Associates at the World Cup May 1, 2011

Netherlands take chance to press case

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With the chance of Associate nations competing at the next World Cup still hanging in the balance ahead of the ICC's meeting in Hong Kong during June, any chance they get to push their claims through performance is valuable. For Netherlands that opportunity has come in the Clydesdale Bank 40 competition, the English domestic 40-over event, and two victories followed by a one-run defeat in a magnificent chase against Middlesex at Lord's won't have done any harm.

Netherlands finished the recent World Cup without a victory but not without some credit. They pushed England mighty close in their opening game and gave India a few nervous moments. The biggest disappointment for them was defeat against fellow Associate nation, Ireland, but now those two sides are united in a battle to prove they are worthy of at least a chance to appear in 2015. These recent victories against Derbyshire and Yorkshire, and the brilliant effort to maintain an asking rate of nearly ten an over against Middlesex, should add to the squirming at the ICC headquarters in Dubai.

"More than anything it underlines the fact that Associates should be at the World Cup," Peter Borren, the Netherlands captain, told ESPNcricinfo. "I think one of the other captains said he wasn't sure how much we learnt from going to the World Cup, well, I think our performances so far showed we learnt a lot. There's obviously a place for Associate teams at the World Cup. It's very disappointing they even considered going that way and hopefully the decision can be revisited.

"It's a decision made by those who want ten Full Members and we don't get much of a say there," he added. "It's a shame because cricket in Holland, and Associate cricket in general, has certainly developed over the last four years. I think we played pretty well at the World Cup. It's a step backwards, but hopefully our cricket here can keep our name up there."

Clearly they are not facing international quality attacks in the county competition, but to counter that argument Netherlands are also without some key players. Ryan ten Doeschate, who scored two hundreds at the World Cup, is at the IPL (and will rejoin Essex afterwards) while Alexei Kervezee was down the road at Canterbury, guiding Worcestershire to victory over Kent. Tom Cooper, the former Australia Under-19 batsman, is now the mainstay of the order as he showed with his superb 100-ball 126 at Lord's.

To help plug the gap, Netherlands have looked towards Australia and brought in Michael Swart and Shane Mott. This isn't a side overflowing with Dutch talent, but there is some in the form of Tom de Grooth and Pieter Seelaar, the left-arm spinner, and if imports can make the team competitive which in turn encourages youngsters to take up the game in Holland, then it's worthwhile.

"We certainly aren't a one-man band and haven't been for a while," Borren said. "Ryan has played fantastically well for us but we've had plenty of other contributions over the last few years. Hopefully we are developing better cricketers, but it does take playing at the top level, getting more exposure, to encourage those kids to play who will hopefully one day play for Holland."

It is vital they have something to aim towards, and while an expanded World Twenty20 has been offered as a sop, that has the distinct feeling of palming off the Associates. They aren't asking for a rubber-stamped invite to Australia and New Zealand, but just the courtesy and honour of being able to compete for a spot. ESPNcricinfo understands that, unless can prove there is absolutely no room for a qualifying event in the international calendar, the Associates could have a strong legal case for the decision to be overturned.

"We just want the opportunity," Borren said. "We aren't a professional outfit but imagine if we were and if we played more cricket against the top teams. I can only see that cricket would grow and benefit so to me it's puzzling. I don't know what will happen. It's a big blow if we miss the World Cup. It's big for the Full Members, but they play a lot of decent cricket between themselves. For us the World Cup is the pinnacle."

Andrew McGlashan is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Comments have now been closed for this article

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 5, 2011, 0:02 GMT

    @enigma. When I say similarities between NZ and Ire, I don't mean they are EXACTLY the same...as yet. NZ has played MANY more matches at a higher level than Ire. Who is to say Ire wouldn't have achieved just as much if they have been playing just as much cricket/experience and training as NZ. The problem with the qualifiers is that at least 2 teams, who are CLEARLY much better than the rest of the associates will be robbed of the opportunity to gain that much needed experience and exposure. What good would it do for these players to keep playing against the likes of Nambia and Nepal? Look at Ten Doeschate, he has an IPL contract. Look at Eoin Morgan. Kevin O' Brien may follow suit, all due to exposure and a chance to play higher level cricket. The act of "protecting" countries where the game is more secure is cowardly! Expansion is better and can eventually be financially rewarding but it is going to take risks of course.

  • enigma77543 on May 4, 2011, 12:12 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan/Notredam, you just don't get it do you? As I've said on other articles,cricket is very difficult sport to spread & make financially viable due to its length & complexity hence to ensure its future its traditional "fortresses" must be defended & that's why its essential to keep sport solvent that most of the "cricketing nations" must play & without them Associates would be dead anyway, thus most of the "cricketing nations" just being there ensures profit but some are definitely lagging & Asso. also need some incentive & that's why 10-team WC with last 2 spots being up for grabs; still no RATIONAL person'd argue that at least 8 of them are way ahead of Asso. As I've said before, if Asso. believe they're so good, then they shouldn't mind 10-team WC & back themselves to knock-out the last 2 "cricketing nations". Reliance on imports actually shows lack of depth & viability & this season so far, ND have won 2 & lost 2 while SCOT have lost all 4; hardly worth taking any notice.

  • enigma77543 on May 4, 2011, 7:59 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, my point about "long-term" regarding Irl was related to the fact that you think they're viable while I've said they're not because IF THEY WERE, then they'd definitely want to maximise their profit as well as establish their candidacy for Test-cricket by organising their own FC structure but obviously, there's neither enough public-interest nor money in Irl cricket at the moment thus they can't stake a claim for a free berth at WC2015. Comparison between Irl & NZ is somewhat misplaced, NZ reached the SFs of the WC2011 while Irl won just a single game worth taking any notice, even WI beat them relatively comfortably so they're nowhere near these team, not to mention with lack of public-interest & insufficient infrastructure, they can easily go Kenya's way. As I've said, if any Associate thinks they're good enough, they'd prefer 10-team WC & would want to make a strong statement by winning a spot thru the qualifiers; the only reason they'd want 12 or more teams is MONEY.

  • Notredam on May 4, 2011, 5:21 GMT

    @ enigma///so as Bangla...Zimmes...and in today standard ...Kiwis,,and windies..alos have to prove their worth...So also Kiwis and windies are in deep finanical crisis...So they also dnt have much factor contibituing to their particiaption...So ask them also to sit out of the world cup...and world will not care even if Kiwis and windies...bangla..zimmies wont play the world cup..becoz they are hopeless...and they are financial dependent on ICC to give them coffers.

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 3, 2011, 23:37 GMT

    @enigma. How many boards are COMPLETELY financially independent? Let me think...maybe the BCCI, maybe CA...err, can't think of many else. If being completely financially independent is a requirement for WC participation (by the way the hot topic is 2015 and not necessarily "long term") then the most we could dare to hope for is 3-4 teams in WC 2015. Besides every1 can clearly see Ire at least are made of different stuff from Bang (poor country with immature players_) and Zim (poor country with poor governance). As I said b-4, they more resemble the NZ team or even the 1st Zim tea, teams which can punch above their weight by doing the simple things well. Ire are superb in the field already. Pak have been playing forever and are still awful in the field. As for Ned winning 2 games last yr, well that's last yr. This yr. they look better even without Ten Doeschate and Kerverzee, despite relying on imports. If we can get an A team in Wc 2015 to make it interesting, I am for it.

  • enigma77543 on May 3, 2011, 17:19 GMT

    @Notredam, as I've said a million times to you & all your monickers on so many threads like these, it does NOT matter how many people agree with me because vast majority of them don't know about financial & other systems in cricket, my only intention is to offer them a little perspective on it & hopefully rational & objective ones will try to find out more about it to better understand it; further, we don't live in a communist-utopia from your dreams so cricket is a business like any other so it's always going to take financial viability into account while conducting its activities; not to mention, as I've said before, most of the cricket-world wouldn't care whether there were 10 teams or not, or whether Irl were in it or not so comments on articles related to Associates are hardly representative of the cricket-world. Moreover, Pak,Ind,etc don't have anything to prove but ND, SCOT, etc have A LOT to prove & their only route is County-Cricket so them LOSING games there DOES count.

  • Notredam on May 3, 2011, 13:05 GMT

    @ enigma u say in english 40 over cmptioton..irish and scots hvnt been good.Let bangla play in english domestic or even zimmies....and lets have their report card as well..wont be over 30 wins for them surely 2..So scrap this dea...see the present this year dutch and irsih hve done exceptionally well..so dnt luk in past...if u look in past kiwis were thrashed by bangla..so let them also remove test status..the real test or irish players come out when they DON the national cap and not some domestic cmtion for some money making process...so get it right..even pakistan..or indians playing in english 20-- or 40 over will not take it that seriusly..

  • Notredam on May 3, 2011, 12:57 GMT

    @enigma77543.. Well buddy..U say that Irish and scots have ben hopeles.and lost 10 of 12 matches..Letss forget the past..see what irish have done in 2011 owrld cup...As if u see the past..bangla..have lost 98% of matches between 2000-05..its now only that they lose..85% of matches...so improvement is coming in.As for my posts not taken seriusly..No one is backing u mate in ur suggestions for 10 team world cup..Have either 6 team world cup..or 12 team wc...Kiwis..bangla..windies..windies..all are hopelesee..so fasten ur seat belt and let kiwis be out of the world cup..if u r able to digest it..as simple as it

  • Meety on May 3, 2011, 0:59 GMT

    @redneck - same goes for Cooper, (as you would know being a Sth Ozzy).

  • enigma77543 on May 2, 2011, 17:11 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, did they say they're COMPLETELY financially independent? Haven't they said like they generate "most" of the revenue, the term "most" leaves ample room for movement but they're DEFINITELY NOT viable at the moment. And who's talking about 2015,I'm talking long-term, they know that if they want to aim for Test-status in the long-run then they must've functioning 4-day FC structure; they'd know that after disappointing results with Zim & Ban, ICC are going to be cautious with Test-status now, & they'll have to have an FC structure & if they rely on County-Cricket then that only reinforces my point about plight of cricket in Irl ATM. I've said nothing ND's structure but they're in worse position than Irl as most players aren't local, at least Irl have that going for them but my point about ND & SCOT was that they played in Eng domestic 1-day comp last year as well & both lost 10 out of 12 games each;APPALLING for so called "international" teams; they need MASSIVE improvement

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 5, 2011, 0:02 GMT

    @enigma. When I say similarities between NZ and Ire, I don't mean they are EXACTLY the same...as yet. NZ has played MANY more matches at a higher level than Ire. Who is to say Ire wouldn't have achieved just as much if they have been playing just as much cricket/experience and training as NZ. The problem with the qualifiers is that at least 2 teams, who are CLEARLY much better than the rest of the associates will be robbed of the opportunity to gain that much needed experience and exposure. What good would it do for these players to keep playing against the likes of Nambia and Nepal? Look at Ten Doeschate, he has an IPL contract. Look at Eoin Morgan. Kevin O' Brien may follow suit, all due to exposure and a chance to play higher level cricket. The act of "protecting" countries where the game is more secure is cowardly! Expansion is better and can eventually be financially rewarding but it is going to take risks of course.

  • enigma77543 on May 4, 2011, 12:12 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan/Notredam, you just don't get it do you? As I've said on other articles,cricket is very difficult sport to spread & make financially viable due to its length & complexity hence to ensure its future its traditional "fortresses" must be defended & that's why its essential to keep sport solvent that most of the "cricketing nations" must play & without them Associates would be dead anyway, thus most of the "cricketing nations" just being there ensures profit but some are definitely lagging & Asso. also need some incentive & that's why 10-team WC with last 2 spots being up for grabs; still no RATIONAL person'd argue that at least 8 of them are way ahead of Asso. As I've said before, if Asso. believe they're so good, then they shouldn't mind 10-team WC & back themselves to knock-out the last 2 "cricketing nations". Reliance on imports actually shows lack of depth & viability & this season so far, ND have won 2 & lost 2 while SCOT have lost all 4; hardly worth taking any notice.

  • enigma77543 on May 4, 2011, 7:59 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, my point about "long-term" regarding Irl was related to the fact that you think they're viable while I've said they're not because IF THEY WERE, then they'd definitely want to maximise their profit as well as establish their candidacy for Test-cricket by organising their own FC structure but obviously, there's neither enough public-interest nor money in Irl cricket at the moment thus they can't stake a claim for a free berth at WC2015. Comparison between Irl & NZ is somewhat misplaced, NZ reached the SFs of the WC2011 while Irl won just a single game worth taking any notice, even WI beat them relatively comfortably so they're nowhere near these team, not to mention with lack of public-interest & insufficient infrastructure, they can easily go Kenya's way. As I've said, if any Associate thinks they're good enough, they'd prefer 10-team WC & would want to make a strong statement by winning a spot thru the qualifiers; the only reason they'd want 12 or more teams is MONEY.

  • Notredam on May 4, 2011, 5:21 GMT

    @ enigma///so as Bangla...Zimmes...and in today standard ...Kiwis,,and windies..alos have to prove their worth...So also Kiwis and windies are in deep finanical crisis...So they also dnt have much factor contibituing to their particiaption...So ask them also to sit out of the world cup...and world will not care even if Kiwis and windies...bangla..zimmies wont play the world cup..becoz they are hopeless...and they are financial dependent on ICC to give them coffers.

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 3, 2011, 23:37 GMT

    @enigma. How many boards are COMPLETELY financially independent? Let me think...maybe the BCCI, maybe CA...err, can't think of many else. If being completely financially independent is a requirement for WC participation (by the way the hot topic is 2015 and not necessarily "long term") then the most we could dare to hope for is 3-4 teams in WC 2015. Besides every1 can clearly see Ire at least are made of different stuff from Bang (poor country with immature players_) and Zim (poor country with poor governance). As I said b-4, they more resemble the NZ team or even the 1st Zim tea, teams which can punch above their weight by doing the simple things well. Ire are superb in the field already. Pak have been playing forever and are still awful in the field. As for Ned winning 2 games last yr, well that's last yr. This yr. they look better even without Ten Doeschate and Kerverzee, despite relying on imports. If we can get an A team in Wc 2015 to make it interesting, I am for it.

  • enigma77543 on May 3, 2011, 17:19 GMT

    @Notredam, as I've said a million times to you & all your monickers on so many threads like these, it does NOT matter how many people agree with me because vast majority of them don't know about financial & other systems in cricket, my only intention is to offer them a little perspective on it & hopefully rational & objective ones will try to find out more about it to better understand it; further, we don't live in a communist-utopia from your dreams so cricket is a business like any other so it's always going to take financial viability into account while conducting its activities; not to mention, as I've said before, most of the cricket-world wouldn't care whether there were 10 teams or not, or whether Irl were in it or not so comments on articles related to Associates are hardly representative of the cricket-world. Moreover, Pak,Ind,etc don't have anything to prove but ND, SCOT, etc have A LOT to prove & their only route is County-Cricket so them LOSING games there DOES count.

  • Notredam on May 3, 2011, 13:05 GMT

    @ enigma u say in english 40 over cmptioton..irish and scots hvnt been good.Let bangla play in english domestic or even zimmies....and lets have their report card as well..wont be over 30 wins for them surely 2..So scrap this dea...see the present this year dutch and irsih hve done exceptionally well..so dnt luk in past...if u look in past kiwis were thrashed by bangla..so let them also remove test status..the real test or irish players come out when they DON the national cap and not some domestic cmtion for some money making process...so get it right..even pakistan..or indians playing in english 20-- or 40 over will not take it that seriusly..

  • Notredam on May 3, 2011, 12:57 GMT

    @enigma77543.. Well buddy..U say that Irish and scots have ben hopeles.and lost 10 of 12 matches..Letss forget the past..see what irish have done in 2011 owrld cup...As if u see the past..bangla..have lost 98% of matches between 2000-05..its now only that they lose..85% of matches...so improvement is coming in.As for my posts not taken seriusly..No one is backing u mate in ur suggestions for 10 team world cup..Have either 6 team world cup..or 12 team wc...Kiwis..bangla..windies..windies..all are hopelesee..so fasten ur seat belt and let kiwis be out of the world cup..if u r able to digest it..as simple as it

  • Meety on May 3, 2011, 0:59 GMT

    @redneck - same goes for Cooper, (as you would know being a Sth Ozzy).

  • enigma77543 on May 2, 2011, 17:11 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, did they say they're COMPLETELY financially independent? Haven't they said like they generate "most" of the revenue, the term "most" leaves ample room for movement but they're DEFINITELY NOT viable at the moment. And who's talking about 2015,I'm talking long-term, they know that if they want to aim for Test-status in the long-run then they must've functioning 4-day FC structure; they'd know that after disappointing results with Zim & Ban, ICC are going to be cautious with Test-status now, & they'll have to have an FC structure & if they rely on County-Cricket then that only reinforces my point about plight of cricket in Irl ATM. I've said nothing ND's structure but they're in worse position than Irl as most players aren't local, at least Irl have that going for them but my point about ND & SCOT was that they played in Eng domestic 1-day comp last year as well & both lost 10 out of 12 games each;APPALLING for so called "international" teams; they need MASSIVE improvement

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 2, 2011, 13:41 GMT

    @enigma. Well it seems like you have seen the annual financial report of the Irish team. I haven't so I would have to go by what the Irish official says considering that the professional journalist put him on the spot. I doubt there are many who would dare lie on an international website to professional journalists who could easily investigate. Secondly, considering that the core players of the Irish team play county, a higher level than any 4 day competition they could knock up by 2015, why would they be quick to spend cash on creating one. The Ned are playing in the county this season, do you think their players would be better off playing in a low standard dutch competition? Youth cricket and village cricket seems substantial for now considering the Irish and Ned unique Eng county involvement. As for the fan base, if millions around the world have grown to enjoy Eoin Morgan's game, why won't his fellow countrymen? There is enough fan base for the Irish to gather a decent U20 side.

  • enigma77543 on May 2, 2011, 12:05 GMT

    @Notredam, you've said that USA, Brazil, China, etc have as strong a fan-base for cricket as that of Ban; do you realise that no rational person is going to take your posts seriously after reading such non-sense? As for "why 10-team WC", I've already explained it in detail to you & every other monicker of yours on other articles so go there & read it again. ------- As for Netherlands & Scotland's county-cricket exploits go, last season they both managed to LOSE 10 of their 12 games each against English DOMESTIC sides that must be EXTREMELY embarrassing for INTERNATIONAL teams; yes, they've had a good start to this season with 2 wins but they'd better not count chickens before they hatch; unless they manage to win ClydesdaleBank40 or at least reach SFs for a few successive years, they'll've made no case for their strength as International ODI teams. Anyways, as I've said before, I still believe that top Associates should get a chance to qualify for the 10-team WC.

  • VivGilchrist on May 2, 2011, 11:33 GMT

    Good to see but, it would be nice too see some actual Dutchmen in the team before we all get excited.

  • diddles on May 2, 2011, 10:28 GMT

    Another fine effort from Netherlands, who are well led by Borren. Yes, this team includes a couple of Aussies, and Borren has a New Zealand background, but their influence on the young Dutch players like Selaar is invaluable and very positive. The latest world cup experience certainly helped them, something Ponting as a mouthpiece for a negative and self serving Cricket Australia Board did not want to acknowledge during that event. Its fortunate, considering the current difficult situation for the associates, that at least Netherlands, Ireland and Scotland have the English County One Day Competition to help improve their standards significantly. Borren's sentiments about the present exclusion of the associates from the next world cup are shared by many cricket supporters, as is confirmed by cricinfo's online poll. To Supporters of the Associates cause, keep up the pressure on the ICC Executive Board and Cricket Australia/NZ...they have made a very short sighted decision.

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 9:24 GMT

    enigma77543 .. U r saying that Bangla and Zimmes dnt deserve test status..U r handling some post in Cricket board..push for ur caes mate...Its for poeple like us who voices are gone unnoticed by ICC>..it nots for guys like u..who have managed to pUsh world cup to 10 team/.//I support 6 team world cup..India,,Australia,,Englad, Safrica..Pakistan..Lanka...REst Kiwis..Irish.,.Bangl..zimmes,,windies are hopeless...Have 2 matches in each 6 teams...and top 2 quyalify for final..Great TRP/./great result and good financial..for boards..

  • enigma77543 on May 2, 2011, 9:11 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, the last post was in response to your post on "it's an irish question and a global one", I'd to post here as that article won't accept comments anymore. Anyways, regarding current article, you're rightly saying that Ban & Zim produce a lot of boring games but how's that problem solved by having EVEN MORE mediocre teams? No, it can't be. That's why I believe ICC should have a 10-team wc BUT have qualifiers for the 9th & 10th spot between top 4 minnows so that Associates get a chance to prove that they're better than Ban & Zim. @Notredam, all you do on all these articles is personally attack me with your many monickers trying to create an illusion that there's a lot of support for 12-team WC but the truth is most of cricket-world wouldn't be bothered whether there were 10 or 12 teams or whether Irl were in it or not; I could easily accuse you of being Irl-board's shill but I won't stoop to that level as I've better arguments about REAL issues that confront cricket today.

  • on May 2, 2011, 8:19 GMT

    There has to be a merit based World Cup but a 10 team competition won't work as Bangladesh and Zimbabwe won't want to risk not qualifying. Therefore a 12 team competition, 2 groups of 6 then semi-finals and final, is the best way to go. I personally can't see much wrong with a 14 team competition as the 2011 tournament, which was a resounding success. If they held the qualifying competition for the top 4 associates and affiliates a year, rather than 2 years, before the WC, and have 2 matches a day (one between 2 test sides and one involving an associate(s) the the whole competition could be done and dusted in a month while still allowing the 105 ICC members their legitimate right to try to qualify for the game's showpiece world event. If the 4 qualifiers were the likely ones of Ireland, Afghanistan and 2 others out of Netherlands, Canada, Kenya, Scotland, UAE and Namibia then the World Cup would still truly be a 'World Cup'.

  • on May 2, 2011, 8:18 GMT

    NZ dont care which format is taken they just dont want to be stuck not knowing and not being able to plan.

  • on May 2, 2011, 8:04 GMT

    @scripted You're sorry but scaring teams such as India and England isn't good enough? who are you to judge? A world cup is not entirely for spectator's enjoyment. There will be upsets like in any sporting world cup but when a country is down you don't just kick them, you help them and encourage. Is this really what the ICC is doing? Just let the game spread to non-Commonwealth nations and quit monopolising the game.

  • enigma77543 on May 2, 2011, 7:09 GMT

    @Neutral_Fan, you're free to believe Irl admins if you deem it fit but Irl-cricket is far from viable right now; if it was then the first thing they'd've done is get 4-day FC structure in place because they know they MUST have it if want to dream bigger dreams but obviously, there's not ENOUGH public-interest or revenue. Come on mate, they aren't threatening to sue ICC for "honour of playing WC", article clearly mentioned 10s of millions at stake; then why blame ICC or other boards for being self-interested? Further,wasn't that thread about almighty Irl? Anyways,I've constantly maintained that Zim & Ban don't deserve Test-status at the moment & that ICC should organise 4-day annual event to TRANSITION promising "ODI-status-teams" into Tests where 3 such teams meet 3 top domestic/A-teams from stronger nations in a 6-team,15-match event where these teams would've a better chance of competing, winning & forming a base for Test-cricket; throwing them at deep end obviously hasn't worked.

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:08 GMT

    Also Irish have not been doing too bad..They have 50% win less record in ODI..Evne in world cup they have done gud wins..Rmember when Australia last time went to UK they ran them so close..Even english were pushed to the limits..I wud say on seam conditions they will push many teams on backfoot..On spin tracks,.,they are not that great..but with exposure the Ice will melt... Ok..what about bangla..just becoz of fan base u gve them...then give to Usa.,, Brazil...China,,,Nigeria,,Egypt...what crap..i fail to understaND..If Nz.Aus are finding faults with 12 team world cup..let them be stripped of that statys too..and let asia again host sucessful worldcup..Its not Bcci who opposed 12 team one..or 14 team one...Its Aus-nz who have done and shown their selfish vested interests again..

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:08 GMT

    @enigma77543 .. Guys i feel this guy Enigma...is handling some post in Nz cricket board..as he is alone here who is opposing 12 team world cup..decide urself..or ignore the comments///every other guy here i see here supporting Irish cause..Otehrwsie why hypocrisy..have only 6 team world cup..top 6.India,Aus,Eng,Saf,Pak.,Slanka.. Have nz and windies ,,bangla out as well..as they 2 are hopeless...along with Irish..and dutch,,,

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:08 GMT

    @enigma77543 .. Iirsh have won just 2 games in last 4-5 yrs against big teams... Can't u see.. with so much limited resources they managed to do that...They wree the best fielding unit of 2011 wc.. Bowlers of names Dockrell,,Mooney..and big man rankin...Even ternt jonhnston a World class all rounder..They can get into big 3-4 teams ...So that gud enuf....What Zimmies have done..in pastt 45 yrs.,.,.did they won anythgng except India replinished squad that faced them in their own backyard...Did bangla did anythng great..yes they won against Kiwsi but on spin tracks..and kiwis wree really hopelesse that time and dried and dusted..Even bangla didn;'t do to great to get TEst status from ICC...DIDi they? Ask urself? Akram Khan defeated some associate to get into elite list..Even Bangla didint have much fanbase...it only spread and grew,, and people started taking...But....how many years it took them..Fan base only will grow.for irish too..It's just not first u hve everything in place..

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:00 GMT

    Also Irish have not been doing too bad..They have 50% win less record in ODI..Evne in world cup they have done gud wins..Rmember when Australia last time went to UK they ran them so close..Even english were pushed to the limits..I wud say on seam conditions they will push many teams on backfoot..On spin tracks,.,they are not that great..but with exposure the Ice will melt... Ok..what about bangla..just becoz of fan base u gve them...then give to Usa.,, Brazil...China,,,Nigeria,,Egypt...what crap..i fail to understaND..If Nz.Aus are finding faults with 12 team world cup..let them be stripped of that statys too..and let asia again host sucessful worldcup..Its not Bcci who opposed 12 team one..or 14 team one...Its Aus-nz who have done and shown their selfish vested interests again..

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 2, 2011, 4:32 GMT

    @scripted. They were several one sided Bangladesh and Zimbabwe matches that I can recall. Maybe we should drop them too?

  • redneck on May 2, 2011, 4:27 GMT

    yes totally agree that the dutch should be given a chance to qualify against bangledesh and zimbabwe, just like the other top associates should. just a couple of points of clarification 1. australia want a 10 team world cup, but never said it should only be the full members. zimbabwe and bangledesh were the ones that got the 10 full members automaticly qualify over the line. and 2. dirk nannes is australian born, he qualified for the dutch through a parent being born there. he has since played for australia so is therefore ineligable for netherlands selction. so stop talking him up as a dutch opening bowler!

  • on May 2, 2011, 4:02 GMT

    @scripted/samedwards - I think thats all the Dutch & Irish & other 90+ associates want, the CHANCE to participate. @scripted - I don't believe the Dutch were boring at all, they showed more fight then Zim & Bang in many instances. I just don't think cricket can claim to be a world sport with a 10-team World Cup. There are many more relevant formats then the 2011 W/C for an exciting 12+ team Cup. @samedwards - Dirk Nannes is an Ozzy - who has dutch heritage. I would of loved to see him play for the Dutch in the W/C but many Ozzys thought he should of been in the Ozzy starting XI. IF Nannes had played for the Dutch I am 99% sure they would of beaten the Poms!

  • on May 2, 2011, 2:27 GMT

    I think the Netherlands would be okay with a qualification process, even if they failed to qualify. It's the automatic exclusion that's a problem.

  • scripted on May 2, 2011, 0:29 GMT

    @samedwards: I just realized you were asking for a process, not automatic inclusion. That certainly is true.

  • scripted on May 2, 2011, 0:04 GMT

    @samedwards: Absolutely, there has to be a process for them and any other team to get into the World Cup. That process has to be initiated now, by giving them a chance to play more matches and changing the World Cup inclusion criterion to include the best ranked teams, which could include Associates who perform. I'm sorry, but 'scaring England and India' is not enough reason for them to be there the next time.

  • samedwards on May 1, 2011, 23:40 GMT

    @scripted,the dutch with boring one-sided matches?They scared England & India,whom they had never played in odis for almost 2 years, without their frontline bowlers like Jonkman twins,Dirk Nannes & Edgar Schiferli.Isnt that enough for them to ask for a process to get into World Cup?

  • scripted on May 1, 2011, 21:17 GMT

    The World Cup was certainly not a shining example for the power of the Associates, other than Ireland's promising show. The Dutch and everyone else made sure we had boring, one-sided matches compared with almost all other matches in the Group stages. I would certainly hope for them getting more international matches, but they don't automatically deserve a World Cup berth. I think Cricket Australia proposed that the top 10 ranked teams get to play the WC2015, which is a much better idea than what we had this World Cup.

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  • scripted on May 1, 2011, 21:17 GMT

    The World Cup was certainly not a shining example for the power of the Associates, other than Ireland's promising show. The Dutch and everyone else made sure we had boring, one-sided matches compared with almost all other matches in the Group stages. I would certainly hope for them getting more international matches, but they don't automatically deserve a World Cup berth. I think Cricket Australia proposed that the top 10 ranked teams get to play the WC2015, which is a much better idea than what we had this World Cup.

  • samedwards on May 1, 2011, 23:40 GMT

    @scripted,the dutch with boring one-sided matches?They scared England & India,whom they had never played in odis for almost 2 years, without their frontline bowlers like Jonkman twins,Dirk Nannes & Edgar Schiferli.Isnt that enough for them to ask for a process to get into World Cup?

  • scripted on May 2, 2011, 0:04 GMT

    @samedwards: Absolutely, there has to be a process for them and any other team to get into the World Cup. That process has to be initiated now, by giving them a chance to play more matches and changing the World Cup inclusion criterion to include the best ranked teams, which could include Associates who perform. I'm sorry, but 'scaring England and India' is not enough reason for them to be there the next time.

  • scripted on May 2, 2011, 0:29 GMT

    @samedwards: I just realized you were asking for a process, not automatic inclusion. That certainly is true.

  • on May 2, 2011, 2:27 GMT

    I think the Netherlands would be okay with a qualification process, even if they failed to qualify. It's the automatic exclusion that's a problem.

  • on May 2, 2011, 4:02 GMT

    @scripted/samedwards - I think thats all the Dutch & Irish & other 90+ associates want, the CHANCE to participate. @scripted - I don't believe the Dutch were boring at all, they showed more fight then Zim & Bang in many instances. I just don't think cricket can claim to be a world sport with a 10-team World Cup. There are many more relevant formats then the 2011 W/C for an exciting 12+ team Cup. @samedwards - Dirk Nannes is an Ozzy - who has dutch heritage. I would of loved to see him play for the Dutch in the W/C but many Ozzys thought he should of been in the Ozzy starting XI. IF Nannes had played for the Dutch I am 99% sure they would of beaten the Poms!

  • redneck on May 2, 2011, 4:27 GMT

    yes totally agree that the dutch should be given a chance to qualify against bangledesh and zimbabwe, just like the other top associates should. just a couple of points of clarification 1. australia want a 10 team world cup, but never said it should only be the full members. zimbabwe and bangledesh were the ones that got the 10 full members automaticly qualify over the line. and 2. dirk nannes is australian born, he qualified for the dutch through a parent being born there. he has since played for australia so is therefore ineligable for netherlands selction. so stop talking him up as a dutch opening bowler!

  • _NEUTRAL_Fan_ on May 2, 2011, 4:32 GMT

    @scripted. They were several one sided Bangladesh and Zimbabwe matches that I can recall. Maybe we should drop them too?

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:00 GMT

    Also Irish have not been doing too bad..They have 50% win less record in ODI..Evne in world cup they have done gud wins..Rmember when Australia last time went to UK they ran them so close..Even english were pushed to the limits..I wud say on seam conditions they will push many teams on backfoot..On spin tracks,.,they are not that great..but with exposure the Ice will melt... Ok..what about bangla..just becoz of fan base u gve them...then give to Usa.,, Brazil...China,,,Nigeria,,Egypt...what crap..i fail to understaND..If Nz.Aus are finding faults with 12 team world cup..let them be stripped of that statys too..and let asia again host sucessful worldcup..Its not Bcci who opposed 12 team one..or 14 team one...Its Aus-nz who have done and shown their selfish vested interests again..

  • Notredam on May 2, 2011, 6:08 GMT

    @enigma77543 .. Iirsh have won just 2 games in last 4-5 yrs against big teams... Can't u see.. with so much limited resources they managed to do that...They wree the best fielding unit of 2011 wc.. Bowlers of names Dockrell,,Mooney..and big man rankin...Even ternt jonhnston a World class all rounder..They can get into big 3-4 teams ...So that gud enuf....What Zimmies have done..in pastt 45 yrs.,.,.did they won anythgng except India replinished squad that faced them in their own backyard...Did bangla did anythng great..yes they won against Kiwsi but on spin tracks..and kiwis wree really hopelesse that time and dried and dusted..Even bangla didn;'t do to great to get TEst status from ICC...DIDi they? Ask urself? Akram Khan defeated some associate to get into elite list..Even Bangla didint have much fanbase...it only spread and grew,, and people started taking...But....how many years it took them..Fan base only will grow.for irish too..It's just not first u hve everything in place..