Politics March 5, 2008

ICL, IPL, what the hell?

However you look at it, these pantomimes are doing little more than milking the cash cow of cricket's popularity in India
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Consider me a Luddite but I'm getting rather fed up with this proliferation of cricket leagues. ICL, IPL, what the hell? However you look at it, these pantomimes are doing little more than milking the cash cow of cricket's popularity in India.

At some point, probably not too dissimilar to the point in last year's World Cup when most people stopped caring less, people in India--yes even India--will stop caring less. The advertisers, promoters, sponsors, and deal fixers will have to dream up a new concept. In fact, I've stopped caring less about these tournaments already, except for a mild curiosity about the prospects of the band of Pakistani rejects, better known as the Lahore Badshahs.

We should care, of course, because other than the glaring error of a stupid greed-inspired excess of cricket, there is a sinister element to this drama that we mustn't stop complaining about.

The obscene spectacle of cricket boards dictating to players about which league they can or cannot participate in has rightly been identified as an unfair restriction of trade. Why should cricket boards order you to play in IPL but punish you for choosing ICL? Why should a cricket board ban you from playing domestic cricket in your own country or any other country if you decided to trot out for the ICL?

The Pakistan Cricket Board, for example, has developed a myopic approach that seeks to prevent its cricketers from gaining experience in any domestic tournament other than its own miserable leagues and the fatuous IPL.

The cartel created by the cricket boards is an abuse of power. The arguments used to favour IPL and restrict cricketers if they disobey are simply the demoralising gestures of arrogant bullies. But you can't expect the ICC to help cricket boards see the light since cricket's governing body has such a restrictive attitude towards its own events, right down to dictating which brand of God's own water spectators are allowed to consume.

Indeed, this preference for the "official" IPL is a complete contradiction to the league's commercial aspirations. A true market perspective would allow both leagues to compete and allow the winner to be judged by the public. Instead, we have the dismal sight of the world's cricket boards justifying, enforcing, and licking their lips over the IPL monopoly while they condemn ICL as unnecessary, threatening, and illegal.

I am a big fan of Twenty20 cricket. I greatly enjoy the spectacle of cricket in India. But not like this. World Series Cricket propelled international cricketers towards professional salaries and rightly gave them some clout. This year's two-league circus is an exercise in corporate clout and shameless money-grabbing.

It is far too easy to wax lyrical about the noble spirit of cricket but the ICL/IPL fiasco is bringing out the worst in our modern game.

Kamran Abbasi is an editor, writer and broadcaster. He tweets here

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • Trudy on December 23, 2011, 6:03 GMT

    I don't even know what to say, this made thnigs so much easier!

  • Asim Akhtar on November 16, 2008, 6:22 GMT

    What is the benifit for the players playing ICL OR IPL

  • Jas Singh on March 14, 2008, 8:56 GMT

    Kammran you said 'I greatly enjoy the spectacle of cricket in India' is this when Pakistan are playing there and doing well? It must be because you have NEVER had a good word to say about India or Indian cricket. So for you to comment on something that you cannot change or have any influence on except maybe by encouraging your fellow 'Pakistanis' to not watch the IPL/ICL is a waste of time.

    IPL/ICL are here to stay and creating a Packer stlye league with the best players around can only be good for the game. Players learn from each other and I expect the fielding standards for one to be improved in India, not to mention fitness standards in general.

    In answer to Philip John Joseph - Ambani may not be worth 20 Billion dollars but Mittal is worth 22 Billion according to Forbes. You need to buy yourself a proper surname before you comment on the success, or otherwise, of India.

    IPL etc. is not only being financed and watched by Indians in India but by Indians abroad as well.

  • Nilanjon on March 14, 2008, 2:15 GMT

    Javedbhai I am happy that you care about the 350 million poor Indians. But once again wrry about the Pakistani poor first, at the very least the Indian gov. is doing something for its poor. Quit bashing the ICL and IPL, they are much better than the domestic garbage that Pakistan, India, and a bunch of other countries have. It may turn out for the better, so give it a chance.

    Philip John Joseph Why do you insist on being high and mighty on this blog? All I read from your posts are bland attacks on people writing on this board. Just how educated are you? The way you disregard everyone as "a very bad on" on any matter, it seems that you have a PhD. on all of these subjects. LEARN BASIC MANNERS, RESPECT PEOPLE AND THEY WILL RESPECT YOU. For example, if you look at American criticism, there are people with varied views BUT don't see them trying to lower any persons credential. They just argue their points. SO argue your points and get it over with.

  • shazia on March 13, 2008, 20:15 GMT

    for me IPL and ICL are same. Cricket fans want to watch cricket, most of fans don't care what is the official status of this tournament. However, ICL is providing good watchable fun to us as we saw matches till now and saw the very interesting match between Lahore and Chennai and today its fun to watch azhar mehmood 5 wicket haul and imran nazir cracking innings.

  • Arpan on March 13, 2008, 19:15 GMT

    Hi Kamran. First thing first, I love your articles. Good job and keep it up. However, I am disappointed with your comments for ICL team calling them "Pakistani rejects, better known as the Lahore Badshahs." After all they are only trying to ear food for their families before the end of their career.

    Also I never understood why people are so against IPL and ICL. Every new concept is met with resistance. This is no different. All these leagues will do is bring in better infrastructure, revenue, better pay, and decent career to kids who might now make it to the final 12 in national team. Whats wrong with that? If nothing else then at least think about the job opportunities it will bring to people other than the cricket players...such as coaches, physio, marketers, accountant, finance, tourism etc. There are lots of indirect benefits and jobs created by both IPL and ICL.

    The concept of teams owned by private entity is not new. Just look at NBA, MLB, and NFL in USA. Give chance.

  • sai on March 13, 2008, 14:21 GMT

    Hey Guys I am riting for the first time. I loved the article for it had a different and objective perspective. However, I am sorry to say that some of the responses have not looked at the spirit of the talk, rather have taken discussions to a different tangent. We can get personal and let focus away from the issue mentioned, or like mature and logical individuals debate on issues rather than personalities. I am not going to respond to someone who makes a scathing remark at me after this. So, please continue with ur inputs on the subject and do not degrade each other and passionate cricket playing countries.

  • Elrond on March 12, 2008, 13:46 GMT

    Javed, Did you mean 'lose', 'loser' when you actually said 'loose', or 'looser' in your comments?

  • Awais Misri on March 12, 2008, 13:11 GMT

    the only problem i have with the IPL is that it will turn indian cricket into maybe the best in the world. with u-19 boys being drafted in, and cricket becoming a viable career option for even those that dnt make it to the national team, india will see a massive increase in its talent pool, whereas as at the same time due to monkey musharaf's policies, Pakistan suffers in every way imaginable. and wit the hon. dr nasim as head of pcb, things don't look too good. and kudos to the indians for coming up wit such an awesome money spinner. the indians watched the pcb, ecb and the saffies arrange domestic 20-20s wit success, and just look at the manner in which they came up with their version. the bcci must be saying "let us show you how to spin some REAL money"

  • Ahsan Mustafa on March 12, 2008, 11:51 GMT

    I wonder if someone took note that ICL has been pushed off the front page of cricinfo. I wonder again on how much influence these cricket boards have on this website.

  • Trudy on December 23, 2011, 6:03 GMT

    I don't even know what to say, this made thnigs so much easier!

  • Asim Akhtar on November 16, 2008, 6:22 GMT

    What is the benifit for the players playing ICL OR IPL

  • Jas Singh on March 14, 2008, 8:56 GMT

    Kammran you said 'I greatly enjoy the spectacle of cricket in India' is this when Pakistan are playing there and doing well? It must be because you have NEVER had a good word to say about India or Indian cricket. So for you to comment on something that you cannot change or have any influence on except maybe by encouraging your fellow 'Pakistanis' to not watch the IPL/ICL is a waste of time.

    IPL/ICL are here to stay and creating a Packer stlye league with the best players around can only be good for the game. Players learn from each other and I expect the fielding standards for one to be improved in India, not to mention fitness standards in general.

    In answer to Philip John Joseph - Ambani may not be worth 20 Billion dollars but Mittal is worth 22 Billion according to Forbes. You need to buy yourself a proper surname before you comment on the success, or otherwise, of India.

    IPL etc. is not only being financed and watched by Indians in India but by Indians abroad as well.

  • Nilanjon on March 14, 2008, 2:15 GMT

    Javedbhai I am happy that you care about the 350 million poor Indians. But once again wrry about the Pakistani poor first, at the very least the Indian gov. is doing something for its poor. Quit bashing the ICL and IPL, they are much better than the domestic garbage that Pakistan, India, and a bunch of other countries have. It may turn out for the better, so give it a chance.

    Philip John Joseph Why do you insist on being high and mighty on this blog? All I read from your posts are bland attacks on people writing on this board. Just how educated are you? The way you disregard everyone as "a very bad on" on any matter, it seems that you have a PhD. on all of these subjects. LEARN BASIC MANNERS, RESPECT PEOPLE AND THEY WILL RESPECT YOU. For example, if you look at American criticism, there are people with varied views BUT don't see them trying to lower any persons credential. They just argue their points. SO argue your points and get it over with.

  • shazia on March 13, 2008, 20:15 GMT

    for me IPL and ICL are same. Cricket fans want to watch cricket, most of fans don't care what is the official status of this tournament. However, ICL is providing good watchable fun to us as we saw matches till now and saw the very interesting match between Lahore and Chennai and today its fun to watch azhar mehmood 5 wicket haul and imran nazir cracking innings.

  • Arpan on March 13, 2008, 19:15 GMT

    Hi Kamran. First thing first, I love your articles. Good job and keep it up. However, I am disappointed with your comments for ICL team calling them "Pakistani rejects, better known as the Lahore Badshahs." After all they are only trying to ear food for their families before the end of their career.

    Also I never understood why people are so against IPL and ICL. Every new concept is met with resistance. This is no different. All these leagues will do is bring in better infrastructure, revenue, better pay, and decent career to kids who might now make it to the final 12 in national team. Whats wrong with that? If nothing else then at least think about the job opportunities it will bring to people other than the cricket players...such as coaches, physio, marketers, accountant, finance, tourism etc. There are lots of indirect benefits and jobs created by both IPL and ICL.

    The concept of teams owned by private entity is not new. Just look at NBA, MLB, and NFL in USA. Give chance.

  • sai on March 13, 2008, 14:21 GMT

    Hey Guys I am riting for the first time. I loved the article for it had a different and objective perspective. However, I am sorry to say that some of the responses have not looked at the spirit of the talk, rather have taken discussions to a different tangent. We can get personal and let focus away from the issue mentioned, or like mature and logical individuals debate on issues rather than personalities. I am not going to respond to someone who makes a scathing remark at me after this. So, please continue with ur inputs on the subject and do not degrade each other and passionate cricket playing countries.

  • Elrond on March 12, 2008, 13:46 GMT

    Javed, Did you mean 'lose', 'loser' when you actually said 'loose', or 'looser' in your comments?

  • Awais Misri on March 12, 2008, 13:11 GMT

    the only problem i have with the IPL is that it will turn indian cricket into maybe the best in the world. with u-19 boys being drafted in, and cricket becoming a viable career option for even those that dnt make it to the national team, india will see a massive increase in its talent pool, whereas as at the same time due to monkey musharaf's policies, Pakistan suffers in every way imaginable. and wit the hon. dr nasim as head of pcb, things don't look too good. and kudos to the indians for coming up wit such an awesome money spinner. the indians watched the pcb, ecb and the saffies arrange domestic 20-20s wit success, and just look at the manner in which they came up with their version. the bcci must be saying "let us show you how to spin some REAL money"

  • Ahsan Mustafa on March 12, 2008, 11:51 GMT

    I wonder if someone took note that ICL has been pushed off the front page of cricinfo. I wonder again on how much influence these cricket boards have on this website.

  • Raj, Toronto on March 12, 2008, 7:26 GMT

    In response to the comments made by "Philip John Joseph". The average NBA Salary maybe about 2 million USD and Dhoni is making about 1.5 million USD, but you forgot one thing. Dhoni will make this amount in about 2 months, not over the course of one full season. Add the salary that he would make playing for BCCI and you will get to know how much he actually makes in one full season of cricket. This however does not mention how much he makes through endorsements etc. Also, I think it a little suspicous that you keep mentioning "us Indians". Are you really Indian? Your attitude and negative comments about India and Indians suggest otherwise. Other than these useles facts, you made no mention of the game of Cricket. Any comments?

  • Viswanadh, INDIA on March 11, 2008, 17:49 GMT

    I agree with you. Monopoly doesn't help the game most of the times. And imposing restrictions on joining private leagues is very immature, and it shows the fear in BCCI camps. Would they (BCCI) ban gully cricket too? Competition is always good for the game.

  • Partha on March 11, 2008, 17:17 GMT

    It's quite funny how the BCCI is being criticized for holding all the power in the game. Money talks, period. That's what the Australian and English boards did for ages. That Aus has declined to tour Pak is testament to that fact. Had the Pak board been as powerful as the Indian board, do you think Aus would have had the guts to refuse to tour? The Pak board hasn't done enough to capitalize on the cricket craze in Pak. It's time Indians stopped being apologetic about BCCI making money. Capitalist nations like Aus talking about arm twisting is a joke.

  • luvwithkarm on March 11, 2008, 17:05 GMT

    Pakistani's we need india's support to succeed both in cricket and economically. We should support BCCI and IPL everytime because bcc has come to our rescue financially by arranging unscheduled pakistani tours previously. Supporting BCCI is good for pakistan and pakistan cricket and it's the only way to keep pakistani cricket healthy. Pakistani's should support india in every walk of life unless it's a kashmir issue which should be left to one's own conscience. I have people like kamran abbasi and javed khan from montreal who left pakistan to make more money but these same guys are blaming ICL and IPL for going after money. What else i can say bunch of hypocrites!

  • rahat on March 11, 2008, 16:19 GMT

    I agree with most of it. I don't think anyone can foretell what the future holds for Test, ODI or even T20Is due to the ICL/IPL drama. However, I think one thing we know for sure is a player's integrity is going to be questioned, for making a natural and more logical choice regarding their career and life. A million for 2 months or barely quarter of that for the whole year? Yeah very tough decision!!! I love the fact that the cricketers are making more money. They should, as despite putting in more hard yards for longer periods (and not to mention always being away from family) than the NBA/MLB/NFL cricketers are paid peanuts. It's about time that they get the opportunity. The stupid war between ICL and IPL is ridiculous and I think both leagues should be given a chance to flourish and see what comes of them in the long run. I think T20 is a good format and these leagues are great for cricketers. I have never been a fan of ODI, so I'd hope only Tests and T20Is survive in the long run.

  • Raj, Toronto on March 11, 2008, 15:35 GMT

    In response to the comments made by "Philip John Joseph". The average NBA Salary maybe about 2 million USD and Dhoni is making about 1.5 million USD, but you forgot one thing. Dhoni will make this amount in about 2 months, not over the course of one full season. Add the salary that he would make playing for BCCI and you will get to know how much he actually makes in one full season of cricket. This however does not mention how much he makes through endorsements etc. Also, I think it a little suspicous that you keep mentioning "us Indians". Are you really Indian? Your attitude and negative comments about India and Indians suggest otherwise. Other than these useles facts, you made no mention of the game of Cricket. Any comments?

  • Karan on March 11, 2008, 10:17 GMT

    News filtering in on the second auction of players, Misbah is in Banglore! They needed some big hitter with Rahul, Kallis, Chandrapaul, I dont know if Misbah is the answer. Kolkatta is looking like mini Pakistan team now they have bought Hafeez & Salman Butt with Shoaib & Umar gul. I am so glad to see that the world cup winning under 19 team has also got its due. I am sure sharing dressing room with greats like sachin, ponting, lee, mcgrath etc will be great for them. What the F*** is mumbai team doing, they have not bought any players so far when they are easily the most reputed franchise ! Even the English cricketers have come after the money with their county sides giving them clearance.

  • Rajendra Khanna on March 11, 2008, 8:43 GMT

    So finally Australia have decided not to tour Pakistan. Wise decision. Never a good idea to tour places security is in danger. However ek kahawat hai "Der aye durust aye" which means it was a late decsion but a wise one neverthless.

  • Karan on March 11, 2008, 6:42 GMT

    I will start with a few things I want to see in these leagues to make them better in future : 1. There should be more teams about 10 so that we can see all the players in action and have a larger base 2. The matches should be held on Home and away basis (they already have that). 3. They should try out some of the changes in rules (nothing drastic) which they have been thinking of. Like use of better technology and ensure correct decision. 4. They must have a competition with the winner of ICL & IPL. 5. Each franchise should have their own academy for blooding fresh talent. They should appoint people to spot raw talent accross the world and get them to their academies. 6. In future they should plan to play in venues outside of India. Asian countries being closer and more passionate are the easier ones to branch out. 7. Stadiums, infrastructure, telecast etc should be of the best quality possible.

  • Karan on March 11, 2008, 6:30 GMT

    As we debate this, I am reading that the next auction will take place soon with 25 players and a lot of them are from Pakistan - Salman Butt, Sohail Tanveer etc. There are more aussies, New Zealanders and Srilankans. I think they should have more teams now and not only 8. I have a lot of respect for Indian corporates and feel that these will be no lack of professionalism and Reliance, Kingfisher, DLF, GMR, Wadia etc will not put their money to waste and they will also give back to the game. Subhash chandra will have to work very hard since he has no ICC support but eventually even he will succeed. Just let a period of 2-3 years pass and you will see how well IPL/ICL will emerge. I feel this is the future and we should not fight or resist it. We should contribute towards it, it would have been better if we would have come out with suggestions to improve or even constructive criticism. What all would we like to see in a perfect cricket league ? How can we make it better. Any Ideas ?

  • Jack on March 11, 2008, 2:56 GMT

    Philip John Joseph It is quite clear that not only are you clueless you are also quite delusional. Alas for you living in your fantasy world doesn't change facts. My numbers were not from stupid media outlets. But hey whats the point. You at least got the "dream on" part right. Having read your numerous rants on this blog it just seems that it would be a waste of time and a huge insult to myself to get into any sort of meaningful debate with someone like you. This is my last post to you. All I can say is do your research kid. Obviously you don't have an iota of knowledge nor any comprehension capabilities to debate with humans. Cheers!

  • Satyajit on March 10, 2008, 14:27 GMT

    I am disappointed with Kamran Abbasi, I used to think him as an articulate and balanced writer. However, this blog is completely one sided. While I do not have much love lost for BCCI, IPL may not be such a bad thing if well managed. It should remain 45 day curnival in a year so that it doesn't jeopardise the International calendar. Cricket lovers want the serious cricket while cricketers need the money. If well managed, both can be achieved. On the subject of fellow Paki fans giving their views and making personal attacks; folks, apart from the views you have, it also matters who is speaking. If it was Richie Benaud or Neil Harvey expressing their discomfort over a new format I can understand. They have the moral authority to do so. But Ian Chappel doing that makes us very skeptical. he along with his brother haven't been the best friend of Indian cricket. If Wasim Akaram gives his view I would be interested to know what it is as doesn't wish ill for Indian cricket.

  • srivathsan on March 10, 2008, 13:49 GMT

    Yes ICL & IPL have created undesirable controversies across the globe more in particular India & paakistan.Any league to promote cricket is definitely welcome but the manner in which IPL has gone about is really sickening.To auction a player like commodity defeats /negates all human ethos & reminds me of slave trading in the earlier times.Even the amount spent defies all logic & would only spoil the player /game.While Iam not against players being paid well but there is a limit.Compared to IPL ,ICL has been going on a decent path.This does not mean that I am a supporter of ICL but you cannot find fault with them as they have agreed to release players for national duty.But placing restriction on players playing in ICL is absurd & does not stand scrutiny of law.It is duty bound for any board to pick up players of merit & not by which league he plays.MY APPEAL TO FELLOW BLOGGERS.PL.RESTRICT UR COMMENT TO CRICKET & APRECIATE GOOD CRICKET WHO EVER PLAYS.DO NOT BRING COUNTRY OR POLITICS.

  • Adi on March 10, 2008, 13:31 GMT

    All, I can't get my head around some of the malicious comments going around.

    1. Everyone has the right to secure their future. Including cricketers. I am an Indian working for a British Company in London. I do it for personal reasons, one of which is to earn more money that what I can in India. I support India, its cricket and everything else Indian. The amount of money that I earn infact motivates me to perform better so that I can get a bigger bonus and pay rise the next year. I hope this does not make me a 'traitor' or lead to a drop in my performance level. Everyone is a winner. Therefore concepts like IPL, ICL can work if they produce good quality of cricket. It will not hijack the international season, but will supplement it for the cricket mad-hungry country like India (I used to get up during my college days to see Aus-Zim matches down-under).

    The league system works as proved by football and may do so if you give it the chance in cricket as well. Peace everyone

  • sheraz on March 10, 2008, 13:21 GMT

    Guys, get a grip please.

    The is such a polarity of views depending on if your indian or pakistani. Can we not just take the article at face value and not bring the authors ethinicty into it ? Both Parties are as guilty of it as each other. For the record I am Pakistani. I personally think the IPL may not be a great concept and may be a dangerous precendent in terms of one cricketing body wielding too much power. That said, I am sure if Pakistan's body were able to hold such an influence due to economic might they would also be doing the same thing. This happens the world over. I will wait to see how successful the league will be as a spectacle before passing final judgement however past experiments such as the australia vs icc row xi show that the best players may not necessarily create the greatest spectacle. I also believe India will become the dominant team over the next few years as ultimately money talks in professional sport.

  • Philip Kaye on March 10, 2008, 12:51 GMT

    I am a big cricket fan, but I would rather see a world series baseball match then a cricket match between 2 sides I dont care about, played by players who are there for one reason only, in a format which bears little resemblance to the game I love. I just hope it doesnt ruin international cricket for those who really care about the game.

  • Anjo on March 10, 2008, 11:54 GMT

    Kamran, the minute Zee announced their intention to form a cricket league the situation we now find ourselves in became inevitable. Banning players is merely a temporary instrument national boards can take to slow the eventual ironclad grasp companies will have over cricket, and you can be sure that this current monopoly will be challenged once and for all. Personally, I think thats better for cricket.

  • The_Neighbours on March 10, 2008, 11:33 GMT

    Its NOT hearterning to see that all advancements in different facets of life (more in one neighbour and lesser in other) was unable to mature them. They are trying hard to prove themselves worse people in this part of world.

    By the way I am one of the neighbours ;)

    As far as Cricket Leagues are concerned, there should be as many leagues as can be, BUT don't put restrictions on any of them. Give all of them a fair chance.

    Grow up mates !

  • duhh on March 10, 2008, 11:12 GMT

    hey tawakal why are you worrying about indian cricket.see the sorry state your team is in.the worst that can happen to pakistan is to lose to weak teams.you guys should be thankful that australia is not coming or else you people would have been thrashed all over the ground

  • IndPak on March 10, 2008, 11:10 GMT

    :)..The Indian and Pakistani cricketers are minting money and smiling their way to the banks while fans are foolishly wasting time fighting on this forum.

  • santanu on March 10, 2008, 10:09 GMT

    it seems our neighbours(read pakistanis n srilankans)r not being able to digest our recent successes in the cricketing arena.....n let me remind jayamane srilankans r the worst travellers,a tag tht india was burdened with.n why say we have to beat the lankans to prove tht we r the best in the world.thts a redundant comment.i know we still arnt the best in the world but do have the potential.srilankans by the way r a spent force.......as regards ipl n icl i m not a great supporter of these concepts anyway.

  • anand on March 10, 2008, 9:40 GMT

    Some people here are preaching economics to Indians that they have made money due to inflated stock markets and inflated real estates and blah blah....Investment is an art and no body has stopped you from making money from stock market or elsewhere. Its open market economy dude. Coming back to cricket, with so much money pouring into cricket, people are grumbling about ugly culture. Spread peace guys, its an economy where anyone can prosper. Only a greenhorn will believe that money will corrupt cricket. If that is the case, why many companies' pay packets contain a variable component depending upon performance. A cricketer performing better will be paid more and the one who is not performing will be kicked. It simple "perform or perish" thing. Why so much of a fuss!! Spread peace.

  • Rahil on March 10, 2008, 8:58 GMT

    Javed Khan of montreal feels sorry for 350 million Indians. Hilarious statement Javedbhai, giving an insight into your myopic view and self opinionated nature of the world. Anyway I heard you suruvuve in quebec on Employment insurance. Why dont you donate that to the homeless if you feel so sorry. What is more amusing is how Pakistins seem to console themselves by saying Indian eceonomy and progress is not real. Well I hope the first world ,tourist friendly (especially NWP) country that Pakistan is know in the world today keeps progressing by leaps and bounds if this is your idea of progress. Oh one more thnig the T20 was a close affair according to you but a similar match in sharjah where Miandad just about managed a six on the last ball was total demolition of Indian team as per your opinion. Double standard and change opiion as and when required is the basic trait and eventhough you arein Montreal, its obvious you havent forgotten your basic traits/culture.

  • Muhammad Ali on March 10, 2008, 8:57 GMT

    First of all do not jump onto premature conclusions at least give the newly inaugurated League a couple of seasons before you decide whetherits a success or failure? or whether it will benefit or harm international cricket? Secondly there are too many unrelated comments on Kamran Abbasis article, specialyl Javeed khan Rajinder Khana etc. I mean what has all that got to do with anything writtenin this article?

  • Jon on March 10, 2008, 8:39 GMT

    Javed is a joker. He doesnot have the capability to talk about Sachin. He himself out of Pakistan and instead of helping our brothers in Pakistan, he is debating...dmn

  • sagor on March 10, 2008, 6:59 GMT

    I am a big fan of cricket but this bloody indian ICL,IPL leagues destroying cricket, buying our favorites criketors and doing hell, I think all counties should protest of it

  • Madan on March 10, 2008, 6:10 GMT

    Oh, so Philip seems to have got his facts wrong, eh?? I would like to add that the television rights of matches played in India were sold to Nimbus for $612 mn spread over a few years. I fail to see how the net worth can be lower than the sum of incomes earned from only one source from a period of a few years. This confirms that they would worry more about a long-drawn out war with Essel than legal battles.

  • Madan on March 10, 2008, 5:58 GMT

    @Philip John Joseph:

    Let's not compare cricket with baseball which is a much richer sport: 240 million dollars is still big money so it won't be easy to impoverish BCCI with out-of-court settlements. BCCI can and will always fall back on the doctrine of indoor management to corner ICL. The only solution is for other boards to quit international fixtures involving India. But India is the cash cow of international cricket, so nobody wants to bite the bullet. Doubtless the BCCI hopes that the ICL will fade away once the IPL becomes reality. But with Ten Sports also broadcasting ICL and Edelweiss as sponsor, things may not be so easy. Btw, turnover of Essel Group which owns Zee, ICL, et al this FY was USD 2.1 bn (don't know what's the net worth though). So Subash Chandra is a bigger threat to BCCI than US litigation costs!! He may well build his own private grounds to host the matches, makes real estate sense for him too. I wonder whether BCCI know what they are up against.

  • Karan on March 10, 2008, 5:50 GMT

    My only problem is that ICL players should not be banned. But I dont think BCCI has forced other boards, its the other boards who are following BCCI. Now that BCCI will share revenue with all other boards, they have nothing to complain. If IPL is a success (which I am sure about) then the amount each board gets from BCCI will be huge as compared to their earnings. If the boards are HONEST they can pump the money back in the game. We are pationate about the game but if you see the practical side you will realise that IPL and ICL are good attempts to professionalise and spread the game. Its a shame that only a few countries play this beautiful game and T20 is the best bet for the game to spread rather than test cricket. This is just the 1st year for ICL and IPL has not even started, why is everyone being pessimistic ? I am very eager for IPL to start and I wish there are matches in mumbai, i cant wait to watch Sachin and Sanath open the batting against Shoaib and Ishant and Lee & steyn.

  • Karan on March 10, 2008, 5:43 GMT

    Why is everyone just jumping to conclusions. The IPL may succeed or fail, only time will tell. Just wait and watch. I feel it will be a success and do good for cricket. Just if we all can rise above personal differences just like the players. Let me tell you that even the ICL is a success. I have someone working with ICL and the commercial facts which he shared indicate that ICL too will make money if it continues on this track. Do not go by the crowds in the game as there are a few reasons - 1) BCCI not giving proper grounds hence the matches are in sub-standard far off venues. 2) It is more a television event and for benefit of ZEE TV. 3) They charge Rs 100 to Rs 200 per entry. The ground has a max capacity of 15000, that means max Rs 3 Mn. That is pidly as that much is earned by them in a single commercial break. Dabur a leading FMCG co in India is now sponsoring Mumbai team. They now have a main sponsor and tittle sponsor. Money is coming knowing they will do well.

  • Siva K on March 10, 2008, 4:16 GMT

    I agree with Kamran partly, that the BCCI or any other board should not restrict players playing in either of these leagues. If the players can earn some money playing them it should be nobody's business stopping them .

    However, whether these leagues are detriment to Cricket is debatable .

    For all those Indians accusing Kamran and Osman of having a Pakistani bias - guys please get over this - its great that we are proud of "Mera Bharat Mahan", but it becomes silly to be so jingoistic, when you very well know they are one of the good Cricket journalists ( if you have been reading them all these days )

  • S.Jayamane on March 10, 2008, 4:05 GMT

    Dear Awas, I think you missed my last post where I addressed Mr Khanna's inappropriate post. I have read all of your posts in this blog and I agree with almost everything you say. However,I do not agree with your view on PJ Joseph. I think PJJ is nuts and his posts are full of misinformation. And I reiterate my doubt of him being an Indian. You cannot find an iota of warmth or fondness towards India in his posts.He is not doing a good job of hiding his true identity. As far as your friend (Javed)is concerned his comments make a lot of sense when he is talking about Pakistan Cricket but as soon as he starts talking about any other nation he stops making sense. In your last post you talked about why comparing club fotball (which as you rightly point out is seeped in tradition and history)with IPL/ICL is a folly.Can I also add that,unlike cricket, matches between football nations are infrequent. So an average football fan's staple diet comes from club games.This adds to the popularity.

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 10, 2008, 3:27 GMT

    SRKing and ZAK you guys don't have the guts and the courage to use a name that is your own. Awas, good comparison between the soccer fans and cricket fans, it won't get into the thick skulls of a few die hard exhaust fans. Besides, you'll be hearing this raving &ranting till the Indian team is rubbed and drubbed and this euphoria is gonna die very soon. But, right now they are intoxicated with the CB series win and IPL money and splattering loads and loads of dung!

  • R Sivasubramaniam on March 10, 2008, 2:14 GMT

    The banning of cricketers from joining the ICL is a 'restraint of trade' and ICL on behalf of the cricketers pledged to playing for them should sue the authorities. Kerry Packer did it and I don't see why the ICL cannot succeed. Cricketers are among the most lowly paid professional sportsmen and it is only fair that they try to supplement their income during the short span of active life. By 40 they are out and have to live for another 35 years or more with very little extra income. Sivasubramaniam, Singapore

  • Philip John Joseph on March 10, 2008, 2:13 GMT

    Jack:

    Your specious comment requires an immediate response. Do you know what the difference between sales revenue and net profit is? If the BCCI says that it pulls in 650 crores in SALES REVENUE, does that mean all of that money gets converted into net profit? Are you an accountant? You must be a really bad one ....

    Before you start quoting some newspaper editor's fantasy about the BCCI being worth 1.5 billion dollars, please go and check with the Deloitte and Touche accounting firm about the consequences of such silly and immature claims made by ignorant Indian newspaper editors. Dream on about the BCCI, dream on; but you won't fool the accountants ....

    Dhoni is getting paid for six weeks of work? Riiiiight. What is his annual salary? If you want to calculate how much you earn when your employer telex transfers your salary for the month, by dividing the amount by the fraction of a second it takes for those funds to get transferred, you really are silly .... Annual basis ONLY.

  • King0fHearts on March 10, 2008, 2:12 GMT

    I feel sorry for all the fans who are making mess out of nothing. Kamran has written about boards policies over ICL/IPL. He isnt complaigning about both leagues.

    To be true, boards are taking wrong stance on this especially PCB. Be a cricket lover, and i strongly feel a cricket lover cannot stop anyone from playing cricket. Boards have responsibility that every one is given chance to play cricket where ever possible and whenever on merit. I am in favour of both the leagues and i think these leagues will give good players for the future. As there are more indian young players in there so it will be a great experience for them to play with players who have been their heros

    Have fun

    -King0fHearts

  • venki3v on March 10, 2008, 1:22 GMT

    Charles, ECB, BCCI and all other cricket boards come under the same umbrella called ICC so they constitute a single entity.But because BCCI is a powerful member of ICC it protecting its interest by reguesting other boards from banning players who played in ICL and other boards obliged. I agree that indefinite ban against ICL players will be counter productive instead theyshould constitute a waiting period of say six months once their contract with ICL is over before they re-sign any of the ICC affiliated boards and sanctioned tournaments. I think even goes against basic ethics to work for competing firms at the same time. Your approach in name calling IPL as pathetic nonsense and Indian rubbish is doing no good to your argument and your myopic view of anything indian. BCCI is not harming world cricket in contrast it is bringing in more than 60% of money which fills ICC and other cricket board coffers.Naturally ECB doesn't want to kill the golden goose but instead milk the cash cow.

  • Saptarshi on March 10, 2008, 0:33 GMT

    Its just a pure case of sour grapes from Abbasi. He tried a similar stunt after the sydney test match saga. He has to realise the pakistani players are no good and hence they got low pay packets

  • SRKing on March 10, 2008, 0:27 GMT

    Now Rameez Raja has come out saying that Australia refused to go to Pakistan because of IPL. WHAT??? These guys are hilarious. Next they will say IPL is paying Mullas in Madrasas to spread 'peace' in Pakistan. These guys need to calm down and get out of their complex. Until they will keep on blaming the West or India for their problems, shit aint gonna happen in their country.

  • Charles on March 9, 2008, 23:56 GMT

    Venki3v said that 'no one employee can play for two entities at the same time' How wrong you are - they can so long as it is the right 'BCCI approved' league. So David Hussey - a person with an international career ahead of them can be contracted to his state side in Australia, Nottinghamshire CCC and to some mickey mouse team in some IPL rubbish. And he can play for all three + if needed Australia. So why can't say, Chris Read, play for Nottinghamshire and the ICL - what right does the BCCI have to demand that he is banned - who is the ICL harming other than English and world Cricket. Next season Hampshire and Sussex wil both be weaker because of some pathetic nonsense in Inida - I say that the ECB should say no to this ridiculous Indian rubbish - a message to whateverhisname is Modi - you do not own cricket, and you have no right to destroy the game in England - you are pathetic - just answer this, please, who does it hurt if a few player near the end of their careers play in the ICL

  • venki3v on March 9, 2008, 23:36 GMT

    john joseph Can someone be this stupid i am shocked.PPP is the best way to gauge and compare economies. We are comparing norms but you are talking about exceptions like buying mercedes-benz. Things like groceries, rent, services, home are based on purchasing power. So you rubbising PPP shows that the iota of brain you have left. Also don't talk about employments contract and IP rights i do that for a living and there could be some grey areas which could help bond in newzealand but not in India and USA. In usa most of the strategic employees of firms sign non-compete agreement which have been enforced in the court of law. Atleast i can understand there may be some grey areas in laws in newzealand with respect to employment contracts but you rubbising PPP shows the pea sized brain you have. Just a lesson in PPP a days' experience in MLB will set you back 60-70$ whereas the same in indian cricket stadium will at most cost you 10-15$ inlcuding transportation.

  • Awas on March 9, 2008, 23:09 GMT

    Asif Sarfraz, you are half right when you say cricket “ain't the national sport” in England as football is. Cricket is a summer national sport in England. My point was that club football in UK and other European countries is very territorial thing which evolved over many centuries. The supporters’ allegiance for their clubs has developed into like mini countries within a country. It is true “cricket will never take over football” but that is only when it is not played at international level. The atmosphere in summer suddenly changes when England hosts a series against another country. Neither can Rugby compete against football at club level but it transforms into a completely different category when played at international level. Non-team sports like Golf or Tennis cannot overtake football either but nevertheless whenever there is an international tournament like Wimbledon or Golf at St Andrews people go and watch in their droves even though many Brits exit in early rounds. St Andrews for example has a history of golf playing tradition going back some 600 years. So the buzz words are tradition, history and international all lacking in IPL/ICL.

    Once the novelty of ICL/IPL is worn off the local interest will soon vane. I am not saying that because the competitions are being run in India. It would be the same scenario even if it was held in UK, Australia or Pakistan for that matter. Soon, I believe, it will evolve into Middlesex v Mumbai, Calcutta v Karachi, Sydney v Sialkot Lahore v Hyderabad, and so on or better still countries against countries.

  • Awas on March 9, 2008, 23:08 GMT

    I watched the match between Ahmadabad Rockets v Chandigarh Lions in the ICL league. There didn’t seem to be much interest as far as the crowd attendance was concerned. Hence my point in my first comment that unless countries are playing against countries, the players do not have the same passion and neither can you have a large fan following.

    ICL did a good thing by making a team out of retirees and rejects in Lahore Badshahs. It’s a good move as it will create more interest because of national fervour. You will see many more Indians at the ground as the match will be against a Pakistani team. Santosh makes a good point that “is the main reason I will be watching the entire circus from Kuwait”. Similarly, Faisal Taquie has said it well that cricket thrives on "International Rivalry" as we all enjoyed series in down-under.

    As I mentioned in my first comment English County cricket is loaded with international stars but the grounds are usually empty at county games until the one day championship reaches the final stages. The 3 or 4 days county championship does not attract many crowds.

    Manoj – Bill Gates lost many millions in indulging in ventures other than selling Operating Systems even though such ventures were technology related. Anyway, losing a few millions doesn’t bother people like Ambani.

    To all those shouting jingoistic slogans should instead learn from the likes of Jay and Philip John Joseph as surly there are many like them amongst a vast Indian population world over. (cont’d…)

  • Z.A.K on March 9, 2008, 23:00 GMT

    Javed A Khan , you feel sorry for homeless indians !!It's nice to know that a citizen of a first world country like Pakistan feels sorry for third world indians.LOL.Absolutely hilarious . It is a bit like an Ethiopian feeling sorry for the homeless in Somalia.

  • Jack on March 9, 2008, 22:59 GMT

    Philip John Joseph: I do not know what your problem is but you seem to have a serious chip on your shoulder. Not only do you leave a serious bad taste on this blog, you also seem to spread outright lies and misinformation to move your agenda forward. BCCI's net worth is in excess of USD 1.5bn. Do you even know the difference between net worth and net income? BCCI last yr made a net income of about USD200mn. With IPL coming to the fore its net worth/income will increase many folds. Do some research before you spread your bile. It is annoying how you keep talking about FACTS when you have no knowledge of what we are talking. And as far as income of the players goes yes MS Dhoni will make more money than football superstars on a weekly basis. He is making 1.5mn for 6 weeks of work. Thats about $250,000 a week. Do tell how many sports stars make that much in a week. Overall a footballer may make more but hey they have to work 40 weeks for it. And 1.5mn in India gets you a lot more too

  • Sikander Rashid on March 9, 2008, 22:40 GMT

    Hello folks,

    I visited the blog after a long time and I am pleased to see a few articulate and rationale people having a debate here.

    Vikas: I can't agree more with you when you say this:

    Posted by: Vikas at March 8, 2008 10:39 AM

    "Javed Khan(Montreal) waits until an eternity for Kamran Abbasi's blog to appear and pounces on it with a vengeance accompanied with a million swear words and prose filled with exces verbosity and wordage.He wants others to know what a pathetic writer he is deserving no less than a 1000 sympathies.Kamran Abbasi has written a wonderful piece of analysis which is neutral in its critique and presents an enlightening viewpoint".

  • Martin Hook on March 9, 2008, 22:12 GMT

    I think for the sake of cricket development in pakistan; they should suspend their national team for couple of years and participate in ICL/IPL with full gusto; that way they would be able to develop their cricketing talent by taking advantage of excellent infrasturcture provided by this league. If you think it is a non-serious suggestion that may be because you are not thinking out-of-the box. Imagine a young pakistani bowler being trained by lille and buchnan, making whole lot of money and getting physical conditiones along side international super stars coach, trainers and players.

  • Philip John Joseph on March 9, 2008, 21:24 GMT

    ajith, venki3v, Madan:

    ajith:

    You didn't read my OTHER post BEFORE your Purchasing Power post. Purchasing Power is rubbish as demonstrated by the World Bank knocking 3 trillion dollars off China's Purchasing Power economy when they found the calculations were wrong. Try and buy a Mercedes-Benz with Purchasing Power. Mercedes-Benz will demand market exchange rates from Indians. They will reject Purchasing Power exchange rates, so if you want to buy Indian rice or sugar, PPP is fine, but Mercedes-Benz will tell you to get lost.

    venki3v:

    You don't know anything about employment contracts, so don't talk. BCCI has no jurisdiction over Shane Bond's employment contract with the New Zealand Cricket Board; that is for the New Zealand courts to decide. Are you an employment contract lawyer? You must be a really bad one ....

    Madan:

    BCCI's coffers are overflowing? Let's talk FACTS. BCCI net worth = 240 million dollars. Poorest MLB baseball team net worth = 244 million dollars.

  • Terminator on March 9, 2008, 21:12 GMT

    As far as Javed Khan's comment of the money being spent to develop facilities goes, he misses the point. The money is being coughed up by private organizations, not the BCCI. BCCI will make money off the IPL TV rights, which it *may* choose to use on things like infrastructure.

    Bring out the worst in the game? Really, Kamran? You think this is worse than the sorry saga(s) in Australia vs. India series? Or two quicks "inadvertently" taking naldrolone, and kept away from international drug testers to avoid a ban? Not so sure the use of the superlative is apt... not to say it's not bad, but worst?

  • Terminator on March 9, 2008, 21:02 GMT

    Actually, I think it was Chappell who made the best point about BCCI arm twisting the ICC, in which he said that the boards who developed the players get nothing out of the IPL but must now ensure that their players don't play for the ICL. The BCCI makes its money (thus far) from internationals - thus, if all cricket boards gang up against the BCCI for their pound of flesh, I don't see how the BCCI can refuse. BCCI using it's clout to supress competition is patently unfair and monopolistic. Even microsoft was more discreet. That said, please don't pontificate. If young minds get corrupted by money, let them be. Sachin Tendulkar was the richest sportsman in India when he was around 22, and his peak came 6-7 years later. If anything, IPL will distract those in it only for the money, and keep them from wearing national colours. On the flip side, it'll keep those driven by money away from the national side :) What's wrong in making money anyway? None of us work for free! (contd...)

  • manoj on March 9, 2008, 20:06 GMT

    Disagree with you Kamran. Let the market speak. If market its free pple will get what they want. Market is pretty democratic. Ambani will not spend money on anything if he thinks he cannot get it back - short term or long term. which means he will not do anything the 'pple' - u and i and the crowd - don't like. Its like america stupid :) Manoj

  • Tawakal on March 9, 2008, 19:34 GMT

    Rajendra Khanna congratulation for India winning CB Series. But let me remind you that last time England have won the CB series but they aare not world class team. So its just matter of luck and a couple of bad days for Australia.And you have said that Pakistan is not better team than india It may be true for time being but history tells that once india change their captain they become good team and after that every one knows what happen. So enjoy some good time for indian cricket diaster is nearby.

  • Jai on March 9, 2008, 19:16 GMT

    It's clear that ICL is a joke for washed up cricketers to recive their pension. Whereas the IPL was invented just to cruch this ICL. The only people who will profit is the BCCI and the cricket players of the IPL. The owners are the big losers because it will take years for them to even break even. For someone like Mukesh Ambani, the loss is like a drop of water in the ocean. Whereas other investors might feel it slightly more. Watch out for USMAN QADIR son of leggie Abdul who had this to say About Sachin THE GREAT Tendulkar, Abdul Qadir remarked, "What can I say? Is there anyone greater than him in cricket?"

  • Martin Hook on March 9, 2008, 18:55 GMT

    It seems to me that there is a direct correlation between India's financial growth and its cricketing might. The financial boost has created fantastic infrastructure for cricket in this country that has helped create a pool of talented youngsters --who are likely to dominate cricket for long time to come. India used to struggle for one good pace bowler; now they have eight to chose from. On other had traditional powerhouses of cricket like WI and Pak are deteriorating in front of our eyes, because of lack of financial backing. The development of ICL and IPL should be seen in this light.

  • Suraj on March 9, 2008, 18:29 GMT

    ICL, IPL, what the hell? – Wow Kamran, you are ever so witty! Ever considered a career in comedy? I’m sure that you would have the likes of Javed A Khan in splits and falling out of their prams in paroxysms of mirth. Sarcasm aside, your point about the BCCI restricting cricketers playing in the ICL is valid but has been covered much better by many people – you have added nothing new to the debate. Rather, this single-mindedly vitriolic post against the leagues betrays you to be one of the many Pakistanis who are jealous of the success of anything Indian. While the Indian economy roars and emerges as one of the major superpowers of the world, Pakistan just slips further into the cesspool – so much so that they have trouble getting the Australian team tour there. Hurts being the poor cousin, doesn’t it Kamran? Your admission that your only interest in the leagues is the Lahore team shows that your world view is as myopic as that of the aforementioned (unfortunately)verbose buffoon.

  • Faisal Taquie on March 9, 2008, 18:23 GMT

    I think IPL and ICL would fail simply because since the inception of modern cricket, it has thrived on "International Rivalry". I am a Pakistani and I watched the entire CB series to see three national teams compete. I do not really want to see a team which contains hypothetically Tendulkar, Shoaib Akhtar, and Jayasuria to play against a team with Dravid, Ponting, and Vaas (hypothetical team). I would rather watch India vs. Australia or India vs. Pakistan! Club football revolves around countries whose history and cultures are similar whereas in IPL/ICL, there are a lot of cultural barriers.

    I wish BCCI uses its economic power to arrange the World Cup or Champions Trophy every year. If NBA, NFL, Baseball world series, EPL, La Liga, etc can arrange their premier tournaments every year, why can't we have T20, 50-50 tournaments every year, utilizing BCCI's econmonic power....

    That would be so much interesting!

  • Santosh on March 9, 2008, 18:14 GMT

    Shane Bond should sue NZ Cricket Board for a$$ licking BCCI, ECB and PCB should be flogged in the open for selling their soul to the 'money lenders'. If a non contracted player plays cricket anywher else its non of thier business .. BTW i enjoyed todays circus , Wavel Hinds was awesome, BIG thanks to ZEE and TEN sports for the excellent coverage.

  • Santosh on March 9, 2008, 18:10 GMT

    @ Madan : Excellent point, it is only a matter of time before the Big Empire falls, BCCI has already enough to worry about in India, i won't be surprised if some day the Court orders a match between BCCI and ICL , Winner represent India, after all BCCI is a private body. I won't be surprised to see bickering between Pawar and Modi. Just a matter of time my friend.

  • Sillypointer on March 9, 2008, 17:57 GMT

    Philip John Joseph...

    In your analogy to USA basketball and NBA, the key difference that you either fail to recognize or aren't aware of is that USA Basketball is a non-profit organization and the national governing body for men's and women's basketball in the United States, while BCCI is a private trust who does not even disclose their funds to the public and have made it clear that the so called "Indian" team is actually BCCI's team. Also, the basketball players who play for USA get paid nothing - zilch, unlike the boat loads that the international cricket players do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

    Not that they have covered themselves in utter glory, but it just appears to be fashionable to bash BCCI and call them idiots for anything and everything. I guess, that comes with the territory when you are the richest board.

  • venki3v on March 9, 2008, 16:58 GMT

    It's nothing wrong in ICL players being banned from playing for their respective board. Players once contracted by their cricket boards they are strategic resources of the cricket boards. Cricket boards have the right to deploy their resources where they feel fit. Strategic resources of any entity cannot work for a company and its competitors at the same time. Can anyone in their sane mind accept a Food Scientist, Marketing Strategist or a Brand manager work for pepsi and coke at the same time and the same logic applies for IPL and ICL

  • junaid on March 9, 2008, 16:44 GMT

    IPL is a carbon copy of ICL. I can't understand BCCI's objection to ICL. ICL is a good alternative for players who couldn't make it to prime time. The very reason why young Indian cricketers join ICL is because they feel they have been ignored by the BCCI. To impose life bans on such players is adding insult to injury. Everyone has a fundamental right to work and feed his family. To impose restrictions upon players and limiting their playing opportunity is cruel and unethical. Why can't ICL and IPL co-exist? How about playing a championship match each season with ICL champion Vs IPL champion?

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 9, 2008, 16:38 GMT

    The IPL affair is not a matter of sour grapes for Pakistanis. It is wrongly assumed by some Indian die hard exhaust fans here, because we all know that there are about 7 Pakistani players in it and we are not sparing them either, Shahid Afridi getting $675,000 and Malik $500,000 is much more than most other Australians like big pigeon McGrath, Shane Warne, Ricky Ponting, Mike Hussey etc. So, those who are bragging their own icon's tail and talking about sour grapes should cut the crap. Like, I said, b4 a majority of the Indians live in the dream world of Bollywood and their so called stars are now into cricket as well viz., SRK, Padukone and P. Zinta etc., so, for more than a billion plus population it is pure entertainment and my earlier comment on the 350 million plus must have hit the raw nerve of a few! "On looker" bhai, curiosity killed the cat and onlookers often get hit by stray bullets, so don't be so inquisitive and don't be a sitting duck either. ;-) Sholay and those names you've mentioned, bhai to which generation and era do you belong? Hey Chestnutgrey, what a way to describe human anatomy and then talk about stomach! Very soon your euphoria will die, read what Madan has written, "just like Pakistan performs heaps better against India than any other nation." I guess being an Indian he has the stomach and the guts to speak the truth, eh?

  • Usman Washington DC on March 9, 2008, 16:18 GMT

    I think this circus should stop. Cricket has lost its glory with this non-sense t20 cricket. No one plays for the country anymore. Everything is worried about the money. This is simply embarrasing for the cricketers to be auctioned. Every player should be paid handsomely while playing for their country, not any money hungry league. This is just to make money nothing else. Cricket has lost a lot of its followers. Its an old game but is no where near the popularity of soccer because the cricket bosses are just sitting their looking to make more and more money. They are not concentrating on making sure all the countries participate in different tournaments. if you look at the ftp only countries which generate more money have a lot of cricket. 20 tests for Australia and 3 for Pakistan? What kind of discrimination is that? 16 Tests for india just because it generates more money. Why do you think Pakistan's test team is not that great any more? Pakistan hardly plays any tests.

  • Shrey on March 9, 2008, 16:15 GMT

    The fact that the BCCI chooses to treat a man who gave Indian Cricket its finest hour in the manner that it is see sickens me, The IPL should try to take into its fold the ICL players as well,but that seems as remote as India and Pakistan uniting.The BCCI is a board run by politicians and people who have very little to do with the game, thats why they probably love the money more than the game itself.

  • Captain Swing on March 9, 2008, 16:05 GMT

    Dr Abbasi - Congratulations on the new look JRSM. You're right in your analysis that the ban on the ICL is corrupt 'croney capitalism'. End of that story.

    I worry though about Indian triumphalism, which makes so many Indian bloggers relish the destruction of the English season, or any other blow to tradition that this festival of finance will ensure.

    And your bloggers seem to be at each other's throats, spewing nationalist insults. It's obviously too much to hope that love of cricket would unite us.

    Finally, it is less than a year since India failed in the pool stage of the one-day championship - Indian love of the 50 over format died. Their subsequent success in the Twenty-20 kindled their love for the shorter game and spawned this new tournament. So time and chance affect all things, and this may yet be a lethal blow to the five-day Tests that many of us love best of all.

  • Madan on March 9, 2008, 15:12 GMT

    David Furrows: Hopefully the BCCI will be impoverished by the cost of defending the absurd ICL bans - especially if, as suggested, Shane Bond intends to file suit in the USA.

    Don't even think of that, my friend. The world's an oyster for BCCI's overflowing coffers. Shane Bond or whoever sues BCCI must win the case somehow or the other for the greater good of cricket, though they (that is, BCCI and other boards)can still informally 'ban' players playing in ICL by simply overlooking them in the selection process and no court of law will then be able to compel say NZ to include Shane Bond in the team. Sad but true.

  • Madan on March 9, 2008, 15:08 GMT

    Jayamane: In other words over the last decade India has performed beyond it's capabilities against Australia , just like Pakistan performs heaps better against India than any other nation.

    I would have agreed with you if your comment had been made right after the Coca-Cola cup in Sharjah, 1998. It was true then that we seemed to do well against Aus, but not necessarily so against other teams. However, this team has won Test series in England, WI and were the only team to take a Test off Aus since Adelaide 2003 which again was won by India. While getting to no.1 and then holding it will take some doing, there is no doubt that India have gained critical mass in the last few fixtures. If Aus were 'tired' (which they didn't profess to be on the eve of the first final and were cocky as could be), India too had a raw young team and the title was won by relentlessly pushing Aus over the tipping point, not pure fluke as much as skeptics and detractors would wish it was that.

  • venki3v on March 9, 2008, 14:23 GMT

    There is so much of stupidity and idiotic demagoguery going on here from pakistan, english and australian fans. These fans just cannot stomach the fact indian cricket is financially powerful. The simple fact no employees can work for two entities at the same time. This is what bcci and other cricket boards are enforcing on their players. If ICL is successful it can create his own international cricket league and have its own world cup and various national teams. Nobody is stopping that. Only thing that can be changed is players can be alowed to switch leagues after a six month gap between the contracts before they sign with the rival league. As for BCCI arm twisting other boards, BCCI is doing great service to other boards by requiring players present NOC from their respective board before they play in IPL. If BCCI removes this clause it would totally drain the cricket talent pool in most of the countries and the fact the clause is still in shows BCCI's prudent decision making.

  • Asif Sarfraz on March 9, 2008, 13:48 GMT

    Oh yeah the other thing! I just can not figure out why the ICL is not recognised by the ICC, while the IPL is! Any answers please post here! By the way I am supporting the Hyderabad team in the IPL tournament! The team sheet is amazing! I just hope some channel is showing it in the UK!

  • Asif Sarfraz on March 9, 2008, 13:44 GMT

    Guys from what I have read in the posts there is a lot of jealousy, for the IPL/ ICL! Give it a chance, IPL hasn't even started yet! I'm excited to see it! I'm a Pakistan fan, and I think it's a great idea! There might be a lot of money involved, or whatever, but it's bringing different nations together! By the way I agree on current form India are better than Pakistan right now! Pakistan has to win a few one-day series and importantly Test matches, before I give them any credit! You can not compare football leagues to cricket leagues! There two different sports guys! As for the county season in England, well it is good to watch, but no offence, I think the reason why some people go to cricket matches here is, because they can drink alcohol at the same time! Look what happened today England screwed up big time against New Zealand! Cricket will never take over football in this country, cause it ain't the national sport! Whereas in India cricket is the national sport, hence the monies!

  • Adnan Mohsin Zaman on March 9, 2008, 13:38 GMT

    I am now started to hate this IPL and ICL thing because what it is doing it is making money the first priority then the game or nation for players.For those who are comparing it with european league EPL are mmaking wrong comparision.Criciket has a long way to go be counted in same bracket as soccer. Please for god sake give us quality test cricket than this 20/20 mini skirts girls.

  • Jay on March 9, 2008, 12:48 GMT

    As an Indian based in Singapore, I very strongly support and endorse the comments made in Mr. Kanran Abbasi's excellent article. No Indian journalist/editor has had the guts to come out and unequivocally call a spade a spade though some have cautiously expressed misgivings. This whole tamasha is a travesty of the game as we know and love it, and comparisons to the EPL and the NBA are irrelevant and fatuous. True, some cricketers will get very rich very soon and more power to them for cashing in on the opportunity, but the ture "winners', if you can call them that, will be the Lalit Modis of this world fattening their bulging wallets while the game itself disintegrates,as the novelty of the IPL/ICL wears off after having rendered impotent the traditional structure of the game.Americans, who have long scoffed at cricket as a game, will end up having the last laugh ! Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose !!

  • Awas on March 9, 2008, 12:44 GMT

    S.Jayamane

    You have enough bias not to see much wrong in the posting of YOUR “friend” that was only the 2nd comment of this thread and had nothing to do with the subject at all and all to do with jingoism, waiting for a new thread to start to jump straight away just to get personal.

    If you needle someone out of nowhere, a reaction is only natural. In my view the wrongdoer was the accuser not the defender hence my “clarifications”.

    I would have much preferred had you discussed the topic of the thread as 90% of my comment was at least all to do with the subject matter that may have gone over your head.

  • santanu roy on March 9, 2008, 12:14 GMT

    I fully agree with you that board should not dectate the player in which league they will play.

  • Chestnutgrey on March 9, 2008, 11:58 GMT

    Hiya Javed, old bhai. Can't really stomach the fact that India did very well in Australia, can you? Not surprising. There were some other noises made from there after the India-Pak test series that this Indian team will be walloped down under. "let's see how these homeboys do against the Aussies." And then there was Shoaib AKhthar who famously stated that India was scared of pace and that Shaun Tait would blow us away. Actually, he should be thanked for the suggestion. Besides Tait, India hastened the retirements of Gilchrist and Hogg as well. Hyuk, hyuk. Tell you what. Maybe Australia will intentionally lose to Pakistan next time the two meet, to make up for skipping the tour. And if you lose, you can always conveniently blame match fixing, Shoaib Akhthar, Moin Khan and whatever you chose to.

  • Noman on March 9, 2008, 10:56 GMT

    Well ! I dont think that IPL will do any good to cricket. If somebody really want to do something good for cricket then thier are many ways other then this. West Indies Cricket is going down and down similarly lots of problem in Zimbabwe and the funny thing is rather then atleats finding out whats the reason of this, we are turning our back on these issue and starting IPL. Only BCCI will benefit from this, if BCCI really wants to do some good for cricket world wide then why not to take youngsters from each test playing nation who never played international cricket, like may be some players from under 19 teams, now if you want to make somebody a star then this is the only way to promote youngsters or making somebody really star...

    The thing is IPL is only for BCCI, So ICC has to undertsnad that if they want to back IPL then they should discuss some plans about how can this IPL be beneficial for WORLDWIDE cricket not just BCCI cricket...

  • omar hussain on March 9, 2008, 10:47 GMT

    The name of the game here is not cricket but the ages old lust for gold.The organisers of the leagues know it so do the players.The national cricket boards of all cricket playing nations need to come to an agreement over whether players should be allowed to play where they wish or not.This must be included in their national contracts.It is up to the individual to decide what is best for him.No doubt greater wealth will lure most of the players but like in the Packer age they should not be deterred from playing for their motherland.In this case the leagues must make some comppromise.I fear that cricket has fallen prey to commercialsm and cricketers are becoming more like circus performers.

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 9, 2008, 10:25 GMT

    Contrary to some of the regulars on Pak Spin who start their comments by praising the avatar of the blog by saying excellent views, great comments, "I am agree," etc., I usually get to the point and I don't hesitate in disagreeing with Kamran and then, some people get offended and say, I am disagreeing for the sake of disagreement. Thats not true like others I have my own views and I don't hesitate in expressing them whether they are for or against the subject. Its a known fact that both, Kamran Abbassi and Osman Samiuddin are excellent writers on cricinfo and for once I gave him the due because, on this particular subject both of them have aired their feelings very effectively and in a very eloquent manner. Now, here comes a new kid on the block, S. Jayamane who suddenly manifested rather, incarnated all of a sudden from thin air with his three airy and pompous comments in a row to complete a hat-rick. We have seen so many self proclaimed gurus and avatars of cricket here. Perhaps you were hoping that someone would pat your back for being such a judicious person with so much wisdom. Read the last line of your first comment before criticizing others.

  • Santosh on March 9, 2008, 10:21 GMT

    I cared less for ICL, but when some stupid politicians and businessmen who never held the bat in thier lives dictate terms i am in full suppoprt for ICL ( either way i will follow Kapil and Gang Blindly because they won the kcufing world cup man!, where is the gratitude ). BCCI needs some serious wake up calls. I'd rather see ICL than IPL . And reject Badshah's is the main reason i will be watching the entire circus from Kuwait.

  • Philip John Joseph on March 9, 2008, 9:24 GMT

    S.Jayamane:

    Judging by the content of your post to me, I must conclude that you are an autochthonous natural born citizen of Idiotopia, which clearly beats my permanent residency status. Anyway, I'll address your pseudo-points, just in case you have any semblance of logic left in you.

    First of all, you wonder what my real name is. My real name is Philip John Joseph. Think about it for a moment. Would someone using that name fake an Indian identity, or would he in fact be real? What you propose is the kind of mind-boggling conspiracy theory which would really raise my bid on idiotopia beyond any semblance of comprehensibility. Anyway ....

    Did you get upset that I derided Murali for claiming that Warne was jealous? Would you like to debate that comment, or just join in the faecal matter slinging as you so put it. I consider Murali a chucker, but I have no problem with him chucking. Ask Bishan Singh Bedi about Murali. Salaries are relative you say? Uh, that's MY point.

  • David Furrows on March 9, 2008, 8:28 GMT

    You can look at the ICL/IPL debacle two ways.

    The ban on ICL players who are not under central contracts is blatantly unlawful anti-competitive behaviour dictated by a bullying BCCI and executed by supine national boards, sure.

    But the ICL ban is getting rid of the dead wood, clearing out all the older players who were never dedicated enough to fully succeed at the top. The Gilchrists and Warnes are retiring prematurely for IPL riches, so the opposition isn't too strong either, and the poorer nations (Pakistan and NZ) which have lost most to the ICL have a chance to blood new players against IPL depleted opposition.

    Hopefully the BCCI will be impoverished by the cost of defending the absurd ICL bans - especially if, as suggested, Shane Bond intends to file suit in the USA.

  • Rajesh on March 9, 2008, 7:43 GMT

    Its funny to read all the posts accusing Pakistan of the bias :)

    I am little bit old fashioned but I still think watching India vs Aus or Ashes or Pak vs Ind is more absorbing and fun then maybe watching or supporting any of the teams in IPL or ICL.

    btw what happened to Open Market .... why BCCI is forcing all the boards to BAN players who are playing under ICL .... MIND BOGGLING really !!!

    As far as the safety in Pakistan is concerned I do wonder how many matches played in pakistan were not safe or got called off in the middle due to crowd misbehaviour or safety reasons.

  • Chris on March 9, 2008, 7:31 GMT

    To Philip John Joseph:

    Well, I don't know how much of a success the ICL really was. Haven't heard much about it after the intial hype other than the odd story of players retiring and then joining it. Haven't heard or seen any analysis on the turnout and reception by the Indian public.

    As for the English Premiership, you ask whether I would "rather have the best or at least richest league in the world of football in England or somewhere else, say Italy?" Italy won the last World Cup so I would yes, even though I'm not English. The last time England won it was in 1966...in England. The closest they have come since then is 1990 when they came in fourth. What good is having the richest league if your national team is crap compared to other big teams (with poorer leagues)? And what good is having the richest league if all that money doesn't properly go back to the grassroots but instead circulates in and for the premiership? India should be careful to aviod that mistake with the IPL.

  • Curious Onlooker on March 9, 2008, 6:32 GMT

    Interesting discussion on cricket but Javed Bhai's comic interludes are the really the most interesting. Much like a Jagdeep or Asrani popping up in a Sholay to provide some trite meaningless humor. But somehow I feel Javed does not realise that this is not a Hindi potboiler but he still comes across a joke.

  • Chandana DXB on March 9, 2008, 6:19 GMT

    ICL or IPL both showing Money Power Only. There is NO GOOd CRICKET...!

    Money is KILLING CRICKET ( Masters Game )

  • ksmk on March 9, 2008, 6:00 GMT

    Most comments are away from the topic, comment about IPL/ICL and cricket and stop your super brains from creating astrological predictions about India (There are highly educated people to that. Any country will never need comments from someone who just want to drain out their frustration in a forum). If u are from a rich country that looks India as a poorest country, i do not see any need for such rude comments. Sour grapes.

  • sandeep on March 9, 2008, 4:00 GMT

    thanks kamran abassi i cant believe that its only two pakistani writers you and osman samiudduin have written soe thing cycnical about this IPL the entire indian media is afriad of lalit modi it sems he has even signed up for google alert in his own name !!! would u believe it .. so if he asks them to scrwal they they will sweep the floor !!! maybe i can viusualize indian media blacking out UEFA chamiions league french open wimbledon and even beinjing olympics so that no event can the threat to this mickey mouse thing callled IPL i knw of few newspapers whose name needs no mention and few TV channe;ls who have even taken money from lalit modi to do so ... God save indian mdia

  • Jayamane on March 9, 2008, 3:22 GMT

    To Martin Hook, stop this almost racial diatribe against Pakistan . It is OK to give a mixture of positive and negative comments but your comments are always toxic.

    To Mr Rajendra Khanna, Your first comment was totally uncalled for and had no relevance to the topic of this blog.However you have made the comment and I thought it would be fair to respond. Please keep in mind that India is to Australia what Pakistan is to India . In other words over the last decade India has performed beyond it's capabilities against Australia , just like Pakistan performs heaps better against India than any other nation.The exception was the recent win against the Pakistani team which IMO cannot count for much as it was the weakest Pakistani team of the last 25-30 years.I think India is overestimating the importance of their one day victory over a tired Australian team.They would have to perform equally well on away series in SA , NZ and Sri Lanka before talking about being the best in business.

  • kumar on March 9, 2008, 3:04 GMT

    Agree with Adnan. In any case, if it does not provide entertainment it will fade away. Also I feel if players play with each other in IPL/ICL and later on against each other in their country matches, the emotions of the fans will be comparatively less than what it is today. Hopefully, matches will remain matches and not turn out in to wars.

  • S.Jayamane on March 9, 2008, 2:49 GMT

    Dear Phillip John Joseph (or whatever your real name is)

    I was hoping to request you to keep Sri Lanka out of your friendly Indo-Pakistani faecal slinging .To say that Murali's so called jealous trait comes from the fact that he is close to India is a comment so moronic that it has guaranteed you Permanent Residency in Idiotopia .However your nincompoopian drivel was unstoppable and you soon outdid yourself by comparing the pay packets of IPL cricketers to NBA players.It is like comparing the income of doctors of Sri Lanka to those of USA .Top Doctors in Sri Lanka make good money by Sri Lankan standards but not anywhere close to there American counterparts. It is all relative.

  • S.Jayamane on March 9, 2008, 2:47 GMT

    Dear Javed A. Khan, the first post in this blog was yours . No one is doubting Dr Abbasi's writing skills but the amount of honey & sugar dripping in your post warrants an insulin infusion.However , you soon showed your true colours in your next post and the verbal diarrhoea you manifested was befitting your status as the cheapest contributor in this blog.You enlightened the readers about Mr Rajendra Khanna's genetic heritage followed by your usual spew about India. It was heartening to see your friend Awas make some more clarifications about Mr Khanna's surname and it gladdened my heart to see your concern about India's homeless people.You are a prime example of love thy neighbour philosophy. Kudos.

  • khanSRK on March 9, 2008, 2:42 GMT

    If Club Football can work why not ICL/IPL? It just needs infrastructure and money. As far as people's interest is concerned, who knows how things turn up? People here are commenting on the future with so certainty it is hilarious. The same people are the ones who dont even know whether their next international fixation will even happen or not(though at least that can be predicted with some certainity), and they are so sure about the future of IPL. Also noteworthy is the fact that they are concerned about homeless in India, and not that much concerned about how even people with home and money cannot go and buy flour in the market if they wanted to in their country.

  • S.Jayamane on March 9, 2008, 2:41 GMT

    Dear Dr Abbasi, I am in partial agreement.I agree that this Mafia of Cricket Boards (predominantly led by BCCI)needs to dismantled.So much clout concentrated in one place cannot be healthy.It is unacceptable for various boards to bar players from playing for their country if they opt for ICL.A few of the Australian and NZ cricketers are going to challenge this in their respective courts and it would be interesting to see the outcome.I also believe that Cricketers from Pakistan,Sri Lanka,West Indies and India (with the exception of the Indian cricketers of the last 10-15 years) have been poorly paid.Usually the careers of cricketers would not last beyond a decade and the IPL/ICL has given them a chance to earn reasonable sums of money. The ICL is already a failure and the IPL may or may not fail but it is nice to know that the cricketers ( especially the ones from humble backgrounds ) are adequately compensated. Lastly , many thanks for this wonderful platform.

  • Suresh Kumar on March 9, 2008, 1:15 GMT

    Hi Kamran: Nice one! Can people like you, Dileep, Sambit Bal, Mukul and entire Cricinfo start a campaign against the arrogance and monopolistic attitude of IPL/BCCI? Come out openly and educate the public. The whole affair reeks of injustice. I am afraid that IPL may put pressure even on Cricinfo to tow their line. For a change why don't we all support the underdog ICL and Kapil Dev? You can see how the power of money can even silence the current players like Tendulkar and Dravid and Fleming and Gilchrist - none of whom have said anything about the various boards banning their players for joining ICL. Shame isn't it?

  • Philip John Joseph on March 9, 2008, 0:53 GMT

    Sillypointer, you are WRONG.

    Check out the relationship between USA Basketball and the NBA. USA Basketball does NOT ban NBA players from playing for the United States if they decide to play for the NBA or even if they refuse an invitation from USA Basketball in any given year/competition. This is to do with maturity. The BCCI has ZERO maturity. If the BCCI claims to represent India, just like USA Basketball the BCCI should be committed to fielding the best national team available and not engaging in silly politics. What we have here is a "conflict of interest" whereby the governing body of Indian international cricket is the same as the governing body of Indian domestic cricket. In America there is a separation of powers, so USA Basketball behaves in a mature fashion.

    That said, I do NOT believe in government regulation of monopoly power, so I think the idiots at the BCCI should be allowed to slug it out with the ICL in whatever fashion they please.

    DEATH TO THE BCCI.

  • Mutz on March 9, 2008, 0:21 GMT

    I think the idea of IPL and ICL is better for the cricket, what i am AGAINST is the ICC and the boards that have refused to recognise the ICL and the players are having to face the consequences.

  • Jack on March 8, 2008, 23:39 GMT

    Maybe the author of the article should take a few lessons in employment contracts. Cricket is run by a set of boards who assess domestic leagues, provide the infrastructure and bring players to the fore to play for national teams. In other words all the skeletal structure of cricket is made by these folks. Asking them to give up their players so they can go and earn more money through another employer is the same as taking a job at Google and then simultaneously wanting to work and Microsoft and then complaining about it because it isn't fair. Well DUH! You have an employer and you stick by them. If the employer comes up with a league of their own (IPL) then it is entirely legit. The ICL guys are free do what they want after resigning from the official boards. ICL is also more than welcome to run a parallel cricketing universe. Nobody is being forced here. ICL players are making the same amount of money as IPL players with better benefits. If they are fired then there is nothing wrong

  • Adnan Hakim on March 8, 2008, 23:09 GMT

    The idea of IPL is a good one. Whats the problemn if cricketers can make some more money? And in football we see the best games to be coming from the clubs!! I really dont know why people think someone cannot go and play at some otjher country? Passion for cricket is same whether you play for your country or for a club. Money is motivation you have to agree to that no matter what people say about patriotism and what not. Brazilians go to play for the european leagues that doesnt mean that they dont have patriotism. So I dont think it will do any harm to cricket overall if not better! Cheers!

  • Avenger on March 8, 2008, 20:59 GMT

    @Javed Khan - "You may go to a Bawdy House and get Martin Hookerrrrr and come out without any satisfaction even though you may have scored a quick fire 50 or a 100 - its still a hookie. Like your Sachin Tendulkar says: "even if I score a hundred and, if my country looses, then I am not happy and satisfied." So, the words coming forth from the mouth of God has any significance to you or, you think its all crap?" - Still trying to figure out what that means. Hilarious!

    Insightful post. All authors have been concentrating on IPL vs Test Cricket, forgetting the atrocity being perpetrated by the boards on the ICL players.

  • Charles on March 8, 2008, 20:04 GMT

    I do not care about these leagues. what I care about is the bullying tactics of the BCCI on the other cricket boards. THe english season will be much worse because of this pathetic organization- why should our players be banned because Mr Modi the idiot demands that we ban them - they have a job let them do it unhindered- it is time that people stood up to the bullying of the BCCI. International cricket is more important than this Indian minor league rubbish - and after that First Class cricket. The English season is totally authorized - why should we change just to accomodate some people in India? You have a season there- have your stupid leagues then, leave our season alone, and stop trying to ban players for playing Cricket.

  • Sillypointer on March 8, 2008, 19:48 GMT

    National and international Cricket as we know it today is played under the governance of each country's cricket boards, BCCI for India, PCB for Pak, Cricket Australia for Aus, ECB for England, etc. These are the governing bodies of cricket in their respective countries. When Pakistan plays Australia, it is actually the players employed by PCB playing players employed by Cricket Australia. ICL is an unrecognized league that is a competition to these boards. To suggest that these boards should allow these Cricketers to play in ICL and still represent their countries through their respective boards is ludicrous - as laughable as expecting your employer to allow you to work for your competition and still retain your employment with their company. No one is stopping players from joining ICL. By doing so, they are just relinquishing employment with their respective boards and joining the competition. If ICL grows and becomes popular, they are welcome to host their own internationals.

  • Nipun on March 8, 2008, 19:20 GMT

    very good post Mr. Abbasi.

    I agree 100%.

    Shane Bond, I salute you for your stance for not letting power nor money change your word.

  • Manas on March 8, 2008, 18:42 GMT

    Why should cricket board's dictate the players which league to join? Well, may be because it's the boards' money that has gone into grooming these players. May be because the board has given these players an environment (read "domestic cricket") which has made them what they are today. May be because, if these players want to be selected in future to play for their board (yeah, that's what they do. they don't play for their country), then the board has the right to determine which competitions it can consider when selecting a player. ICL folks have zero contributions to cricket so far. They have no right to steal players away from boards. Where as IPL is not much better, they should make a small change to their contracts, which would allow the other boards to get a certain percentage from their players pay. I think this is the right way forward.

  • sameen on March 8, 2008, 17:16 GMT

    We were supposed to be talking about the ICL and IPL not indian cricket. Good for them they beat australia in australia. I agree with Kamran Abbasi and feel that the whole IPL and ICL thing is distracting the players from playing for there own country. Country should be the first priority because no league will take any player who has not performed and come into the international circuit for there country so partiot or no patriot country should be first priority. Wheras banning players from playing the ICL is riduculous.

  • gobra_ka_dobra on March 8, 2008, 15:08 GMT

    The ICL and IPL has distracted the players and the cricket fans and, some bloggers here have distracted the course of the subject matter and dragged this debate into something else. For the guy who is a so-called Muslim and defending the splattering on religious grounds, my advise to him is to keep his holier than cow attitude for some rainy day, because you are not aware that it is not just religious but scientific reason to do that, and the guy who highlighted the point earlier used it as an expression but, may not be knowing the benefits of gobra power. The sprinkling and splattering has medicinal powers as it is mixed with water and lime powder and then sprayed in front of the houses to settle the dust and to kill the bacteria that is in front of the house and could creep in. If you guys don't know the gobra power then simply don't try to defend it with some religious excuse. You say its humble but you enjoy the steaks just as everyone else does, so don't demonstrate double standards here, stick to the subject rather than drifting from it. Now the IPL auction dust has settled, the Australians have discovered their net worth on Indian soil.

  • NA on March 8, 2008, 14:57 GMT

    In response to ROY FAN'S comment "meanwhile why not comment something on trying to arrange a safe cricket match in your country!!". I ask him, how many cricketers have been killed playing in Pakistan? and how many matches have been abandoned due to violence? I guess all the recent winnings are getting to the heads of Indians already.

  • Ab on March 8, 2008, 13:55 GMT

    What is the future of international cricket if theese private leagues are taking over? Are they trying to amke the cricket version of the premership where international palyers play for Indian cities and money becomes before loyalty.

    In my opinion the ICL was a waste of time and hardly noticed. However the IPL looks to take the cricket world by storm as I look forward to the 40 day competetion.

  • Shovan Das on March 8, 2008, 13:30 GMT

    If the ICL / IPL format was so bad, why would world class players agree to play in these leagues ? Now we hear a " pure Pakistani " team - the Lahore Badshahs ( Good Name ) are going to play in the ICL led by none other than Inzamam-ul-Haque with players left out by the PCB. It is your Pakistani players coming to revive their fortunes including the great Shoaib Akhtar. Instead of criticising every thing " Indian ", ask these Pakistani players why they wish to join these leagues. And not the least - they are welcome to play in India and we also welcome them ! Sour grapes is it ?

  • the wiseone on March 8, 2008, 13:25 GMT

    Hit the nail on the head. Key words: Cartel, cash cow, monopolistic. Definitely no noble intentions, both the ICL and the IPL. Mark my words. In a year or two the leagues will 'merge creating a larger league. For the larger good? Debatable. It is change but is it necessary. Only cricket has so many formats. If they can co-exist, great! But to disallow a player from playing in one, because he plays in the other, rooobish! Guys, this isn't about India or Pakistan, its about cricket. If these T20 leagues generate more money and Test cricket becomes a net loss, then economic factors will dictate the demise of the long form of the game. Traditionalists that love the 'spirit' and 'classicism' of the game might want to step into the 21st. century. The new fan does not care and he is speaking with his wallet!

  • Cellinis on March 8, 2008, 13:17 GMT

    Both leagues have one thing in common - both are supported by billionaires. It is great, expect that Indian billionaires have been manufactured by two things: 1. Inflated stock prices. 2. Inflated real estate prices.

    I remember two instances in the past where this had been done. Japan and the States - let's hope that India isn't bought to ground too.

    Back to cricket, why there hasn't been a lawsuit against BCCI/IPL is beyond me. The lack of action by the Monopoly regulation committee is equally astonshing. Maybe all readers of cricinfo.com should donate a dollar and hire a schyster lawyer - because when I watch NZ take on England without Bond, it is bloody boring.

  • Ishaan on March 8, 2008, 13:10 GMT

    First Osman, Then Kamran? Why is it that Pakistani people love to hate evrything Inidan? Mush callls our nuke progress a fake and you two seem to seethingly hate the fact that 50 years ago, a country which meant 'blody slaves' in English is making mooolah like crazy? Face it guys, Indias the best at whatever they do. Go do yor own PPL , people will come to 'PP' at your grounds! INDIA ROCKS AT CRICKET! JAY BHARAT MATA KI JAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Tahir Khan on March 8, 2008, 13:07 GMT

    Why is the ICL not accepted as legal, cricketers are getting a lot of money that is wonderful but to assume that it will take the Indian cricket to great heights may be true it may not be, afteall England and Spain have gret football leagues, how many times have England or Spain won Footbal cup or European cup, as far as Pakistani players are concerned good players will still come up only because of their passion for the game, those who came up in the past were not the production of the system, they were just pure talant just as it comes out in Latin America or Africa in footbal, I am not anti IPL but I am anti BCCI, that is only because they are influencing other boards for punishing their players if they take part in ICL, it is clearly against the spirit of cricket or the principals of free market, as a matter of fact there should be a final between the winner of both leagues people like Shane Bond or Razak should not be lost, competion between 2 leagues will bring more improvement.

  • venki3v on March 8, 2008, 13:06 GMT

    There is nothing wrong in BCCI, ICC, IPL and other cricke boards banning players who are participating in ICL. Most of the players contract boards for a year and players are employees of the board's for a year.In any country you cannot work for two employees at the same time. This is the accepted corporate culture among all employers and why you guys expect ICC,IPL and BCCI to be different. The only thing that can be done here after one's contract is over for a year a player should be freely allowed to choose another league next year. Pakistan board is begging BCCI to play couple of one day matches in the absence of australian so that pakistan cricket stay above water financially, but sadly pakistan fans have the audacity to ridicule BCCI,India and IPL. Sorry pakistani cricket fans you cannot command generosity from BCCI you got to beg for it

  • shashank on March 8, 2008, 12:12 GMT

    First let us wait and watch this edition of IPL. I do believe that the ICC would like to have an intercontinental champions league, and the IPL is just the beginning. The BCCI being the board with more resources it seems sensible to start in India, as losses can be minimised if things do not work. A professional sport needs a proper league to sustain itself, unfortunately domestic cricket in most countries is just not offering enough either to players or spectators. So I think it is good to have these leagues. We may one day have a Champions league final in Shanghai : Karachi warriors V Delhi jets... I do agree that players should have freedom in choosing where they want to play. Also I do agree that the money is obscene for a country like India. But I do think after a few seasons things will rationalise, but every boom creates a few rich men, now it is the turn of cricketers to get rich.

  • Vikas on March 8, 2008, 10:39 GMT

    Javed Khan(Montreal) waits until an eternity for Kamran Abbasi's blog to appear and pounces on it with a vengeance accompanied with a million swear words and prose filled with exces verbosity and wordage.He wants others to know what a pathetic writer he is deserving no less than a 1000 sympathies.Kamran Abbasi has written a wonderful piece of analysis which is neutral in its critique and presents an enlightening viewpoint.

  • Sultan Akhtar Patel on March 8, 2008, 6:16 GMT

    I think there is someting systemically wrong with Kamran Abbasi like 'Grapes' story! Precisely, Indian cricket is booming with the bonanaza followed by their recents wins. On the other side of the fence, once popular Pakis are simply lanuguishing with the folded hands to see the fruition of Australian tour somehow! PCB lost its total control and impact in the international cricket for the only reason that it is cash-strapped. In order for the game to flourish and have some say in the international arena, PCB must arrange some quick-fix 20-20 tournament (round-off) both for the national team and the Under-19.That way, PCB's coffer will have some moolah and they would be able to maintain their image and help the players in tandem. There has to be some revolutionary write-up of this sequence ought to have come from Abbasi.

  • Faridoon on March 8, 2008, 6:11 GMT

    Wow Kamran, I don't think you ever incited so many replies from Indians. That may have been a good thing had they stayed relevant to the subject; the subject was lost from the very 2nd comment from R Khanna.

    Yes you've won the t20 world cup (old news) and now you've beaten Australia, well done, bravo. Now let me remind you that we are discussing the IPL and ICL.

    It is rather sad that professional cricketers are penalised for playing cricket. Whereas there are no problems if a cricketer wants to star in movies or adviertisements. How absurd!

    The BCCI has become a beast so intoxicated with power that it can demand anything of anyone. I'm sure they've advised all cricketing nations that the ICL is a rogue league and that they mustn't allow their players to participate without suffering consequences.

    The ICC should just move its headquarters from Dubai to Mumbai. There, they can be re-named as the Department of International Cricket Affairs and officially report to the BCCI!

  • Peter Della Penna on March 8, 2008, 6:08 GMT

    It's about time someone called a spade a spade on the battle between IPL and ICL.

    This would never be allowed to happen in America as it is a blatant violation of anti-trust laws and fair competition. The shocking thing is that the BCCI has essentially ruled on behalf of every other country's board as to whether or not that country's respective player's can represent their own country if they play in league that opposes a domestic competition within India. Imagine a "rebel" league opposing County cricket in England and the ECB then instructs all the other cricket boards to ban players entering this "rebel" league. Would the ECB say, "If Michael Hussey joins the rebel team in Liverpool, then Cricket Australia must ban him from being selected for Australia." The BCCI is enforcing laws where they have no jurisdiction. If they want to ban Indians for joining the ICL, then fine, but they should have absolutely no right to influence decisions on players from other countries ala Shane Bond.

  • Madan on March 8, 2008, 5:52 GMT

    Aw, come on guys, the BCCI is wrong to ban players from joining the ICL and then to arm-twist other boards into doing the same, we have lost the chance to watch Shane Bond because of the BCCI alone. Don't condemn the author's views blindly just because he is a Pakistani. Yes, some of the sentiments emanating from Pakistan, especially Miandad whining that India have never helped their cause is very amusing. Yeah, right, big help he and his ilk have been to us all this years. But that is no reason to crucify Mr.Kamran for expressing his views. I disagree that the money and celebrities involved necessarily makes the IPL ugly but this IPL-ICL tussle must be sorted out else cricket will fall on gloomy times.

  • splatter and unload cow manure?? on March 8, 2008, 5:11 GMT

    Dear Javed Khan by using this language against an Indian cricket fan, you have made me,a Muslim and a Pakistani,very ashamed.I am sorry you are very far from the teachings of Quran and Holy Prophet Muhammad.Right or wrong cow is a holy animal for Hindus and off course I dont parctice their religion, but Islam teaches us to respect people of other religion.What a shame,you have learnt nothing in Canada!! May I suggest that in order to prove your point you dont have to stoop so low.Hope you understand.

  • Saad Hussain (London) on March 8, 2008, 5:04 GMT

    Some people can be so immature. Anyway, let these players earn a bit of money whilst they still have the ability. Sportsmen don't have a very long career so make the most of it.

    I hate the cricket boards for banning the players. Bond & Sami will take alot of wickets as the ICL players are very poor in the batting department and can't play anything around 80mph

  • Philip John Joseph on March 8, 2008, 2:05 GMT

    Karan:

    Actually, don't assume that I am your average Indian hypocrite. I may be Indian, but I'm not half as hypocritical as an Indian would normally be expected to be. I don't watch BCCI Ranji trophy rubbish, and the only BCCI matches I would watch are ODI's involving the India "national" BCCI team. That said, given the disgusting behaviour of the BCCI towards the ICL I may even stop watching "India" ODIs. I am NOT a fan of T20, so you won't catch me watching either the IPL or the ICL. Did I just destroy your "hypocrisy" argument? Is that the best you could come up with after I denied you your "jealousy" argument? So it's either "hypocrisy" or "jealousy", right? Do you want to talk facts or talk about "hypocrisy" and "jealousy"? You continue to cling desperately to your "jealousy" argument by insisting that I am the leader of the jealous. I don't accuse people of jealousy, I stick to the facts. Why don't you try that for a change? Tiger Woods is American and forget the NBA's past.

  • Dicky Jack on March 7, 2008, 22:21 GMT

    Mate, the current Pakistan team can be rated as a "B" grade team. If you want to boycott playing with us, you will do CA and aussies a favor. We will invite IN, SA, NZ for a T20/20 tournament and enjoy it. Your team has no chance in this format, and in aussies pitches. So relax mate.

  • Martin Hook on March 7, 2008, 14:42 GMT

    Pakistan cricket needs both ICL and IPL to survive. The domestic cricket in Pakistan is in ruins and the money and infrastructure provided by ICL and IPL could be the last hope of training talented pakistani cricketers of next generation. Otherwise things are begining to look very gloomy for them.

  • Thomas cook on March 7, 2008, 11:07 GMT

    Javed Khan from montreal himself is surviving on EI from Quebec govt and feels sorry for 350 million homeless. What a hyperbolic sympathetic farce?

  • Rahim Khan from Hyderabad/montreal on March 7, 2008, 11:02 GMT

    Looks like the low auction value of Pakistani players in IPL seems to have hurt the sentiments really bad of Paki bloggers . Already the threat of Australia wanting to call of the Pakistan tour for genuine security reasons had already made many grumble as was evident in previous Pakspin blog. I guess most Pakistanis are having a hard time accepting the fact that Pakistan figures very down in ratings in terms of financial might in cricket,performance rating of Paki team on the field , team popularity in world and low value placed on Pakistani players and lack of interest of most cricketing nations in visiting Pakistan for ODI/Test series . If Pakistani players had got auctioned off at hefty prices ,everyone here would have been praising IPL. Along with this fact that a couple of good Pakisani players hve chosen to go for ICL or IPL , putting money above patriotic sentiments seems to have irked most Pakis. Get a hold Pakis, and accept the truth as it is.

  • Karan on March 7, 2008, 10:54 GMT

    Philip joseph, I amused to see your comments. I see you call yourself Indian in one of the posts above and wonder if you actually are one ? Get off your high horse. You are questioning others on jealousy where as you seem to be one of the leaders of that pack. For no reason you are the one mentioning that Av pay of NBA player is 2mn or mentioning the wealth of Mukesh Ambani. Why are you so stuck up ??? Even if Dhoni does not make as much as the av NBA pay today, ask those NBA guys what was their pay when NBA started ??? That way an NBA player would not make anything close to Tiger woods ! so whats your point ? If you feel that BCCI is garbage and IPL is not worth it then please dont watch it. The same goes to all of you guys running the leagues down, please dont watch it, no one forces you. If you think low of IPL/ICL then think of all your players who are begging to play in these leagues. what does that make them ? Only time will tell if IPL is a success or not. Lets wait n enjoy.

  • Philip John Joseph on March 7, 2008, 9:38 GMT

    To Chris:

    You make some excellent points and I do essentially agree with you. Only time will tell if the IPL is viable, especially since it hasn't even run it's first season. That said, the ICL claims that it's own first season was a success; which, if true, suggests that the IPL should be a success for at least the first two or three seasons methinks. Beyond that is anyone's guess because one cannot be sure that Indians will take to the idea of club/franchise based cricket. Looks good for now, but will it last?

    Apropos your discussion of the Premiership, I feel that many in England are unfairly blaming the Premiership for their woes. To me the choice is clear. Would you rather have the best or at least richest league in the world of football in England or somewhere else, say Italy? There's no doubt in my mind that England is better off having the best or at least richest league in the world of football than allowing say Italy to have it. England's problem is at the grassroots.

  • Chris on March 7, 2008, 6:32 GMT

    Well, until the IPL actually concludes this year we won't know if it will be a success or failure (and I suspect we still won't know for a couple months after when every aspect of the tournament has been analysed or over-analysed). However, I would caution those who dream of the IPL becoming like the EPL. The EPL (or BPL since the sponsor is now Barclay's) is a greater money generator for the Football Assocation (English football's governing body) and it also attracts and moulds stars to an extent. However, most of these stars aren't English and will never play for England. Many people argue that it isn't the Premier League's fault or the fault of so many non-nationals in the League, but it is plain that the lack of English players in the League has partly contributed to England's so-so performance in football. Let's hope the IPL doesn't go down that route and that the BCCI won't let greed blind it to local player development.

  • Karan on March 7, 2008, 5:19 GMT

    Mr.Javed Khan, generally I am not the one to get into tu-tu main-main specially on the net. You can continue with your dialogue with Mr.Khanna but what pisses me off is your shallow mentality and not give credit where it is due. The fact is that we have beaten the Aussies and are currently a very good team. Even the Aussies (players, former greats and media) have acknowledged that we are the only competition to them. We have played 5 ODIs with them and have beaten them in 3 and that too in Aus. We all know how close the test series was and keeping sydney aside the result would have been diff. I dont remember aus loosing or drawing a test while playing in Aus recently (last it was again India in 2003). Comparing our team with that of england is silly. Just thank the militant outfits if aussies chicken out of coming to Pakistan, coz if they do then they have excellent chance of winning the series specially now that they have a point to prove. Remember that its always Respect for Respect.

  • Philip John Joseph on March 7, 2008, 4:44 GMT

    Okay, can someone please explain to me why Indians keep accusing people of being jealous? Like didn't Murali, who is a Tamilian and therefore very close to being Indian, didn't Murali accuse Warne of being jealous of Murali? That's a laugh. If religion allowed one to bet, I would bet my life on Warne being incapable of any kind of jealousy regarding Murali. All these Indians who invoke the jealousy argument are really making themselves look like monster fools. Actually, I have a theory about why this jealousy argument is so popular in India, but I don't think the contents of my theory would be appropriate for this forum. Hopefully Indians will one day grow out of this whole immature jealousy argument stage. Finally, for all those Indians who have misunderstood me, let me restate in baby concepts. I SUPPORT the free market. I SUPPORT the IPL and the ICL slugging it out to the DETRIMENT of world cricket. That does NOT however blind me to the fact that the BCCI is corrupt garbage.

  • Martin Hook on March 7, 2008, 3:42 GMT

    Javed Khan, for once why don't you debate the argument, instead of attcking the author/writer in an incoherent maniac psychobabble that goes your comments. Could it be that you don't have any logical arguments. In your last post you were still trying to convince yourself that Shahid Afridi is only 16 and has great future ahead of him. Wake Up !!

  • Awas on March 6, 2008, 23:51 GMT

    Yes “I am totally agree” here Kamran. But my take on these two L’s is slightly different.

    No matter how many stars you have in this competition, unless countries are playing against countries, the players do not have the same passion and neither can you have a large fan following. I can give two examples here.

    In the English county scene, for example, there are a number of international stars from all over the world but the grounds are often empty at county games.

    The other example is world champions playing all star rest of the world eleven. We all know what happened in the last such match. It was almost a non-event and a total damp squib.

    The only sport where there is a lot of following at non-national level is football. English football is one such example. Clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man United have a lot of local fan base, besides international support. There is a reason for that. These clubs have been established for centuries. These fans are very territorial and have local affinity to mainly the club and the ground itself. They have a rivalry against other clubs. It’s like having many little countries within a country. The concept is totally different. A local fan of Bolton Wanderers would remain a die hard fan of his club no matter how pathetic that club is in terms of winning.

    Although county cricket has a similar setup but they have a very little following, not a mass following like football. I cannot see how IPL can generate so much allegiance within a short span of time. Once the novelty is worn off, the crowd level will fade away because of lack of national fervour.

    Rajendra Khanna You are completely off rails here. You jumped to comment strait away here but on something completely different. Didn’t you get any khana from your mummy today? The hunger is affecting your senses.

    ROY FAN So, who stepped on your tail? “Safe cricket match”? Didn’t you get enough dose already on this subject from the previous thread along with some of your pansy Aussi mates? Let’s move on and stop rabitting.

    Philip John Joseph There is a lot of sense in your comments.

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 6, 2008, 23:50 GMT

    The ICL is already a flop project, it has no wings, only a desire to fly. The IPL has been boosted with some expensive imported jet turbine engines to fly, but the kinda drag that it carries is bound to crash, its only a matter of time. IMO, it is Cricket's Aeolipile, it will take ages to develop it into a commercial fighting machine, or may be when they will make it a "League of Nations," that will compete against other nations. The difference between the two leagues is, one is blessed by the ICC Baba and the other is not. And, Mukund we are not talking about Passion Fruit or The Passion of Christ movie, we are talking about Passion or Emotions that are involved in sports, where the participants have an intense desire to win and that cannot be bought by money. You may go to a Bawdy House and get Martin Hookerrrrr and come out without any satisfaction even though you may have scored a quick fire 50 or a 100 - its still a hookie. Like your Sachin Tendulkar says: "even if I score a hundred and, if my country looses, then I am not happy and satisfied." So, the words coming forth from the mouth of God has any significance to you or, you think its all crap?

  • ajith on March 6, 2008, 22:58 GMT

    Philip John Joseph, the average salary of an NBA player has already passed 2 million dollars. Dhoni is getting less than the NBA average and he is the highest paid in the IPL.....

    ever heard of PPP - Purhcasing Power Parity...pls google it..

  • Mukund on March 6, 2008, 22:06 GMT

    I am unable to understand all the noise about IPL. If it is a bad idea, and if the product it delivers is shoddy, people wont buy it. And next year's auction will be far less interesting than this year's. So, the market, read the cricket watching public of India and the countries that have bought the TV rights, will decide.

    Its a shame that everybody has to pick on the IPL. Its a cricket league offering money - and no player was forced to play in it.

    All other discussions about passion, how it wont be good, how it is not relevant, how it is likely to engender greed - is all well & good. But utterly useless.

  • M. Y. Kasim, Houston, Tx. USA on March 6, 2008, 21:44 GMT

    I dont see anything wrong in ICL or IPL. In fact, average cricketers from several countries will benefit by playing with and against many retired super-stars of the games like Lara, McGrath, Warne Inzi etc.

    Look back at Packer circus, good players became super-stars by playing aginst each others. Lillee, Thomson, Chapple Brothers, Walters, the whole West Indian team and several Pakistanis to name a few.

    And above all, whats wrong if the players get some extra bucks?

  • Andy on March 6, 2008, 20:44 GMT

    The IPL and its essentially failed counterpart the ICL are the best demonstrations of how celebrity culture can undermine the very heart of institutions such as cricket for the sake of soothing the capitalist notion of making gratuitous amounts of money for the sake of making gratuitous amounts of money and that the ICC has embraced one and rejected the other is a demonstration of how far the ICC has fallen from its real duties at the head of global cricket as well as demonstrating how partisan politics now dominate the institution itself. Its scary how much money has already been invested in either project when one compares it to the total budget the ICC has set aside for growing cricket outside the test world, and essentially preserving a long term future for cricket.

  • Philip John Joseph on March 6, 2008, 19:34 GMT

    ROY FAN:

    Which footballers are you talking about? Are you talking about the Premiership footballers? Are you talking about the top-paid footballers in the world? If you think cricket can even remotely approach the popularity and wealth of football, you are living in a fool's paradise. Do you really think that 1.2 billion people in a poverty stricken country like India is enough to take on the population base of football which is established in some of the richest countries in the world? Goldman Sachs has stated that even with the best case scenario, it will take until 2035 for the Indian economy to overtake the Japanese economy at proper market exchange rates, and not silly immature PPP exchange rates. You think that India, the BCCI and the IPL can compete with football? In your wildest dreams, MAYBE, but even then it would be a mirage. Like I said before, the AVERAGE salary of an NBA player is over 2 million dollars, more than Dhoni who is the HIGHEST paid in the IPL.

  • theossa, Pittsburgh, U.S.A. on March 6, 2008, 18:51 GMT

    n the world of capitalism I think IPL is a smart business move, the success of which is yet to be seen. All sports are based on national or regional pride and they cash in on that so when there was no IPL and ICL, ICC was still making money of you and me. It’s just that they want more and few more players jumped in like businessmen and celebrities. Look fellas, to put it very simple it’s just supply and demand; there was a void and business opportunity and was filled and taken accordingly. I also don’t blame ICC and cricket boards going after ICL in every possible way, each sports governing body does that. I’m a big fan of American Football and don’t miss any game of my home team Pittsburgh Steelers. American football is governed by NFL and if a player uses a towel that is not approved by NFL to wipe sweat, he is fined thousands of dollars. Like it or not in a corporate world, cricket is no exception. Let’s take a reality check, in countries like U.S. there is no place for ODIs and test cricket and only Twenty20 may have a shot. Similarly, in future if fans prefer Twenty20 over ODIs and tests (I hope not) who are we to judge which form or make they should be watching. I can’t say that if it will hurt cricket or benefit cricket, only time will tell but I understand why IPL and ICL feel overwhelming because every change does.

  • TTU on March 6, 2008, 18:50 GMT

    Neither ICL or IPL will be good for cricket because of the fact that like andrew symonds, many players will choose the IPLs over inflated and over invested salarys over playing for there country. Another viewpoint is that how will playing in basically a mockery of cricket help international sides in there bid to become top, the only team who will gain anything is India, as there u-22 players will gain invaluable experience playing with some of the worlds best. It gives India a head start in there quest to become world champions, but my question is where does this leave other intertnational teams, when throughout the year there players will be playing in a tournament were the only gain is financial? Also a word on the Australian and Pakistani series: Perhaps the Aussies are not wanting to tour after realising the dangers of playing a pakistan side who wants to prove something and are playing at home. Australia are rebulding and it may well be that Pakistan could beat them.

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 6, 2008, 18:07 GMT

    Hey Rajendra Kumar and Rajesh Khanna's cross, why are you cross at me? This seems to be a premeditated comment from you as if you were waiting for Kamran Abbassi to write a new thread and you will splatter and unload your cow manure, just like you do it in front of your dwellings every morning. We all know how close the T20 final was and we also know how big a margin was in the home concluded ODI series against Pakistan. And by winning two straight matches in the final at the CB series does not make India a super team. Remember last year England after loosing the Ashes series in Australia defeated them in the VB series final in a similar fashion. Did that achievement made England the greatest team? Look at what's happening to them since then. We all knew that people like you would be gyrating their arse after this victory. You know what? Perhaps the Australians have done this on purpose, its a deliberate ruse from them to make the Indians happy especially after a sour tour which was marred by so many unpleasant incidents and controversies and, the next thing they have to do is to play the IPL matches in India. Roy Fan, you sound like the same Sachin Fan. Why are you so obsessed with fixing a fan in the rear and make yourself look like an Exhaust Fan? Can't you find something better than a fan? PJ Joseph, to endorse your point, I feel sorry for the 350 million homeless.

  • Muhammad Asif on March 6, 2008, 16:27 GMT

    The money can't ruin the game. Its the rules which ruins or develops a game. We should not divert our intentions by the distractions "money". The beauty of the game was the expression of bowler, batsman or a fielder to show his skills freely in order to entertain the cricket which in return entertain both the spectators & players. But now the rules have snatched that beauty. Its becoming more of baseball than cricket. Think over it.

    "Kawa chala hans ki chaal"

  • Martin Hook on March 6, 2008, 15:36 GMT

    IPL and ICL are here to stay. Things change and life goes forward. I think Javed Khan and Kamran are mostly worried about the day when a kid in karachi would be growing up dreaming about playing in IPL rather than serving his country. But, that is how it is going to be. Javed Khan's jingoistic 70's nationalism would be three generations old and a thing of the past.

  • khansahab786@gmail.com on March 6, 2008, 14:37 GMT

    Sir, I liked the title of this thread. It reminded me of the hilarious Indian movie "Shaadi sey pehley" where Anupam Kher keeps on saying, "Oye what the hell!" Anyway, I would like to post an excerpt from an article which I wrote on my blog: “Recently Andrew Symonds made a point about the difficult issue of "loyalty vs money." BCCI is the richest cricket board in the world which has already created problems for cricket boards for countries like England and Australia, and now the world also has to contend with ICL and IPL. Money means a lot of things to a lot of people. Playing in the IPL provides the players with an opportunity to earn enviable amounts of cash, like never before. Players have started being auctioned. This has never been witnessed in cricket, on such a scale anyway. What is the future of international cricket? Is the time looming where private leagues will be able to afford more money than the ICC? Will the most talented and prolific players draw themselves rigidly to private leagues and ignore national cricket boards? What ramifications does this have on the competitiveness of international cricket?”

  • cleansweep on March 6, 2008, 14:25 GMT

    Ya here you are dont want to change with the changing time.First of all you should be happy that the sport for which you think and wright so much is evolving,it is becoming multidimensional and giving shelter to more cricketers,whether they are pakistanis or aussies it doesnt matter..Only thing is that they should love sport with pure heart..If you really did that than you shouldn't have had any regrets about these leagues.

  • anand on March 6, 2008, 13:15 GMT

    It is skeptical of you to ooze such pessimism. Everybody in the world needs money. And there is no harm in cricketers being auctioned. Its pretty simple Kamran, if you have it, then flaunt it. There is no doubt that cricket has become hugely commercialized with money pouring from all over. So what!! Bask in the glory. Everybody is getting benefits...crickets milking money(there is nothing wrong in it)...Viewers enjoying nice cricket...broadcasters earning money from advertisers...advertisers publicizing their products.....there is no looser buddy except a few who dont see any good in any thing. Dont forget that in ICL/IPL the ultimate protagonist is cricket, and whosoever will be playing better cricket, will be king. Its all competition and will boost the level of cricket. Look at club football and compare the level of football being played out there. Spread peace......Cheerz

  • Karan on March 6, 2008, 10:24 GMT

    Even when EPL or La liga would have started, there would have been many people like you and Philip Joseph who would have been only negative. I feel that these leagues are good for the game (only ICL should compete on even footing) as they are a great opportunity. Making money is not a sin for anyone. Also I feel that the franchises run by the business men will be more professional than any of the boards. Its an amalgamation of talent, coaching skills and done at a professional level. Lastly all I can say is that in India (i am sure it is in pakistan too) cricket was never seen by 99% people as a possible career option. Only a few played & made money. Now these leagues are opportunity to see cricket as a career which pays you well. I feel people who are speaking against IPL/ICL are a bit jealous (maybe). All I can say is that lets wait few years and then pass judgements. BCCI will share IPL money with other sports in India and other cricket boards, which is again good for the game.

  • Robert on March 6, 2008, 10:16 GMT

    Um... could this be a case of sour grapes from the Pakistanis as they didn't think of it first/couldn't afford it?

    Did the champions league football kill European leagues? If anything it has become a real breeding ground for talent EVERYWHERE.

    Like it or not, all sport is business now. And why not make it as lucrative as possible for all involved? People seem hung up on the money aspect. But I assure you, should someone offer me silly amounts of cash for my services, I'd be a fool to turn them down. So would ANYONE else.

  • Karan on March 6, 2008, 10:10 GMT

    I agree with you but only partly. The part where you say there should be no restriction on ICL is true. Infact ICL should compete with IPL and no one should be banned for playing in ICL. But when you say that IPL will ruin the game then you are totally wrong. You improve when you play and compete with the best. It gives a great chance to youngsters in the world to play with the best. IPL clearly states that 4 players should be below 22 and certain players should be from local area. If the under 19 players play with the likes of warne, shoaib, sachin etc only then they will learn and show their true potential. Why are we people so pesimistic and why cant we look at the positives ? It is entertaining, has some great talents playing and the game is making money which eventually will go back to the game. So what is the harm ? ICL is making stadiums, IPL franchises are planning academies for fresh talent. Or are you just critial because it is a BCCI event taking place in India ??

  • Mabsoos Ahmad on March 6, 2008, 8:49 GMT

    Yes Kamran sb, IPL & ICL will ruin the cricket since the charm will go away. It is not for the promotion of cricket but you rightly say, milking and sucking money of the people. If they care of the cricket why the hell, restriction. Cricket has no boundry then why the Boards are restricting the cricketer not to play in ICL. Let them decide where to play. ICC is a council without head and mind. Money has been a driving force. Cricket will loose its amusement and at time we were saying that it is a game of gentleman. But now a days it has been a game of money. The cricketers are being auctioned, what a shame! For cricketers there is no harm to earn money and they are cashing it. Generally speaking, IPL & ICL will destroy the cricket. Let cricket be a passion and fun. But the Boards of all the cricket playing nations have made it place of money. They are extracting money out of poor people. Let us raise our voice against this "cricket business". Let cricket for the people, by the people..

  • Philip John Joseph on March 6, 2008, 7:53 GMT

    Have to agree with you Kamran, that this whole IPL thing is pure rubbish. What's really sad is that us Indians think we have hit the big time. As I mentioned to Mukul, not sure if he is willing to publish that information, but here goes again; the average salary of an NBA player has already passed 2 million dollars. Dhoni is getting less than the NBA average and he is the highest paid in the IPL. Looks like us Indians are getting excited about nothing yet again. Remember that part about Mukesh Ambani being the richest man in the world? Well Forbes checked that nonsense out and found out that even with the assistance of the falsely inflated Indian stock market, Mukesh Ambani was still almost 20 billion dollars short of being the world's richest man. Can anyone say "Indians getting excited about nothing" or would that abbreviate to "IPL"? No wait, isn't it "IGEAN"? What I find really tragic is that us Indians think so highly of hiring cheapo Aussies for this IPL rubbish.

  • ROY FAN on March 6, 2008, 6:55 GMT

    yeah..and you kamran will eat your words in a few years...typical "sceptical pakistani" attitude to all things indian.. now that the format will come to australia ..will be much more fun..more money for our players..and thats good!! soon it will spread ..and earn more than those pansy footballers!!

    meanwhile why not comment something on trying to arrange a safe cricket match in your country!!

  • Rajendra Khanna on March 6, 2008, 6:48 GMT

    Hey Javed, India won the T20 World cup , won CB series by defeating Australia in Australia , Pakistan in ODI and Test Matches. But all I hear you saying for the last one year Pakistan is the better team than India. Pakistan has better bowlers but the never deliver. In your language the "lollypop" Indian bowlers have been winning matches consitently both in India and abroad, where as you fearsome talented Pakistani fast bowlers seem to be doing everything except taking wickets. Well about batters, the less said the better ;). Are you sulking buddy or are you gonna come up with some innovative reasons ,on how and why India is worse team than Pakistan. Oh I guess Pakistan won 5-0 recently against some worldclass team so they are still the best;)

  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 6, 2008, 4:30 GMT

    There you go Kamran, I was pestering you for quite sometime to write something on IPL and you finally did, you broke the silence, its a bit late because others have already spoken before you. But, its never too late, especially since you have spoken against these leagues in your own style and you aren't beating around the bush like a few others. Osman Samiuddin's article on the subject is simply splendiferous, unlike him you don't use any flowery language in your prose, or in your exposition. But, yours is a rare genre of writing through which you crystallize the point and even this time you've summed it up very well by calling spade, a spade. In your own persuasive style of writing, you always like to inform, explain, describe and define the subject and the meaning to your readers in a manner in which you have perceived it. Once again you have in fact, tried to persuade and convince your readers in one way or the other and you've made them agree to a certain extent and I am sure some of them would say Mr. Abbassi, "I am agree." I like the comment made khansahab in the other blog he was saying, "they could have made better use of these millions and millions of dollars for the promotion of cricket by spending it on academies, grounds, training and coaching facilities for the youth." Its true, instead of throwing away this money to ruin and corrupt the minds of the young players who have already started to show some attitude, they should have used the money like khansahab said. IMO, this IPL, ICL and "what the hell," is a fad, its a phase that will wear-off after sometime, because cricket when played for money and not with passion and emotions is not the same. You cannot have the same passion and emotions if you are not playing for your own country. Period !

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  • JAVED A KHAN, MONTREAL, CANADA on March 6, 2008, 4:30 GMT

    There you go Kamran, I was pestering you for quite sometime to write something on IPL and you finally did, you broke the silence, its a bit late because others have already spoken before you. But, its never too late, especially since you have spoken against these leagues in your own style and you aren't beating around the bush like a few others. Osman Samiuddin's article on the subject is simply splendiferous, unlike him you don't use any flowery language in your prose, or in your exposition. But, yours is a rare genre of writing through which you crystallize the point and even this time you've summed it up very well by calling spade, a spade. In your own persuasive style of writing, you always like to inform, explain, describe and define the subject and the meaning to your readers in a manner in which you have perceived it. Once again you have in fact, tried to persuade and convince your readers in one way or the other and you've made them agree to a certain extent and I am sure some of them would say Mr. Abbassi, "I am agree." I like the comment made khansahab in the other blog he was saying, "they could have made better use of these millions and millions of dollars for the promotion of cricket by spending it on academies, grounds, training and coaching facilities for the youth." Its true, instead of throwing away this money to ruin and corrupt the minds of the young players who have already started to show some attitude, they should have used the money like khansahab said. IMO, this IPL, ICL and "what the hell," is a fad, its a phase that will wear-off after sometime, because cricket when played for money and not with passion and emotions is not the same. You cannot have the same passion and emotions if you are not playing for your own country. Period !

  • Rajendra Khanna on March 6, 2008, 6:48 GMT

    Hey Javed, India won the T20 World cup , won CB series by defeating Australia in Australia , Pakistan in ODI and Test Matches. But all I hear you saying for the last one year Pakistan is the better team than India. Pakistan has better bowlers but the never deliver. In your language the "lollypop" Indian bowlers have been winning matches consitently both in India and abroad, where as you fearsome talented Pakistani fast bowlers seem to be doing everything except taking wickets. Well about batters, the less said the better ;). Are you sulking buddy or are you gonna come up with some innovative reasons ,on how and why India is worse team than Pakistan. Oh I guess Pakistan won 5-0 recently against some worldclass team so they are still the best;)

  • ROY FAN on March 6, 2008, 6:55 GMT

    yeah..and you kamran will eat your words in a few years...typical "sceptical pakistani" attitude to all things indian.. now that the format will come to australia ..will be much more fun..more money for our players..and thats good!! soon it will spread ..and earn more than those pansy footballers!!

    meanwhile why not comment something on trying to arrange a safe cricket match in your country!!

  • Philip John Joseph on March 6, 2008, 7:53 GMT

    Have to agree with you Kamran, that this whole IPL thing is pure rubbish. What's really sad is that us Indians think we have hit the big time. As I mentioned to Mukul, not sure if he is willing to publish that information, but here goes again; the average salary of an NBA player has already passed 2 million dollars. Dhoni is getting less than the NBA average and he is the highest paid in the IPL. Looks like us Indians are getting excited about nothing yet again. Remember that part about Mukesh Ambani being the richest man in the world? Well Forbes checked that nonsense out and found out that even with the assistance of the falsely inflated Indian stock market, Mukesh Ambani was still almost 20 billion dollars short of being the world's richest man. Can anyone say "Indians getting excited about nothing" or would that abbreviate to "IPL"? No wait, isn't it "IGEAN"? What I find really tragic is that us Indians think so highly of hiring cheapo Aussies for this IPL rubbish.

  • Mabsoos Ahmad on March 6, 2008, 8:49 GMT

    Yes Kamran sb, IPL & ICL will ruin the cricket since the charm will go away. It is not for the promotion of cricket but you rightly say, milking and sucking money of the people. If they care of the cricket why the hell, restriction. Cricket has no boundry then why the Boards are restricting the cricketer not to play in ICL. Let them decide where to play. ICC is a council without head and mind. Money has been a driving force. Cricket will loose its amusement and at time we were saying that it is a game of gentleman. But now a days it has been a game of money. The cricketers are being auctioned, what a shame! For cricketers there is no harm to earn money and they are cashing it. Generally speaking, IPL & ICL will destroy the cricket. Let cricket be a passion and fun. But the Boards of all the cricket playing nations have made it place of money. They are extracting money out of poor people. Let us raise our voice against this "cricket business". Let cricket for the people, by the people..

  • Karan on March 6, 2008, 10:10 GMT

    I agree with you but only partly. The part where you say there should be no restriction on ICL is true. Infact ICL should compete with IPL and no one should be banned for playing in ICL. But when you say that IPL will ruin the game then you are totally wrong. You improve when you play and compete with the best. It gives a great chance to youngsters in the world to play with the best. IPL clearly states that 4 players should be below 22 and certain players should be from local area. If the under 19 players play with the likes of warne, shoaib, sachin etc only then they will learn and show their true potential. Why are we people so pesimistic and why cant we look at the positives ? It is entertaining, has some great talents playing and the game is making money which eventually will go back to the game. So what is the harm ? ICL is making stadiums, IPL franchises are planning academies for fresh talent. Or are you just critial because it is a BCCI event taking place in India ??

  • Robert on March 6, 2008, 10:16 GMT

    Um... could this be a case of sour grapes from the Pakistanis as they didn't think of it first/couldn't afford it?

    Did the champions league football kill European leagues? If anything it has become a real breeding ground for talent EVERYWHERE.

    Like it or not, all sport is business now. And why not make it as lucrative as possible for all involved? People seem hung up on the money aspect. But I assure you, should someone offer me silly amounts of cash for my services, I'd be a fool to turn them down. So would ANYONE else.

  • Karan on March 6, 2008, 10:24 GMT

    Even when EPL or La liga would have started, there would have been many people like you and Philip Joseph who would have been only negative. I feel that these leagues are good for the game (only ICL should compete on even footing) as they are a great opportunity. Making money is not a sin for anyone. Also I feel that the franchises run by the business men will be more professional than any of the boards. Its an amalgamation of talent, coaching skills and done at a professional level. Lastly all I can say is that in India (i am sure it is in pakistan too) cricket was never seen by 99% people as a possible career option. Only a few played & made money. Now these leagues are opportunity to see cricket as a career which pays you well. I feel people who are speaking against IPL/ICL are a bit jealous (maybe). All I can say is that lets wait few years and then pass judgements. BCCI will share IPL money with other sports in India and other cricket boards, which is again good for the game.

  • anand on March 6, 2008, 13:15 GMT

    It is skeptical of you to ooze such pessimism. Everybody in the world needs money. And there is no harm in cricketers being auctioned. Its pretty simple Kamran, if you have it, then flaunt it. There is no doubt that cricket has become hugely commercialized with money pouring from all over. So what!! Bask in the glory. Everybody is getting benefits...crickets milking money(there is nothing wrong in it)...Viewers enjoying nice cricket...broadcasters earning money from advertisers...advertisers publicizing their products.....there is no looser buddy except a few who dont see any good in any thing. Dont forget that in ICL/IPL the ultimate protagonist is cricket, and whosoever will be playing better cricket, will be king. Its all competition and will boost the level of cricket. Look at club football and compare the level of football being played out there. Spread peace......Cheerz

  • cleansweep on March 6, 2008, 14:25 GMT

    Ya here you are dont want to change with the changing time.First of all you should be happy that the sport for which you think and wright so much is evolving,it is becoming multidimensional and giving shelter to more cricketers,whether they are pakistanis or aussies it doesnt matter..Only thing is that they should love sport with pure heart..If you really did that than you shouldn't have had any regrets about these leagues.