India in New Zealand 2008-09 January 15, 2009

India to play extra Test and Twenty20 in NZ

Cricinfo staff
28

Top Curve
Revised schedule
  • 1st Twenty20 international- February 25, Christchurch
  • 2nd Twenty20 international- February 27, Wellington
  • 1st ODI- March 3, Napier
  • 2nd ODI- March 6, Wellington
  • 3rd ODI- March 8, Christchurch
  • 4th ODI- March 11, Hamilton
  • 5th ODI- March 14, Auckland
  • 1st Test- March 18-22, Hamilton
  • 2nd Test- March 26-30, Napier
  • 3rd Test- April 3-7, Wellington
Bottom Curve

India's tour of New Zealand has been extended to include a third Test and a second Twenty20 international. The extra fixtures have been included at the expense of the tour match which means India will have no practice games during their visit that includes two Twenty20 matches, five ODIs and three Tests.

India will arrive in New Zealand on February 20, eight days earlier than originally scheduled, and will begin the tour with a Twenty20 match in Christchurch on February 25. Napier will host the additional Test, the second of the three-match series, from March 26 to 30. The reworked schedule resulted in the dates for the second Twenty20 game and the first three ODIs being brought forward. The three-day warm-up match against a New Zealand XI in Lincoln between the ODIs and Tests has also been scrapped.

BCCI secretary N Srinivasan said he was delighted that both the boards were able to agree on an extended tour. "My thanks go to New Zealand Cricket for responding positively to our request for an extended Test series," he said. "There have been a number of issues for both boards to resolve to accommodate the new schedule and I am pleased we have been able to work together to achieve a high quality programme. To have such a strong mix of Tests, one-day internationals and Twenty20s will be good for both teams, and for cricket followers in India and New Zealand."

NZC chief executive Justin Vaughan said the opportunity for an extended tour by India was great for the game in New Zealand. "India are probably the most exciting side in the world at present - packed with superstar players, and the chance to see six more days of high quality international competition will be welcomed by all New Zealand cricket fans, and give our team a great chance to prove themselves against the world's best," he said.

"We have worked hard to keep as much of the schedule as possible intact - the result is a tour where more fans will be able to see more games in more places."

India last toured New Zealand in 2002-03 and were beaten 0-2 in the Tests and 2-5 in the ODIs.

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • nasersid on January 16, 2009, 15:22 GMT

    I think it will be a difficult series for Indian batsmen if the wickets are as bouncy and pacy as they had the last tour of 2002/2003 I remember the bowlers like Danny Morrison were difficult to handle then. But if India prevails the change of conditions and different nature of wicket then truly they will emerge as next leaders of the game. I am all excited for this one.

  • liampower125 on January 16, 2009, 12:42 GMT

    Its obvious that the BCCI are just trying to pull the trick they have played on england, sri lanka and australia, and that trick is just trying to lure overseas drawcards into the IPL. The BCCI are going to be in for a shock when they find out how badly India will go in this upcoming series, mostly becasue they are going to have no idea when it comes to the kiwi conditions. Besides its only a matter of time before Dhoni, Tendulkar, Sehwag etc express the hatred towards the BCCI and their crazy ideas that cricket should be played every day of the year from 7.30 in the morning until 10.00 at night.

  • Parth_Pala on January 16, 2009, 9:04 GMT

    Luks - that is the stupidest comment I have seen in a while. Here is a more reasonable explanation . With the cancellation of Pakistan series BCCI has lost on huge amounts of revenue. By having the extra games which along with a test ALSO includes a T20 which Tendulkar does not play....will mean gaining back some of that lost revenue. Its simple business tactics as opposed to self rightoeus ones. It doesn't help the players but hey India have beaten enough teams recently without any real practice and NZ let's face it are on par to be the second worst team , it is between them and West Indies.

  • luks on January 16, 2009, 1:33 GMT

    Who's willing to bet that the extra test is because Ponting is catching up with Tendulkar in the number of centuries in tests. And, the fact that Aussies have a lot of tests coming up while India doesn't have as many.

    It is extremely atypical to do away with the one and only tour game.

    Also, in the past Indian tour extensions have typically been in terms of additional one dayers. An additional test in NZ I don't think has much more commercial value for BCCI as a couple of one dayers or maybe another T20 game.

    All this points to the Tendulkar/Ponting hypothesis in my view. Hopefully, its a ridiculous hypothesis but can't help think about it!!

  • kapsy on January 16, 2009, 1:21 GMT

    The BCCI has played right into the hands of it Kiwis by abandoning practice matches. The Kiwis are probably the most difficult side to beat on their home turf. They under-prepare their pitches and turn them into mine-fields that only they themselves can play on. The Indians have their work cut out for them.

    Let's hope that it's an exciting series....(although I can visualise the Indians returning home with their tails tucked between their legs.)

  • royalbob on January 16, 2009, 0:17 GMT

    The momentum is with India and SA, especially both teams have beaten Australia. Indians have beaten Australians and England teams recently. The present form of Indian cricketers like Sachin,Gambir,Shewag and Zaheer is so freighting that no team can stand in their way now. If Indians can win in NZ them they on the way to be a top team sooner or later.

    Indians are at good form in one dayers also,especially after beating England 5-0

  • Hendo007 on January 16, 2009, 0:06 GMT

    Tests that late in the year, ha! One will be rained out and the third test will finish at 4pm every night with bad light.

  • audi1 on January 15, 2009, 22:11 GMT

    Great to see India for longer but who has Christchurch upset, Napier seems to be getting plenty of tests and ODI's etc with games there from the Windies tour and now India and pretty unimpressive crowds and ChCh gets crumbs in the rain and still turn out in reasonable numbers. It sucks

  • SRAM20 on January 15, 2009, 20:58 GMT

    I dont think NZ is that great a side for India to not get used to the conditions without losing badly. We have two T20's to get our feet moving in New Zealand. By the time the ODI's start, we should be ready to roll over NZ in the ODI's and the test matches. And also, it gives the BCCI chance to earn some good money from the T20's. I think the T20's should be considered as the practice games. Our ODI XI should play the T20 to get used and then get into the ODI's

  • royalbob on January 15, 2009, 20:58 GMT

    Great news, I am for more cricket with NZ and Indian teams.Its been a long time since Indian visited NZ,So I am eagerly looking forward to this India-NZ series for some excellent cricket. I hope this will be a good series played in good atmosphere and spirit.

    All the best to Indian team,they have good chances to win this series.

  • nasersid on January 16, 2009, 15:22 GMT

    I think it will be a difficult series for Indian batsmen if the wickets are as bouncy and pacy as they had the last tour of 2002/2003 I remember the bowlers like Danny Morrison were difficult to handle then. But if India prevails the change of conditions and different nature of wicket then truly they will emerge as next leaders of the game. I am all excited for this one.

  • liampower125 on January 16, 2009, 12:42 GMT

    Its obvious that the BCCI are just trying to pull the trick they have played on england, sri lanka and australia, and that trick is just trying to lure overseas drawcards into the IPL. The BCCI are going to be in for a shock when they find out how badly India will go in this upcoming series, mostly becasue they are going to have no idea when it comes to the kiwi conditions. Besides its only a matter of time before Dhoni, Tendulkar, Sehwag etc express the hatred towards the BCCI and their crazy ideas that cricket should be played every day of the year from 7.30 in the morning until 10.00 at night.

  • Parth_Pala on January 16, 2009, 9:04 GMT

    Luks - that is the stupidest comment I have seen in a while. Here is a more reasonable explanation . With the cancellation of Pakistan series BCCI has lost on huge amounts of revenue. By having the extra games which along with a test ALSO includes a T20 which Tendulkar does not play....will mean gaining back some of that lost revenue. Its simple business tactics as opposed to self rightoeus ones. It doesn't help the players but hey India have beaten enough teams recently without any real practice and NZ let's face it are on par to be the second worst team , it is between them and West Indies.

  • luks on January 16, 2009, 1:33 GMT

    Who's willing to bet that the extra test is because Ponting is catching up with Tendulkar in the number of centuries in tests. And, the fact that Aussies have a lot of tests coming up while India doesn't have as many.

    It is extremely atypical to do away with the one and only tour game.

    Also, in the past Indian tour extensions have typically been in terms of additional one dayers. An additional test in NZ I don't think has much more commercial value for BCCI as a couple of one dayers or maybe another T20 game.

    All this points to the Tendulkar/Ponting hypothesis in my view. Hopefully, its a ridiculous hypothesis but can't help think about it!!

  • kapsy on January 16, 2009, 1:21 GMT

    The BCCI has played right into the hands of it Kiwis by abandoning practice matches. The Kiwis are probably the most difficult side to beat on their home turf. They under-prepare their pitches and turn them into mine-fields that only they themselves can play on. The Indians have their work cut out for them.

    Let's hope that it's an exciting series....(although I can visualise the Indians returning home with their tails tucked between their legs.)

  • royalbob on January 16, 2009, 0:17 GMT

    The momentum is with India and SA, especially both teams have beaten Australia. Indians have beaten Australians and England teams recently. The present form of Indian cricketers like Sachin,Gambir,Shewag and Zaheer is so freighting that no team can stand in their way now. If Indians can win in NZ them they on the way to be a top team sooner or later.

    Indians are at good form in one dayers also,especially after beating England 5-0

  • Hendo007 on January 16, 2009, 0:06 GMT

    Tests that late in the year, ha! One will be rained out and the third test will finish at 4pm every night with bad light.

  • audi1 on January 15, 2009, 22:11 GMT

    Great to see India for longer but who has Christchurch upset, Napier seems to be getting plenty of tests and ODI's etc with games there from the Windies tour and now India and pretty unimpressive crowds and ChCh gets crumbs in the rain and still turn out in reasonable numbers. It sucks

  • SRAM20 on January 15, 2009, 20:58 GMT

    I dont think NZ is that great a side for India to not get used to the conditions without losing badly. We have two T20's to get our feet moving in New Zealand. By the time the ODI's start, we should be ready to roll over NZ in the ODI's and the test matches. And also, it gives the BCCI chance to earn some good money from the T20's. I think the T20's should be considered as the practice games. Our ODI XI should play the T20 to get used and then get into the ODI's

  • royalbob on January 15, 2009, 20:58 GMT

    Great news, I am for more cricket with NZ and Indian teams.Its been a long time since Indian visited NZ,So I am eagerly looking forward to this India-NZ series for some excellent cricket. I hope this will be a good series played in good atmosphere and spirit.

    All the best to Indian team,they have good chances to win this series.

  • Skool on January 15, 2009, 19:12 GMT

    It's obviously a good decision. T20 has become so popular that it wont be a surprise if they play 5 T20s and 3 one dayers. And we've already agreed in recent Ind Eng series that only 2 tests are not sufficient. Hopefully, India will put up a better show this time. Yes, but sacrificning a tour match is not a good decision, especially on these pitches.

  • bubloo on January 15, 2009, 19:10 GMT

    With an already cramped schedule all year round, the tour games will soon be a thing of the past just like the rest days in the tests. Perhaps England will be the only country to keep up the tradition. The tour games offer a rare opportunity for local cricketers to play with International teams while also providing the chance to the visitors to test some of their future hopefuls while resting some key players. Tour games also help in trying out your potential team before going into a big game. There will be a few talented players who will never get a chance of playing a single game on the tour because they can't make the cut into any playing XI. No one can deny that the board officials are more interested in generating extra cash through limited over games at the expense of tour games. ICC must step in to stop this rubbish of T20s taking the center stage. The addition of extra test should be a lesson for the PCB who lost a test to SL besides losing a T20 and 2 ODIs on their visit.

  • Kummzy on January 15, 2009, 18:48 GMT

    Inspite of letting India play one more test and 20/20.The Newzealand cricket did not have an extra match in Auckland(where all the tickets are going to be sold out because it is going to be the last visit of the greated cricketr of all time)they have given 2 matches each in Hamilton,Christchurch,Even Napier and 3 in Wellington but only one in Auckland-This is rediculous.If they have 3 in Auckland they would have had lot of collection Selva -Auckland

  • nksobby on January 15, 2009, 18:42 GMT

    This actually shows the lack of professionalism and money mindedness of BCCI.You can see what was the thing with Australia in their last tour of India.Once the champions trophy was cancelled,they actually came ahead of their proposed date to acclimatise to the Indian conditions and played extra practice matches.They persisted for the pactice games and their board obliged them.But BCCI,being the richest board did not care of cricket but had its eyes only on revenue.

  • more.tests.please on January 15, 2009, 18:28 GMT

    Crap decision of having no side games at all! However, scheduling 2 T20s shows its growing popularity; Aus and SA played 2 recently as well. It might turn out to be a really bad move for India as they play the first test without any practice games and that too after a long layoff since the Australia series. In my opinion, BCCI and NZC boards should've finalised on 2 T20s followed 3 ODIs and then a 3-day practice game before the 3-Test series. 2-Test series always looks incomplete unless Bangadesh or Zimbabwe are involved. 5 ODIs, on the other hands, looks a bit too much and 2 T20s should make up for that. There must be a compromise in the number of ODIs the teams play if they want to have more T20s. But please don't have one-off or a 2-Test series any more! Also, to wrap it up, let the boys have some sort of practice games before a Test series!

  • IlMagnifico on January 15, 2009, 16:30 GMT

    If the Indian team does not need adjustment, so be it. If they do, they will be caught flat-footed in the one-dayers. T20 does not need adjustments. Pitches in New Zealand? What pitches? I thought the curator just went out on the grass and put down stumps wherever he thought fit!

  • Dhanno on January 15, 2009, 15:03 GMT

    BCCI will only continue with this trend, they are just milking the fat cow that is Indian public paying BCCI to watch this circus. Hope the Cow kicks them hard in not so far future, when something like football takes over the country. Its absolutely stupid decision and one that will affect the tour result, albeit for the fact that I dont care for ODIs and T20s. Day isnt far when India will land in Australia at 5am and same morning start a Test match at Perth and Shetty's and Modi's will calmly state "due diligence has been paid to every aspect". For utter unintelligent (wanted to use a word starting with M, but it will not be civilized!) people who suggest you can start with T20 and acclimatize, you dont know squat about test cricket. The conditions are so much different (ball, pitch, mindset for 5 day game) and in our case the batting personnel themselves will be different. This will just give another reason to BCCI hawks and supposed die hard fans to say VVS and Dravid are useless.

  • ribllh on January 15, 2009, 14:59 GMT

    From a New Zealand point of view however this is great news. While other sides often get to play four or five test series the opportunities given to the kiwi side for three test series are few and far between. It seems difficult for NZ to organise a three test series against teams like Sri Lanka, Pakistan or the West Indies so to have the opportunity to play a three test series against one of the 'big' teams is great for the New Zealand fans and players.

  • samraj on January 15, 2009, 14:09 GMT

    First of all I do not agree with some of the comments that were posted on this blog. Indian team playing hell lot of cricket in a year, so I don't think not having a tour match is going to make any difference, as ODI's and T20's are fun games and don't mean too much. And by the time they reach test series the most of the team will be well aware about the conditions except the test specialists. But the test specialists are test specialists and they well visited NZ few times. The test specialists can travel to NZ may be couple weeks before than the current schedule and play with local teams to understand the pitches. If IND wants to be No.1 then they need challenges in facing any team and win them. I would have liked 5 teats in NZ to see whether this test side can be No. 1. IND has loads of talent, so don't need to worry too much.

  • India_will_win on January 15, 2009, 13:58 GMT

    What a shame! BCCI being the richest board in the world still can't resist the temptation of generating extra revenue from T20 matches. What good it will do to players who will straight away play a test match after these matches. No common sense or vision is shown here by the people who finalised this schedule. It is a win-win situation for New Zealand. Although there is no Fleming, Mcmillan, Twose, Cairns, Astle, Richardson in their side but still its a very good side on home grounds. India no matter how strong they are in both batting and bowling will be without any practice, especially players like Laxman, Dravid who will not play T20. If India beats New Zealand in the first Test it would be a victory of great character.

  • sunnimanz on January 15, 2009, 13:54 GMT

    I do welcome the decision for more cricket, I really do. I don't recommend teams continuing this trend of no warm-up matches. I feel the lack of preparation from India in Australia in 2007-08 led to them being thumped in the 1st Test.

    Unfortunately though, with all these new IPL tournaments and chopping and changing of the future tours, this will become a more common theme in the future. Teams will be shortening tours down and cutting out practice matches and weeks off between Tests because the calender has become so hectic.

    One thing you have to give credit for to the BCCI is their calm attitude towards things. After the Pakistan tour was cancelled they have gone about things in the right way by politely approaching New Zealand to extend the tour and also having quick/trouble-free negotiations with Sri Lanka.

    All the more cricket to watch.

  • nikhilsg on January 15, 2009, 12:09 GMT

    This is INSANE!! How could the BCCI agree to a full Test/limited over tour in a country like NZ (where the conditions will be about as different from India as they can possibly get) without any warm-up games? India has always found it difficult in NZ - just recall the last tour there... One is very happy to see a full three-Test series, but at what cost?? The BCCI can't be serious about wanting India to become the top Test team, because this surely isn't the way to make it happen. Unfortunately some meaningless ODIs with SL, to pump up revenues now and to ensure SL participation in the IPL, are taking precedence. All one can hope for is that ppl like Dhoni make their displeasure known.

  • Abhithen on January 15, 2009, 11:41 GMT

    Its good for New Zealand but somewhat disappointing for the Indian fans. The reason is Indians have to prolong a cakewalk tour and New Zealand can try something different every match to be on par with India. But that would be only in their dreams. Hence its gonna be a 3-0 in tests and 5-0 in one dayer's by India... but the T20 is unpredictable.... Though India are the favorites...

  • Batsnumbereleven on January 15, 2009, 11:29 GMT

    An extra mid-week slog isn't exactly good preparation for a Test series. I'm glad to see the additional Test match but am surprised that Test nations are still eschewing the opportunity to acclimatise properly.

  • Arvind_Saharan on January 15, 2009, 11:05 GMT

    Welcome to New Zealand Indian team. It wont be easy for Team India to perform here due to the nature of pitches in NZ. Most of the stadiums use drop in pitches, which can go any way. A team can get out for only 100 runs or can go to make more then 350. Its really hard to predict. Most of the current players have probably got no idea of NZ pitches & conditions. Seniors players who failed to deliver in last tour would probably play here for the last time. Its the last chance for fab 3 to get some runs & leave on a high note. Good luck to Team India.

  • SUNDOS on January 15, 2009, 10:45 GMT

    Arriving early,and not being able to fit in a two day match,just to be able to get used to conditions seems strange.With the race to be NO1 in the world amongst teams really hotting up,India could be caught out in Kiwi conditions.

  • Anand_jak on January 15, 2009, 10:20 GMT

    While the additional test is welcome, coming at the expense of a tour game is not the right thing to do. If the BCCI were serious about team India becoming #1 in test cricket, the team should have gotten there 10 days early and played two 3 day tour games ahead of the test series. The series against SriLanka was unnecessary. It is now clear that this was only a carrot to the cash starved SriLankan Board...they will earn a bit of revenue with India's tour and be happy to release their players for the 2009 IPL. This offers the IPL more commercial benefits. If really needed, the SriLankan tour could have been limited to 3 ODIs.

    Again BCCI's commercial interest overrides cricket priorities.

  • avkris on January 15, 2009, 10:15 GMT

    Tour games have always been just a time pass and teams have never taken it seriously. The results are never considered seriously and teams treat the tour games as just an occasion to stretch their legs. It would be much better if they either play at nets or go for a bang-bang T20 game as India is doing now. The results of a T20 game don't really matter much as there is no points awarded. So teams can treat it as a preparation game and really get their radars right for the real tour. I was really hoping that there will be an extra T20 game after watching Aus-SA clashes. So kudos to BCCI and NZ cricket board. Forget tour games, welcome T20.

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  • avkris on January 15, 2009, 10:15 GMT

    Tour games have always been just a time pass and teams have never taken it seriously. The results are never considered seriously and teams treat the tour games as just an occasion to stretch their legs. It would be much better if they either play at nets or go for a bang-bang T20 game as India is doing now. The results of a T20 game don't really matter much as there is no points awarded. So teams can treat it as a preparation game and really get their radars right for the real tour. I was really hoping that there will be an extra T20 game after watching Aus-SA clashes. So kudos to BCCI and NZ cricket board. Forget tour games, welcome T20.

  • Anand_jak on January 15, 2009, 10:20 GMT

    While the additional test is welcome, coming at the expense of a tour game is not the right thing to do. If the BCCI were serious about team India becoming #1 in test cricket, the team should have gotten there 10 days early and played two 3 day tour games ahead of the test series. The series against SriLanka was unnecessary. It is now clear that this was only a carrot to the cash starved SriLankan Board...they will earn a bit of revenue with India's tour and be happy to release their players for the 2009 IPL. This offers the IPL more commercial benefits. If really needed, the SriLankan tour could have been limited to 3 ODIs.

    Again BCCI's commercial interest overrides cricket priorities.

  • SUNDOS on January 15, 2009, 10:45 GMT

    Arriving early,and not being able to fit in a two day match,just to be able to get used to conditions seems strange.With the race to be NO1 in the world amongst teams really hotting up,India could be caught out in Kiwi conditions.

  • Arvind_Saharan on January 15, 2009, 11:05 GMT

    Welcome to New Zealand Indian team. It wont be easy for Team India to perform here due to the nature of pitches in NZ. Most of the stadiums use drop in pitches, which can go any way. A team can get out for only 100 runs or can go to make more then 350. Its really hard to predict. Most of the current players have probably got no idea of NZ pitches & conditions. Seniors players who failed to deliver in last tour would probably play here for the last time. Its the last chance for fab 3 to get some runs & leave on a high note. Good luck to Team India.

  • Batsnumbereleven on January 15, 2009, 11:29 GMT

    An extra mid-week slog isn't exactly good preparation for a Test series. I'm glad to see the additional Test match but am surprised that Test nations are still eschewing the opportunity to acclimatise properly.

  • Abhithen on January 15, 2009, 11:41 GMT

    Its good for New Zealand but somewhat disappointing for the Indian fans. The reason is Indians have to prolong a cakewalk tour and New Zealand can try something different every match to be on par with India. But that would be only in their dreams. Hence its gonna be a 3-0 in tests and 5-0 in one dayer's by India... but the T20 is unpredictable.... Though India are the favorites...

  • nikhilsg on January 15, 2009, 12:09 GMT

    This is INSANE!! How could the BCCI agree to a full Test/limited over tour in a country like NZ (where the conditions will be about as different from India as they can possibly get) without any warm-up games? India has always found it difficult in NZ - just recall the last tour there... One is very happy to see a full three-Test series, but at what cost?? The BCCI can't be serious about wanting India to become the top Test team, because this surely isn't the way to make it happen. Unfortunately some meaningless ODIs with SL, to pump up revenues now and to ensure SL participation in the IPL, are taking precedence. All one can hope for is that ppl like Dhoni make their displeasure known.

  • sunnimanz on January 15, 2009, 13:54 GMT

    I do welcome the decision for more cricket, I really do. I don't recommend teams continuing this trend of no warm-up matches. I feel the lack of preparation from India in Australia in 2007-08 led to them being thumped in the 1st Test.

    Unfortunately though, with all these new IPL tournaments and chopping and changing of the future tours, this will become a more common theme in the future. Teams will be shortening tours down and cutting out practice matches and weeks off between Tests because the calender has become so hectic.

    One thing you have to give credit for to the BCCI is their calm attitude towards things. After the Pakistan tour was cancelled they have gone about things in the right way by politely approaching New Zealand to extend the tour and also having quick/trouble-free negotiations with Sri Lanka.

    All the more cricket to watch.

  • India_will_win on January 15, 2009, 13:58 GMT

    What a shame! BCCI being the richest board in the world still can't resist the temptation of generating extra revenue from T20 matches. What good it will do to players who will straight away play a test match after these matches. No common sense or vision is shown here by the people who finalised this schedule. It is a win-win situation for New Zealand. Although there is no Fleming, Mcmillan, Twose, Cairns, Astle, Richardson in their side but still its a very good side on home grounds. India no matter how strong they are in both batting and bowling will be without any practice, especially players like Laxman, Dravid who will not play T20. If India beats New Zealand in the first Test it would be a victory of great character.

  • samraj on January 15, 2009, 14:09 GMT

    First of all I do not agree with some of the comments that were posted on this blog. Indian team playing hell lot of cricket in a year, so I don't think not having a tour match is going to make any difference, as ODI's and T20's are fun games and don't mean too much. And by the time they reach test series the most of the team will be well aware about the conditions except the test specialists. But the test specialists are test specialists and they well visited NZ few times. The test specialists can travel to NZ may be couple weeks before than the current schedule and play with local teams to understand the pitches. If IND wants to be No.1 then they need challenges in facing any team and win them. I would have liked 5 teats in NZ to see whether this test side can be No. 1. IND has loads of talent, so don't need to worry too much.