.

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 22:15 GMT

    @kartik356: When did I say that SR is the only criterion? We aren't talking about tests here; the question is what's the value of Kallis The Batsman in ODIs. Does he provide anything special? Does he ever make an impact as a batsman? Does he play as per the situation? Check his SR in that 434 match. Check his SR in the SA-Aus league match in WC07. Both were high intensity matches and most others scored at much faster than 100 as per the situation but what did Kallis The Batsman do there? SR of <100 both the times.

    Kallis played so many matches cos he was picked as a AR, that is his value. He won't have been picked as a batsman for so many matches. You are trying to use the effect as the cause.

    In IPL2013, Kallis' SR was 97, is that your proof that he scores runs rapidly in IPL?

    Your bowling analogy is misplaced but even there, his SR would be 6, isn't that awesome? And in a T20 match, econ of 8 isn't that bad. In any case, that was a pretty poor & confused analogy.

  • Shoobhit on August 20, 2013, 13:20 GMT

    Given the significance of World Cup trophy in public perception, it does not come as a surprise that Jacques has decided to continue with his aspiration to win the trophy. The decision, of course, deserves some merit as well. It is even so in the light of recent struggle that SA team put up against SL in their ODI sojourn. Lacking the stability, the team took too literally the concept of "floating batting order". The only thing that was stable in that batting line up was its instability. With enormous experience to his credit, and a recent spurt in his strike rate(even IPL can do some good to cricket)Jacques will surely like to contribute positively towards his team overcoming its Achilles hills.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 22:12 GMT

    @Ragav999:

    A loose & extempore definition for SR would be to see how much the team would score on that SR. If that team total 'seems something to defend" then that SR is quite close to the optimal SR.

    Around 92, totals around 210-220 used to look stiff. India scored 216 vs Pak in WC92 & Pak were under pressure all the time. In those days, 4 RPO was good so anyone whose SR was 65-70 in those days would have done well.

    Of course this is a very fluid situation with several parameters. Some days even 400+ isn't safe & some days teams can defend even 167. But we are talking about the perception whether a given total means something for the bowlers or not.

    SA would score ~220 at the SR of Kallis. 220 was a winning total in 1992 but this is 2013. Even in 2003, 220 wouldn't have been all that stiff a chase.

    Caveat: This is a very loose definition and needs a lot of refinement.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 22:12 GMT

    @SA_Cric69:

    Nice to see that you talking about specific roles for specific batsmen. Easy for me to show why this "specific role" of being his team's backbone doesn't hold for Kallis The Batsman.

    My reply is a combo of my prev comments…

    1.

    Sans Kallis SA score more runs at better SR (35.93@5.06 vs 36.31@5.25).

    If Kallis is the backbone of his team then without this backbone SA Batting should collapse/suffer, isn't it? But the above stat shows that not only does SA batting not suffer but they bat even better in the absensce of this "Backbone".

    2.

    Incl Kallis, SA win 64.87% of their matches.

    Exc Kallis, SA win 63.72% of their matches.

    If Kallis is the backbone of his team and plays a "specific role" then without this backbone the results should show significant dip, isn't it? But the above stat shows that the dip is about as thick as water levels in Sahara.

  • Ragav999 on August 27, 2013, 16:35 GMT

    @Harmony111: First off, I agree that strike rate is important in ODI's and T20's. But what exactly is the optimum strike rate and average in these two formats according to you? Below that would you consider dropping everyone under the sun without any bias?

    After that line is drawn in the sand, everybody can draw their swords and start digging in to the stats to reveal flaws of many of the current generation players.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 16:17 GMT

    @Keith Waters:

    Nice try for a comeback by you by talking about that 50 by Kallis. Did you notice against whom it came? It was Zimbabwe + At Home. Indeed a testament to the supreme batting prowess of Kallis if he needs his home knocks vs Zimbabwe as proof of how good a batsman he is.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 16:17 GMT

    @Keith Waters: I have made a claim, presented several stats to back that claim, presented plenty of context for those stats, have rebutted your counterpoints, haven't received rebuttals for those rebuttals and all this while the sole argument of the Kallis fans has been his high avg and high agg but I have rebutted even that argument a number of times here.

    It would be easy for you to imagine that I have some major dispute with Kallis but it isn't the case. Had I been making wild claims without corroborating them or making a single nasty comment and then running away then one might have called me a troll or a baddie but clearly that isn't the case. I have responded to almost everyone who has replied to me here.

    This article would be locked for comments anytime now, I just want to say that while others may have been doing so, I certainly haven't been moving in vain circles.

    And I repeat I don't dislike or hate Kallis.

  • SA_Cric69 on August 27, 2013, 13:34 GMT

    @Harmony111.... I don't think that your way of using stats to prove your point means much at all. Although it might backup what you're saying about kallis, I believe you're focusing on the wrong thing. As much as SR's are important in ODI's I think they're overated. If everyone in the team needed a high strike rate then there wouldn't be a role for a pinch hitter and no need for openers to face a brand new ball. My point is that everyone has a role in the team and kallis' role has always been to provide the backbone, and every team tries to or should have one of these players. It's built into the number 3 or 4 position. If everyone had high strike rates without one of these players in the team, they would fail quite a lot more with lower scores. By comparing Kallis' pace of playing or strike rates with those of say ponting are irrelevant because ponting went in to bat with a different role for the team. I think that a backbone in ODI's is taken for granted since T20.

  • on August 27, 2013, 12:39 GMT

    actually in all fairness Harmony111 this is pointless We're just going round in circles! best to agree to disagree. You keep thinking Kallis is a poor batsmen I'll keep thinking he is a great player and hopefuly for us Saffa'sl he will just keep doing what he has done for 15+ years

  • on August 27, 2013, 12:07 GMT

    @ Hamorny111 amazing how you keep ignoring the same arguement because it doesnt fit in with your idea? Ok try this Robin Uthappa SR 91 only played 38 games before being discarded Adam Voges SR 90 (20 games) discarded David Hussey (69 games) 91 would you really want him than kallis? Kieswetter SR 89 discarded (46 games) Albie Morkel SR 100 discarded, Devon smith SR 91 in and out of team - so it would seem that to achieve longevity in the game SR is not the be all and end all like you try to make out.

    Oh and heres a little interesting side bit Fastest test 50 in terms of balls? yep you guessed it that man who can't change gears Mr Jacques kallis

    "@Keith Waters: Sans Kallis SA score more runs at better SR (35.93@5.06 vs 36.31@5.25) but concede more runs (26.45@4.64 vs 27.97@4.82)."

    Huh???????????sorry I dont get it who is Sans? think you'll will need to clarify a bit more for me.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 11:28 GMT

    @Keith Waters:

    Sans Kallis SA score more runs at better SR (35.93@5.06 vs 36.31@5.25) but concede more runs (26.45@4.64 vs 27.97@4.82).

    What does this prove? This proves that when Kallis bats for SA, the team actually suffers and when someone else bats in place of Kallis then the team manages to score more runs more quickly.

    Had Kallis been really all that good an ODI batsman then it should have been pretty difficult for a replacement (who most likely would be a rookie or a 2nd choice) to fill in the gap left by Kallis but stats show otherwise. When a replacement who won't be playing regular ODIs can fill in the gap then how can we say Kallis is really that valuable a batsman for SA in ODIs?

    Someone had asked for more context, I think I have given plenty of context along with stats to substantiate my opinion about Kallis. Let me know where you disagree with me over these stats.

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 11:26 GMT

    @Grant King: I had talked about Sehwag cos someone had compared Kallis to him, however, tests or Sehwag isn't the point here so set that aside for now. Point here is value of Kallis The Batsman in ODIs for SA.

    His debut onwards, incl Kallis, SA's record --- P316-W205-L97.

    His debut onwards, exc Kallis, SA's record --- P102-W65-L34.

    In other words,

    Incl Kallis, SA win 64.87% of their matches.

    Exc Kallis, SA win 63.72% of their matches.

    Easy to calculate the ***IMMENSE VALUE*** of Kallis in SA's ODI team based on these stats. Splitting hairs, you might say that after all, SA do win a tinie-winie less when Kallis doesn't play but in that case I will leave you to feel happy with that last crumbled biscuit of the packet. :-p

  • Harmony111 on August 27, 2013, 10:12 GMT

    @Keith Waters: Amazing that you keep trying to use the same stat time and again in different forms hoping to somehow make a point in favour of Kallis. But sadly, each time you do that I will keep saying that it is easy to have a high avg in ODIs if you keep batting defensively when even the other side isn't looking to take your wicket and is happy to see you taking 3-4 singles per over. In such a situation if you are a decent enough batsman you will tend to get plenty of runs but is this style appropriate for ODIs? So the high avg point has been dealt with, now we come to the high agg point. As an AR Kallis did bring some value to SA team and so he became a preferred player. Now cos he was paying in so many matches as an AR and getting to bat too, with his defensive batting, naturally he will end with a high agg.

    So both his high agg and high avg +points are rebutted here. You need to rebut me on this specifically rather than playing the same trick again and again.

  • on August 27, 2013, 9:14 GMT

    Harmony just want to mention that sehwag scored that 300's and 290 on that featherbed. Indi scored heavily in the one match against SA and then SA scored big also. Game was drawn. You are highlighting a couple of innings where sehwag got runs but overall when its moving around he don't have a clue. During the warne Era the wickets in Australia was prepared for his kind of bowling thus the success of indian batsmen in Australia. Getting back to kallis. Imagine if Kallis were not in the SA team. How many games would SA have won? He was the backbone of the batting for the proteas in both tests and ODI's.

  • on August 26, 2013, 23:31 GMT

    Harmony111 easy way to settle the debate whether he is a good batsman - tell me how many batters or all rounders can you name that have scored 10000+ runs in both tests and ODI's at averages over 44 (ODI) and 55 (tests) if you can name lots of his fellow players then of course he is average however if you cant then surely he is one of a select few, actually make it less select 5000 in each? As for your AR MOM theory thats just an assumption admittedly a plausible assumption however there are plenty good all rounders who don't have that amount of MOM awards.

  • Harmony111 on August 26, 2013, 18:38 GMT

    @Keith Waters: Reg Kallis' 32 MoM awards, I think it really weakens his case even more. In an ODI if any half decent AR scores 50-55 runs and takes 3 wickets he is usually a strong contender for the MoM award. Now cos the claim is that Kallis is a TOP AR then it means per match he would have twice as much chance than any pure batsman or bowler to win the MoM award, isn't it?

    Ponting as a pure batsman got 32 while Kallis as an AR got 32 too and a number of them would have been for scoring 70 runs with 2 wickets or something like that. Note that on its own, you don't usually win MoM for taking 2 wickets or for scoring 70 turtle runs. Its the combo that helped Kallis.

    Each stat shows that while Kallis is a TOP AR but it doesn't show if he is good enough to play as a pure batsman or as a bowler.

    If this article isn't closed then I will show in my next comment a killer stat that should end it all.

  • Harmony111 on August 26, 2013, 18:14 GMT

    @Unnamed FB User:

    That slogger Sehwag who you talk about rather negatively has 2 test Triple hundreds + one knock of 290+ that was faster than a run a ball. Also consider that Sehwag wasn't a natural opener. Also consider that this same fellow scored a 100 on debut in SA itself and a 195 in one day in Aus. This slogger's Test SR is far far superior to what Kallis' SR is in ODIs. This slogger has the highest ODI score ever, clearly Kallis hasn't achieved much by scoring at his tuk-tuk pace while Sehwag has broken records after records … and all that while he was slogging.

    Tests weren't the point here but Sehwag wasn't either. For you to mention him in a dismissive manner forces me to tell you what the mirror says for both Sehwag & Kallis.

  • on August 26, 2013, 14:37 GMT

    @harmony 111.....yes kallis is a good ODI batsman for SA and has proven his worth. Case closed.

  • Harmony111 on August 26, 2013, 14:22 GMT

    This article is 6 days old and so comments will be closed anytime. If anyone is unable to reply to the comments of anyone else then allow me to mention that this debate has been quite entertaining. I thank all the participants here for their time and devotion and for showing that whether we have similar or dissimilar thoughts, we all have a very strong passion for the game. As long as there are such fans the games future is secure.

    Thank you guys.

  • on August 26, 2013, 13:11 GMT

    Harmony Against SA in SA Tendulkar's average is less than 26 at a strike rate less than 66. Now kallis plays most of his cricket in SA where it is more difficult to score quickly and get consistent runs. Also he batted at a crucial place being no.3 or No.4. He played his role as he should.

  • on August 26, 2013, 12:18 GMT

    Harmony 111 I would still pay money to go and watch kallis just for that cover drive and not some bloke like sehwag who just slogs a few out the middle. That SR that you talk about is for games in SA where batting is not as easy as in India. SA have a lot to be thankful for from this man. He was the reason SA scored competitive totals so that SA could win. or keep one side closed to chase a total. Batting is a partnership and if the other batsmen are going well he would rotate. Getting a winning total is about setting a platform for the strikers to come and do the business.

  • Harmony111 on August 26, 2013, 7:58 GMT

    @Keith Waters

    Being exciting isn't the point. I used apprehending in the sense of having the ability of shifting gears, not in terms of "quaking in the boots". Its not imp that you hit 3 6s in an over to look fearsome, but if you look like you could do that as & when needed then the other side is apprehensive about you while you are there. If you are happy with 3 singles each over then they are happy too.

    Pls have a look at Kallis' ODI record; in nearly ALL possible scenarios his SR is remarkably regressive along that 73 line. Vs most teams, home/away, batting 1st or 2nd, any year, under any captain, day/day night, match won/lost, bilateral/tournament, any batting slot --- his SR hovers around 73 ever.

    Seeing his career in halves, we find that his two SRs are similar, so whether he was the anchor or not, it doesn't show in his batting.

    32 MoMs are due to his being a AR, some are due to his bowling alone. Question still remains if he was/is all that good an ODI batsman alone.

  • Harmony111 on August 26, 2013, 7:35 GMT

    @Paul Argyle

    Look buddy, I've never said that SR is the "be all & end all" stat, other stats are imp too but while you can afford to be slow in tests, in LOIs SR's is a hell lot imp & shouldn't be ignored. You can agg 9000 runs@60 avg in ODIs but the SR is poor then you haven't really helped your team. You play so many matches you will end up with some nice agg; you play defensively you will score runs more often than not & will end up with a nice avg.

    Reg …"slice it any way you want"… That's why one needs to use stats in a context and not baldily. I gave the context, you didn't.

    In tests, agg & avg are good enough on their own but in ODIs/T20s, stats also become imp & in T20s they are perhaps the most imp stat. The more risk you take the more likely you are to get out thereby reducing your avg/agg Kallis's gains in avg/agg are due to his play-safe style. Even a half cricket lover will say this is true & even you.

    I saw minute signs of a tiny personal attack in your prev comment.

  • on August 26, 2013, 0:31 GMT

    @harmony111 strange how your happy to acknowledge that Bevan had a different role - why is that not the case for Kallis? in the first decade that Kallis played he was seen as the anchor of the team the one that would bat long, whilst others bashed it around him, SR was not to important as long as he made runs and set the platform. SA where mighty good at it to! I'm pretty sure that from his debut till 2000 they had the best win loss ratio of all teams by a long way so it would seem he performed his role well.

    Kallis played 321 matches so of course you would find some instances where his performance has hurt the team but how about the 32 where he has got Man of the match awards which coincidently is the same amount as ponting but in 50+ less matches?

    And lastly why does a batsman have to "apprehend you" or be exciting just to be classed as good? if their record is the same then surely that should be recognised? and thats before you add in all his wickets!

  • on August 25, 2013, 21:18 GMT

    Harmony111. SRs are not the 'be all & end all' of ODI effectiveness....only you seem to think they are? International (ODI) run aggregates & averages are not MY bald statistics...they are the ones compiled by this website so you can slice it any way you like the fact of the matter is the ones I've mentioned are correct and the two main categories on which great batsmen are judged and yet you think and I quote..." Kallis is a poor ODI Batsman indeed " Honestly I thought some of your earlier (dubious) contributions to this thread were.. " out there "... but this one is just so off the charts that I'm having the last laugh at the crass incredulity of it!!!.

  • Harmony111 on August 25, 2013, 14:22 GMT

    @Paul Argyle: Ha Ha, in one stroke you do admit that taking SR as a parameter, Kallis is a poor ODI Batsman indeed & now want to divert the topic & so you bring in other stats. But you have not answered that point of mine that it isn't special to avg 45 in ODIs if you bat defensively like in Tests cos the bowling is often defensive + limited spells, there are no slips most of the times & usually weak bowlers are available for milking.

    For better contrast, I will use your defense to say someone is a great T20 Batsman cos he routinely scores 50s off 48 balls & averages 50 in T20s @ SR of ~100.

    Ridiculous it is to say that in LOI Cricket agg runs and avg are more imp and SR is to be looked past.

    You talking of ***Bald Statstics***? Aren't they the ones that mislead the most? Btw, I had also given 2 cases where Kallis hurt his team by batting slowly so mine are not bald stats, yours are.

    SRT's SR for his 100th ton was 77 & was said to be poor, Kallis' agg SR is 73. :-p

  • on August 25, 2013, 11:58 GMT

    Harmony111 and all the other so called Kallis critics just need to look past strike rates as THE criterion of ODI selection to objectively his ranking in the one day game. 11498 runs; the sixth best of all time and accumulated in significantly less time & innings than other men around him. Career average of 45.26 the 14th best of all time with seven of the men above him no longer 'active' in that format. Its generally accepted within the one day game that a 40 + average is the benchmark to be regarded as a very fine possibly great batsman. Only 5 men currently playing ODI cricket have superior ones and yet Harmony111 will have it that he was (and still isn't?) good enough to be selected as a specialist batsman!!!. As far as bald statistics are concerned these figures suggest otherwise. Its not always how quickly you score your runs or how effectively you get them its how many.

  • Harmony111 on August 25, 2013, 8:22 GMT

    @Keith Waters: The 36.57 SR stat was about tests, I regret the confusion. Lets look at it this way, Kallis' SR in 90s of 68 was outdated by about one generation and his agg SR of 73 too remains outdated by the same (or even greater) margin.

    I didn't say ever that Kallis isn't a good player. Time and again, here and there I have said that Kallis has been a terrific player for SA and for world cricket. I hold no grudge against him, personal or otherwise. It is indeed admirable for someone to play dual roles for so many years in all formats, no denying that. But my thrust against Kallis is that he has never been an ODI batsman who will apprehend you. Bevan, Ganguly, Inzamam may have similar records to Kallis but barring Bevan they were capable of shifting gears & sadly Kallis isn't much good at it. Reg Bevan, his role was a totally diff one to Kallis. No team would worry if Kallis is batting at 51*, they know Kallis would keep batting in 2nd-3rd gear all through.

    Pls Publish.

  • AltafPatel on August 24, 2013, 12:18 GMT

    Finally, he committed for national team when forced to choose between the nation and IPL. Had to be true South African...!

  • on August 24, 2013, 11:32 GMT

    I'm sorry Harmony 111 you are right I meant to say over 200 runs but still third best still points to one of the best batsman Chttp://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1996;spanval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=batting) these are what I used.

    Also where in the world did you get an SR of 36? surely that is a misquote by you? as you can see his SR was 68.

    Still either way trying to say kallis is not a good batsman when he has a career average of 45 and a SR similar to players of the caliber of Michael Bevan Saruv Ganguly, Inzaman and even M. Waugh and considering that he was also expected to bowl his share of overs suggests that you have a personal grudge against Kallis being acknowledged as a good player. So the question for you is what you got against Kallis?

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 22:07 GMT

    @Grant King: Yes Kallis' avg is 45 in ODIs but what is his SR? What value does he provide to his team by scoring runs at that pace? Kallis is indeed a talented batsman - there is no denying it but for someone with that much talent averaging 45 while playing defensively in ODIs isn't much to sing about. My main thrust against Kallis is his poor SR in ODIs. How is his ODI avg a rebuttal to this point? Btw I know what your defense for his poor SR will be, bring it on. I already have its counterpoint ready in advance :-p

    Fyi, I do like the man, I do like his longevity as an AR. He has preserved himself very well but I like Kallis The AR the most. Kallis The Bowler comes next but Kallis The Batsman in ODIs is hardly any force. Most teams will be happy if Kallis bats for 80-90 balls in an ODI.

    You play so many matches you will score so many runs and while "How many" is imp but so is "How".

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 22:05 GMT

    A no of Kallis fans here are mistakenly (or deliberately) misinterpreting my comments about Kallis.

    @Paul Argyle: You are drawing an absolutely wrong inference from my comment. The question isn't whether Kallis had or did not have the power to influence the selectors or had the desire to say that. No where did I say that Kallis wanted to cherry pick his matches. You are totally wrong in interpreting my comment like that. What I am saying is that the board picked Kallis cos they saw his batting & bowling combined and could see how they could have one extra player cos Kallis would save one place for them. That was the advantage of picking Kallis i.e Kallis The AR. On his batting or bowling alone, Kallis just wasn't good enough to find a place & certainly not as a batsman alone. Bowling wise he might have made a good 1st or 2nd change but as a batsman no chance. His SR in 90s was a staggering 36.57 FYI.

  • kartik356 on August 23, 2013, 13:31 GMT

    @harmony111 buddy,strike rate alone is not a criteria. see kallis average both in test's and odi's and if u say he doesnt score quickly where its required go watch ipl highlights. you said his record are b'coz he has played so many matches but dude if a player is not worth he's not allowed to play so many matches. and for that strike rate issue i'll give you an example... suppose a bowler takes 4 wickets in 4 overs but goes for 32 in every match he plays . according to you he's not a legend becoz his econ. is 8 . but u are clearly ignoring his average.

  • on August 23, 2013, 10:49 GMT

    Harmony 111he average 45 in ODI cricket. Show me how many did that in the SA ODI team. If you don't like the man rather say nothing. He is the reason for SA winning a lot of games with his batting.

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 9:53 GMT

    @Paul Argyle: You are drawing an absolutely wrong inference from my comment. The question is not whether Kallis had or did not have the power to influence the selectors or had the desire to say that. No where did I say that Kallis wanted to cherry pick his matches. You are totally wrong in interpreting my comment like that. What I am saying is that the board picked Kallis cos they saw his batting & bowling combined and could see how they could one extra player cos Kallis would save one place for them. That was the advantage of picking Kallis i.e Kallis The AR. On his batting or bowling alone, Kallis just wasn't good enough to find a place & certainly not as a batsman alone. Bowling wise he might have made a good 1st or 2nd change but as a batsman no chance. His SR in 90s was a princely ***36.57***

    I see that a no of Kallis fans here are deliberately misinterpreting my comments about Kallis. I think they know they can't rebut if they interpreted them correctly.

  • Harmony111 on August 23, 2013, 9:02 GMT

    @TommytuckerSaffa: I will ignore your comment.

    @Keith Waters: If you talk about stats you better be right. A simple statsguru query shows how wrong you are. From 9 Jan 1996 to 31 Dec 1999, Kallis did not have the 2nd best avg, his avg was 3rd best but this a minor error. The major error by you is when you say Kallis had one of the best SRs in that period. Really? Did you even check the stats? In that period, Kallis' SR was an amazing ***36.57***. Be it the 90s or 80s os 70s, that is ultra poor in all eras. Stats show that among the Proper Batsmen who played for SA in that period, KALLIS HAD THE WORST SR and was poorer than even some lower order batsmen /tailender like Dave/Fanie/Hayward. You've ultimately ended up proving my point that Kallis could not have played as a pure batsman but only as an AR. You are my dear buddy now.

    I want to state once again that I have nothing against Kallis The AR, he is a superb AR but that's about it.

  • on August 22, 2013, 23:21 GMT

    @Harmony111. ".. Had Kallis said in 90s that he will play only as a batsman or as a bowler, he won't have played more than 80-90 ODIs..." This is your quote and the inference is clear to me and I daresay to all others in this debate in that you've suggested Kallis may - had he even had the power or influence to say it? -have set his own playing terms & conditions for being included in SAs ODI XI....i.e." I'll play only as a batsman or bowler. " That kind of statement to any national board of any country by any cricketer playing ODI cricket is just frankly ludicrous and you've embarrassed yourself by indicating that Kallis would/could cherry pick his matches & the roles he would be expected to play in them. He'd been given very short shrift had he done so but the mere fact that Domingo has asked him to commit to that format before the 2015 WC has been done on the basis that he will play as an AR as he has always done and will continue to do.

  • on August 22, 2013, 22:46 GMT

    Sorry harmony111 but from his debut in 96 to dec 31 99 Kallis had the 2nd highest average and one of the best SR in the SA team so to suggest that he would have only played 90ish games is laughable, considering he was one of their best batsmen! consider this Kallis SR is only 1.19 runs per game less than argubaly the greatest ever finisher in ODI cricket Michael Bevan (dhoni surely battles him for this title) - and he tripled the amount of hundreds and doubled the amount of 50's in only 100 or so more games which kinda of shows the company he is in as a batter!

    As for sobers dominating series when bowling? please the only times he took more than 20 wickets he bowled a minimum of 223 overs which the only time kallis collected 20 scalps he bowled a minimum 179 overs then of course as batting goes there is about 1 run that separates their averages which kinda suggests there is not much in it!

    Funny how many non-south africans clamour to ridicule Kallis's acheivements?

  • Shazy777 on August 22, 2013, 21:58 GMT

    Kallis is the only player of the world who score century & taking 5 wkts in a match...

  • Harmony111 on August 22, 2013, 21:37 GMT

    @highveldhillbilly: My bad, I had overestimated you. I am sorry for using SRT as the benchmark there, really really sorry. It seems SRT's is too high a standard for Kallis as per you. Easy to amend it though. Would it please you if Kallis is compared to some other player such as Afridi or Mahela or Damien Martyn or Lehmann???

    Fair enough, perhaps Kallis does have a better record than Afridi or Mahela, I guess now you would be happy. I think that's all you would want; to be able to say that *at least* Kallis is better than Afridi or Martyn. Not bad at all I must say that. :-p

    The latter part of your comment shows that you don't quite know the thing called Cause & Effect. Tell me, would Sachin have a high Strike Rate cos India had a high Scoring Rate in that match or would India have a high Scoring Rate cos Sachin (+ others too) scored runs at a high Strike Rate?

  • TommytuckerSaffa on August 22, 2013, 21:35 GMT

    @harmony Kallis is the king and having spent most career on more difficult wickets is a far superior batsman to sachin. (And he doesn't cheat). Don't forget kallis has a better average and almost 300 test wickets. Sachin spent most of his days on nice flat tracks and is very selfish too. When was the last time he scored a ton?

    SA will put him in retirement on the SA tour. Like they did to ponting and Strauss

  • S.Jagernath on August 22, 2013, 16:58 GMT

    @Highveldhillbilly.Refer to this link www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/491636.html & you will find what I mean about Sobers dominating with bat & ball.He has taken 20 wickets in a series & scored 300 hundreds on 3 occasions.That is the most by any player in history.Jacques Kallis is yet to achieve this feat.

  • highveldhillbilly on August 22, 2013, 14:11 GMT

    @Harmony111 - is SRT now the standard. If you don't have his strike rate than you've under performed? Strange standard to use. Anyway to comment on this silly point, I'd be interested if someone could trawl through the stats to find out what the average scoring rate has been in ODI matches Kallis has played vs. scoring rates in ODI matches that SRT has played. My guess is that SRT has played in higher scoring matches thus partly explaining his higher strike rate.

  • Harmony111 on August 22, 2013, 13:51 GMT

    @Greatest_Game:

    1stly, before your comment@16:35 no one had replied to me. So what "many" are you talking about?

    2ndly, I got "limited ability to interpret statistical records"??? Well on the article ---"Kallis may have to decide on ODI future soon"--- it was YOU who gave wrong stats and I debunked them by giving the correct stats + stats that clearly proved my point about Kallis' mythical value in the ODI team. Interestingly, u did not comment on that article after I had rebutted you strongly there.

    3rdly, My Dear GG, "My Dear" is an endearing term all over the world. Many formal letters begin by saying Dear Mr/Ms X-Y-Z. So formally or informally, using My Dear is not something you should object to. In any case, are you now picking fallen straws cos you can't deal with my haystack of proper & valid comments about Kallis?

    4thly, if you can then pls rebut me HERE about my comments made on the article REFD ABOVE cos that one is closed now.

    @ALL: Pls have a look at that article.

  • Harmony111 on August 22, 2013, 13:33 GMT

    @Paul Argyle: Thanks for proving my point about Kallis The AR vs Kallis The Batsman/Bowler. You too have categorically stated that Kallis The AR would never have been selected purely as a Batsman or Bowler. As a pure of one kind, the selectors would have seen him as very limited. That was my point too. Thanks. :-p

    @Witty_Cricketer & highveldhillbilly: Pls don't give that excuse. SRT has played ODIs spread over 4 decades & his SR is 86+. Era can't be a valid excuse for Kalli's poor SR.

    @Grant King: Perhaps you did not notice that the article is about Kallis' ODI Career and my comment was about Kallis' value in the SA ODI team. Why are you talking about tests?

    @ফেক কোডার: SG was a maekshift opener, did astoundingly well there. If Kallis The Batsman is worthy as a Batsman alone then he ought to have done much better playing in his preferred slot.

    @2nd_Slip & S.Jagernath: Easy to avg 45 if you bat like Tests in ODIs when there are fewer or no slips & defensive bowling/field. :-)

  • highveldhillbilly on August 22, 2013, 13:11 GMT

    @ S.Jagernath - "...Sobers dominated series with the ball & bat...". Definitely with the bat but name one series he dominated with the ball? His strike rate was around 1 wicket per 80 balls. If he dominated with the ball that must have been one of the lowest scoring series in history.

  • S.Jagernath on August 22, 2013, 9:04 GMT

    @Harmony111.Playing many matches & averaging 45 with the bat says something.You may play huge amounts of cricket but the average will still give you some sort of idea of the quality of the player & an average of 45 just does not happen without some real consistency.

  • S.Jagernath on August 22, 2013, 8:59 GMT

    Atleast we will get to see Jacques Kallis get bounced out again.I have missed that!About comparing him to Garfield Sobers,Sobers was far more of a bowler & much more of a batsman.Sobers dominated series with the ball & bat.He has taken 20 wickets in a test series a few times & Kallis has never done that.Sobers averages higher,scores more runs per test & many regarded him as second to Bradman only around Sobers retirement.Kallis is still called a flat track bully by so many,so its worlds apart really.Kallis is as fine a cricketer as one could imagine still.Just not one for tough conditions.

  • on August 21, 2013, 23:39 GMT

    @Harmony111. I agree with all your critics and detractors with this particular blog in that some of your comments are just well.. absurd. To suggest that Kallis would only have played 80/90 ODIs as just a specialist batsman is frankly laughable!. The best batsman SA has ever produced and statistically one of the greatest of all time only making that number of appearances is equivalent to just 7/8 years international cricket..a very short career for someone of his immense (and respected) standing in the game?. His overall batting record in ODIs compares very favourably with that of others but no cricketer is judged in that way at the start of or just into a limited overs span? In actual fact his runs and average have been accumulated in appreciably LESS matches/innings than the guys around him. BTW knowing the type of guy Kallis is he would NEVER have said or ever will say/suggest that he would only play as a batsman or bowler?. No player (AR) would say that and expect to be selected!!

  • Greatest_Game on August 21, 2013, 18:23 GMT

    @ Xolile. Officially, D' Oliveira debuted at 35, but lied, fearing age discrimination, later admitting he was 37, thus playing until 43. His bowling record seems weak, Ave 39.55, SR 121.4, but in the record for Best Career Economy Rate, he is #25, & post war #14. Only 0.39 separates Dolly from all time #3/post war #1 - Trevor Goddard, the SA all-rounder whose career ended short at 39 with SA's isolation. (Numbers 1, 3 & 5 are all SA all-rounders!)

    Of the post war 14, five of the top 7 are all-rounders. India's brilliant all-time great Polly Umrigar is #7. #8 is Eng's Jim Laker - 1st to take 10 wickets in an inngs. He & SA's Tayfield, #12, are 2 of the 15 to take 9 in an inngs.

    These bowlers stifled the runs & pressured batsmen - usually a spinner's role, yet half were medium pacers & most played into their late 30s.

    Kallis' test Econ of 2.82 is only 0.14 greater than the best since his start date in '96. Like Dolly, he could play for 5+ years, in the same vital role.

  • Witty_Cricketer on August 21, 2013, 15:09 GMT

    @Harmony111, "Kallis The Batsman and Kallis The Bowler. On both counts, there are plenty of players who will displace Kallis for a spot in the team" really? Kallis the bowler may be, but definitely not Kallis the batsman, guy's average is 45 and though his strike rate is slightly below current ODI players, he has been playing since 1997 or something, so we need to look at it in a different context.

  • on August 21, 2013, 14:57 GMT

    I see some typical bitter supporters from the sub continent again, shame how sad

  • on August 21, 2013, 14:48 GMT

    Prabhakar Muthukrishnan, Harmony111 Kallis would make any world team of the last 140 years as a test batsman. If he was playing as a frontline bowler he would have opened the innings for a lot of teams. At nearly 38 he still gets it up to 140 with swing and seam. Just look at the ponting dismissal last year. He opened the innings once when our bowlers got injured and how many sticks did he get??? His average is not that good as he always bowls with the old ball and still average good enough to make other teams. He had to share his wickets with very good pace bowlers over the years. If he who average 56 got that from playing a lot of games then you don't understand this game. The man is consistent in scoring runs. Tendulkar played nearly 200 tests.....any ideas about his runs, stats or does your theory only count for Kallis.

  • AltafPatel on August 21, 2013, 14:21 GMT

    @ Justin Von Geusau Completely agree with your team. Still will be good to rotate Petersen or Van de Merve with Imran Tahir.

  • on August 21, 2013, 14:20 GMT

    If kallis can play world cup at 39 why not sewage and gambhir at 36 and 34.also rohit raina om big stage have been failures. .so far India need s viru and gauti for sure. I'll bet on them any day. They are big match players

  • Shazy777 on August 21, 2013, 14:09 GMT

    1.Smith, 2.Amla, 3.Kallis, 4.De villiers, 5.Duminy, 6. Miller, 7.Botha/Wiese/A.morkal , 8.Peterson, 9. Parnell, 10.steyn, 11. Morkel

  • on August 21, 2013, 13:36 GMT

    Sorry Prabhakar Muthukrishnan but you are deriding the SA team saying they have no flair and people don't want to watch them. I went to the SA vs Pakistan game (ICC trohpy) and even though 90% of the crowd where pakistan Amla still got more cheers during his innings than any of the pakistan team? And are you really saying that in the IPL when AB is smashing them to all parts people aren't entertained? Oh yeah for all the wonderwul talent of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and India they do not create the same buzz as Australia or England in SA so your point is?

    Also funny how SA has won the ICC trophy yet its never allowed to show they can win major trophies? and lastly wining major trophies has absolutely nothing to do with Flair its all bout playing better cricket on the day and that is where SA lose it they panick not play conservative - if anything they play stupid!

  • Harmony111 on August 21, 2013, 12:29 GMT

    I guess I touched some raw nerve of a few Kallis fans here. Sadly, most of them misunderstood me. I did not say anything about Kallis The AR, my comment was about Kallis The Batsman and Kallis The Bowler. On both counts, there are plenty of players who will displace Kallis for a spot in the team. My comment clearly said that SA have favd Kallis so much cos then they have an extra spot in the team. THAT helps SA more than any direct contribution from Kallis.

    Those who say Kallis played so many matches cos he was good enough are partially right. Kallis was good enough to play as an AR and that's why he got to play so many matches and once you get to play so many matches you are bound to score some runs and get wickets here and there. Had Kallis said in 90s that he will play only as a batsman or as a bowler, he won't have played more than 80-90 ODIs.

  • on August 21, 2013, 12:04 GMT

    Hi Keith Waters. Sri Lanka has won the world cup in 1996. SA , for all their talent has not. Period. I am not deriding the South African team in any way.They are perhaps the most hard working team of all. Their work ethics is evident from their discipline in bowling and batting. But somehow their brand of cricket is not attractive to watch. They don't have players who can fill up seats in stadiums outside of SA. A series against SA for example doesnt create the same kind of buzz say in India as a series against even a weaker Australia or Pakistan. For eg: 30,000 people will come and watch if someone like a VVS Laxman or a Lara or even Umar Akmal scores just 30 runs because it is exciting. But not even 30 will turn up if a Kallis or an Peterson were to score a 300.Finally for all of Jonty's skills, SA's still couldn't win any world cup ( even allowing for the fact that they were done in by the D/L method in 1992).

  • Jadejafan on August 21, 2013, 11:26 GMT

    Very good player but overrated.

  • AltafPatel on August 21, 2013, 11:02 GMT

    First thing to do to preserve Kallis is to keep him away from IPL and Champions League. 30 + 6 (approx) matches in 2 months too too much for 38...

  • on August 21, 2013, 10:55 GMT

    1.smith, 2.Amla, 3.Kallis, 4.De villiers, 5.Duminy, 6. Miller, 7. Peterson, 8.Van der merwe, 9. steyn, 10. tsosobe, 11. Morkel

  • on August 21, 2013, 9:44 GMT

    Hi Prabhakar Muthukrishnan surely making two finals and losing both is just as bad as not making them? for all the"flair" they still couldnt win. Now to say that players like Steyn, De Villiers, Amla, Duminny, Smith, from the new team or Rhodes, Gibbs, Donald, Klusener or Fannie, from yesteryear don't have flair is mind boggling? eg: When Rhodes burst on to the scene annihilating Inzaman's stumps no one had ever seen anything like it! surely thats the definition of flair?

    As for the Aura not sure what you mean they haven't lost a test series since 2008! thats impressive whichever way you want to spin it! doesn't matter if someone thought they could win results show they couldnt!

    Like any fine Art Kallis and this SA team won't be truley appreciated till they have gone.

  • Shazy777 on August 21, 2013, 9:39 GMT

    Kallis is a great all rounder i have ever seen & He plays a major role to bring back S.A the no.1 test team of the world... S.A needs Kallis more in Tests then odis... although he key player in odi as well... look at is avg in test & odis 56 & 45 in batting & 32 & 31 in bowling.... wow great records & no body can ever replace kallis... he is a complete batsman & Bowler...so if kallis wants to play in wc then he skip the ipl 2014 that help him to prepare fit for wc...

  • on August 21, 2013, 8:37 GMT

    Xolile I think Kallis may be used solely as a batsman to sturdy up the middle order for SA kinda of going back to the role he used to have when he first came into the side let Amla, De Villiers, Dummniy, Faf and Miller plunder runs while he accumulates. even forgetting his bowling he is a world class batter and if you used Dumminy, Mclaren and peterson as your all rounders then Kallis can just concentrate on Batting. Well thats what I'd do if I was coach

  • on August 21, 2013, 8:36 GMT

    A lot of talk goes on comparing Kallis with Sobers. While there is no denying Kallis' greatness, Sobers is in a different league of his own. His batting style was such that he could fill stadiums and change the complexion of a match within a few hours, something that Kallis has never done. Kallis style is effective though it does not make for exciting watching. Plus the loose limbed style of bowling and fielding for which Sobers was famous is unmatched. He was a graceful mover with fantastic hands. Even if he had taken up any other sport, he would have been a great in that too. Such was his athletic prowess. He is the Pele of cricket- the greatest that ever was.The greatness of players like Pele or Viv Richards can never measured by statistics.

  • on August 21, 2013, 8:30 GMT

    Hi Keith Waters.Agreed from 1999 to 2007 Aussies were the winners of the WC. But SA have not been even able to make it to the finals. What I mean by being conservative is lacking "flair". Take Sri Lanka's example. They have been able to win the WC once and be the finalists 2 times, apart from featuring in the T20 finals too. They have flair. Even though SA may have won their last 20 odd test series they don't have the aura of the Aussies or the earlier WI teams. This despite playing with two world class all rounders ( Pollock and Kallis) for a long time. While truth may be bitter, the fact is that most of their cricketers lack flair. They could not/have not captured the international spectators imagination like the Aussies or earlier WIs. Things though have been slowly changing with the coming in of the likes of Hashim Amla and Ab De Villiers.

  • BellCurve on August 21, 2013, 8:08 GMT

    Actually I have to correct myself. I found four examples for post-WWII fast bowlers making significnat contributions at Test level after the age of 38: Courtney Walsh, Richard Hadlee, Basil D'Oliveira and Geoff Chubb. Between them they took more than 100 wickets at an average of around 27. Not bad. There is hope for Kallis to contiue as a batting all-rounder for another 2-3 years.

  • BellCurve on August 21, 2013, 8:01 GMT

    Kallis' contribution to the SA ODI side over the past 18 years have been immense. However, as an allrounder, his days are numbered. There are plenty of examples of batsmen performing beyond the age of 38. But I have not been able to come up with one single example of a fast bowler making signficant contributions at Internatinal level beyond the age of 38 in the post-WWII era.

  • on August 21, 2013, 7:50 GMT

    I'm Sorry Prabhakar Muthukrishnan but you do realise that from 1999 to 2007 only 1 team won the World Cup Cricket? so how come only SA is branded as conservative? and have you not seen them in the last 20 odd test series they have lost only once that is pretty much domination and hardly conservative!

    As for Kallis not being a good one day batsman because his Strike Rate is only 73 guessing you class Michael Bevan as a very poor ODI batsman since his SR is on 74?

  • Greatest_Game on August 21, 2013, 7:09 GMT

    @ Ishqkaro. writes that "Jacques is just trying to catch up with the great Sachin. Sooner than later, he will realise that it was a pipe dream. Try something that you can actually achieve, man. Stop chasing mirages."

    Ishqkaro obviously does not now much about cricket. Kallis can bowl - I mean really bowl - not part time dibble doubly rubbish. Sachin can't bowl. Kallis is not chasing anything - he can already do what Sachin can't. If anyone is chasing pipe dreams, it is Sachin: playing as long as he can,desperately trying to hold onto his records even though he barely scores any runs anymore. Kallis & Sobers - the greatest cricketers ever. Sachin does not even feature

  • on August 21, 2013, 7:05 GMT

    bring back albie morkel soon for 2015 wc he is also crucial

  • on August 21, 2013, 5:33 GMT

    @Harmony111: He was allowed to play so many matches because he is good, a poor player can play so many odis. Ganguly also had an strike rate around 72-73, that doesnt mean he was a poor player. But i must say kallis is hundred times better in tests.

  • TommytuckerSaffa on August 21, 2013, 5:27 GMT

    Can someone please look into immediately trying to clone Kallis. Thanks.

  • highveldhillbilly on August 21, 2013, 5:19 GMT

    @Harmony111 - that's one of the silliest things I have ever read. A record looks good only because you've played a lot of matches? Insane - a good record over an exceptionally long period shows consistency! He's been playing since around 1996. Back then a score of 220 to 250 was generally good enough to win the game. Also his role in the team as always been to anchor the innings and let individuals bat around him. Your understanding of cricket is some what limited in my opinion.

  • on August 21, 2013, 5:07 GMT

    SA despite having a string of genuine all rounders like Brian McMillan, Shaun Pollock and Kallis could never do well in world cups. In fact, Pollock and Kallis played together for a very long time. Yet they could not do well in world cups. With two world class all rounders any other team would have gone on to dominate test cricket too. This did not happen in the case of SA. The reason is their conservative style of play. They always seem to be lost if their plan A fails. They need more of the adventurous types ala Ab De Villiers. They need to play more imaginative brand of cricket.

  • Ishqkaro on August 21, 2013, 1:43 GMT

    Sachin plays for the love of cricket. Jacques is just trying to catch up with the great Sachin. Sooner than later, he will realise that it was a pipe dream - just as Ponting did. Try something that you can actually achieve, man. Stop chasing mirages.

  • Liquefierrrr on August 21, 2013, 1:41 GMT

    @TommytuckerSaffa - Donald Bradman is, unarguably the best sportsman of all time, let alone cricketer. His statistics stand so far beyond any other sportsperson, compared to their peers, that this will never be reasonably argued. E.g. Tiger Woods would have to go around in 43 to be as 'beyond' peers as Bradman.

    Kallis is fantastic. I have so much respect for him as a player. He has wonderful stats with bat and ball in all 3 formats, be that domestically or internationally.

    That said, Gary Sobers has very similar test stats to Kallis, and if we look at him as a batsman only (as a bowling average of 32 is, on its own, fairly average) we have Tendulkar & Sangakarra with similar stats, showing that he isn't peerless in his own generation (as a batsman), nor as an all-time all-rounder.

    This isn't a slight on Kallis. Mentioning him alongside Tendulkar & Sobers would sit very well with him. But Bradman is the best sportsperson ever, so is definitely the best cricketer. Enough said.

  • proteasfire on August 20, 2013, 23:41 GMT

    This is great news for South Africa especially in the aftermath of recent struggle in Champions Trophy and Sri Lanka. Definitely this will boost SA's chances of regaining its position as a formidable one day side. With JP and Miller shaping well from SL series a batting unit comprising Smith, Amla, Kallis, AB, JP and Miller will be very competitive in ODIs. Domingo is making every move correctly so far. Also Kallis' comeback gives more balance to the team and gives advantage of that extra batsman option. With both JP and Kallis bowling SA will have plenty of options to go with in bowling department as well. If Smith returns and SA selectors decide to bring him back as captain SA will have lot of stability in ODIs and will be proceeding in right direction for WC 2015. Go Proteas Go!!

  • on August 20, 2013, 21:09 GMT

    He is bigger and better than Sobers, I don't know why he is not touted by ICC or any media spokesman. Kallis is a better Test batsman than Sachin and I must say he can break his record of most hundreds in Test. SA played only 3 games this year. They should play more test cricket.

  • Capricorn60 on August 20, 2013, 20:53 GMT

    Kallis as well as Shane Watson of Australia are those of a dying breed of seam-bowling allrounders - the likes of which are now rare to see simply due to the heavy workload faced by players these days in playing all forms of cricket. Such players face more risk of injury & a premature end to their careers as happened to Andrew Flintoff of England. Maybe all this is catching up with Kallis too in view of his recent injuries suffered & bearing the fact that he is going to be around 40 at the 2015 WC, difficult decisions will have to be made in cutting down on his cricket played till then by opting out of certain unimportant bilateral series, the IPL and maybe some Test matches too. This has to be collectively agreed between Kallis, the new national coach & CSA & has to happen if he still is going to be considered to be a very important player for them at this 2015 WC.

  • Doolman on August 20, 2013, 19:56 GMT

    Who is the next kallis in SA team?

  • hunain94 on August 20, 2013, 19:23 GMT

    i think the combination should be like this 1)smith 2)amla 3)du plessis 4)kallis 5)devilliers 6)duminny 7)miller 8)mc laren / peterson /tsotsobe 9)morkel 10)steyn 11)tahir.............with de cock, behardien, morris, ingram, parnell potential subs ..

  • on August 20, 2013, 19:09 GMT

    thats gr8 news n no one will replace kallis ...kallis we need Wc :'( plz do it for saf n for us :/

  • 2nd_Slip on August 20, 2013, 18:45 GMT

    @Narayanan Mahalingam you really cant replace a player of Kalli's calibre mate. It is not about bench strength, a player like him comes once every 3 decades!!! @ Harmony111 though I partly agree with you that SA are probably better off without him in building for life after he retires even in the test squad but I rather SA learn from Aus mistakes of obsessing with pre-Madonna youngsters and forcing good experienced cricketers to retire i.e. Katich and Hussey."His record in ODIs looks impressive ONLY cos he has played too many matches"- well you kinda sound ridiculous there mate, so I guess in your case Tendulkar has good stats cos he has been around forever???!!!

  • on August 20, 2013, 18:15 GMT

    If someone thinks Kallis, I mean Kallis is not the best package we have seen and he has scored so much just because he has played a lot, then I want to add, Sachin has not done anything exceptional, because he has played like 450 plus matches.

    KALLIS is a high class batsman and a bowler, in batting very very few can come close to him.

  • on August 20, 2013, 18:14 GMT

    @harmony111 u say kallis has such records b'coz he has played so many matches ? if a player is not that gr8 he's not given chance to play so many matches..n i guess average n conversion rate decides class n talent of a player n not strike rate...if u wanna see gud strike rates watch t20's only.. n just suppose a bowler takes 4 wicket in 3 overs but goes for 24(in every match) according to u he's not a gr8 bowler coz his economy is 8..-_- n d records of his wickets is coz he has played too many matches...? kallis is a true class..:)

  • Shazy777 on August 20, 2013, 18:09 GMT

    I agree with Harmony111 that kallis would skip ipl rather than CT.... Kallis is the best player & He will play a vital role in CT if he played... Bcz G.smith also miss the CT due to injury so kallis in that stage male a poor decision... If you look at 2015 wc then i tnink Kallis presence makes difficiult to win wc.... if kallis play then ab or jp movesat 4 & 5 slot... they can better perform at 3 & 4... David Miller is a match winner how can he win the match at no 8... he is pure batsman not an allrounder.... if kallis not play then at no 8 we can use Albie morkal or david Wiese they are good striker with the bat & handy will the ball as well... So guys commint on my thinking...!!!

  • dariuscorny on August 20, 2013, 17:55 GMT

    bad news for South Africa ,Kallis to play WC....overrated the appropriate word

  • on August 20, 2013, 17:31 GMT

    If Kallis is planning to play WC 2015, he needs enough rest before WC. He doesnt need to prove his place in the team, he can always bowl 5-6 overs & best batsman at 3 or 4. Looking at the batting form of SA team they definitely need services of kallis & smith in ODI

  • kevepere on August 20, 2013, 16:47 GMT

    Adding Kallis makes the SA or any lineup much stronger ! A great batsman hardly makes mistakes. He can be a very very good bowler. Therefore now SA could be confident. But the only thing they need to figure out is a quality spinner. Or find a mystery spinner during the WC. Good luck SA

  • on August 20, 2013, 16:36 GMT

    This is excellent news not just for South African but international cricket too. For me there is no better sight/spectacle in the world game than watching a fit and motivated Kallis at the top of his game. His place & standing in it has already been well documented on this site and these pages but statistically his record speaks for itself. It is without equal because he is simply the finest all rounder currently playing the game and if he gets into and maintains form in admittedly the twilight of his career he has to go down and finally be recognised as one of the greatest cricketers of all time. As far as his suitability for and justification in being considered for the Test, ODI, and T/20 squads the real and true benchmark for his status as THE all rounder is if he were not to be considered as an out & out specialist in one facet of the game would he make a starting XI in the other?. The current answer to that is undoubtedly YES everytime until he calls time!!!

  • Greatest_Game on August 20, 2013, 16:35 GMT

    @ Harmony111. You have been beating this drum for years. You beat it at every possible opportunity. All know well your views on Kallis. Fragments of media exposure & a limited ability to interpret statistical records do not make you a Kallis expert. (Posting more of the same will not help!) As many here have repeatedly said, your 'opinions' are thinly disguised hostility to the man. They have nothing to do with cricket.

    The judgment of Haroon Lorgat, CSA & former ICC CEO, SA selectors, coaching staff & players, is that Kallis remains invaluable to SA's ODI team. Domingo WANTS Kallis to play. A very well credentialed 14-year professional coach, he is VERY astute: he identified Kirsten's potential, & gave him his 1st coaching job! Domingo, who chose & trained India's most successful coach ever, KNOWS why he wants Kallis. His reasons are reality based, not armchair notions.

    Finally: in my culture, addressing me as "My Dear" is disrespectful & demeaning. Respectfully, please stop.

  • LankaGod on August 20, 2013, 15:59 GMT

    We are fortunate to have seen the likes of Kallis, Mahela, Sangakarra, Sachin, Dravid, Ponting in the same generation followed by the likes of Amla, Cook, Clarke and the likes.

  • on August 20, 2013, 14:55 GMT

    It is admission by SA that there is not enough quality in the bench to replace a player of Kallis' calibre in the ODI format. Given SA's struggles in the ODI format of late, Kallis would add the balance they desperately need. But one is not sure whether Kallis would help SA lift the ICC silverware they are desperately looking for. A player of Kallis's class needs to have the WC medal.

  • TommytuckerSaffa on August 20, 2013, 13:59 GMT

    The greatest cricketer to ever live. Enough said.

  • on August 20, 2013, 13:45 GMT

    yesssss lets bring glory to South Africa this time!!

  • Harmony111 on August 20, 2013, 13:28 GMT

    SA would be better off if Kallis doesn't play in WC2015. Kallis is by no means an exceptional ODI batsman or bowler. His record in ODIs looks impressive ONLY cos he has played too many matches. If you play so many matches you are bound to score some runs or pick some wickets. The only advantage Kallis brings to his team is in freeing up one spot to play an extra batsman or bowler as the case may be. It is this extra player who has mostly helped SA in being a top ODI side over the years. Kallis has not played too significant and direct a role in that. Everything I say here is based on stats and not on my bias. Anyone whose SR in ODIs is ~72 has to be a pretty poor batsman. Kallis plays at the top and eats so many balls and this really impedes SA on most occasions.

    SA should rather look for guys who are better batsman/bowler than Kallis, that will help them a lot more.

    If Kallis really had any commitment towards CSA then he would have skipped IPL12 rather than CT13.

  • bravetigersmustwin on August 20, 2013, 13:11 GMT

    Wow! Thats a good news for cricket lovers. Yes without him the SA team looks very less competitive, especially in sub continent. Had he played SA tour to SL, the results would have been much different. Some are bowling all-rounders, some are batting all-rounders and few fielding all-rounders. This man is all-rounder allrounder. He is still more fit than asian cricket players :)

  • on August 20, 2013, 13:03 GMT

    Now watch out for this ODI Combination 1) Graeme Smith 2) Hashim Amla 3) Jacques Kallis 4) Ab De Villiers 5) JP Duminy 6) Francois Du Plessis 7) David Miller 8) Robin Peterson / Ryan Mc Laren ( Depending On Conditions ) 9) Dale Steyn 10 Morne Morkel 11) Imran Tahir

    If Robbie P. plays SA will have 9 Genuine Batters with 3 Good Spinners and 3 Best Pacers And If Ryan Mc Laren plays SA will again have 9 Genuine Batters with 2 Good Spiners and 4 Pacers

  • CricketChat on August 20, 2013, 12:57 GMT

    As great an all rounder as Kallis is, I feel he is unwilling to realize and admit that his body will be unable to cope up with more cricket in the next 2 yrs. He clearly looked short of stamina while bowling and running in this year's IPL. I don't think he bowls 10 overs at full tilt. Like Sachin, he also wants to play as long as possible. SA board would be wise make full fledged backup plans for 2015 WC.

  • CricketChat on August 20, 2013, 12:57 GMT

    As great an all rounder as Kallis is, I feel he is unwilling to realize and admit that his body will be unable to cope up with more cricket in the next 2 yrs. He clearly looked short of stamina while bowling and running in this year's IPL. I don't think he bowls 10 overs at full tilt. Like Sachin, he also wants to play as long as possible. SA board would be wise make full fledged backup plans for 2015 WC.

  • on August 20, 2013, 13:03 GMT

    Now watch out for this ODI Combination 1) Graeme Smith 2) Hashim Amla 3) Jacques Kallis 4) Ab De Villiers 5) JP Duminy 6) Francois Du Plessis 7) David Miller 8) Robin Peterson / Ryan Mc Laren ( Depending On Conditions ) 9) Dale Steyn 10 Morne Morkel 11) Imran Tahir

    If Robbie P. plays SA will have 9 Genuine Batters with 3 Good Spinners and 3 Best Pacers And If Ryan Mc Laren plays SA will again have 9 Genuine Batters with 2 Good Spiners and 4 Pacers

  • bravetigersmustwin on August 20, 2013, 13:11 GMT

    Wow! Thats a good news for cricket lovers. Yes without him the SA team looks very less competitive, especially in sub continent. Had he played SA tour to SL, the results would have been much different. Some are bowling all-rounders, some are batting all-rounders and few fielding all-rounders. This man is all-rounder allrounder. He is still more fit than asian cricket players :)

  • Harmony111 on August 20, 2013, 13:28 GMT

    SA would be better off if Kallis doesn't play in WC2015. Kallis is by no means an exceptional ODI batsman or bowler. His record in ODIs looks impressive ONLY cos he has played too many matches. If you play so many matches you are bound to score some runs or pick some wickets. The only advantage Kallis brings to his team is in freeing up one spot to play an extra batsman or bowler as the case may be. It is this extra player who has mostly helped SA in being a top ODI side over the years. Kallis has not played too significant and direct a role in that. Everything I say here is based on stats and not on my bias. Anyone whose SR in ODIs is ~72 has to be a pretty poor batsman. Kallis plays at the top and eats so many balls and this really impedes SA on most occasions.

    SA should rather look for guys who are better batsman/bowler than Kallis, that will help them a lot more.

    If Kallis really had any commitment towards CSA then he would have skipped IPL12 rather than CT13.

  • on August 20, 2013, 13:45 GMT

    yesssss lets bring glory to South Africa this time!!

  • TommytuckerSaffa on August 20, 2013, 13:59 GMT

    The greatest cricketer to ever live. Enough said.

  • on August 20, 2013, 14:55 GMT

    It is admission by SA that there is not enough quality in the bench to replace a player of Kallis' calibre in the ODI format. Given SA's struggles in the ODI format of late, Kallis would add the balance they desperately need. But one is not sure whether Kallis would help SA lift the ICC silverware they are desperately looking for. A player of Kallis's class needs to have the WC medal.

  • LankaGod on August 20, 2013, 15:59 GMT

    We are fortunate to have seen the likes of Kallis, Mahela, Sangakarra, Sachin, Dravid, Ponting in the same generation followed by the likes of Amla, Cook, Clarke and the likes.

  • Greatest_Game on August 20, 2013, 16:35 GMT

    @ Harmony111. You have been beating this drum for years. You beat it at every possible opportunity. All know well your views on Kallis. Fragments of media exposure & a limited ability to interpret statistical records do not make you a Kallis expert. (Posting more of the same will not help!) As many here have repeatedly said, your 'opinions' are thinly disguised hostility to the man. They have nothing to do with cricket.

    The judgment of Haroon Lorgat, CSA & former ICC CEO, SA selectors, coaching staff & players, is that Kallis remains invaluable to SA's ODI team. Domingo WANTS Kallis to play. A very well credentialed 14-year professional coach, he is VERY astute: he identified Kirsten's potential, & gave him his 1st coaching job! Domingo, who chose & trained India's most successful coach ever, KNOWS why he wants Kallis. His reasons are reality based, not armchair notions.

    Finally: in my culture, addressing me as "My Dear" is disrespectful & demeaning. Respectfully, please stop.

  • on August 20, 2013, 16:36 GMT

    This is excellent news not just for South African but international cricket too. For me there is no better sight/spectacle in the world game than watching a fit and motivated Kallis at the top of his game. His place & standing in it has already been well documented on this site and these pages but statistically his record speaks for itself. It is without equal because he is simply the finest all rounder currently playing the game and if he gets into and maintains form in admittedly the twilight of his career he has to go down and finally be recognised as one of the greatest cricketers of all time. As far as his suitability for and justification in being considered for the Test, ODI, and T/20 squads the real and true benchmark for his status as THE all rounder is if he were not to be considered as an out & out specialist in one facet of the game would he make a starting XI in the other?. The current answer to that is undoubtedly YES everytime until he calls time!!!