England news March 5, 2010

Vaughan frustrated with South African influx

Cricinfo staff
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Michael Vaughan, the former England captain, believes South Africa-born players should not be allowed to play for England. Vaughan was critical of the number of players being imported "for many, many years" and said he had "a bit of a problem" with South Africans changing nationalities to further their sporting careers.

"It's a very tricky one. Someone like Kevin Pietersen made the decision very early to come over to England and he learnt a lot of his cricket here," said Vaughan in comments reported in the Independent. "[But] I do have a problem when the likes of Jonathan Trott [play for England], and [Craig] Kieswetter, who's played for the South African Under-19s. I think in Trott's case even played for the South African A team. Now that is where I have a problem, that we have almost got a 'ship-in' system of looking at talent, and a lot of them come over for the money.

"It's very, very difficult to stop them. I would like to see, in an ideal world, 11 complete Englishmen in the team but I don't think that's ever going to be the case."

Kieswetter's rapid promotion to the England one-day side has again thrown the spotlight on the number of South Africans in the set-up and, despite suggestions from national selector Geoff Miller that it is an issue they are watching, he is unlikely to be the last.

"It's something that I'm going to have to put up with for my whole career, but I was born with a British passport, I've done my four years, I am British, and I don't see it as an issue," said Kieswetter after he scored 107 in the final ODI against Bangladesh. "Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but for me it's about putting performances in on the park and helping England win."

In his autobiography, Time to Declare, Vaughan had accused the Cape Town-born Trott of celebrating with South Africa's players after England lost at Edgbaston in 2008.

Ian Botham, however, said he was fine with the number of imports. "These guys have made their home here to play for England and I don't have a problem with that. The biggest problem for me in England is Kolpak, and that's down to European law. What the Europeans have got to do with it, I don't know. They don't like cricket."

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • BOROMAT on March 12, 2010, 14:10 GMT

    English players in the England team what a crazy idea.Vaughany is a legend.

  • joel1992 on March 10, 2010, 6:24 GMT

    I believe Michael Vaughan is a racist racist.

  • vigi101929 on March 9, 2010, 20:54 GMT

    yes of course u can see 11 English players in the field , for the U.S team of course.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha..........!!!!!!!!!!!

  • bumsonseats on March 8, 2010, 20:11 GMT

    i think in all the mentioned cricketers cases the one abiding thing is they have either, a mother or father or both, who were born in the uk. in any sport if a parent is from that country then they are enigible within the rules of that govening body. unlike in the 80s were kepler wessels decided he was australian and the australian cricket board were in agreement. in stronghold rugby union/league countries namely new zealand and australia the number of southsea islanders who become named in their teams after what seems months of living there. so if a guy whatever reason whats to live and play sports in the uk and wants to wait the 4/5 years that it takes good luck to them. dpk

  • Bengali-Tiger007 on March 8, 2010, 2:25 GMT

    Sorry guys, I just read this article and some of your comments just now. I really think that south africa don't actually need trott or keiswetter because they have plenty of talents already. But however, I'm not convinced that England don't have any home bred talents, surely there must be talents waiting to be discovered somewhere out there, maybe even in London? If you think about it, the Bangladeshi captain Shakib Al Hasan was a football fanatic and he use to eat, sleep and drink football day in day out. After abit of cricket introduction to him in his teenage, he is now a cricketer. World no1 ODI allrounder and world no3 ODI bowler and can also bat very well. So what I'm trying to say is that there has to be a natural talent out there just waiting to be discovered in England and with abit of tweek in techniques like Shakib, you'll have talent machine. Just wish there were more like shakib in the Bengali squad.

  • on March 7, 2010, 10:43 GMT

    Dont you guys understand that the reason Vaughan is so upset is because these players only reason for going to England and playing for them is for money???

    Do you not see that it is the issue here?

    A team like Ireland has now been destroyed because of this. They couldnt afford to lose who they lost.

  • Manush on March 7, 2010, 0:06 GMT

    I am surprised to read the comments of Vaughn's in this article. The answer will be to restrict the number of such outside the country players at any time for any format.

  • lucyferr on March 6, 2010, 23:39 GMT

    Tired of people counting Strauss as South African in this argument. He came to England when he was a snotty little six year old thumbsucker. Criticize the others all you want, but leave Strauss out of it. Despite his regular displays of competence, Lord Brocket is still English. If you disagree, go ask his (English) mum.

  • Singhe on March 6, 2010, 22:46 GMT

    I agree with MV. However, I bet MV believes that the likes of Trott, Kiesw..deserve to play for England ahead of "real Engilshmen" like Carberry and Bopara.

  • on March 6, 2010, 21:55 GMT

    As much as I didn't like Vaughan as a play you've got to respect his views on this. How can they call it England when possibly 5 out of the 11 are south African born? with a batting line up of Strauss, Kieswetter,Trott, Pietersen and Prior, all South African by birth what happens to the young english guys? As I've said elsewhere, sorry you're English, you can't be included

  • BOROMAT on March 12, 2010, 14:10 GMT

    English players in the England team what a crazy idea.Vaughany is a legend.

  • joel1992 on March 10, 2010, 6:24 GMT

    I believe Michael Vaughan is a racist racist.

  • vigi101929 on March 9, 2010, 20:54 GMT

    yes of course u can see 11 English players in the field , for the U.S team of course.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahaha..........!!!!!!!!!!!

  • bumsonseats on March 8, 2010, 20:11 GMT

    i think in all the mentioned cricketers cases the one abiding thing is they have either, a mother or father or both, who were born in the uk. in any sport if a parent is from that country then they are enigible within the rules of that govening body. unlike in the 80s were kepler wessels decided he was australian and the australian cricket board were in agreement. in stronghold rugby union/league countries namely new zealand and australia the number of southsea islanders who become named in their teams after what seems months of living there. so if a guy whatever reason whats to live and play sports in the uk and wants to wait the 4/5 years that it takes good luck to them. dpk

  • Bengali-Tiger007 on March 8, 2010, 2:25 GMT

    Sorry guys, I just read this article and some of your comments just now. I really think that south africa don't actually need trott or keiswetter because they have plenty of talents already. But however, I'm not convinced that England don't have any home bred talents, surely there must be talents waiting to be discovered somewhere out there, maybe even in London? If you think about it, the Bangladeshi captain Shakib Al Hasan was a football fanatic and he use to eat, sleep and drink football day in day out. After abit of cricket introduction to him in his teenage, he is now a cricketer. World no1 ODI allrounder and world no3 ODI bowler and can also bat very well. So what I'm trying to say is that there has to be a natural talent out there just waiting to be discovered in England and with abit of tweek in techniques like Shakib, you'll have talent machine. Just wish there were more like shakib in the Bengali squad.

  • on March 7, 2010, 10:43 GMT

    Dont you guys understand that the reason Vaughan is so upset is because these players only reason for going to England and playing for them is for money???

    Do you not see that it is the issue here?

    A team like Ireland has now been destroyed because of this. They couldnt afford to lose who they lost.

  • Manush on March 7, 2010, 0:06 GMT

    I am surprised to read the comments of Vaughn's in this article. The answer will be to restrict the number of such outside the country players at any time for any format.

  • lucyferr on March 6, 2010, 23:39 GMT

    Tired of people counting Strauss as South African in this argument. He came to England when he was a snotty little six year old thumbsucker. Criticize the others all you want, but leave Strauss out of it. Despite his regular displays of competence, Lord Brocket is still English. If you disagree, go ask his (English) mum.

  • Singhe on March 6, 2010, 22:46 GMT

    I agree with MV. However, I bet MV believes that the likes of Trott, Kiesw..deserve to play for England ahead of "real Engilshmen" like Carberry and Bopara.

  • on March 6, 2010, 21:55 GMT

    As much as I didn't like Vaughan as a play you've got to respect his views on this. How can they call it England when possibly 5 out of the 11 are south African born? with a batting line up of Strauss, Kieswetter,Trott, Pietersen and Prior, all South African by birth what happens to the young english guys? As I've said elsewhere, sorry you're English, you can't be included

  • TiredUKCoach on March 6, 2010, 21:25 GMT

    I have been a cricket coach for over 20 years in UK and have been fighting for the UK born and bred players to be recognised at junior to senior levels and but to no avail. It has been a losing cause all along. Forget about Dutch, German, French, Xhosa, Zulu or Sotho, the local Asian as well as Caribbean talent of this country do not get the chance. Even at junior level, one is able to witness players from SA being used and if I am correct there were more than 100 already in use at various age groups by various Counties. What makes me laugh though is the amount of money and time that is being wasted by ECB on various cricketing programmes in England and Wales, which never produces a cricketer of the calibre we all wish to see. Think, ECB can save all that money by just importing all the SA and Australian cricketers. After all current inhabitants of these countries are mostly the decedents of the natives from England and Wales who colonised these countries bar, perhaps, Australia.

  • FJL23_113. on March 6, 2010, 21:07 GMT

    This really irritates me. What right does Vaughan have to say this. It seems to me that it frustration more at the fact that he was an atrocious one day player, and never really a good enough Test cricketer to justify the reputation that he seems to enjoy.

    Also, Mike, get your facts right about KP and Kieswetter (ignoring, of course, the fact that it is totally inconsistent to justify KP but no-one else). KP came over when he was 20, allowing him to play for England when he was 24. Kieswetter came over when he was 17-18 (he spent his last year of school in England), so can play for England from 22.

    Surely Vaughan is not slagging off KP only because the two know each other fairly well, and it's in his interest to be nice about KP. Kieswetter, on the other hand, will have had almost no contact with Vaughan, so it's easier to be critical of him.

    But Vaughan, mate, noone cares what you think anymore. As my mum taught me, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all

  • on March 6, 2010, 19:05 GMT

    The problem is that the counties would rather have a lad with money up to his eyes which can be donated to the club in various different forms than a lad with talent up to his eyes who can't donate anything of real financial importance. I've seen people of blatent ability turned down in favour of mediocre rich kids. I'm not saying that people who go to private schools and are in the system are only there because they are rich (I'm friends with someone who was educated at a public school who's currently in the system and they deserve to be) but unfortunately it's just not always the case. :(

  • saktriv on March 6, 2010, 17:38 GMT

    I'm a bit confused. He wants 11 Englishmen, yet KP is ok to be included? What about the Irish, Aussies, Scots etc too?...It isn't just South Africans.

    Regarding Kieswetter. He may have a British passport, but isn't one of his parents Scottish? The last time I looked, it was the England and Wales Cricket Board, not a British one.

    What future have 'English' kids got if thier role models playing for their country have picked their nation based on money rather than national pride?

    Following on from the football selection model, could you envisage somone like Ryan Giggs, having helped Wales qualify for the World Cup switching sides to play for England against Wales in the group stages of the tournament? It wouldn't be allowed, so why was it ok for Ed Joyce?

    Let's get rid of this 'Englush qualified players' tag...it's the only sport which commentators repeatedly use this term.

  • Go_F.Alonso on March 6, 2010, 17:23 GMT

    Allow only players who've played all of their competitive cricket at any level for a country into THAT national team. Disallow playing Under-19 or First Class cricket for one country and on the international scene for another. So KP, Trott, Keiswetter and (my current favorite) Morgan can't play for ENG. You can't distinguish between KP & Trott.

  • on March 6, 2010, 16:33 GMT

    I don't see why the ECB can't import south african players.If Premier League impoer best footballs players from around the globe then why should cricket be left behind.South Africans are one of the most devoted crickerting nations and quota systems are marginalizing many talented players who are finding refuge in England so please dont be impatient with them.

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on March 6, 2010, 16:04 GMT

    I think it is better for world cricket. Just imagine how weak Eng would have been without KP (before his slump), would have probably lost the Ashes if not for Trott, may have lost a game vs a struggling Bang without Keiswetter. What I do have a prob with is the pulling of ASSOCIATE players. If we're aiming to spread the game, we need to pay more attention to Assoc. teams and STOP their players from switching sides. Morgan and Joyce SHOULD BE PLAYING FOR IRE, they need them if they are going to progress! SA has a good club structure and have more than enough talent to get by. I don't see Trott making the SA XI ever, even if he didn't switch. Keiswetter is very young and no doubt SA will be disapointed to lose him BUT as I said earlier it helps keep Eng a competitive side and keeps some balance in world cricket.

  • a1234s on March 6, 2010, 13:42 GMT

    I share the same sentiments as MV. Imagine you have toiled through the grind in England and finally you see the test cap within your grasp and then a player from xxx country is given a berth. it is totally unfair. I would say we should follow the football model, where in you can choose your country only once at the start of your career and barring special circumstances you cannot change your decision.

    Case and point: owen hargreaves. he made a decision to play for england despite having never played in England before.

    Of course, English Football has a lot more talent coming up through the schools. So, they can afford to be slightly more restricitve.

    I am not sure that is the case with English cricket any more.

  • SirMac on March 6, 2010, 13:32 GMT

    I wonder did MV consider Simon Jones a "complete Englishmen", considering that Mr Jones is from Wales? On oversight by MV, I'm sure.

  • Andrew_S on March 6, 2010, 13:30 GMT

    jerrymaguire101, possibly the reason no-one is mentioning Dirk Nannes is because his situation is not the same as Joyce and Morgan. Whereas Joyce and Morgan were born in Ireland and grew up in Ireland and then moved to England due to Ireland not having a viable first class structure, Nannes was born in Australia, grew up in Australia and has (as far as I am aware) lived in Australia all his life, and prior to becoming a first class cricketer represented Australia in skiing competition. The only reason he was eligible for the Netherlands was because his parents are both Dutch born.

  • chandau on March 6, 2010, 11:39 GMT

    Well the playing XI is fast becoming a mixed salad, not only with South Africans but also Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Irish, Scots, etc. Too bad there aren't many talented English in the English team. If not for those other nationals even Kenya / Zimbabwe would beat them. Lets face it and acknowledge it: the only teams that have nationals from the home country are the Asians India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. all other countries have "foreigners" amongst them (like Vettori the Italian or Heneiques the Spanish). WE need to understand that money and high quality living can attract people to move and then there is no stopping them becoming part of a nation by VISA regulations. To stop them would be restriction of trade :) I am looking forward to the day when England XI is mode up entirely of Non-Englishmen !! cheers :)

  • bulla on March 6, 2010, 11:17 GMT

    Here are some priceless lessons from history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln

    "The region was home to the Germanic people, the Angles, who, together with Saxons and Jutes, left their home to migrate to Britain in the 5th-6th centuries. For the years 449-455, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, ca. 890 A.D., describes how King Vortigern (a British tribal king) invited the Angles to come and receive land in return for helping him defend against marauding Picts. Those successful Angles sent word back that good land was available and that the British were worthless (presumably as soldiers). A wholesale emigration of Angles and kindred German peoples followed"

    Am I the only one who sees some hilarious parallels with the current South African invasion? Worthless as cricketers surely hahahahahaha

  • BellCurve on March 6, 2010, 11:04 GMT

    The mentality among white South Africans is unique but on the whole certainly more English than Dutch, German, French, Xhosa, Zulu or Sotho. It's relatively easy for them to start a new life in England. That's why there are around 750,000 Saffers in the United Kingdom. Why is MV surprised that there are currently 6 or 7 players with strong South African connections in or around the England set-up? Why is it a problem? Does he also complain when South Africans serve him in a bar or restaurant or when they babysit his children and look after his parents in a nursing home?!

  • pull2open on March 6, 2010, 10:57 GMT

    Completely disagree with Vaughan on this one. If a player chooses to take the time to qualify for England, to my mind that demonstrates more commitment to England & Wales cricket than the mere fact of being born in the UK! We've had non-UK nationals playing for England since Test cricket began pretty much. If the county game could provide enough players capable of international cricket then perhaps these "foreign" players wouldn't (necessarily) get selected despite their qualification.

  • SamAbrams on March 6, 2010, 9:56 GMT

    Sorry Sir Vaughan. It's a skills problem. It exists from palace to pulpit. Coroner to cricketer. The Labour Party knows it. The English can't do it. Then let those who can do it, do it. Don't wallow in past glory. It paints a poor picture of yourelf.

  • bulla on March 6, 2010, 9:34 GMT

    As for Mr. Adam Dwyer, please do not underestimate the contribution of foreign lands into making England what it is, England's economic prosperity and it's Industrial Revolution were funded by huge transfers of capital from colonies (mainly India) which also served as lucrative markets for English exports under a system of grotesquely unfair trade laws.Why get into commenting about something about which you don't have the first clue? As for Indians with broken English, at least they are bilingual, how many Indian languages do you speak?

  • bulla on March 6, 2010, 9:33 GMT

    Come now Mr. Vaughan, you're from a nation which had to import its current royal family from Germany, how about a bit of righteous indignation about being under Fritz rule? Plus, given the fact that the Anglo-Saxons are from, as evident, Anglia and Saxony in Germany, does it mean the true 'Brythons', Celts and Irishmen have first right to be in the 'English' cricket team. I must say, I do begin to see your point, Strauss is such a wonderfully German name, ja. Plus you do have a point, when it comes to cricket, England is increasingly starting to resemble the sheikhdoms of the Middle East, who lure away the first Kenyan / Ethiopian long distance runner in sight, strap on an Arabic name to him / her and let them loose to run under the Bahraini / Qatari flag in the hope of winning an Olympic gold, if it comes off, all the best.

  • on March 6, 2010, 8:08 GMT

    Come on Vaughan you have also played under Nasser Hussain who is Indian descent as he is born in Chennai India so before saying something think hundred times Vaughan

  • DaTBird187 on March 6, 2010, 8:05 GMT

    There are very few intelligent responses in this discussion. Lots of race cards being played by the usual suspects. Vaughan's statement is correct and accurate and has nothing to do with being pro white or anti anyone. The fact is players from South Africa are being schooled, trained and representing their country right through to Under 19's level and even in Trott's case the second XI. They are then finding it not to their liking and are jumping ship to another country where it is easier for them to play County cricket for the $$$ and find themselves fast tracked into an English side desperate for International credibility. It's the same if an Irishman ever gets good at cricket. If I was an England junior cricketer with a promising career ahead of me I would be outraged at having foreign players walk on into the national side and if I was an English fan I would feel the same. The joke that is the ECB is making a laughing stock of the English team, even if they are winning a few games.

  • thomas_mat_77 on March 6, 2010, 7:51 GMT

    @AdamDwyer There's nothing funny when Indians say England was 'built on the sweat and tears of foreigners' coz it's a result of the empire. England would be half the country if it wasnt for the looted riches. And whats it got to do with broken english mate. People who come here from India know atleast 4 languages, unfortunately english happens to be secondary, big deal? Btw, I agree with what Vaughan says, you shouldnt play for a country unless u feel passionately for it.

  • Imz25 on March 6, 2010, 7:25 GMT

    Well, obviously, England don't have enough talent of their own, and because of that, they import players. Simple.

  • Banarasi on March 6, 2010, 6:55 GMT

    Mr, Vaughan with pritty average record, and one success in Ashes thinks, he is above all to make such a comment. I think he is insprired by Hitler and wants to clean up english team. Can someone file a discrimination lawsuite against him? First of all, none of these so called 'south africans' who are playing for Englad are original south africans. Their fore fathers migrated from Britain, so they are brits as well. And second are you talking about cricket only or for everything in Britain, like other sports, politics. If yes than I thinkg Mr Vaughan should ask all the non 'englishmen' soldiers to stop fighting for their country.

  • on March 6, 2010, 6:44 GMT

    I agree more with Michael Vaughan, although alot of these players have come to England because as whites they feel either persecuted in their country....or at the least, know that with the selection policies they are at an extreme disadvantage.

    I do find it funny how alot of Indian nationals with broken english come here and say England was 'built on the sweat and tears of foreigners'. Thats pretty much hogwash...English people built England in the last 2000 years,, some foreign input, but overwhelmingly English....and like in everyday life people from countries that have failed want a piece of that pie.

    BTW im not even English myself, but dont let that cloud my judgment.

  • on March 6, 2010, 6:26 GMT

    Mr Vaughan i would like to tell you that there is not enough talent in english cricket,thats why you people import cricketers from other nations.We are living in a global village,everyone has the right to get different nationality and hence then he/she can play sports or cricket for that specific country.Shame on you michael.

  • on March 6, 2010, 5:32 GMT

    imagine a England team without KP, Trott, Panesar, Mamooods, mascarenas... EPIC FAIL

  • Priyakand on March 6, 2010, 0:14 GMT

    Michael vaughn is a lost case.he trys his best to keep the focus on him by making these statements.English invented this great game.Thats fine.But let it be everyone's game.This country is flooded with foreigners due to various benefits probably and cricket is of no exception.Your forefathers have made britain a prosperous place over the sweat and blood of those so called foreign nationals.They have a moral right to enjoy the privileges of UK.Just accept that.Don't talk too much.

  • jamrith on March 5, 2010, 23:55 GMT

    Shocking words from an ex-captain of England. I think it's the frustration and angst showing. Let's face it, Vaughan was ordinary except for a couple of purple patches. And what exactly does he mean by " complete Englishmen", does that ambiguous term exclude the Panesars, Shahzads and Mahmoods. Goodness gracious me, is the Queen completely English by Vaughan's recko?ing , and Gordon Brown is not English either is he ?? Mr. Vaughan, just retire to your cottage ( sorry, manor), drink your tea, down your lager at the pub, play darts, and stay out of cricket.

  • wanderer1 on March 5, 2010, 23:00 GMT

    Vaughan's comments are just indicative of where British society is heading, and I don't mean that to be an all encompassing generalisation. Without getting too political when nations start to decline, nationalist and romantic historical sentiments tend to be brought to the fore. Vaughan is only admitting what a lot of Englishmen seem to feel nowadays, a disconnection with their notions of where England should be, as opposed to where it is.

  • on March 5, 2010, 22:27 GMT

    Come on Vaughan i am loosing respect for u, u can not have this kind of attitude in this modern world. i got an advice for you " THINK BEFORE YOU TALK". ALL those player came to england legally and worked hard to get selected for england. stop diggin this matter again

  • Dwok on March 5, 2010, 22:17 GMT

    Vaughan is bang on the money, it's a real shame. They might be starting to win games again and look like 'a formidable unit' but from an outside perspective, English crickets credibility is in the toilet. Drafting in overseas players rather than putting the time and money into growing grass roots cricket is completely against the spirit of the game. A desperate 'win at all costs' move by the ECB, they were far more admired when they were losing but with an actual English team rather than mercenaries. Sure there's been players born in other countries before but not like this, not guys just coming out here because they can't make the national team in their own country, it's just impossible to watch these guys go out to bat and believe that they actually love that shirt they're in. It's sad that english cricket has so little belief in itself that it has ended up here.

  • DuncLancs on March 5, 2010, 21:29 GMT

    Quite what the British Empire has to do with this debate I don't know. Importing cricket players in the 21st century is a bit different to exploring the world in the 18th and 19th century. Anyway, further to my earlier post I woke up this morning and was not happy that Kieswetter had scored a century. He's probably cemented his place for a few more months a least with that knock. I would prefer England to lose with a totally English team than win due to the performances of foreigners as any win of this kind is a hollow one. The Ashes win last summer was cheapened by Trott's knock at the Oval in my opinion. Also, we appear to have an unspoken quota system in place here. The attitude seems to be that a good foreigner is preferable to a good English born and bred player of similar ability and stats. Perhaps its the typical English inferiority complex. The foreigner is then picked, people from other countries then think we can't produce our own players. Well we can but they get passed over

  • on March 5, 2010, 21:24 GMT

    Yeah, disgree with Vaughan too, (I assume) it's not like the selectors are going 'Oooo we have an amazing English batsman/bowler, but I think we should pick the South African instead' maybe if we weren't so lacking and boring then we might actually get some decent players of our own, we're pathetic when it comes to people who look good when they're batting/bowling. Everything has to be coached and textbook in England it seems like we're afraid of natural flair.

  • Wexfordwonder on March 5, 2010, 21:04 GMT

    njr1330 you have the nub of the problem. Am I South African because I say I am or English for that matter? How long should Ii spend in a country before I can say that I am from that country? How di Mr Vaughan decide that it was okay for Strauss and Prior but not for Trott. I moved to Ireland for professional and family reasons, why should sportsmen be excluded from this? If my parents are English but I moved to SA when I was 8 am I South African or English? And what about Eoin Morgan?

  • iDontLikeCricket on March 5, 2010, 20:16 GMT

    "England for Englishmen"...

    Starting to sound a bit like Nick Griffin there Mr Vaughan

  • BoomBoomAdnan on March 5, 2010, 19:29 GMT

    once you play for one nation you should not be played to play for another. i saw dirk nannes playing for holland and then australia that should not be allowed but changing your natiionality and playing for a country that has more money or less talnent should be fine.

  • frommoonman on March 5, 2010, 19:05 GMT

    Wonder Mr. Vaughan has seen the TV show - "Britain got Talent" - When it comes to Cricket - It does NOT have it. So stop cribbing unless Eng can produce the talent like the Bothams and Govers and Goochs and Lambs. Otherwise just be happy that South Africans are willing to play in Eng. If Mr. Vaughan looks at the last TWO Ashes victories in Eng - there are THREE players stood out - Flintoff, KP and Trott. So, if it wasn't for South Africans, Eng's Ashes misry would have still continue. And now Kieswetter is doing well, Mr. Vaughan has problems. If KP, Trott and Kieswetter, wins Eng the 2011 WC - I would like to hear what Mr. Vaughan has to say. Mr. Vaughan, just shut up and enjoy whatever success comes your way.

  • coolcricinfodude007 on March 5, 2010, 18:36 GMT

    A whole bunch of countries were frustrated when the English ruled them. So learn to live with it dude.

  • Lead_pig on March 5, 2010, 18:30 GMT

    Exactly, ram5160, the definition is not simple. Given that Kieswetter has had a British passport since childhood due to British parent, he is as eligible to play for England as my kids would be even though they were born in the US (in the highly unlikely event, based on my sportingly inferior genetic input, that they have the talent). If the rules are changed to mean that once you represent at a certain age-group level then you're committed, then I have no problem with that. But that's not the way it is now so Kieswetter, Trott et al have done nothing wrong. England and South Africa would be better off spending time wondering what they can do to their own development systems to make homegrown players more competitive (Eng) or staying more attractive (SA).

  • adil786 on March 5, 2010, 18:27 GMT

    VAMAVERICKS. what weirdbeard actually meant was, england only won the ashes thanks to the south africans like KP , Andrew Strauss and, Trott and Prior

  • DuncLancs on March 5, 2010, 18:26 GMT

    At last a public voice says what I and many others have been thinking for a long time. How can any English cricket fan take any pleasure at all from 'foreigners' being successful in an England shirt. This is international sport where you select the best players of that nationality. Of course you are going to get players such as Strauss and Prior who moved to this country at a very young age. They had no control over this and are products of the English system. Selecting players like these is fine as it would be ludicrous to send them back to their birth country which they probably feel very little affinity with. Players such as Trott and Kieswetter are mercenaries pure and simple. Despite Kieswetter saying he was born with a British passport does anyone seriously think he'd come here if he was a shoe-in to progress to the SA senior side. "No thanks, I'm off to England", hmmm yes of course. Also, qualification periods are treated as a target, he's qualified so we'd better pick him!!!!!

  • Sameer-hbk on March 5, 2010, 18:26 GMT

    This is what happens when you have international players dominating in the domestic competitions and teams being built around foreign talent. Same reason why EPL is arguably one of the best leagues on the planet, yet England never ever manage to do well internationally; why County cricket is spoken of so highly, yet England never win a world cup (or even enough tests). Maybe MV should talk about imports there first...

  • irlanda on March 5, 2010, 18:24 GMT

    im afraid things like this are occurring in all sport,its just sumthin we hav to put up with...look at the english rugby team at the minute,the nzl rugby team like a good fijian winger or two and football is full of it...so JamesAbbeyRoad i dont think thy shud follow rugby unions rules i dont entirely disagree wid it but if a guy cant access the top level or has been living within a country for a very long period then i see no problem with it. If a guy has played for a country at any other level b4hand than i don not think they shud be allowed 1 question is there such thing as the grandmother rule in cricket!!?? And lstly ian botham last time i checked england was in europe!!!!!!

  • on March 5, 2010, 18:10 GMT

    If Vaughan wants to see more "real englishmen," then maybe they should start performing.

  • on March 5, 2010, 17:54 GMT

    I completely disagree with MR.Vaughan, for the simple reason that england lack talent in shorter versions of game, and these so- called SA's have made so huge difference, suddenly this english side looks formidable unit in ODI as well. These African players are making a huge impact for english cricket.

  • VAMAVERICKS on March 5, 2010, 17:28 GMT

    LOL@wierdbeard........South Africa winning the ashes???? LOL... And u are saying its a fact that they won 05 and 09 ashes... Ashes of what? stick cricket...LOL... and England did win Ashes after the 80's... Dont opinionize the facts at least.. And oh I am NOT a brit....

  • njr1330 on March 5, 2010, 17:04 GMT

    Presumably then, Mr. Vaugahan would not select the following XI, by place of birth:

    1. Colin Cowdrey (India) 2. Nasser Hussain (India) 3. Bob Woolmer (India) 4. Douglas Jardine (India) 5. John Barclay (Germany) 6. Gareth Jones (Papua New Guinea) 7. Ed Joyce (Ireland) 8. Tony Grieg (South Africa) 9. Derek Pringle (Kenya) 10. Dermot Reeve (Hong Kong) 11.Andy Caddick (New Zealand)

  • topeleven on March 5, 2010, 16:57 GMT

    Vaughan, Sorry that I am against you in this issue. What England will lose because of this import. I can find an England team where there are no englishman in the playing xi but not the vice versa

  • Philip_Gnana on March 5, 2010, 16:51 GMT

    Well done Michael for coming out and saying what you have said. I am in total agreement with you here. Those who have learnt their cricketing abilites in this country are bieng deprived of playing for England all because of a "post paid" ticket to play for England. This reminds me of the vouchers that you get when you spend. ICC are cautious and hence want to be seen to be politically correct and will not want to offend anyone. An English XI in my opinion consists of players born here or who have lived here long enough and learnt their cricketing skill here to be categorised so. Now it is a free for all with those who have an eye for that extra money. KPdid not learn his cricket here..that I dont agree with. Sir Ian Botham? He after all wants to win all the games with the best available players as long as they qualify on paper. Well, that is not cricket Sir Ian. How about introducing another rule? Say that any team should have a minimum of 8 players born in the country? Surrey

  • jamcnam on March 5, 2010, 16:46 GMT

    So if South Africa won the 05 and 09 Ashes, did England win the 06/07 ones. After all Andrew Symonds is English by your rules

  • ChairmanValvod on March 5, 2010, 16:35 GMT

    reflects a lack of quality talent in the ranks of "ethnic Englishmen" available to select from. Plus I'm sure that the fact that best bastmen, by far, that England has produced in the last two decades is South African born Kevin Pietersen irks this man to no end. Or maybe Mr. Vaughan still seems to be clinging on to a colonial mentality. Sorry Mike, but it seems to me a pretty straight forward issue, simply put, that these South African "imports", as well as other players of South Asian stock, are far more talented than the cricketers who learn their cricket in England and are of ethnic English stock. Simple as that. Start producing talented "englishmen" and put them against the likes of Pietersen, Bopara, Trott, Kieswetter, Strauss, Prior, etc. You won't find any.

  • ChairmanValvod on March 5, 2010, 16:18 GMT

    This is simply an ugly and ludicrous comment and stance by Vaughan. Everybody is entitled to them, and so is he, I guess. The fact that the Engalnd team has so many imports, not just South African's, but members from many different ethnic backgrounds is a refelction of English society in general. Vaughan's feelings on the subject may be a fom nationalistic jingoism, but the fact remains that England, as a country, is a country where many different races, ethnic backgrounds, and nationalities blend perfectly well together to make up the larger English landscape. The English cricket team is no different. What Vaughan should be considered about is this: if the national ENglish side is made up of 5 players who are of South African descent, another three, although maybe born and bred in England, are of South Asian descent, and many mroe in the pipeline from these two regions waiting to lay their claim for England. This relects, in my opinion, the uttler lack of quality of ethnic English

  • on March 5, 2010, 16:00 GMT

    I am a Saffa and I whole heartedly agree!

  • jayray999 on March 5, 2010, 15:51 GMT

    @WeirdBeard: I understand your need to make an analogy but cats and hens belong to different species; in fact they are two distinct classes of vertebrates! Humans, even though they routinely fight wars over national identity can easily pick up a foreign language and culture at a young age. If you moved to China with your 7-year old Canadian-Scottish child and lived there till she was an adult, she might just feel more at home with Chinese culture than anything her parents might have to offer. Are you suggesting that Canadian Sikhs (to pick a religion) and Italian Canadians (to pick a well-represented linguistic group) are any less Canadian than you. If you think about it, English speaking countries (UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc.) due to a number of historical reasons are increasingly becoming the sum of their parts. There are parts of New York and London where English is a foreign language. Yet the residents (by definition) are New Yorkers and Londoners.

  • KTiwari on March 5, 2010, 15:41 GMT

    MV- pls take over ECB and develop your 11 English players....

  • KTiwari on March 5, 2010, 15:28 GMT

    My sympathies with MV but I doubt anything will change as English team has been like this for a long time. Ateast he is speaking his true feelings where South Afica's A team is in effect English team.

  • ram5160 on March 5, 2010, 15:27 GMT

    So, how does Mr.Vaughan define"a complete englishman" ?

  • on March 5, 2010, 15:24 GMT

    vaughan is very much right.. imagin some one who has played for pakistan in under 19 and suddendly some come to india and lives here and get selected for the indian team, it is simply not justified if some one has to represent any country, the talent should come from with in after getting passed from all the criss and crum of the competetion of the country. Other wise its very simple who ever will be willilng to pay more can easily best talents from all over the world and the scenario will be like another IPL..

  • Keralite10 on March 5, 2010, 15:24 GMT

    Dear WeirdBeard.........I don't care who plays for who. But I can tell you that South Africa has never won the Ashes at all (as claimed by WeirdBeard) simply because 'Ashes' is played between England and Australia. Also England has won the Ashes since 80's (in 2005 in England). Think before you talk. Maybe you mixed up cricket with some other sport like rugby............I don't know........btw I am not English or British...........

  • s0ldier on March 5, 2010, 15:22 GMT

    Without those SA born players, England team is a utter crap. That's why the ECB doesn't stop those players. Mr.Vaughn - you are OK with KP/Morgan...but not OK with other players? How stupid is that? Keep dreaming about a complete "Englishmen" team - that will never come true.

  • Nduru on March 5, 2010, 15:18 GMT

    Vaughan you idiot. Leave your xenophobic nationalist rubbish out of it. What on earth is a 'complete Englishman?'. Be thankful that good players who do qualify want to play for your team. Otherwise you might just be whipping boys with your 'pure blooded' team.

  • Sleuth51 on March 5, 2010, 15:17 GMT

    The SA situation is unique in the sense that the racially-based selection policy, at one point in time decried, but now embraced by the media and locals, is driving talent abroad, with England being the natural choice. Bad currency drives out good currency.

    About 15 years ago, I predicted on a BBC message board that this misguided selection policy will ensure that during the next decade, the England team will be full of former South Africans. Talented players with aspirations to play international cricket wil not risk their future to a racially-based selection policy if there are other options available. Vaughan should recognize that the phenomenon represents a transfer of human capital, no different from the transfer of financial capital. It is SA's loss and England's gain.

  • JamesAbbeyRoad on March 5, 2010, 15:13 GMT

    I think the ICC are the people to make the stance here on ex-patriots playing for other countries. They should follow the model that the IRB stipulated for rugby players changing countries. That they can only play for an international team if they have not represented any country at a certain representative level (I think this is Under 21 for Rugby, Martin Johnson nearly fell foul of this rule as he represented the All Blacks at Colts Level). This way, if the player concerned wants to represent a country, he needs to make a decision early in his/her career. Pieterson made this decision, I am not sure Trott or Kieswetter did.

  • veally on March 5, 2010, 15:06 GMT

    Response to weirdbeard - I totally agree with your comments about nationality and place of abode/country etc. However, forgive me if I am missing something here, but when did South Africa start competing for The Ashes or are you suggesting that the "South African Englishmen" won the Ashes for England in 05 and 09? If it is the latter then that is patently not the case, unless Flintoff, Harmison, Vaughan, Strauss, Trescothick, Cook, Bell, Onions, Broad etc have suddenly changed nationality!! This topic will run and run and personally I cannot see there being a resolution that is either equitable or legally enforceable. Maybe a separate thought is about the effect of the IPL on players and the impact that has on their Club/County/District/Region/country representation. That is SOLELY about money and nothing to do with where you come from or who you represent. Potentially this is a lot more interesting going forward as it is outside of the gutless ICC control.

  • concordeboad on March 5, 2010, 14:59 GMT

    I have to agree it's the system that is wrong. As an England supporter whoever walks over that rope playing for us gets my backing 100%

  • KingOwl on March 5, 2010, 14:58 GMT

    These are all mercenaries. They leave their country because they are not good enough to get in to the SA team. They see the money and jump ship. I don't blame them for doing that. But it is clear that the England team will be worse than Zimbabwe if they didn't have the mecenaries in the team.

  • Britosouthafribabwean on March 5, 2010, 14:42 GMT

    ...next he'll be saying the Royal Family has to be British...

    .....but on a seperate note as an import myself I actually support the English cricket team now. Under him it was so dull that even Flintoff looked good...the only time I watched was when suffering from insomnia and needed a sure bet way to get to sleep

  • jerrymaguire101 on March 5, 2010, 14:35 GMT

    and as for new zealand society having a different opinion on the matter, thereby making their teams 'genuine teams' as weirdbeard asserts, lets not forget the fact that New Zealand Rugby have been scouting Pacific Islanders and bringing them over to be schooled, trained, and gain NZ citizenship for many years now. fair enough, they're gaining citizenship to apply their trade, but let's not single England out as being uniquely 'underhand' in this regard, as some are suggesting

  • on March 5, 2010, 14:35 GMT

    The real point Vaughan is making, isn't really whether or not they are English it seems. It seems he wants players to be a product of English system, which is why players like Strauss, Prior, Shah and even Morgan wouldn't be questioned.

    Using Prior as an example, he went to Brighton College, came through the Sussex system and made it in County cricket. He didn't come over as a South African U19 or A Team player in his twenties.

  • addiemanav on March 5, 2010, 14:31 GMT

    it is a comment which is poor in taste.vaughan wants to say that anyone who was born and brought up in england by english parents can only qualify for the english team.that means that even asians are not allowed.then may be people like boparas and panesars along with the trotts need to look for other occupation to survive in a racist and regionalist white england.anyone should ask him if there are even 1000 english players who actually aspire to play professional cricket.the english players have absolutely no major talent that stands out.it is because of the imported players that they actually win ,whatever they win.someone has written in his comment that vaughan should gracefully shut up,and i would totally agree with him.and i would also like to take the oppurtunity to take potshots at machal atherton who himself is a racist commentator.the english captains feel that they are on her majesty's secret service!!

  • jerrymaguire101 on March 5, 2010, 14:08 GMT

    no one seems to have complained about dirk nannes playing for australia, despite having already played for the netherlands...pretty similar to the morgan/joyce situation

  • venugaandu on March 5, 2010, 13:57 GMT

    I think what Michael Vaughan is trying to say is if you leave out players like K.p, Trott, Kieswetter, Straus and Prior he might still have a place in England team. Its funny how carefully he mentions K.P in his article that K.P made a decision very early.If Trott also had the same record as K.P has i am sure he will find some way to be OK with Trott as well. But i am not surprised at all here because this is the same Vaughan who said he doesn't believe in having different captains for TEST and ODI teams and when he was dropped from ODI team he still remained TEST captain.

  • iamforcricket on March 5, 2010, 13:53 GMT

    11 englishmen team, dream on vaughan, I see a 11 non-englishmen team in the very near future. English ruled over the world for so many years, its now their turn to taste their own medicine, its rightly said what goes around comes around. But like a weak westindies team, multinational player in an England team will be really bad for the cricket. But if you judge this practically England dont have the talent to field 11 good english players. I cant think of any prominent modern English player other than Ian Botham, most of them are mediocre at their best. So vaughan son, dream on.

  • Allan716 on March 5, 2010, 13:53 GMT

    This is stupidity. This is something that is created in the English System and the ECB. If Vaughan wants English players then even the likes of Simon Jones, Matthew Maynard and Robert Croft should not have played for England as they are all Welshmen. We will not get into discussions about Dougie Brown or Gavin Hamilton. There isn't enough English talent available to make it to the Test team and that is why the selectors have to choose the South Africans who are definitely better players. Don't fault the players for wanting to make a living. It is not that they aren't contributing to the teams cause. Michael Vaughan talks about home grown players so why did he play for Yorkshire when he was born in Lancashire. It is still the same thing! Just get on with the game Vaughan. You were a great captain for England, sadly you are not the best with the pen. Also, please do not forget that you took over from a captain who was born in India!

  • on March 5, 2010, 13:41 GMT

    I respect Michael Vaughan a lot as he is a Ashes winner and all. But I somehow don't agree with this. Someone like KP has given his all for England - how can anyone forget what KP did in the 2005 Ashes for England?

    In a way this can go ahead and ruin the confidence levels of the South African guys in the team. It is plan and simply unfair on the guys who have taken the Kolpak route and pledged their allegiances to England. It is really unfair. I mean South Africa has this quota (transformation policy) system and it becomes difficult for these guys to play for their country. What is wrong if they decide to migrate to England and play for them?

  • Vernacular_Press on March 5, 2010, 13:38 GMT

    i think vaughn looks as British and not as english or irish.

  • peeeeet on March 5, 2010, 13:35 GMT

    If you want more "Englishmen" in the team and less SAns then these "Englishmen" need to step up and play better than the SAns...simple as that. The reason why the SAns get into the team is because they are, in the selectors minds, the best players in the country that are eligible. As a side note, I think it would be fun to see an England versus non-England born (or something like that) series as part of the English cricket season. Play maybe one 4-day game, and a couple of T20s (I would say 50 over games but England don't do well in that type of format).

  • jeremy.g on March 5, 2010, 13:34 GMT

    @WeirdBeard - Odd that you would mention South Africa, since they were considering playing Pakistan-born Imran Tahir during the recent series against England. The only thing that prevented it from happening was that he was, rather embarrassingly for CSA, ineligible to play for South Africa. As an aside, ad-hominem attacks and excessive exclamations make your arguments look very weak. I'd refrain from either of those, if I were you.

  • 2.14istherunrate on March 5, 2010, 13:31 GMT

    The only purebred Brits are the 600 or so left who supposedly inhabit Anglesey surviving, remnants of the native population pushed back by successive incursions by Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans,more Normans, the odd Iberian settler and various bods brought back here after campaigns such as the Crusades to live under the same flag. Recently post war immigrations from various parts of the erstwhile empire- mostly to fill jobs no one else wanted-and the freedom of movement across the EU in recent years have broadened and completed the tapestry of the English population. I am not sure of the cricketing prowess of these Britons, but it is not probably fit to compete for the Ashes etc

  • on March 5, 2010, 13:27 GMT

    Playing for your country should be more than a cash based decision, so I see Pietersen, Trott and Kieswetter being akin to mercenaries, with no true National allegiance. We are not talking about clubs and transfer fees here ... but National Teams! In addition, South Africa are suffering as a consequence of England's apparent inability to produce enough home grown talent. I wonder how England fans would feel if the likes of Flintoff had decided to go and play for Australia because the money was better. A shocking state of affairs in my opinion.

  • Uranium on March 5, 2010, 13:22 GMT

    I realize why many South Africans are leaving their country as it appears to descend into chaos. Professional sportsmen particularly have the opportunity to be establish themselves with success and wealth in a new country so you can't blame them. This motivation is probably a big factor in their success. The only question I have is: why England? NZ or Aus are far nicer places to live...

  • edberg on March 5, 2010, 13:19 GMT

    don't really have a problem with some of the SA guys playing because they have english/scots parentage so they do have a link to - remember Allan Lamb and Robin Smith had english parents. Vaughan's problem is with players learning their cricket overseas and realising they are not going to make it in their own country then decide to try England. No-one seems to have a problem with Andrew Symonds who was born in England, was picked for England A (although he didn't play) then decided to play for Australia!!

  • WeirdBeard on March 5, 2010, 13:06 GMT

    markb3.. you're such a muppet!! Just because someone moved to England when they were 7, doesn't make them English!! If a cat has her kittens in a henhouse, that doesn't make them chickens.. they're still cats!!! By your logic, if I (a Canadian) and my wife (Scottish) were to have a baby and move to China 7 years later, that would make our kid Chinese!! Come on man, think with your head on straight!!

    Everyone elses comments regarding the status of English cricket are bang-on.. England would be hopeless without their South African & Australian players.. it even took an Irishman to save England from defeat against Bangladesh last week!! England has not won an Ashes series since the 80s.. South Africa won the '05 and '09 Ashes.. FACT!

    Don't let it bring you down, just accept it as reality, and start supporting genuine teams like Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand!

  • CricketMaan on March 5, 2010, 12:40 GMT

    So Vaughan is ok with Morgan but not with Kieswetter! From when on did Irish become English?

  • Interzone on March 5, 2010, 12:34 GMT

    Michael Vaughn always seems to have to stick his oar in at the moment. I think he just makes these comments because he is jealous that he's not playing in (and leading) the england team. Either that or his newspaper columns are so dull and badly written that he needs to be controversial in order to sell papers......

  • maddy20 on March 5, 2010, 12:30 GMT

    The English cricket team is like United Nations Organisation. Plain and simple ROFL! Boycott calling Trott and Petersen was way up there with Zaltzman's blog!

  • on March 5, 2010, 12:26 GMT

    Question: How many "complete Englishmen" played in a World-Cup-winning team? Oh, that's right - NONE! Maybe the "foreigners" will be of some use in the coming World Cup.

  • on March 5, 2010, 12:25 GMT

    And how about Irishmen (Morgan, Ed Joyce, possibly Rankin in near future), Scots (Dougie Brown) or Australians (Pattinson - Born in England but learned Cricket in Australia)? Panesar, Bopara, Rashid, Mahmood, Kabir Ali, Mascarenhas, Samit Patel and Owis Shah etc were born and brought up in England so I would think all will consider them English. Someone like Chris Lewis was born in Guyana or Devon Malcolm who was born in Jamaica but played all their cricket in England so that's alright too most will feel. Yes there was an odd Allan Lamb or Robin Jackman during apartheid era for example but with so many 'ready' imports this current team doesn't quite feel like England teams of 20th century.

  • ErikPohl on March 5, 2010, 11:58 GMT

    I think the real problem is with the ECB draughting in players from countries like Ireland. South Africa have the kind of system in place that can compensate for the loss of players like KP, Trott and co. It's countries like Ireland that have long term goals to become full members of the international cricket community and are losing important players like Morgan to England simply because they pay better. You can't blame Morgan and for that matter you can't blame the South Africans either. It's the system in place that needs to be changed.

  • kingkarthik on March 5, 2010, 11:49 GMT

    Vaughan should gracefully shut up and let the current english team perform well. If it were up to MV he will be playing cricket yet, the opening bowlers would be Steve Harmison and Mathew Hoggard (Was good, no pun) followed by Simon Jones on a wheelchair and Andrew Flintoff fighting for the same wheelchair next over. And to cap it off the premier spinner would be Sunglasses Ashely Giles. Then the wicket keeper would have been G.Jones and Tresco having mental breakdowns. And lets throw in Duncan for good measure. What a sight that would be.... we all know what happened to England when they tried to retain to their ideal world during Ashes 2006/07. Not to mention the 2007WC. Clearly MV wants a bit of publicity, maybe he should consider running on to a cricket field...streaker. If it weren't for the imports, the english team will be the laughing stock filled with over the hill wannabe county cricketers. MV, if you have a personal problem with J.Trott, why don't you slug it out? Bad Knee?

  • danieru on March 5, 2010, 11:42 GMT

    I actually think MV is spot on - if you represent a national team at Under 19 level, that should be the team you qualify for. In football, if you play for the U21 team - that's your team. KP couldn't get a pro contract in SA (he says due to the "quota" system, although it's also likely it's because he was considered an average spin bowler) and as he is HALF ENGLISH, he had the opportunity to make it as a pro here. Kieswetter and Trott are indeed different cases. I'm English and I have mixed emotions about it - on one hand, it's one of the great things about the UK that you can move here, make a life for yourself and BECOME English but on the other hand, it'd be nice to see players who've come 100% through the English system do well. As for Morgan… Ireland don't play enough full ODIs and and he's only been a pro in England. Where exactly was he supposed to go if he wanted to play cricket at the highest level?

  • King_Viv on March 5, 2010, 11:41 GMT

    Whilst I agree with Vaughan in general, I don't agree with him making a special case of KP. Trott, Kieswetter and KP all made a conscious decision to relocate when they were adults as they felt they may not succeed in their home country, citing the quota system as one of the reasons. Straus and Prior are English as are Monty, Rashid, Nasser etc. Morgan certainly is not and I simply don't understand how an Irishman is equally qualified to play for England without a qualifying period. Is it because Ireland is an ICC associate and not a full member? Botham is right that the law is to blame and not the individuals or the selectors. If a guy is qualified legally the selectors should not be blamed for picking him. The Kolpak rule discriminates against local players in country cricket. In order for England to move forward and keep the game alive for youngsters, I propose they introduce an IPL type rule in country cricket whereby 4 players per team must be English qualified and under 23.

  • CricketMaan on March 5, 2010, 11:29 GMT

    I think England boast of the most MULTI CULTURAL country, but in Sports its hard to outsource. may be the option for English Cricketers is to start playing in MTN20 and Sheffield Sheild or Ranji Trophies....may be they will start playing for other countries..but yes i agree the day we will see SA vs Eng aka SA XI is not very far.

  • proteasrulz on March 5, 2010, 11:28 GMT

    South african cricket is the biggest loser............ first it was kp,then trott,nd now highy rated kieswatter(who has just scored a century in his 3 rd odi for eng).wats the hell is going on in south africa?tht these players want to play for other countries......politics,quota syaytem ,just stop for the good of sa cricket.me being a proteas supporter is finding it very hard to digest........

    really sa cricket should act soon, b4 eng field an all south african playing 11......cricket sa should take actions to stop this,coz this is draining sa talent...csa should motivate nd give opportunities to young sa talents,nd make them understand that playing for sa must b their ultimate goal

  • 2.14istherunrate on March 5, 2010, 11:27 GMT

    What is English? How many different varieties of mongrel are there? Alas poor Trott! He only made a ton on debut to seal the Ashes. I preferred Vaughan when he played; I wish he'd come out of retirement and bat for us again. His cover drive is far better than his recent utterings. The devil makes work for idle hands, as well of course as supping with a long spoon. Personally I think all of our South African players have made considerable contributions to our sides,past-Lamb, Smith,Dolly and Grieg,as well as present. And the excellent irishman, Morgan, is already a favourite, big time.

  • mojojesus on March 5, 2010, 11:23 GMT

    I dont understand what vaugny is cribbing abt .. For God's sake !... almost all the whites in Africa have English ancestors.. it was essentially a British colony... and as a matter of fact the English are takin their lost brothers into their fold... I dont think people should be surprised if they find a couple of aussies in their squad... they are just their lost cousins .. ;)

  • kariba87 on March 5, 2010, 11:23 GMT

    When the map of the world was covered in pink representing British colonies, Vaughans' forefathers did not moan !!! Now that the pink has moved back to the Mud Island, he should be greatful !!!At least now England has few batters with an aggressive streak and solid determination unlike some of the spineless performers of days gone by.

  • jerrymaguire101 on March 5, 2010, 11:22 GMT

    is vaughn planning a run for immigration minister for the tories in the may election or something? apparently anyone who's gained recent british citizenship is on a lower caste of british than an 'indigenous' briton,whatever that means. but pietersen and kieswetter actually have british family as well - kieswetter's mum is scottish and he's lived here on and off for half of his life. trott doesn't quite fall into this category, but he actually followed his parents over here in 2002 to gain british citizenship. and if we're following the vaughn's logic, what of mascarenhas (sri lankan parents) and owais shah (born in pakistan)? no one argued about the level of their 'british' or 'englishness', and quite rightly so. the glaring exception here is morgan and ed joyce - it's somehow ok for them to play for england with irish citizenship because, what, england used to run the show there and it's not so far away as SA?i guess the irish were here before vaughn's ancestors emigrated here...

  • kickoz on March 5, 2010, 11:09 GMT

    When the Whole SA was occupied by English people and whole SA team was English man, his father and forefathers have not questioned that. Now when only three players selected, he feel he hate to see English team. That is the life and u have to live Mr.Vaughan. SA,Pak,India,etc are eligible to occupy any thing in england as they have paid their resources to develop what is now in england. Let live it that

  • Marktc on March 5, 2010, 10:53 GMT

    The above comments are spot one. When a 'foreigner' saves the English team they are held up as hero's..now Vaughn has lots to say about it after he retires. And yes, how often is it not the players from other places who save England. Is it the rest of the world's fault they cannot find 12 genuine English players, who are good enough to play for their team. Besides, this is pro sport. You play where the money is and you can follow what opportunities come your way. You cannot blame the players.

  • sudzz71 on March 5, 2010, 10:51 GMT

    Its all good to say 11 Englishmen etc, but a simple fact that stares everyone in the face is that at school level and at club levels cricket is right at the bottom of the totem pole even if it is there, along with field hockey cricket must be sharing a dubious distinction of being one of the most unglamorous sports.

    till that does not change to expect home grown talent to block the way of imported plug and play talent is only a dream with no hope of ever being realised.

  • on March 5, 2010, 10:48 GMT

    I support this protest of Micheal Vaughan, I think it is time that ICC should look at this situation. Count the number of players who have been imported in the current squad. Moreover, one should look at the cases of players like Ed Joyce, Eion Morgan, think of the Ireland team who are missing the services of these players. Honestly how many pure Englishmen have fitted in their team lately? Recruits from allround the world will rotten up the English smell within the team in a few years time, if no serious step is taken against it.

  • PSSidhu on March 5, 2010, 10:27 GMT

    Is Prince Philip 24 carat English?

  • markb3 on March 5, 2010, 10:13 GMT

    Abba, Strauss' family moved to England when he was 7. He went to school in England, learned to play cricket in England, lived as a child, a teenager and then an adult in England, then married and made his home in England. It's been 25 years since he lived in South Africa - he is ENGLISH!!!

  • Iron-Haggis on March 5, 2010, 10:13 GMT

    Why has he brought this up just now? England have been picking players who learnt their cricket overseas for decades. Also why shouldn't someone who has immigrated and gotten citizenship be allowed to play for his adopted country? What if Yorkshire never got rid of its Yorkshire born only policy, would he have ever gotten the oppurtunity he did?

  • on March 5, 2010, 10:09 GMT

    People with Irish, South African, Indian, Pakistani and Sri Lankan descent have played for England. It's the nature of the beast.

  • sean_kelly on March 5, 2010, 10:06 GMT

    England need to take what they can get. I dont consider Strauss or Prior SAn. They were born here, that's it. Pietersen, Trott and Kieswetter have chosen to ply their trade elsewhere and they are entitled to do so. England are the beneficiaries of that talent. Honestly, of those 3, Pietersen would make the current SA squad... and they are welcome to him, quite frankly.

  • Easygoing525 on March 5, 2010, 9:59 GMT

    I think Vaughan and even in the future the England selectors can't stop this influx of foreign players in England side because all the sporting envets are changing. Not only in cricket but even in other sports you find lot of different nationalities representing thier non birth countries. We live in an information age where there is no barrier for race, religion, cast or creed. If someone is willing to represent a country legally, he or she must be allowed to do so without any hinderence. I hope Vaughan would realise this.

  • Nerk on March 5, 2010, 9:49 GMT

    The English have always had the odd 'non-English' player on their team. Tony Greig and D'olivera is a simple example, during the 80s and 90s the English turned to West Indian and Aussie born chaps. I fear if England actually fielded a team entirely from England they would be under serious threat of being beaten by, well, everyone.

  • markb3 on March 5, 2010, 9:45 GMT

    Abaa, Andrew Strauss' family moved to England when he was 7. He hasn't lived in South Africa for 25 years. He went to school in England, was brought up in England, leant cricket in England, married in England. He is ENGLISH. -

  • Quazar on March 5, 2010, 9:27 GMT

    Cmon guys, don't be so harsh on Vaughn. After all, isn't there a difference between a Strauss who grew up in England as against a Trott who even played for SA A? I think it's easy to see why someone who is a product of English cricket would find it unsavoury to have the national team represented by guys who are not. (Not that I think Trott, et al are 'evil'...they just chose a better opportunity for themselves, just like millions of professionals in other fields)

  • Isam8432 on March 5, 2010, 9:22 GMT

    Just because he represents KP, its alright for him that KP plays for England. I think Trott must've refused Vaughan something...

  • Anuranga_Gunathilake on March 5, 2010, 8:56 GMT

    Well I would love to see England playing 11 Englishmen and then at least managing to win against Bangalidesh or Zimbabwe.

    Also on that year I wish and pray that the Ashes matches will bo beyond day 3.

  • Theena on March 5, 2010, 8:37 GMT

    Haha. This is hilarious. I am sure Vaughn wasn't complaining when KP took England past the finish line in 05. While I agree with him, this statement smacks of hypocrisy on Vaughn's part. Botham, at least, acknowledges the cold realities that causes many Saffers to ply their trade in England.

  • joyking on March 5, 2010, 8:34 GMT

    today also a south african is responsible for the score, i do not know y vaughan has become so enlishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now, may be to grab headlines

  • on March 5, 2010, 8:20 GMT

    Even with all the South African imports and people of Asian origin, England cant win anything. So what is the point in saying all that. If these players dont play for England, they ll play as badly as the West Indes. Is Micheal trying to say that there is ample English talent and the selectors are selecting only so called outsiders. Dont think so. So what is he saying?????

  • Dustin on March 5, 2010, 8:14 GMT

    Look on the bright side Vaughan, when England next tour South Africa the ECB will save on hotel costs with over half the team staying with their parents, you won't need to bring over a team bus driver with an international license as you'll have enough local driver licenses to rotate the responsibility and still concentrate on cricket, you don't need a GPRS, in fact if the South Africans ask their parents nicely they could probably borrow their cars and car pool between hotels and the ground.

  • cook on March 5, 2010, 8:12 GMT

    If there were no imports allowed, the England team would be an embarrassment. They simply don't have the talent themselves to be a good team. They would be lucky to beat the likes of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. They need to look at their county system. Most of the best players are from overseas.

  • CricLook on March 5, 2010, 7:52 GMT

    I think Vaughan is right to this context. Can u imagine an indian team with a English Player or a Bangladesh team with a Australian Player. New Zealand is a mediocre team most of their history but they didnt try to import from SA/Zim or somewhere else. Game becomes global but not national identity. Can u believe England would win this Ashes without KP or Trott..? Important thing is they didnt try. The country has a complete cricketing infrastructure , there is no reason not to find 11 English players. Think about Sri Lanka , this small island produced exciting cricketers. So England can also develop home grown talent. Otherwise they have accept that Englishmen cant achieve anything without importing talent from other countries.

  • AJ100 on March 5, 2010, 7:41 GMT

    Thanks for your opinion Mr Vaughan. I can understand your sentiments but reality is so different. So could we safely declare that victories in 2005 and 2009 should be re-written as SA beat Aussies rather than Eng victory in Ashes??!

    If thats the case, you were upset trott celebrated during SA success. So should Trott / KP/ Prior / Strauss be upset with you that you celebrated their so called Ashes success!!!!

    Time to wake up Sir!

  • on March 5, 2010, 7:29 GMT

    Don't really understand why Vaughan is spouting this drivel. Without Pietersen, Vaughan's greatest achievement would probably not have happened (regaining the Ashes). He also pushed Pietersen ahead of Graham Thorpe (an 'Englishman') for that series.

  • baobabjim on March 5, 2010, 7:24 GMT

    ja, well I can only agree. We should be able to keep our talent for the success of SA. I don't recall seeing any Aussies or Kiwis gagging to get into the Eng team...Now I wonder what the problem might be?

  • Test-Over-T20 on March 5, 2010, 7:20 GMT

    Kind of fed up with Vaughan, he's always talking, talking, critisizing the England team, he really should back England and stay like that or just shut his trap

  • AustraliaNo.1Forever on March 5, 2010, 7:00 GMT

    yes so true EddyM, rudi koertzen was the oen who stole the asehs from australia for engladn!

  • vatsap on March 5, 2010, 6:53 GMT

    Whats with grumpy English captains. Athers keeps taking hits at Strauss and now Vaughan at Trott and other players. Back your team Vaughan.

  • EddyM on March 5, 2010, 6:07 GMT

    This will never happen because England are so desperate for success they will take anyone

  • Abaa on March 5, 2010, 6:03 GMT

    Didn't his team that won the '05 Ashes have a couple South Africans? Strauss and Pietersen? Regardless of when they switched allegiances, this guy is pretty biased. The home series loss to SAF that effectively ended his career must still bite ... Either accept and embrace the multi-cultural nature of the team and face up to the criticism from others or totally abolish all complete non-Englishmen

  • joyking on March 5, 2010, 4:44 GMT

    Vaughan has just forgot that the south africans , KP in 05 and Trott in 09 were responsible to retain the ashes urn for the English.

  • c.anns on March 5, 2010, 4:41 GMT

    Mr. Vaughan if you frustrated with South African influx then try to get your 11english men on the field . & plz dn't include any others too ( likes of eoin morgam ) and try to win a single match even

  • Lakpj on March 5, 2010, 4:28 GMT

    Well, Eng can't survive without these so called imported players. look who saved thm on the other day against Bangladesh. it was an irishman.if not for morgon they could suffered a terrible lost.i think Vaughan should think twice b4 releasing such statements.

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  • Lakpj on March 5, 2010, 4:28 GMT

    Well, Eng can't survive without these so called imported players. look who saved thm on the other day against Bangladesh. it was an irishman.if not for morgon they could suffered a terrible lost.i think Vaughan should think twice b4 releasing such statements.

  • c.anns on March 5, 2010, 4:41 GMT

    Mr. Vaughan if you frustrated with South African influx then try to get your 11english men on the field . & plz dn't include any others too ( likes of eoin morgam ) and try to win a single match even

  • joyking on March 5, 2010, 4:44 GMT

    Vaughan has just forgot that the south africans , KP in 05 and Trott in 09 were responsible to retain the ashes urn for the English.

  • Abaa on March 5, 2010, 6:03 GMT

    Didn't his team that won the '05 Ashes have a couple South Africans? Strauss and Pietersen? Regardless of when they switched allegiances, this guy is pretty biased. The home series loss to SAF that effectively ended his career must still bite ... Either accept and embrace the multi-cultural nature of the team and face up to the criticism from others or totally abolish all complete non-Englishmen

  • EddyM on March 5, 2010, 6:07 GMT

    This will never happen because England are so desperate for success they will take anyone

  • vatsap on March 5, 2010, 6:53 GMT

    Whats with grumpy English captains. Athers keeps taking hits at Strauss and now Vaughan at Trott and other players. Back your team Vaughan.

  • AustraliaNo.1Forever on March 5, 2010, 7:00 GMT

    yes so true EddyM, rudi koertzen was the oen who stole the asehs from australia for engladn!

  • Test-Over-T20 on March 5, 2010, 7:20 GMT

    Kind of fed up with Vaughan, he's always talking, talking, critisizing the England team, he really should back England and stay like that or just shut his trap

  • baobabjim on March 5, 2010, 7:24 GMT

    ja, well I can only agree. We should be able to keep our talent for the success of SA. I don't recall seeing any Aussies or Kiwis gagging to get into the Eng team...Now I wonder what the problem might be?

  • on March 5, 2010, 7:29 GMT

    Don't really understand why Vaughan is spouting this drivel. Without Pietersen, Vaughan's greatest achievement would probably not have happened (regaining the Ashes). He also pushed Pietersen ahead of Graham Thorpe (an 'Englishman') for that series.